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Talk About Tulsa => Development & New Businesses => Topic started by: ZYX on February 08, 2011, 03:30:04 pm



Title: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 08, 2011, 03:30:04 pm
I live way out in Bixby, and don't get into downtown or midtown very often. I know there is a lot going in downtown, but I need somebody to fill me in on Cherry Street and the midtown area. Any updates on proposed or under construction projects would be greatly appreciated.

-Thanks.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Breadburner on February 08, 2011, 04:14:57 pm
Someone has been there done that....Didn't work out to well.....


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on February 08, 2011, 06:07:44 pm
There's not much going on outside of a few small projects like newly renovated restaurants and retail stores.  There are the 1432 Trenton lofts going up, and there is a thread for that.  The Blue Rose is an interesting project and there is a thread for that; hopefully that leads to more interest/development in the Riverview area and along the riverfront.  TU has several new buildings going up, I'll have to take some pics next time I'm on campus and post an update.  I'd love to see more development in midtown, hopefully it picks up again.

Some projects I would like to see in midtown:

- Hotel/condo tower where the H&P headquarters used to be at 21st & Utica (this has been rumored since they moved their HQ to uptown and demolished that building)
- Additional development in Utica Square i.e. new stores and restaurants
- Condos at 21st & Main (this project seemingly died with the Recession, would be nice to see something go up on that empty lot)
- Phase II of Utica Place (the townhomes along Utica west of the tower)
- Redevelopment (new apartments/townhomes) in the area north of Veterans Park between Boulder and Boston
- Medical office building at 14th & Utica (again, empty lot..)
- Redevelopment of Lincoln Plaza parking lot at 15th & Peoria into mixed-use
- Construction of the townhouse project at 13th & Cheyenne
- Streetscape projects along 11th between downtown and TU, 6th between downtown and TU (and bike lanes), 15th through Cherry Street, Utica from 11th to 21st, and Peoria in Brookside from 36th to 41st
- Construction of the proposed Crow Creek hike/bike trail from the river to Zink Park through Brookside
- Redevelopment of the rundown apartment complexes overlooking the river around Riverside & Denver
- Redevelopment (new student housing above stores/restaurants) along the TU strip on 11th between Delaware and Harvard
- More academic buildings at TU including a new student union north of the library and a new sciences building on the parking lot at 6th & Delaware
- More urban infill developments in Brookside and Cherry Street
- Redevelopment of the apartments at 31st & Riverside along Crow Creek and development of the Blair property to the north (Kaiser Foundation projects-there's a thread about it somewhere)
- Bomasada development in Brookside - dead?  Again, vacant land in a desirable area


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 08, 2011, 06:56:45 pm
I would really love to see Cherry Street and Brookside become even more dense. I was hoping there would be more loft buildings similar to 1432 being built, but apparently not as of yet. Hopefully soon we will see more projects come on line. Thanks for the very detailed post SXSW.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on February 09, 2011, 03:43:32 pm
Anything about the Phoenix Cafe at 6th and Peoria?

I saw the signs in the window but was wondering if anyone knew the progress.

edit:  Well what the heck?...I thought I saw a sign in a window at that intersection but the location on FB says it will be DT across from the park.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 03:55:17 pm
A new restaurant in downtown...? :)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 03:56:25 pm
Are you talking across from Centennial Green? If so, which building will it be in?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on February 09, 2011, 04:01:33 pm
Are you talking across from Centennial Green? If so, which building will it be in?

Well, their FB states "302 E 6th Street Tulsa" which places it at 6th and Detroit but it mentions Centennial Park which is on Peoria so I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong or someone else has.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 04:06:13 pm
Google maps puts 302 E 6th close to that awful AT&T building. I think something is wrong in this system. I would love to see a new restaurant across from Centennial Green though, if that's where this is at...


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: swake on February 09, 2011, 04:17:33 pm
Well, their FB states "302 E 6th Street Tulsa" which places it at 6th and Detroit but it mentions Centennial Park which is on Peoria so I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong or someone else has.

They must mean Centennial Green, which is downtown on 6th by the CoC building.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 04:18:45 pm
They must mean Centennial Green, which is downtown on 6th by the CoC building.

That's what I was hoping.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: TulsaBound on February 09, 2011, 04:44:29 pm
Well, their FB states "302 E 6th Street Tulsa" which places it at 6th and Detroit but it mentions Centennial Park which is on Peoria so I have a feeling I'm doing something wrong or someone else has.

I think its 1302 E 6th St. (per the Urban Tulsa 12.29.10 - linked below) which puts it at 6th and Peoria as apart of the Pearl District redevelopment.

This discussion had my hopes up that this was one of the first tenants of the Enterprise Building re-purposing (across from the Centennial Green) which would have made it a walkable lunchtime destination.

http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A34592 (http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A34592)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on February 09, 2011, 04:47:12 pm
I think its 1302 E 6th St. (per the Urban Tulsa 12.29.10 - linked below) which puts it at 6th and Peoria as apart of the Pearl District redevelopment.

This discussion had my hopes up that this was one of the first tenants of the Enterprise Building re-purposing (across from the Centennial Green) which would have made it a walkable lunchtime destination.

http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A34592 (http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A34592)

Yeah, sorry.  I saw the window sign on the SE corner of 6th and Peoria.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 06:08:25 pm
I would rather this be in the Pearl District, because I think this area has a ton of potential. Does anyone know if streetscaping has begun in this area, or when it should begin? I would love to see the Pearl District take off. I think this could be a turning point for the area.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on February 09, 2011, 07:42:31 pm
I would rather this be in the Pearl District, because I think this area has a ton of potential. Does anyone know if streetscaping has begun in this area, or when it should begin? I would love to see the Pearl District take off. I think this could be a turning point for the area.

Agree, not sure what the timetable is though.  As cool as it would be to have a canal run down 6th I would rather just see a streetscape so work can get started.  It would be great to see this streetscape extend all the way to Delaware.  2 lanes the whole way with wider sidewalks, street trees, new lighting, and bike lanes in each direction going from TU to downtown (ending at 7th/Houston).  The Pearl district does have a lot of potential but a lot of that hinges upon the flooding/stormwater issues addressed and the streetscape on 6th.  A streetscape on 11th would help the area too.  I have a thread about that in the Urban Planning subforum, and why I think it should be renamed.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 08:08:09 pm
Agree, not sure what the timetable is though.  As cool as it would be to have a canal run down 6th I would rather just see a streetscape so work can get started.  It would be great to see this streetscape extend all the way to Delaware.  2 lanes the whole way with wider sidewalks, street trees, new lighting, and bike lanes in each direction going from TU to downtown (ending at 7th/Houston).  The Pearl district does have a lot of potential but a lot of that hinges upon the flooding/stormwater issues addressed and the streetscape on 6th.  A streetscape on 11th would help the area too.  I have a thread about that in the Urban Planning subforum, and why I think it should be renamed.

Could you give a link to that thread?



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 09:34:55 pm
I don't think I would want to see a canal run down 6th. If there were to be one, there would  need to be a TON of thought put into it. If it turned out like the Bricktown Canal, I would be very disappointed. The Bricktown Canal does not feel like it belongs where it is. It feels very planned to me. I don't want a planned feel in the Pearl District.

With that said, I would much rather see a streetscape done in the Pearl District. It could be started faster, and I think it would feel more genuine. Hopefully, whatever the plans are, we will see construction begin soon. A major streetscaping would be a catalyst for the Pearl District.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on February 09, 2011, 10:36:14 pm
Could you give a link to that thread?

The thread about 11th and TU
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=15765.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=15765.0)

There are lots of threads about the Pearl, here is one about the flood control project
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=12606.0 (http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=12606.0)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 11:09:15 pm
Thanks


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 11:40:19 pm
After reading through those threads, I learned a lot of things about the Pearl District. Namely, that it is in a flood plain. I did not realize that the canal would be functional. Also, if it would turn out like the renderings, I would say that it was tastefully done. With this being an idea for flood mitigation, it is really creative. I say let's get some dozers out there soon!

I still think a major streetscaping should be done along with the canal.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 09, 2011, 11:41:03 pm
P.S. Is there a timetable for this project or is it still up in the air?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on February 10, 2011, 02:25:56 pm
I don't know the status of the Pearl/Elm Creek project, does anyone?  I don't know the status of Blake's project at 6th & Peoria either; he is a TNF poster so maybe he'll stop by and fill us in.  He may know more about the flood control and streetscape projects too.

There are two infill developments currently proposed or underway in the Brookside area.  One is at 32nd & Peoria north of Crow Creek.  I noticed on the minutes from the TMAPC Agenda from Feb 2 for a residential PUD (PUD-782 "Crow Creek Place") at this location.  The zoning is RS-3, which is high density single family residential.  The other is at 41st & Victor (just east of 41st & Utica).  There is a residential development under construction here that appears to be several larger homes.  This is also a green/sustainable development which is awesome.  Here is a video of it http://vimeo.com/10561970 (http://vimeo.com/10561970)

There is also a 4 unit townhome project called "Maple Terrace" proposed at 15th & Norfolk by Cherry Street that was on the TMAPC Agenda .  This is the only article I could find about it http://www.dolanmedia.com/view.cfm?recID=672705 (http://www.dolanmedia.com/view.cfm?recID=672705)

I think we will see a lot more of these types of developments get off the ground this year.  


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 02:34:23 pm
Love these infill projects. My only complaint about them is that they are gated. I think gating gives a false sense of security. It also seems to set certain projects apart from others, not in a good way. Aside from that, I LOVE the townhomes project. They will be great for the Cherry Street area. I espescially like the idea of rooftop patios. Hopefully construction can start soon. Thanks for the updates!


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on February 10, 2011, 02:52:44 pm
Love these infill projects. My only complaint about them is that they are gated. I think gating gives a false sense of security. It also seems to set certain projects apart from others, not in a good way. Aside from that, I LOVE the townhomes project. They will be great for the Cherry Street area. I espescially like the idea of rooftop patios. Hopefully construction can start soon. Thanks for the updates!

Place 41 will be gated but I don't think the Crow Creek or Cherry Street projects will be.  The most significant, large-scale infill projects for midtown will be the redevelopment of the Crow Creek apartments at 31st & Riverside, the development of the Blair property at 28th & Riverside, and the development of the H&P property 21st & St. Louis/Utica.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 04:10:02 pm
Quote
and the development of the H&P property 21st & St. Louis/Utica.

Are there actual plans for this to be developed?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: waterboy on February 10, 2011, 04:11:40 pm
Place 41 will be gated but I don't think the Crow Creek or Cherry Street projects will be.  The most significant, large-scale infill projects for midtown will be the redevelopment of the Crow Creek apartments at 31st & Riverside, the development of the Blair property at 28th & Riverside, and the development of the H&P property 21st & St. Louis/Utica.

I followed that link. The Cherry Street at Norfolk project is indeed planned as a gated development. And brought to you by one of those guys who builds McMansions next to cottages in our area. Since I don't know of any open lots on that corner I have to assume he'll tear out existing properties to do this. I am not too happy to see that we would consider taking part of Maple Ridge to gate off for more stucco'd, out of character buildings. Same 'ol, same 'ol.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 04:25:40 pm
I THINK the lot is on the SE corner of the IDL, right next to other McMansions that were probably built by him. I only think he would have to tear down one building, so it's all good right...

Why can't he just build these on an already empty lot on Cherry Street? There are plenty of them. Otherwise, aside from the gates this seems like a decent project.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on February 10, 2011, 04:33:24 pm
I THINK the lot is on the SE corner of the IDL, right next to other McMansions that were probably built by him. I only think he would have to tear down one building, so it's all good right...

Why can't he just build these on an already empty lot on Cherry Street? There are plenty of them. Otherwise, aside from the gates this seems like a decent project.

I think this is on an empty lot north of 15th on Norfolk, where it dead ends, on the west side of the street.  There is a dentist office in the house adjacent to the south.  They won't have to tear down any houses.  This lot has a great view of downtown and yes it appears to be gated like the neighborhood to the east..

The owner of Landmark Realty and Landmark Construction has a preliminary subdivision plat proposal before the Metropolitan Tulsa Area Planning Commission for separating a 0.42-acre Norfolk Avenue lot into four lots. This would allow for a central driveway into Maple Terrace Townhomes, a gated community of four town houses just north of 15th Street


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 04:37:08 pm
I think we are talking about the same lot, just describing it differently.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on February 10, 2011, 04:48:00 pm
Are there actual plans for this to be developed?

I have heard H&P has a plan for this property and it includes a hotel/condo tower facing the plaza/fountain (adjacent to the parking garage) but I have no idea if that is true or if there are actual plans in place.  That would be great for Utica Square (which the Helmerich's own) and for St. John across the street.  It would also provide midtown with a full-service hotel, and the views of downtown from that location are fantastic.  Go up to the top of the parking garage sometime and check it out.  I would think the area to the west (east of St. Louis, north of 21st and south of 19th) could be developed into nice townhomes or single family homes.  It's just a random park-like, forested area with a Utica Square maintenance barn as it is, right next to one of the densest 'hoods in Tulsa.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 04:51:33 pm
A hotel/condo tower in that area would be awesome. I can imagine that it would have some of the best views in town. I'll see if I can find out about any plans for this site.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on February 10, 2011, 05:32:28 pm
The site in its current form is set up well for a tower.  The main entrance could be off the street that connects the parking garage to 21st facing the plaza/fountain.  The height would depend on how many hotel rooms and condos would be included but likely over 10 stories, possibly 20.  They could build their pool on top of the parking garage and it would have an amazing view to the northwest.  I imagine the style would be similar to the newer buildings in the Utica Square area but maybe more contemporary, something like the Pan Pacific Hotel in Seattle where I stayed on a recent trip there:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/Picture019.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/Picture030.jpg)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 05:39:00 pm
I think a tower in either one of those styles would be fantastic. I espescially like the second one and think it would mix well with the Saint John hospital's architecture. I think something around fifteen stories would work nicely.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: waterboy on February 10, 2011, 07:48:35 pm
I think this is on an empty lot north of 15th on Norfolk, where it dead ends, on the west side of the street.  There is a dentist office in the house adjacent to the south.  They won't have to tear down any houses.  This lot has a great view of downtown and yes it appears to be gated like the neighborhood to the east..

The owner of Landmark Realty and Landmark Construction has a preliminary subdivision plat proposal before the Metropolitan Tulsa Area Planning Commission for separating a 0.42-acre Norfolk Avenue lot into four lots. This would allow for a central driveway into Maple Terrace Townhomes, a gated community of four town houses just north of 15th Street

I just drove by there. Yes, it is north of 15th street. They tore out a perfectly lovely mediterranean home that sat on that lot about a year ago. I should have suspected they would follow up with plopping 4 homes on the same lot. The view of the downtown skyline is spectacular when the sun sets behind it but it also has a great view of a cluster of highway lights to the North of it. That area is already screwed, might as well gate it off so no one else can enjoy that view.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 07:59:50 pm
We need an ordinance to not allow gated neighborhoods in midtown.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on February 10, 2011, 09:44:54 pm
This would be the northwest view from a hotel/condo at 21st & Utica...taken with my iphone from the 6th floor of the parking garage there
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/photo.jpg)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 10, 2011, 10:00:51 pm
That is an AWESOME view. People will pay lots of money to have that out their window. I just hope they're not all outrageously expensive.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on February 11, 2011, 10:26:47 am
We need an ordinance to not allow gated neighborhoods in midtown.

Unless it's to contain crappy dryvit Tuscan nightmares from creeping out into other neighborhoods where they are out of character with the surroundings.

Oooops, too late.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 11, 2011, 09:23:43 pm
Maybe it's just me, but I actually like the faux Tuscan along Utica. I don't like it when it finds it's way into residential areas though...

Edit: along 21st, not Utica.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on February 11, 2011, 10:51:23 pm
I think a tower in either one of those styles would be fantastic. I espescially like the second one and think it would mix well with the Saint John hospital's architecture. I think something around fifteen stories would work nicely.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's because of living in Phoenix for 13 years now, there are too many towers that look like that here, that I don't find them attractive. But I also understand how that area of Tulsa has changed since I was last there. I would lean towards a Frank Loyd Wright style similar to the tower in B'ville (the name escapes me at the moment) based on the architecture of the homes and the buildings in the surrounding area. Or maybe something with a Deco flair to it, and maybe The Artist can help me with this, something in a craftsmen style, something to go more with the Swan Lake area. (The former Mrs. D'back loved that area of town because it is so diverse in the styles of homes.)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 11, 2011, 10:58:31 pm
Don't get me wrong, I think it's because of living in Phoenix for 13 years now, there are too many towers that look like that here, that I don't find them attractive. But I also understand how that area of Tulsa has changed since I was last there. I would lean towards a Frank Loyd Wright style similar to the tower in B'ville (the name escapes me at the moment) based on the architecture of the homes and the buildings in the surrounding area. Or maybe something with a Deco flair to it, and maybe The Artist can help me with this, something in a craftsmen style, something to go more with the Swan Lake area. (The former Mrs. D'back loved that area of town because it is so diverse in the styles of homes.)

Price Tower.

