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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => Local & State Politics => Topic started by: patric on August 26, 2011, 10:48:42 am



Title: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 26, 2011, 10:48:42 am
It's time to get over stereotypes:
http://www.fox23.com/videos/news/fox-rant-the-case-for-medical-marijuana/vCM4X8/



UC Studies Show Marijuana Has Therapeutic Value, Reports to Legislature.
“We focused on illnesses where current medical treatment does not provide adequate relief or coverage of symptoms,” explained CMCR director, Igor Grant, MD, Executive Vice-Chair of the Department of Psychiatry at the UCSD School of Medicine.  “These findings provide a strong, science-based context in which policy makers and the public can begin discussing the place of cannabis in medical care.”
http://health.ucsd.edu/news/2010/2-17-medical-marijuana.htm
http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=2790222


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on August 26, 2011, 02:17:22 pm
Haven't we all been here before? We have all been here before.... we have all been here before.


http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13735.0

I think that AOX had a thread or two also trying to destroy the gateway drug myth.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mINUnwifgaA&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

evidently, it helped this guy calm down after the quake :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Gaspar on August 26, 2011, 02:22:06 pm
Wow!

Held his breath for 4 hours on this thread.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on August 26, 2011, 02:30:19 pm
Wow!

Held his breath for 4 hours on this thread.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCc-RWIp7XU[/youtube]

Flatuatorybogie, I don't inhale.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 29, 2011, 10:09:38 am
The editorial position in favor of reforming marijuana laws to allow for medical use seems worthy of discussion, considering the typical response of local media has been to simply voice over or add video to press handouts crowing about common pot busts. 
Rarely do you find reporters asking simple questions like "how much did this cost taxpayers?" or "could these resources have been better utilized to fight more substantial crimes?".


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 29, 2011, 10:44:22 am
This thread should be sponsored by Fritos or Cheetohs.

They gain to sell more munchies if approved.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 29, 2011, 10:48:30 am
This thread should be sponsored by Fritos or Cheetohs.

They gain to sell more munchies if approved.

Nah, any self respecting stoner will tell you that Cool Ranch OR Nacho Cheese Doritos are the munchy of choice, but that's all relative, they're owned by the same people...wait, what?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on August 29, 2011, 10:50:22 am
Nah, any self respecting stoner will tell you that Cool Ranch OR Nacho Cheese Doritos are the munchy of choice, but that's all relative, they're owned by the same people...wait, what?

Cool ranch 100%


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on August 29, 2011, 11:08:20 am
Nah, any self respecting stoner will tell you that Cool Ranch OR Nacho Cheese Doritos are the munchy of choice, but that's all relative, they're owned by the same people...wait, what?

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/stoned.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 29, 2011, 11:30:53 am
Cool ranch 100%

Back in my heyday was when they introduced Cool Ranch Ds, so I had to make due.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on August 29, 2011, 12:24:18 pm
Back in my heyday was when they introduced Cool Ranch Ds, so I had to make due.

Wait, so you never really had the whole experience?

Better get you some of that glaucoma and quick.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 31, 2011, 09:27:58 am
And another:
http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=2803685

Maybe having a family member or friend with cancer gets people to re-order their priorities and perceptions.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on August 31, 2011, 10:07:01 am
Well we know that if the government hating, free market economy loving, tenth ammendment worshiping michelle bachmann or rick "yosemite sam" perry are elected pot will be legal overnight, right?  Ok Sorry I didn't mean to troll.  I'll be good, I'll be good.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Gaspar on August 31, 2011, 11:51:36 am
I used to have a friend who had a rare form of depression that was completely managed with weed.

Basically he would get depressed when he ran out of weed.

Helps with bulimia too because the patient eats and then forgets to throw-up.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 31, 2011, 01:10:36 pm
I used to have a friend who had a rare form of depression that was completely managed with weed.

Basically he would get depressed when he ran out of weed.

Helps with bulimia too because the patient eats and then forgets to throw-up.

Two more valid medical uses.

Not to mention using the stuff to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil - not reduce, as the Republicontins talk about - eliminate!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Gaspar on August 31, 2011, 01:41:35 pm
Two more valid medical uses.

Not to mention using the stuff to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil - not reduce, as the Republicontins talk about - eliminate!



Clogs my carburetor every time!  Have to keep a pocket knife and lighter in my glove compartment.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: custosnox on August 31, 2011, 04:10:50 pm

Not to mention using the stuff to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil - not reduce, as the Republicontins talk about - eliminate!


Wait, what?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 01, 2011, 10:10:29 am
Wait, what?

Have you not read the other threads about using biomass using marijuana to make us energy independent??

If we REALLY are interested in energy self-sufficiency, the solution is already available.  As well as an excellent medicine for many different disease treatments.  Marijuana is a "wonder plant" - that is why George Washington grew so much of it!!

Also,
fiber for paper, so we don't have to cut down all the trees in the world.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 01, 2011, 11:09:30 am
Have you not read the other threads about using biomass using marijuana to make us energy independent??

If we REALLY are interested in energy self-sufficiency, the solution is already available.  As well as an excellent medicine for many different disease treatments.  Marijuana is a "wonder plant" - that is why George Washington grew so much of it!!

Also,
fiber for paper, so we don't have to cut down all the trees in the world.



So...you could send a letter to someone and they could read it, then smoke it. This is sounding better all the time.

This is a subject that really tests our country. Now is a good time to decriminalize the drug and re-assess many others. A change in my outlook but we can't afford to keep up charades. The bad news is it won't happen in an Obama administration because of the obvious politicization.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 01, 2011, 11:16:05 am
So...you could send a letter to someone and they could read it, then smoke it. This is sounding better all the time.

This is a subject that really tests our country. Now is a good time to decriminalize the drug and re-assess many others. A change in my outlook but we can't afford to keep up charades. The bad news is it won't happen in an Obama administration because of the obvious politicization.

Let's face it: the law enforcement, court, and incarceration costs involved with pot is eating up massive amounts of money on a national, state, and local scale.  The effects alcohol has on individuals and families is far more deleterious than pot.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 01, 2011, 11:53:57 am
Let's face it: the law enforcement, court, and incarceration costs involved with pot is eating up massive amounts of money on a national, state, and local scale.  The effects alcohol has on individuals and families is far more deleterious than pot.

It has always been that way.  Was outlawed it only for the benefit of DuPont and Hearst.  (Nylon replacement for rope and trees owned by Hearst to make newspapers).  Not for any deleterious effect on society.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: custosnox on September 01, 2011, 12:52:47 pm
Have you not read the other threads about using biomass using marijuana to make us energy independent??

If we REALLY are interested in energy self-sufficiency, the solution is already available.  As well as an excellent medicine for many different disease treatments.  Marijuana is a "wonder plant" - that is why George Washington grew so much of it!!

Also,
fiber for paper, so we don't have to cut down all the trees in the world.


That would be hemp, not marijuana.  I love how those who are trying to legalize marijuana conveniently use the miracles of hemp, which is canibis, to try and sell their case.  And JEFFERSON grew and touted the wonders of hemp.  While there is speculation that other founding fathers my have had hemp plots, nothing substantiates it.  What is funny is the reason hemp became illegal is because no one knew the difference between it and Marijuana, so the canibis plant was outlawed, which included hemp and marijuana.  Of course, to get enough THC from hemp to get stoned by smoking it, you would have to smoke enough of it, fast enough, that it would end up burning up your lungs.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 02, 2011, 10:04:06 am
It has always been that way.  Was outlawed it only for the benefit of DuPont and Hearst.  (Nylon replacement for rope and trees owned by Hearst to make newspapers).  Not for any deleterious effect on society.

That, and it was associated with Mexicans.
I doubt any politician that votes against medical uses has any trouble obtaining it themselves when a family member has to undergo chemo.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 02, 2011, 11:52:14 am
That would be hemp, not marijuana.  I love how those who are trying to legalize marijuana conveniently use the miracles of hemp, which is canibis, to try and sell their case.  And JEFFERSON grew and touted the wonders of hemp.  While there is speculation that other founding fathers my have had hemp plots, nothing substantiates it.  What is funny is the reason hemp became illegal is because no one knew the difference between it and Marijuana, so the canibis plant was outlawed, which included hemp and marijuana.  Of course, to get enough THC from hemp to get stoned by smoking it, you would have to smoke enough of it, fast enough, that it would end up burning up your lungs.

So did Washington.  In fact, he was one of the biggest growers.  And he definitely was growing for medicinal as well as industrial purposes.

It is all C. Sativa.  Differences between varieties relate to the amount of THC in the plant.  Ranging from 0.5% to 20% in some of the "newer" stuff.

In FACT.  Way before DuPont Nylon, starting in the 1600's there were laws requiring the growth of hemp.

More information.
http://naihc.org/hemp_information/hemp_facts.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on September 02, 2011, 12:01:40 pm
Quote
It is all C. Sativa.  Differences between varieties relate to the amount of THC in the plant.  Ranging from 0.5% to 20% in some of the "newer" stuff.

It is the same species.  Growers have just gotten really good and engineering plants that produce more THC.  The stuff that the hippies were smoking was nothing compored to the stuff now.

That said though, I think that THC should be legal on its own ground.   The help/biofeul argument is good, but not directly relevant.  Marijuana should be legal because its negative effects are marginal at worst.  It is a matter of our constitutionally protected right to the pursuit of happiness.  Of course the government has a right to bad those things which do harm society in truely systemic ways (Heroin, coke, Barney)but the line between thos the two needs to be constantly reexamined.  That said, if booze is safe, then pot should be too as it very clearly does less damage physiologically and socially than 4loco.

Ok , done with rant for now....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 02, 2011, 12:04:30 pm
It is the same species.  Growers have just gotten really good and engineering plants that produce more THC.  The stuff that the hippies were smoking was nothing compored to the stuff now.

That said though, I think that THC should be legal on its own ground.   The help/biofeul argument is good, but not directly relevant.  Marijuana should be legal because its negative effects are marginal at worst.  It is a matter of our constitutionally protected right to the pursuit of happiness.  Of course the government has a right to bad those things which do harm society in truely systemic ways (Heroin, coke, Barney)but the line between thos the two needs to be constantly reexamined.  That said, if booze is safe, then pot should be too as it very clearly does less damage physiologically and socially than 4loco.

Ok , done with rant for now....

Correct.  Should be legal for ALL reasons.  But mainly, because there is no valid excuse for it to be illegal.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 02, 2011, 12:12:52 pm
Correct.  Should be legal for ALL reasons.  But mainly, because there is no valid excuse for it to be illegal.



Having been on against it at one time, I don't think you can say the arguments are totally invalid. They simply aren't strong enough in the face of reality. That reality being that the overzealous efforts to stop marijuana use has faithfully recreated the prohibition era gangsterism. It has diminished the credibility and effectiveness of law enforcement. It is clogging our judicial system and forcing it into player status (they make as much money as the dealers). All in an effort to punish what is basically a natural urge to enjoy peace and tranquility by whatever means necessary.

Its failure pure and simple.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DanoDan on September 03, 2011, 12:15:04 am
Some info and videos related to medical marijuana can be found at http://okmedicalmarijuana.org (http://okmedicalmarijuana.org)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 15, 2011, 08:50:44 am
Having been on against it at one time, I don't think you can say the arguments are totally invalid. They simply aren't strong enough in the face of reality. That reality being that the overzealous efforts to stop marijuana use has faithfully recreated the prohibition era gangsterism. It has diminished the credibility and effectiveness of law enforcement. It is clogging our judicial system and forcing it into player status (they make as much money as the dealers). All in an effort to punish what is basically a natural urge to enjoy peace and tranquility by whatever means necessary.

Its failure pure and simple.

The only reason that ever had any possibility of being a valid argument to make marijuana illegal is that it may be a "gateway drug".  Whatever that may be...depends on the person doing the defining, I guess.  It is a meaningless term used to confuse and obfuscate.

If there were such a thing as a "gateway drug", there would be two.  Cigarettes and alcohol.  These are the two biggest predictors of addictive behavior, and yet the prohibition of both has been found to be impossible.  With cigarettes we find that at least 20% of the population has this "addictive gene".  Alcohol?  Who knows?

Back to grass; there has never been a valid argument for prohibition.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 15, 2011, 09:14:02 am


Back to grass; there has never been a valid argument for prohibition.


At least not one that makes sense to people like us.  ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2011, 09:15:21 am
Although I disagree, and do so with a wealth of experiential evidence, I have no intention of arguing a stance I no longer can justify in the face of pragmatic concerns.

Regardless of the arguments as to genetics, morality, societal degradation etc., it remains a fact that the cost to humanity of zealously persecuting, prosecuting and proselytizing is simply too costly.

I remember seeing films of chimps in the wild hanging around fruit trees and eating the rotting, fermenting fruit on the ground to get drunk and orgy. Seems like nature provides that sort of thing without any moral consequences. Of course the chimps are then helpless against predators, so natural consequences are in play. They are for humans too.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 15, 2011, 10:03:20 am
Although I disagree, and do so with a wealth of experiential evidence, I have no intention of arguing a stance I no longer can justify in the face of pragmatic concerns.

Regardless of the arguments as to genetics, morality, societal degradation etc., it remains a fact that the cost to humanity of zealously persecuting, prosecuting and proselytizing is simply too costly.

I remember seeing films of chimps in the wild hanging around fruit trees and eating the rotting, fermenting fruit on the ground to get drunk and orgy. Seems like nature provides that sort of thing without any moral consequences. Of course the chimps are then helpless against predators, so natural consequences are in play. They are for humans too.

What are the reasons against, if you still held that view?

I don't partake of the substance any more and wouldn't if it were legal, so I really don't have a horse in this race.  The only real deleterious effects of pot are a number of carcinogens (supposedly 50% more than in cigarette smoke) and mental/emotional addiction to it.  To my knowledge there's not really any sort of physical dependency issues with it.

Most people I know who do or did smoke it generally did so to relax and didn't care to do it then drive or go to the store.  Certainly, there have been auto and work accidents caused by people under the influence, but I'd argue the incidence is far less than that of people under the influence of alcohol which is a perfectly legal drug.  I'd also argue that moderate use of pot doesn't result in near the long-term health effects as alcohol does and it's toll on family life and careers isn't nearly that of alcohol either.  I'm also not aware that one could smoke enough pot in one sitting to kill themselves like other drugs or alcohol.

That said, I don't believe all drugs should be decriminalized, just pot.  This 30 year war has been a failure.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 10:12:03 am


I remember seeing films of chimps in the wild hanging around fruit trees and eating the rotting, fermenting fruit on the ground to get drunk and orgy. Seems like nature provides that sort of thing without any moral consequences. Of course the chimps are then helpless against predators, so natural consequences are in play. They are for humans too.

"Animals are Beautiful People" is the film you are thinking of.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5E5TjkDvU0[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 10:18:04 am
I think it should be decriminalized as well. Like several others I used it years ago (30+), I don't think I would run out and buy swome if it was legal. But the thing that gets me is it is clasified as a Class 1 Drug, which is considered more dangerous than Class 2 drugs that include cocaine, morphine, and oxycodone.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 15, 2011, 10:22:02 am
I think it should be decriminalized as well. Like several others I used it years ago (30+), I don't think I would run out and buy swome if it was legal. But the thing that gets me is it is clasified as a Class 1 Drug, which is considered more dangerous than Class 2 drugs that include cocaine, morphine, and oxycodone.

And have you ever tried to bake morphine into anything made by Betty Crocker?  #tastesofass


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 10:41:33 am
And have you ever tried to bake morphine into anything made by Betty Crocker?  #tastesofass

Can't say that I have, but then again I was never interested in "hard drugs" at all.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 15, 2011, 10:46:09 am
Can't say that I have, but then again I was never interested in "hard drugs" at all.

*Cough*pot brownies*cough*


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 10:53:06 am
*Cough*pot brownies*cough*

Did make lunch time in my teens a lot more interesting.  ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 15, 2011, 11:01:50 am
Did make lunch time in my teens a lot more interesting.  ;)

OK, just making sure you were still with me.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2011, 11:10:35 am
"Animals are Beautiful People" is the film you are thinking of.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5E5TjkDvU0[/youtube]


Love that film. Not sure its the same one I saw some 40 years ago but hilarious anyway.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2011, 11:48:31 am
What are the reasons against, if you still held that view?

I don't partake of the substance any more and wouldn't if it were legal, so I really don't have a horse in this race.  The only real deleterious effects of pot are a number of carcinogens (supposedly 50% more than in cigarette smoke) and mental/emotional addiction to it.  To my knowledge there's not really any sort of physical dependency issues with it.

Most people I know who do or did smoke it generally did so to relax and didn't care to do it then drive or go to the store.  Certainly, there have been auto and work accidents caused by people under the influence, but I'd argue the incidence is far less than that of people under the influence of alcohol which is a perfectly legal drug.  I'd also argue that moderate use of pot doesn't result in near the long-term health effects as alcohol does and it's toll on family life and careers isn't nearly that of alcohol either.  I'm also not aware that one could smoke enough pot in one sitting to kill themselves like other drugs or alcohol.

That said, I don't believe all drugs should be decriminalized, just pot.  This 30 year war has been a failure.

Ok. Well...first compare the level of THC from 30 years ago to today. We were getting relaxed. Like my dad having a shot of Scotch after a hard day. At today's levels you're getting hammered. The results have been different as well. We got the munchies, got stupid, got laid and continued to keep our jobs and get our education. As many of you noted, it was a phase. Today, you still get the munchies but you get lethargic, lose your job, lose your short term memory, lose your focus, and likely stay stupid longer. Music and film education has become outstanding but ask the 18 year old in your workplace to tell you what % 16 is of 24 and get it on video. Long term studies are starting to come to fruition and from what I've heard the results aren't pretty.

