The Tulsa Forum by TulsaNow

It's time to get over stereotypes:
http://www.fox23.com/videos/news/fox-rant-the-case-for-medical-marijuana/vCM4X8/



UC Studies Show Marijuana Has Therapeutic Value, Reports to Legislature.
“We focused on illnesses where current medical treatment does not provide adequate relief or coverage of symptoms,” explained CMCR director, Igor Grant, MD, Executive Vice-Chair of the Department of Psychiatry at the UCSD School of Medicine.  “These findings provide a strong, science-based context in which policy makers and the public can begin discussing the place of cannabis in medical care.”
http://health.ucsd.edu/news/2010/2-17-medical-marijuana.htm
http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=2790222

Haven't we all been here before? We have all been here before.... we have all been here before.


http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13735.0

I think that AOX had a thread or two also trying to destroy the gateway drug myth.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mINUnwifgaA&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

evidently, it helped this guy calm down after the quake :D

Wow!

Held his breath for 4 hours on this thread.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCc-RWIp7XU[/youtube]

Flatuatorybogie, I don't inhale.

The editorial position in favor of reforming marijuana laws to allow for medical use seems worthy of discussion, considering the typical response of local media has been to simply voice over or add video to press handouts crowing about common pot busts. 
Rarely do you find reporters asking simple questions like "how much did this cost taxpayers?" or "could these resources have been better utilized to fight more substantial crimes?".

This thread should be sponsored by Fritos or Cheetohs.

They gain to sell more munchies if approved.

Nah, any self respecting stoner will tell you that Cool Ranch OR Nacho Cheese Doritos are the munchy of choice, but that's all relative, they're owned by the same people...wait, what?

Cool ranch 100%

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/stoned.jpg)

Back in my heyday was when they introduced Cool Ranch Ds, so I had to make due.

Wait, so you never really had the whole experience?

Better get you some of that glaucoma and quick.

And another:
http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=2803685

Maybe having a family member or friend with cancer gets people to re-order their priorities and perceptions.

Well we know that if the government hating, free market economy loving, tenth ammendment worshiping michelle bachmann or rick "yosemite sam" perry are elected pot will be legal overnight, right?  Ok Sorry I didn't mean to troll.  I'll be good, I'll be good.

I used to have a friend who had a rare form of depression that was completely managed with weed.

Basically he would get depressed when he ran out of weed.

Helps with bulimia too because the patient eats and then forgets to throw-up.

Two more valid medical uses.

Not to mention using the stuff to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil - not reduce, as the Republicontins talk about - eliminate!

Clogs my carburetor every time!  Have to keep a pocket knife and lighter in my glove compartment.

Wait, what?

Have you not read the other threads about using biomass using marijuana to make us energy independent??

If we REALLY are interested in energy self-sufficiency, the solution is already available.  As well as an excellent medicine for many different disease treatments.  Marijuana is a "wonder plant" - that is why George Washington grew so much of it!!

Also,
fiber for paper, so we don't have to cut down all the trees in the world.

So...you could send a letter to someone and they could read it, then smoke it. This is sounding better all the time.

This is a subject that really tests our country. Now is a good time to decriminalize the drug and re-assess many others. A change in my outlook but we can't afford to keep up charades. The bad news is it won't happen in an Obama administration because of the obvious politicization.

Let's face it: the law enforcement, court, and incarceration costs involved with pot is eating up massive amounts of money on a national, state, and local scale.  The effects alcohol has on individuals and families is far more deleterious than pot.

It has always been that way.  Was outlawed it only for the benefit of DuPont and Hearst.  (Nylon replacement for rope and trees owned by Hearst to make newspapers).  Not for any deleterious effect on society.

That would be hemp, not marijuana.  I love how those who are trying to legalize marijuana conveniently use the miracles of hemp, which is canibis, to try and sell their case.  And JEFFERSON grew and touted the wonders of hemp.  While there is speculation that other founding fathers my have had hemp plots, nothing substantiates it.  What is funny is the reason hemp became illegal is because no one knew the difference between it and Marijuana, so the canibis plant was outlawed, which included hemp and marijuana.  Of course, to get enough THC from hemp to get stoned by smoking it, you would have to smoke enough of it, fast enough, that it would end up burning up your lungs.

That, and it was associated with Mexicans.
I doubt any politician that votes against medical uses has any trouble obtaining it themselves when a family member has to undergo chemo.

So did Washington.  In fact, he was one of the biggest growers.  And he definitely was growing for medicinal as well as industrial purposes.

It is all C. Sativa.  Differences between varieties relate to the amount of THC in the plant.  Ranging from 0.5% to 20% in some of the "newer" stuff.

In FACT.  Way before DuPont Nylon, starting in the 1600's there were laws requiring the growth of hemp.

More information.
http://naihc.org/hemp_information/hemp_facts.html

It is the same species.  Growers have just gotten really good and engineering plants that produce more THC.  The stuff that the hippies were smoking was nothing compored to the stuff now.

That said though, I think that THC should be legal on its own ground.   The help/biofeul argument is good, but not directly relevant.  Marijuana should be legal because its negative effects are marginal at worst.  It is a matter of our constitutionally protected right to the pursuit of happiness.  Of course the government has a right to bad those things which do harm society in truely systemic ways (Heroin, coke, Barney)but the line between thos the two needs to be constantly reexamined.  That said, if booze is safe, then pot should be too as it very clearly does less damage physiologically and socially than 4loco.

Ok , done with rant for now....

Correct.  Should be legal for ALL reasons.  But mainly, because there is no valid excuse for it to be illegal.

Having been on against it at one time, I don't think you can say the arguments are totally invalid. They simply aren't strong enough in the face of reality. That reality being that the overzealous efforts to stop marijuana use has faithfully recreated the prohibition era gangsterism. It has diminished the credibility and effectiveness of law enforcement. It is clogging our judicial system and forcing it into player status (they make as much money as the dealers). All in an effort to punish what is basically a natural urge to enjoy peace and tranquility by whatever means necessary.

Its failure pure and simple.

Some info and videos related to medical marijuana can be found at http://okmedicalmarijuana.org (http://okmedicalmarijuana.org)

The only reason that ever had any possibility of being a valid argument to make marijuana illegal is that it may be a "gateway drug".  Whatever that may be...depends on the person doing the defining, I guess.  It is a meaningless term used to confuse and obfuscate.

If there were such a thing as a "gateway drug", there would be two.  Cigarettes and alcohol.  These are the two biggest predictors of addictive behavior, and yet the prohibition of both has been found to be impossible.  With cigarettes we find that at least 20% of the population has this "addictive gene".  Alcohol?  Who knows?

Back to grass; there has never been a valid argument for prohibition.

At least not one that makes sense to people like us.  ;)

Although I disagree, and do so with a wealth of experiential evidence, I have no intention of arguing a stance I no longer can justify in the face of pragmatic concerns.

Regardless of the arguments as to genetics, morality, societal degradation etc., it remains a fact that the cost to humanity of zealously persecuting, prosecuting and proselytizing is simply too costly.

I remember seeing films of chimps in the wild hanging around fruit trees and eating the rotting, fermenting fruit on the ground to get drunk and orgy. Seems like nature provides that sort of thing without any moral consequences. Of course the chimps are then helpless against predators, so natural consequences are in play. They are for humans too.

What are the reasons against, if you still held that view?

I don't partake of the substance any more and wouldn't if it were legal, so I really don't have a horse in this race.  The only real deleterious effects of pot are a number of carcinogens (supposedly 50% more than in cigarette smoke) and mental/emotional addiction to it.  To my knowledge there's not really any sort of physical dependency issues with it.

Most people I know who do or did smoke it generally did so to relax and didn't care to do it then drive or go to the store.  Certainly, there have been auto and work accidents caused by people under the influence, but I'd argue the incidence is far less than that of people under the influence of alcohol which is a perfectly legal drug.  I'd also argue that moderate use of pot doesn't result in near the long-term health effects as alcohol does and it's toll on family life and careers isn't nearly that of alcohol either.  I'm also not aware that one could smoke enough pot in one sitting to kill themselves like other drugs or alcohol.

That said, I don't believe all drugs should be decriminalized, just pot.  This 30 year war has been a failure.

"Animals are Beautiful People" is the film you are thinking of.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5E5TjkDvU0[/youtube]

I think it should be decriminalized as well. Like several others I used it years ago (30+), I don't think I would run out and buy swome if it was legal. But the thing that gets me is it is clasified as a Class 1 Drug, which is considered more dangerous than Class 2 drugs that include cocaine, morphine, and oxycodone.

And have you ever tried to bake morphine into anything made by Betty Crocker?  #tastesofass

Can't say that I have, but then again I was never interested in "hard drugs" at all.

*Cough*pot brownies*cough*

Did make lunch time in my teens a lot more interesting.  ;)

OK, just making sure you were still with me.

Love that film. Not sure its the same one I saw some 40 years ago but hilarious anyway.

Ok. Well...first compare the level of THC from 30 years ago to today. We were getting relaxed. Like my dad having a shot of Scotch after a hard day. At today's levels you're getting hammered. The results have been different as well. We got the munchies, got stupid, got laid and continued to keep our jobs and get our education. As many of you noted, it was a phase. Today, you still get the munchies but you get lethargic, lose your job, lose your short term memory, lose your focus, and likely stay stupid longer. Music and film education has become outstanding but ask the 18 year old in your workplace to tell you what % 16 is of 24 and get it on video. Long term studies are starting to come to fruition and from what I've heard the results aren't pretty.

Answer this question truthfully. Do you think the de-criminalization of marijuana, based on the argument that other drugs and alcohol are legal, will increase or decrease usage of the drug? And corollary questions...Will de-criminalization result in the corporatizing of the drugs production and marketing? Will you feel any safer knowing that you're being served by someone who is or recently was legally hammered?

I think it will increase usage and result in the passage of tons of regulations and lawsuits over who can and can't produce and sell it based on the history of moonshining. The long term usage negative health results, which beside cancer, may include permanent changes in brain function, genetic damage and early onset diabetes more than offset its relaxation abilities even if it is not a "gateway" drug. And I think it is incorrect to believe that where you buy your drugs has no impact on what other drugs you may buy. When I go to the liquor store for a bottle of wine and see cherry flavored Vodka, the weekend just got a little fuzzier. ;)

Then imagine the change in societal norms from that increased, broadened usage. Truth is, stupid people make decisions that hamper all our lives and this puts more stupid people on the streets. One of the largest train accidents in our history was because an engineer was smoking a blunt in the locomotive. Good thing he wasn't a pilot.

Pragmatically its a losing game to use so much of our resources to fight it in the way we've chosen. Its simply stupid. It should be decriminalized but I would hope we can do so without opening the door to wide scale corporate marketing of the drug.

Would you know if your being served by someone who is illegally hammered now? Visine and a change of clothes can hide the facts.

Would you feel safer is was decriminalized and produced by companies that had regulations that they had to follow as does the tobacco and alchohol manufactures do now?

There would probablly be an increase of usage of course, because people who used it recreationaly in their youth, could use it again. As for myself I doubt that I would. Yes it would also increase regulations on enforcement (ie workplace usage) but that would be similar to other regulations already in place. (yes I know that it shows for a number of days in you system after usage) There would have to be a scale developed to show imparement similar to alchohol, but you can also be arre3sted and charged with DUI if you are taking medication prescibed to you, why do you think most drugs have a warning on them about driving or operating heavy equipment while using the medication. (Besides the obvious attempt of the mfg's covering their donkey to prevent a lawsuit)

I've spent a fair amount of time in Colorado this year.  I'm amazed at how pervasive the medial MJ business has gotten there.  It's simply an end-run around existing laws, and you can be pretty certain the people dispensing it are under the influence or have been at some point recently.

What are some of the acceptable diagnoses which will get you a prescription?  Depression, anxiety, insomnia... get it?  Pay a shrink $100 for a scrip and you are good to go.

Aqua, I've read and heard of the study results like you have and don't disagree there are other long-term effects of pot.  I really don't know if more people would use or not if it were legal.  It would not be an incentive to me as I like having full lung capacity and don't want them pasted up with tar.  I did enough damage over the years with smoking.  There's all sorts of long term health issues with drugs we choose to keep legal like tobacco and alcohol too.  Many of the same maladies as you outlined with the dope can be found with heavy alcohol use.

We simply have to get a handle on how many people we incarcerate and this is one thing which would help, as well as trying to rehabilitate end users of other drugs rather than incarceration.

I think the increase would tend to broaden out over time as sophisticated marketers get a grip on how to sell the stuff to different demographics without totally exposing themselves. At what age is consumption legal? At what levels? At what legal exposure? I think its a can of worms whose regulation and legal impact will make the health care proposals look simplistic. States will want to control but the Fed will resist. But, I know its indefensible the way we handle it now. And, I know I could be wrong. Users at least need to stop being punished with a sledgehammer.

I very much agree with your last statement.

There is lots of controversy in Colorado and California as regards the medical usage. Many small communities are up in arms. Both states have movements to restrict or eliminate them. That is a preview of what would happen nationally.

Nationally, you could never get enough consensus, so I suspect it will be a state-by-state issue.  Are California and Colorado the only ones so far?  I would have thought Oregon and Vermont would have passed it by now.

Love fixing up your posts.  ;)

Let's use the Portugal system. Well, that might be at conflict with our Afghanistan strategy of protecting the poppy distribution network.

Keep it illegal. Tattoo and massage parlors along with bars and restaurants leave enough retail for money laundering. Government regulation doesn't work if you'll recall. I've learned so much here at TNF. Too bad about Gweed. I had to start listening to hate radio to get educated...

This is good.
Violent Attack At Marijuana Rally Ignored By Police
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/09/violent_attack_at_marijuana_rally_ignored_by_polic.php

Culture war...it's part of the GOP playbook.

Here is some info from Arizona:


http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2011/07/14/20110714arizona-medical-marijuana-cards-0714.html (http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2011/07/14/20110714arizona-medical-marijuana-cards-0714.html)

Probably a drunk Tea Bagger, no doubt.  That or stoned on a legal Lortab prescription...

I question whether or not these were real potheads or plants.  Most heads I know wouldn't have the attention span for a one hour protest:

"J. would not go with the ambulance; he said he was not going to put his life in their hands after the way the cops 'kept peace' in Lansing!"

According to Zig Zag Man, J. is still in a lot of pain; his muscles were wrenched when his head was turned too far by being hit with a sign. He'll be seeing a doctor on Tuesday.

"What great people us 'potheads,' are," Zig Zag man wrote. "Thank you to all that cooperated for the one hour before the smile hit the fan. Boy, a couple of these women were right in his face. What was sort of funny was for every bit of Scripture he tried to spout, five or 10 people were yelling back at him the opposing Scripture. He could not believe potheads actually knew about the Bible!

"I could not have been prouder of all the people at the rally... Thank you all!"

Pothead FAIL!

I saw more violence at a Walmart in Sun City watching little old ladies fight over the new items on the $1.00 or less table when they bring out new items.

They are shills for money launderers....Mexican drug lords ??

Actually, Fast food and doob seem to be the perfect combo for keeping a revolution at bay.

I just realized I can't post a pic....

Conan, I know you still would do a big fattie. :D

No, I quit doing fatties at about the same time I quit smoking doobies ;)

pot should be legal in its own grounds.  Pragmatic arguments are distractions.

Really.

In a reality based world, we have experience on a nationwide scale - as I have posted here before.  And not the Netherlands.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html

Make note that the study was by the Libertarian Cato Institute. Might as well have the Catholic church do a study on the efficacy of birth control methods.

Want to talk reality? Take this paragraph-
At the recommendation of a national commission charged with addressing Portugal's drug problem, jail time was replaced with the offer of therapy. The argument was that the fear of prison drives addicts underground and that incarceration is more expensive than treatment — so why not give drug addicts health services instead? Under Portugal's new regime, people found guilty of possessing small amounts of drugs are sent to a panel consisting of a psychologist, social worker and legal adviser for appropriate treatment (which may be refused without criminal punishment), instead of jail.


We don't live in Europe. We aren't much like people in Portugal or Spain or France. You simply cannot confuse Americans with facts and expect them to respond with a reasonable approach to punishment, drug therapy and best use of resources.  That is fantasy.

First, find a president that has the fortitude to even propose such a commission. He won't be black or liberal I assure you. If we elected Ron Paul and I would say this process would work here as it would signal a quantum change in political outlook. Until then the Portugal experience will be pooh poohed by conservatives, hard liners from all sides and fundamental fanaticists who still think drug users are simply basically evil or under the spell of Satan.