I understand the thought behind wanting more deco, but I don't think that eeeverything needs to be deco. Even though I LOVE deco, I would rather see something more modern. Yes, if there were quite a few buildings like this in Tulsa, then I wouldn't want another just like it, but there aren't. Tulsa really has no buildings in that style. I think we need some more modern architecture here.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on February 11, 2011, 11:24:05 pm
Price Tower.

I understand the thought behind wanting more deco, but I don't think that eeeverything needs to be deco. Even though I LOVE deco, I would rather see something more modern. Yes, if there were quite a few buildings like this in Tulsa, then I wouldn't want another just like it, but there aren't. Tulsa really has no buildings in that style. I think we need some more modern architecture here.

Price Tower. Thank you, I was thinking Philtower and I knew that it wasn't the right name. I actually have a picture of a portrait from Taliesen West of FLW with the drawings of the Price Tower in front of him.

I get the whole "modern/current" style of architecture, and there have been several jokes about it here in AZ, one was from the Sec. of The Interior Earl Butt's I think that "The crop rotation in Arizona is wheat, corn, soy beans, subdivision." and the other is how rapidily the desert was swallowed up by the "March of the red tiled roofs in every direction". I think that something similar to the second photo would work, and I understand that there is not a lot of the style of either in Tulsa, but it's just the old fart 34 year resident of Tulsa from '63 to '98 that my $.02 doesn't think it will fit that area.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 11, 2011, 11:28:26 pm
Point taken. We will just have to agree to disagree.  :) I hope this project materializes though.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on February 11, 2011, 11:44:06 pm
Point taken. We will just have to agree to disagree.  :) I hope this project materializes though.


I agree that we disagree. As I said, just my own $.02, and I do agree that some form of hotel/condo would be great in that location. After watching so much of midtown and areas around downtown die as I was growing up, and now reading about the rebirth of the area excites me. And I have found that when I will be in Tulsa for my 30th HS reunion, and the Drillers are in town that weekend, I am making plans to see a game at the new ballpark while I'm there.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 11, 2011, 11:51:44 pm
Just curious: when was the last time you were in Tulsa?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on February 12, 2011, 12:11:15 am
Just curious: when was the last time you were in Tulsa?

I was last in Tulsa November '04 for my mothers funeral, and I didn't get to see alot of things I wanted to, and now I have time to come back and see things that have changed since. Most of what there is now was in it's infancy then, so quite a bit has changed. Most everything in the Blue Dome, Brady, and Cherry Street wasn't there or had not developed as much. Brookside was still mostly the same from when I left in '98, and downtown was still sleeping. I think there is a lot I will recognize, but it will be a lot different. I really want to see the BOk Center, I think that is the biggest change I'll see, but I think so much will just have a newness to it.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 12, 2011, 12:26:41 am
Boy, do we have something in store for you! Hope you like it...


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on February 12, 2011, 12:39:01 am
Boy, do we have something in store for you! Hope you like it...

Like I said before, watched so much of Tulsa die and disappear, and have read about the changes, I look forward to it. Especially the Mayo Hotel, I was always afraid that it would disappear like so many others. Watched the death of the Camelot and saw video of it being torn down, and whe I saw it, all I could compare it to was having to put down a family pet that just could not make it any more, it was sad to see it go, but it was in such bad shape, that there was no other choice. It's funny, I haven't been back in almost seven years, and so much has changed, and yes I know there's good and bad, but it's kind of like seeing a relative that you haven't seen in years, and you know they've changed and grown, but there will be that familiar feeling again when you see them.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on February 12, 2011, 12:48:44 am
I had completely forgot about the Camelot until you said that. Wow.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on February 12, 2011, 12:58:23 am
I had completely forgot about the Camelot until you said that. Wow.

I graduated from Nathan Hale in 1981, and that is where we had our Prom and our senior breakfast, and my family drove past it countless times going to visit family in Edmond, or when my dad was involved in Pony/Colt Baseball at Reed Park, not to mention the years of cruising Brookside from the time I was 13 until cruising ws shut down in the early 80's. I still have people to this day ask me about Camelot since it had a brief scene in "Tex". I've also been asked about The Outsiders, Rumble Fish, and UHF. It's kind of wierd being asked about movies shot in Tulsa out here.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: RecycleMichael on February 12, 2011, 01:17:18 am
That scene in Tex where he stops and uses the pay phone with the Camalot in the background?

That was a prop pay phone. I went there after I saw the movie and tried to get my picture taken at the exact spot before I realized there was no phone there.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on February 12, 2011, 01:35:00 am
That scene in Tex where he stops and uses the pay phone with the Camalot in the background?

That was a prop pay phone. I went there after I saw the movie and tried to get my picture taken at the exact spot before I realized there was no phone there.

Yes, that's the spot. But I think I may have the tri-fecta on this. As I said about my class of 81 from Hale and Prom, my brother played hockey with Ming Char, whose parents owned the Pagoda restaraunt on that corner of the Bel-Aire Shopping Center, and I drove past the scene while they were shooting it to visit a friend who was managing the Jet Self Serve gas station just north of the scene, and we wondered what the smoke was from, when it turned out to be from the lighting equipment.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: joiei on February 12, 2011, 08:30:19 am
Wait till you drive down Memorial south of the Creek Turnpike.   That change is unbelieveable.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: swake on February 12, 2011, 09:05:40 am
Yes, that's the spot. But I think I may have the tri-fecta on this. As I said about my class of 81 from Hale and Prom, my brother played hockey with Ming Char, whose parents owned the Pagoda restaraunt on that corner of the Bel-Aire Shopping Center, and I drove past the scene while they were shooting it to visit a friend who was managing the Jet Self Serve gas station just north of the scene, and we wondered what the smoke was from, when it turned out to be from the lighting equipment.

The Pagoda was owned by Virginia Torres and her husband. She was the music teacher at Eliot Elementary for years.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on March 02, 2011, 02:01:16 pm
So it's looking like the gas station on the NE corner of 15th and Utica is closed again.

Anyone know it there are plans for the property?

I was also wondering about the old station on 15th West of the BA highway entance.  It looks like the underground tanks were removed.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on March 02, 2011, 02:13:01 pm
So it's looking like the gas station on the NE corner of 15th and Utica is closed again.

Anyone know it there are plans for the property?

I was also wondering about the old station on 15th West of the BA highway entance.  It looks like the underground tanks were removed.

I don't know of any plans but it would make more sense to have the NE corner be a functional gas station and the NW corner part of the proposed medical office complex Bumgarner plans to build just to the north along Utica.  I asked someone who knows Bumgarner once what he had planned for that site and he said mixed-use/office, similar to how Utica Place and Plaza are a mix of offices and residences.  Something similar would be perfect for that NW corner of 15th & Utica with condos/apartments in a building there and a medical office building at the SW corner of 14th & Utica connected by an underground parking garage and courtyard, with townhomes facing Troost to the west.  Bumgarner already developed the SW corner (Stillwater Nat'l Bank) and SE corner (Arvest) of 15th & Utica..


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on March 06, 2011, 06:45:43 pm
For ZYX and SXSW here are some pics of new buildings in the Tempe, Downtown Phoenix and Biltmore areas that fit the description of what you are talking about for the old H&P lot.

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings018.jpg)
Tempe

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings017.jpg)
Tempe

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings016.jpg)
Tempe


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on March 06, 2011, 06:47:43 pm
(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings034.jpg)
Downtown Phoenix

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings026.jpg)
Near downtwon Phoenix

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings024.jpg)
Downton Phoenix


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on March 06, 2011, 06:48:52 pm
And the Biltmore area

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings027.jpg)

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings030.jpg)



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on March 06, 2011, 07:54:55 pm
Yeah, I really like all of those, except for the first one. My favorite was the last one though.

Thanks for posting.

Red one...my bad.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: OSU on March 06, 2011, 08:24:02 pm
And the Biltmore area

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings027.jpg)




I would like to live here.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: TheArtist on March 07, 2011, 07:32:20 am
 Most of those buildings appear to be horrid at street level.  The HP site would be a great area to enhance the shopping/dining draw of Utica Square.  Sure put a hotel and or condos above the first and second floors, but imo, you could greatly enhance the entire area by having more businesses/retail/dining along 21st, with a wide loggia to walk under, lots of windows and various business entrances, outdoor seating with the dining, etc. 

What the building above looks like is not all that important.  Its where the building meets the sidewalk, thats the most important part.  Those are the kinds of pictures I like to see.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on March 07, 2011, 08:30:36 am
Fun with MS Paint...

The pink box is where the hotel/condo tower would be (where the H&P building once stood) facing the existing drive into the parking garage and plaza at 21st & Utica.  The west side of the property would be developed into houses at the same density as the surrounding Swan Lake neighborhood with strict design guidelines i.e. no front-facing garages, similar setbacks/massing/materials, etc.  There would be new houses built on 19th, and where 20th would be extended east, along a new street (Trenton) that would connect 19th to 21st, and larger lots along 21st west of the hotel.  The hotel itself would have a restaurant facing 21st with outdoor seating.

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v316/bg918/utica.jpg)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: OurTulsa on March 07, 2011, 09:09:09 am
Got to step the density down between the larger building site and the existing neighborhood.  I would develop out the street as you provide but line it with townhomes, even facing the neighborhood and the park.  I know some in Swan Lake would balk but...townhomes aren't inherently incompatible across the street from single family homes.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on March 07, 2011, 09:25:41 am
Got to step the density down between the larger building site and the existing neighborhood.  I would develop out the street as you provide but line it with townhomes, even facing the neighborhood and the park.  I know some in Swan Lake would balk but...townhomes aren't inherently incompatible across the street from single family homes.

Maybe townhomes down 19th by the parking garage, or on the east side of "Trenton" adjacent to the parking garage and tower.  Single family homes elsewhere on similar-sized lots as the rest of the neighborhood.  The vocal Swan Lake neighborhood would also not balk as much about a possible 15+ story tower if the rest of the development is mostly houses providing a buffer for the historic district, the boundaries of which are St. Louis and 19th.  


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on March 07, 2011, 12:20:24 pm

What the building above looks like is not all that important.  Its where the building meets the sidewalk, thats the most important part.  Those are the kinds of pictures I like to see.

The third one from Tempe is still under consrtuction, but I believe that it will have business on the ground floors since it is just off of Mill Avenue.

The one from downtown Phoenix has shops and such on the ground floor, and I believe the the first one from the Biltmore area does as well. I will try to get some follow shots of those this weekend.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: rdj on March 07, 2011, 02:42:54 pm
That lot on Norfolk just north of 15th was occupied by a derelict house.  The dentist next door had a lot of trouble with transients due to that home.  I can't speak for the design, but I think having a dense development there is at least a good first step.  It will be interesting to see if they try and tie into the Midland Valley trail that runs to the north of that lot.

Some of the powers that be within the Helmerich family would love to see the lot on 21st be developed into a hotel on the level of a Ritz Carlton.  However, it is my understanding that Mr Helmerich has no desire to do so, thus it won't get done.  He also won't allow for any changes at Utica Square.  He personally supervises the trimming of trees on the property, any of the leasehold improvements and what stores they allow in.  For example, he refused to renew Brooks Brothers lease because he didn't think it was a strong enough tenant.  They also wouldn't go after the Apple Store prior to it locating within Woodland Hills Mall.  That one made my blood boil.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on March 07, 2011, 03:12:15 pm
So does that mean there is no chance of a tower there?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: rdj on March 07, 2011, 03:28:15 pm
So does that mean there is no chance of a tower there?


I don't think as long as Mr Helmerich is alive.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on March 07, 2011, 03:43:23 pm
I don't think as long as Mr Helmerich is alive.

Crap...I wonder why?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: we vs us on March 07, 2011, 03:52:19 pm
That lot on Norfolk just north of 15th was occupied by a derelict house.  The dentist next door had a lot of trouble with transients due to that home.  I can't speak for the design, but I think having a dense development there is at least a good first step.  It will be interesting to see if they try and tie into the Midland Valley trail that runs to the north of that lot.

Some of the powers that be within the Helmerich family would love to see the lot on 21st be developed into a hotel on the level of a Ritz Carlton.  However, it is my understanding that Mr Helmerich has no desire to do so, thus it won't get done.  He also won't allow for any changes at Utica Square.  He personally supervises the trimming of trees on the property, any of the leasehold improvements and what stores they allow in.  For example, he refused to renew Brooks Brothers lease because he didn't think it was a strong enough tenant.  They also wouldn't go after the Apple Store prior to it locating within Woodland Hills Mall.  That one made my blood boil.

Interesting insights.  I've been wondering why Utica doesn't pursue a different mix of tenants.  On a locavore level, a lot of the choices are very good, but from a big business sense . . . well, I've wondered for awhile now why there isn't a Whole Foods in there (and why Petty's is still around); or why there isn't another luxury department store (Bloomingdales, for instance), or why there's a Med X on the property.  


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on March 07, 2011, 08:40:00 pm
I don't think as long as Mr Helmerich is alive.

Walt?  Utica Square is his baby, as he was the one who bought the shopping center in 1964.  Hans (his son and the H&P CEO) would likely be the one to upgrade Utica Square and redevelop the property at 21st & Utica. 


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on March 07, 2011, 10:40:19 pm
Walt has made and shepherded a good fortune, by being hands-on but he's a dinosaur in his thinking.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on March 07, 2011, 11:11:16 pm
By the way, not every CVS looks the same ;)

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings032.jpg)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on March 08, 2011, 09:12:42 am
Interesting insights.  I've been wondering why Utica doesn't pursue a different mix of tenants.  On a locavore level, a lot of the choices are very good, but from a big business sense . . . well, I've wondered for awhile now why there isn't a Whole Foods in there (and why Petty's is still around); or why there isn't another luxury department store (Bloomingdales, for instance), or why there's a Med X on the property.  

I don't see another department store going in as long as Saks and Miss Jackson's are there.  But I could see REI, West Elm and Crate & Barrel, to name a few.  It would take some reconfiguring of the Square though.  We have discussed this before but the "edges" could be better defined, for instance the SE corner of 21st & Utica could be redeveloped to come up to the sidewalk with a mix of stores where the F&M Bank/Bruce G Weber and parking lot are located north of Saks.  The same could be said for the NE corner (where Cache and Valley Nat'l Bank are at 21st & Yorktown) and especially the SE corner which is the last "open" area in the shopping center and would be perfect for a larger-format store like REI and/or Crate & Barrel.

While Utica Square is still very nice and well-maintained, there are some areas where it could improve.  The examples above and things like the crosswalks, where the paint has faded and probably should be replaced by brick pavers, are areas that would make it much better.  It's already one of Tulsa's top attractions and a big reason the neighborhoods around it are the most desirable (and expensive) in the city.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: shaddow on March 08, 2011, 09:48:35 am
Maybe townhomes down 19th by the parking garage, or on the east side of "Trenton" adjacent to the parking garage and tower.  Single family homes elsewhere on similar-sized lots as the rest of the neighborhood.  The vocal Swan Lake neighborhood would also not balk as much about a possible 15+ story tower if the rest of the development is mostly houses providing a buffer for the historic district, the boundaries of which are St. Louis and 19th.  

What do you guys think of the market for townhomes and condos in and around these areas? It seems a lot are still available and many have lease and lease to own options and aren't moving too fast. We just sold our house in Owasso and are looking to move to this area and have been looking at these types of houses as well as traditional midtown houses.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: carltonplace on March 08, 2011, 09:53:34 am
I think the market for townhomes will increase in the next couple of years. Whether you choose one of these or a more traditional home I think you will enjoy the mid-town area.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: shaddow on March 08, 2011, 10:02:56 am
I think the market for townhomes will increase in the next couple of years. Whether you choose one of these or a more traditional home I think you will enjoy the mid-town area.

Yea, we are trying to figure out if the its slow because of the market in general or just Tulsa doesn't have much of a tradition of this type of housing. We are thinking about renting in one of the redone buildings downtown for a year or so and see how things play out if we don't find the right house in time to move out.

When we moved here in the mid 90's we were always in and around this area (midtown, brookside, white city, riverside) and really liked it then tried south tulsa and hated it, then have lived in owasso for much of the 2000's and want to get out of the suburbs and back to downtown/midtown.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on March 08, 2011, 10:15:15 am
Yea, we are trying to figure out if the its slow because of the market in general or just Tulsa doesn't have much of a tradition of this type of housing. We are thinking about renting in one of the redone buildings downtown for a year or so and see how things play out if we don't find the right house in time to move out.

When we moved here in the mid 90's we were always in and around this area (midtown, brookside, white city, riverside) and really liked it then tried south tulsa and hated it, then have lived in owasso for much of the 2000's and want to get out of the suburbs and back to downtown/midtown.

Midtown is more expensive which is one of the reasons you saw a lot of homes for sale as some people couldn't afford their mortgages and the ones who wanted to buy in midtown are priced out.  Neighborhoods like Riverview, Swan Lake, Yorktown and Renaissance have seen fewer homes for sale, and the ones that are sell more quickly because they are midtown but cheaper than Maple Ridge, Terwilleger Heights, Brookside, etc.  With gas prices higher and the Tulsa economy in much better shape I think you will see midtown become a hot market again and more of those larger, more expensive homes selling and also more infill like we saw in 2006-08.  If you can find something in the Riverview or North Maple Ridge neighborhoods that is where I would buy because their value is getting ready to skyrocket sandwiched between the river, downtown and Cherry Street/Utica Square. 