Answer this question truthfully. Do you think the de-criminalization of marijuana, based on the argument that other drugs and alcohol are legal, will increase or decrease usage of the drug? And corollary questions...Will de-criminalization result in the corporatizing of the drugs production and marketing? Will you feel any safer knowing that you're being served by someone who is or recently was legally hammered?

I think it will increase usage and result in the passage of tons of regulations and lawsuits over who can and can't produce and sell it based on the history of moonshining. The long term usage negative health results, which beside cancer, may include permanent changes in brain function, genetic damage and early onset diabetes more than offset its relaxation abilities even if it is not a "gateway" drug. And I think it is incorrect to believe that where you buy your drugs has no impact on what other drugs you may buy. When I go to the liquor store for a bottle of wine and see cherry flavored Vodka, the weekend just got a little fuzzier. ;)

Then imagine the change in societal norms from that increased, broadened usage. Truth is, stupid people make decisions that hamper all our lives and this puts more stupid people on the streets. One of the largest train accidents in our history was because an engineer was smoking a blunt in the locomotive. Good thing he wasn't a pilot.

Pragmatically its a losing game to use so much of our resources to fight it in the way we've chosen. Its simply stupid. It should be decriminalized but I would hope we can do so without opening the door to wide scale corporate marketing of the drug.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 12:12:46 pm
Would you know if your being served by someone who is illegally hammered now? Visine and a change of clothes can hide the facts.

Would you feel safer is was decriminalized and produced by companies that had regulations that they had to follow as does the tobacco and alchohol manufactures do now?

There would probablly be an increase of usage of course, because people who used it recreationaly in their youth, could use it again. As for myself I doubt that I would. Yes it would also increase regulations on enforcement (ie workplace usage) but that would be similar to other regulations already in place. (yes I know that it shows for a number of days in you system after usage) There would have to be a scale developed to show imparement similar to alchohol, but you can also be arre3sted and charged with DUI if you are taking medication prescibed to you, why do you think most drugs have a warning on them about driving or operating heavy equipment while using the medication. (Besides the obvious attempt of the mfg's covering their donkey to prevent a lawsuit)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 15, 2011, 12:29:07 pm
I've spent a fair amount of time in Colorado this year.  I'm amazed at how pervasive the medial MJ business has gotten there.  It's simply an end-run around existing laws, and you can be pretty certain the people dispensing it are under the influence or have been at some point recently.

What are some of the acceptable diagnoses which will get you a prescription?  Depression, anxiety, insomnia... get it?  Pay a shrink $100 for a scrip and you are good to go.

Aqua, I've read and heard of the study results like you have and don't disagree there are other long-term effects of pot.  I really don't know if more people would use or not if it were legal.  It would not be an incentive to me as I like having full lung capacity and don't want them pasted up with tar.  I did enough damage over the years with smoking.  There's all sorts of long term health issues with drugs we choose to keep legal like tobacco and alcohol too.  Many of the same maladies as you outlined with the dope can be found with heavy alcohol use.

We simply have to get a handle on how many people we incarcerate and this is one thing which would help, as well as trying to rehabilitate end users of other drugs rather than incarceration.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2011, 01:28:59 pm
Would you know if your being served by someone who is illegally hammered now? Visine and a change of clothes can hide the facts.

Having much experience during the last couple of decades with users both at the workplace and in the family, yes, I would know. But I won't be able to see the cook, the pilot, the truck driver, the corporates etc. They have been fooling their bosses and family for years and will continue to do so.

Would you feel safer is was decriminalized and produced by companies that had regulations that they had to follow as does the tobacco and alchohol manufactures do now?

No. I don't trust the tobacco and alcohol manufacturers any more than I do drug dealers who cut their product or lace it with who knows what. They are all liars with low integrity. Wine has antifreeze in it. Cigarettes have really weird carcinogens in them. Bath salts. Enough said.

There would probablly be an increase of usage of course, because people who used it recreationaly in their youth, could use it again. As for myself I doubt that I would. Yes it would also increase regulations on enforcement (ie workplace usage) but that would be similar to other regulations already in place. (yes I know that it shows for a number of days in you system after usage) There would have to be a scale developed to show imparement similar to alchohol, but you can also be arre3sted and charged with DUI if you are taking medication prescibed to you, why do you think most drugs have a warning on them about driving or operating heavy equipment while using the medication. (Besides the obvious attempt of the mfg's covering their donkey to prevent a lawsuit)

I think the increase would tend to broaden out over time as sophisticated marketers get a grip on how to sell the stuff to different demographics without totally exposing themselves. At what age is consumption legal? At what levels? At what legal exposure? I think its a can of worms whose regulation and legal impact will make the health care proposals look simplistic. States will want to control but the Fed will resist. But, I know its indefensible the way we handle it now. And, I know I could be wrong. Users at least need to stop being punished with a sledgehammer.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2011, 01:35:05 pm
I've spent a fair amount of time in Colorado this year.  I'm amazed at how pervasive the medial MJ business has gotten there.  It's simply an end-run around existing laws, and you can be pretty certain the people dispensing it are under the influence or have been at some point recently.

What are some of the acceptable diagnoses which will get you a prescription?  Depression, anxiety, insomnia... get it?  Pay a shrink $100 for a scrip and you are good to go.

Aqua, I've read and heard of the study results like you have and don't disagree there are other long-term effects of pot.  I really don't know if more people would use or not if it were legal.  It would not be an incentive to me as I like having full lung capacity and don't want them pasted up with tar.  I did enough damage over the years with smoking.  There's all sorts of long term health issues with drugs we choose to keep legal like tobacco and alcohol too.  Many of the same maladies as you outlined with the dope can be found with heavy alcohol use.

We simply have to get a handle on how many people we incarcerate and this is one thing which would help, as well as trying to rehabilitate end users of other drugs rather than incarceration.

I very much agree with your last statement.

There is lots of controversy in Colorado and California as regards the medical usage. Many small communities are up in arms. Both states have movements to restrict or eliminate them. That is a preview of what would happen nationally.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 15, 2011, 01:37:23 pm
I very much agree with your last statement.

There is lots of controversy in Colorado and California as regards the medical usage. Many small communities are up in arms. Both states have movements to restrict or eliminate them. That is a preview of what would happen nationally.

Nationally, you could never get enough consensus, so I suspect it will be a state-by-state issue.  Are California and Colorado the only ones so far?  I would have thought Oregon and Vermont would have passed it by now.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on September 15, 2011, 03:01:11 pm
It would not be an incentive to me as I like having full lung capacity and don't want them pasted up with tar toxins in the Tulsa air we breath.  I did enough damage over the years with smoking.  There's all sorts of long term health issues with drugs we choose to keep legal like tobacco and alcohol too.  Many of the same maladies as you outlined with the dope can be found with heavy alcohol use and genetic disorders.

We simply have to get a handle on how many people we incarcerate and this is one thing which would help, as well as trying to rehabilitate end users of other drugs rather than incarceration.

Love fixing up your posts.  ;)

Let's use the Portugal system. Well, that might be at conflict with our Afghanistan strategy of protecting the poppy distribution network.

Keep it illegal. Tattoo and massage parlors along with bars and restaurants leave enough retail for money laundering. Government regulation doesn't work if you'll recall. I've learned so much here at TNF. Too bad about Gweed. I had to start listening to hate radio to get educated...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on September 15, 2011, 09:20:32 pm
This is good.
Violent Attack At Marijuana Rally Ignored By Police
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/09/violent_attack_at_marijuana_rally_ignored_by_polic.php

Culture war...it's part of the GOP playbook.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 10:04:45 pm

Here is some info from Arizona:

Quote
Three-quarters of approved patients are men and about 60 percent are older than 41. But the department said two minors have also had applications approved. The vast majority of applicants cited chronic pain as the reason they needed medical marijuana.

Close to 80 percent of applicants have asked for approval to grow their own marijuana, which is allowed under Arizona law for anyone who does not live within 25 miles of a dispensary. Individuals approved to grow their own can legally maintain up to 12 plants in their homes and caregivers can grow for up to five patients at a time.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2011/07/14/20110714arizona-medical-marijuana-cards-0714.html (http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2011/07/14/20110714arizona-medical-marijuana-cards-0714.html)



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 15, 2011, 10:29:28 pm
This is good.
Violent Attack At Marijuana Rally Ignored By Police
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/09/violent_attack_at_marijuana_rally_ignored_by_polic.php

Culture war...it's part of the GOP playbook.

Probably a drunk Tea Bagger, no doubt.  That or stoned on a legal Lortab prescription...

I question whether or not these were real potheads or plants.  Most heads I know wouldn't have the attention span for a one hour protest:

"J. would not go with the ambulance; he said he was not going to put his life in their hands after the way the cops 'kept peace' in Lansing!"

According to Zig Zag Man, J. is still in a lot of pain; his muscles were wrenched when his head was turned too far by being hit with a sign. He'll be seeing a doctor on Tuesday.

"What great people us 'potheads,' are," Zig Zag man wrote. "Thank you to all that cooperated for the one hour before the smile hit the fan. Boy, a couple of these women were right in his face. What was sort of funny was for every bit of Scripture he tried to spout, five or 10 people were yelling back at him the opposing Scripture. He could not believe potheads actually knew about the Bible!

"I could not have been prouder of all the people at the rally... Thank you all!"

Pothead FAIL!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 11:19:49 pm
Probably a drunk Tea Bagger, no doubt.  That or stoned on a legal Lortab prescription...
I question whether or not these were real potheads or plants.  Most heads I know wouldn't have the attention span for a one hour protest:
"J. would not go with the ambulance; he said he was not going to put his life in their hands after the way the cops 'kept peace' in Lansing!"
According to Zig Zag Man, J. is still in a lot of pain; his muscles were wrenched when his head was turned too far by being hit with a sign. He'll be seeing a doctor on Tuesday.
"What great people us 'potheads,' are," Zig Zag man wrote. "Thank you to all that cooperated for the one hour before the smile hit the fan. Boy, a couple of these women were right in his face. What was sort of funny was for every bit of Scripture he tried to spout, five or 10 people were yelling back at him the opposing Scripture. He could not believe potheads actually knew about the Bible!
"I could not have been prouder of all the people at the rally... Thank you all!"Pothead FAIL!

I saw more violence at a Walmart in Sun City watching little old ladies fight over the new items on the $1.00 or less table when they bring out new items.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on September 16, 2011, 12:31:00 pm

I question whether or not these were real potheads or plants.  Most heads I know wouldn't have the attention span for a one hour protest:

"J. would not go with the ambulance; he said he was not going to put his life in their hands after the way the cops 'kept peace' in Lansing!"

According to Zig Zag Man, J. is still in a lot of pain; his muscles were wrenched when his head was turned too far by being hit with a sign. He'll be seeing a doctor on Tuesday.

"What great people us 'potheads,' are," Zig Zag man wrote. "Thank you to all that cooperated for the one hour before the smile hit the fan. Boy, a couple of these women were right in his face. What was sort of funny was for every bit of Scripture he tried to spout, five or 10 people were yelling back at him the opposing Scripture. He could not believe potheads actually knew about the Bible!

"I could not have been prouder of all the people at the rally... Thank you all!"

Pothead FAIL!



They are shills for money launderers....Mexican drug lords ??

Actually, Fast food and doob seem to be the perfect combo for keeping a revolution at bay.

I just realized I can't post a pic....

Conan, I know you still would do a big fattie. :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 16, 2011, 03:30:55 pm
They are shills for money launderers....Mexican drug lords ??

Actually, Fast food and doob seem to be the perfect combo for keeping a revolution at bay.

I just realized I can't post a pic....

Conan, I know you still would do a big fattie. :D

No, I quit doing fatties at about the same time I quit smoking doobies ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on September 16, 2011, 08:03:27 pm
pot should be legal in its own grounds.  Pragmatic arguments are distractions.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 17, 2011, 10:50:23 am
Really.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 17, 2011, 07:34:32 pm
Answer this question truthfully. Do you think the de-criminalization of marijuana, based on the argument that other drugs and alcohol are legal, will increase or decrease usage of the drug? And corollary questions...Will de-criminalization result in the corporatizing of the drugs production and marketing? Will you feel any safer knowing that you're being served by someone who is or recently was legally hammered?

I think it will increase usage and result in the passage of tons of regulations and lawsuits over who can and can't produce and sell it based on the history of moonshining. The long term usage negative health results, which beside cancer, may include permanent changes in brain function, genetic damage and early onset diabetes more than offset its relaxation abilities even if it is not a "gateway" drug. And I think it is incorrect to believe that where you buy your drugs has no impact on what other drugs you may buy. When I go to the liquor store for a bottle of wine and see cherry flavored Vodka, the weekend just got a little fuzzier. ;)


In a reality based world, we have experience on a nationwide scale - as I have posted here before.  And not the Netherlands.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 18, 2011, 12:04:58 pm
In a reality based world, we have experience on a nationwide scale - as I have posted here before.  And not the Netherlands.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html




Make note that the study was by the Libertarian Cato Institute. Might as well have the Catholic church do a study on the efficacy of birth control methods.

Want to talk reality? Take this paragraph-
At the recommendation of a national commission charged with addressing Portugal's drug problem, jail time was replaced with the offer of therapy. The argument was that the fear of prison drives addicts underground and that incarceration is more expensive than treatment — so why not give drug addicts health services instead? Under Portugal's new regime, people found guilty of possessing small amounts of drugs are sent to a panel consisting of a psychologist, social worker and legal adviser for appropriate treatment (which may be refused without criminal punishment), instead of jail.


We don't live in Europe. We aren't much like people in Portugal or Spain or France. You simply cannot confuse Americans with facts and expect them to respond with a reasonable approach to punishment, drug therapy and best use of resources.  That is fantasy.

First, find a president that has the fortitude to even propose such a commission. He won't be black or liberal I assure you. If we elected Ron Paul and I would say this process would work here as it would signal a quantum change in political outlook. Until then the Portugal experience will be pooh poohed by conservatives, hard liners from all sides and fundamental fanaticists who still think drug users are simply basically evil or under the spell of Satan.

Let me re-emphasize that I believe in de-criminalization of a lot of drug classifications. I just don't believe that we are ready to intelligently evolve to panels of psychologists, social workers and legal reps that refer drug users to treatment. Wish we were.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on September 19, 2011, 11:44:54 am
Clearing the Smoke: The Science of Cannabis

http://video.pbs.org/video/1825223761?starttime=1200000


Take an hour and you will probably learn something useful; might just save your life someday. You'll want to move to Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Vermont, or California. Healthier states for aging boomers....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 19, 2011, 11:56:13 am
Clearing the Smoke: The Science of Cannabis

http://video.pbs.org/video/1825223761?starttime=1200000


Take an hour and you will probably learn something useful; might just save your life someday. You'll want to move to Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Vermont, or California. Healthier states for aging boomers.... Dead heads

FIFY  ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 19, 2011, 12:25:10 pm
Biggest problem is how we have shut down even the research on the chemicals that have the benefits.  I would just as soon take a pill with the proper stuff in it.  Don't have to smoke a joint to benefit from the stuff.


Plus what we miss out on for energy self sufficiency.  But we really aren't interested in that, are we?

C   Corn        200 bu/acre @ 56 lb/bushel   1200 lbs    .6 ton
S   Switchgrass   4-6 ton per acre             8,000 lbs   4 ton
H   Hemp            12-14 ton per acre          24,000 lbs  12 ton

During World War I - Biomass yield
WWI      German   50 gal/ton
      US      25 gal/ton - faster throughput

German   C   50 x .6      30 gal
      S   50 x 4      200 gal
      H   50 x 10   500 gal

US      C   25 x .6      15 gal
      S   25 x 4      100 gal
      H   25 x 10   250 gal


US oil useage   19,500,000 barrels/day (we are down from this)
Gallons          819,000,000 gallons/day
            
At 50 gal per ton, need 819,000,000/50 = 16,380,000 tons biomass per day.
At 14 ton per acre, need 16,380,000/14 = 1,170,000 acres per day equivalent of growing biomass.
At 365 days per year, need 27860 x 365 = 427,050,000 acres.
At 640 acres per square mile, need 10,167,858/640 = 667,266 square miles of growing biomass.

Area of state in square miles - just 8 states!

Nebraska    77,421 sq. miles
Kansas      82,264
South Dakota   77,353
Oklahoma   69,899
Texas      268,580
Wyoming   97,813
Montana   147,042
Sub total         820,372

Missouri   69,704
Virginia   42,774
Next Sub total         932,850

Even if we just used part of our farmland, and maybe some marginal land, we could easily cover today's needs.  And it would be very easy to just use MJ for part of our energy needs.  Suppose we only grow half... then we are at energy self-sufficiency.  No more foreign imports.

Yeah, off topic.  But it really IS a part of the total topic - stupid drug laws!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 19, 2011, 12:29:20 pm
Don't grow it in Texas. When the wildfires hit them the South winds blow the smoke up here. Everyone gets high and stops working, then the Fed sticks us with a dirty air violation.!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: custosnox on September 19, 2011, 12:59:36 pm
Biggest problem is how we have shut down even the research on the chemicals that have the benefits.  I would just as soon take a pill with the proper stuff in it.  Don't have to smoke a joint to benefit from the stuff.


Plus what we miss out on for energy self sufficiency.  But we really aren't interested in that, are we?

C   Corn        200 bu/acre @ 56 lb/bushel   1200 lbs    .6 ton
S   Switchgrass   4-6 ton per acre             8,000 lbs   4 ton
H   Hemp            12-14 ton per acre          24,000 lbs  12 ton

During World War I - Biomass yield
WWI      German   50 gal/ton
      US      25 gal/ton - faster throughput

German   C   50 x .6      30 gal
      S   50 x 4      200 gal
      H   50 x 10   500 gal

US      C   25 x .6      15 gal
      S   25 x 4      100 gal
      H   25 x 10   250 gal


US oil useage   19,500,000 barrels/day (we are down from this)
Gallons          819,000,000 gallons/day
            
At 50 gal per ton, need 819,000,000/50 = 16,380,000 tons biomass per day.
At 14 ton per acre, need 16,380,000/14 = 1,170,000 acres per day equivalent of growing biomass.
At 365 days per year, need 27860 x 365 = 427,050,000 acres.
At 640 acres per square mile, need 10,167,858/640 = 667,266 square miles of growing biomass.