Let me re-emphasize that I believe in de-criminalization of a lot of drug classifications. I just don't believe that we are ready to intelligently evolve to panels of psychologists, social workers and legal reps that refer drug users to treatment. Wish we were.

Clearing the Smoke: The Science of Cannabis

http://video.pbs.org/video/1825223761?starttime=1200000


Take an hour and you will probably learn something useful; might just save your life someday. You'll want to move to Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Vermont, or California. Healthier states for aging boomers....

FIFY  ;)

Biggest problem is how we have shut down even the research on the chemicals that have the benefits.  I would just as soon take a pill with the proper stuff in it.  Don't have to smoke a joint to benefit from the stuff.


Plus what we miss out on for energy self sufficiency.  But we really aren't interested in that, are we?

C   Corn        200 bu/acre @ 56 lb/bushel   1200 lbs    .6 ton
S   Switchgrass   4-6 ton per acre             8,000 lbs   4 ton
H   Hemp            12-14 ton per acre          24,000 lbs  12 ton

During World War I - Biomass yield
WWI      German   50 gal/ton
      US      25 gal/ton - faster throughput

German   C   50 x .6      30 gal
      S   50 x 4      200 gal
      H   50 x 10   500 gal

US      C   25 x .6      15 gal
      S   25 x 4      100 gal
      H   25 x 10   250 gal


US oil useage   19,500,000 barrels/day (we are down from this)
Gallons          819,000,000 gallons/day
            
At 50 gal per ton, need 819,000,000/50 = 16,380,000 tons biomass per day.
At 14 ton per acre, need 16,380,000/14 = 1,170,000 acres per day equivalent of growing biomass.
At 365 days per year, need 27860 x 365 = 427,050,000 acres.
At 640 acres per square mile, need 10,167,858/640 = 667,266 square miles of growing biomass.

Area of state in square miles - just 8 states!

Nebraska    77,421 sq. miles
Kansas      82,264
South Dakota   77,353
Oklahoma   69,899
Texas      268,580
Wyoming   97,813
Montana   147,042
Sub total         820,372

Missouri   69,704
Virginia   42,774
Next Sub total         932,850

Even if we just used part of our farmland, and maybe some marginal land, we could easily cover today's needs.  And it would be very easy to just use MJ for part of our energy needs.  Suppose we only grow half... then we are at energy self-sufficiency.  No more foreign imports.

Yeah, off topic.  But it really IS a part of the total topic - stupid drug laws!

Don't grow it in Texas. When the wildfires hit them the South winds blow the smoke up here. Everyone gets high and stops working, then the Fed sticks us with a dirty air violation.!

Why do you keep trying to push MJ as Hemp?  They are not the same, so stop trying to pretend they are.

Is hemp subject to the same status legally as marijuana?

Cannabis sativa.  Either one or both or all of them or each of them or whatever....ALL should get off the criminal lists.  If so much difference, why will you be busted for hemp cultivation?  All imprisoned for just MJ or hemp should be out of prison.

The difference is so subtle as to be meaningless.  MJ has a few % (2 -20), hemp has very low % (less than 1).  C. sativa sativa is better fiber.  C sativa indica is better smoke.  And it is selective breeding, mostly since the 30's that has caused the big differentiation.

For energy production, it doesn't really matter which one you use - either or both will solve the problem, so if it can be a multi-use product, more power to it.  So again, why do we continue our inane, anal-retentive insanity??

Legally Hemp is placed in the same classification as Marijuana, and it was placed their out of ignorance.  Simply put, it was put in the same classification as Marijuana because the law makers only knew that they were both Cannabis, without understanding the difference between the two.  Of course, I also think the pot smokers who push this issue of the "miracle plant" also over estimate it's abilities to the point of fantasy, but that is another argument all together.

Well, if there is such a thing as a point of fantasy or an over estimation, let's hear it.  Exactly where in all the legalization arguments do the exaggerations exist?

Benefit to sick people?  Well documented by many users that there is a real live clinical benefit to pain relief, nausea relief, appetite action important to cancer patients to let them eat, pressure relief in eyes for glaucoma.  More than enough evidence to not only justify, but demand that larger, formal study of the plant be done.

Fuel?  We have hundreds if not thousands of years of documented experience regarding yields for cannabis S.  It IS the 'magic bullet' that we could use today to start to relieve our energy dependence on foreign supply.  But then, we could actually do that anyway if the oil companies would just drill and produce in the OTHER 75% of the lands they already have available and proven for drilling and production.

Paper?  Well, there is certainly enough room to add a little bit more growing space to provide for paper production.  It has been done before and could easily be done again.  PLUS save a whole bunch of trees in the process.  And we haven't even talked about how much room Canada has that would also be good for growing, and since they are so closely tied to us, it would benefit both.

Clothing?  Lots of clothing fiber already starting to show up.  Easier and cheaper to grow, less environmentally unfriendly that either cotton OR the popular synthetics (oil based) used today.

Cosmetic related?  I see all kinds of hemp derived 'stuff in bottles' at the department stores.  All garbage to me, but lots of people seem to get into that kind of thing.

Recreational use?  Well, we all are pretty much aware of the benefits and the FACT that the downsides are orders of magnitude (that means dramatically) less than the comparative alternative products.  (Any and all of the alternatively used recreational chemicals, including but not limited to; opiates - natural and synthetic, cigarettes, and all flavors of alcohol.)

I submit that it is a lot like aspirin - arguably one of the more important "miracle drugs" - in that this one item excels in so many different applications/uses.

I would like to see one single area pointed out where the hype of "miracle plant" goes even a little bit beyond the reality.  Got one??  
Come on now...you brought up the pot smokers pushing the issue of 'miracle plant' - a lot of non-smokers push the same issue (me!)...show just one exaggeration!

So, Hemp could be the Peanut of the 21st century ala George Washington Carver?

What would massive devotion to Hemp cultivation do to the soil? I wasn't joking about not having Texas grow it because of fires and air pollution. If we start to use it as a fuel source it would be more subject to the fluctuations of weather and fire than petroleum supplies are.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRm1yqSmsGY[/youtube]

Lighten up!

It would help my motherf@#king Tourette's?

Awesome!

That's why earlier in this post I mentioned using it as a partial solution.  In addition to wind, solar, and oil.  The more diversified the base sources, the less susceptible to major disruption.  Remember the 70's oil embargo - and the ensuing stupid panic??  Yeah, I know, contrived.  In exact same fashion as the Enron/Williams Co/Devon Energy contrived energy emergency in California.  If there are other sources to take up the slack, there is less disruption.  Always.

As far as the soil, well it grows pretty well in really mediocre soil...as well as good soil.  Doesn't require anywhere near the fertilizer that corn does.  Nor insecticides.  It is no "candy-donkey" plant that needs a lot of "hand holding" or coddling like cotton or corn.

This is what I meant by the overestimation of the ability of the plant.  Yes, it (hemp, not Marijuana, don't confuse the two) has a lot of uses, and is very versatile, but it is not the end all and be all of all of the problems we have.  Yet it is toted in such a way by so many of the pro Marijuana crowd (can we say coattails?) that it is given the appearance of being the final solution to 100% of today's woes (yes, Hyperbole, but not by much).  It has it's limitations, and, as you say, is only a partial solution. 

Personally, I think that Hemp should be completely legal and put into production.  In fact, and I'm not positive about this, but I could swear I read somewhere that Hemp cultivation is actually GOOD for the soil.  I think we would benefit from it immensely, and that the stupidity of those who made the whole kit and caboodle has truly hurt this country.  As far as Marijuana goes, the "medical" benefits are still greatly debated.  For every report that shows how it "helped" someone, you can find a like one comparing it to a placebo.  But at the same time, I don't think that we should be filling our prisons with pot-heads just because they want to get stoned.  It just gets me how it is supposedly non-addictive, yet smokers fight so hard to be able to smoke it. 

They are too mellow to fight too hard.  Otherwise you would see the kind of battles that occurred with alcohol prohibition.  And the absolute insanity of smokers when the first no smoking in public places - like airplanes - rules came about.  All that crap about "their rights" being trampled.  BS.  Biggest bunch of whiners in the world.

Good for the soil?  Don't know about that...it is not a legume, it is Cannabaceae.  My thought would be that the benefit to soil would be only for the organic matter residues it leaves.  It won't fix nitrogen like the legumes will.  The best plant in this country for soil?  Alfalfa by far.

Medical benefits...only real doubt is raised by the same kind of people who think we are not having increased climate volatility.  (Notice I did NOT say global warming, nor did I say that it was human made.  Reference the Vostok ice core data.)  The volatility is a fact.  The only question(s) are why/how/when/where.  What has already been answered.

Which means we should study the plant for a wide variety of possible uses.  And since it has no significant deleterious effects compared to other legal recreationals, then if we are going to claim to be a free society, there is no justification for prohibition.  And insanity to put people in prison for use/possession.  Not to mention a multi-billion dollar expense that we should be saving.

Back when he was running for president in 2008, Barack Obama insisted that medical marijuana was an issue best left to state and local governments. "I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws on this issue," he vowed, promising an end to the Bush administration's high-profile raids on providers of medical pot, which is legal in 16 states and the District of Columbia.

But over the past year, the Obama administration has quietly unleashed a multi­agency crackdown on medical cannabis that goes far beyond anything undertaken by George W. Bush. The feds are busting growers who operate in full compliance with state laws, vowing to seize the property of anyone who dares to even rent to legal pot dispensaries, and threatening to imprison state employees responsible for regulating medical marijuana. With more than 100 raids on pot dispensaries during his first three years, Obama is now on pace to exceed Bush's record for medical-marijuana busts. "There's no question that Obama's the worst president on medical marijuana," says Rob Kampia, executive director of the Marijuana Policy Project. "He's gone from first to worst."

The federal crackdown imperils the medical care of the estimated 730,000 patients nationwide – many of them seriously ill or dying – who rely on state-sanctioned marijuana recommended by their doctors. In addition, drug experts warn, the White House's war on law-abiding providers of medical marijuana will only drum up business for real criminals. "The administration is going after legal dispensaries and state and local authorities in ways that are going to push this stuff back underground again," says Ethan Nadelmann, director of the Drug Policy Alliance. Gov. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, a former Republican senator who has urged the DEA to legalize medical marijuana, pulls no punches in describing the state of affairs produced by Obama's efforts to circumvent state law: "Utter chaos."

In its first two years, the Obama administration took a refreshingly sane approach to medical marijuana. Shortly after Obama took office, a senior drug-enforcement official pledged to Rolling Stone that the question of whether marijuana is medicine would now be determined by science, "not ideology." In March 2009, Attorney General Eric Holder emphasized that the Justice Department would only target medical-marijuana providers "who violate both federal and state law." The next morning, a headline in The New York Times read OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO STOP RAIDS ON MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSERS. While all forms of marijuana would remain strictly illegal under federal law – the DEA ranks cannabis as a Schedule I drug, on par with heroin – the feds would respect state protections for providers of medical pot. Framing the Obama administration's new approach, drug czar Gil Kerlikowske famously declared, "We're not at war with people in this country."

That original hands-off policy was codified in a Justice Department memo written in October 2009 by Deputy Attorney General David Ogden. The so-called "Ogden memo" advised federal law-enforcement officials that the "rational use of its limited investigative and prosecutorial resources" meant that medical-marijuana patients and their "caregivers" who operate in "clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state law" could be left alone.

At the same time, Ogden was concerned that the feds not "be made a fool of" by illegal drug traffickers. In that vein, his memo advised U.S. attorneys to focus on going after pot dispensaries that posed as medicinal but were actively engaged in criminal acts, such as selling to minors, possession of illegal firearms or money-laundering. The idea, as Holder put it, was to raid only those hardcore traffickers who "use medical-marijuana laws as a shield."

The Ogden memo sent a clear message to the states: The feds will only intervene if you allow pot dispensaries to operate as a front for criminal activity. States from New Mexico to Maine moved quickly to license and regulate dispensaries through their state health departments – giving medical marijuana unprecedented legitimacy. In California, which had allowed "caregivers" to operate dispensaries, medical pot blossomed into a $1.3 billion enterprise – shielded from federal blowback by the Ogden memo.

The administration's recognition of medical cannabis reached its high-water mark in July 2010, when the Department of Veterans Affairs validated it as a legitimate course of treatment for soldiers returning from the front lines. But it didn't take long for the fragile federal detente to begin to collapse. The reversal began at the Drug Enforcement Agency with Michele Leonhart, a holdover from the Bush administration who was renominated by Obama to head the DEA. An anti-medical-marijuana hard-liner, Leonhart had been rebuked in 2008 by House Judiciary chairman John Conyers for targeting dispensaries with tactics "typically reserved for the worst drug traffickers and kingpins." Her views on the larger drug war are so perverse, in fact, that last year she cited the slaughter of nearly 1,000 Mexican children by the drug cartels as a counterintuitive "sign of success in the fight against drugs."

In January 2011, weeks after Leonhart was confirmed, her agency updated a paper called "The DEA Position on Marijuana." With subject headings like THE FALLACY OF MARIJUANA FOR MEDICINAL USE and SMOKED MARIJUANA IS NOT MEDICINE, the paper simply regurgitated the Bush administration's ideological stance, in an attempt to walk back the Ogden memo. Sounding like Glenn Beck, the DEA even blamed "George Soros" and "a few billionaires, not broad grassroots support" for sustaining the medical-marijuana movement – even though polls show that 70 percent of Americans approve of medical pot.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/obamas-war-on-pot-20120216#ixzz1myjmGDLW

I'm holding out hopes he gives in on States rights and may actually support Federal decrim. But he can't do that before the election. In fact, he must play hard ball for now!....

(http://)

I'm figuring he's spent the last three and a half years figuring out who to pander to in order to get re-elected.  Once that is no longer a priority, there is a good chance he might actually accomplish something he promised.

Maybe he needs it for pain, and is just trying to avoid the Rush Limbaugh Oxycontin route...


RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson says marijuana should be legalized and treated like alcohol because the government's war on drugs has failed.
The outspoken evangelical Christian and host of "The 700 Club" on the Virginia Beach-based Christian Broadcasting Network he founded said the war on drugs is costing taxpayers billions of dollars. He said people should not be sent to prison for marijuana possession.

In a statement Thursday, Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, said Robertson's "clearly stated and well-reasoned comments throw a curve ball into the growing debate over legalizing marijuana."
"Defenders of marijuana prohibition ... must be wondering if it's only a matter of time before theirs proves to be a lost cause," he said.

In other news, Satan and Hitler are having a snowball fight in hell.....

He has talked about this for a while now.  He recognizes that the 'war on drugs' has been an abject failure.  If you keep doing the same thing after 100 years and it still doesn't work, it's time to try something else.

Communist.

Me or Pat Robertson?

(Answer; neither.)

Both.  Why not?  It was sarcasm either way.  ;D

Yeah...I know....

I am probably closer than PR, but still a long ways away.  I have both Marx's Communist Manifesto and Mao's 'Little Red Book'.  They both read a lot like the RWRE nonsense verbally spewed on KRMG.  Take a little tiny grain of truth and weave a tapestry of crap around it.

Vinita PD and Craig County deputies take a drug dealer off the streets (at least those streets that are handicap accessible).

http://www.fox23.com/mostpopular/story/Deputies-find-pot-277-000-in-73-year-old-womans/g1ML55dBqUGxyhznY5hgDA.cspx

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/17374197_BG2.jpg)

VINITA - A Craig County drug task force serving a search warrant late Monday seized about $277,000 in cash from the home of a 73-year-old woman, Craig County Sheriff Jimmie Sooter said.
“She said the money was hers, that it was for retirement. Of course, once we got into it, it was pretty obvious it wasn’t hers.”

I’m sorry, why did you post this in a thread on medical marijuana?


Granted, I don’t see the point in it being criminalized, but you make it sound as if she got busted with an ounce of weed for her glaucoma.  How about tax evasion on $275,000?

Now we know why grannies brownies always sold out so fast at the church bazaar. 

Gustin L. Reichbach is a justice of the State Supreme Court in Brooklyn.

It's going to happen just like last week on SSM....it will be Obama ending the War On Drugs by declaring states have the right to legislate and saving billions in the budget....when he gets re-elected.

http://news.yahoo.com/autopsy-evidence-marijuana-martins-blood-215533578.html related...Martin smoked before he died! OMG

I wonder how many people he has sentenced for marijuana?  Or how many appeals ruled against?

Hopefully none.


I don't often wish ill for others - this is one topic where a convenient little dose of cancer for those who are voting and working against this use would probably be a pretty good case of "poetic justice".
I know - that is a terrible thing to wish and I really don't.