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: shaddow on March 08, 2011, 10:30:09 am
Midtown is more expensive which is one of the reasons you saw a lot of homes for sale as some people couldn't afford their mortgages and the ones who wanted to buy in midtown are priced out.  Neighborhoods like Riverview, Swan Lake, Yorktown and Renaissance have seen fewer homes for sale, and the ones that are sell more quickly because they are midtown but cheaper than Maple Ridge, Terwilleger Heights, Brookside, etc.  With gas prices higher and the Tulsa economy in much better shape I think you will see midtown become a hot market again and more of those larger, more expensive homes selling and also more infill like we saw in 2006-08.  If you can find something in the Riverview or North Maple Ridge neighborhoods that is where I would buy because their value is getting ready to skyrocket sandwiched between the river, downtown and Cherry Street/Utica Square. 

Thanks for the input. We have looked at the condos that are for sale at 19th and Boston with the rooftop decks, they look pretty nice. Just still a bit uneasy about how niche a market the condos will be if we ever have to sell. They kind of almost rule out anyone with kids so young professionals and empty nesters will be the majority of whats left. The condos on Cheery Street are, in comparison, a much more proven commodity, but still we wonder, with so many for sale in Tulsa, how the market for these will play out.



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on March 08, 2011, 10:58:02 am
Thanks for the input. We have looked at the condos that are for sale at 19th and Boston with the rooftop decks, they look pretty nice. Just still a bit uneasy about how niche a market the condos will be if we ever have to sell. They kind of almost rule out anyone with kids so young professionals and empty nesters will be the majority of whats left. The condos on Cheery Street are, in comparison, a much more proven commodity, but still we wonder, with so many for sale in Tulsa, how the market for these will play out.

I wondered the same thing and passed on a townhouse instead buying a bungalow which I have extensively renovated near Cherry Street.  I think the townhouses will start selling, especially the ones off 15th.  I think Tulsan's would be more open to buying something like this either detached or duplex:
(http://static.flickr.com/114/250643593_74c584af9d.jpg)

than this:
(http://www.loftsatcherrystreet.com/image/1.jpg)

But unfortunately there aren't as many examples of the former available...yet.  I'd love to see more street/sidewalk facing rowhomes/townhouses with garages behind (not to the side) like these:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/212/493216322_a1855770d5_z.jpg?zz=1)

Imagine Boulder Ave though Uptown between 18th and 16th with townhomes like these both sides...
(http://www.livablecommunitiescoalition.org/uploads/100016_projectImages/100025.jpg)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on March 08, 2011, 03:10:25 pm
I love that last example you gave. Those are my favorite kind of rowhouse, and I think they would add a NYC/Chicago feel in and around downtown. I would nonhesitantly (I don't know if that's a word)  buy one of those should we ever build any.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dbacks fan on March 08, 2011, 03:42:13 pm
I love that last example you gave. Those are my favorite kind of rowhouse, and I think they would add a NYC/Chicago feel in and around downtown. I would nonhesitantly (I don't know if that's a word)  buy one of those should we ever build any.

16th Boston, on the west side of Boston. Across the street from Don Jurick's place. Also 16th and Baltimore, and 16th and Main


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on March 08, 2011, 04:05:21 pm
I love that last example you gave. Those are my favorite kind of rowhouse, and I think they would add a NYC/Chicago feel in and around downtown. I would nonhesitantly (I don't know if that's a word)  buy one of those should we ever build any.

Same here.  I think many would feel better buying a home like that than one of those lofts where the front door is next to the garage off a shared driveway.  The Uptown-Riverview area is ripe for this type of development.  I'd like to see townhomes and condos surround Veterans Park someday, and redevelopment of the older apartments along Riverside into higher densities.  If there is going to be riverfront "development" in Tulsa, let it be a redevelopment of the existing Riverview area which is basically a more residential extension of downtown.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Red Arrow on March 08, 2011, 06:08:08 pm
By the way, not every CVS looks the same ;)

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/Buildings032.jpg)


Looks like trolley tracks and an overhead wire.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Red Arrow on March 08, 2011, 06:23:32 pm
I wondered the same thing and passed on a townhouse instead buying a bungalow which I have extensively renovated near Cherry Street.  I think the townhouses will start selling, especially the ones off 15th.  I think Tulsan's would be more open to buying something like this either detached or duplex:
(http://static.flickr.com/114/250643593_74c584af9d.jpg)

than this:
(http://www.loftsatcherrystreet.com/image/1.jpg)

But unfortunately there aren't as many examples of the former available...yet.  I'd love to see more street/sidewalk facing rowhomes/townhouses with garages behind (not to the side) like these:
(http://farm1.static.flickr.com/212/493216322_a1855770d5_z.jpg?zz=1)

Imagine Boulder Ave though Uptown between 18th and 16th with townhomes like these both sides...
(http://www.livablecommunitiescoalition.org/uploads/100016_projectImages/100025.jpg)

I don't care for either of the first two.  If I had to live in "the city" either of the bottom two would be acceptable.

One of my cousins lived in Boston in the late 70s in this building.  It was OK.  It needed a bit of renovation to be nice as far as the building was concerned.  It was not too far from the real "Cheers" bar. 

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Commonwealth+Avenue,+Boston,+MA&aq=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=60.288153,129.990234&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Commonwealth+Ave,+Boston,+Massachusetts&ll=42.352789,-71.073808&spn=0.006985,0.015868&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=42.352789,-71.073808&panoid=tTNjaoLVqRlZscUJvYq3SA&cbp=12,115.91,,0,-17.5


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on March 23, 2011, 08:44:19 am
Things I learned yesterday:

1. There is a small grocery store going into an existing structure downtown
2. 1st Street Lofts has been re-designed to accommodate smaller apartments to keep costs down for renters interested in living DT but can't spend a house payment
3. The new hotel at the old city hall will be completed first and then the apartments at the YMCA will start work
4. The reconciliation building by the John Hope Franklin Park will start raising capital this Summer
5. There is a Tulsa Geoscience Center at 517 S Main Street, 3rd Floor; Energy America Education Institute
    - it's cool because it's all hands on for kids to get them interested in science
    - I recommend going by with your 4thish-5thish graders (open to all ages though)
    - they'll have a display at Mayfest at 6th and Main in the KidsZone

That's what I could pop off from memory in a few short minutes.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on March 23, 2011, 08:50:24 am
Things I learned yesterday:

1. There is a small grocery store going into an existing structure downtown
2. 1st Street Lofts has been re-designed to accommodate smaller apartments to keep costs down for renters interested in living DT but can't spend a house payment
3. The new hotel at the old city hall will be completed first and then the apartments at the YMCA will start work
4. The reconciliation building by the John Hope Franklin Park will start raising capital this Summer
5. There is a Tulsa Geoscience Center at 517 S Main Street, 3rd Floor; Energy America Education Institute
    - it's cool because it's all hands on for kids to get them interested in science
    - I recommend going by with your 4thish-5thish graders (open to all ages though)
    - they'll have a display at Mayfest at 6th and Main in the KidsZone

That's what I could pop off from memory in a few short minutes.


Major epiphany you had there.  ;D
(http://www.martingordon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/the_more_you_know.jpg)




Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on March 23, 2011, 09:07:30 am
Major epiphany you had there.  ;D
(http://www.martingordon.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/the_more_you_know.jpg)




I apologize if all that has already been discussed.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on March 23, 2011, 09:26:43 am
I apologize if all that has already been discussed.

Yanking yer chain buddy.  That's a lot of good info in one day.  Was there a development forum or something you went to?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: patric on March 23, 2011, 09:35:26 am
By the way, not every CVS looks the same ;)

The footprint for the new one at 21st & Harvard is in place, all the parking is up front.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on March 23, 2011, 09:46:26 am
Yanking yer chain buddy.  That's a lot of good info in one day.  Was there a development forum or something you went to?

Yes.  It was informative and pretty exciting.

Oh, and the developers were all surprised to find out there's a new position at city hall.  A development secretary.  Apparently named Crystal.  I can't remember her last name.  I think she needs to get out there and introduce herself to some of these guys developing since she's the city's liaison to development.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on March 23, 2011, 09:47:04 am
The footprint for the new one at 21st & Harvard is in place, all the parking is up front.

A shame, not a surprise but a shame.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on March 23, 2011, 10:06:51 am
Yes.  It was informative and pretty exciting.

Oh, and the developers were all surprised to find out there's a new position at city hall.  A development secretary.  Apparently named Crystal.  I can't remember her last name.  I think she needs to get out there and introduce herself to some of these guys developing since she's the city's liaison to development.

People being aware of her existing isn't important.  This is the government, what's important is that she's got a spot on the payroll.  Maybe if I wasn't so harshly critical of our politicians at every turn I could have a $125K per year job with no real defined duties or expectations.  Sort of like Bartlet's (sic) old school buddy who is not his communications director.  Luckiest guy since Ringo Starr.  What a gig!



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: carltonplace on March 23, 2011, 10:28:12 am
(http://www.livablecommunitiescoalition.org/uploads/100016_projectImages/100025.jpg)

I'd love to see new brownstones in all of the empty spaces between 12th and 8th, Denver to Cheyenne.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on March 23, 2011, 10:29:54 am
(http://www.livablecommunitiescoalition.org/uploads/100016_projectImages/100025.jpg)

I'd love to see new brownstones in all of the empty spaces between 12th and 8th, Denver to Cheyenne.

Agree.

I wish they had done that throughout the Cherry St. area instead of the incongruous moderns amongst 1920's craftsmen and red brick apartment buildings.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on March 23, 2011, 02:12:46 pm
Any word on which building the grocery will go in?

Also, did you hear which brand the Snyders chose for OCH? I heard that several were up for consideration.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on March 23, 2011, 02:17:39 pm
Any word on which building the grocery will go in?

Also, did you hear which brand the Snyders chose for OCH? I heard that several were up for consideration.

Yeah, they told us but I wasn't told I could elaborate so I feel like I should keep it in for now, sorry.  We were told it would be a store to get a couple of bags of groceries, not 20 bags like a Reasor's et al.  You could get diapers, cold meds, food to make that night and the next day...a city market. (deli, meats, fresh produce, etc.)

I forgot to ask about the hotel brand...dammit.  I need to write these things down.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: ZYX on March 23, 2011, 02:29:32 pm
Oh, well. That's fine. I'm sure there will be an announcement soon.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on March 23, 2011, 02:37:52 pm
Yeah, they told us but I wasn't told I could elaborate so I feel like I should keep it in for now, sorry.  We were told it would be a store to get a couple of bags of groceries, not 20 bags like a Reasor's et al.  You could get diapers, cold meds, food to make that night and the next day...a city market. (deli, meats, fresh produce, etc.)

I forgot to ask about the hotel brand...dammit.  I need to write these things down.

Can I like, buy a case of Sudafed at 2am there?



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: swake on March 23, 2011, 02:46:23 pm
Yeah, they told us but I wasn't told I could elaborate so I feel like I should keep it in for now, sorry.  We were told it would be a store to get a couple of bags of groceries, not 20 bags like a Reasor's et al.  You could get diapers, cold meds, food to make that night and the next day...a city market. (deli, meats, fresh produce, etc.)

I forgot to ask about the hotel brand...dammit.  I need to write these things down.

Wasn't it going to an aLoft, that's what the Synder's said some time ago.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on March 23, 2011, 02:55:57 pm
(http://www.livablecommunitiescoalition.org/uploads/100016_projectImages/100025.jpg)

I'd love to see new brownstones in all of the empty spaces between 12th and 8th, Denver to Cheyenne.

I would so live in something like that.  It only exists in a few areas in Tulsa like the Brownstones at Central Park and along Carson south of 18th.  I also prefer front-facing to the driveway/alley-facing lofts that have been built around Cherry Street and Uptown. 


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: we vs us on March 23, 2011, 06:25:07 pm
Wasn't it going to an aLoft, that's what the Synder's said some time ago.

That's what I hear, too.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on April 26, 2011, 08:58:54 am
Unfortunately, due to the paywall, I don't have access to the article online, but ripped from the pages of Tulsa World:

There's a proposal calling for private money to re-stripe Cherry St. between Quaker & Troost into a two lane street with parallel parking on the south side and angled parking on the north side.  This configuration will increase on street parking spots in that area from about 40 to 109 total.

As well, La Madeleine French Cafe is opening a restaurant on the NW corner of 15th & St. Louis.

There's some major WIN for Cherry St. and a good commitment to making access to it easier for patrons.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: we vs us on July 08, 2011, 08:29:27 am
Camille's will indeed become Mi Cocina, to open sometime this fall:

Mi Cocina to open on Cherry Street this fall

By KYLE ARNOLD World Staff Writer
Published: 7/7/2011  7:39 PM
Last Modified: 7/7/2011  11:30 PM

Upscale Mexican restaurant chain Mi Cocina is gearing up for its new Cherry Street location, the first outside of metro Dallas.

Contractors are working on plans to convert the former Camille’s Sidewalk Cafe at 1342 E. 15th St. into the full-service Tex-Mex restaurant.

Mi Cocina could open by mid-October, said Clay McAfee, director of operations for M Crowd Restaurant Group Inc., the Irving, Texas-based parent company.

“We’ve always wanted to come to Tulsa, and the Cherry Street area is the place that we want to be,” McAfee said.

Mi Cocina serves contemporary Tex-Mex cuisine such as brisket tacos, enchiladas and carne asada.

“We like to think of it as the Neiman Marcus of Mexican food,” McAfee said. “We make everything from scratch and we bring in fresh meat everyday.”

The new restaurant, which was announced in January, will have about 75 employees, including a 50- to 60-member wait staff.

Most Mi Cocina restaurants have large footprints and are decorated with modern furniture and stylings. The contemporary motif will continue with the Cherry Street site, but the site will be smaller than most Texas locations.

The company is spending about $1 million on renovations at the site, according to building permit records.

A patio seating area is planned, along with doors that will open the restaurant to the outside when the weather cooperates, McAfee said.

Mi Cocina has been pursued by developers in several markets, but McAfee said M Crowd chose Tulsa because of the large base of Mi Cocina customers in the area who are familiar with the Dallas versions.

“It’s funny because sometimes you feel like the pretty girl at the dance,” he said. “Everybody seems to want you, but we want to take it slow.”

The company is working on a possible Mi Cocina location in the Houston area, McAfee said.

The company has 23 restaurants, including 15 Mi Cocina restaurants in the Dallas area. The first restaurant opened in 1991.

M Crowd also operates at fast-casual chain known as Taco Diner, and The Mercury restaurant.




Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: carltonplace on July 08, 2011, 09:00:16 am
Thank goodness for a TEX MEX option on Cherry Street besides QDOBA, Chipoltle's, Chimi's! Now if we could only get an italian/pizza place besides Mary's, Tucci's, Andolini's and Hideaway.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: RecycleMichael on July 08, 2011, 09:18:16 am
Thank goodness for a TEX MEX option on Cherry Street besides QDOBA, Chipoltle's, Chimi's! Now if we could only get an italian/pizza place besides Mary's, Tucci's, Andolini's and Hideaway.

I am hoping we could get a Wendy's and a Burger King next to What-a-burger and McDonalds


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on July 08, 2011, 09:23:54 am
I am hoping we could get a Wendy's and a Burger King next to What-a-burger and McDonalds

Wow, talk about a draw.  A tourist Mecca is what that would be.

I'm pleased it's not a cell phone store or a CVS.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Breadburner on July 08, 2011, 09:56:33 am
Phat Phillies......


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Teatownclown on July 10, 2011, 09:01:38 pm
LuLulemon....


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: hello on July 11, 2011, 07:23:15 am
LuLulemon....

Really?! That would be awesome.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on August 22, 2011, 10:27:52 am
Really?! That would be awesome.

Per their Facebook page, Lululemon is opening September 23 in the old Wanda's Cakes space next to Ascent on 15th.  They will also occupy the upstairs portion and will have a rooftop yoga studio.

Lots of construction happening at Mi Cocina but they still appear to be a few months from opening...definitely not August like they originally said.  And all of the tenants where La Madeleine is going in have moved out and it looks like they have started some interior demolition there.  Not sure when they plan on opening.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on October 31, 2011, 09:19:25 am
Pearl District Association FB post from today:

Quote
You're all invited to attend a public groundbreaking ceremony for The Phoenix Cafe tomorrow morning at 10:00 am at 6th and Peoria! Come out and help celebrate new business in The Pearl ~



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: we vs us on October 31, 2011, 09:35:57 am
Huzzah to Phoenix Cafe! 

Back to Cherry Street . . . the three storefronts that have been demo'ed just west of Full Moon, what are those supposed to be? 



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: joiei on October 31, 2011, 10:27:51 am
Huzzah to Phoenix Cafe! 

Back to Cherry Street . . . the three storefronts that have been demo'ed just west of Full Moon, what are those supposed to be? 