Area of state in square miles - just 8 states!

Nebraska    77,421 sq. miles
Kansas      82,264
South Dakota   77,353
Oklahoma   69,899
Texas      268,580
Wyoming   97,813
Montana   147,042
Sub total         820,372

Missouri   69,704
Virginia   42,774
Next Sub total         932,850

Even if we just used part of our farmland, and maybe some marginal land, we could easily cover today's needs.  And it would be very easy to just use MJ for part of our energy needs.  Suppose we only grow half... then we are at energy self-sufficiency.  No more foreign imports.

Yeah, off topic.  But it really IS a part of the total topic - stupid drug laws!




Why do you keep trying to push MJ as Hemp?  They are not the same, so stop trying to pretend they are.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 19, 2011, 01:05:45 pm
Is hemp subject to the same status legally as marijuana?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 19, 2011, 04:15:30 pm
Why do you keep trying to push MJ as Hemp?  They are not the same, so stop trying to pretend they are.

Cannabis sativa.  Either one or both or all of them or each of them or whatever....ALL should get off the criminal lists.  If so much difference, why will you be busted for hemp cultivation?  All imprisoned for just MJ or hemp should be out of prison.

The difference is so subtle as to be meaningless.  MJ has a few % (2 -20), hemp has very low % (less than 1).  C. sativa sativa is better fiber.  C sativa indica is better smoke.  And it is selective breeding, mostly since the 30's that has caused the big differentiation.

For energy production, it doesn't really matter which one you use - either or both will solve the problem, so if it can be a multi-use product, more power to it.  So again, why do we continue our inane, anal-retentive insanity??






Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: custosnox on September 19, 2011, 09:45:37 pm
Legally Hemp is placed in the same classification as Marijuana, and it was placed their out of ignorance.  Simply put, it was put in the same classification as Marijuana because the law makers only knew that they were both Cannabis, without understanding the difference between the two.  Of course, I also think the pot smokers who push this issue of the "miracle plant" also over estimate it's abilities to the point of fantasy, but that is another argument all together.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 20, 2011, 09:41:15 am
Legally Hemp is placed in the same classification as Marijuana, and it was placed their out of ignorance.  Simply put, it was put in the same classification as Marijuana because the law makers only knew that they were both Cannabis, without understanding the difference between the two.  Of course, I also think the pot smokers who push this issue of the "miracle plant" also over estimate it's abilities to the point of fantasy, but that is another argument all together.

Well, if there is such a thing as a point of fantasy or an over estimation, let's hear it.  Exactly where in all the legalization arguments do the exaggerations exist?

Benefit to sick people?  Well documented by many users that there is a real live clinical benefit to pain relief, nausea relief, appetite action important to cancer patients to let them eat, pressure relief in eyes for glaucoma.  More than enough evidence to not only justify, but demand that larger, formal study of the plant be done.

Fuel?  We have hundreds if not thousands of years of documented experience regarding yields for cannabis S.  It IS the 'magic bullet' that we could use today to start to relieve our energy dependence on foreign supply.  But then, we could actually do that anyway if the oil companies would just drill and produce in the OTHER 75% of the lands they already have available and proven for drilling and production.

Paper?  Well, there is certainly enough room to add a little bit more growing space to provide for paper production.  It has been done before and could easily be done again.  PLUS save a whole bunch of trees in the process.  And we haven't even talked about how much room Canada has that would also be good for growing, and since they are so closely tied to us, it would benefit both.

Clothing?  Lots of clothing fiber already starting to show up.  Easier and cheaper to grow, less environmentally unfriendly that either cotton OR the popular synthetics (oil based) used today.

Cosmetic related?  I see all kinds of hemp derived 'stuff in bottles' at the department stores.  All garbage to me, but lots of people seem to get into that kind of thing.

Recreational use?  Well, we all are pretty much aware of the benefits and the FACT that the downsides are orders of magnitude (that means dramatically) less than the comparative alternative products.  (Any and all of the alternatively used recreational chemicals, including but not limited to; opiates - natural and synthetic, cigarettes, and all flavors of alcohol.)

I submit that it is a lot like aspirin - arguably one of the more important "miracle drugs" - in that this one item excels in so many different applications/uses.

I would like to see one single area pointed out where the hype of "miracle plant" goes even a little bit beyond the reality.  Got one??  
Come on now...you brought up the pot smokers pushing the issue of 'miracle plant' - a lot of non-smokers push the same issue (me!)...show just one exaggeration!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 20, 2011, 10:13:31 am
So, Hemp could be the Peanut of the 21st century ala George Washington Carver?

What would massive devotion to Hemp cultivation do to the soil? I wasn't joking about not having Texas grow it because of fires and air pollution. If we start to use it as a fuel source it would be more subject to the fluctuations of weather and fire than petroleum supplies are.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on September 20, 2011, 10:36:11 am
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRm1yqSmsGY[/youtube]

Lighten up!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 20, 2011, 12:09:37 pm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRm1yqSmsGY[/youtube]

Lighten up!

It would help my motherf@#king Tourette's?

Awesome!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 20, 2011, 12:50:10 pm
So, Hemp could be the Peanut of the 21st century ala George Washington Carver?

What would massive devotion to Hemp cultivation do to the soil? I wasn't joking about not having Texas grow it because of fires and air pollution. If we start to use it as a fuel source it would be more subject to the fluctuations of weather and fire than petroleum supplies are.

That's why earlier in this post I mentioned using it as a partial solution.  In addition to wind, solar, and oil.  The more diversified the base sources, the less susceptible to major disruption.  Remember the 70's oil embargo - and the ensuing stupid panic??  Yeah, I know, contrived.  In exact same fashion as the Enron/Williams Co/Devon Energy contrived energy emergency in California.  If there are other sources to take up the slack, there is less disruption.  Always.

As far as the soil, well it grows pretty well in really mediocre soil...as well as good soil.  Doesn't require anywhere near the fertilizer that corn does.  Nor insecticides.  It is no "candy-donkey" plant that needs a lot of "hand holding" or coddling like cotton or corn.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: custosnox on September 20, 2011, 04:44:31 pm
That's why earlier in this post I mentioned using it as a partial solution. 
This is what I meant by the overestimation of the ability of the plant.  Yes, it (hemp, not Marijuana, don't confuse the two) has a lot of uses, and is very versatile, but it is not the end all and be all of all of the problems we have.  Yet it is toted in such a way by so many of the pro Marijuana crowd (can we say coattails?) that it is given the appearance of being the final solution to 100% of today's woes (yes, Hyperbole, but not by much).  It has it's limitations, and, as you say, is only a partial solution. 

Personally, I think that Hemp should be completely legal and put into production.  In fact, and I'm not positive about this, but I could swear I read somewhere that Hemp cultivation is actually GOOD for the soil.  I think we would benefit from it immensely, and that the stupidity of those who made the whole kit and caboodle has truly hurt this country.  As far as Marijuana goes, the "medical" benefits are still greatly debated.  For every report that shows how it "helped" someone, you can find a like one comparing it to a placebo.  But at the same time, I don't think that we should be filling our prisons with pot-heads just because they want to get stoned.  It just gets me how it is supposedly non-addictive, yet smokers fight so hard to be able to smoke it. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 21, 2011, 04:43:56 pm
Personally, I think that Hemp should be completely legal and put into production.  In fact, and I'm not positive about this, but I could swear I read somewhere that Hemp cultivation is actually GOOD for the soil.  I think we would benefit from it immensely, and that the stupidity of those who made the whole kit and caboodle has truly hurt this country.  As far as Marijuana goes, the "medical" benefits are still greatly debated.  For every report that shows how it "helped" someone, you can find a like one comparing it to a placebo.  But at the same time, I don't think that we should be filling our prisons with pot-heads just because they want to get stoned.  It just gets me how it is supposedly non-addictive, yet smokers fight so hard to be able to smoke it. 

They are too mellow to fight too hard.  Otherwise you would see the kind of battles that occurred with alcohol prohibition.  And the absolute insanity of smokers when the first no smoking in public places - like airplanes - rules came about.  All that crap about "their rights" being trampled.  BS.  Biggest bunch of whiners in the world.

Good for the soil?  Don't know about that...it is not a legume, it is Cannabaceae.  My thought would be that the benefit to soil would be only for the organic matter residues it leaves.  It won't fix nitrogen like the legumes will.  The best plant in this country for soil?  Alfalfa by far.

Medical benefits...only real doubt is raised by the same kind of people who think we are not having increased climate volatility.  (Notice I did NOT say global warming, nor did I say that it was human made.  Reference the Vostok ice core data.)  The volatility is a fact.  The only question(s) are why/how/when/where.  What has already been answered.

Which means we should study the plant for a wide variety of possible uses.  And since it has no significant deleterious effects compared to other legal recreationals, then if we are going to claim to be a free society, there is no justification for prohibition.  And insanity to put people in prison for use/possession.  Not to mention a multi-billion dollar expense that we should be saving.









Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 20, 2012, 08:19:03 pm
Back when he was running for president in 2008, Barack Obama insisted that medical marijuana was an issue best left to state and local governments. "I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws on this issue," he vowed, promising an end to the Bush administration's high-profile raids on providers of medical pot, which is legal in 16 states and the District of Columbia.

But over the past year, the Obama administration has quietly unleashed a multi­agency crackdown on medical cannabis that goes far beyond anything undertaken by George W. Bush. The feds are busting growers who operate in full compliance with state laws, vowing to seize the property of anyone who dares to even rent to legal pot dispensaries, and threatening to imprison state employees responsible for regulating medical marijuana. With more than 100 raids on pot dispensaries during his first three years, Obama is now on pace to exceed Bush's record for medical-marijuana busts. "There's no question that Obama's the worst president on medical marijuana," says Rob Kampia, executive director of the Marijuana Policy Project. "He's gone from first to worst."

The federal crackdown imperils the medical care of the estimated 730,000 patients nationwide – many of them seriously ill or dying – who rely on state-sanctioned marijuana recommended by their doctors. In addition, drug experts warn, the White House's war on law-abiding providers of medical marijuana will only drum up business for real criminals. "The administration is going after legal dispensaries and state and local authorities in ways that are going to push this stuff back underground again," says Ethan Nadelmann, director of the Drug Policy Alliance. Gov. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, a former Republican senator who has urged the DEA to legalize medical marijuana, pulls no punches in describing the state of affairs produced by Obama's efforts to circumvent state law: "Utter chaos."

In its first two years, the Obama administration took a refreshingly sane approach to medical marijuana. Shortly after Obama took office, a senior drug-enforcement official pledged to Rolling Stone that the question of whether marijuana is medicine would now be determined by science, "not ideology." In March 2009, Attorney General Eric Holder emphasized that the Justice Department would only target medical-marijuana providers "who violate both federal and state law." The next morning, a headline in The New York Times read OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO STOP RAIDS ON MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSERS. While all forms of marijuana would remain strictly illegal under federal law – the DEA ranks cannabis as a Schedule I drug, on par with heroin – the feds would respect state protections for providers of medical pot. Framing the Obama administration's new approach, drug czar Gil Kerlikowske famously declared, "We're not at war with people in this country."

That original hands-off policy was codified in a Justice Department memo written in October 2009 by Deputy Attorney General David Ogden. The so-called "Ogden memo" advised federal law-enforcement officials that the "rational use of its limited investigative and prosecutorial resources" meant that medical-marijuana patients and their "caregivers" who operate in "clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state law" could be left alone.

At the same time, Ogden was concerned that the feds not "be made a fool of" by illegal drug traffickers. In that vein, his memo advised U.S. attorneys to focus on going after pot dispensaries that posed as medicinal but were actively engaged in criminal acts, such as selling to minors, possession of illegal firearms or money-laundering. The idea, as Holder put it, was to raid only those hardcore traffickers who "use medical-marijuana laws as a shield."

The Ogden memo sent a clear message to the states: The feds will only intervene if you allow pot dispensaries to operate as a front for criminal activity. States from New Mexico to Maine moved quickly to license and regulate dispensaries through their state health departments – giving medical marijuana unprecedented legitimacy. In California, which had allowed "caregivers" to operate dispensaries, medical pot blossomed into a $1.3 billion enterprise – shielded from federal blowback by the Ogden memo.

The administration's recognition of medical cannabis reached its high-water mark in July 2010, when the Department of Veterans Affairs validated it as a legitimate course of treatment for soldiers returning from the front lines. But it didn't take long for the fragile federal detente to begin to collapse. The reversal began at the Drug Enforcement Agency with Michele Leonhart, a holdover from the Bush administration who was renominated by Obama to head the DEA. An anti-medical-marijuana hard-liner, Leonhart had been rebuked in 2008 by House Judiciary chairman John Conyers for targeting dispensaries with tactics "typically reserved for the worst drug traffickers and kingpins." Her views on the larger drug war are so perverse, in fact, that last year she cited the slaughter of nearly 1,000 Mexican children by the drug cartels as a counterintuitive "sign of success in the fight against drugs."

In January 2011, weeks after Leonhart was confirmed, her agency updated a paper called "The DEA Position on Marijuana." With subject headings like THE FALLACY OF MARIJUANA FOR MEDICINAL USE and SMOKED MARIJUANA IS NOT MEDICINE, the paper simply regurgitated the Bush administration's ideological stance, in an attempt to walk back the Ogden memo. Sounding like Glenn Beck, the DEA even blamed "George Soros" and "a few billionaires, not broad grassroots support" for sustaining the medical-marijuana movement – even though polls show that 70 percent of Americans approve of medical pot.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/obamas-war-on-pot-20120216#ixzz1myjmGDLW


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on February 20, 2012, 09:37:20 pm
I'm holding out hopes he gives in on States rights and may actually support Federal decrim. But he can't do that before the election. In fact, he must play hard ball for now!....

(http://)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 20, 2012, 11:20:23 pm
I'm holding out hopes he gives in on States rights and may actually support Federal decrim. But he can't do that before the election. In fact, he must play hard ball for now!....

I'm figuring he's spent the last three and a half years figuring out who to pander to in order to get re-elected.  Once that is no longer a priority, there is a good chance he might actually accomplish something he promised.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 08, 2012, 01:00:35 pm
Maybe he needs it for pain, and is just trying to avoid the Rush Limbaugh Oxycontin route...


RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson says marijuana should be legalized and treated like alcohol because the government's war on drugs has failed.
The outspoken evangelical Christian and host of "The 700 Club" on the Virginia Beach-based Christian Broadcasting Network he founded said the war on drugs is costing taxpayers billions of dollars. He said people should not be sent to prison for marijuana possession.

In a statement Thursday, Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, said Robertson's "clearly stated and well-reasoned comments throw a curve ball into the growing debate over legalizing marijuana."
"Defenders of marijuana prohibition ... must be wondering if it's only a matter of time before theirs proves to be a lost cause," he said.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on March 08, 2012, 01:26:12 pm
Quote
Maybe he needs it for pain, and is just trying to avoid the Rush Limbaugh Oxycontin route...


RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson says marijuana should be legalized and treated like alcohol because the government's war on drugs has failed.
The outspoken evangelical Christian and host of "The 700 Club" on the Virginia Beach-based Christian Broadcasting Network he founded said the war on drugs is costing taxpayers billions of dollars. He said people should not be sent to prison for marijuana possession.

In a statement Thursday, Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, said Robertson's "clearly stated and well-reasoned comments throw a curve ball into the growing debate over legalizing marijuana."
"Defenders of marijuana prohibition ... must be wondering if it's only a matter of time before theirs proves to be a lost cause," he said.

In other news, Satan and Hitler are having a snowball fight in hell.....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 08, 2012, 01:33:07 pm
In other news, Satan and Hitler are having a snowball fight in hell.....

He has talked about this for a while now.  He recognizes that the 'war on drugs' has been an abject failure.  If you keep doing the same thing after 100 years and it still doesn't work, it's time to try something else.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on March 08, 2012, 01:33:48 pm
Quote
He has talked about this for a while now.  He recognizes that the 'war on drugs' has been an abject failure.  If you keep doing the same thing after 100 years and it still doesn't work, it's time to try something else.

Communist.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 08, 2012, 01:35:11 pm
Communist.

Me or Pat Robertson?

(Answer; neither.)



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on March 08, 2012, 01:41:02 pm
Quote
Me or Pat Robertson?

(Answer; neither.)


Both.  Why not?  It was sarcasm either way.  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 08, 2012, 01:48:06 pm


Both.  Why not?  It was sarcasm either way.  ;D

Yeah...I know....

I am probably closer than PR, but still a long ways away.  I have both Marx's Communist Manifesto and Mao's 'Little Red Book'.  They both read a lot like the RWRE nonsense verbally spewed on KRMG.  Take a little tiny grain of truth and weave a tapestry of crap around it.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 10, 2012, 10:25:44 am
Vinita PD and Craig County deputies take a drug dealer off the streets (at least those streets that are handicap accessible).

http://www.fox23.com/mostpopular/story/Deputies-find-pot-277-000-in-73-year-old-womans/g1ML55dBqUGxyhznY5hgDA.cspx

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/17374197_BG2.jpg)

VINITA - A Craig County drug task force serving a search warrant late Monday seized about $277,000 in cash from the home of a 73-year-old woman, Craig County Sheriff Jimmie Sooter said.
“She said the money was hers, that it was for retirement. Of course, once we got into it, it was pretty obvious it wasn’t hers.”