Yes you do or you wouldn't have brought it up.

I just might in this case.  Hard to say, since that wish goes so greatly and directly against my nature and basic belief structure.  When compared to the evil done by those people to inflict the large amount of suffering by their policies just to keep some economic benefit - well, I guess that kind of colors my outlook.

It's just being brutally honest, which is more than I can say for those politicians who quietly use their law enforcement connections to obtain what they need for themselves or a sick family member.

Relief from drug war insanity is going to take a lot more than waking up some politicians, because here's what you would be up against:



Republic Report think it’s worth showing that there are entrenched interest groups that are spending large sums of money to keep our broken drug laws on the books:

    1.) Police Unions: Police departments across the country have become dependent on federal drug war grants to finance their budget. In March, we published a story revealing that a police union lobbyist in California coordinated the effort to defeat Prop 19, a ballot measure in 2010 to legalize marijuana, while helping his police department clients collect tens of millions in federal marijuana-eradication grants. And it’s not just in California. Federal lobbying disclosures show that other police union lobbyists have pushed for stiffer penalties for marijuana-related crimes nationwide.

    2.) Private Prisons Corporations: Private prison corporations make millions by incarcerating people who have been imprisoned for drug crimes, including marijuana. As Republic Report’s Matt Stoller noted last year, Corrections Corporation of America, one of the largest for-profit prison companies, revealed in a regulatory filing that continuing the drug war is part in parcel to their business strategy. Prison companies have spent millions bankrolling pro-drug war politicians and have used secretive front groups, like the American Legislative Exchange Council, to pass harsh sentencing requirements for drug crimes.

    3.) Alcohol and Beer Companies: Fearing competition for the dollars Americans spend on leisure, alcohol and tobacco interests have lobbied to keep marijuana out of reach. For instance, the California Beer & Beverage Distributors contributed campaign contributions to a committee set up to prevent marijuana from being legalized and taxed.

    4.) Pharmaceutical Corporations: Like the sin industries listed above, pharmaceutical interests would like to keep marijuana illegal so Americans don’t have the option of cheap medical alternatives to their products. Howard Wooldridge, a retired police officer who now lobbies the government to relax marijuana prohibition laws, told Republic Report that next to police unions, the “second biggest opponent on Capitol Hill is big Pharma” because marijuana can replace “everything from Advil to Vicodin and other expensive pills.”

    5.) Prison Guard Unions: Prison guard unions have a vested interest in keeping people behind bars just like for-profit prison companies. In 2008, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association spent a whopping $1 million to defeat a measure that would have “reduced sentences and parole times for nonviolent drug offenders while emphasizing drug treatment over prison.”

http://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal/

The carcinogens in our air from industry will do us far more harm than hemp.

I knew three well known Tulsans who died from lung cancer. They never smoked and fought against smoking everywhere including public parks.

Tulsa should become a smoke free city. New York and California are much nicer and kinder environments ever since they went clean.

Can't do that. We got too much Okie in us. That's what makes us special.

http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/crosby-stills-and-nash/video/prison-song_1343251093.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/opinion/a-judges-plea-for-medical-marijuana.html?_r=1&smid=fb-share

I'm aganist it, we don't need more people with altered minds on the streets we have enogh problems with legal alcohol as it is without adding more people on top of that. MJ can somethimes be a "gateway" drug too. I do think the drug laws need to be overhauled though.

Look Sauer....nobody dies as a result of MJ. Quit trying to supervise over the masses. Don't you believe in personal choice and freedom?

Or are you this guy?


(http://www.philzone.org/discus/messages/36579/771328.jpg)

Look Sauer, nobody who tokes up now is going to stop because of the law. Nobody who isn't using is going to start based on decriminalizing of the substance. The level of driving expertise is at an all time low due to cell phones and aggressive behavior. You'll never notice the difference in bad driving.

 However, the cost of enforcement of mj laws, the loss to society of contributing players, the tremendous cost of incarceration for minor offenses and the uneven justice doled out to lawyered up defendants vs public defender defendants (poor dumb guys) means we all pay way too much for very little gain.

As a fiscal conservative and a taxpayer you should really support decriminalizing.

The "gateway" is a direct product of criminalization. 

Because marijuana is illegal, you would have to buy it from someone dealing in contraband (who would much rather sell you something more compact like meth).

Decriminalization takes it out of the hands of criminal dealers and into a more controlled, taxable environment, and lessens a buyers exposure to truly dangerous drugs (and people).

Coca-Cola could be considered a gateway since it could lead to drinking rum & coke.

I blame breast milk as the gateway to my moonshine addiction.

Yes but making MJ legal will increase use and like I said we have enough problems with alcohol and adding MJ to the mix won't help. I don't understand why people want to alter their brains anyhow what's wrong with just getting high on "life" and don't take any drugs?? I do agree the drug laws are unfair and don't fit the crime and need to be changed... There is still alot not known about MJ use and some users of MJ  long ago who have since quit seem to have dulled thinking and slow reactions, also MJ can't be healthy for the lungs any smoke likely cause lung carcinoma just like cigs do. As for me, I'm a  non-drinker non-smoker and non drug user, color me old fashioned I guess.

MoonSine~ From deep in the hills of West VA, where they pipe in the SunShine and pipe out the MoonShine. :D

So, you would support making cigarettes illegal along with alcohol? Or you just saying some addiction and mind altering is ok but no more?

There is no more strength for your argument that MJ usage will increase than mine that it will remain the same. So throw those arguments out. What is left is the concept of decriminalization. It does not make it legal, it makes it controllable, regulated and similar to a speeding ticket.

You make the cost of the product and the cost of using it high enough to discourage use rather than throwing citizens in prison for misdemeanor activities.

Now that we know why you are the way you are.   Quick!  Get me a drink.

Is that at new trig function?  Is it phase related to Cosine?

Geometry joke of the month!

So, stay home!

Big step in solving the "more people with altered minds on the street" problem.

And trotting out the tired old platitudes - the plaintive bleats - of a policy that has failed for decades in the case of MJ and over 100 years for some other items.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wWWOJGYZYpk[/youtube]

Yes, because everything comes back to Obama.

Advocacy?


Penn's got it right.

Kinda harsh, ole Penn. Marijuana was made illegal by pronouncement. The Executive Branch through the FDA classified it as having no medicinal use, same as heroin and cocaine. Now, that there is ample evidence or medicinal use (which there was back then as well), the FDA can reclassify it and eliminate the problem.

There is no federal "law" that makes marijuana specifically illegal, just a law that allows the FDA to classify it as such. Funny how it took a constitutional amendment to make alcohol illegal (and even then it was OK for medicinal purposes) but it just tales a decision by some bureaucrats to make herb illegal.

"A proposed 66 percent cut in the National Guard Counterdrug Program by the Obama administration could sharply reduce the number of helicopter flights aimed at finding illicit pot gardens next year. " 
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2012/05/eastern_oregon_law_officers_wo.html The disarming of our long losing war on drugs.

Just a matter of a little more time. Won't matter here. The Governess will surely mount her forces to stop it under states rights the very second the executive branch signs off. She'll do it to protect our children despite her war on education.

5 states will benefit tremendously.

“Is crack worse for a person than marijuana?” Congressman Jared Polis asked Drug Enforcement Administration official Michele Leonhart.

“I believe all illegal drugs are bad,” she meekly replied.

“Is methamphetamine worse for somebody’s health than marijuana?”

As she began to repeat her same answer, Polis interrupted her, asking, “Is heroin worse for someone’s health than marijuana?”

“Again. All drugs…” she began to answer, before a frustrated Polis cut her off.

“Yes, no, or I don’t know,” he said. “If you don’t know, you can look this up. You should know this as the chief administrator for the Drug Enforcement Agency. I’m asking you a very straightforward question: Is heroin worse for someone’s health than marijuana?”

“All illegal drugs are bad,” she replied.

“Does this mean you don’t know?” Polis interrupted.

Clearly she doesn’t. Or she simply refuses to acknowledge the facts. Plenty of studies show that drugs like heroin, methamphetamine, and cocaine are much more addictive and harmful than marijuana. Heck, the same studies also show that alcohol and nicotine are more addictive and harmful than marijuana. Our own government even recognizes that nicotine is potentially as addictive as heroin and cocaine.

Despite the well-known research, Leonhart accused Polis of asking a “subjective” question.

“No, this is objective. Just looking at the science,” Polis shot back. “This is your area of expertise. I’m just a layperson but I’ve read some of the studies and I’m aware of it. I’m just asking you as an expert in the subject area: is heroin worse for someone’s health than marijuana?”

“And I’m answering as a police officer, and as a DEA agent, that these drugs are illegal because they are dangerous, because they are addictive, because they do hurt a person’s health,” she replied.

He pressed her once more: “So heroin is more addictive than marijuana?”

She conceded that heroin is addictive, and so is meth, but when Polis tried to get her to answer whether they are more addictive than marijuana, she gave yet another non-answer: “I think some people become addicted to marijuana and some people become addicted to methamphetamine.”

Eventually Polis turned the conversation to the DEA’s classification of prescription drug abuse as “top priority,” telling Leonhart that his home state of Colorado legalized medical marijuana and saw a decrease in prescription drug abuse (side note: a new study also finds that medical marijuana reduces teen marijuana use). “Would your agency consider supporting medical marijuana provisions when that can be used in pursuit of your top priority — which is reducing the need for prescription drugs — if it can be documented that medical marijuana helps reduce the abuse of prescription drugs?”

Leonhart’s non-answer: “Congress determined that marijuana is a controlled substance. And DEA’s tasked with enforcing — ”

“Again,” he interrupted, “in pursuit of your ‘top priority,’ are you willing to look at medical marijuana as a way of reducing abuse of prescription drugs?”

Leonhart’s response: “We will look at any options for reducing drug addiction.”

Yeah, okay.
http://www.mediaite.com/online/democratic-congressman-schools-dea-agent-over-marijuana-during-congressional-hearing/

The irony is that people of the street know that the only treatment for crack is marijuana and the places you get marijuana would rather sell you crack. Legalizing it would make it available in an environment devoid of dealers whose only interest is maximizing their profit.

Yet, the DEA enforcement officials are not equipped to make those decisions as to who gets rousted. As long as Congress tells the DEA that enforcing marijuana prohibition is just as important as heroin, they have little choice and marijuana arrests are an easier success. Congress and the executive branch are the targets for changing enforcement, not the DEA.

Get rid of the neanderthals in Congress. No incumbents from red states.

And yet, you are still a big Inhofe fan, in spite of his past...

Medium, not big.  He offers some things I agree with (that I know you don't) in spite of his reputation among liberals and Democrats.  You have offered alternatives that you think are vastly superior but we disagree.  That's just the way it is.

Perhaps, perhaps not vastly superior -  but absolutely in line with the idea of voting out every incumbent.  And then the next time, vote that one out.  Until there is a good one - which is never gonna happen, so keep voting out the previous one.

Vastly superior - at the very least, vastly superior by the fact they haven't been doing damage to the state since the 60's.

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/391285_444719505559317_1118282804_n.jpg)

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/federal-laws-pertaining-to-marijuana (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/federal-laws-pertaining-to-marijuana)



Federal Law trumps State Law.

You are full of what you spew.

http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html (http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html)

http://www.incb.org/pdf/e/list/46thedition.pdf (http://www.incb.org/pdf/e/list/46thedition.pdf)

Well, yes and no.
When Congress wants to look informed on the subject, who do you think they go to for their expertise?
Remember, most of these representatives have to have interns do Google searches and email.

The above hearing clearly shows DEA bureaucracy is inept and only motivated by politics.

The Schedule 1 list (No Recognized Medical Use) skirts history.  LSD has been used in Norway to treat alcoholism, and marijuana was considered the most effective drug at treating migraine attacks.

...yet Schedule 4 (limited dependency/abuse risk) lists dangerous highly abused drugs like phenobarbital.

The system is broken, and all the forceful "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" heavy-handedness has not made that fact any less real.



(http://loldrugs.com/sites/loldrugs.com/files/wizard-of-oz-acid-trip.jpg)

Marijuana has been a controlled substance since the 30's. It was made a Class I narcotic before the DEA was formed.

That and cya.

What would be your plan for decriminalizing any drug in this political atmosphere? No sitting president or Congressman up for re-election dares support such craziness. It seems that attacking the beast from the inside (the states) as the TP'ers and Gay activists are doing might be the best strategy. That would force a face-off.

Convince the Tea Partiers that MJ cures “teh ghey” and it might just get decriminalized.

The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws developed the Uniform State Narcotic Drug Act in 1934 due to the lack of restrictions in the Harrison Act of 1914. The act was a revenue-producing act and, while it provided penalties for violations, it did not give authority to the states to exercise police power regarding either seizure of drugs used in illicit trade or punishment of those responsible.

Harry J. Anslinger, a member of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, campaigned and lobbied for passage of the Uniform State Narcotic Act.
Anslinger launched a nationwide media campaign declaring that marijuana causes temporary insanity. The advertisements featured young people smoking marijuana and then behaving recklessly, committing crimes, killing themselves and others, or dying from marijuana use. The propaganda campaign was a success and all states signed on.



Meanwhile, in our century:

 

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi reiterated her support for medical marijuana on Wednesday and indicated Democrats might be interested in taking changes to federal law after the election.

“I’ve been very clear on the subject of medical marijuana over time, in committee and on the floor as leader,” Pelosi said told Raw Story at a round table of bloggers.

“I think that it would be really important to do that,” Pelosi said. “It would be hard for anyone to agree with the fact that someone who has HIV/AIDS or has cancer and they find relief from pain in medicinal marijuana that should be something that should be a priority to raid on the part of the Justice Department. Going along with that, we need to address some of the penalties for any non-violent crime that are out there.”

Pelosi previously attacked the administration on medical marijuana raids in May, when she criticized the administration for carrying out raids on medical marijuana facilities. The Obama administration has carried out more raids than the George W. Bush administration.

Her statement at that time said, “I have long supported efforts in Congress to advocate federal policies that recognize the scientific research and clinical research demonstrating the medical benefits of medicinal marijuana, that respects the wishes of the states in providing relief to ill individuals, and that prevents the federal government from acting to harm the safe access to medicinal marijuana provided under state law.”

Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) told Raw Story, “I think our marijuana policy in this country is absolutely nuts.” He predicted that within 10 years, the country would move on medical marijuana policy nationwide.   And an increasing number of Americans agree with Blumenauer. A recent poll showed 74 percent of Americans agree that the federal government shouldn’t interfere with states’ laws on medical marijuana. A Gallup poll from last year also showed that 50 percent of Americans now support full legalization of marijuana.

Local authorities refusing to cooperate or give support to the feds when they want to raid a legal, tax-paying dispensary?

Yeah, legalize the ghey then legalize the anti-ghey. Sounds pretty Machiavellian. We all win!

Yeah, they've been saying within 10 years for the last three decades. Talk is cheap, and the "war on drugs" is a cash cow.

We need only go as far as the recent federal sting here in Tulsa to see how well the WOD is going.
How we progressed from the 1930's version of anti-Mexican legislation, to drug enforcement officers caught on tape filling their pockets with cash in a Tulsa motel room, is mind boggling.

If you (everyone here) gets the chance, use your Netflix to watch "Reefer Madness".  I have the DVD, so don' t have to stream it...

It shows the hysteria, misrepresentations, distortions, and lies that have accompanied the WOD since the get-go.  Ya gotta ask yourself why/how there would be so much money and effort spent on this when the supposed end result is the salvation of America's youth?  Well, as we know now - and have for many decades - it IS, as it always is, a case of "follow the money".  The ones we know about for a fact are DuPont (eliminate hemp for rope in place of their nylon), and Hearst (replace hemp for paper by the trees William owned in all those forests he had). 

Who else could possibly benefit from this prohibition of nature??  Well, anyone who wanted to have a bureaucracy and make it survive and grow.  Perhaps an "army" fighting a "war" on drugs?  Bent on setting up a "boogey-man" (reefer addicts from then to now) for the general populace to focus on so they would not look behind the curtain.

So, find the person running for Congress/Senate who has drug law insanity reform as one of their platform planks.  Then vote for that person.  Simple.

I believe the liquor industry also had a hand in it.

Wouldn't surprise me at all - that certainly would make sense....I just haven't heard of any direct evidence...if you got some info, I would love to know it!

I'm pretty sure I heard/saw it on a documentary on either Channel 11 or the History Channel.  It's been a few years ago now.

Besides national police associations, the alcohol industry is the major source of funding to fight reform efforts.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdoMYGRJP_8[/youtube]

There we are then...they know their sales would droop, and we can't have that....