That is going to become a http://www.lamadeleine.com/ (http://www.lamadeleine.com/) French Country Cafe.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: we vs us on October 31, 2011, 10:42:54 am
That is going to become a http://www.lamadeleine.com/ (http://www.lamadeleine.com/) French Country Cafe.

Ah yes, I remember hearing about his.  Good stuff.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on November 02, 2011, 10:24:53 am
Pearl District Association FB post from today:

This will be a great thing for this strip in the Pearl.  By the way I love the stringing white lights above the street over 6th at Quincy (near the 6 Art Bar and the Eclipse).

(http://www.tulsaworld.com/articleimages/2011/20111102_BZ-Phoenix1102.jpg)

Their planned offerings include a full bar, which will provide more options for those who aren't necessarily into coffee, as well as the chance to incorporate alcoholic shots into espressos, Ewing said.

He's also working with local coffee roaster Topeca Coffee to create a signature blend for The Phoenix.

Food offerings include fresh-made bagels, produce from local farmers markets, unique cream cheese spreads and other items.

Ewing said The Phoenix will have a fire theme, both figuratively and literally, in addition to warm, inviting colors. The facility will feature a fire pit along one wall, and customers will be able to cook s'mores and dessert fondue over fires at their tables, he said.

But numerous used paperbacks, local books, periodicals and comic books will be part of the decor, as well.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=32&articleid=20111102_32_E1_CUTLIN830080 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=32&articleid=20111102_32_E1_CUTLIN830080)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on November 02, 2011, 10:26:33 am
This also caught my eye from the TW article:

As usual, The Phoenix isn't the only new creation on Ewing's mind. He's finishing up work on Archer Market, a grocery store and dining concept in the Detroit Lofts building at 307 E. Archer St., which should be finished in January.

And he's already got ideas for a five-screen movie theater with a restaurant and bar to be located somewhere downtown.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on November 02, 2011, 10:27:59 am
This also caught my eye from the TW article:

As usual, The Phoenix isn't the only new creation on Ewing's mind. He's finishing up work on Archer Market, a grocery store and dining concept in the Detroit Lofts building at 307 E. Archer St., which should be finished in January.

And he's already got ideas for a five-screen movie theater with a restaurant and bar to be located somewhere downtown.


Squee


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DTowner on December 28, 2011, 01:44:00 pm
Another new business is coming to Cherry St. - a combination wine bar and art class.  Projected to Open March 2012.

For those who may want to mix some merlot with Monet or Pinot Grigio with Picasso, a franchise moving into Tulsa can help them celebrate their love of art and alcohol.

Texas-based "paint and sip" concept Pinot's Palette is preparing for a March opening on Cherry Street, pairing artful wine tasting with social painting.

Pinot's Palette is a simple pairing of beginner art sessions with wine tasting, accomplished at two- to three-hour classes nightly and on weekends.

"We provide the easel, the canvas, the paint and the wine," said owner Lisa Riley. "It's an entertainment genre that is really spreading across the country."

Pinot's Palette will be located at 1621 E. 15th St., between Mongolian restaurant Genghis Grill and women's apparel retailer Rope. The 1,800-square-foot space has direct access to a parking lot behind the building.

Pinot's Palette got its start in Houston in 2009 as a small art studio that allowed customers to bring their own alcohol and food while enjoying amateur art instruction.

The exact concept wouldn't work in Oklahoma, since liquor laws prohibit BYOB establishments, but Riley is building a wine and beer bar while still allowing customers to supply their own food.

"They can order pizza or bring food from home, but we have just about everything else taken care of," she said.

Two Pinot's Palette locations are operating in Houston, with another in Dallas and a fourth in Katy, Texas. The Cherry Street franchise will be the first outside Texas.

Riley was introduced to the concept while she was working with clients in the oil and gas industry in Houston. A Tulsa native who worked for ConocoPhillips, she said she moved back specifically to open the Pinot's Palette franchise.

During each session, two instructors walk students through the process of re-creating artistic masterpieces such as Vincent van Gogh's "Starry Night" or Claude Monet's "San Giorgio Maggiore at Dusk."

"A lot of people think it's not for guys," Riley said, "but women bring their husbands, and they're comparing their trees and brush strokes by the end of the class."

Read more from this Tulsa World article at http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=53&articleid=20111228_53_E1_CUTLIN11920


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Red Arrow on December 28, 2011, 01:49:43 pm
Another new business is coming to Cherry St. - a combination wine bar and art class.  Projected to Open March 2012.

Could be fun if I had any artistic talent.  Too bad I don't.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DTowner on December 28, 2011, 01:53:18 pm
Could be fun if I had any artistic talent.  Too bad I don't.

With enough wine, you might find your hidden talents....


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Red Arrow on December 28, 2011, 02:14:38 pm
With enough wine, you might find your hidden talents....

I don't like getting sick.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on December 28, 2011, 02:16:47 pm
I don't like getting sick.


Eat something with lots of color before hand and aim at the easel.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Red Arrow on December 28, 2011, 02:33:37 pm
Eat something with lots of color before hand and aim at the easel.

Might be good art but I am an unwilling participant.  I expect that those around me wouldn't appreciate it either.

I have long accepted that I have no artistic talent and no musical talent.  The amount of alcohol I am willing to consume does not change my opinion.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on December 28, 2011, 02:39:37 pm
Might be good art but I am an unwilling participant.  I expect that those around me wouldn't appreciate it either.

I have long accepted that I have no artistic talent and no musical talent.  The amount of alcohol I am willing to consume does not change my opinion.

Huh...I become the most amazing human on the planet.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on May 13, 2012, 01:32:13 pm
On Cherry Street the Zoller Design building is vacant and has some significant exterior work going on.  The design studio left some time ago.  Any word on what is going in?  The zoning permit on the window indicates retail.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on February 01, 2013, 02:37:18 pm
http://tulsabusiness.com/business_news/guffeys_report/guffey-s-new-japanese-restaurant-with-retail-spaces-to-provide/article_50f148a4-6b36-11e2-bfb1-0019bb30f31a.html (http://tulsabusiness.com/business_news/guffeys_report/guffey-s-new-japanese-restaurant-with-retail-spaces-to-provide/article_50f148a4-6b36-11e2-bfb1-0019bb30f31a.html)

(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsabusiness.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/ec/7ecfc64c-6b36-11e2-b9d0-0019bb30f31a/5109b06a2cd6a.image.jpg)

Quote
The new Zanmai Japanese restaurant at 1402 S. Peoria Ave. is still under construction with no word on its completion date.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Breadburner on February 01, 2013, 04:40:51 pm
Decent sized development coming to Brookside....


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: TheArtist on February 02, 2013, 09:15:24 am
Decent sized development coming to Brookside....

Would you be so kind as to elaborate?  ;D


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Breadburner on February 02, 2013, 06:31:01 pm
Upscale women's sportswear.....


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: hello on February 03, 2013, 05:47:30 pm
Another Lulu?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on February 04, 2013, 11:17:02 am
Between this and the Arts and Humanities building downtown, I guess I just don't get modern architecture.  Why is symetry seemingly frowned upon these days?  I'm glad its there though and hope that it signals an expansion of Cherry Street that direction.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: JCnOwasso on February 04, 2013, 11:20:54 am
Between this and the Arts and Humanities building downtown, I guess I just don't get modern architecture.  Why is symetry seemingly frowned upon these days?  I'm glad its there though and hope that it signals an expansion of Cherry Street that direction.

I will take this over the eye roofs that you see on just about every new major construction in the county (OSU health building, Owasso Y, Owasso Tech for a couple examples)


Title: Re: Any new east end developments?
Post by: Teatownclown on February 04, 2013, 11:33:30 am
I will take this over the eye roofs that you see on just about every new major construction in the county (OSU health building, Owasso Y, Owasso Tech for a couple examples)

in the making....



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on March 12, 2013, 02:38:48 pm
http://tulsabusiness.com/business_news/guffeys_report/guffey-s-new-japanese-restaurant-with-retail-spaces-to-provide/article_50f148a4-6b36-11e2-bfb1-0019bb30f31a.html (http://tulsabusiness.com/business_news/guffeys_report/guffey-s-new-japanese-restaurant-with-retail-spaces-to-provide/article_50f148a4-6b36-11e2-bfb1-0019bb30f31a.html)

(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsabusiness.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/ec/7ecfc64c-6b36-11e2-b9d0-0019bb30f31a/5109b06a2cd6a.image.jpg)


One of the old residential quadplexes across the street from this development was getting a new roof this weekend and looks to have fresh paint on the front.  New or upgraded residential I assume.  There is a similar one next door that could use some upgrading if Cherry Street is going to move in that direction.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: davideinstein on March 12, 2013, 03:01:43 pm
Another Lulu?

Yep.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: carltonplace on March 13, 2013, 09:53:48 am
One of the old residential quadplexes across the street from this development was getting a new roof this weekend and looks to have fresh paint on the front.  New or upgraded residential I assume.  There is a similar one next door that could use some upgrading if Cherry Street is going to move in that direction.

I've heard that the owner of the new Japanese restaurant property also owns the cool old apartments accross the street. The apartment facelift is only to make the patrons of the new construction feel at ease. I bet the life of these apartment buildings is not long term...I'm certain the property owner has other plans for them.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Teatownclown on March 13, 2013, 11:03:46 am
Yes...LuLu Lemon is going into Centre One.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: rdj on March 13, 2013, 12:43:29 pm
I've heard that the owner of the new Japanese restaurant property also owns the cool old apartments accross the street. The apartment facelift is only to make the patrons of the new construction feel at ease. I bet the life of these apartment buildings is not long term...I'm certain the property owner has other plans for them.

Which "cool" old apartments do you mean?  There are three sets of apartment buildings between Palace Cafe & Moore Funeral Home.  All three have different owners.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: davideinstein on March 13, 2013, 03:14:35 pm
Yes...LuLu Lemon is going into Centre One.

Adios to the neat waterfall.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on July 19, 2013, 07:36:01 am
Rumors are that the Snail is going away (future plans for the location are unknown to me) and White Owl is closing and reopening as a seafood place under the McNellies Group.

Anyone able to confirm?

Sauerkraut, this has little to nothing to do with QT.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: davideinstein on July 19, 2013, 09:41:02 am
Rumors are that the Snail is going away (future plans for the location are unknown to me) and White Owl is closing and reopening as a seafood place under the McNellies Group.

Anyone able to confirm?

Sauerkraut, this has little to nothing to do with QT.

Awesome. Both of those places are mediocre.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on July 19, 2013, 12:47:47 pm
I love the Grey Snail for happy hour.  Not so much after that when the popped collar crowd comes out (unless that's changed).  I like White Owl and I'd hate to see it go.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on July 30, 2013, 11:18:09 am
Zanmai at 14th & Peoria opening in August. 
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/post.aspx/Zanmai_restaurant_scheduled_to_open_in_August/21477 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/post.aspx/Zanmai_restaurant_scheduled_to_open_in_August/21477)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: davideinstein on August 12, 2013, 07:06:43 pm
Zanmai at 14th & Peoria opening in August. 
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/post.aspx/Zanmai_restaurant_scheduled_to_open_in_August/21477 (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/post.aspx/Zanmai_restaurant_scheduled_to_open_in_August/21477)

About time! It's been under construction for a while. I think this place will have the best views in town.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on April 30, 2014, 02:35:16 pm
The former White Owl has new signage.  Will be called "The Pint."  I hope they have a good craft beer selection and good bar food.  Anyone know who is behind the new venture?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on May 27, 2014, 01:27:14 pm
An answer to my question from today's Tulsa World.  I'm hoping for good results.  I like the location and like that they have made some changes.  I also like the emphasis on local craft beer.  Lots of good stuff being made locally these days.

 Table Talk: The Pint on Cherry Street to open in a few weeks

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Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:24 am

BY SCOTT CHERRY World Scene Writer | 0 comments

Chef Andres Comacho expects to open The Pint on Cherry Street, 1325 E. 15th St., in a few weeks.

“I would like to get open before the end of June,” he said recently while working on final details for the new restaurant-pub. “We will have a varied menu. I hesitate to say upscale, but it will be good, fresh food. We also will have vegetarian and gluten-free choices.”

He said entrees will range from $8.50 to $22.

Comacho, who came to Tulsa about six years ago from Pennsylvania, has worked at Southern Hills Country Club, Bodean Seafood and Trula at the Mayo Hotel.

Most recently he said he spent a year and a half as banquet chef at Southern Hills.

The Pint will be located in space formerly occupied by White Owl. The space has undergone an extensive remodel.

It has new woodwork throughout, new concrete framing around the entrance, new bathrooms and a new bar top. It still has a long bar in the shotgun space on the ground floor and second-level dining upstairs.

“We have created more dining space upstairs where there used to be a pool table,” Comacho said.

Comacho said The Pint will have a full bar and a large selection of Oklahoma craft beers. He also stressed he wants a family friendly ambience.

“We want everyone to be comfortable,” said Comacho, who was trained at Le Cordon Bleu Institute of Culinary Arts in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

The Pint will be open 11 a.m. to 2 a.m. seven days a week.

Scott Cherry 918-581-8463

scott.cherry@tulsaworld.com


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on May 27, 2014, 02:58:02 pm
Sounds intriguing and worth a try.  I wonder if he will have any public epic melt downs with the health inspectors?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on May 28, 2014, 08:04:55 am
Sounds intriguing and worth a try.  I wonder if he will have any public epic melt downs with the health inspectors?

Is that what happened to White Owl?  I rarely went there but it seemed to do decent business.  I was there once early in its run and there was a bad smell coming from somewhere, like being downwind from a garbage dumpster.  My wife wouldn't let us ever go back.  I always thought it was just a one time thing and we happened to be the wrong table at the wrong time. 


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on May 28, 2014, 08:16:41 am
Is that what happened to White Owl?  I rarely went there but it seemed to do decent business.  I was there once early in its run and there was a bad smell coming from somewhere, like being downwind from a garbage dumpster.  My wife wouldn't let us ever go back.  I always thought it was just a one time thing and we happened to be the wrong table at the wrong time. 

No, I was riffing on the apocalyptic start up at Shotgun Sam’s. 

Far as I know the White Owl was doing great business, we ate there a few times, but nothing compelling that made me a regular.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on May 28, 2014, 08:38:51 am
No, I was riffing on the apocalyptic start up at Shotgun Sam’s. 

Far as I know the White Owl was doing great business, we ate there a few times, but nothing compelling that made me a regular.

I was told it was the building owner's choice to end the business relationship with White Owl.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DTowner on May 28, 2014, 08:54:30 am
I was told it was the building owner's choice to end the business relationship with White Owl.

Wow, a restuarant claiming to have "lost its lease" really lost its lease. 


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: carltonplace on May 28, 2014, 12:22:39 pm
I was told it was the building owner's choice to end the business relationship with White Owl.

I had heard that there was a domestic split reason for its demise.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on May 28, 2014, 12:33:40 pm
I had heard that there was a domestic split reason for its demise.

#dontbangthehiredhelp?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on May 28, 2014, 12:34:38 pm
I had heard that there was a domestic split reason for its demise.

I will not claim my source as irrefutable.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Stanley1 on May 28, 2014, 03:07:31 pm
Thought I heard that White Owl was relocating to Brookside?  Yes?  No?  Maybe?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on May 28, 2014, 04:32:36 pm
Thought I heard that White Owl was relocating to Brookside?  Yes?  No?  Maybe?

I had heard that too.  I honestly can't remember, is there anything where the Ivey was with the rooftop patio?  That could be a good spot.  Or where Garlic Rose used to be. 


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: dioscorides on May 28, 2014, 04:45:31 pm
I was told it was the building owner's choice to end the business relationship with White Owl.
I had heard that there was a domestic split reason for its demise.

I heard both of these.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Breadburner on May 28, 2014, 05:04:04 pm
Townsend is right....Don't piss off the landlord.....


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on June 11, 2014, 09:29:44 am
Anything happening with the Gray Snail space?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on June 11, 2014, 10:01:25 am
Anything happening with the Gray Snail space?

When did the Slug Trail go out?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on June 11, 2014, 10:09:16 am
When did the Slug Trail go out?

This past weekend apparently. 

I've been informed it's doing the furniture store thing and re-opening as something called 15 Below.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: swake on June 11, 2014, 10:19:13 am
This past weekend apparently. 

I've been informed it's doing the furniture store thing and re-opening as something called 15 Below.

Wow, the Snail was a sh!tty bar institution in this town. Where will all the DBs go now? I need to know what to avoid now.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on June 11, 2014, 10:20:40 am
The Gray Snail was great for happy hour.  Then the popped collars would start showing up around 8 and it was time to leave.  Something called "15 Below" seems to me to be in furtherance of this crowd but maybe I'm wrong.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on June 11, 2014, 01:15:46 pm
Wow, the Snail was a sh!tty bar institution in this town. Where will all the DBs go now? I need to know what to avoid now.

It's being gutted and going non-smoking per my source.

That seems several years late.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on June 11, 2014, 02:22:27 pm
It's being gutted and going non-smoking per my source.

That seems several years late.

I’d think you’d need to gut it to the bare shell to get the smoke smell out of that place.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on June 11, 2014, 02:57:39 pm
I’d think you’d need to gut it to the bare shell to get the smoke smell out of that place.