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on April 10, 2012, 11:51:13 am
I’m sorry, why did you post this in a thread on medical marijuana?

Quote
A 73-year old is in the Craig County Jail after deputies found five pounds of pot inside her house on Monday night.

The Craig County Sheriff says they had been watching Darlene Mays’ home, which is five miles east of Vinita, for five months before serving a search warrant on Monday night.

Deputies say the search turned up guns; five pounds of pot and $221,550 vacuumed packed inside a garbage bag in the house. An additional $53,020 was found in a truck.

Deputies arrested Mays and say she admitted the pot and money was hers. Deputies say she was distributing the drug.

Granted, I don’t see the point in it being criminalized, but you make it sound as if she got busted with an ounce of weed for her glaucoma.  How about tax evasion on $275,000?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: GG on April 10, 2012, 05:56:52 pm
Vinita PD and Craig County deputies take a drug dealer off the streets (at least those streets that are handicap accessible).

http://www.fox23.com/mostpopular/story/Deputies-find-pot-277-000-in-73-year-old-womans/g1ML55dBqUGxyhznY5hgDA.cspx

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/17374197_BG2.jpg)

VINITA - A Craig County drug task force serving a search warrant late Monday seized about $277,000 in cash from the home of a 73-year-old woman, Craig County Sheriff Jimmie Sooter said.
“She said the money was hers, that it was for retirement. Of course, once we got into it, it was pretty obvious it wasn’t hers.”


Now we know why grannies brownies always sold out so fast at the church bazaar. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on May 17, 2012, 06:31:15 pm
Quote
Three and a half years ago, on my 62nd birthday, doctors discovered a mass on my pancreas. It turned out to be Stage 3 pancreatic cancer. I was told I would be dead in four to six months. Today I am in that rare coterie of people who have survived this long with the disease. But I did not foresee that after having dedicated myself for 40 years to a life of the law, including more than two decades as a New York State judge, my quest for ameliorative and palliative care would lead me to marijuana.

My survival has demanded an enormous price, including months of chemotherapy, radiation hell and brutal surgery. For about a year, my cancer disappeared, only to return. About a month ago, I started a new and even more debilitating course of treatment. Every other week, after receiving an IV booster of chemotherapy drugs that takes three hours, I wear a pump that slowly injects more of the drugs over the next 48 hours.

Nausea and pain are constant companions. One struggles to eat enough to stave off the dramatic weight loss that is part of this disease. Eating, one of the great pleasures of life, has now become a daily battle, with each forkful a small victory. Every drug prescribed to treat one problem leads to one or two more drugs to offset its side effects. Pain medication leads to loss of appetite and constipation. Anti-nausea medication raises glucose levels, a serious problem for me with my pancreas so compromised. Sleep, which might bring respite from the miseries of the day, becomes increasingly elusive.

Inhaled marijuana is the only medicine that gives me some relief from nausea, stimulates my appetite, and makes it easier to fall asleep. The oral synthetic substitute, Marinol, prescribed by my doctors, was useless. Rather than watch the agony of my suffering, friends have chosen, at some personal risk, to provide the substance. I find a few puffs of marijuana before dinner gives me ammunition in the battle to eat. A few more puffs at bedtime permits desperately needed sleep.

This is not a law-and-order issue; it is a medical and a human rights issue. Being treated at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, I am receiving the absolute gold standard of medical care. But doctors cannot be expected to do what the law prohibits, even when they know it is in the best interests of their patients. When palliative care is understood as a fundamental human and medical right, marijuana for medical use should be beyond controversy.

Sixteen states already permit the legitimate clinical use of marijuana, including our neighbor New Jersey, and Connecticut is on the cusp of becoming No. 17. The New York State Legislature is now debating a bill to recognize marijuana as an effective and legitimate medicinal substance and establish a lawful framework for its use. The Assembly has passed such bills before, but they went nowhere in the State Senate. This year I hope that the outcome will be different. Cancer is a nonpartisan disease, so ubiquitous that it’s impossible to imagine that there are legislators whose families have not also been touched by this scourge. It is to help all who have been affected by cancer, and those who will come after, that I now speak.

Given my position as a sitting judge still hearing cases, well-meaning friends question the wisdom of my coming out on this issue. But I recognize that fellow cancer sufferers may be unable, for a host of reasons, to give voice to our plight. It is another heartbreaking aporia in the world of cancer that the one drug that gives relief without deleterious side effects remains classified as a narcotic with no medicinal value.

Because criminalizing an effective medical technique affects the fair administration of justice, I feel obliged to speak out as both a judge and a cancer patient suffering with a fatal disease. I implore the governor and the Legislature of New York, always considered a leader among states, to join the forward and humane thinking of 16 other states and pass the medical marijuana bill this year. Medical science has not yet found a cure, but it is barbaric to deny us access to one substance that has proved to ameliorate our suffering.

Gustin L. Reichbach is a justice of the State Supreme Court in Brooklyn.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on May 17, 2012, 06:40:12 pm
It's going to happen just like last week on SSM....it will be Obama ending the War On Drugs by declaring states have the right to legislate and saving billions in the budget....when he gets re-elected.

http://news.yahoo.com/autopsy-evidence-marijuana-martins-blood-215533578.html related...Martin smoked before he died! OMG


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 17, 2012, 08:08:29 pm
Gustin L. Reichbach is a justice of the State Supreme Court in Brooklyn.


I wonder how many people he has sentenced for marijuana?  Or how many appeals ruled against?

Hopefully none.


I don't often wish ill for others - this is one topic where a convenient little dose of cancer for those who are voting and working against this use would probably be a pretty good case of "poetic justice".
I know - that is a terrible thing to wish and I really don't.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on May 17, 2012, 08:20:51 pm
I don't often wish ill for others - this is one topic where a convenient little dose of cancer for those who are voting and working against this use would probably be a pretty good case of "poetic justice".
I know - that is a terrible thing to wish and I really don't.

Yes you do or you wouldn't have brought it up.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 17, 2012, 09:29:38 pm
Yes you do or you wouldn't have brought it up.


I just might in this case.  Hard to say, since that wish goes so greatly and directly against my nature and basic belief structure.  When compared to the evil done by those people to inflict the large amount of suffering by their policies just to keep some economic benefit - well, I guess that kind of colors my outlook.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 17, 2012, 10:34:15 pm
I don't often wish ill for others - this is one topic where a convenient little dose of cancer for those who are voting and working against this use would probably be a pretty good case of "poetic justice".
I know - that is a terrible thing to wish and I really don't.

It's just being brutally honest, which is more than I can say for those politicians who quietly use their law enforcement connections to obtain what they need for themselves or a sick family member.

Relief from drug war insanity is going to take a lot more than waking up some politicians, because here's what you would be up against:



Republic Report think it’s worth showing that there are entrenched interest groups that are spending large sums of money to keep our broken drug laws on the books:

    1.) Police Unions: Police departments across the country have become dependent on federal drug war grants to finance their budget. In March, we published a story revealing that a police union lobbyist in California coordinated the effort to defeat Prop 19, a ballot measure in 2010 to legalize marijuana, while helping his police department clients collect tens of millions in federal marijuana-eradication grants. And it’s not just in California. Federal lobbying disclosures show that other police union lobbyists have pushed for stiffer penalties for marijuana-related crimes nationwide.

    2.) Private Prisons Corporations: Private prison corporations make millions by incarcerating people who have been imprisoned for drug crimes, including marijuana. As Republic Report’s Matt Stoller noted last year, Corrections Corporation of America, one of the largest for-profit prison companies, revealed in a regulatory filing that continuing the drug war is part in parcel to their business strategy. Prison companies have spent millions bankrolling pro-drug war politicians and have used secretive front groups, like the American Legislative Exchange Council, to pass harsh sentencing requirements for drug crimes.

    3.) Alcohol and Beer Companies: Fearing competition for the dollars Americans spend on leisure, alcohol and tobacco interests have lobbied to keep marijuana out of reach. For instance, the California Beer & Beverage Distributors contributed campaign contributions to a committee set up to prevent marijuana from being legalized and taxed.

    4.) Pharmaceutical Corporations: Like the sin industries listed above, pharmaceutical interests would like to keep marijuana illegal so Americans don’t have the option of cheap medical alternatives to their products. Howard Wooldridge, a retired police officer who now lobbies the government to relax marijuana prohibition laws, told Republic Report that next to police unions, the “second biggest opponent on Capitol Hill is big Pharma” because marijuana can replace “everything from Advil to Vicodin and other expensive pills.”

    5.) Prison Guard Unions: Prison guard unions have a vested interest in keeping people behind bars just like for-profit prison companies. In 2008, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association spent a whopping $1 million to defeat a measure that would have “reduced sentences and parole times for nonviolent drug offenders while emphasizing drug treatment over prison.”


http://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on May 17, 2012, 11:35:57 pm
I wonder how many people he has sentenced for marijuana?  Or how many appeals ruled against?

Hopefully none.


I don't often wish ill for others - this is one topic where a convenient little dose of cancer for those who are voting and working against this use would probably be a pretty good case of "poetic justice".
I know - that is a terrible thing to wish and I really don't.






The carcinogens in our air from industry will do us far more harm than hemp.

I knew three well known Tulsans who died from lung cancer. They never smoked and fought against smoking everywhere including public parks.

Tulsa should become a smoke free city. New York and California are much nicer and kinder environments ever since they went clean.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on May 18, 2012, 08:44:31 am
Can't do that. We got too much Okie in us. That's what makes us special.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on May 18, 2012, 09:26:32 am
http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/crosby-stills-and-nash/video/prison-song_1343251093.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/opinion/a-judges-plea-for-medical-marijuana.html?_r=1&smid=fb-share


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on May 18, 2012, 09:27:09 am
I'm aganist it, we don't need more people with altered minds on the streets we have enogh problems with legal alcohol as it is without adding more people on top of that. MJ can somethimes be a "gateway" drug too. I do think the drug laws need to be overhauled though.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on May 18, 2012, 09:42:07 am
Look Sauer....nobody dies as a result of MJ. Quit trying to supervise over the masses. Don't you believe in personal choice and freedom?

Or are you this guy?


(http://www.philzone.org/discus/messages/36579/771328.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on May 18, 2012, 10:15:52 am
Look Sauer, nobody who tokes up now is going to stop because of the law. Nobody who isn't using is going to start based on decriminalizing of the substance. The level of driving expertise is at an all time low due to cell phones and aggressive behavior. You'll never notice the difference in bad driving.

 However, the cost of enforcement of mj laws, the loss to society of contributing players, the tremendous cost of incarceration for minor offenses and the uneven justice doled out to lawyered up defendants vs public defender defendants (poor dumb guys) means we all pay way too much for very little gain.

As a fiscal conservative and a taxpayer you should really support decriminalizing.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 18, 2012, 10:49:17 am
MJ can somethimes be a "gateway" drug too.

The "gateway" is a direct product of criminalization. 

Because marijuana is illegal, you would have to buy it from someone dealing in contraband (who would much rather sell you something more compact like meth).

Decriminalization takes it out of the hands of criminal dealers and into a more controlled, taxable environment, and lessens a buyers exposure to truly dangerous drugs (and people).


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on May 18, 2012, 11:10:09 am
Coca-Cola could be considered a gateway since it could lead to drinking rum & coke.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on May 18, 2012, 11:31:41 am
MJ can somethimes be a "gateway" drug too.

I blame breast milk as the gateway to my moonshine addiction.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on May 19, 2012, 09:30:41 am
Look Sauer, nobody who tokes up now is going to stop because of the law. Nobody who isn't using is going to start based on decriminalizing of the substance. The level of driving expertise is at an all time low due to cell phones and aggressive behavior. You'll never notice the difference in bad driving.

 However, the cost of enforcement of mj laws, the loss to society of contributing players, the tremendous cost of incarceration for minor offenses and the uneven justice doled out to lawyered up defendants vs public defender defendants (poor dumb guys) means we all pay way too much for very little gain.

As a fiscal conservative and a taxpayer you should really support decriminalizing.
Yes but making MJ legal will increase use and like I said we have enough problems with alcohol and adding MJ to the mix won't help. I don't understand why people want to alter their brains anyhow what's wrong with just getting high on "life" and don't take any drugs?? I do agree the drug laws are unfair and don't fit the crime and need to be changed... There is still alot not known about MJ use and some users of MJ  long ago who have since quit seem to have dulled thinking and slow reactions, also MJ can't be healthy for the lungs any smoke likely cause lung carcinoma just like cigs do. As for me, I'm a  non-drinker non-smoker and non drug user, color me old fashioned I guess.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on May 19, 2012, 09:33:08 am
I blame breast milk as the gateway to my moonshine addiction.
MoonSine~ From deep in the hills of West VA, where they pipe in the SunShine and pipe out the MoonShine. :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on May 19, 2012, 09:40:26 am
Yes but making MJ legal will increase use and like I said we have enough problems with alcohol and adding MJ to the mix won't help. I don't understand why people want to alter their brains anyhow what's wrong with just getting high on "life" and don't take any drugs?? I do agree the drug laws are unfair and don't fit the crime and need to be changed... There is still alot not known about MJ use and some users of MJ  long ago who have since quit seem to have dulled thinking and slow reactions, also MJ can't be healthy for the lungs any smoke likely cause lung carcinoma just like cigs do. As for me, I'm a  non-drinker non-smoker and non drug user, color me old fashioned I guess.

So, you would support making cigarettes illegal along with alcohol? Or you just saying some addiction and mind altering is ok but no more?

There is no more strength for your argument that MJ usage will increase than mine that it will remain the same. So throw those arguments out. What is left is the concept of decriminalization. It does not make it legal, it makes it controllable, regulated and similar to a speeding ticket.

You make the cost of the product and the cost of using it high enough to discourage use rather than throwing citizens in prison for misdemeanor activities.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on May 19, 2012, 09:42:15 am
As for me, I'm a  non-drinker non-smoker and non drug user, color me old fashioned I guess.

Now that we know why you are the way you are.   Quick!  Get me a drink.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on May 19, 2012, 09:43:35 am
MoonSine~

Is that at new trig function?  Is it phase related to Cosine?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on May 21, 2012, 11:36:03 pm
Quote
Is that at new trig function?  Is it phase related to Cosine?

Geometry joke of the month!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 22, 2012, 08:40:22 am
I'm aganist it, we don't need more people with altered minds on the streets we have enogh problems with legal alcohol as it is without adding more people on top of that. MJ can somethimes be a "gateway" drug too. I do think the drug laws need to be overhauled though.

So, stay home!

Big step in solving the "more people with altered minds on the street" problem.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 22, 2012, 08:44:53 am
Yes but making MJ legal will increase use and like I said we have enough problems with alcohol and adding MJ to the mix won't help. I don't understand why people want to alter their brains anyhow what's wrong with just getting high on "life" and don't take any drugs?? I do agree the drug laws are unfair and don't fit the crime and need to be changed... There is still alot not known about MJ use and some users of MJ  long ago who have since quit seem to have dulled thinking and slow reactions, also MJ can't be healthy for the lungs any smoke likely cause lung carcinoma just like cigs do. As for me, I'm a  non-drinker non-smoker and non drug user, color me old fashioned I guess.


And trotting out the tired old platitudes - the plaintive bleats - of a policy that has failed for decades in the case of MJ and over 100 years for some other items.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Gaspar on May 22, 2012, 08:58:54 am
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wWWOJGYZYpk[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on May 22, 2012, 09:33:16 am
Yes, because everything comes back to Obama.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 22, 2012, 11:03:34 am
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wWWOJGYZYpk[/youtube]

Advocacy?


Penn's got it right.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on May 22, 2012, 11:13:29 am
Advocacy?


Penn's got it right.


Kinda harsh, ole Penn. Marijuana was made illegal by pronouncement. The Executive Branch through the FDA classified it as having no medicinal use, same as heroin and cocaine. Now, that there is ample evidence or medicinal use (which there was back then as well), the FDA can reclassify it and eliminate the problem.

There is no federal "law" that makes marijuana specifically illegal, just a law that allows the FDA to classify it as such. Funny how it took a constitutional amendment to make alcohol illegal (and even then it was OK for medicinal purposes) but it just tales a decision by some bureaucrats to make herb illegal.

"A proposed 66 percent cut in the National Guard Counterdrug Program by the Obama administration could sharply reduce the number of helicopter flights aimed at finding illicit pot gardens next year. " 
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2012/05/eastern_oregon_law_officers_wo.html The disarming of our long losing war on drugs.

Just a matter of a little more time. Won't matter here. The Governess will surely mount her forces to stop it under states rights the very second the executive branch signs off. She'll do it to protect our children despite her war on education.

5 states will benefit tremendously.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 15, 2012, 03:04:39 pm



“Is crack worse for a person than marijuana?” Congressman Jared Polis asked Drug Enforcement Administration official Michele Leonhart.

“I believe all illegal drugs are bad,” she meekly replied.

“Is methamphetamine worse for somebody’s health than marijuana?”

As she began to repeat her same answer, Polis interrupted her, asking, “Is heroin worse for someone’s health than marijuana?”

“Again. All drugs…” she began to answer, before a frustrated Polis cut her off.

“Yes, no, or I don’t know,” he said. “If you don’t know, you can look this up. You should know this as the chief administrator for the Drug Enforcement Agency. I’m asking you a very straightforward question: Is heroin worse for someone’s health than marijuana?”

“All illegal drugs are bad,” she replied.

“Does this mean you don’t know?” Polis interrupted.

Clearly she doesn’t. Or she simply refuses to acknowledge the facts. Plenty of studies show that drugs like heroin, methamphetamine, and cocaine are much more addictive and harmful than marijuana. Heck, the same studies also show that alcohol and nicotine are more addictive and harmful than marijuana. Our own government even recognizes that nicotine is potentially as addictive as heroin and cocaine.

Despite the well-known research, Leonhart accused Polis of asking a “subjective” question.