4 Industries Getting Rich Off the Drug War
Several industries owe their profit margins, market shares, and—in some cases—very existence to the war on drugs.
http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/22/4-industries-getting-rich-off-the-drug-w/singlepage

Not to mention the big 20 billion dollar gorilla bureaucracy - the DEA. 

What? You don’t think people would come forward from a cushy government bureaucracy to point out they are a huge drain on the budget and society in general and go sit in the u/e line?   ;D

Won't happen.  That's why they need to be fired!  Legalize pot!   Save $20 billion and reduce a dangerous government bureaucracy!!

The idea.  You have a link for that incident?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM3KqIt3f64[/youtube]

The videos show Detective John K. "J.J." Gray, former Cpl. Harold Wells and Officers Nick DeBruin and Bruce Bonham searching a hotel room during the May 18, 2009, sting. Gray, Bonham and DeBruin are shown pocketing cash that had been placed in the room by the FBI as part of the sting.

Just a thought I read today....


You say pot makes people hungry, stupid, and lazy? 

So you are saying we have had a 40+ year war against hungry, stupid, lazy people and we still can't win it?

I think it's time to throw in the towel.

John Jay Myers, candidate for US Senate, TX


The drug war has led to America being the leader in incarcerations around the world, ahead of China and Iran.  Visible forward progress....not.

Wow, a salient thought coming from Texas.  I guess dogs and cats CAN live together!

Not completely sure about that, but who knows....

Libertarian from TX.  Much of what he says I feel is good stuff.  But then he and many other Libertarians also are in favor of government abdicating many of those responsibilities that I feel are absolutely necessary.


http://johnjaymyers.com/

The war has lead to a thriving corrections business which lobbies hard for stronger sentencing and funding of more correctional facilities.

If we really want to eliminate hungry, stupid, lazy people we could start with people who live mostly off of fast food and QT and are so busy eating their fries while driving that they can't use their turn signals.

Think of all the lost jobs if we had some sanity in the law! 


All the carp about how smoking dope makes you any of those things - yeah, right.  Think Michael Phelps.  Well, he may be hungry all the time given how many calories he burns each day....

Yes, because while Republicans are down with smaller Government, it is on the non-"morals" agencies: EPA, DOE, Education, SEC, OMB, IRS, etc etc, and agencies or funded programs that don't support their agenda, primarily Planned Parenthood and any Arts programs.  We must cut costs at any expense... except when the cutting of costs will interfer with campaign contributions.

Exactly.  Vote accordingly.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/07/medical-marijuana-street-dealing_n_1865418.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laurel-dewey/marijuana-is-not-addictive_b_1739339.html

  http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/6/1/35/

Just what the sane people have been saying since the 60's.

The "big lie" is what DuPont and Hearst used for decades, and the effort renewed up by Nixon with his "war on drugs".  (His actual phrase was "war on drug abuse").  And now we suffer this massive unwarranted government intrusion into people's private lives.  Amazing how that phrase has become so warped and twisted around by the RWRE...

References....


http://www.amazon.com/Hemp-The-Marijuana-Conspiracy-Authoritative/dp/1878125001

http://www.amazon.com/Hemp-The-Marijuana-Conspiracy-Authoritative/dp/1878125001

Former Police Chief Melvin Fisher

(http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w640-6568df4017813e68dbd22a94c1858cf1.jpg)

Free after his suspended 10-year sentence for dealing meth, he is in his own prison.
And you have to wonder why OBNDD makes marijuana a higher priority.

Holy moses

And he would swear to you that he looks good. It's a crazy addiction.

Ahh another successful user of the Jenny Crank diet plan!

This is what a New York blogger I read had to say about good ol Mel's picture.

Eww gross dude. Clean it up. You’re getting your picture taken for f*ck’s sake. Sure it looks like you just opened the Arc of the Convenant and your face is melting like at the end of Indiana Jones, but how about a smile? No seriously what’s this guy’s diet? AIDS? Is he eating 3 squares of AIDS every day? Or did he turn anorexic because his boyfriend in jail called him fat? Both very viable possibilities.

Hey, Melvin...just hurry up and die so someone more worthy can make use of the oxygen you are wasting!!

For which he still appears to have ample access.      Professional connections ... sweet.

I think it was an old Saturday Night Live skit where they introduced the "Slim-Crash" diet.  Very simple - and oh, so effective... 

Diet plan;

A deep breath of air for breakfast.
A deep breath of air and a glass of water for lunch.
A sensible Marlboro cigarette for dinner.

The Police Guide To Marijuana Use:

http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2012/11/09/marijwhatnow-a-guide-to-legal-marijuana-use-in-seattle/

Seriously, it's on a government website (so it's gotta be true).  ;D

Spoiler alert: No, you can't get your pot back if it was previously seized.

NOT FAIR!!

Five ounces a month?  That's beyond stoned.

Gee. I can't remember how much me and my "Buds" would smoke a month. But that's probably right on target.

"would" smoke? Come now.... :o

State Sen. Brian Crain, R-Tulsa, derails a proposed study on marijuana law reform, saying his decision not to allow the study was based on the Oklahoma Constitution and the U.S. Constitution.
"I don't know how we can proceed ... as the federal law says the legalization of medical marijuana is against the law," Crain said.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20121129_11_A1_ULNSdo813611

He just has unshakable respect for federal laws, like the Affordable Care Act.

Ok, Ok. "Could" smoke.

Let's go present tense: "can"... k?

Nobody needs to feel scorned for staying current..... :o

In other marijuana-related developments today, Patricia Spottedcrow finally got justice and was released from prison.

Crazy

Nope I can't say that. 1990 was my last year of the cannabis sativa. But if it helps people with illness relief. I'm all for it.

Well then, you need to indulge. Medically speaking, it might make you kinder. ;D

We know she was in because of that name. Oh, the fact she had no good lawyer was covering for Mom might be pertinent.

I hope this is a lesson for all those woman stoners out there!

I hope it's a lesson to our legislature what an expensive tragedy the war on drugs is.

Too many lobbyists from prisons for hire and alcohol producers.  (a guess)

There's nothing fiscally conservative about it, that's for damn sure.

It would be a good guess.  Might be interesting to look at Sen. Crain's donors:
http://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal

While it's hardly astonishing that the corporate beer lobby would oppose efforts to legalize marijuana, a non-toxic, ostensibly safer alternative to alcohol, it is surprising to see how quickly the law enforcement lobby -- to date the largest supporters of Public Safety First, -- is willing to get into bed with big booze.
http://www.alternet.org/story/148213/alcohol_lobby_now_openly_spending_against_ca%27s_legal_pot_initiative_in_alliance_with_police_industrial_complex


Also found this while poking around:

Former U.S. Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.), once a fierce critic of drug legalization, has taken sides with the Marijuana Policy Project (MPP), which advocates for medical marijuana and other drug-law reforms.

The Cox News Service reported March 30 that Barr, whom the Libertarian Party once called the “worst drug warrior” during his eight years in Congress, is now working to repeal the “Barr Amendment” — legislation he introduced in 1999 to prevent the legalization of medical marijuana in the District of Colombia.

Barr did not comment on taking the MPP job, but said he had left the Republican Party because of its move “toward big government and disregard toward privacy and civil liberties.”

“In light of the tremendous growth of government power since 9/11, it has forced me and other conservatives to go back and take a renewed look at how big and powerful we want the government to be in people's lives,” Barr said.

I suspect Bob finally tried a big fattie at a party and realized what he'd been missing.

Or a family member was diagnosed with cancer.

And who keeps electing these reactionary sellouts??  It sure ain't me...for at least 4o+ years.

Very close sister-in-law going through this now and she has lost about 50 lbs part way through the fight.  Nauseous ALL the time - everything in comes right back out.  Our medieval laws are literally mandating torture upon sick people to prohibit the use of something that by all indications provides significant relief to not only the nausea, but actually stimulates appetite - those famous munchies we all hear about.  She could use some food right about now...  

She is not the first I have known go through this - there have been too many others, just as close, over the years.  Hers is the situation that has become my "straw on the camel's back" to take me to a whole other place - a place I have never dreamed I could get to...

After spending my entire life hoping that no one ever has to go through this, I have finally now reached the point that I do hope that each of these a$$ wipes that pushes against marijuana so hard actually DOES have someone very close and special to them go through this.  And soon.  I have reached the point where I feel they deserve the experience.  They have earned it through the suffering of millions of others.  And to be even more clear - I absolutely do NOT want THEM to go through it - I want those closest to them to go through it, so they can experience the true full experience without distraction.

I'd like to make a case against it. We have enough problems with legal alcohol, adding MJ will make it worse,  we don't need more people on the streets with altered minds on top of all the people using alcohol. Making MJ legal is a stepping stone for making other drugs legal. I vote against it..

Why don't we outlaw pain meds while we're at it? After all, why should people who just had surgery get relief? They might end up on the streets with altered minds. People certainly should die so you aren't made uncomfortable.

Remember who you're replying to, Nate...

It is hard to smoke sauerkraut. It fits in the pipe nicely, but is usually too wet to catch fire well.

"We can discretely supply your loved one with the need for as long as necessary, but in exchange we will want some favors that your position can facilitate."

You don't smoke the sauerkraut, Michael.  You smoke some sausage and then add it to the sauerkraut.

Now I'm hungry for kielbasa and sauerkraut.  That didn't take long.

So when they say sausage roll, they really mean rolling papers?

You have proven yourself to have an altered mind, so that vote doesn't count.

Wouldn't that require the mind to exist for alterations?

Ahhhhh....therein lies the rub.  I am not a 0.1%er.  I have no position that would be of any significance in granting favors.  If I did, it would already not be a problem, would it?

I softened my reply dramatically from the original to take into account the fact that it would be a "fight" with an unarmed man....

Plus the fact that I have lost any and all sense of humor on the topic, and accordingly any sense and exercise of proportion on this issue.

You have to admire how they manage to put it into perspective:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-december-5-2012/old-tokes-home

Buffet!!!!

I like to travel, too!  Yeah, we just don't have enough perspective or view of the bigger picture in this country.  Plus, marijuana won't plug you up like narcotic pain relievers do!!  Especially if taken in their 'high fiber' form - brownies!!  A constant concern of the elderly!

Sorry I'm against making MJ legal so I don't have a case to support it.

But you left out it affects and alters the brain much more than smoking does. Studies have shown that long term MJ use makes you less alert and you don't perform as well on skill testing, MJ makes you less smart in other words.

I'm guessing there's not much room for....nevermind.

Baloney.

Where's this study? Or is it based on a few fake surveys from the 1990's?

Come visit again after you have had a while to deal with a loved one suffering with cancer or MS.

Your stand against it is just another excellent point making the case for it!!  Given you past stance and comments on just about everything else....

Still blathering what they taught you in elementary school and what they showed you in the movie "Reefer Madness".  All, or course, nonsense.  See note above....

I thought part of the federal War On Drugs precluded any studies of potential benefits of any Schedule 1 drugs.  That puts THC - the active part of cannabis - in the same category as heroin.  If any peer-reviewed studies exist, I'd like to see a link to them.

Was it FOTD or Aox who was our first advocate here for medical purposes and decrim and legalization? ;D

Seriously, we should get out ahead of the curve on this issue. Already prepared documentation exists for medical marijuana in the state crapitoll. What odds of that happening? And then there's the voters... But shouldn't it just be legalized and regulated on the Federal level? Two years from now will be the window of opportunity.

There's a national chain called Ziggyz that now has 4 locations in the city. Buy futures. They're going to be sitting in the cat nip seat. Short prison corps.... oh, encourage a Brady or Blue Dome location.

Just as Colorado and Washington will out recruit college football players in the coming years, young talent will move to the areas of the country where they aren't hassled for what they do in the privacy of their own homes.

Are you suffering from unknown cause of memory loss?   ;D

Not as long as we are "fighting a war on drugs" like this:

"A system for sentencing guidelines for federal offenders which directs someone like Officer Brandon McFadden to receive self-surrender, 20 months for dealing 26 kilos of methamphetamine, and to keep his $400,000 house, which was undoubtedly built in part with drug money, demonstrates again the accuracy of the often repeated claim that the law is an a$s"
--  Attorney Stephen Jones

Not that this will fly any time soon...

Oklahoma Senate to review state's medicinal marijuana policy, penalty

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws)

The Rogers County attention grabber opposes it not on the grounds that its some form of evil, but rather that people would have better access to it.

Someone obtaining it from legal commercial means, is worse than clandestine encounters with shady characters?
Seems to say a lot about their economy.  ;)

I got an email from an acquaintance up in Nederland, Colorado.

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.

Who said dope doesn't make you stupid?

Which means their hours will be cut to below 30 hours a week.

You seem to be knowledgeable about this.....

More likely pissed that the margins will decline due to the reduced risk of adverse outcomes from cultivation and sale.  Local enforcement has always been the big risk, so if that is gone, it is just a crap shoot if the Feds would get you.  No extra risk...no reason for huge profit margins.

We are already seeing the reduction in illicit profits for decriminalized/legalized marijuana.  No more Mexican drug lords - who is gonna import expensive foreign mj if there is just as good available here at half price or less!  Instead de-emphasis of the drug cartels.  Now, on to coke and meth....

How much more does it take before reality reaches the Fed level?

Growers in Colorado are licensed and closely monitored. The system is regulated to the point that conservatives might even become believers in operations under government control. 

Given the number of local law makers/enforcers that believe federal law is optional (at least when it comes to guns and health insurance) a Fed epiphany might happen quicker than we might have believed possible.  Certainly within our lifetimes.

On a more local level, the enforcement mindset is also in need of a serious re-boot. 
Deputy Dangle will be counting on WOD grants and overtime to help get little Debbie her braces, while his boss depends on a little brown bag of cash left under the big rock way yonder to pay off his casino debt. 
Perhaps the only way to deal with their resistance to a change in the status quo (and the money flow) is to pay good cops what they are worth.

Just yesterday, however, an appeals court refused to reconsider the federal rule that classifies marijuana as more dangerous than methamphetamine, but that's just a bump in the road in our long journey out of the dark ages.

When Google or Verizon (for example) dont hesitate at seriously expanding in Oklahoma, we will know we are on the right path.


 

I used to believe that stuff about "within our lifetimes".... 45 years ago.  No more.  Neither I, nor you will live long enough to see the powers that be voluntarily give up the cash flow created by illicit marijuana.  (I am still a little bit surprised that the US repealed prohibition!)

As for paying good cops what they are worth...whew!  What a can of worms that one is.  But the principle also applies to firemen, teachers, etc.  And the institutionalized resistance we see to that concept is pretty well gonna guarantee it can't happen.  See the posts on Fallin's tax cuts....apply liberally.

I used to believe this as well. But seeing voters in Washington and Colorado pass initiatives and their states seeing tourism dollars made me reconsider. Then seeing Pat Robertson flip and talk about medical marijuana made me sit up and pay attention. Medical treatments go in cycles and homeopathic and natural solutions are really fashionable right now.

You are right. It is really all about cash. But once some state shows it to be revenue positive, the game will change.

You've seen how slowly Oklahoma tends to act in regards to progression.

This is at the Federal level, though.  Obama has been about as "liberal" as I have ever heard a President be, and he says it isn't a priority with him.  Which is a king-dog, major fail!  (To decriminalize mj)

Saving $20 billion a year in Federal enforcement.  Saving how many billions nationwide for incarceration costs.  Saving how many lives - a few here and many more across the border for just stopping enforcement of mj importation.  

I have a feeling that mj cross border movement is the real monetary driver for the drug cartels...just a gut feeling kind of thing based on the relative volume of useage and kinds of dollars the news is always hawking about as the money involved.  If there is $800 billion in mj, and $30 billion in cocaine and heroin, then the driver is mj.  (Anyone have some good numbers on the relative annual values??).  That means that the criminal organizations would shrink dramatically, the amount per person involved in trafficing would go down - quite possibly to pretty much nothing.  If someone is making $50,000 a week selling mj and legally, it goes to $50 a week...or less, the activity cannot be supported.  Nobody will be "selling" high dollar mj.  And if all those dealers turn to the other drugs, well, there is a limited market, spread across relatively more suppliers.  Price competition, fewer suppliers, collapse of the industry possibly?  Harvard School of Business 101.

Get the profits OUT of illicit drugs and the business will fail!  By definition.