And the elevator shaft, stairwell, parts of Jason's Deli, Acrobatant, rip out the bushes and sprinkle moth balls on the patio.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 11, 2014, 04:00:49 pm
I’d think you’d need to gut it to the bare shell to get the smoke smell out of that place.


So, it was a casino, too, huh...?




Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on June 27, 2014, 08:25:17 am
An answer to my question from today's Tulsa World.  I'm hoping for good results.  I like the location and like that they have made some changes.  I also like the emphasis on local craft beer.  Lots of good stuff being made locally these days.

 Table Talk: The Pint on Cherry Street to open in a few weeks

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Posted: Tuesday, May 27, 2014 10:24 am

BY SCOTT CHERRY World Scene Writer | 0 comments

Chef Andres Comacho expects to open The Pint on Cherry Street, 1325 E. 15th St., in a few weeks.

“I would like to get open before the end of June,” he said recently while working on final details for the new restaurant-pub. “We will have a varied menu. I hesitate to say upscale, but it will be good, fresh food. We also will have vegetarian and gluten-free choices.”

He said entrees will range from $8.50 to $22.

Comacho, who came to Tulsa about six years ago from Pennsylvania, has worked at Southern Hills Country Club, Bodean Seafood and Trula at the Mayo Hotel.

Most recently he said he spent a year and a half as banquet chef at Southern Hills.

The Pint will be located in space formerly occupied by White Owl. The space has undergone an extensive remodel.

It has new woodwork throughout, new concrete framing around the entrance, new bathrooms and a new bar top. It still has a long bar in the shotgun space on the ground floor and second-level dining upstairs.

“We have created more dining space upstairs where there used to be a pool table,” Comacho said.

Comacho said The Pint will have a full bar and a large selection of Oklahoma craft beers. He also stressed he wants a family friendly ambience.

“We want everyone to be comfortable,” said Comacho, who was trained at Le Cordon Bleu Institute of Culinary Arts in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

The Pint will be open 11 a.m. to 2 a.m. seven days a week.

Scott Cherry 918-581-8463

scott.cherry@tulsaworld.com


Mitch Neely, who was the original chef at The Alley, has now signed on.  Between Comacho and Neely, the menu should be outstanding.  According to The Pint’s FB page, they will open this coming Monday.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on July 02, 2014, 09:03:58 pm
...And if you liked the White Owl, you will like The Pint. 

Menu did not meet my expectations with the pedigree of the owner and chef.  Pretty unimaginative.  Good food, just nothing that was that memorable.  We had pesto chicken wings as an app, had a slight curry aroma, flavor was rather bland.  The “pesto” was chopped parsley sprinkled over the wings served over some butter and garlic sauce.  MC had fish tacos, well-cooked but no real flavor. The accompanying salsa was unremarkable and disappeared in the taco.  I had fish and chips.  The fillets were ample and cooked just right.  Loved the breading.  The “chips” just common fries and too much at that.  The fish in F & C was similar to what Paddy’s and The Alley both used to serve.  So if I need an F & C fix, I’ll return since there’s not many choices for credible F & C style fish in Tulsa.

I wouldn’t say the menu sucks, it’s just not what I’m looking for when we go out.  I want something creative, memorable, and as MC says “Crave-able”.  The menu has a broad appeal, I simply had higher expectations with Andreas and Mitch’s backgrounds.  Turns out Mitch is just on hand to help get the kitchen up and running.  He’s not there for creative input.

It’s been long enough since I was in the White Owl that the changes were really imperceptible to me, but it’s got a fresh look and should be a great place to grab a craft beer with friends.

The service was outstanding.  For being the third day open, I was really impressed how well their system works.  We saw college age kids, middle agers, young couples with young children, and people our parent’s age.  A very diverse crowd, which I think is a good sign.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 03, 2014, 07:14:58 am
Conan nails it.  For me, the Pint is White Owl 2.  Nice space, normal menu, food was good... But nothing really original.  My expectations were higher.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: davideinstein on July 03, 2014, 08:40:40 am
Same chair set up? I really just look for places like that to watch the game.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on September 22, 2015, 08:11:32 am
Looks like Full Moon isn't opening back up.  They said initially that they were renovating, but I read this morning that they are auctioning off all their equipment.  The pianos were fun and the outdoor patio was neat, but the food was bad and the beer selection was lean.  "World famous" tortilla soup?  More like Pace picante sauce and milk.  It was terrible.  The brunch was about all that was worth eating there.  And the limited beer selection just wasn't keeping up with the times. 

I learned recently that Cherry Street has some of the highest rent in Tulsa so I can't imagine it'll be vacant for too long.  Hopefully something neat and innovative opens up.  Would prefer something local but if its a chain hopefully it's something unique and urban and not a Jimmy Johns or something lame.  The patio alone should have people interested.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Ibanez on September 22, 2015, 08:14:45 am
Looks like Full Moon isn't opening back up.  They said initially that they were renovating, but I read this morning that they are auctioning off all their equipment.  The pianos were fun and the outdoor patio was neat, but the food was bad and the beer selection was lean.  "World famous" tortilla soup?  More like Pace picante sauce and milk.  It was terrible.  The brunch was about all that was worth eating there.  And the limited beer selection just wasn't keeping up with the times. 

I learned recently that Cherry Street has some of the highest rent in Tulsa so I can't imagine it'll be vacant for too long.  Hopefully something neat and innovative opens up.  Would prefer something local but if its a chain hopefully it's something unique and urban and not a Jimmy Johns or something lame.  The patio alone should have people interested.

I have heard recently that these people http://www.sandbburgers.com/ have been sniffing around the Tulsa area for a location. I don't know anything about them, was just told they were looking for "a few spots" in and around Tulsa to expand into. Perhaps the old Full Moon would be a good spot for them.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 22, 2015, 08:41:55 am
S & B looks interesting - there is one close to my central OK traffic pattern....may have to try it out.



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Ibanez on September 22, 2015, 08:48:25 am
S & B looks interesting - there is one close to my central OK traffic pattern....may have to try it out.



I looked them up when I was first told they were looking here. Haven't had a chance to make it to the OKC area since then, but I may be down there this weekend or next and will have to try one out if I stumble across one.

One location that was mentioned to me as a possible Tulsa area location is the abandoned steak house, whatever it was, at 121st and Memorial in Bixby. I drove by there the other day and it appeared work was being done inside the building so maybe there is some truth to what I was told. Time will tell. Since that place, Sante Fe I think, closed there have been constant rumors of something moving in there. It wasn't long ago that it was mentioned as possible spot for another Oklahoma Joe's.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on September 22, 2015, 09:03:27 am
We met a friend at SMOKE last night for dinner and I’m always amazed at how busy Cherry St. is even on a Monday night.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: sgrizzle on September 22, 2015, 09:21:40 am
We met a friend at SMOKE last night for dinner and I’m always amazed at how busy Cherry St. is even on a Monday night.

I had trouble getting a table at smoke on a tuesday


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on September 22, 2015, 10:03:30 am
I have heard recently that these people http://www.sandbburgers.com/ have been sniffing around the Tulsa area for a location. I don't know anything about them, was just told they were looking for "a few spots" in and around Tulsa to expand into. Perhaps the old Full Moon would be a good spot for them.

I went to the one in OKC recently.  It's in the northern suburban area.  It's recent construction but designed to feel industrial.  I can see their style fitting in at the Full Moon location.  The burgers were pretty good and had a broad selection.  The menu very closely resembles Hop Bunz.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on September 22, 2015, 10:12:20 am
S & B looks interesting - there is one close to my central OK traffic pattern....may have to try it out.

ah... I read the url as as Sand Burgers.   Did not sound good


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: hello on September 22, 2015, 01:04:25 pm
I love the S&B in OKC! I think it would do very well in Midtown or Downtown Tulsa.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on September 22, 2015, 03:15:32 pm
I had trouble getting a table at smoke on a tuesday

Not surprising.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on September 22, 2015, 03:15:57 pm
ah... I read the url as as Sand Burgers.   Did not sound good

Better than shitburgers!


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Oil Capital on September 22, 2015, 04:45:36 pm
Looks like Full Moon isn't opening back up.  They said initially that they were renovating, but I read this morning that they are auctioning off all their equipment.  The pianos were fun and the outdoor patio was neat, but the food was bad and the beer selection was lean.  "World famous" tortilla soup?  More like Pace picante sauce and milk.  It was terrible.  The brunch was about all that was worth eating there.  And the limited beer selection just wasn't keeping up with the times. 

I learned recently that Cherry Street has some of the highest rent in Tulsa so I can't imagine it'll be vacant for too long.  Hopefully something neat and innovative opens up.  Would prefer something local but if its a chain hopefully it's something unique and urban and not a Jimmy Johns or something lame.  The patio alone should have people interested.

Auctioning off the equipment is not necessarily incompatible with a renovation.  (FWIW, their website still says it's "temporarily closed for construction")


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on September 22, 2015, 05:13:58 pm
Auctioning off the equipment is not necessarily incompatible with a renovation.  (FWIW, their website still says it's "temporarily closed for construction")

Based on pics from the auction site, better to start over with the equipment. 


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 23, 2015, 08:03:15 am
I love the S&B in OKC! I think it would do very well in Midtown or Downtown Tulsa.


That settles it... I am gonna try to get there later today!



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: rdj on September 23, 2015, 10:01:50 am
...

I learned recently that Cherry Street has some of the highest rent in Tulsa so I can't imagine it'll be vacant for too long.  Hopefully something neat and innovative opens up.  Would prefer something local but if its a chain hopefully it's something unique and urban and not a Jimmy Johns or something lame.  The patio alone should have people interested.

Yes, new construction approaches $40/sq ft triple net in the Cherry Street corridor.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on September 23, 2015, 11:38:52 am
Full Moon is a corner lot.  Is the lot large enough for a QT?

Is there anything keeping QT/Kum & Go from building there?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 23, 2015, 12:22:56 pm
Full Moon is a corner lot.  Is the lot large enough for a QT?

Is there anything keeping QT/Kum & Go from building there?

Lot size would be a problem. Also it doesn't have the traffic count a gas station wants. Finally, why pay a premium for foot traffic when that's not what you are designed for?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on September 23, 2015, 12:38:04 pm
Lot size would be a problem. Also it doesn't have the traffic count a gas station wants. Finally, why pay a premium for foot traffic when that's not what you are designed for?

I thought of it...my mind said "That would suck" and I posted.

What you said makes sense.  I guess it could be a CVS or cell phone/mattress store.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on September 23, 2015, 03:05:42 pm
I thought of it...my mind said "That would suck" and I posted.

What you said makes sense.  I guess it could be a CVS or cell phone/mattress store.

California Nails & T-Mobile was what I was hoping for.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on October 03, 2016, 11:43:54 am
Anyone eat at D'Vina yet?

We walked in around 1:30 on a Sunday afternoon and there was a band setting up outside.

We wandered around the interior of the place for a minute or two looking for employees.  The wife got weirded out and we decided to leave.

The band said "thanks for coming folks" and we walked down to Kilkennys.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on October 11, 2016, 12:35:39 pm
So - Sax on Cherry Street?

(Old Zanmai)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on November 15, 2016, 10:29:03 am
There will be a meeting about 15th Street Rehabilitation between Peoria and Lewis (aka, Cherry Street) next Monday, November 21, 6:00 pm, at Christ the King Church.  There also will be a discussion of multi-modal street plans and public transportation.  Cherry Street could be a real jewel if done correctly.  The sidewalks on Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) are wonky and disconnected based on how it developed over time.  Now that it is without question a major attraction, it needs proper streetscaping with wide sidewalks, trees, and protected cross walks.  A bike lane would be awesome too.  We need a good showing of people to say that they walk and bike consistently in that area to convince them to get it right.  Please consider attending.

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/saxmanosu/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3508_zpsza4sqiz7.jpeg)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: patric on November 15, 2016, 10:40:55 am
There will be a meeting about 15th Street Rehabilitation between Peoria and Lewis (aka, Cherry Street) next Monday, November 21, 6:00 pm, at Christ the King Church.  There also will be a discussion of multi-modal street plans and public transportation.  Cherry Street could be a real jewel if done correctly.  The sidewalks on Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) are wonky and disconnected based on how it developed over time.  Now that it is without question a major attraction, it needs proper streetscaping with wide sidewalks, trees, and protected cross walks.  A bike lane would be awesome too.  We need a good showing of people to say that they walk and bike consistently in that area to convince them to get it right.  Please consider attending.

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e136/saxmanosu/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_3508_zpsza4sqiz7.jpeg)

Although Ill still be at work at that time, Id love to come and convince them to break the cycle of Bad Acorns.

In a nutshell,  Acorn streetlights are decorative street furniture that do a poor job of lighting streets (at least at the brightness we expect today).
If you are really in love with them, make them a decorative intensity (1000 Lumens-ish) and do the actual job of lighting streets with low-glare, shielded streetlights mounted higher up.

...and LED lighting doesnt have to be garish.  Warm White LEDs are a better choice if you want to make an area look more inviting.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on November 15, 2016, 10:45:06 am
Although Ill still be at work at that time, Id love to come and convince them to break the cycle of Bad Acorns.

In a nutshell,  Acorn streetlights are decorative street furniture that do a poor job of lighting streets (at least at the brightness we expect today).
If you are really in love with them, make them a decorative intensity (1000 Lumens-ish) and do the actual job of lighting streets with low-glare, shielded streetlights mounted higher up.

...and LED lighting doesnt have to be garish.  Warm White LEDs are a better choice if you want to make an area look more inviting.

I would be happy to raise this issue on your behalf if you could write up a summary.  I know you have been pressing this for a long time and I agree with you.  I live off of Cherry Street and I want this to be done right.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on November 15, 2016, 10:50:05 am
That's great news that they are starting to plan for a better streetscape.  I agree with you on new sidewalks, trees , crosswalks and lighting but not sure 15th needs a bike lane unless they removed the angled parking (not likely).  


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bamboo World on November 15, 2016, 12:36:20 pm


There will be a meeting about 15th Street Rehabilitation between Peoria and Lewis (aka, Cherry Street) next Monday, November 21, 6:00 pm, at Christ the King Church.  There also will be a discussion of multi-modal street plans and public transportation.  Cherry Street could be a real jewel if done correctly.  The sidewalks on Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) are wonky and disconnected based on how it developed over time.  Now that it is without question a major attraction, it needs proper streetscaping with wide sidewalks, trees, and protected cross walks.  A bike lane would be awesome too.  We need a good showing of people to say that they walk and bike consistently in that area to convince them to get it right.  Please consider attending.


Thanks, I will consider attending the meeting.

But M.B. Cherry Street between Peoria and Utica is already very lively with pedestrian traffic.  I doubt if the City's standard "streetscaping" designs (glaring acorn lights, rough sidewalks and crosswalks which aren't ADA-compliant, huge and hideous traffic signal control boxes) will improve the current situation.  Brookside was worsened by one of these "improvement" projects, and I dread to think what might be in the works for 15th Street.
 


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: patric on November 15, 2016, 01:39:11 pm
I would be happy to raise this issue on your behalf if you could write up a summary.  I know you have been pressing this for a long time and I agree with you.  I live off of Cherry Street and I want this to be done right.

Id be pleased to do that.  Will PM you later, but its apparent others here would like to discuss this as well.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on November 15, 2016, 01:55:18 pm
Brookside was worsened by one of these "improvement" projects

Can you elaborate please?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on November 15, 2016, 02:35:35 pm
I disagree about Brookside.  While it could have been better it still was an improvement.  They need to redo the crosswalks and have more traffic calming barriers though.  The intersection at 36th needs work.  And extend the streetscape south toward 41st.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bamboo World on November 15, 2016, 05:46:58 pm


They need to redo the crosswalks...


Which crosswalks in Brookside need to be redone?  And how do they need to be redone?  What's wrong with them as they are now?


...and have more traffic calming barriers...


What type of traffic calming barriers, and why?  What's wrong with the traffic now?


The intersection at 36th needs work.


What is wrong with the existing intersection at 36th?



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on November 15, 2016, 07:13:59 pm
Bamboo - I think they should have extend the landscaped median in place from 35th to 33rd all the way to 36th.  That way when you're in the crosswalk you can wait in the median and it helps to calm traffic.  The pavers could also be redone or just paint the crosswalks a darker color.  Also adding signs like this could help both on Peoria and also 15th:
(http://d35gqh05wwjv5k.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/i/n/in-street-pedestrian-crosswalk-signs-98308-002-lg.jpg)



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bamboo World on November 15, 2016, 08:24:13 pm


Can you elaborate please?


Poorly designed sidewalks, curb ramps, and crosswalks, such as those here at 41st Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1044266,-95.9756107,3a,90y,46.22h,55.44t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYA3iTTAwY79yoTQR5MVEXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

How is a blind pedestrian supposed to know where the crosswalks are?

Why is the street drainage designed so water collects at the crosswalks?

Why is there a pole in the middle of a curb ramp? 

Why are there push buttons for pedestrians mounted above the curb ramp instead of a more level surface?

Why are there push buttons for pedestrians at all?  (Why should pedestrians be required to request to cross a street?)