“No, this is objective. Just looking at the science,” Polis shot back. “This is your area of expertise. I’m just a layperson but I’ve read some of the studies and I’m aware of it. I’m just asking you as an expert in the subject area: is heroin worse for someone’s health than marijuana?”

“And I’m answering as a police officer, and as a DEA agent, that these drugs are illegal because they are dangerous, because they are addictive, because they do hurt a person’s health,” she replied.

He pressed her once more: “So heroin is more addictive than marijuana?”

She conceded that heroin is addictive, and so is meth, but when Polis tried to get her to answer whether they are more addictive than marijuana, she gave yet another non-answer: “I think some people become addicted to marijuana and some people become addicted to methamphetamine.”

Eventually Polis turned the conversation to the DEA’s classification of prescription drug abuse as “top priority,” telling Leonhart that his home state of Colorado legalized medical marijuana and saw a decrease in prescription drug abuse (side note: a new study also finds that medical marijuana reduces teen marijuana use). “Would your agency consider supporting medical marijuana provisions when that can be used in pursuit of your top priority — which is reducing the need for prescription drugs — if it can be documented that medical marijuana helps reduce the abuse of prescription drugs?”

Leonhart’s non-answer: “Congress determined that marijuana is a controlled substance. And DEA’s tasked with enforcing — ”

“Again,” he interrupted, “in pursuit of your ‘top priority,’ are you willing to look at medical marijuana as a way of reducing abuse of prescription drugs?”

Leonhart’s response: “We will look at any options for reducing drug addiction.”

Yeah, okay.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/democratic-congressman-schools-dea-agent-over-marijuana-during-congressional-hearing/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on July 15, 2012, 03:23:56 pm
The irony is that people of the street know that the only treatment for crack is marijuana and the places you get marijuana would rather sell you crack. Legalizing it would make it available in an environment devoid of dealers whose only interest is maximizing their profit.

Yet, the DEA enforcement officials are not equipped to make those decisions as to who gets rousted. As long as Congress tells the DEA that enforcing marijuana prohibition is just as important as heroin, they have little choice and marijuana arrests are an easier success. Congress and the executive branch are the targets for changing enforcement, not the DEA.

Get rid of the neanderthals in Congress. No incumbents from red states.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on July 15, 2012, 05:07:37 pm
Get rid of the neanderthals in Congress. No incumbents from red any states.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 15, 2012, 05:41:10 pm



And yet, you are still a big Inhofe fan, in spite of his past...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on July 15, 2012, 05:51:02 pm
And yet, you are still a big Inhofe fan, in spite of his past...

Medium, not big.  He offers some things I agree with (that I know you don't) in spite of his reputation among liberals and Democrats.  You have offered alternatives that you think are vastly superior but we disagree.  That's just the way it is.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 15, 2012, 06:35:15 pm
Medium, not big.  He offers some things I agree with (that I know you don't) in spite of his reputation among liberals and Democrats.  You have offered alternatives that you think are vastly superior but we disagree.  That's just the way it is.

Perhaps, perhaps not vastly superior -  but absolutely in line with the idea of voting out every incumbent.  And then the next time, vote that one out.  Until there is a good one - which is never gonna happen, so keep voting out the previous one.

Vastly superior - at the very least, vastly superior by the fact they haven't been doing damage to the state since the 60's.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on July 15, 2012, 07:19:54 pm
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/391285_444719505559317_1118282804_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on July 16, 2012, 03:23:04 am
There is no federal "law" that makes marijuana specifically illegal, just a law that allows the FDA to classify it as such. Funny how it took a constitutional amendment to make alcohol illegal (and even then it was OK for medicinal purposes) but it just tales a decision by some bureaucrats to make herb illegal.

Quote
Marijuana is classified as a Schedule I controlled substance under the Controlled Substances Act (CSA).  As a Schedule I drug, marijuana is classified under the following criteria:

A. The drug has a high potential for abuse.
B. The drug has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States
C. There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug under medical supervision.

Department of Justice Guidelines:
The Department of Justice (DOJ) issued guidance for Federal prosecutors in states that have enacted laws authorizing the medical use of marijuana under state law.  The guidelines explain that it is likely not an efficient use of federal resources to focus enforcement efforts on individuals with serious illnesses who use marijuana as part of a recommended treatment regimen consistent with applicable state law or their individual non-commercial caregiver.  However, persons who are in the business of cultivating, selling, or distributing marijuana, and those who knowingly facilitate such activities, are in violation of Federal law, and are subject to Federal enforcement action, including potential prosecution.

 The CSA mandates that the scheduling and approval of drugs, including marijuana, must be done on both legal and scientific bases.  The scheduling of a drug must conform to all applicable criteria contained in the CSA if the medicine includes a controlled substance.  In June 2011, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) reviewed a petition to reschedule marijuana.  Based upon scientific and medical evaluation, as well as scheduling recommendations from the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), DEA denied the petition to reschedule marijuana.  HHS determined that marijuana has a high potential for abuse, no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the U.S., and lacks accepted safety for use under medical supervision.

Regardless of state laws to the contrary, there is no such thing as “medical” marijuana under Federal law.  Marijuana continues to be a Schedule I substance meaning that it has no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse.

It is also important to know that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved medical use of isolated components of the marijuana plant such as THC, the active ingredient in marijuana and related synthetic compounds.  Dronabinol is one synthetically produced compound used in the FDA-approved medicine Marinol (a Schedule III drug).  Marinol is legally available by prescription from physicians for patients who suffer from pain and chronic illnesses such as cancer and AIDS.  Another FDA-approved medicine, Cesamet, contains the active ingredient Nabilone (a Schedule II drug), which has a chemical structure similar to THC.  And Sativex, an oromucosal spray approved in Canada, the UK, and other parts of Europe for the treatment of multiple sclerosis spasticity and cancer pain, is currently in late-stage clinical trials with the FDA.  It combines THC and another active ingredient in marijuana, cannabidiol (CBD), and provides therapeutic benefits without the “high” from the drug.


The DOJ guidelines do not legalize marijuana.  The DOJ guidance explicitly states that marijuana remains illegal under Federal law.  Enforcing Federal law against significant traffickers in illegal drugs including marijuana remains a core Department of Justice priority.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/federal-laws-pertaining-to-marijuana (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/federal-laws-pertaining-to-marijuana)

Quote
However, persons who are in the business of cultivating, selling, or distributing marijuana, and those who knowingly facilitate such activities, are in violation of Federal law, and are subject to Federal enforcement action, including potential prosecution.  

Quote
The DOJ guidance explicitly states that marijuana remains illegal under Federal law

Federal Law trumps State Law.

You are full of what you spew.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on July 16, 2012, 03:57:37 am
Quote
The drugs and other substances that are considered controlled substances under the CSA are divided into five schedules. A listing of the substances and their schedules is found in the DEA regulations, 21 C.F.R. Sections 1308.11 through 1308.15. A controlled substance is placed in its respective schedule based on whether it has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States and its relative abuse potential and likelihood of causing dependence. Some examples of controlled substances in each schedule are outlined below.


NOTE: Drugs listed in schedule I have no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States and, therefore, may not be prescribed, administered, or dispensed for medical use. In contrast, drugs listed in schedules II-V have some accepted medical use and may be prescribed, administered, or dispensed for medical use.

Quote
Schedule 1: High Abuse, No Recognized Medical Use, Lack of Safety
Heroin
LSD
MDMA
Marijuana
Methaqualone

Quote
Schedule 2: High Abuse, Medical Utility, High Dependency Risk
Opium
Morphine
Coca
Cocaine
Methadone
Methamphetamine

Quote
Schedule 3: Lower Abuse, Medical Utility, Moderate Dependency Risk
Amphetamine
Barbiturate
Valium
Xanax
Anabolic Steroids
Codeine

Quote
Schedule 4: Limited Abuse, High Medical Utility, Limited Dependency Risk
Chloral Hydrate
Meprobamate
Paraldehyde
Phenobarbital

Quote
Schedule 5: Minor Problems
Typically includes preparations of the above drugs in limited amounts

http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html (http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on July 16, 2012, 04:29:12 am
http://www.incb.org/pdf/e/list/46thedition.pdf (http://www.incb.org/pdf/e/list/46thedition.pdf)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 16, 2012, 11:46:47 am
As long as Congress tells the DEA that enforcing marijuana prohibition is just as important as heroin, they have little choice and marijuana arrests are an easier success. Congress and the executive branch are the targets for changing enforcement, not the DEA.

Well, yes and no.
When Congress wants to look informed on the subject, who do you think they go to for their expertise?
Remember, most of these representatives have to have interns do Google searches and email.

The above hearing clearly shows DEA bureaucracy is inept and only motivated by politics.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 16, 2012, 12:09:18 pm
http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html (http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html)

The Schedule 1 list (No Recognized Medical Use) skirts history.  LSD has been used in Norway to treat alcoholism, and marijuana was considered the most effective drug at treating migraine attacks.

...yet Schedule 4 (limited dependency/abuse risk) lists dangerous highly abused drugs like phenobarbital.

The system is broken, and all the forceful "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" heavy-handedness has not made that fact any less real.



(http://loldrugs.com/sites/loldrugs.com/files/wizard-of-oz-acid-trip.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on July 16, 2012, 12:09:38 pm
Well, yes and no.
When Congress wants to look informed on the subject, who do you think they go to for their expertise?
Remember, most of these representatives have to have interns do Google searches and email.

The above hearing clearly shows DEA bureaucracy is inept and only motivated by politics.

Marijuana has been a controlled substance since the 30's. It was made a Class I narcotic before the DEA was formed.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on July 16, 2012, 12:11:51 pm
Well, yes and no.
When Congress wants to look informed on the subject, who do you think they go to for their expertise?
Remember, most of these representatives have to have interns do Google searches and email.

The above hearing clearly shows DEA bureaucracy is inept and only motivated by politics.

That and cya.

What would be your plan for decriminalizing any drug in this political atmosphere? No sitting president or Congressman up for re-election dares support such craziness. It seems that attacking the beast from the inside (the states) as the TP'ers and Gay activists are doing might be the best strategy. That would force a face-off.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 16, 2012, 12:23:28 pm
That and cya.

What would be your plan for decriminalizing any drug in this political atmosphere? No sitting president or Congressman up for re-election dares support such craziness. It seems that attacking the beast from the inside (the states) as the TP'ers and Gay activists are doing might be the best strategy. That would force a face-off.

Convince the Tea Partiers that MJ cures “teh ghey” and it might just get decriminalized.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 16, 2012, 12:28:37 pm
Marijuana has been a controlled substance since the 30's. It was made a Class I narcotic before the DEA was formed.

The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws developed the Uniform State Narcotic Drug Act in 1934 due to the lack of restrictions in the Harrison Act of 1914. The act was a revenue-producing act and, while it provided penalties for violations, it did not give authority to the states to exercise police power regarding either seizure of drugs used in illicit trade or punishment of those responsible.

Harry J. Anslinger, a member of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, campaigned and lobbied for passage of the Uniform State Narcotic Act.
Anslinger launched a nationwide media campaign declaring that marijuana causes temporary insanity. The advertisements featured young people smoking marijuana and then behaving recklessly, committing crimes, killing themselves and others, or dying from marijuana use. The propaganda campaign was a success and all states signed on.




Meanwhile, in our century:

 

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi reiterated her support for medical marijuana on Wednesday and indicated Democrats might be interested in taking changes to federal law after the election.

“I’ve been very clear on the subject of medical marijuana over time, in committee and on the floor as leader,” Pelosi said told Raw Story at a round table of bloggers.

“I think that it would be really important to do that,” Pelosi said. “It would be hard for anyone to agree with the fact that someone who has HIV/AIDS or has cancer and they find relief from pain in medicinal marijuana that should be something that should be a priority to raid on the part of the Justice Department. Going along with that, we need to address some of the penalties for any non-violent crime that are out there.”

Pelosi previously attacked the administration on medical marijuana raids in May, when she criticized the administration for carrying out raids on medical marijuana facilities. The Obama administration has carried out more raids than the George W. Bush administration.

Her statement at that time said, “I have long supported efforts in Congress to advocate federal policies that recognize the scientific research and clinical research demonstrating the medical benefits of medicinal marijuana, that respects the wishes of the states in providing relief to ill individuals, and that prevents the federal government from acting to harm the safe access to medicinal marijuana provided under state law.”

Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) told Raw Story, “I think our marijuana policy in this country is absolutely nuts.” He predicted that within 10 years, the country would move on medical marijuana policy nationwide.   And an increasing number of Americans agree with Blumenauer. A recent poll showed 74 percent of Americans agree that the federal government shouldn’t interfere with states’ laws on medical marijuana. A Gallup poll from last year also showed that 50 percent of Americans now support full legalization of marijuana.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 16, 2012, 12:33:01 pm
It seems that attacking the beast from the inside (the states) as the TP'ers and Gay activists are doing might be the best strategy. That would force a face-off.

Local authorities refusing to cooperate or give support to the feds when they want to raid a legal, tax-paying dispensary?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on July 16, 2012, 12:36:18 pm
Convince the Tea Partiers that MJ cures “teh ghey” and it might just get decriminalized.

Yeah, legalize the ghey then legalize the anti-ghey. Sounds pretty Machiavellian. We all win!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on July 16, 2012, 12:41:58 pm
Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) told Raw Story, “I think our marijuana policy in this country is absolutely nuts.” He predicted that within 10 years, the country would move on medical marijuana policy nationwide.   And an increasing number of Americans agree with Blumenauer. A recent poll showed 74 percent of Americans agree that the federal government shouldn’t interfere with states’ laws on medical marijuana. A Gallup poll from last year also showed that 50 percent of Americans now support full legalization of marijuana.[/font]

Yeah, they've been saying within 10 years for the last three decades. Talk is cheap, and the "war on drugs" is a cash cow.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 16, 2012, 07:05:31 pm
Yeah, they've been saying within 10 years for the last three decades. Talk is cheap, and the "war on drugs" is a cash cow.

We need only go as far as the recent federal sting here in Tulsa to see how well the WOD is going.
How we progressed from the 1930's version of anti-Mexican legislation, to drug enforcement officers caught on tape filling their pockets with cash in a Tulsa motel room, is mind boggling.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 16, 2012, 09:06:14 pm
If you (everyone here) gets the chance, use your Netflix to watch "Reefer Madness".  I have the DVD, so don' t have to stream it...

It shows the hysteria, misrepresentations, distortions, and lies that have accompanied the WOD since the get-go.  Ya gotta ask yourself why/how there would be so much money and effort spent on this when the supposed end result is the salvation of America's youth?  Well, as we know now - and have for many decades - it IS, as it always is, a case of "follow the money".  The ones we know about for a fact are DuPont (eliminate hemp for rope in place of their nylon), and Hearst (replace hemp for paper by the trees William owned in all those forests he had). 

Who else could possibly benefit from this prohibition of nature??  Well, anyone who wanted to have a bureaucracy and make it survive and grow.  Perhaps an "army" fighting a "war" on drugs?  Bent on setting up a "boogey-man" (reefer addicts from then to now) for the general populace to focus on so they would not look behind the curtain.

So, find the person running for Congress/Senate who has drug law insanity reform as one of their platform planks.  Then vote for that person.  Simple.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on July 16, 2012, 09:34:06 pm
The ones we know about for a fact are DuPont (eliminate hemp for rope in place of their nylon), and Hearst (replace hemp for paper by the trees William owned in all those forests he had). 

I believe the liquor industry also had a hand in it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 16, 2012, 09:37:27 pm
I believe the liquor industry also had a hand in it.


Wouldn't surprise me at all - that certainly would make sense....I just haven't heard of any direct evidence...if you got some info, I would love to know it!






Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on July 16, 2012, 09:41:35 pm
Wouldn't surprise me at all - that certainly would make sense....I just haven't heard of any direct evidence...if you got some info, I would love to know it!

I'm pretty sure I heard/saw it on a documentary on either Channel 11 or the History Channel.  It's been a few years ago now.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 16, 2012, 11:01:02 pm
I believe the liquor industry also had a hand in it.

Besides national police associations, the alcohol industry is the major source of funding to fight reform efforts.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdoMYGRJP_8[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2012, 07:37:51 am
There we are then...they know their sales would droop, and we can't have that....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 17, 2012, 12:30:43 pm
There we are then...they know their sales would droop, and we can't have that....

4 Industries Getting Rich Off the Drug War
Several industries owe their profit margins, market shares, and—in some cases—very existence to the war on drugs.
http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/22/4-industries-getting-rich-off-the-drug-w/singlepage


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2012, 02:24:55 pm
4 Industries Getting Rich Off the Drug War
Several industries owe their profit margins, market shares, and—in some cases—very existence to the war on drugs.
http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/22/4-industries-getting-rich-off-the-drug-w/singlepage


Not to mention the big 20 billion dollar gorilla bureaucracy - the DEA. 



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 17, 2012, 02:39:25 pm

Not to mention the big 20 billion dollar gorilla bureaucracy - the DEA. 



What? You don’t think people would come forward from a cushy government bureaucracy to point out they are a huge drain on the budget and society in general and go sit in the u/e line?   ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2012, 02:41:26 pm
What? You don’t think people would come forward from a cushy government bureaucracy to point out they are a huge drain on the budget and society in general and go sit in the u/e line?   ;D


Won't happen.  That's why they need to be fired!  Legalize pot!   Save $20 billion and reduce a dangerous government bureaucracy!!