The old-school train of thought is that seizure and forfeiture of "drug profits" would accomplish that, but it is self-serving and just fuels corruption.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM3KqIt3f64

Its also unduly hard on off-the grid country folk that don't trust banks and always carry cash, sometimes loosing their life savings because a drug dog picked up on the traces commonly found on paper currency. 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/31/drug-search-trekies-stopped-searched-illinois_n_1364087.html

The idea of the Mexican Cartels going belly up because no one needs their products anymore... they may have to change their business model to peddling donkey porn just to survive once that happens.

(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/555437_585579198122722_613999819_n.jpg)

By the time Okiehoma gets around to this issue, the thrill will be gone....or we'll all be dead whatever comes first.

Only that you should never believe the value you're told on the news. If I had had to pay those prices when I was just leaving high school I would have starved to death.

We all know that if you couldn't grow you're own Marijuana that it would be legal and sold everywhere, like yesterday.
But there is no way that the GubMint will ever cut out the middle man. Even with huge profits from taxation on every pack sold. They want every last penny from anything grown and if that can't happen. The horror stories will continue about the use and abuse. And people will still be incarcerated for years at a rediculous cost to every State and the Country.

Unless we quit electing people like Inhofe....over and over again.

While "the news" arent the ones making those numbers up, they are the ones too lazy to go out and do some unbiased research.

Is it just me, or is Ke$ha actually Ann Coulter...??
I mean, yeah, she does look younger than Ann, but there is also a lot of makeup involved.  Just seems too close to be a coincidence...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOubzHCUt48

I'm against it. We don't need more people with altered brains on the streets. We have enough problems with alcohol as it is, we don't need legal MJ on top of that... No way.

Because everyone who has ever used alcohol is a reprobate lush. 

Think responsibly  ;D

Here dickhead, take a hit! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/11/vaportini-alcohol-vaporizer_n_2458038.html

Again...just showing off what you don't know...

HOLY SMOKIES! RUN THIS UP THE FLAG POLE!

Keep in mind, I'm a proponent of such legislation even though I won't be partaking.  True fiscal conservatives should laud this legislation as long past due.  We waste billions every year policing, prosecuting, and warehousing people for a drug which is far less deleterious to society than alcohol.

I still could not pass the opportunity for a clever re-write:

Conan,
That was great!!

This doesn't help the case for legalization.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281102/Drivers-stoned-road-test-evaluate-Washingtons-marijuana-DUI-laws-entertaining-video.html

Meh...

I have many friends and friends of docs who will not seek a script because of this: http://www.wbur.org/2013/02/19/marijuana-laws

One potential scenario: A doctor who becomes a medical marijuana patient would be at “significant risk” of violating his or her license to practice medicine, according to Bill Ryder, legislative and regulatory counsel for the Massachusetts Medical Society.

Come on Feds...follow suit in the states rights cause. We know it's hard with all those state whacko's on the extreme right trying to be revolutionaries and take over our culture from the bottom up. Let it go Federalies! The fight is on!

You're not supposed to be driving on medical marijuana (or any prescription painkillers) so this shouldn't matter.

So basically they found out that if you get so stoned you don't really want to drive you can't drive, unless you're a habitual user in which case you apparently can drive OK. And even if you're not, you've gotta smoke a gram of some of the most potent marijuana in existence inside of an hour or two to get stoned enough to be visibly impaired. TV news is awesome.

The Daily Mail is awesome, too, completely misrepresenting the text of the story in the lede.

If you can't believe the insurance industry, who can you trust?  They say that stoned drivers have fewer accidents...

One study by the U.S. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration shows that drivers with THC in their systems have accident responsibility rates lower than those of drug-free drivers.

http://www.4autoinsurancequote.com/uncategorized/reasons-why-marijuana-users-are-safe-drivers/


And as always, Sauerkraut is wrong.

Nah, not always.

It's tasty on Brätwurst.

 ;D

Meanwhile, the lost war wages on...

A 65-year-old woman recently came under suspicion for having a Buckeye leaf decal on her car.  The cops mistook it for a marijuana symbol.
“It’s just amazing they would be that dumb,”  Bonnie Jonas-Boggioni said.

She lives in Plano, Texas, but she grew up in Columbus and is known as a lifelong Buckeyes fan.
She has served as president of the Ohio State Alumni Club in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

On Feb. 4, Jonas-Boggioni and husband Guido Boggioni, 66, were driving home to Plano after a trip to Columbus to attend the funeral of his mother, Eleanor, 92.
They were in the westbound lanes of I-40, a few miles east of Memphis, when a black police SUV with flashing lights pulled them over, Jonas-Boggioni said. A second black SUV soon pulled up behind the first one.
“Knowing I wasn’t speeding, I couldn’t imagine why,” she said.

Two officers approached, one on each side of the car.
“They were very serious,” she said. “They had the body armor and the guns.”

“What are you doing with a marijuana sticker on your bumper?” he asked her.
She explained that it is actually a Buckeye leaf decal, just like the ones that Ohio State players are given to put on their helmets to mark good plays.

“He looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language,” she said.

The officer then explained that someone from outside his jurisdiction — apparently another officer — had spotted the leaf sticker and thought it might indicate that the car was carrying marijuana, Jonas-Boggioni said.
She was too rattled to notice what police department the officers represented. But she suspects that a joint drug-interdiction effort was under way because they had passed several law-enforcement vehicles from different agencies.

Neither the Tennessee Highway Patrol nor the Shelby County sheriff’s office in Memphis had information about the traffic stop. A marijuana sticker would not be a sufficient reason to stop a car, said a spokeswoman for the West Tennessee Drug Task Force.

Before they let her go on her way, the officers advised Jonas-Boggioni to remove the decal from her car.
“I said, ‘You mean in Tennessee?’ and he said, ‘No, permanently.’

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/life_and_entertainment/2013/02/14/buckeye-leaf-mistaken-by-police-out-of-state.html

Or corned beef or pastrami........  :D

Thats hilarious Patric. The Police might want to do a "compliance" check over at Starship and other Head Shops around town. Since them stickers might lead to more traffic stops.  ::)

Except the website you sourced is not an "insurance industry" web site.  It's nothing more than a commercial solicitation site for car insurance quotes. There are multiple problems with this "report".  Some "studies" cited are now 30 years old, there is no bibliography of all these other studies, and we have no idea if the Dutch authority listed is actually a scientific or governmental authority.  If NHTSA ever actually did agree that pot improves driving performance, that is no longer their position on it, according to information I sourced directly from NHTSA below.

I'm only bringing this up because there's a good lesson here about how much crap circles the internet with very little to corroborate what they claim.  That problem has a lot to do with the half truths, hyperbole, and outright lies in the political sphere that help widen the political divide in this country, but I digress.  There are probably nuggets of truth scattered around the report you cited, but there is also a lot of un-named sources for the author's conclusions.  From personal experience, I can honestly say smoking pot while snow skiing made me feel much more focused but I have no empirical evidence to back that up, only stoned recollection.

This is the official word on what the National Highway Safety Transportation Board says.  Noted the bibliography with referenced reports at the end.



Related information from NHTSA:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/People/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm

I would not think a headshop would want to sell a buckeyes decal.  What would that be, the "K-2" of bumberstickers?

http://www.ksn.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=3947794

Senate panel kills medical marijuana bill

http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1503758629/Oklahoma-Senate-panel-kills-medical-marijuana-bill (http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1503758629/Oklahoma-Senate-panel-kills-medical-marijuana-bill)

So Republicans dont get cancer?
I didnt know that was what it was all about.  :(

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/justice-department-poised-respond-states-legalized-marijuana-100308025--election.html

so it really begins....


I read about our councilors attempting to take control of the city's marketing efforts from our deeply bedded duplicitous chamber in Warren's World today. Then I saw this article on Yahoo.

Poor Tulsa. They will never get in front of the curve....the rest the country is so much more appealing.

I got a contact buzz just from looking at the image connected to the story.

(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/AnnVQYcW_z_SXWg_uXLY2A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NQ--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/theticket/98543789.jpg)

Reduced marijuana penalties OK’d by Oklahoma panel

http://newsok.com/reduced-marijuana-penalties-okd-by-oklahoma-panel/article/3759545 (http://newsok.com/reduced-marijuana-penalties-okd-by-oklahoma-panel/article/3759545)

Illinois Medical Marijuana House Committee Vote: Panel OKs Pot Plan
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/07/illinois-medical-marijuana-house_n_2828463.html

U.S. States Race to Put New Medical Marijuana Laws on the Books
http://www.counselheal.com/articles/4258/20130307/u-s-states-race-put-new-medical-marijuana-laws-books.htm

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/04/04/poll-majority-supports-legalizing-marijuana/

The opiate of the people...all because of George W. Bush. :D

What kind of terminal brain cancer doesn't kill you in 7 years??  Just curious... makes me kind of think that life is a terminal disease.....oh, wait....

I would never defend someone driving under the influence, but this Draconian measure goes way too far:

Agreed. Metabolites can be in the system for days and even a few weeks, IIRC.

Just another example of Fallin failin'.  Yeah,... we're gonna attract the top job creators in the world today....

Steve Jobs would have never made it here.

I'll make the case against legal MJ ~the drug is mind altering and we don't need any more people in public with altered brains we have enough problems  with alcohol and illegal drug use as it is without making MJ legal. The drug stays in your body for a full month. That heavy equipment operator in PA who knocked down that building and killed 6 people was on MJ. Do we want people at work running machines and equipment on drugs? I'm against legal MJ or any drugs. Get high on life not drugs. The only reason for MJ is to alter your brain and thinking process. However, I do think the laws for drug use are crazy and don't fit the crime. Giving someone 25 years for drug crimes is nuts, save that space for criminals. BTW, many criminals use drugs.

I used to get high on life, then I built up a tolerance. Now it takes a week for me to seize the day.

You must be getting old (too ;D).

You are making a case for alcohol prohibition.
It was tried, and failed.

Just post a face palm pic, Patric, that's all that's warranted in this case.

I was just gonna post the fact that your entire post is idiotic....but that would be redundant.  Is this an admission of what is going on with you?...too much marijuana??

And Conan got it right...considered yourself quadruple face palmed!

Perhaps.  Im just curious as to the demographic of people that believe that garbage.
Orwell describes them as "slogan swallowers" in Nineteen Eighty-Four (a book that desperately needs to be put back on the required reading list)

Gupta's comments are one of those "blah, blah, blah, blah..." moments.  The information has been available for decades, including the history of exactly why it was proscribed.  DuPont and Hearst being two main drivers of the effort.  So any repentant conversion at this point is welcomed, but I look at it with an extremely jaded eye - why wait until now to come to his senses?

Wonder if there is some effort to stir up controversy for his documentary...make a few extra rating points so the commercials will be more valuable?  No, I didn't think so...no one would ever be motivated by money on this topic!

I guess we will see just how sincere this conversion is by how fervently he embraces the efforts to legalize the stuff.  Keeping in mind, there is none so pious as a repentant sinner!


I just love when I get to use a little sarcasm!!

http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x738624265/OKLAHOMA-WATCH-Enforcement-efforts-boost-pot-busts

Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., told attendees of a Tucson town hall meeting Thursday that the United States might want to legalize marijuana.

McCain made the relatively unprompted call for drug policy reform when an attendee asked why the U.S. should intervene in Syria's civil war, but not in Mexico, where drug cartels are locked in a deadly conflict with the government and each other.

The 2008 GOP presidential nominee then launched into a lesson about economics to explain drug smuggling and said he was open to legalizing marijuana.

"Let me just say what's going on in Mexico, in my view, to some degree, is our responsibility... because we're creating a demand for drugs in this country and when there's a demand, there's going to be a supply," McCain said.

"Legalize it!" some crowd members mumbled.

"Well, maybe we should legalize it," he responded, "we are certainly moving that way so far as marijuana is concerned, but I will respect the will of the people."

He then hammered home his economic explanation of drug smuggling, saying: "They are bringing these drugs across to our country because there's a demand for them and there's going to be a supply wherever there is a demand."
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2013/09/06/watch-mccain-says-maybe-we-should-legalize-marijuana-cites-economics-and-mexican-cartels

(http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/Gordon20024/42e731bd-f4ab-4136-8d1d-0cbd5c81e7a1_zps4eb89e9c.jpg)

http://www.azcentral.com/opinions/articles/20131123medical-pot-arizona-mecagni.html

Editor's note: Dan Riffle is a former assistant prosecutor and the director of federal policies at the Marijuana Policy Project, the primary financial backer of the 2012 campaign to regulate marijuana in Colorado.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/opinion/riffle-marijuana-safety/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/12/27/legalizing-pot-could-save-california-hundreds-of-millions-every-year-state-says/


Legalizing pot could save California hundreds of millions every year, state says

---

A proposed ballot measure that would legalize possession, use, growth and cultivation of marijuana would save the state of California hundreds of millions of dollars a year, according to a summary issued Thursday by the state attorney general’s office.

The summary [pdf], which Attorney General Kamala Harris’s (D) office releases for each proposed ballot measure, says the state would save “in the low hundreds of millions of dollars annually” on law enforcement costs associated with enforcing marijuana laws.

As an added bonus, Harris’s office said sales tax revenues could add more cash — again, in the “low hundreds of millions of dollars annually” — to the state’s bottom line.

Supporters of the proposed ballot measure would need to collect 504,760 signatures by May 23 to get the initiative — formally known by its ballot title, “Marijuana Legalization. Initiative Statute” — on the 2014 ballot.

The group backing legalization won’t actually be collecting signatures for this version of the bill; the lead sponsor told the San Francisco Chronicle that they had tweaked the initiative’s language to allow individuals to grow more marijuana for personal use. A revised version [pdf] of the ballot initiative, dubbed the “Marijuana Control, Legalization and Revenue Act of 2014,” is scheduled to be reviewed by the attorney general’s office by the end of January, the Chronicle reported.

Both versions of the measure would legalize the use, growth, cultivation, possession, transportation, storage and sale of marijuana, while creating a commission to regulate and issue business licenses for cultivation and sales.

The measure would apply retail sales taxes to marijuana sold for recreational purposes, while allocating that money equally to education, health care, law enforcement and drug abuse programs. It also prevents state and local law enforcement officials from enforcing federal marijuana laws.

Some California officials who back marijuana legalization had urged fellow supporters to wait until 2016, when the electorate will be larger, younger and more ethnically diverse, to put a measure on the fall ballot. But the ballot summary is so favorable that strategists think they will be able to pass the measure even in the lower-turnout midterm year.

California has been in the vanguard of the pro-marijuana movement. The state was the first in the country to legalize the possession and use of marijuana for medical purposes, back in 1996. In 2010, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) signed legislation decriminalizing possession of an ounce or less.

If the ballot measure passes, California would be the third state to legalize marijuana, along with Washington and Colorado, where voters legalized the drug through ballot measures this year.

In Oklahoma, that money instead goes into the pockets of the privileged and corrupt.
 
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/06/cnn-poll-support-for-legal-marijuana-soaring

"Attitudes toward the effects of marijuana and whether it is morally wrong to smoke pot have changed dramatically over time. That also means that marijuana use is just not all that important to Americans any longer."

Amazing the claims opponents make about MJ- "it contains many carcinogens", "it’s a gateway drug”, “it leads to decreased motivation and productivity”, “it’s addictive" etc.

More people who eventually abuse prescription drugs likely started out drinking rather than with pot.  Tobacco and alcohol, which are perfectly legal, are known to cause many different cancers and debilitating diseases.  Hang overs cause loss of productivity and decreased motivation.  Regular pot smoking can lead to an emotional addiction, however there is no evidence that the body becomes physically addicted like it does to alcohol or tobacco.

Prohibition of marijuana has been a much bigger failure than prohibition of alcohol ever was.  Consider all the money wasted incarcerating people over pot and enforcing laws written nearly 100 years ago based on misinformation and fear, not to mention the loss of life in drug wars which would not exist if pot were legal.

I believe breast milk is a gateway drug to alcohol.

Nancy Grace would like you to know that you must be fat and lazy, sitting on the sofa eating potato chips since you disagree with her.

Does Nancy Grace still run her law office out of a double-wide?
...or was that her suicide hotline?

That explains a whole lot of things....!!

Guess I never was properly weaned....

Can anyone actually stand to listen to that voice??  That would be the torture that would break me and make me talk...then would have to put a bullet through my head if had to listen to that.

Gee Nate, thanks for wrecking the thread with this image:

(http://blogs.ajc.com/view-from-cop/files/2010/09/nancygrace.jpg)

Now where did I leave my bag of Nacho Cheese Doritos?

We aim to please!  ;D

Making it legal may a good thing for these states, and maybe more states until there is a national reform, but it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of employers that drug test as a pre-hire, random test, or test after an incident still consider it a banned substance, and I doubt the employers in these states that are national employers are going to give residents in Washington and Colorado a pass while enforcing it in other states.