Why are rough pavers used on both the curb ramps and in the crosswalks?  (How do rough walking surfaces facilitate the safe passage of pedestrians?  Wheelchairs?  People using canes or walkers or pushing strollers?  Blind or visually impaired pedestrians?  Motor vehicles?)

----

Poorly designed sidewalks, curb ramps, crosswalks, curbs, planting areas, and plantings such as those at 33rd Place (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1147451,-95.9757762,3a,75y,343.64h,75.42t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sZJWUxEU2xOK6o_09qsJLPA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656).

Why are small broadleaf evergreens planted instead of deciduous shade trees along the sidewalk?

What's the purpose of the center median?

What's the purpose of the poorly maintained planting area below the tree?

What's the purpose of the pavement marking paint on the curb ramps? 


------------

M.B. Cherry Street has already gotten some "streetscaping" work, fairly recently.  Here's an example at St. Louis Ave:

July 2011 view (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1406279,-95.9710633,3a,75y,25.09h,77.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sN92Z2IPS3RpHbFarXvxZOA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

Note how the curb ramps are paired, so someone who couldn't handle a curb would be able to directly cross either north-south or east-west.  Note also how the curb ramp concrete at the corner appears newer than the sidewalk concrete.  I imagine it is newer, probably because the curb ramps replaced sidewalks with full height curbs all around the street corners.

Note also that the paired curb ramps have hot pink marking paint on them, indicating that the existing curb ramps are to be replaced with new "Type A" ramps.

By February 2014 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1406155,-95.9710613,3a,75y,25.09h,77.59t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sqVVgHgQD7UZu4h9xUifT-Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656), the curb ramps shown in the July 2011 photo had been replaced.

The problem, as I see it, is that the new curb ramps are worse than what they replaced.  A single curb ramp, pointed toward the middle of an intersection, is not very useful for a blind pedestrian or anyone confined to a wheelchair.  The new curb ramps should have been paired as the old curb ramps were, directing pedestrian into a crosswalk, not into the middle of the intersection -- something like the City of Tulsa's own Standard 790 (http://www.cityoftulsa.org/COTlegacy/documents/NewScans/790.pdf) for curb ramps.

Notice also that sometime between July 2011 and February 2014, a portion of the sidewalk along St. Louis had been removed and replaced with a strip of grass and some street trees.  I don't have a problem with the trees, or with the tables and chairs on the sidewalk, either.  But evidently, someone with the City of Tulsa does have an issue with sidewalk cafés on public sidewalks (http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/moratorium-no-more-downtown-sidewalk-cafes-until-completion-of-walkability/article_9448ed3f-6fa0-58b0-9088-4f39d4b04076.html).

Those curb ramps can't be more than 5 and a half years old.  Do they need replacing already?  If so, why were they installed at all?  Some of the curb ramps in my neighborhood have been replaced several times in recent years, usually with designs which are inferior to what was replaced, and sometimes not compliant with the ADA.  Why? 

M.B. Cherry could be made more accessible to pedestrians with disabilities, but the City has actually made the situation worse in some instances.  The best way to make 15th more pedestrian friendly is to slow the vehicular traffic down and to protect people on the sidewalks.  The Downtown Coordinating Council has hired a walkability expert to study the downtown area, but the principles are the same on 15th, 11th, Peoria, etc.

- Keep traffic lanes narrow (10 feet)
- Allow on-street parking along the curbs
- Plant shade trees along the sidewalk, close to the curb lines

Many walkability improvements can be accomplished with paint, which is relatively inexpensive compared to moving curbs, relocating utilities, installing pavers, or changing grades/drainage structures.



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bamboo World on November 15, 2016, 08:36:50 pm


Bamboo - I think they should have extend the landscaped median in place from 35th to 33rd all the way to 36th.  That way when you're in the crosswalk you can wait in the median and it helps to calm traffic.  The pavers could also be redone or just paint the crosswalks a darker color.  Also adding signs like this could help both on Peoria and also 15th:
(http://d35gqh05wwjv5k.cloudfront.net/media/catalog/product/i/n/in-street-pedestrian-crosswalk-signs-98308-002-lg.jpg)


I understand the median, to a point.  A better protection for pedestrians is curbside parking, however. 

What's wrong with the existing crosswalk pavers?  Why do they need to be redone (again)? 

Crosswalks, when painted, should be a contrasting, highly visible color.  Reflective white would be the best on relatively darker asphalt.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: johrasephoenix on November 15, 2016, 09:04:12 pm
Those pedestrian crossing signs are really helpful.  In Cambridge/Boston they have crosswalks with those signs on a FOUR LANE STATE HIGHWAY every 30 yards or so, including a bunch that aren't even at a stoplight.  You can be on one side of the street, decide you want to cross (not at an intersection), and off you go stopping traffic going both ways.  It's awesome.  They even have bike lanes on MA-2A and lo! nobody dies, traffic goes slow, and pedestrians are milling around everywhere off a friggin' highway.  

Crazy, right?  We can't even slow down Peoria.    They have purposefully de-emphasized car-centric design on MA-2A and when you're driving you know you're second place to pedestrians and bikers.  

Even Brookside isn't that great in the scheme of pedestrian friendly places.  Cars are travelling way too fast and and there are too few crossing points.  In fact, the lack of crossing points is a problem across Tulsa.  As a pedestrian it is extremely dangerous trying to cross Peoria/Lewis/Harvard/Yale/etc and it only gets worse the further south  you go.  



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bamboo World on November 16, 2016, 06:30:33 pm


Those pedestrian crossing signs are really helpful.  In Cambridge/Boston they have crosswalks with those signs on a FOUR LANE STATE HIGHWAY every 30 yards or so, including a bunch that aren't even at a stoplight.  You can be on one side of the street, decide you want to cross (not at an intersection), and off you go stopping traffic going both ways.  It's awesome...


...and handy for making a delivery of gluten-free sorghum malt beer:

1. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3910129,-71.1222827,3a,15y,277.09h,87.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNJruZIjNO5ZDfbpYPeeB7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3910129,-71.1222827,3a,15y,277.09h,87.25t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sNJruZIjNO5ZDfbpYPeeB7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

2. https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3910611,-71.1223851,3a,15y,271.51h,86.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skCRJeUJuWXVfcqGiUtk33g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3910611,-71.1223851,3a,15y,271.51h,86.08t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skCRJeUJuWXVfcqGiUtk33g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

3. Heading for the low spot in the center median: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3911272,-71.1225203,3a,75y,259.78h,87.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBA8G79fJbFOqYeChvX_V0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3911272,-71.1225203,3a,75y,259.78h,87.95t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBA8G79fJbFOqYeChvX_V0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

4. Nearly to the narrow sliver of refuge in the middle of the street: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3911869,-71.1226408,3a,90y,226.42h,89.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4z78n0vk8TYMPHBjW4Vd2Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3911869,-71.1226408,3a,90y,226.42h,89.96t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4z78n0vk8TYMPHBjW4Vd2Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

5. A small hurdle to overcome (but we can almost taste victory at this point):  https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3912425,-71.1227634,3a,39.6y,178.76h,86.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sESTdTOLDiASAwo6ivY1KtA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3912425,-71.1227634,3a,39.6y,178.76h,86.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sESTdTOLDiASAwo6ivY1KtA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)

6. A display of true stamina by crossing an 18-foot-wide lane ON A DIAGONAL !  Eat your heart out, Hillary.  https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3912556,-71.1227902,3a,89.2y,152.29h,88.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPcmCYHTl0-QEVj00Ek9D4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 (https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3912556,-71.1227902,3a,89.2y,152.29h,88.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPcmCYHTl0-QEVj00Ek9D4w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bamboo World on November 16, 2016, 07:47:19 pm


Those pedestrian crossing signs are really helpful.


I agree.  There are a number of pedestrian crossing signs along 15th between Peoria and Utica already:

For eastbound traffic:
1. between Peoria and Quaker
2. at Quaker
3. at Quincy
4. at Rockford
5. at St. Louis
6. at Trenton
7. at Troost

For westbound traffic:
8. at Troost
9. at Trenton
10. at St. Louis
11. at Rockford
12. at Quincy
13. at Quaker

Do you think there need to be more signs?  Different signs (mentioning state law requiring yielding to pedestrians)?

I try to be very cautious when driving along 15th, because pedestrians seem to dart out from behind parked cars in many locations, not only marked crosswalks.  Additional crosswalks with signs might be a good idea at several mid-block locations, especially at the hump between Trenton and Troost.


...We can't even slow down Peoria...


I disagree.  The vehicular traffic on many streets could be slowed down.  Lanes could be narrowed and/or eliminated.  Parking at the curb could be allowed.  Protected bike lanes could be added.  More signs such as the one SXSW posted could be moved to various locations as needed (as they appear to be relatively inexpensive and portable).

And many of these changes could be done with paint.


...Cherry Street could be a real jewel if done correctly.  The sidewalks on Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) are wonky and disconnected based on how it developed over time.  Now that it is without question a major attraction, it needs proper streetscaping with wide sidewalks, trees, and protected cross walks...


I think it depends on what "proper streetscaping" means.  In my opinion, shade trees along the sidewalks would be wonderful.  Acorn lights and rough pavements on sidewalks/crosswalks would be a waste of money.  The sidewalks are little bit disconnected and wonky, but not terribly so.  I walk and drive along 15th often, but I don't bike there much anymore.  To me, the street seems fairly successful as it is.  

The City has missed opportunities to provide good curb ramps and has failed to follow best practices and City of Tulsa standards.  A recent example is the curb ramp on the Noodles & Company corner at Trenton.  The new curb ramp there, less than six months old, has detectable warning pavement, but it's not aligned with the crosswalk.  It would have been easy for the City to build it correctly, but it was done wrong, as is the case over and over and over again in various neighborhoods in Tulsa.

In general, the straighter and wider and more numerous the vehicular traffic lanes, the less safe it is for pedestrians.  The larger the curb radii at corners, the less safe it is for pedestrians.  

What are "protected" crosswalks?



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on November 17, 2016, 10:20:07 am
Notice also that sometime between July 2011 and February 2014, a portion of the sidewalk along St. Louis had been removed and replaced with a strip of grass and some street trees.  I don't have a problem with the trees, or with the tables and chairs on the sidewalk, either.  But evidently, someone with the City of Tulsa does have an issue with sidewalk cafés on public sidewalks (http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/moratorium-no-more-downtown-sidewalk-cafes-until-completion-of-walkability/article_9448ed3f-6fa0-58b0-9088-4f39d4b04076.html).

Wow, you're right. The sidewalk tables and chairs at the La Madeleine disappear between February 2014 and January 2016. That sucks. My family and I had eaten at those tables and it was enjoyable. How can someone have a problem with sidewalk cafes?

Speaking of negative changes just at that intersection of Cherry and St. Louis, why were the bike racks in front of Full Moon Cafe removed between April 2014 and January of 2016? That seems like big step backwards. Was it because someone thought that was a lane and ran over them?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: patric on November 17, 2016, 10:52:44 am
I understand the median, to a point.  A better protection for pedestrians is curbside parking, however.  

Crosswalks, when painted, should be a contrasting, highly visible color.  Reflective white would be the best on relatively darker asphalt.


Throw in some RPMs (Raised Pavement Markers) and you're set.  Since this is Oklahoma, they need to be installed differently than Florida, in that they should be grouted deeper into the pavement to escape snow plows.

(http://www.hyviz.com/2007artwork/warning_stripdaysm.jpg)

RPMs are more durable passive reflective markings than retro-reflective paint, but are usually used in conjunction with paint.
The biggest advantage is they remain visible in rain, where painted markings often disappear.  

St. Louis even has some with internal LEDs along Washington Street.

(https://media.xogrp.com/images/5ffcd2ff-7492-4474-8952-8605b18d03be)

I went thru there a few weeks ago and saw their new warm 3000K LED Streetlights (that we could have instead of the depressing cold blue, if we pressed the distributor a bit).  EDIT: Not the ones pictured above.  The ones I saw are cobra-head style.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on November 17, 2016, 01:41:02 pm
Throw in some RPMs (Raised Pavement Markers) and you're set.  Since this is Oklahoma, they need to be installed differently than Florida, in that they should be grouted deeper into the pavement to escape snow plows.

(http://www.hyviz.com/2007artwork/warning_stripdaysm.jpg)

RMPs are more durable passive reflective markings than retro-reflective paint, but are usually used in conjunction with paint.
The biggest advantage is they remain visible in rain, where painted markings often disappear. 

St. Louis even has some with internal LEDs along Washington Street.

(https://media.xogrp.com/images/5ffcd2ff-7492-4474-8952-8605b18d03be)

I went thru there a few weeks ago and saw their new warm 3000K LED Streetlights (that we could have instead of the depressing cold blue, if we pressed the distributor a bit).

I bet they are slicker than Vaseline on a doorknob for a cyclist when wet though.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: patric on November 17, 2016, 03:53:23 pm
I bet they are slicker than Vaseline on a doorknob for a cyclist when wet though.

Ive honestly never heard anyone raise the question before.

(http://www.colebrothers.com/markers/stickdown6.jpg)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: saintnicster on November 17, 2016, 04:19:50 pm
Ive honestly never heard anyone raise the question before.

(http://www.colebrothers.com/markers/stickdown6.jpg)

Guessing they meant the LEDs embedded in the ground.  I can't remember what the LEDs that are embedded around the CotU are like, but it seems like one of those things the designers could overlook, not having any textures. 


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on November 22, 2016, 09:06:36 am
Speaking of midtown:
As of yesterday there are no orange barrels on Harvard.

Give thanks.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Red Arrow on November 22, 2016, 09:46:13 am
Speaking of midtown:
As of yesterday there are no orange barrels on Harvard.

Give thanks.

It's not midtown but, 61st & Memorial has all lanes open too.



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: rebound on November 22, 2016, 09:59:58 am
It's not midtown but, 61st & Memorial has all lanes open too.

Just in time for those holiday shopping runs to the mall!     (Is there a sarcasm emoji?)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: saintnicster on November 22, 2016, 10:31:38 am
It's not midtown but, 61st & Memorial has all lanes open too.
Hrm, I might be able to give aldi a try now :)

Just in time for those holiday shopping runs to the mall!     (Is there a sarcasm emoji?)

Nevermind


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Red Arrow on November 22, 2016, 10:53:07 am
Just in time for those holiday shopping runs to the mall!     (Is there a sarcasm emoji?)

I'm sure that was the goal.  I avoid 71st east of Memorial as much as possible this time of year.  I still go to High Gravity as required.



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Red Arrow on November 22, 2016, 11:02:43 am
Hrm, I might be able to give aldi a try now :)
Nevermind

Aldi's in Bixby is south of the turnpike.  Take 169.  Or try US 75 and 81st (South of Tulsa Hills)  or in BA.  Take a quarter for the shopping cart.  You get it back when you return the cart.  They also do not bag things so have a container in your vehicle or take a bag or box into the store. They have some good deals.  Some of their produce pre-packaged sizes are too much for me though.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on November 22, 2016, 11:19:49 am
Aldi's in Bixby is south of the turnpike.  Take 169.  Or try US 75 and 81st (South of Tulsa Hills)  or in BA.  Take a quarter for the shopping cart.  You get it back when you return the cart.  They also do not bag things so have a container in your vehicle or take a bag or box into the store. They have some good deals.  Some of their produce pre-packaged sizes are too much for me though.

Funny Aldi story:

My younger daughter has started shopping at the Aldi in the Walk at Tulsa Hills and was going on and on about it over lunch the other day.  I decided I’d give it a try for a few staple items and a large turkey.  She had mentioned the .25 cart deposit and I smooth forgot about it so basically I was walking around with a 22# turkey like a bowling ball bag until the stocker noticed and gave me a box to get the rest of my items into it.

Quote
Quote from: BKDotCom on Today at 09:06:36 am
Speaking of midtown:
As of yesterday there are no orange barrels on Harvard.

Give thanks.

I got my driver’s license in 1981.  31st & Harvard has been one of the roughest intersections in Tulsa since well before I could drive.  This re-make was at least 45 or so years overdue.  I can’t wait until 41st & Harvard is done, both northbound lanes will knock a molar loose.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: cannon_fodder on November 22, 2016, 12:38:46 pm
Plastic, manhole covers, and even some paint is slick on a bike. Particularly if it is wet.  Obviously, if you are going straight it isn't a big concern, but in corners or if a road is turned into a track for some event - it can be a serious issue. Even on the Tour de France you see guys go down when there are think lane lines or other things on the road in corners. One of the leaders at the Olympics did the same thing this year.

But center lane markers on a normal road shouldn't be a big issue for cyclists.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: SXSW on December 12, 2016, 09:37:59 pm
Another Brookside restaurant closing: Sonoma Wine Bar.  I enjoyed Sonoma and will miss it.

Anyone know what will take its place?  There's also the big Hopbunz space and the Ming's space in the Consortium that are also empty.  What's with the unusually high amount of restaurant turnover lately in Brookside?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Breadburner on December 12, 2016, 10:01:24 pm
Another Brookside restaurant closing: Sonoma Wine Bar.  I enjoyed Sonoma and will miss it.

Anyone know what will take its place?  There's also the big Hopbunz space and the Ming's space in the Consortium that are also empty.  What's with the unusually high amount of restaurant turnover lately in Brookside?