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rhymnrzn on July 17, 2012, 04:35:14 pm
We need only go as far as the recent federal sting here in Tulsa to see how well the WOD is going.
How we progressed from the 1930's version of anti-Mexican legislation, to drug enforcement officers caught on tape filling their pockets with cash in a Tulsa motel room, is mind boggling.
The idea.  You have a link for that incident?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 17, 2012, 06:31:50 pm
The idea.  You have a link for that incident?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM3KqIt3f64[/youtube]

The videos show Detective John K. "J.J." Gray, former Cpl. Harold Wells and Officers Nick DeBruin and Bruce Bonham searching a hotel room during the May 18, 2009, sting. Gray, Bonham and DeBruin are shown pocketing cash that had been placed in the room by the FBI as part of the sting.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 13, 2012, 09:32:36 pm
Just a thought I read today....


You say pot makes people hungry, stupid, and lazy? 

So you are saying we have had a 40+ year war against hungry, stupid, lazy people and we still can't win it?

I think it's time to throw in the towel.

John Jay Myers, candidate for US Senate, TX


The drug war has led to America being the leader in incarcerations around the world, ahead of China and Iran.  Visible forward progress....not.






Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 13, 2012, 09:39:43 pm
Just a thought I read today....


You say pot makes people hungry, stupid, and lazy? 

So you are saying we have had a 40+ year war against hungry, stupid, lazy people and we still can't win it?

I think it's time to throw in the towel.

John Jay Myers, candidate for US Senate, TX


The drug war has led to America being the leader in incarcerations around the world, ahead of China and Iran.  Visible forward progress....not.






Wow, a salient thought coming from Texas.  I guess dogs and cats CAN live together!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 13, 2012, 09:55:00 pm
Not completely sure about that, but who knows....

Libertarian from TX.  Much of what he says I feel is good stuff.  But then he and many other Libertarians also are in favor of government abdicating many of those responsibilities that I feel are absolutely necessary.


http://johnjaymyers.com/



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on August 14, 2012, 06:18:10 am
Just a thought I read today....


You say pot makes people hungry, stupid, and lazy? 

So you are saying we have had a 40+ year war against hungry, stupid, lazy people and we still can't win it?

I think it's time to throw in the towel.

John Jay Myers, candidate for US Senate, TX


The drug war has led to America being the leader in incarcerations around the world, ahead of China and Iran.  Visible forward progress....not.






The war has lead to a thriving corrections business which lobbies hard for stronger sentencing and funding of more correctional facilities.

If we really want to eliminate hungry, stupid, lazy people we could start with people who live mostly off of fast food and QT and are so busy eating their fries while driving that they can't use their turn signals.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 14, 2012, 07:54:03 am
Think of all the lost jobs if we had some sanity in the law! 


All the carp about how smoking dope makes you any of those things - yeah, right.  Think Michael Phelps.  Well, he may be hungry all the time given how many calories he burns each day....





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: JCnOwasso on August 21, 2012, 07:12:45 am

Won't happen.  That's why they need to be fired!  Legalize pot!   Save $20 billion and reduce a dangerous government bureaucracy!!


Yes, because while Republicans are down with smaller Government, it is on the non-"morals" agencies: EPA, DOE, Education, SEC, OMB, IRS, etc etc, and agencies or funded programs that don't support their agenda, primarily Planned Parenthood and any Arts programs.  We must cut costs at any expense... except when the cutting of costs will interfer with campaign contributions.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 21, 2012, 12:42:06 pm
Yes, because while Republicans are down with smaller Government, it is on the non-"morals" agencies: EPA, DOE, Education, SEC, OMB, IRS, etc etc, and agencies or funded programs that don't support their agenda, primarily Planned Parenthood and any Arts programs.  We must cut costs at any expense... except when the cutting of costs will interfer with campaign contributions.


Exactly.  Vote accordingly.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on September 07, 2012, 06:53:20 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/07/medical-marijuana-street-dealing_n_1865418.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on September 10, 2012, 06:50:24 pm
Quote
I found out that contrary to what I'd been told, nobody has ever died from using marijuana in the thousands of years this plant has been available. In fact, I had no idea that its medical use dated back to around 2700 B.C. and was called a "superior" herb by the Emperor Shen-Nung (2737-2697 B.C.). I discovered that while I had been demonizing marijuana, thousands of people worldwide had been quietly and effectively curing or relieving a multitude of health problems, including Crohn's disease, migraine headaches, chronic depression, post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), insomnia, dementia, epileptic seizures, Parkinson's disease and even AIDS. The more I researched and talked to pro-cannabis physicians, patients, researchers and historians who studied the plant, the more I heard incredible testimonials of recovery from illnesses and mental imbalances in addition to, as one patient told me, "just a better outlook on life."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laurel-dewey/marijuana-is-not-addictive_b_1739339.html

Quote
And that's when I uncovered information that really challenged the stories I'd been told. People were using this "weed" to get off of opiates, alcohol, tobacco, heroin, cocaine and other powerful drugs. Thus, it was gaining traction as "an exit drug," instead of the "gateway drug." Seniors were also secretly using it to improve their cognition. Wait...what? How is that possible? Didn't marijuana make you a "brain-dead loser"? No, not according to the scientific data I discovered. The opposite was true as researchers found that the plant allowed neurogenesis in the brain -- the growth of new neural pathways, even when the brain had been damaged by age or trauma.
  http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/6/1/35/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 10, 2012, 07:43:26 pm
Just what the sane people have been saying since the 60's.

The "big lie" is what DuPont and Hearst used for decades, and the effort renewed up by Nixon with his "war on drugs".  (His actual phrase was "war on drug abuse").  And now we suffer this massive unwarranted government intrusion into people's private lives.  Amazing how that phrase has become so warped and twisted around by the RWRE...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 10, 2012, 07:47:58 pm
References....


http://www.amazon.com/Hemp-The-Marijuana-Conspiracy-Authoritative/dp/1878125001

http://www.amazon.com/Hemp-The-Marijuana-Conspiracy-Authoritative/dp/1878125001



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 09, 2012, 01:02:12 pm
Former Police Chief Melvin Fisher

(http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w640-6568df4017813e68dbd22a94c1858cf1.jpg)

Free after his suspended 10-year sentence for dealing meth, he is in his own prison.
And you have to wonder why OBNDD makes marijuana a higher priority.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on November 09, 2012, 01:03:24 pm
Former Police Chief Melvin Fisher


Free after his suspended 10-year sentence for dealing meth, he is in his own prison.
And you have to wonder why OBNDD makes marijuana a higher priority.

Holy moses


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on November 09, 2012, 02:50:48 pm
And he would swear to you that he looks good. It's a crazy addiction.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 09, 2012, 03:09:53 pm
Ahh another successful user of the Jenny Crank diet plan!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on November 09, 2012, 03:31:03 pm
This is what a New York blogger I read had to say about good ol Mel's picture.

Eww gross dude. Clean it up. You’re getting your picture taken for f*ck’s sake. Sure it looks like you just opened the Arc of the Convenant and your face is melting like at the end of Indiana Jones, but how about a smile? No seriously what’s this guy’s diet? AIDS? Is he eating 3 squares of AIDS every day? Or did he turn anorexic because his boyfriend in jail called him fat? Both very viable possibilities.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 09, 2012, 11:54:15 pm
Former Police Chief Melvin Fisher

Free after his suspended 10-year sentence for dealing meth, he is in his own prison.
And you have to wonder why OBNDD makes marijuana a higher priority.



Hey, Melvin...just hurry up and die so someone more worthy can make use of the oxygen you are wasting!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 12, 2012, 07:57:15 pm
Ahh another successful user of the Jenny Crank diet plan!

For which he still appears to have ample access.      Professional connections ... sweet.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 13, 2012, 01:12:20 pm
Ahh another successful user of the Jenny Crank diet plan!

I think it was an old Saturday Night Live skit where they introduced the "Slim-Crash" diet.  Very simple - and oh, so effective... 

Diet plan;

A deep breath of air for breakfast.
A deep breath of air and a glass of water for lunch.
A sensible Marlboro cigarette for dinner.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 18, 2012, 12:22:46 am
The Police Guide To Marijuana Use:

http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2012/11/09/marijwhatnow-a-guide-to-legal-marijuana-use-in-seattle/

Seriously, it's on a government website (so it's gotta be true).  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on November 18, 2012, 02:09:34 pm
Spoiler alert: No, you can't get your pot back if it was previously seized.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 21, 2012, 08:16:22 am
Spoiler alert: No, you can't get your pot back if it was previously seized.

NOT FAIR!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 28, 2012, 12:08:56 pm
CHICAGO — Julie Falco eats three marijuana brownies a day, her chosen method of using cannabis to control her pain from multiple sclerosis.

For her, marijuana works better and has fewer side effects than the prescription drugs that left her depressed and in a fog, she said. She's tired of breaking the law, but doesn't want to give up cannabis.

Falco hopes Illinois lawmakers will remember her story as they consider a three-year pilot program to temporarily legalize medical marijuana.
House Bill 30 sponsor Rep. Lou Lang, a Skokie Democrat, wants the House to vote on the bill Wednesday and thinks political momentum is on his side.

With 18 states and the District of Columbia allowing the use of medical marijuana — and two states, Washington and Colorado, recently approving the use of recreational marijuana — the time may be right for passage in Illinois, Lang said. Lawmakers in the past told him they favor the bill but couldn't vote for it for political reasons, he said.  Now, some lame ducks can vote for the bill without consequences.

As the Illinois bill is written, a patient would have to get written certification from their regular doctor and be diagnosed with one of about 30 medical conditions, which include cancer, glaucoma, HIV, hepatitis C, multiple sclerosis, "agitation of Alzheimer's disease" and several pain syndromes. Also on the list: fibromyalgia, a condition with an unknown cause and a lack of definitive tests, and nail-patella syndrome, a rare inherited disorder that can cause pain while walking.

Other safeguards of the bill include a ban on doctors having financial ties to nonprofit marijuana dispensaries, guarantees that employers could still enforce drug-free policies and no requirement for insurance coverage.
Patients would be limited to 2.5 ounces every two weeks, which Falco considers a minimal amount for someone like her.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 28, 2012, 02:43:39 pm
CHICAGO — Julie Falco eats three marijuana brownies a day, her chosen method of using cannabis to control her pain from multiple sclerosis.

For her, marijuana works better and has fewer side effects than the prescription drugs that left her depressed and in a fog, she said. She's tired of breaking the law, but doesn't want to give up cannabis.

Falco hopes Illinois lawmakers will remember her story as they consider a three-year pilot program to temporarily legalize medical marijuana.
House Bill 30 sponsor Rep. Lou Lang, a Skokie Democrat, wants the House to vote on the bill Wednesday and thinks political momentum is on his side.

With 18 states and the District of Columbia allowing the use of medical marijuana — and two states, Washington and Colorado, recently approving the use of recreational marijuana — the time may be right for passage in Illinois, Lang said. Lawmakers in the past told him they favor the bill but couldn't vote for it for political reasons, he said.  Now, some lame ducks can vote for the bill without consequences.

As the Illinois bill is written, a patient would have to get written certification from their regular doctor and be diagnosed with one of about 30 medical conditions, which include cancer, glaucoma, HIV, hepatitis C, multiple sclerosis, "agitation of Alzheimer's disease" and several pain syndromes. Also on the list: fibromyalgia, a condition with an unknown cause and a lack of definitive tests, and nail-patella syndrome, a rare inherited disorder that can cause pain while walking.

Other safeguards of the bill include a ban on doctors having financial ties to nonprofit marijuana dispensaries, guarantees that employers could still enforce drug-free policies and no requirement for insurance coverage.
Patients would be limited to 2.5 ounces every two weeks, which Falco considers a minimal amount for someone like her.




Five ounces a month?  That's beyond stoned.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on November 28, 2012, 03:02:15 pm
Five ounces a month?  That's beyond stoned.

Gee. I can't remember how much me and my "Buds" would smoke a month. But that's probably right on target.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on November 28, 2012, 06:57:59 pm
Gee. I can't remember how much me and my "Buds" would smoke a month. But that's probably right on target.

"would" smoke? Come now.... :o


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 29, 2012, 12:21:02 pm
Just a thought I read today....
The drug war has led to America being the leader in incarcerations around the world, ahead of China and Iran.  Visible forward progress....not.

State Sen. Brian Crain, R-Tulsa, derails a proposed study on marijuana law reform, saying his decision not to allow the study was based on the Oklahoma Constitution and the U.S. Constitution.
"I don't know how we can proceed ... as the federal law says the legalization of medical marijuana is against the law," Crain said.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20121129_11_A1_ULNSdo813611

He just has unshakable respect for federal laws, like the Affordable Care Act.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on November 29, 2012, 12:52:28 pm
"would" smoke? Come now.... :o

Ok, Ok. "Could" smoke.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on November 29, 2012, 01:41:43 pm
Ok, Ok. "Could" smoke.

Let's go present tense: "can"... k?

Nobody needs to feel scorned for staying current..... :o


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 29, 2012, 04:38:24 pm
In other marijuana-related developments today, Patricia Spottedcrow finally got justice and was released from prison.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on November 29, 2012, 04:43:28 pm
In other marijuana-related developments today, Patricia Spottedcrow finally got justice and was released from prison.

Crazy


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on November 29, 2012, 05:39:35 pm
Let's go present tense: "can"... k?

Nobody needs to feel scorned for staying current..... :o

Nope I can't say that. 1990 was my last year of the cannabis sativa. But if it helps people with illness relief. I'm all for it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on November 29, 2012, 08:25:49 pm
Nope I can't say that. 1990 was my last year of the cannabis sativa. But if it helps people with illness relief. I'm all for it.

Well then, you need to indulge. Medically speaking, it might make you kinder. ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on November 29, 2012, 09:31:24 pm
In other marijuana-related developments today, Patricia Spottedcrow finally got justice and was released from prison.

We know she was in because of that name. Oh, the fact she had no good lawyer was covering for Mom might be pertinent.

I hope this is a lesson for all those woman stoners out there!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 30, 2012, 09:05:28 am
We know she was in because of that name. Oh, the fact she had no good lawyer was covering for Mom might be pertinent.

I hope this is a lesson for all those woman stoners out there!

I hope it's a lesson to our legislature what an expensive tragedy the war on drugs is.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on November 30, 2012, 09:13:05 am
I hope it's a lesson to our legislature what an expensive tragedy the war on drugs is.

Too many lobbyists from prisons for hire and alcohol producers.  (a guess)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 30, 2012, 09:22:08 am
Too many lobbyists from prisons for hire and alcohol producers.  (a guess)

There's nothing fiscally conservative about it, that's for damn sure.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 30, 2012, 10:08:13 am
Too many lobbyists from prisons for hire and alcohol producers.  (a guess)

It would be a good guess.  Might be interesting to look at Sen. Crain's donors:
http://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal

While it's hardly astonishing that the corporate beer lobby would oppose efforts to legalize marijuana, a non-toxic, ostensibly safer alternative to alcohol, it is surprising to see how quickly the law enforcement lobby -- to date the largest supporters of Public Safety First, -- is willing to get into bed with big booze.
http://www.alternet.org/story/148213/alcohol_lobby_now_openly_spending_against_ca%27s_legal_pot_initiative_in_alliance_with_police_industrial_complex


Also found this while poking around:

Former U.S. Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.), once a fierce critic of drug legalization, has taken sides with the Marijuana Policy Project (MPP), which advocates for medical marijuana and other drug-law reforms.

The Cox News Service reported March 30 that Barr, whom the Libertarian Party once called the “worst drug warrior” during his eight years in Congress, is now working to repeal the “Barr Amendment” — legislation he introduced in 1999 to prevent the legalization of medical marijuana in the District of Colombia.

Barr did not comment on taking the MPP job, but said he had left the Republican Party because of its move “toward big government and disregard toward privacy and civil liberties.”

“In light of the tremendous growth of government power since 9/11, it has forced me and other conservatives to go back and take a renewed look at how big and powerful we want the government to be in people's lives,” Barr said.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 30, 2012, 01:41:55 pm
It would be a good guess.  Might be interesting to look at Sen. Crain's donors:
http://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal

While it's hardly astonishing that the corporate beer lobby would oppose efforts to legalize marijuana, a non-toxic, ostensibly safer alternative to alcohol, it is surprising to see how quickly the law enforcement lobby -- to date the largest supporters of Public Safety First, -- is willing to get into bed with big booze.
http://www.alternet.org/story/148213/alcohol_lobby_now_openly_spending_against_ca%27s_legal_pot_initiative_in_alliance_with_police_industrial_complex


Also found this while poking around:

Former U.S. Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.), once a fierce critic of drug legalization, has taken sides with the Marijuana Policy Project (MPP), which advocates for medical marijuana and other drug-law reforms.

The Cox News Service reported March 30 that Barr, whom the Libertarian Party once called the “worst drug warrior” during his eight years in Congress, is now working to repeal the “Barr Amendment” — legislation he introduced in 1999 to prevent the legalization of medical marijuana in the District of Colombia.

Barr did not comment on taking the MPP job, but said he had left the Republican Party because of its move “toward big government and disregard toward privacy and civil liberties.”

“In light of the tremendous growth of government power since 9/11, it has forced me and other conservatives to go back and take a renewed look at how big and powerful we want the government to be in people's lives,” Barr said.


I suspect Bob finally tried a big fattie at a party and realized what he'd been missing.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 30, 2012, 01:58:58 pm
I suspect Bob finally tried a big fattie at a party and realized what he'd been missing.

Or a family member was diagnosed with cancer.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 01, 2012, 08:31:27 am
I hope it's a lesson to our legislature what an expensive tragedy the war on drugs is.


And who keeps electing these reactionary sellouts??  It sure ain't me...for at least 4o+ years.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 01, 2012, 08:49:43 am
Or a family member was diagnosed with cancer.

Very close sister-in-law going through this now and she has lost about 50 lbs part way through the fight.  Nauseous ALL the time - everything in comes right back out.  Our medieval laws are literally mandating torture upon sick people to prohibit the use of something that by all indications provides significant relief to not only the nausea, but actually stimulates appetite - those famous munchies we all hear about.  She could use some food right about now...  