Yes, I know alcohol is part of the screening process, and also now employers are using hair samples to check for drugs and nicotine as part of the screening process.

You see (and point out) one of the problems with the shift in power from a stronger Federal government to the "Laissez Faire" approach Fox News would want us to take...they advocate Laissez Faire ONLY for big business, though.  Keep the Feds out of business and let them do as they please.

Add another:

ALBANY, N.Y.—Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday he would move to make medical marijuana available to patients with serious illnesses, making New York the latest state to ease restrictions on the drug.

Currently, 21 states and the District of Columbia allow the use of marijuana for certain medical purposes.



“I’m an unlikely champion for this cause,” said Georgia Rep. Allen Peake, a businessman from Macon who attended the evangelical Dallas Theological Seminary. “Once people realize it’s not a 6-year-old smoking a joint, most folks realize this is the compassionate thing to do.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/medical-marijuana-gains-traction-in-the-deep-south/2014/02/09/f0720630-919f-11e3-97d3-f7da321f6f33_story.html

It willl be interesting how this plays out over the next couple of years. From an article in HuffPo, they sold $5million in the first week, and their projection is that the state will bring in an estimated $70mil in taxes the first year. (enough to cover the tax incentives for three Macy's DC's) I'll bet that tax revenue will decline after the newness wears off, and the possibility of other states making recreational use legal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/08/marijuana-sales-colorado_n_4552371.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/08/marijuana-sales-colorado_n_4552371.html)

I have been in favor of legalize, regulate from seed to sale, and tax marijuana since I was in high school in the late 70's, back when it was one of the biggest cash crops in OK.

My thought on the whole thing is that as long as it remains a class one narcotic at the federal level, it is by law a controlled substance, and if the fed is going to turn a blind eye to states legalizing the recreational sale, they need to get off their collective butts and change it's status.

Employers are going to have to wrestle with how to handle it, and as I said previously, I bet national companies, Home Depot, Lowes, department stores etc, will continue to say that it is part of their drug screening process for employees and any positive test can lead to termination regardless of state law.

Personally I haven't in 30+ years, because I realized my lively hood was more important.

Maybe this is the time to change it, I think that it's long overdue.

...But it's the #1 concern of the state narcos:

Mark Woodward, with the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics, said, “I’ve seen it wreck more lives than any other drug.”
http://kfor.com/2014/01/20/senator-pushes-for-legalization-of-marijuana

OK, thats a pretty insulated existence.  Time to get out of the gated community and see how many schools and roads really need their funding back.

Does Woodward realize alcohol is a drug?  That’s wrecked more lives than any other.

Probably not, and he will also tell you the same the next time he's mildly smootfaced at his own cocktail party.

Nancy Grace debates.....Nancy Grace?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRb_t053SQ[/youtube]

“She took six hundred peeeeels!”

Nancy Grace after Anna Nicole self immolated.

#winning


As for former prosecutor Nancy Grace...

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/nancy-grace/n45301/

and the smoking (ahem) gun:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Bqob-weFk[/youtube]

I think Mason’s choice in munchies must be Twinkies

Medical marijuana now used for pediatric epilepsy

http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=4931293

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Medical-marijuana-now-used-for-pediatric-epilepsy/5AXv4FJKZkKppTX10nae7g.cspx

http://www.normantranscript.com/new/x1783667790/Senator-announces-new-nonpartisan-alliance-to-reform-marijuana-policy-in-Oklahoma

Just decriminalize it altogether and skip the backdoor approach with medical MJ.

Im willing to wait and see if we have the maturity to show compassion to suffering children.

It's just another lie - he is obviously a dealer in such...

He was on fox23 saying how he's seen it destroy families, but he sidestepped whether that was the drug or the enforcement.
Gov. Failin was at the same gig not wanting the kids driving high, and mumbling about gateway drug yadda yadda.

Within two years, this could all be a punchline in a sad joke:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/marijuana-rally-and-lobby-day-draws-patients-supporters-to-oklahoma/article_cb1eb9d1-54e5-500d-9428-384264f64961.html

According to the poll, 89% of New Yorkers support making medical marijuana legal, and 57% favor the legalization of recreational marijuana
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/poll-support-legal-marijuana-gaining-new-york-state-article-1.1617325

Washington DC Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession
http://www.voanews.com/content/washington-dc-city-council-decriminalizes-marijuana-possession/1864280.html

Color me old fashioned, but I'm totally against making any mind altering drug legal, we have enough problems with drunk drivers and alcohol, we don't need to add to that list by making MJ legal. The chemicals in MJ can linger in the body over 4 weeks after it's last used, it will still show up on a drug test. We have enough people on the streets with altered brains as it is by using illegal drugs and alcohol clouding the brain--- So do we really want to add to that list? Funny to, they are banning tobbacco all over the place and it seems some people want to replace tobacco use with pot use, that makes alot of sense.

Research at the University of York and Hull York Medical School has found a connection between depression and low levels of folate (folate comes from leafy vegetables, beans, cereal and sunflower seeds).  Dr. Simon Gilbody and his research team examined 11 previous studies involving 15,315 subjects to come to their conclusion.

These items all are mind-altering. I say ban them too.

It's more about personal liberty and responsibility.  I thought you were big on both those RWRE concepts..??  What happened to unwarranted government intrusion in people's lives?  You of all people, according to your past tendencies and expressed opinions should be in favor of legalization if for no other reason than the government butting into other's business!

And in another particular, it's more about since you seem to believe "We have enough people on the streets with altered brains as it is by using illegal drugs and alcohol clouding the brain" - your words!  Why compound the stupidity by spending tens of billions a year in our hard earned taxpayer money to prosecute and incarcerate the mj smokers?  It has been absolutely obvious even to the most insular - or should be if they had a brain - that mj usage has no adverse effect on either individuals or society, as compared to the impacts of cigarettes and alcohol.  Or even compared to the very real, documented dangers of bathtubs!  So why penalize people who just want to catch a buzz and mellow out with a bag of Doritos and watch some tv?

Oh, carp!  You just ruined my day - I love sunflower seeds!

Only two days after the  City Council in D.C. voted to decriminalize marijuana (http://"http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/dc-council-votes-decriminalize-some-marijuana-use"), the Tulsa City Council is taking public comments on doing something similar.  
Hopefully it wont all be from the for-profit prison industry.

3/6/2014 6:00 PM 175 E. 2nd St., Tulsa, OK 74103
Council Chamber, 2nd Floor

11. HEARING OF PUBLIC COMMENTS
   b.    Public comment calling for council resolution urging the state legislature to recognize marijuana for medicinal purposes. 14-193-1
   

http://www.tulsacouncil.org/inc/search/meeting_detail.php?id=YWXNRYAV115201391436

Let’s hope the patchouli parade doesn’t show up with bags of Doritos.

Ooohhhh.....good idea!!  Doritos!!   And I have some Cheetos, too!!  Yay!!

Oh, one small detail:  If you want public comments, invite the public.

And Paul Tay has entered the Fray. He actually went to the meeting in Camouflage Fatigues and sporting a NRA Camo hat. Fox 23 just couldn't help but put him on the air.

Not sure if he was the best representation of the Biking community. Or if Spandex Biker Fox would have pulled more weight when it comes to lobbying for Medical Doobies.  ::)

Paul Tay never helps a cause.

When you "solicit" public comments but dont actually inform the public of that, the result tends to be skewed towards those that just show up for meetings in general.  It was a squandered opportunity for not only the council, but for the media who either focused on distractions or missed the boat altogether.

Who could have been a better face for medical marijuana?

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/8dc3b87e92d36ab942bd5d00cfe7a74b/tumblr_mzt3wjvCpy1sr52l8o1_500.jpg)
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/48/b48dc196-07b6-598a-9f39-3e3b846cb57a/52e4c147850ec.image.jpg)
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/medical-marijuana-brings-oklahoma-families-to-colorado-to-treat-kids/article_e5eeb610-85de-52b9-a4f2-37a9e42b9737.html

How about instead of a backdoor approach where people simply line up to get cards that claim they have anxiety only treatable by MJ, we simply decriminalize it?

Obviously big pharma is afraid of losing revenue otherwise the FDA would clear the way nationally for medical MJ if there truly is medicinal benefit.  I’d think there must be un-told billions of dollars just laying there waiting for pharmaceutical companies to either extract THC or synthesize it for all sorts of beneficial treatments.

I don’t think private corrections companies are the sole movement against legal MJ.  Think about how many people are currently locked up for possession or using drugs currently allowed by the FDA.

Because politicians are still buying into/exploiting 1920's scare tactics?

'The Oklahoma State Bureau of Narcotics hopes the bill does not make it through the legislature. In fact, Woodward says marijuana is a dangerous drug. He says while a person can take a drink of alcohol and not get drunk, marijuana always causes a person to become impaired. "Everyone who smokes marijuana gets intoxicated, becomes high off of it and becomes a safety risk.”'

...so not only does that put OBNDD in conflict with ABLE, its another example of how the status quo bewilders people with misinformation.
Canibis Oil is often consumed with food, rather than smoked.  Cannibidiol (CBD) is a non-psychoactive component of marijuana that possesses a wide range of therapeutic benefits.
http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-medical-marijuana/2013/11/cannabidiol-the-side-of-marijuana-you-dont-know/



It's not just the unwillingness of Big Pharma and the prison industry to tweak their profit models;
corporate money from Anheuser-Busch and Big Alcohol also find their way to police grants and media campaigns.

"We are reaching a critical mass. Enough states have passed medical marijuana laws that state legislators can say, 'Well, this many states have passed it, so it can't be that disastrous.'"
http://www.fox23.com/mostpopular/story/Medical-Marijuana-State-Action-in-2014/9UFRBG6kOkWJs1UbpIvzdQ.cspx

It'll never fly in Oklahoma,  Wilbur, 'cause it's a gateway drug to voting a straight Democratic ticket, opening our borders to furriners, and possibly engaging in alternative lifestyles.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk

Gov. would write executive order legalizing Medical Marijuana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWySlx_XZLI

..or lie to parents of sick children.

Election's coming.  She's going to lie

You know she won't do the correct thing.  (She will, however, always do the Radical Reactionary Right thing....)


And this state keeps on electing her and her ilk...  T. W. Shannon, Jim Inhofe, Sally Kern..... those ilk!!

Despite the big shift in Americans attitudes towards legalization, the old guard is still well represented.

Take the story this week about the housewife who was shot by her hallucinating husband in the 13th minute of a 911 call.
All the blame was put on the husband eating a marijuana edible candy he legally purchased, but most media outlets ignored the handful of prescription narcotic painkillers he had also taken.

Oklahoma Initiative Would Make Pot a Legal, Exportable Cash Crop (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/05/08/oklahoma-pot-legalization-cannabis-cash-crop)

Yes please.

Very simply - about as many people smoke pot now as they would if it were legal.  Perhaps a few more would smoke pot (probably me) occasionally if it were legal.  But I don't think we would see a sudden surge in "heavy users." 

The "think of the children" argument is tired.  When I was a "kid" I got exactly as much pot as I could afford.  It was easier to get than alcohol.  It was true for my parents (class of '69), I assume it is true today.  Just like alcohol, tobacco, and huffing household whatevers - it isn't whether it is legal or not that dictates their behavior.

It would raise revenue. 

It will save money in enforcement and incarceration.

Reduce the criminal element.   The argument that cartels would simply shift their focus is probably true.  BUT - it isn't like MORE people will get into heroine or cocaine because the cartels now want them to.  Even as Marijuana becomes more available.

And, I believe, cut DOWN on driving while high.  We cut down on driving while drunk - because people are aware of it and it is not socially acceptable.  Driving while high is still a "secret" problem.

YES - evidence exists that smoking pot is not good for you.  100% agree that is probably true.  But the drink I had at lunch isn't good for me.  The pork butt, chips and beer I plan on having at the BBQ tonight are not good for me. The cigar I smoke while fishing, also bad for me.  My afternoon redbull habit is bad.   But it's hard to argue for small government AND at the same time argue that pot should be illegal because it is unhealthy.

Uncle Sam, Oklahoma City - listen to reason and stop this reefer madness.

Alcohol and grass were both trivial to get in 1969.  Had a booze supplier who sold quart bottles (back when they were quarts) - and it was customer choice, either clear or brown booze in the bottle.  And it was guaranteed to be 1/2 full or more - I never got less than a full bottle, but there could be supply shortages, so he would adjust as needed to serve the maximum number of customers - everyone could get a little....   $5.00.

No brand names - the bottle had labels, but due to the supply chain methodology, it might say Jim Beam and actually be a mix of Beam, Jack, Johnny Walker, etc.  Clear could be mix of gin, vodka, and tequila.  Depending on supply..... it would always give a buzz....

Ain't it a b$tch when yet again, the RWRE are shown to be wrong.....


http://www.msnbc.com/all/does-marijuana-lower-the-crime-rate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/13/marijuana-crime-denver_n_5319298.html


And RT.com reported;

Compared to the same time period in 2013, overall property crime fell by 14.6 percent in Denver. Homicide rates, while not leaving the single digits in either year, fell by 66.7 percent while the number of robberies decreased by seven percent.

The federal wall is slowly coming down:


House blocks feds from going after medical marijuana
For the first time ever, Congress is taking action to protect – not condemn – medical marijuana use.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/congress-comes-out-medical-marijuana

Being the eternal amoral opportunists they are, just reading the polls and making inane pronouncements....

"The heart and soul of the Republican party is that pro-freedom, individual philosophy that Reagan talked about," said Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), the primary Republican pushing the amendment.


Yet, for at least the last 34 year (actually many more) they have been the against freedom, anti-individual party - just the OPPOSITE of what Reagan talked about.....

Medical marijuana proponents accuse Tulsa Police of harassment over petition
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/medical-marijuana-proponents-accuse-tulsa-police-of-harassment-over-petition/article_db704aa3-5f0d-5551-be54-67fb1988e07a.html

Good thing it wasn't something of extremely large social import - like maybe the Viet Nam war protests - they would have just brought out the tear gas....

Ahh...the good ole TPD!  Gotta love 'em!  To he$$ with the Constitution - this is Oklahoma!!

It doesnt take that much in Tulsa... just protesting predatory bank practices in a city park is sufficient:
http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/11/02/occupy-tulsa-pepper-spray-worst-abuse-yet/

Olbermann?  Really?  He’s high on paint.

Deflection moment... Olberman isn't the point....

TULSA, Okla. – The debate over legalizing marijuana is raging in Oklahoma, with strong opinions on both sides.

Now some supporters of legalizing marijuana tell FOX23 that Tulsa police interfered with them while they gathered signatures for a petition.
They shared this cell phone video with FOX23 that they say shows an officer confronting them.

"Just so you guys understand, we have no problem with you guys being here, but since he wants to be an a$shole and not tell us his past, that's why you have to leave,” said an officer on the tape.
The video shows TPD officers arriving at a petition site, gathering IDs to check into volunteers' past, and getting upset when one wouldn't give details about an old arrest.
“We're fine with this part of it, but because he doesn't want to cooperate, you guys are going,” said an officer on the tape.

Oklahomans for Health director Chip Paul said his volunteers were run off by police three days last week, and it's impacting the 90 days they have to collect just under 160,000 signatures in an effort to get medical marijuana on the November ballot.
“Police were nice and respectful when they rolled up, but their whole goal seems to be shutting us down, telling us to move. If we push back, it escalates,” said Paul.

FOX23 got a statement from the city explaining citizens complained about the group flying these marijuana flags and allegedly having signs saying the drug was sold at these locations.
One citizen report was even labeled "outside drug activity."

“We don't have an issue with people exercising their right. When we have a citizen call in, it is our duty to go to those locations and figure out what's going on and that's what we did,” said Jill Roberson with Tulsa police.

FOX23 found officers never filed a report for either call they responded to on Wednesday or Thursday, and they never found any drugs.
But the city's statement reads the group was on private commercial business properties.
“It is legal, but not on QuikTrip’s parking lot,” said an officer on the cell video.
That is a violation, but one Paul said his group is not guilty of committing.

“We're within our right to petition and we should never be moved from a public place or asked to move. We just want the problem fixed, we don't want to be hassled, we don't want to be harassed, however, a municipal authority has violated our civil rights,” said Paul.
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Supporters-of-marijuana-legalization-say-Tulsa/zJxgYN1h60i3dK8z11GCBA.cspx

Yeah okay Mr. Baby Bush, Murdoch, RWRE, LWRE.