They started sucking....


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on December 13, 2016, 08:06:56 am
Sorry, forgot to update about the street design meeting.  Its still two years at least from beginning, he said they have to tear up and rebuild Lewis from 3rd to 21st before 15th gets started, but they have really good ideas and plenty of time for input.  It looks like they want to install dedicated bike lanes from Denver to Peoria and from Utica to Yale.  Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) would be designated as shared lanes for vehicles and bikes.  I don't like that they will still have parking on both sides on Cherry Street proper, back in angle on one side parallel on the other.  I wish they'd ditch the parallel parking and widen the sidewalks.  I also wish they could bury the power line while the place is torn up, but thats a different department.  No details on lighting, I'm guessing that's a later planning stage.

Anyway, the presentation is at the link.  

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Dqzlhdnu6jV3hJMDJDLU56ZWc


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on December 13, 2016, 09:13:41 am
I still want to know what happened to the bike racks here between 2014 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.140592,-95.9707881,3a,75y,346.7h,90.31t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWCeWapfrDTuVcID-m9lReg!2e0!5s20140401T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1) and 2016 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.140613,-95.9708185,3a,75y,16.29h,82.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s8HHRRt3NGJ-cu0k_pk7SmQ!2e0!5s20160101T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1). Did an Owasso cheerleader get 'em?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Red Arrow on December 13, 2016, 09:25:59 am
I still want to know what happened to the bike racks here between 2014 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.140592,-95.9707881,3a,75y,346.7h,90.31t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWCeWapfrDTuVcID-m9lReg!2e0!5s20140401T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1) and 2016 (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.140613,-95.9708185,3a,75y,16.29h,82.12t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s8HHRRt3NGJ-cu0k_pk7SmQ!2e0!5s20160101T000000!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1). Did an Owasso cheerleader get 'em?

There's a tree and a business missing too.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on December 13, 2016, 09:50:28 am
Sorry, forgot to update about the street design meeting.  Its still two years at least from beginning, he said they have to tear up and rebuild Lewis from 3rd to 21st before 15th gets started, but they have really good ideas and plenty of time for input.  It looks like they want to install dedicated bike lanes from Denver to Peoria and from Utica to Yale.  Cherry Street proper (Peoria to Utica) would be designated as shared lanes for vehicles and bikes.  I don't like that they will still have parking on both sides on Cherry Street proper, back in angle on one side parallel on the other.  I wish they'd ditch the parallel parking and widen the sidewalks.  I also wish they could bury the power line while the place is torn up, but thats a different department.  No details on lighting, I'm guessing that's a later planning stage.

Anyway, the presentation is at the link.  

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Dqzlhdnu6jV3hJMDJDLU56ZWc

I just posted a rant on the “Bike Lanes For 3rd St.” post regarding how dangerous Cherry St. is in it’s current configuration for cyclists.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bamboo World on December 13, 2016, 06:05:38 pm


I just posted a rant on the “Bike Lanes For 3rd St.” post regarding how dangerous Cherry St. is in its current configuration for cyclists.


I agree that it's dangerous in its current configuration.  The designers' primary ideas are to change the angled parking along the north curb from head-in to back-in and to build new curbs to narrow down the moving traffic lanes (which would be shared lanes marked with bike sharrows).

Do you think these ideas are a waste of money?  What are your suggestions for making the street safer for cyclists?  For pedestrians?

At the public meeting, there was only one person who really spoke up in opposition to the back-in angled parking proposal.  Most seemed to think back-in parking would be safer for cyclists than head-in. 



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bamboo World on December 13, 2016, 06:13:12 pm


Sorry, forgot to update about the street design meeting...

...the presentation is at the link.  

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B4Dqzlhdnu6jV3hJMDJDLU56ZWc


Thanks for posting the link!

The example street plan design shown on pages 63-66 is between St Louis and Trenton.  Roosevelt's is near the center at the top of the plan.  SMOKE's parking lot is near the center at the bottom.



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on December 13, 2016, 08:05:29 pm
I agree that it's dangerous in its current configuration.  The designers' primary ideas are to change the angled parking along the north curb from head-in to back-in and to build new curbs to narrow down the moving traffic lanes (which would be shared lanes marked with bike sharrows).

Do you think these ideas are a waste of money?  What are your suggestions for making the street safer for cyclists?  For pedestrians?

At the public meeting, there was only one person who really spoke up in opposition to the back-in angled parking proposal.  Most seemed to think back-in parking would be safer for cyclists than head-in. 



I answered under the other topic, but yes, angled in back-in parking would be much safer!


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bamboo World on December 14, 2016, 07:50:19 pm


I answered under the other topic, but yes, angled in back-in parking would be much safer!


On the other topic, I was wanting SXSW's opinion about the proposed design of the street (but I saw your response to my reply to SXSW, and I agree with you, Conan).

Here, Conan71, I was asking if you think building new curbs and painting sharrows is a waste of money.

Also, what are your suggestions (other than back-in angled parking) for making the Peoria-to-Utica stretch of 15th safer for cyclists?  For pedestrians?

Perhaps the money spent to relocate curbs and to paint sharrows would be better spent on education and law enforcement to crack down on speeders and inattentive drivers...
 


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: saintnicster on December 19, 2016, 12:54:26 pm
Seems like an appropriate thread.  I just got an email that Genghis Grill is closing their Cherry Street store, directing people to the Bixby one

https://genghisgrill.myguestaccount.com/static/m131/cet10195/view.htm


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: swake on December 19, 2016, 01:49:52 pm
Seems like an appropriate thread.  I just got an email that Genghis Grill is closing their Cherry Street store, directing people to the Bixby one

https://genghisgrill.myguestaccount.com/static/m131/cet10195/view.htm

Good!


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on December 19, 2016, 01:55:17 pm
Seems like an appropriate thread.  I just got an email that Genghis Grill is closing their Cherry Street store, directing people to the Bixby one

https://genghisgrill.myguestaccount.com/static/m131/cet10195/view.htm

Gotta really be craving some Genghis to drive 20 minutes to the burbs

I wonder if the recent robbery (http://www.newson6.com/story/34005195/tulsa-restaurant-workers-robbed-at-gunpoint) had anything to do with it


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: rebound on December 19, 2016, 02:04:10 pm
I kind of like Genghis Grill, but always felt it was out of place on Cherry Street.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on December 19, 2016, 02:27:51 pm
I kind of like Genghis Grill, but always felt it was out of place on Cherry Street.

Pretty Meh.  I was “one and done” with it.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: swake on December 19, 2016, 02:38:25 pm
Pretty Meh.  I was “one and done” with it.

We only went once. The same with the chain "French" and the "upscale Mexican" places down the street. I think they both are from Dallas and both are pretty Meh.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: rebound on December 19, 2016, 02:53:36 pm
We only went once. The same with the chain "French" and the "upscale Mexican" places down the street. I think they both are from Dallas and both are pretty Meh.

Mi Cocina is good, but overpriced.  (IMHO)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: johrasephoenix on December 19, 2016, 02:58:49 pm
Cherry Street does have a lot of chains, which kind of takes away from the general awesome vibe.  It looks great walking down the sidewalk but the Subway/Genghis Grill etc kills the buzz.

Somehow downtown has avoided that pitfall.  Hopefully they can keep it up.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: swake on December 19, 2016, 04:51:38 pm
Mi Cocina is good, but overpriced.  (IMHO)

Meh is probably not fair, it was fine. But twice the price of places that are a lot better than "fine".


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: saintnicster on December 19, 2016, 06:57:52 pm
Cherry Street does have a lot of chains, which kind of takes away from the general awesome vibe.  It looks great walking down the sidewalk but the Subway/Genghis Grill etc kills the buzz.

Somehow downtown has avoided that pitfall.  Hopefully they can keep it up.
There were 3 Subway sandwich restaurants inside the IDL, last I checked.  4 if you stretch to OSU-Tulsa


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 20, 2016, 08:52:44 am
Cherry Street does have a lot of chains, which kind of takes away from the general awesome vibe.  It looks great walking down the sidewalk but the Subway/Genghis Grill etc kills the buzz.

Somehow downtown has avoided that pitfall.  Hopefully they can keep it up.


??

Downtown has chains....do you mean they just haven't overwhelmed the area visually, spiritually, etc??



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on December 20, 2016, 09:00:28 am
There were 3 Subway sandwich restaurants inside the IDL, last I checked.  4 if you stretch to OSU-Tulsa

Chain restaurants in IDL:
2 subways (not 3) 3 subways (forgot the new one by the ballpark)
1 Jimmy Johns
1 Einstein Bros
1 Arbys
1 Dominos
1 Mazzios
1 Napels Flatbread
1 Daily Grill (in Hyatt) (if this counts)
1 Coney Island (if this counts)
1 Spaghetti Warehouse
1 Starbucks (inside the Library)
1 All About Cafe (http://allaboutcha.net/locations/)
1 Rib Crib
1 Oklahoma Joes
1 McNellie's (There are now 4 McNellieses, it's in chain territory)

Almost a chain:  Yokozuna (there are now 3)
Not Chains:   Albert Gs, Mexicali, & Ti Amo (each have 1 other location)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: saintnicster on December 20, 2016, 09:12:24 am
Chains in IDL:
2 subways (not 3)
1 Jimmy Johns
1 Einstein Bros
1 Arbys
1 Dominos
1 Mazzios
1 Daily Grill (in Hyatt) (if this counts)
4th and Main (across from Billy's on the Square), 6th and Boulder (near the Holiday Inn), and GreenArch were what I was thinking.  GreenArch doesn't show up on GMaps, but is still listed on Subway's corporate site. I don't get downtown as often as I'd like these days to double-check this.

After I posted, I remembered about Dominos and Arbys. The point was more that Downtown isn't immune to chains yet, but that they do exist in the background.  With Cherry Street being condensed, the chains are a bit more obvious.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on December 20, 2016, 09:15:09 am
4th and Main (across from Billy's on the Square), 6th and Boulder (near the Holiday Inn), and GreenArch were what I was thinking.  GreenArch doesn't show up on GMaps, but is still listed on Subway's corporate site. I don't get downtown as often as I'd like these days to double-check this.

I quickly realized my mistake and updated my list..   There used to be a "3rd" between city hall & the library..  it's been gone for several years leaving downtown with 2..   until the ballpark location opened.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 20, 2016, 10:38:55 am
And that's ignoring the banks, sports places, hardware stores, and other locations that are actually all chains too...


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Tulsasaurus Rex on December 20, 2016, 02:02:57 pm
Hurts Donut, too, right?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/food/hurts-donut-company-to-open-in-blue-dome-district-this/article_82c4e8f5-7ba0-5f43-ab82-1c53e56910aa.html


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bamboo World on December 20, 2016, 07:38:55 pm


Chain restaurants in IDL:


Not sure if All About Cha is considered to be a restaurant, but many food items are served there...

Starbucks* had a location on the second floor of the Atlas Life Building.  I don't know if it's still there.

* If Starbucks is a restaurant, then All About Cha probably is a restaurant, also.



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on December 20, 2016, 10:06:12 pm
Not sure if All About Cha is considered to be a restaurant...
Starbucks* had a location on the second floor of the Atlas Life Building.  I don't know if it's still there.

Added All About Cafe? to the list (I miss working downtown / keepin up with the changes)
Not an actual Starbucks...  "starbucks served here"


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: swake on December 20, 2016, 11:46:03 pm
Added All About Cafe? to the list (I miss working downtown / keepin up with the changes)
Not an actual Starbucks...  "starbucks served here"

Yeah, I think Starbucks first real location downtown is the one at the Library.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Red Arrow on December 20, 2016, 11:55:14 pm
1 All About Cafe (http://allaboutcha.net/locations/)

I'm afraid they are above my price point.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on December 21, 2016, 09:11:23 am
Yeah, I think Starbucks first real location downtown is the one at the Library.

It's typical in all respects except I heard that the library trust is the franchisee and the profits go towards the library.  It's a pretty cool deal I think.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bamboo World on December 21, 2016, 11:51:03 am


Added All About Cafe? to the list (I miss working downtown / keepin up with the changes)
Not an actual Starbucks...  "starbucks served here"


I work downtown (a block from All About Cha) and live near enough to walk to work and anywhere else downtown.  Even so, it's difficult for me to keep up with the many changes downtown or in Midtown/Cherry Street.


Yeah, I think Starbucks first real location downtown is the one at the Library.


The library might be the second real Starbucks location.  I remember an earlier Starbucks downtown.  It was a few years ago, in the space where Topeca at the Hyatt is now.  As I recall, Starbucks moved out in the spring of 2010, and Topeca opened at the same location in early 2011.
  


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 15, 2017, 03:10:18 pm
The Pint is closing and will reopen as Main Street Tavern (which has locations in BA & Claremore)

Quote
Table Talk: The Pint on Cherry Street closes, acquired by BA restaurant owner
The Pint on Cherry Street, 1325 E. 15th St., has been acquired by the owner of Main Street Tavern in Broken Arrow, according to a post on The Pint’s Facebook page.

The Pint closed Wednesday and posted this message on Facebook:

“Thank you for your patronage over the last 3 years. The Pint on Cherry Street has been acquired by Main Street Tavern which will be opening in a few weeks at our location. Thank you for watching the games with us.”

Main Street Tavern owner Jason Scarpa, who also owns The Rooftop in Broken Arrow and a Main Street Tavern location in Claremore, was not immediately available for comment.

A Pint employee said she understood the site will become another Main Street Tavern location in possibly six to eight weeks.

The Pint opened in 2014, replacing White Owl in that location.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-the-pint-on-cherry-street-closes-acquired-by/article_64c9b4a2-a723-505d-b8e1-074874ed5e9d.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-the-pint-on-cherry-street-closes-acquired-by/article_64c9b4a2-a723-505d-b8e1-074874ed5e9d.html)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 15, 2017, 03:24:20 pm
This article about Cherry Street is interesting including how it reclaimed the name and was rejuvenated starting in the early 80s:
Throwback Tulsa: Cherry Street’s success was a long time coming
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-cherry-street-s-success-was-a-long-time/article_c2a01d08-4070-55e6-906c-f2220d5a813f.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-cherry-street-s-success-was-a-long-time/article_c2a01d08-4070-55e6-906c-f2220d5a813f.html)



Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DTowner on June 15, 2017, 03:26:46 pm
The Pint is closing and will reopen as Main Street Tavern (which has locations in BA & Claremore)

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-the-pint-on-cherry-street-closes-acquired-by/article_64c9b4a2-a723-505d-b8e1-074874ed5e9d.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-the-pint-on-cherry-street-closes-acquired-by/article_64c9b4a2-a723-505d-b8e1-074874ed5e9d.html)

Main Street Tavern on Cherry Street sounds confusing.  This space seems to operate with 2-year expiration date.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 15, 2017, 03:26:59 pm
This article about Cherry Street is interesting including how it reclaimed the name and was rejuvenated starting in the early 80s:
Throwback Tulsa: Cherry Street’s success was a long time coming
http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-cherry-street-s-success-was-a-long-time/article_c2a01d08-4070-55e6-906c-f2220d5a813f.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/news/throwbacktulsa/throwback-tulsa-cherry-street-s-success-was-a-long-time/article_c2a01d08-4070-55e6-906c-f2220d5a813f.html)


Really, Cherry Street was ahead of it's time, especially for Tulsa, with small business owners getting together and "owning" an area which was seedy and becoming dilapidated. It was already pretty nice by the 90's and just keeps getting better.

The 30+ years it took Cherry Street to get where it is makes the Brady District and Blue Dome seem that much more impressive. However, it also puts a bit of perspective on what we can realistically expect in the Pearl and Whittier Districts going forward, especially the neighborhoods which have a lot further to go than the "Main Streets".

A lot of shop owners and entrepreneurs bought in, worked hard to improve the area, and then had to close down anyways as they were pushed out by rising rents they helped to bring about! One way to battle that is with subsidized rents like the Brady District is providing thanks to GKFF and others. That isn't realistic for everywhere though so it will be interesting to see how Whittier, Pearl and Blue Dome do going forward. I hope small local businesses will remain core parts of those areas. Cherry Street and Brookside have already "gentrified" with high rents and high priced housing around them.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 15, 2017, 03:32:02 pm
Main Street Tavern on Cherry Street sounds confusing.  This space seems to operate with 2-year expiration date.

Yes, I thought about that too. Doesn't sound good. I guess they couldn't find anything actually on Main and opening anywhere near the existing "Tavern" on Main Street in the Brady would be exceptionally confusing.

The Pint made it 3 years!  ;D
I believe White Owl was open for 5+ years.
Maybe this one will last 8! Or less than a year, if in decreasing order.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on June 15, 2017, 06:09:12 pm
Yes, I thought about that too. Doesn't sound good. I guess they couldn't find anything actually on Main and opening anywhere near the existing "Tavern" on Main Street in the Brady would be exceptionally confusing.

The Pint made it 3 years!  ;D
I believe White Owl was open for 5+ years.
Maybe this one will last 8! Or less than a year, if in decreasing order.