She is not the first I have known go through this - there have been too many others, just as close, over the years.  Hers is the situation that has become my "straw on the camel's back" to take me to a whole other place - a place I have never dreamed I could get to...

After spending my entire life hoping that no one ever has to go through this, I have finally now reached the point that I do hope that each of these a$$ wipes that pushes against marijuana so hard actually DOES have someone very close and special to them go through this.  And soon.  I have reached the point where I feel they deserve the experience.  They have earned it through the suffering of millions of others.  And to be even more clear - I absolutely do NOT want THEM to go through it - I want those closest to them to go through it, so they can experience the true full experience without distraction.







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on December 01, 2012, 02:06:27 pm
I'd like to make a case against it. We have enough problems with legal alcohol, adding MJ will make it worse,  we don't need more people on the streets with altered minds on top of all the people using alcohol. Making MJ legal is a stepping stone for making other drugs legal. I vote against it..


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on December 01, 2012, 02:07:44 pm
I'd like to make a case against it. We have enough problems with legal alcohol, adding MJ will make it worse,  we don't need more people on the streets with altered minds on top of all the people using alcohol. Making MJ legal is a stepping stone for making other drugs legal. I vote against it..

Why don't we outlaw pain meds while we're at it? After all, why should people who just had surgery get relief? They might end up on the streets with altered minds. People certainly should die so you aren't made uncomfortable.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on December 01, 2012, 02:12:52 pm
Why don't we outlaw pain meds while we're at it? After all, why should people who just had surgery get relief? They might end up on the streets with altered minds. People certainly should die so you aren't made uncomfortable.

Remember who you're replying to, Nate...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 01, 2012, 03:02:10 pm
It is hard to smoke sauerkraut. It fits in the pipe nicely, but is usually too wet to catch fire well.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 01, 2012, 03:14:53 pm
After spending my entire life hoping that no one ever has to go through this, I have finally now reached the point that I do hope that each of these a$$ wipes that pushes against marijuana so hard actually DOES have someone very close and special to them go through this.  And soon.  I have reached the point where I feel they deserve the experience.  They have earned it through the suffering of millions of others.  And to be even more clear - I absolutely do NOT want THEM to go through it - I want those closest to them to go through it, so they can experience the true full experience without distraction.

"We can discretely supply your loved one with the need for as long as necessary, but in exchange we will want some favors that your position can facilitate."



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on December 01, 2012, 03:40:55 pm
It is hard to smoke sauerkraut. It fits in the pipe nicely, but is usually too wet to catch fire well.

You don't smoke the sauerkraut, Michael.  You smoke some sausage and then add it to the sauerkraut.

Now I'm hungry for kielbasa and sauerkraut.  That didn't take long.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 01, 2012, 03:50:38 pm
You don't smoke the sauerkraut, Michael.  You smoke some sausage and then add it to the sauerkraut.

So when they say sausage roll, they really mean rolling papers?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 02, 2012, 08:56:06 pm
I'd like to make a case against it. We have enough problems with legal alcohol, adding MJ will make it worse,  we don't need more people on the streets with altered minds on top of all the people using alcohol. Making MJ legal is a stepping stone for making other drugs legal. I vote against it..


You have proven yourself to have an altered mind, so that vote doesn't count.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on December 02, 2012, 08:57:33 pm

You have proven yourself to have an altered mind, so that vote doesn't count.



Wouldn't that require the mind to exist for alterations?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 02, 2012, 08:58:30 pm
"We can discretely supply your loved one with the need for as long as necessary, but in exchange we will want some favors that your position can facilitate."




Ahhhhh....therein lies the rub.  I am not a 0.1%er.  I have no position that would be of any significance in granting favors.  If I did, it would already not be a problem, would it?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 02, 2012, 09:01:50 pm
Wouldn't that require the mind to exist for alterations?


I softened my reply dramatically from the original to take into account the fact that it would be a "fight" with an unarmed man....

Plus the fact that I have lost any and all sense of humor on the topic, and accordingly any sense and exercise of proportion on this issue.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 20, 2012, 03:23:57 pm
You have to admire how they manage to put it into perspective:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-december-5-2012/old-tokes-home


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 20, 2012, 07:17:37 pm
You have to admire how they manage to put it into perspective:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-december-5-2012/old-tokes-home


Buffet!!!!

I like to travel, too!  Yeah, we just don't have enough perspective or view of the bigger picture in this country.  Plus, marijuana won't plug you up like narcotic pain relievers do!!  Especially if taken in their 'high fiber' form - brownies!!  A constant concern of the elderly!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on December 21, 2012, 01:45:03 pm
Sorry I'm against making MJ legal so I don't have a case to support it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on December 21, 2012, 01:47:58 pm

Buffet!!!!

I like to travel, too!  Yeah, we just don't have enough perspective or view of the bigger picture in this country.  Plus, marijuana won't plug you up like narcotic pain relievers do!!  Especially if taken in their 'high fiber' form - brownies!!  A constant concern of the elderly!

But you left out it affects and alters the brain much more than smoking does. Studies have shown that long term MJ use makes you less alert and you don't perform as well on skill testing, MJ makes you less smart in other words.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on December 21, 2012, 02:04:38 pm
But you left out it affects and alters the brain much more than smoking does. Studies have shown that long term MJ use makes you less alert and you don't perform as well on skill testing, MJ makes you less smart in other words.

I'm guessing there's not much room for....nevermind.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on December 21, 2012, 03:37:12 pm
But you left out it affects and alters the brain much more than smoking does. Studies have shown that long term MJ use makes you less alert and you don't perform as well on skill testing, MJ makes you less smart in other words.

Baloney.

Where's this study? Or is it based on a few fake surveys from the 1990's?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 22, 2012, 02:25:02 pm
Sorry I'm against making MJ legal so I don't have a case to support it.

Come visit again after you have had a while to deal with a loved one suffering with cancer or MS.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 23, 2012, 09:18:45 am
Sorry I'm against making MJ legal so I don't have a case to support it.

Your stand against it is just another excellent point making the case for it!!  Given you past stance and comments on just about everything else....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 23, 2012, 09:20:07 am
But you left out it affects and alters the brain much more than smoking does. Studies have shown that long term MJ use makes you less alert and you don't perform as well on skill testing, MJ makes you less smart in other words.

Still blathering what they taught you in elementary school and what they showed you in the movie "Reefer Madness".  All, or course, nonsense.  See note above....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on December 23, 2012, 09:28:50 am
I thought part of the federal War On Drugs precluded any studies of potential benefits of any Schedule 1 drugs.  That puts THC - the active part of cannabis - in the same category as heroin.  If any peer-reviewed studies exist, I'd like to see a link to them.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on December 23, 2012, 12:23:28 pm
Was it FOTD or Aox who was our first advocate here for medical purposes and decrim and legalization? ;D

Seriously, we should get out ahead of the curve on this issue. Already prepared documentation exists for medical marijuana in the state crapitoll. What odds of that happening? And then there's the voters... But shouldn't it just be legalized and regulated on the Federal level? Two years from now will be the window of opportunity.

There's a national chain called Ziggyz that now has 4 locations in the city. Buy futures. They're going to be sitting in the cat nip seat. Short prison corps.... oh, encourage a Brady or Blue Dome location.

Just as Colorado and Washington will out recruit college football players in the coming years, young talent will move to the areas of the country where they aren't hassled for what they do in the privacy of their own homes.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on December 23, 2012, 12:38:18 pm
Was it FOTD or Aox who was our first advocate here for medical purposes and decrim and legalization? ;D

Are you suffering from unknown cause of memory loss?   ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 23, 2012, 02:00:20 pm

Seriously, we should get out ahead of the curve on this issue. Already prepared documentation exists for medical marijuana in the state crapitoll. What odds of that happening?


Not as long as we are "fighting a war on drugs" like this:

"A system for sentencing guidelines for federal offenders which directs someone like Officer Brandon McFadden to receive self-surrender, 20 months for dealing 26 kilos of methamphetamine, and to keep his $400,000 house, which was undoubtedly built in part with drug money, demonstrates again the accuracy of the often repeated claim that the law is an a$s"
--  Attorney Stephen Jones


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on January 23, 2013, 10:42:00 am
Not that this will fly any time soon...

Oklahoma Senate to review state's medicinal marijuana policy, penalty

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws)

Quote
An Oklahoma senator has filed two separate bills that could change the state's laws on marijuana.

House Bill 902 would legalize medicinal marijuana while HB 914 would reduce the penalty for those caught with a small amount of marijuana.

Currently, the maximum penalty for possessing 1.5 ounces is one year in jail and a $1,000 fine.

Senator Constance Johnson proposes cutting the maximum to 10 days in jail and a $200 fine.

Rogers County Sheriff Scott Walton is against both proposals.

"It's not time to loosen up on anything," he said.

As for why he opposes medicinal marijuana, he just looks to the states where a similar law has already been enacted.

"It's an absolute joke," he said. "I stub my toe and now I need a script for a dime bag of weed? I think that should be a slap in the face to the medical profession or the pharmaceutical profession."

Not everyone opposes the proposals.

"I think that there are definitely medicinal purposes to marijuana," said Tulsa native Katja Newton. "I think that it has been proven with all the science and all the research that's been done."

Newton supports the decriminalization of marijuana and is in favor of Johnson's proposal to reduce the penalties.

"I think we are spending so much money by sticking people in jail for such a small thing as carrying a small amount of marijuana," she said.

If approved, the legislation would into effect Nov 1.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 23, 2013, 01:29:04 pm
Oklahoma Senate to review state's medicinal marijuana policy, penalty
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws)

The Rogers County attention grabber opposes it not on the grounds that its some form of evil, but rather that people would have better access to it.

Someone obtaining it from legal commercial means, is worse than clandestine encounters with shady characters?
Seems to say a lot about their economy.  ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 23, 2013, 02:24:12 pm
I got an email from an acquaintance up in Nederland, Colorado.

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.

Who said dope doesn't make you stupid?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on January 23, 2013, 02:29:03 pm

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.


Which means their hours will be cut to below 30 hours a week.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on January 23, 2013, 04:26:30 pm
I got an email from an acquaintance up in Nederland, Colorado.

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.

Who said dope doesn't make you stupid?

You seem to be knowledgeable about this.....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 23, 2013, 05:30:46 pm
I got an email from an acquaintance up in Nederland, Colorado.

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.

Who said dope doesn't make you stupid?


More likely pissed that the margins will decline due to the reduced risk of adverse outcomes from cultivation and sale.  Local enforcement has always been the big risk, so if that is gone, it is just a crap shoot if the Feds would get you.  No extra risk...no reason for huge profit margins.

We are already seeing the reduction in illicit profits for decriminalized/legalized marijuana.  No more Mexican drug lords - who is gonna import expensive foreign mj if there is just as good available here at half price or less!  Instead de-emphasis of the drug cartels.  Now, on to coke and meth....

How much more does it take before reality reaches the Fed level?







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on January 23, 2013, 05:59:23 pm
Growers in Colorado are licensed and closely monitored. The system is regulated to the point that conservatives might even become believers in operations under government control. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 23, 2013, 08:42:24 pm

More likely pissed that the margins will decline due to the reduced risk of adverse outcomes from cultivation and sale.  Local enforcement has always been the big risk, so if that is gone, it is just a crap shoot if the Feds would get you.  No extra risk...no reason for huge profit margins.

We are already seeing the reduction in illicit profits for decriminalized/legalized marijuana.  No more Mexican drug lords - who is gonna import expensive foreign mj if there is just as good available here at half price or less!  Instead de-emphasis of the drug cartels.  Now, on to coke and meth....

How much more does it take before reality reaches the Fed level?

Given the number of local law makers/enforcers that believe federal law is optional (at least when it comes to guns and health insurance) a Fed epiphany might happen quicker than we might have believed possible.  Certainly within our lifetimes.

On a more local level, the enforcement mindset is also in need of a serious re-boot. 
Deputy Dangle will be counting on WOD grants and overtime to help get little Debbie her braces, while his boss depends on a little brown bag of cash left under the big rock way yonder to pay off his casino debt. 
Perhaps the only way to deal with their resistance to a change in the status quo (and the money flow) is to pay good cops what they are worth.

Just yesterday, however, an appeals court refused to reconsider the federal rule that classifies marijuana as more dangerous than methamphetamine, but that's just a bump in the road in our long journey out of the dark ages.

When Google or Verizon (for example) dont hesitate at seriously expanding in Oklahoma, we will know we are on the right path.


 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 24, 2013, 06:49:19 am
Given the number of local law makers/enforcers that believe federal law is optional (at least when it comes to guns and health insurance) a Fed epiphany might happen quicker than we might have believed possible.  Certainly within our lifetimes.

On a more local level, the enforcement mindset is also in need of a serious re-boot.  
Deputy Dangle will be counting on WOD grants and overtime to help get little Debbie her braces, while his boss depends on a little brown bag of cash left under the big rock way yonder to pay off his casino debt.  
Perhaps the only way to deal with their resistance to a change in the status quo (and the money flow) is to pay good cops what they are worth.

Just yesterday, however, an appeals court refused to reconsider the federal rule that classifies marijuana as more dangerous than methamphetamine, but that's just a bump in the road in our long journey out of the dark ages.

When Google or Verizon (for example) dont hesitate at seriously expanding in Oklahoma, we will know we are on the right path.

 


I used to believe that stuff about "within our lifetimes".... 45 years ago.  No more.  Neither I, nor you will live long enough to see the powers that be voluntarily give up the cash flow created by illicit marijuana.  (I am still a little bit surprised that the US repealed prohibition!)

As for paying good cops what they are worth...whew!  What a can of worms that one is.  But the principle also applies to firemen, teachers, etc.  And the institutionalized resistance we see to that concept is pretty well gonna guarantee it can't happen.  See the posts on Fallin's tax cuts....apply liberally.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on January 24, 2013, 08:25:16 am

Neither I, nor you will live long enough to see the powers that be voluntarily give up the cash flow created by illicit marijuana.

I used to believe this as well. But seeing voters in Washington and Colorado pass initiatives and their states seeing tourism dollars made me reconsider. Then seeing Pat Robertson flip and talk about medical marijuana made me sit up and pay attention. Medical treatments go in cycles and homeopathic and natural solutions are really fashionable right now.

You are right. It is really all about cash. But once some state shows it to be revenue positive, the game will change.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on January 24, 2013, 10:35:19 am

You are right. It is really all about cash. But once some state shows it to be revenue positive, the game will change.

You've seen how slowly Oklahoma tends to act in regards to progression.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 24, 2013, 10:58:17 am
This is at the Federal level, though.  Obama has been about as "liberal" as I have ever heard a President be, and he says it isn't a priority with him.  Which is a king-dog, major fail!  (To decriminalize mj)

Saving $20 billion a year in Federal enforcement.  Saving how many billions nationwide for incarceration costs.  Saving how many lives - a few here and many more across the border for just stopping enforcement of mj importation.  

I have a feeling that mj cross border movement is the real monetary driver for the drug cartels...just a gut feeling kind of thing based on the relative volume of useage and kinds of dollars the news is always hawking about as the money involved.  If there is $800 billion in mj, and $30 billion in cocaine and heroin, then the driver is mj.  (Anyone have some good numbers on the relative annual values??).  That means that the criminal organizations would shrink dramatically, the amount per person involved in trafficing would go down - quite possibly to pretty much nothing.  If someone is making $50,000 a week selling mj and legally, it goes to $50 a week...or less, the activity cannot be supported.  Nobody will be "selling" high dollar mj.  And if all those dealers turn to the other drugs, well, there is a limited market, spread across relatively more suppliers.  Price competition, fewer suppliers, collapse of the industry possibly?  Harvard School of Business 101.

Get the profits OUT of illicit drugs and the business will fail!  By definition.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 24, 2013, 11:37:48 am
Get the profits OUT of illicit drugs and the business will fail!  By definition.

The old-school train of thought is that seizure and forfeiture of "drug profits" would accomplish that, but it is self-serving and just fuels corruption.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM3KqIt3f64

Its also unduly hard on off-the grid country folk that don't trust banks and always carry cash, sometimes loosing their life savings because a drug dog picked up on the traces commonly found on paper currency. 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/31/drug-search-trekies-stopped-searched-illinois_n_1364087.html

The idea of the Mexican Cartels going belly up because no one needs their products anymore... they may have to change their business model to peddling donkey porn just to survive once that happens.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on January 24, 2013, 11:42:59 am
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/555437_585579198122722_613999819_n.jpg)

By the time Okiehoma gets around to this issue, the thrill will be gone....or we'll all be dead whatever comes first.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on January 24, 2013, 12:53:04 pm
I have a feeling that mj cross border movement is the real monetary driver for the drug cartels...just a gut feeling kind of thing based on the relative volume of useage and kinds of dollars the news is always hawking about as the money involved.  If there is $800 billion in mj, and $30 billion in cocaine and heroin, then the driver is mj.  (Anyone have some good numbers on the relative annual values??).  

Only that you should never believe the value you're told on the news. If I had had to pay those prices when I was just leaving high school I would have starved to death.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on January 24, 2013, 01:49:58 pm
We all know that if you couldn't grow you're own Marijuana that it would be legal and sold everywhere, like yesterday.
But there is no way that the GubMint will ever cut out the middle man. Even with huge profits from taxation on every pack sold. They want every last penny from anything grown and if that can't happen. The horror stories will continue about the use and abuse. And people will still be incarcerated for years at a rediculous cost to every State and the Country.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 24, 2013, 05:57:52 pm
We all know that if you couldn't grow you're own Marijuana that it would be legal and sold everywhere, like yesterday.
But there is no way that the GubMint will ever cut out the middle man. Even with huge profits from taxation on every pack sold. They want every last penny from anything grown and if that can't happen. The horror stories will continue about the use and abuse. And people will still be incarcerated for years at a rediculous cost to every State and the Country.