Really??   Come ON!!!  You can do much better than that!  Not getting lazy on me in your old age, are you??  Have noticed guido slacking a little, too!!  You two, and Gas, are much better and a lot more fun than that!!

Makes me wonder if QuikTrip was asked for permission to collect signatures?  And if not, why not??

And second, if QuikTrip DID give permission, why are the cops there to start with?

And third, if QuikTrip did NOT give permission, why not?  As they are major beneficiaries of the freedoms and liberties we enjoy in this country, why would they not support those same freedoms?

Oh, you can petition the government for a redress of grievances as long as you submit to daily spot warrant checks and not object to any invasive questioning (thats not relevant to collecting signatures for a petition nor any potential crime investigation).

I totally forgot thats how it works.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKbgdDDoJCA[/youtube]



It took a couple of incidents, but the department has finally decided to distance itself:

TULSA — Tulsa Police Department officers may have exceeded their authority in forcing some petitioners to leave a public area, and one officer's supervisor is looking into her conduct during the incident, which was caught on video.
http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/medical-marijuana-backers-claim-harrassment-tulsa-/ngMpQ/

The petitioners are heard on the video noting that they were on a public easement, and not blocking the sidewalk.
The officers then ask the people for ID's, which they receive, and the female officer goes to the patrol unit to check the names.

She returns and asks the man with the camera phone "What have you been in trouble for?"
He tells her that he was arrested once, but it was dismissed.
After he refuses to tell the officers what the arrest was for, the female officer tells the people they have to leave.

(PIO): "As a citizen you have the right to remain, if you're there on that easement, as long as you're not standing on the sidwalk, or blocking traffic, or blocking someone from walking, you have a right to stand there. Whether it's a protest or a petition, I'll tell you right now the police department, we don't have an issue with anyone exercising their First Amendment rights. Let me be real clear with that...that's really where the chief stands, and where the department stands."

Totally a guess, but possibly pressure from Budweiser, whose owners are major contributors to efforts to stop any marijuana reform?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mason-tvert/big-alcohol-fueling-oppos_b_719878.html

But why?  I always enjoyed a Bud with a bud.

So you need to produce valid ID in order to present petitions to voters?

There is a rule that you have to divulge your history to government agents on demand or you lose your right to petition?

If your a jackhole to a cop, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply?

Noted. Thanks!

This threat to police budgets must not stand!

Seems like the male cop was professional.  He can ask for info, as long as they voluntarily comply so be it.  She was hostile the entire time.  Then they crossed the line.  Should have told them they cannot be on private property and left it at that.

Sad when stoners come out more professional than the police.  Not the stoners never called the officers names or violated their rights when they felt offended.

^^^"stoners"? Do you know if they actually smoke? The petitioners could be just casually dressed professionals trying to exercise their rights.

At 8 minutes into this the cop starts calling the guy an a$$hole...!!??  Yeah, classy female - got some real "Lady" tendencies going on there.  Ascribing characteristics to someone else which one possesses in abundance to try to deflect attention....


Makes me proud of TPD!!

(Anyone note the sarcasm in the text?)


It's a shame there isn't a Rabon Martin type still around willing to champion causes that otherwise go wanting.... Stand up for the little guy getting bulldozed by the system... Start a civil rights legal action against the overbearing, obnoxious, untrammeled exercise of undeserved power....

(Tilting at windmills....)

I do miss Rabon...

Notice how quickly Mr Professional jumps in to correct Miss Piggy's complete lack of regard for the law........

NOT.



As for The Chief's recently stated position on civil liberty,
either the deaprtment has had a complete reversal of their long-established, in-your-face disregard of civil rights


OR


there was a citizen with a video camera.

The group hopes to gather the nearly 156,000 signatures required to get medical marijuana on the November ballot so voters can decide the issue.

Organizer Chip Paul tells KRMG the police have stopped bothering the petitioners, but (Oklahomans for Health) still wants to know why it happened at all.

They'd like to find out if officers took it upon themselves to try and run petitioners off, or if the orders came from higher up.

And, Paul says, the councilors need to know there's potential liability for the city if such harassment occurs in the future.

http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/medical-marijuana-backers-plan-address-tulsa-city-/ngSzK/

It's interesting (but not surprising) that as the majority of states are either legalizing or moving closer to legalization of medical marijuana, the Oklahoma narcotics bureaucracy scrambles to build a barricade of new laws to fend off reform.
Here's one the governor recently signed into law:

http://legiscan.com/OK/text/HB2666/2014

If it's good for the people.  Popular.  Or likely to enhance our attractiveness to outside investment.  We, as a state will always vote against it.

Salvia is now a Schedule I narcotic?    At some point wasn't that a houseplant?

We didnt get to vote on this overly-broad, capricious nightmare.

As written, you could twist a piece of paper and put it on a table, and if someone thinks it looks like a joint...

(http://georgeweigel.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/salvia.maynight-300x225.jpg)

Heading home to trip balls.

Smell ya later

"We" is the collective we - people at the ballot box and legislators down in OKC.  Across the board astounding how we vote against our own best interest so much of the time.  Most of the time....

You flower children be careful, now, meanwhile...



EL RENO, Oklahoma - Agents arrested two Florida men who they said were smuggling $250,000 worth of pot products.
"This marijuana that they're producing today is like nothing we've ever seen before," Mark Woodward with OBN said.

Woodward said every single item they seized from the suspects' car contains marijuana like brownies, fruit juice, olive oil, butter, jam and candies that look like brand name candy.
"It shows who these people are marketing this to, because you don't put gummy bears out here and target 55-year-old men with this stuff," said Woodward.


55-year-old men in Florida with cancer, maybe.  

After all, dried prunes are definitely appealing to kids...

http://www.news9.com/story/25939171/obn-makes-unique-marijuana-products-drug-bust
(http://localtvkfor.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/photo-2.jpg?w=500)

I take it Mark Woodward doesn't get out much.

Want to bet he can find his way to the property room when he has a good friend with cancer?

It's hard to tell if they are that out-of-touch with reality, or just paid to be:
"Agents pulled over Robert Shepard and Andrew Mason on Interstate 40 in El Reno on Wednesday for following too close.
They said both men were acting nervous, so they brought in a K9 named Xena. The three-year-old OBN pup sniffed out 50 pounds of products in the men's car."

Glad to hear the probable cause came from OBNDD's routine patrol of the highway, and not a tip from illegal NSA surveillance.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805

All that warrant-less eavesdropping just to protect us from terrorist pot gummybears?

http://mic.com/articles/92449/six-months-after-legalizing-marijuana-two-big-things-have-happened-in-colorado
(http://media2.policymic.com/ab46c77d3db114c2ccddb25f239f8ccf.gif)

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-20/drug-regulators-study-easing-u-s-marijuana-restrictions.html

I bet that is a fun graphic to watch while stoned.

Meanwhile, crime is falling in Colorado since weed became legal.  The exact opposite of what law enforcement and the prison cartel predicted.

http://rt.com/usa/colorado-crime-change-legalization-study-017/

My apologies if someone else beat me to this.  I think it’s compelling.

although it might be plausible for it to go up...well, at least shoplifting of cool ranch and nacho cheese doritos would likely go up.

 8)

Twinkies.  Gotta have...wait...what?

WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS A REFERENCE TO WORLD NET DAILY. FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, PLEASE USE PRECAUTIONS BEFORE READING IT. AN ALUMINUM FOIL HAT, SAFETY GLASSES, AND NYTRILE GLOVES ARE STRONGLY RECOMMENDED.

"Carson told Farah that he worried politicians like President Obama and Eric Holder are surreptitiously encouraging marijuana use in order to create a dumb citizenry. That way, doped-up Americans will be distracted by controversies like the name of the Washington Redskins instead of focusing on stories about Benghazi and Fast and Furious."

So there you have it. Marijuana is linked directly to Benghazi. Who knew that Obama could be so Machiavellian?

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-carson-thinks-politicians-are-promoting-pot-use-make-people-dumb-distract-benghazi (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-carson-thinks-politicians-are-promoting-pot-use-make-people-dumb-distract-benghazi)

(As an aside, perhaps Benghazi references should be a sub-set or corollary to Godwin's Law. Just sayin')

"Overall property crime fell by 14.6 percent in Denver. Homicide rates, while not leaving the single digits in either year, fell by 66.7 percent while the number of robberies decreased by seven percent."

...And we have to get this news from the Russians.
At lest our leaders are protecting us from epileptic babies smoking joints.



(http://i.imgur.com/kpmKSnA.png)

(http://i544.photobucket.com/albums/hh347/gethigh4twenty/StonerBaby.jpg)

So while Colorado was laying the groundwork to amp up its tax base, Oklahoma was laying the groundwork to keep it's prisons full:


New penalties for possession or making of hashish, a grinder, or brownies may include life imprisonment, were enacted in 2011.
Effective Oct. 1, 2013, a person will be jailed for no less than 30 days or more than 1 year if: A person as any amount of a Schedule I chemical or controlled substance, as defined in Section 2-204 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes, OR ONE OF ITS METABOLITES OR ANALOGS in the person’s blood, saliva, urine or any other bodily fluid at the time of a test of such person's blood, saliva, urine or any other bodily fluid administered within two (2) hours after the arrest of such person.  A second offense will have longer sentencing as well as require an ignition interlock device that can only detect alcohol even if person is not a user of alcohol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_U.S._state

New Crest store in Norman...tonight...2 boxes of Hostess Cupcakes!!  Yum!!  Rationed at no more than 12 a day!    Er, uh.....1 per day!!  Yeah, that's it....that's the ticket....!

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/11/only-scientist-researching-how-pot-can-help-veterans-ptsd-gets-axed-after-gop-pressure/

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/pot-ptsd-arizona-boots-researcher-seeking-cure-vets-n152881

Lots of lobbyist $$$ going towards misinformation campaigns to defeat drug reform....

Apparently, "authorities" lumping marijuana with other, more dangerous substances is a time-tested misinformation tactic that still works.
Look at the Lobbyist money being thrown around police associations in an effort to confuse pot with synthetic drugs, with phony phrases like "synthetic marijuana" and "fake pot:"

http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/08/drug-warriors-spend-money-training-cops
http://show-mecannabis.com/2014/06/law-enforcement-training-vs-political-propaganda-the-fine-line/
http://kwgn.com/2013/09/09/explainer-what-is-the-difference-between-synthetic-marijuana-and-natural-marijuana/



There's big grant money waiting for agencies that will give their officers the appropriate propaganda training on WOD talking points,
Here's one example of how that trickles down to the uninformed media:

Heres a somewhat telling story about Oklahoma's drug bureaucracy...

Apparently there's a plant in the Coffee family that people have used for thousands of years to relieve pain -- and more recently to help avoid narcotics and even alcohol.

Apparently the only ones really harmed by this drug are the big pharmaceutical companies, but OBNDD has already tried to have it banned.  Currently, they are "monitoring" the news for another excuse to take a shot at it.

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/drug-agency-monitors-kratom-use-oklahoma/ngftf/

More "they're marketing it to our babies!" propaganda:

The Tulsa County Sheriff's Violent Crimes and Drug Task Force discovered all kinds of flavored marijuana in a recent bust, and much of it was in the form of gummy bears and sugar cubes. They say this is a wake-up call for parents that pot now comes in all shapes and sizes.

"Look at these. You open it up and it looks identical to gummy vitamins. If I were a kid, I'd eat them. The different flavors, that's tempting. They even smell good," said Investigator Leighton Boyd, Tulsa County Sheriff's Office.

Why yes, candy always comes in medicine bottles...
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/4313564_G.jpg)




Investigators say if a child ate a handful of these or more, they could overdose, get sick, even die. They say parents may not realize kids are doing drugs right in front of them.
http://www.newson6.com/story/26116365/colorado-pot-products-showing-up-in-tulsa-drug-busts

And again, how many people have died from overdoses of marijuana?

ever?

 

Apparently two, but that was back when you could either smoke it or bake it.   Now that you can eat a joints worth in one gummy bear, we might get to see that chemistry can up that figure.

http://time.com/10372/marijuana-deaths-german-study/

Repeal Prohibition, Again

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/high-time-marijuana-legalization.html





http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/high-time-let-states-decide-on-marijuana.html

A Rupert Murdoch publication.

Do a search for "marijuana oklahoma city" and you'll find a couple of news pieces on the rise of homelessness in Denver since their laws changed and another on how home owners associations can ban marijuana cultivation or use.

Gotta beat that drum.

I'm just saying that if you put a fat man on a treadmill and he has a heart attack, you blame the treadmill not the years of poor health choices.

Personally I think we should legalize it and tax the hell out of it.    We are going to need a new tax base soon to replace all the cigarette taxes that are going away.

Why are cigarette taxes going away??


The Fed will never outlaw "enhancing" cigarettes to increase addictiveness - it will cut into the tax base too much - so we will always have a lot of smoking addicts around....

In his documentary on Prohibition, Ken Burns said the federal government was funded by liquor taxes, and with Prohibition looming, income taxes had to be enacted as a substitute. People drank prodigious amounts of alcohol back then.

Fewer people partaking and the older smokers are dying off.

That's what I was thinking.   Their spending of millions to keep kids from smoking seems to be working.

It hasn't turned over yet, but I expect that to be just a matter of time.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=403

I don’t know of any of my daughter’s friends who smoke.  I’m glad their generation doesn’t see any value in it.

The prohibitionists want to imply that legalization created homelessness, but the facts show that homeless from other states are emigrating to Colorado in search of the new jobs.  Its the gold rush all over again.

And the discredited German "marijuana deaths" study... They were spanked by their own peers for their sloppy conclusions.
“Cannabis does not paralyze the breathing or the heart," head of the German Association for Drugs and Addiction Jost Leune said. "Deaths due to cannabis use are usually accidents that are not caused by the substance, but to the circumstances of use.”


Has the magic plant finally claimed its first victim, several thousand years into its history with humans?
http://www.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2014/02/26/german-doctors-say-marijuana-can-kill-you
Drug cops are essentially quoting The Onion to prolong prohibition, people. And doctors are publishing findings that say, because we cannot find any reason why this person died, it must be the marijuana.

...which brings us to the absurd (yet meticulously rehearsed) statements like the ones earlier, spoon-fed to gullible reporters.

You would think the writing on the wall would be clear, and that people responsible for our tax dollars and the safety of the public would be thinking ahead to how they are going to operate in a post-prohibition world.


  

Slowly decreasing - seems like we have 'plateaued'.....

There is an easy real fix, just like there is an easy real to the so-called immigration issue....

Two steps -
1  Federal law prohibiting enhancement of the addictive compounds over what naturally occurs in tobacco as grown.  This would let the vast majority of people who want to quit ABLE to do just that!!

2  Increase taxes some more...5% increase each year - this is a "frog in a pot slowly brought to a boil" solution, but the first can make a serious immediate impact.


There are simple, straightforward, cost-effective solutions to many of the big problems we face....there just aren't simple, straightforward ways to continue the power-grabs, graft, and corruption IF those solutions are implemented!!

Read more: http://www.koco.com/news/obn-we-do-not-support-medical-marijuana-petition/27196282

I thought that as cannabis is a Schedule 1 drug with no known medical use (per the DEA) research aimed at finding such medical use was prohibited or severely restricted. That sets us a Catch 22 situation. You can't find medical uses because you can't do research, therefore cannabis remains a Schedule 1 drug.

It's surprising how the OKCAP petition drive has been so well received throughout the state. Except in Tulsa. Advocates said that TPD officers were turning away potential petition signers yesterday, but the video provided didn't make that very clear.

In Owasso, someone called the PD complaining that people were selling marijuana out in front of Reasors. It was a card table on the sidewalk with hand lettered medical marijuana signs. Welcome to the 'burbs.

One side effect of this push has been the increase in voter registrations, since the OKCAP tables also offer the paperwork.

Advertisement in the New York Times.

(http://h.fastcompany.net/multisite_files/fastcompany/inline/2014/08/3033929-inline-nyt-full-page-v7-fpo.jpg)

A bit of a sidebar here, but the initiative petition process may have already had a secondary impact -- registering new voters who are NOT likely to re-elect Gov. Fallin. 
If you recall, she was elected by a very small margin, which Im guessing would be a number roughly equal to the fringe element who only came out to vote when Fallin made defeating the "threat" of Sharia Law a big part of her platform.


The group is breaking records with the number of new voters getting registered.
 “We doubled the 12,000 that was the old record, we registered 24,000 new voters between May and June,” he said.
 FOX3 talked to the Tulsa County Election Board to get the number of new registered voters: 649 in May, 1,698 in June and a 2,448 in July.
 