The Pint was really meh.  We gave it several shots and nothing about it ever resonated with us.  The food was almost okay to okay and craft beer is not a unique offering for bars or pubs these days.  I’ve tried to think what about The Pint or the White Owl is so different from Kilkenny’s in trying to figure out why Kilkenny’s has seemed to work for so long.  Is it the more cozy public house atmosphere of Kilkenny’s which makes it more inviting?  The White Owl/Pint space has always seemed like a cavernous noise machine to me.

Main Street Tavern is nothing special either.  Ubiquitous bar eats and a decent drink and beer menu, but nothing really memorable.

Of course, we are speaking as if The Pint failed.  For all we know, this Main Street Tavern guy simply liked the location and made the owners of The Pint an offer they couldn’t refuse.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on June 16, 2017, 07:23:41 am
The Pint was really meh.  We gave it several shots and nothing about it ever resinated with us.  The food was almost okay to okay and craft beer is not a unique offering for bars or pubs these days.  I’ve tried to think what about The Pint or the White Owl is so different from Kilkenny’s in trying to figure out why Kilkenny’s has seemed to work for so long.  Is it the more cozy public house atmosphere of Kilkenny’s which makes it more inviting?  The White Owl/Pint space has always seemed like a cavernous noise machine to me.

Main Street Tavern is nothing special either.  Ubiquitous bar eats and a decent drink and beer menu, but nothing really memorable.

Of course, we are speaking as if The Pint failed.  For all we know, this Main Street Tavern guy simply liked the location and made the owners of The Pint an offer they couldn’t refuse.

The first time I went to the pint they had awesome huge wings (regular drumsticks covered in wing sauce) but then they stopped doing that. I wish more places would have regular sized drumstick wings. They were really good and a lot less of a mess. Later visits weren't as good. I remember ordering pretzels which claimed to be served with Seikel's Mustard. They came out with plain heinz. I was frustrated and they laughed it off saying, oh no we've never served them with any other mustard! Well, the menu says that and it looked pretty new. Also, the difference between pretzels with Seikels vs pretzels with heinz is pretty drastic. Furthermore, the pretzels were awful and rest of the meal was ok.

Kilkenny's has tons of food option. Probably "too many options" according to some, but it works. Almost everything I've gotten there has been good and I have several "favorites". Plus the pub menu is so cheap. They have a nice small curated selection of beers. The atmosphere is top notch. The old wood and seats and lighting plus all the nooks and crannys all work together to make it feel like a real cozy Irish pub. They've created a real "experience" you can't get anywhere else in Oklahoma.

I liked what the White Owl did with the spot. It was a great place to watch games and play pool. The Pint removed the pool table. It is loud in there though but so is Kilkennys. I liked what I got when I went to Main Street Tavern. It is neat they're focusing on their downtown a little bit in BA. It might do better than the Pint or White Owl because it is a bit more distinguished and they did have a couple specialties that stood out.

However, as you say, the Pint might've been doing well. Most every time I went in, it was crowded.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on June 16, 2017, 11:38:02 am
The first time I went to the pint they had awesome huge wings (regular drumsticks covered in wing sauce) but then they stopped doing that. I wish more places would have regular sized drumstick wings. They were really good and a lot less of a mess. Later visits weren't as good. I remember ordering pretzels which claimed to be served with Seikel's Mustard. They came out with plain heinz. I was frustrated and they laughed it off saying, oh no we've never served them with any other mustard! Well, the menu says that and it looked pretty new. Also, the difference between pretzels with Seikels vs pretzels with heinz is pretty drastic. Furthermore, the pretzels were awful and rest of the meal was ok.

Kilkenny's has tons of food option. Probably "too many options" according to some, but it works. Almost everything I've gotten there has been good and I have several "favorites". Plus the pub menu is so cheap. They have a nice small curated selection of beers. The atmosphere is top notch. The old wood and seats and lighting plus all the nooks and crannys all work together to make it feel like a real cozy Irish pub. They've created a real "experience" you can't get anywhere else in Oklahoma.

I liked what the White Owl did with the spot. It was a great place to watch games and play pool. The Pint removed the pool table. It is loud in there though but so is Kilkennys. I liked what I got when I went to Main Street Tavern. It is neat they're focusing on their downtown a little bit in BA. It might do better than the Pint or White Owl because it is a bit more distinguished and they did have a couple specialties that stood out.

However, as you say, the Pint might've been doing well. Most every time I went in, it was crowded.

Funny you mention the wings.  We got them first time we went when they first opened.  They arrived medium rare.

GHACK!


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Hoss on June 16, 2017, 02:24:58 pm
Funny you mention the wings.  We got them first time we went when they first opened.  They arrived medium rare.

GHACK!

What?  You don't like your fowl a little bloody?   ;)  Also known as 'salmonella red'?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on June 16, 2017, 02:48:15 pm
What?  You don't like your fowl a little bloody?   ;)  Also known as 'salmonella red'?

I’m not a fan of spending my weekend toilet-bound.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on June 16, 2017, 03:39:06 pm
I always liked The Pint even though the food was just okay.  I've heard Main Street Tavern is pretty good, but I've never been.  I can't imagine it will be a drop off.  It will be the same or better, I presume.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: pusherbot on June 20, 2017, 03:38:32 pm
The Pint was really meh.  We gave it several shots and nothing about it ever resonated with us.  The food was almost okay to okay and craft beer is not a unique offering for bars or pubs these days.  I’ve tried to think what about The Pint or the White Owl is so different from Kilkenny’s in trying to figure out why Kilkenny’s has seemed to work for so long.  Is it the more cozy public house atmosphere of Kilkenny’s which makes it more inviting?  The White Owl/Pint space has always seemed like a cavernous noise machine to me.

Main Street Tavern is nothing special either.  Ubiquitous bar eats and a decent drink and beer menu, but nothing really memorable.

Of course, we are speaking as if The Pint failed.  For all we know, this Main Street Tavern guy simply liked the location and made the owners of The Pint an offer they couldn’t refuse.

Eh I think Main Street Tavern has far better food, at least compared to the Pint.  To be honest though, Cherry Street has enough of the pub style restaurants.  It needs something different, like some really good Thai, sushi, or BBQ.  Honestly, I would dig some good Asian style food in that area.  I have tried Roka, and it is just disappointing.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: RazorBird on June 24, 2017, 11:20:45 am
Changing topic:

Just saw that OrangeTheory is going in where Noodles vacated.  Maybe I missed it, but I hadn't heard anything about this.  I assumed another food spot would open there.  I'm personally very disappointed that a fitness center is taking such a great spot.  Would love to hear some thoughts. 


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Breadburner on June 24, 2017, 11:42:49 am
Changing topic:

Just saw that OrangeTheory is going in where Noodles vacated.  Maybe I missed it, but I hadn't heard anything about this.  I assumed another food spot would open there.  I'm personally very disappointed that a fitness center is taking such a great spot.  Would love to hear some thoughts. 

It won't last....


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DowntownDan on August 29, 2017, 09:16:02 am
Ugh.  Can we please get some understanding that mid-town, especially 15th Street, is different than other parts of town?  Can we please stop this monstrosity from taking over the half-dozen buildings they want to raze to sell gas and chips?  Can we stick to small footprint gas stations in midtown?  I just don't understand how this is a good idea for anyone other than QT.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/PreserveMidtown/posts/?ref=page_internal


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: erfalf on August 29, 2017, 09:50:44 am
Hasn't that ship kind of already sailed at that intersection? I mean it's neighbors will be Walgreens, Office Depot and Reasor's with out parcels, all suburban developments in midtown.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 29, 2017, 10:00:34 am
Ironic that it is at this intersection...

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/5/26/stop-shoehorning-suburbia-into-walkable-places


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on August 29, 2017, 10:47:21 am
#RESIST


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on August 29, 2017, 10:47:25 am
This seems like a woefully small intersection to handle the sort of traffic this will draw.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: erfalf on August 29, 2017, 10:52:00 am
This seems like a woefully small intersection to handle the sort of traffic this will draw.

That was actually my first thought. Are left turns allowed off 15th at Lewis?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on August 29, 2017, 10:54:56 am
That was actually my first thought. Are left turns allowed off 15th at Lewis?

There are restricted lefts in both directions during certain hours which most people ignore anyhow.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on August 29, 2017, 11:01:13 am
Ironic that it is at this intersection...

Was this Bill & Ruth's originally a QT?  
I work 1 block away.   That intersection is woefully not pedestrian friendly.
It's a crapshoot whether or not each corner has a cross button to get to your destination corner.
I usually just walk down to 16th or so and jaywalk.   It's safer.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Townsend on August 29, 2017, 11:34:20 am
Table Talk: Nola's Creole and Cocktails to open on Cherry Street in the fall

http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-nola-s-creole-and-cocktails-to-open-on/article_61c760fc-55d1-5ce9-a81f-d6d837bfd3ad.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/blogs/scene/restaurants/table-talk-nola-s-creole-and-cocktails-to-open-on/article_61c760fc-55d1-5ce9-a81f-d6d837bfd3ad.html)

Quote
Nola’s Creole and Cocktails is scheduled to open this fall on Cherry Street, according to its website.

“Nola’s brings the great tastes of New Orleans to Cherry Street,” it says on the website.

It will be in the former Gray Snail Saloon space at 1334 E. 15th St.

A menu on the website lists a variety of “small plates,” including seared foie gras terrine ($17), roasted Gulf shrimp ($11), cheese board ($16), boudin balls ($6), cracklins ($8) and daily sausage ($6). A dinner menu was not posted yet.

It will be open for lunch from 11 a.m. to 2:30 p.m. Tuesday-Saturday and dinner from 5-10 p.m. Tuesday-Thursday and 5-11 p.m. Friday-Saturday, according to the website. http://nolastulsa.com/ (http://nolastulsa.com/)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: swake on August 29, 2017, 11:34:43 am
Was this Bill & Ruth's originally a QT?  
I work 1 block away.   That intersection is woefully not pedestrian friendly.
It's a crapshoot whether or not each corner has a cross button to get to your destination corner.
I usually just walk down to 16th or so and jaywalk.   It's safer.

Yeah, I gotta think that intersection is already a complete lost cause with the other three corners being a suburban style Reasors, Staples and Walgreens. The two main buildings they are taking out are an ugly strip mall and a former convenience store.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: patric on August 29, 2017, 12:20:07 pm
Was this Bill & Ruth's originally a QT?  
I work 1 block away.   That intersection is woefully not pedestrian friendly.
It's a crapshoot whether or not each corner has a cross button to get to your destination corner.
I usually just walk down to 16th or so and jaywalk.   It's safer.

Yes it was a QT before Bill & Ruths.  I dont expect to hear why QT abandoned it in the first place, but maybe they now see the removal of the "Lil Reasors" gas station across the street as creating a gasoline desert.

I hope this isnt going to be another fight to get QT to obey lighting ordinances like 21st & Harvard was, but they seem to have gotten the message with the big Type III just built at 41st & Memorial.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 29, 2017, 12:25:39 pm
But instead of improving the area, this is a further step away from density, urban, or walkable...


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on August 29, 2017, 12:36:33 pm
But instead of improving the area, this is a further step away from density, urban, or walkable...

If it's not broke nobody complains, why fix it?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: erfalf on August 29, 2017, 01:13:56 pm
But instead of improving the area, this is a further step away from density, urban, or walkable...

Most (read most likely everyone) in the neighborhood drives to work. Gas stations, while ugly, are good business in neighborhoods like that. Even in the heart of Cherry Street, unless you work in one of those shops/restaurants, your tail is driving to work too.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: DTowner on August 29, 2017, 01:34:25 pm
This intersection may be a lost cause as it is, but a QT will make it significantly worse in every way imaginable.

As for the streets themselves, I doubt they can handle the increased traffic.  15th is no left turn anytime in the east bound lanes, and prohibited during morning and evening rush hours in the west bound lanes.

QT may be a great place to work and a good corporate citizen in many respects, but it is not doing anything positive in mid-town with its giant suburban footprint.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: swake on August 29, 2017, 01:54:31 pm
This intersection may be a lost cause as it is, but a QT will make it significantly worse in every way imaginable.

As for the streets themselves, I doubt they can handle the increased traffic.  15th is no left turn anytime in the east bound lanes, and prohibited during morning and evening rush hours in the west bound lanes.

QT may be a great place to work and a good corporate citizen in many respects, but it is not doing anything positive in mid-town with its giant suburban footprint.


They need a new urban store prototype for sections of cities like this.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on August 29, 2017, 02:11:19 pm
15th is no left turn anytime in the east bound lanes, and prohibited during morning and evening rush hours in the west bound lanes.

Lucky for QT:
heading east: they'd be accessed by going straight... no left hand turn required
heading west:  the property stretches a block east of the intersection.    no need to turn left at the light - turn left into QT or Lewis Pl.

(https://scontent-dft4-3.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/21199811_1552458401480890_2339418007772239796_o.png?oh=9baeb5a60810596f77249b139bca18cf&oe=5A5E9965)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on August 29, 2017, 02:20:27 pm
They need a new urban store prototype for sections of cities like this.

An urban store would be out of place in this little suburban oasis.
City of Tulsa needs to enforce overlays to prevent sprawling Office Depot, Walgreens, Reasors type development in what could/should be a walkable urban area


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: swake on August 29, 2017, 02:33:46 pm
An urban store would be out of place in this little suburban oasis.
City of Tulsa needs to enforce overlays to prevent sprawling Office Depot, Walgreens, Reasors type development in what could/should be a walkable urban area

I agree this location is pointless, but 11th and Utica would have been a good place for a new urban format. A replacement for 36th and Peoria store too.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: patric on August 29, 2017, 03:09:02 pm
An urban store would be out of place in this little suburban oasis.
City of Tulsa needs to enforce overlays to prevent sprawling Office Depot, Walgreens, Reasors type development in what could/should be a walkable urban area

The south parking lot of the Office Despot across the street is always empty and unused.
If im looking at the drawing correctly, some homes along Lewis would be demolished for the new QT.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: BKDotCom on August 29, 2017, 03:20:51 pm
The south parking lot of the Office Despot across the street is always empty and unused.

Yup


If im looking at the drawing correctly, some homes along Lewis would be demolished for the new QT.

3 businesses (former homes) (https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1399601,-95.9582027,3a,75y,113.88h,83.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sLJpnAjnGN5F4dOuY3jitZw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656)
(their ghosts are on the siteplan)


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on August 29, 2017, 04:16:44 pm
Yes it was a QT before Bill & Ruths.  I dont expect to hear why QT abandoned it in the first place, but maybe they now see the removal of the "Lil Reasors" gas station across the street as creating a gasoline desert.

I hope this isnt going to be another fight to get QT to obey lighting ordinances like 21st & Harvard was, but they seem to have gotten the message with the big Type III just built at 41st & Memorial.

I think this may have been a U-Tote-Em or Git-N-Go unless I'm confusing this space with the one Duffy's is in now.  I just don't recall when this was ever a QT.  I can remember a liquor store being in there in high school.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on August 29, 2017, 04:21:22 pm
The south parking lot of the Office Despot across the street is always empty and unused.
If im looking at the drawing correctly, some homes along Lewis would be demolished for the new QT.

I looked at Office Depot on Google Earth the other day and the only thing I can see the south lot would be used for is their loading dock.

We can grumble about QT all we want and needing an urban design, but their business model is very auto-centric at its core.  I mean they are the leading gasoline retailer in the Tulsa market.  I've never seen anything wrong with the design of 41st & Sheridan or 21st & Harvard and I think those are a good compromise (as long as the lighting meets Patric's approval  ;) ).  These 80,000 square foot lots like they have at 11th & Utica are excessive, that's more like a truck stop.

I just had a memory from a visit to London 30+ years ago.  You couldn't find a gas station very easily.  They seemed to be a bit out of the way compared to what we are used to in a place that grew up with cars like Tulsa.  But we sure like our sprawl, don't we?


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Breadburner on August 29, 2017, 07:02:12 pm
Sucks but...O well...Not smile you can do about it...


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: sgrizzle on August 29, 2017, 08:02:54 pm
I think this may have been a U-Tote-Em or Git-N-Go unless I'm confusing this space with the one Duffy's is in now.  I just don't recall when this was ever a QT.  I can remember a liquor store being in there in high school.
Bill and Ruth's was QT store #15, original style. Probably like a 4 pumper. Probably closed due to the small size and kept closed when the station across the street opened.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Conan71 on August 29, 2017, 08:36:53 pm
Bill and Ruth's was QT store #15, original style. Probably like a 4 pumper. Probably closed due to the small size and kept closed when the station across the street opened.

Okay, I did confuse that with the former inhabitant of Duffy’s.  Now that you mention the four pump layout that sounds about right for the lot size.


Title: Re: Any new midtown/Cherry Street developments?
Post by: Bumby on September 02, 2017, 10:01:04 pm
According to my trusty 1971 Tulsa phone book, QuikTrip #15 was located at 3114 E Pine.  Duffy's was indeed a U-Totem, I stopped there on the way to my after school job.  There are no QuikTrips listed on 15th at all in the phone book and there is a Lamb's Phillips 66 listed at 1501 S Lewis.  Seems to me U-Totem moved to the corner and was eventually bought out by Circle K.  There is a Circle K listed at 1509 S Lewis in the 1989 phone book.