Officials told FOX23 they expect the increase ahead of presidential elections, but think medical marijuana is the reason this year.
 “I think there’s a giant separation between what the people think about medical marijuana and what our government officials think about medical marijuana,” said Paul.
http://www.fox23.com/news/news/time-running-out-petition-medical-marijuana/ngyDZ/


If she intends to keep her for-profit prison donors happy with kids getting life sentences for pot brownies, she better start demanding more money.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/private-prisons-contribute-thousands-to-oklahoma-political-campaigns/article_f5ddca24-72e5-5c81-849b-031ac6c7c978.html

Too little too late:


Gov. Mary Fallin announced she would ask lawmakers to talk with her, possibly as early as the next legislative session, to consider having a state representative prepare to lead a legislative study examining the possibility of allowing medical trials for the use of non-intoxicating CBD oils to children affected by severe seizures.

(insert appropriate pot-themed joke about holding breath)

Fallin Supports Limited Use of Cannabis Oil

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/fallin-supports-limited-use-cannabis-oil-0 (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/fallin-supports-limited-use-cannabis-oil-0)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201407/FALLIN-GOO.JPG)

I THOUGHT I saw some pigs in flight today!

...and they were wearing lipstick.

Im betting the decriminalization momentum outpaces this delaying tactic (and her term in office).  Lets see.

Were they in formation?
 :D

They only fly in line like B-52's doing low level runs....

I thought it was interesting the initial sound bite and headline splurge she got: “Governor Fallin Supports Medical Marijuana” which is incredibly far from the truth.  She supports one extract medication from the hemp plant.  Big difference.

She's on the "bus" - dissemination, distortion, lies....

She’s a Murdochian, no doubt.

She was losing voter percentages.

This.  However, I wonder if she hasn't bled enough votes because of the handling of education and the like.

And her opponent isn't exactly a progressive.  But he's better than her, that's for sure.

Wonder what our resident Fallin-worshipper thinks of this?

What?  An Oklahoma governor loosing re-election because she was a dick about the state's #2 cash crop?


Hope.

He’s on the radio saying he was glad to see her jump on the bandwagon with legislation he authored or co-authored.  Though he referred to her as “Mary” and not “Governor” or “Governor Fallin”. 

I guess it's better than Governor Failin' or Mattress Mary.   ???

That's going to happen when you represent your lobbyists and not the will of 70-80 percent of the electorate.

Proof that in reality, she is anti-business.

That’ll never play with Uncle Kimchi.  You know he’s just got to have a poster of her over his bed...like on the ceiling.

Thanks for that mental image.  :-\

Taking the place of the center mirror tile...?

If they did really register that many, than Mary is probably doomed given that her opponent, Joe Dorman authored the bill currently being considered.  It's likely too little too late for her and I for one would not miss her.

One other thing I've noticed is that two years ago, being 'against Obamacare' was quite the calling-card on campaign ads..meaning emphasis was given to that particular phrase when pitching the sale.  Hers barely glosses over it in less than a second bundled up into other word salad.  Wonder why that is?

She is starting to understand the everyone who believed that nonsense is now starting to understand how badly "it's just one more thing she did to hurt Oklahoma".... let's hope there are enough voters go to the polls who have figured it out.

Aww Dang! Looks like a no go on the ballot vote.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/medical-marijuana-supporters-say-they-don-t-have-enough-petition/article_21f6625b-122b-5d64-a65d-f9e597f70cbe.html

That doesn't make it a non issue and doesn't mean something can't be done legislatively.  I know a family who has packed up and moved to Colorado because their daughter was having over 50 seizures a day and found that the CBD reduced that to about 1 every two days.  This is going to be a heated topic I think, and in fairly short order.

Sorry Hoss, I doubt it.  People will need to leave Oklahoma for decades to come.

Why can't it be the Failin', Kern, Inhofe types who leave??

Sounds like CBD has a fighting chance, just not other forms with high amounts of THC.  Can’t have people in pain getting stoned, don’t ya know?  Better to hook them on more and more opiates as they destroy their internal organs and have to take higher dosages to attain the same relief over time.

I for one, am a person who does not respond as intended with opiates.  It does so little to contain pain for me, I simply elect to take analgesics post surgery or injury rather than do more damage to my body with that crap.  When I was having chronic back issues about 6 years ago, a little MJ at night was the only relief I could get.  When I dislocated my right shoulder a few weeks ago, the Dr. kept trying to push “low dose” narcotics on me for the pain on a follow-up visit the day after the incident happened.  I had to tell him thee times very emphatically that wasn’t going to happen. 

That is one thing no one is addressing:  I’ve never heard any evidence of people developing a tolerance to the effects of MJ like they do prescription narcotics or even street heroin.  It’s also amazing the amount of unfounded BS law enforcement and the private prison lobby spew about MJ.

Apparently there is all sorts of grant money available to "officials" who push deceptive terms like "fake pot" to the media.
Since marijuana isnt sending kids to the ER, why not plant the association with something that is into the public's minds?

Next time you hear some idiot use the bogus term "Synthetic Marijuana," call them out.

Be very careful here - you are treading into a maze of progressive thoughts and beliefs that may actually complete your transition from Republican to a rational thinker!!



Also, please note I did NOT say transition to Democrat....

If I had ever seen anyone pushing the petition I would have signed it.   How many signatures short are they?

No idea.  I signed it at the home brew store.

I guess I'm a old fud-dud I am against legal MJ. We don't need more people in public not thinking clearly or "mellowed out". We have enough problems with alcohol without adding drivers high on MJ to the streets. MJ can stay in your body for over 4 weeks after you last used it and can show up on a drug test. What effect will legal MJ have in the work place is also a serious question, Example:  some guy who gets high over the weekend is now at work Monday morning  driving a fork lift in a warehouse or operating heavy equipment -or  whatever,  do we really want that? Isn't alcohol enough? I do think the penalty for drug use is too stiff I will say that, it does not fit he crime. However Legal drugs no way, Once MJ is legal the camel has his nose under the tent for making other mind altering drugs  legal.

That’s the same lame logic on gay marriage.  “Now people will marry their dogs and horses!”

If one is to apply the “gateway drug” theory, then 3.2 beer should be outlawed in Oklahoma.  God only knows how many alcoholics started out taking a sip off their old man’s Falstaff or Schlitz.

Legalizing pot doesn’t make people more likely to use it than those who already do or will eventually use it.  It simply lifts the veil of lawlessness associated with it’s use and possession.  I used to use it, and if it were made legal, I would not use it for recreational purposes ever again.

If you are truly the fiscal conservative you claim to be, legalizing MJ is a smart move: we waste untold millions of taxpayer dollars on policing, prosecution, and imprisoning users.  People die due to underground trafficking which is necessary because of it’s illegality.  Secondly, if you bring it out of the dark like they have in Washington and Colorado, it can be taxed and regulated which raises revenue.

The only real danger posed by stoned drivers is them getting rear-ended on the highway.  And really, how much damage can somebody do going 25 MPH?

Seriously though, there are too many logic issues and false arguments raised in your post for reasonable discussion. 

Oh, and as somebody who's been the warehousing and distribution area my entire career, I can assure you that the number of Monday morning fork truck drivers with pot in their systems is already quite high.  (Pun intended...)

Legalizing it does not mean that you have a right to use it.   Employers can and will still drug test and if you fail, you can/will be fired.   My brother works for a company that has to pass DOT checks.   It's real easy, if you want to work there you have random screenings that you have to pass.

But use will increase and it says in your system for over 4 weeks after it was last used. How about inbetween the random drug screens?

Not to mention kids in school zones and cross walks, getting hit by a car doing 25 mph can kill ya and with a brain zoned out who knows what will happen, and that's on top of all the alcohol drivers, car insurance rates will likely go if MJ is made legal too. Drivers have to have a clear brain and give 100% attention to driving something that can't be done with a foggy brain on drugs.

Dude, seriously...   Soooo  many logic flaws and false assumptions...

You really haven't learned anything new since 1936 have you?  (Two full years before the country FINALLY outlawed child labor.)

The whole reson for making MJ legal is to alter your brain without being charged with a crime, it's a brain altering drug- otherwise no one would be using MJ. The idea is to get high and  that's what MJ is all about --and it stays in your system for over 4 weeks after you last use it. I think there's a song in that too. :)

Alcohol does short term and permanent impairment to the brain, ergo a brain-altering drug.  Yet, it’s perfectly legal.  The “four week” residual you keep referring to is not a residual high.  You can smoke a joint at night, wake up the next morning and no ill after effects.  How productive and alert do you think people are with a bad hangover from getting drunk the night before?

Like beating your head against a wall, isn't it?

All ya can do is run with it and try to have a little fun along the way....

I'll make another case against the legalization of MJ- Turns out driver Kevin Ward who was killed on the race track after getting out of his car used MJ, it altered his brains thinking pattern- the #1 rule in racing is you never get out of your car, but when have MJ in your body you do crazy things and that cost him his life, with MJ in his system Kevin Ward got out of his car.. The same things will happen on our city streets if we make MJ legal-  drivers doing crazy things while driving with legal MJ in their system. I understand the car accident rate in Colorado already increased since MJ became legal there. Why do people feel the need to live life in some altered brain state anyhow? Isn't alcohol enough of a buzz? There is no clear answer of what will happen in the workplace with legal MJ, fork lift drivers who used MJ over the weekend, machine operators and the like. Employer Drug testing can pick up MJ in the body  4 weeks or more after it was last used.

But the cases you make always sound so damned mentally stunted it's as if you are a major burner yourself. 

How can you be against it when you seem to love it so much?

Actually, no, the accident rate has not been linked to pot use since metabolites of pot stay in the system for weeks, though the user is not “under the influence” after several hours.

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/15/6152309/Colorado-marijuana-DUI-car-accidents-crashes

Colorado’s rate of fatal accidents is actually down by record numbers comparing July 2014 all the way back to July 2002.

(http://img.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2014/08/COTotalDeaths.jpg)

(http://img.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2014/08/CoTrafficDeaths.jpg)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/08/05/since-marijuana-legalization-highway-fatalities-in-colorado-are-at-near-historic-lows/

Obviously could not have been that much of an effect, else he would have been chill enough to sit there rather than getting all "Mr. Macho" and get out on the track to try to confront Stewart.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25770838/more-colorado-drivers-fatal-crashes-postive-pot-study   >>> This is not rocket science if you take any substance that alters your brain & thinking patterns and drive a car under that substance it's not going to make ya a safer driver. With more people using pot and driving guess what? :D

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140515173507.htm

...but you are trying to make that point with someone who believes they are trying to legalize DUI.

Really??  Total-and-complete-lack-of-ScienceDaily...???

Irrelevant.  Since the other 49 don't test for mj impairment at the time of an accident, even 1 would mean an increase.  Get some really numbers....

No, it's the result of what will happen if MJ is made legal. We will not only have MJ users on our highways but also all the illegal drugs on top of that plus alcohol. Making MJ legal will increase the number of people who use it and make our roadways more dangerous. Car insureance rates would likely climb too.

And once again your "Failin' Stupid Carp" comes through - wouldn't it be refreshing if just once, you would do a little bit of investigation and find out the reality before spewing...??    Just ONCE!!  Is that too much to ask??

Usage rates have been shown for many years to NOT go up when decriminalized/legalized.  Either in this country or internationally.  It's a non-event.  Nothing changes.  (Using short sentences and simple words so you at least have a chance of understanding...)


http://norml.org/aboutmarijuana/item/marijuana-decriminalization-its-impact-on-use-2

I don't believe that. While the number of heavy users may not change, I would bet that more people would try it at least one time if it were legal. I have no basis for this other than a friend in Colorado who is my age and tried a marijuana cookie for the first time. She said her friend threw a party and most of the girls said they had never tried it before.

Sure, Look at who put out that link- it's done by a pro-MJ group. The link also uses the words "no substantial increase" so even they admit there will be some increase in MJ use but it won't be substantial, and what they define as being "substantial" is anybodys guess. When alcohol became legal again  in the 1930's there was an increase in it's use, even though people used alcohol while it was illegal, it stands to reason MJ would be the same way. None the less your going to have people driving cars with altered brains from MJ use or driving a fork lift at work  mellowed out from MJ - thinking he's  even a better  fork lift driver because he's so mellow.  MJ's only real use is to alter your brain, that's the only reason people use it. If MJ had no effect no one would use it. You need to post links that are non-bias that tells it like it is.

Yep and there is likely more of that going on behind the scenes that never gets reported.  Nope- I don't favor legal MJ in Oklahoma.

You do realize that you could replace every instance of MJ in your sentence with 'alcohol', right?  Except that MJ is actually a plant that is grown in the ground.  Naturally.  Without distillation.  Also, I've not heard of one instance of someone dying of 'MJ poisoning'.

Well with legal MJ you'll have both  kinds of drivers on the road,  (MJ and drivers and  alcohol drivers) one substance won't be replacing the other- so we'll have drivers that use two different substances while driving or on the job. There is a difference too MJ stays in your system up to 4-5 weeks alcohol does not. The effect MJ has on the body when it's still in your system for 4-5 weeks is not fully known, but I doubt it's anything that's good.

So you're saying you haven't done any research.  Wow, color me surprised.

Driving under the influence would still be just as illegal as it is now.  Why would there be an uptick just by making it legal?  I look at it this way: if MJ were legal, perhaps people who have been abusing prescription pain killers might turn to MJ instead.  Prescription painkillers are perfectly legal but very lethal in the wrong hands.

Quoting people like;

National Academy of Science
Contemporary Drug Problems  (yeah, I know - says Federal on it so kiss of death to you...reality for everyone else.)
Bureau of Tobacco Control and Biometrics, Health and Welfare  (blame Canada!!)
California State Office of Narcotics and Drug Abuse
British Journal of Psychiatry
Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport  (where freedom and liberty actually began...)
Australian Journal of Public Health

If you are concerned about the definition of the word 'substantial', then look it up.  And read some of those papers to see what THEY define as 'substantial'.

As for alcohol, the usage dropped according to 'studies' (referenced here if you really want to know what you are talking about...so, I bet you won't look at any of them), mostly due to lower cirrhosis rates by about 10 - 20%.  One was confused....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_during_and_after_prohibition


But YOU know better than all those high-falutin' intellectuals, don't ya...?


For the VAST majority - beyond any "first time" novelty use, alcohol AND marijuana - of people who use are gonna keep using.  And the ones that don't, won't.

Again, READ!!  Or are you a high school graduate??


Sounds like there may be some alcohol use in play even as we speak....

And having done NO research, study or even thought hard about the subject, how could YOU possibly know?

In the news right now MJ causes Schizophrenia, with teen use the risk is higher. This is not rocket science stuff MJ is bad and we don't need legal MJ with thousands MORE people in public on our streets stoned out of their gourd. >>>>  http://www.futurity.org/teen-marijuana-abuse/

Research? This is not rocket Science, MJ alters your brain that's why people use it-- and it now turns out it can cause schizophrenia & Mental illness.  Bottom line: Do we in  Oklahoma want thousands of Schizophrenia people on our streets and  driving cars by making MJ legal?  We already have enough wacked out people around... Talk about research- I did research on global warming and found that to be a total hoax, many people who  believe in global warming with never check it out for themselves, they just drink the kool-aid. Oops excuse me it's now "Climate Change".

Nothing new here.  Same old stuff that has been around forever.  Also, for tobacco as well as alcohol.  That is why, even when things are legal, they are still prohibited for kids.

Still haven't given a rational thought - maybe teen tobacco/alcohol use explains some things here...??

And as always, you prove once again, you know nothing about the topic.  There have ALWAYS been people roaming around with MJ wandering through their system to varying degrees.  And the degree of that participation doesn't change in any detectable fashion after legalization.  And the adverse societal effects have been shown to be nil - if nothing else, just by the lack of a body count.  Unlike alcohol AND tobacco - very noticeable body counts! 


You researched nothing on global warming - the studies are on global climate change.  And you didn't research any further than Jim Inhofe, Rush Limbaugh, and Matt Drudge - and even though they are all top noted climate scientists, they are on the wrong side of the facts.  Because climate change has actually been found to be real...wouldn't expect you to understand.  It has been shown to be affected by human activity.  This is the reality.

The only open questions relate to what effects it's gonna have on us, and just the most casual curiosity of what initiated the process this time around.  And that is not likely to be a cut and dried answer and really doesn't matter anyway, since we live in an analog continuum where everything is changing all the time.  We have been warmer and we have been colder.  The current CO2 levels are the only new thing that has entered into the equation - and we all know where that comes from!