Unless we quit electing people like Inhofe....over and over again.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 24, 2013, 08:06:26 pm
Only that you should never believe the value you're told on the news. If I had had to pay those prices when I was just leaving high school I would have starved to death.

While "the news" arent the ones making those numbers up, they are the ones too lazy to go out and do some unbiased research.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 24, 2013, 08:38:41 pm

Is it just me, or is Ke$ha actually Ann Coulter...??
I mean, yeah, she does look younger than Ann, but there is also a lot of makeup involved.  Just seems too close to be a coincidence...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOubzHCUt48





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on January 25, 2013, 02:06:11 pm
I'm against it. We don't need more people with altered brains on the streets. We have enough problems with alcohol as it is, we don't need legal MJ on top of that... No way.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 25, 2013, 02:08:49 pm
I'm against it. We don't need more people with altered brains on the streets. We have enough problems with alcohol as it is, we don't need legal MJ on top of that... No way.

Because everyone who has ever used alcohol is a reprobate lush. 

Think responsibly  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on January 25, 2013, 02:11:23 pm
I'm against it. We don't need more people with altered brains on the streets. We have enough problems with alcohol as it is, we don't need legal MJ on top of that... No way.

Here dickhead, take a hit! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/11/vaportini-alcohol-vaporizer_n_2458038.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 25, 2013, 06:44:45 pm
I'm against it. We don't need more people with altered brains on the streets. We have enough problems with alcohol as it is, we don't need legal MJ on top of that... No way.


Again...just showing off what you don't know...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on February 04, 2013, 04:57:12 pm
HOLY SMOKIES! RUN THIS UP THE FLAG POLE!
Quote
MONDAY, FEB 4, 2013 04:06 PM CST
Dems move to change federal pot laws
Reps. Earl Blumenauer and Jared Polis to introduce bill Tuesday to end prohibition
BY ASSOCIATED PRESS
http://www.salon.com/2013/02/04/dems_move_to_change_federal_pot_laws/

“You folks in Washington and my friends in Colorado really upset the apple cart,” Blumenauer said. “We’re still arresting two-thirds of a million people for use of a substance that a majority feel should be legal. … It’s past time for us to step in and try to sort this stuff out.”


“We’re seeing enormous political momentum to undo the drug war failings of the past 40 years,” said Bill Piper, director of national affairs for the Drug Policy Alliance, who has been working with lawmakers on marijuana-related bills. “For the first time, the wind is behind our back.”


Blumenauer said he expects to introduce the tax-code legislation as well as a bill that would reschedule marijuana under the Controlled Substances Act, allowing states to enact medical marijuana laws without fear that federal authorities will continue raiding dispensaries or prosecuting providers. It makes no sense that marijuana is a Schedule I drug, in the same category as heroin and a more restrictive category than cocaine, Blumenauer said.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 04, 2013, 06:58:15 pm
Keep in mind, I'm a proponent of such legislation even though I won't be partaking.  True fiscal conservatives should laud this legislation as long past due.  We waste billions every year policing, prosecuting, and warehousing people for a drug which is far less deleterious to society than alcohol.

I still could not pass the opportunity for a clever re-write:

Quote
MONDAY, FEB 4, 2013 04:06 PM CST
Dems move to change federal pot laws
Reps. Earl Blumenauer and Jared Polis to introduce bill Tuesday to end prohibition
BY ASSOCIATED PRESS
http://www.salon.com/2013/02/04/dems_move_to_change_federal_pot_laws/

“You dudes in Washington and my homies in Colorado really knocked over the twinkie wagon, I mean the taco truck, ah um...wait man...oh yeah upset the apple cart!” Blumenauer said. “We’re still busting I mean like millions and millions of good people for smoking really high grade weed that a majority of people should try! … It’s HIGH time for us to step in and try to snort this stuff out.”


“We’re seeing enormous political momentum to undo, oh, wait...where was I?  Oh, that drug war thing has just sucked! who's got some Dr. Pepper, I've got killer cotton mouth,” said Bill Piper, director of national affairs for the Drug Policy Alliance, who has been working with lawmakers on marijuana-related bills. “For the first time, the smoke is behind our back.”


Blumenauer said he expects to introduce the tax-code legislation as well as a bill that would reschedule marijuana under the Controlled Substances Act, allowing states to enact medical marijuana laws without fear that federal authorities will continue raiding dispensaries or prosecuting providers. It makes no sense that marijuana is a Schedule I drug, in the same category as heroin and a more restrictive category than cocaine, Blumenauer said.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 04, 2013, 08:24:53 pm
Conan,
That was great!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on February 19, 2013, 02:58:37 pm
This doesn't help the case for legalization.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281102/Drivers-stoned-road-test-evaluate-Washingtons-marijuana-DUI-laws-entertaining-video.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on February 19, 2013, 03:11:25 pm
This doesn't help the case for legalization.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281102/Drivers-stoned-road-test-evaluate-Washingtons-marijuana-DUI-laws-entertaining-video.html

Meh...

I have many friends and friends of docs who will not seek a script because of this: http://www.wbur.org/2013/02/19/marijuana-laws

One potential scenario: A doctor who becomes a medical marijuana patient would be at “significant risk” of violating his or her license to practice medicine, according to Bill Ryder, legislative and regulatory counsel for the Massachusetts Medical Society.

Come on Feds...follow suit in the states rights cause. We know it's hard with all those state whacko's on the extreme right trying to be revolutionaries and take over our culture from the bottom up. Let it go Federalies! The fight is on!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 19, 2013, 03:23:01 pm
This doesn't help the case for legalization.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281102/Drivers-stoned-road-test-evaluate-Washingtons-marijuana-DUI-laws-entertaining-video.html

You're not supposed to be driving on medical marijuana (or any prescription painkillers) so this shouldn't matter.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on February 19, 2013, 04:04:05 pm
So basically they found out that if you get so stoned you don't really want to drive you can't drive, unless you're a habitual user in which case you apparently can drive OK. And even if you're not, you've gotta smoke a gram of some of the most potent marijuana in existence inside of an hour or two to get stoned enough to be visibly impaired. TV news is awesome.

The Daily Mail is awesome, too, completely misrepresenting the text of the story in the lede.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 19, 2013, 09:59:47 pm
If you can't believe the insurance industry, who can you trust?  They say that stoned drivers have fewer accidents...

One study by the U.S. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration shows that drivers with THC in their systems have accident responsibility rates lower than those of drug-free drivers.

http://www.4autoinsurancequote.com/uncategorized/reasons-why-marijuana-users-are-safe-drivers/


And as always, Sauerkraut is wrong.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on February 19, 2013, 10:30:19 pm
If you can't believe the insurance industry, who can you trust?  They say that stoned drivers have fewer accidents...

One study by the U.S. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration shows that drivers with THC in their systems have accident responsibility rates lower than those of drug-free drivers.

http://www.4autoinsurancequote.com/uncategorized/reasons-why-marijuana-users-are-safe-drivers/


And as always, Sauerkraut is wrong.



Nah, not always.

It's tasty on Brätwurst.

 ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 19, 2013, 11:23:50 pm
Meanwhile, the lost war wages on...

A 65-year-old woman recently came under suspicion for having a Buckeye leaf decal on her car.  The cops mistook it for a marijuana symbol.
“It’s just amazing they would be that dumb,”  Bonnie Jonas-Boggioni said.

She lives in Plano, Texas, but she grew up in Columbus and is known as a lifelong Buckeyes fan.
She has served as president of the Ohio State Alumni Club in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

On Feb. 4, Jonas-Boggioni and husband Guido Boggioni, 66, were driving home to Plano after a trip to Columbus to attend the funeral of his mother, Eleanor, 92.
They were in the westbound lanes of I-40, a few miles east of Memphis, when a black police SUV with flashing lights pulled them over, Jonas-Boggioni said. A second black SUV soon pulled up behind the first one.
“Knowing I wasn’t speeding, I couldn’t imagine why,” she said.

Two officers approached, one on each side of the car.
“They were very serious,” she said. “They had the body armor and the guns.”

“What are you doing with a marijuana sticker on your bumper?” he asked her.
She explained that it is actually a Buckeye leaf decal, just like the ones that Ohio State players are given to put on their helmets to mark good plays.

“He looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language,” she said.

The officer then explained that someone from outside his jurisdiction — apparently another officer — had spotted the leaf sticker and thought it might indicate that the car was carrying marijuana, Jonas-Boggioni said.
She was too rattled to notice what police department the officers represented. But she suspects that a joint drug-interdiction effort was under way because they had passed several law-enforcement vehicles from different agencies.

Neither the Tennessee Highway Patrol nor the Shelby County sheriff’s office in Memphis had information about the traffic stop. A marijuana sticker would not be a sufficient reason to stop a car, said a spokeswoman for the West Tennessee Drug Task Force.

Before they let her go on her way, the officers advised Jonas-Boggioni to remove the decal from her car.
“I said, ‘You mean in Tennessee?’ and he said, ‘No, permanently.’


http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/life_and_entertainment/2013/02/14/buckeye-leaf-mistaken-by-police-out-of-state.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on February 19, 2013, 11:38:02 pm
Nah, not always.

It's tasty on Brätwurst.

 ;D

Or corned beef or pastrami........  :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on February 20, 2013, 08:29:37 am
Thats hilarious Patric. The Police might want to do a "compliance" check over at Starship and other Head Shops around town. Since them stickers might lead to more traffic stops.  ::)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 20, 2013, 09:22:06 am
If you can't believe the insurance industry, who can you trust?  They say that stoned drivers have fewer accidents...

One study by the U.S. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration shows that drivers with THC in their systems have accident responsibility rates lower than those of drug-free drivers.

http://www.4autoinsurancequote.com/uncategorized/reasons-why-marijuana-users-are-safe-drivers/


And as always, Sauerkraut is wrong.



Except the website you sourced is not an "insurance industry" web site.  It's nothing more than a commercial solicitation site for car insurance quotes. There are multiple problems with this "report".  Some "studies" cited are now 30 years old, there is no bibliography of all these other studies, and we have no idea if the Dutch authority listed is actually a scientific or governmental authority.  If NHTSA ever actually did agree that pot improves driving performance, that is no longer their position on it, according to information I sourced directly from NHTSA below.

I'm only bringing this up because there's a good lesson here about how much crap circles the internet with very little to corroborate what they claim.  That problem has a lot to do with the half truths, hyperbole, and outright lies in the political sphere that help widen the political divide in this country, but I digress.  There are probably nuggets of truth scattered around the report you cited, but there is also a lot of un-named sources for the author's conclusions.  From personal experience, I can honestly say smoking pot while snow skiing made me feel much more focused but I have no empirical evidence to back that up, only stoned recollection.

This is the official word on what the National Highway Safety Transportation Board says.  Noted the bibliography with referenced reports at the end.


Quote
Smoking marijuana can seriously impair the ability to drive a motor vehicle safely, but many marijuana users actually believe they drive better while under the influence of cannabis.

An article on this website titled Marijuana Causes Many Deaths Reported as 'Accidents', drew comments from many self-reported marijuana users who insisted their driving is not affected by being high, and in fact, some were adamant that their driving skills actually improve under the influence.

But scientific research does not back up these claims. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration reviewed 25 published studies conducted on the effects that smoking marijuana has on driving skills and performance. The review was part of the agency's effort to determine the effects on driving of more than 16 illegal and prescription drugs.

The resulting NHTSA Fact Sheets not only outlined the overall effects of smoking marijuana on users, but detailed specifically how smoking weed can impair driving skills. Following are some of the findings.

1. Problem Solving
One of the known effects of marijuana is that it hampers the ability call on past experiences to solve immediate problems, which could be dangerous in an emergency traffic situation. Studies have also shown that marijuana can cause problems with memory and learning, distorted perception, and difficultly in thinking.

2. Attention Span
Research has shown that heavy users of marijuana have difficulty in sustaining attention over an extended period of time. Other studies have found that weed smokers are hampered in shifting attention to deal with changes in their environment. Heavy smokers also have problems registering, processing and using new information. All of these factors can hamper driving ability.

3. Driving Performance
Several studies have reported that marijuana users exhibit decreased vehicle handling performance, increased reaction times and impairment in estimating time and distance. Other studies have found that marijuana impairs the driver's ability to maintain headway and maintain sustained vigilance.

4. Perceptual Functions
Laboratory studies of drivers using marijuana have found that smokers' sensory functions are not severely impaired, but their perceptual functions are significantly altered. Researchers report lab results that sleepiness and uncoordination can also affect driving skills of smokers.

5. Dose-Related Impairment
Several studies have shown that driving impairment is dose-related. In other words, the more someone has smoked, the greater the impairment. This is particularly true in regards to the ability to concentrate and maintain attention, and for hand-eye coordination.

6. Distortion
Other skills impaired by marijuana use that can cause the loss of driving ability include distortion of time and distance, impairment of retention time and tracking, and vigilance and loss of coordination. These impairments can be dangerous when driving at higher speeds or over longer periods of time, research shows.

7. Short-Term Focus
Some studies have shown that marijuana users can indeed focus their concentration and actually improve their driving performance by overcompensating for their self-perceived impairment. However, drivers in these studies were able to do this for only a brief period of time. The greater the demands placed on the driver in these studies, the less they were able to overcome their impairment.

8. Prolonged Trips
Research has found that smoking marijuana can have significant impairment during monotonous or prolonged driving. The longer the drive, and the more monotonous the driving becomes, the greater the chance that reaction times are impaired.

9. Long-Term Effects
Generally, marijuana use significantly impairs a driver's skills for the first 1-2 hours, but driving simulator studies have found impaired skills up to 3 hours. Some studies have recorded residual effects on driving up to 24 hours after marijuana use.

10. Increases Alcohol's Effects
Studies have found that simultaneously smoking marijuana and drinking greatly increases the impairment effects of both drugs. Experts say that mixing alcohol and marijuana does not have an additive effect on driving skills, but a multiplying effect. The resulting impairment is greater than either drug would be by itself.

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. " Drugs and Human Performance Fact Sheets: Cannabis / Marijuana." March 2004

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. "Drug-Impaired Driving: Understanding the Problem and Ways to Reduce It: A Report to Congress (PDF)" December 2009

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/drugged/tp/Ways-That-Marijuana-Impairs-Driving.htm

Related information from NHTSA:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/People/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm

Quote
Performance Effects: The short term effects of marijuana use include problems with memory and learning, distorted perception, difficultly in thinking and problem-solving, and loss of coordination. Heavy users may have increased difficulty sustaining attention, shifting attention to meet the demands of changes in the environment, and in registering, processing and using information. In general, laboratory performance studies indicate that sensory functions are not highly impaired, but perceptual functions are significantly affected. The ability to concentrate and maintain attention are decreased during marijuana use, and impairment of hand-eye coordination is dose-related over a wide range of dosages.Impairment in retention time and tracking, subjective sleepiness, distortion of time and distance, vigilance, and loss of coordination in divided attention tasks have been reported. Note however, that subjects can often “pull themselves together” to concentrate on simple tasks for brief periods of time. Significant performance impairments are usually observed for at least 1-2 hours following marijuana use, and residual effects have been reported up to 24 hours.

Effects on Driving: The drug manufacturer suggests that patients receiving treatment with Marinol® should be specifically warned not to drive until it is established that they are able to tolerate the drug and perform such tasks safely. Epidemiology data from road traffic arrests and fatalities indicate that after alcohol, marijuana is the most frequently detected psychoactive substance among driving populations. Marijuana has been shown to impair performance on driving simulator tasks and on open and closed driving courses for up to approximately 3 hours. Decreased car handling performance, increased reaction times, impaired time and distance estimation, inability to maintain headway, lateral travel, subjective sleepiness, motor incoordination, and impaired sustained vigilance have all been reported. Some drivers may actually be able to improve performance for brief periods by overcompensating for self-perceived impairment. The greater the demands placed on the driver, however, the more critical the likely impairment. Marijuana may particularly impair monotonous and prolonged driving. Decision times to evaluate situations and determine appropriate responses increase. Mixing alcohol and marijuana may dramatically produce effects greater than either drug on its own.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 20, 2013, 11:23:22 am
The Police might want to do a "compliance" check over at Starship and other Head Shops around town. Since them stickers might lead to more traffic stops.  ::)

I would not think a headshop would want to sell a buckeyes decal.  What would that be, the "K-2" of bumberstickers?

http://www.ksn.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=3947794


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on February 26, 2013, 10:52:23 am
Senate panel kills medical marijuana bill

http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1503758629/Oklahoma-Senate-panel-kills-medical-marijuana-bill (http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1503758629/Oklahoma-Senate-panel-kills-medical-marijuana-bill)

Quote
A Senate committee on Monday defeated a proposal to legalize the medical use of marijuana in Oklahoma, but the bill’s author said she considers it a victory that the measure was even granted a legislative hearing. Members of the Senate Health and Human Services Committee voted 6-2 against the measure in a party-line vote with Republicans in opposition. “I think it’s a step in the right direction in terms of moving it forward and getting some indication of what people’s reservations are so we’ll know what to address,” said Sen. Constance Johnson, D-Oklahoma City, who has introduced several bills over the last six years to allow for the medical use of marijuana or ease the penalties for possession of the drug.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 26, 2013, 12:21:29 pm
Senate panel kills medical marijuana bill
http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1503758629/Oklahoma-Senate-panel-kills-medical-marijuana-bill (http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1503758629/Oklahoma-Senate-panel-kills-medical-marijuana-bill)

So Republicans dont get cancer?
I didnt know that was what it was all about.  :(


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on February 28, 2013, 08:55:14 am
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/justice-department-poised-respond-states-legalized-marijuana-100308025--election.html

so it really begins....


I read about our councilors attempting to take control of the city's marketing efforts from our deeply bedded duplicitous chamber in Warren's World today. Then I saw this article on Yahoo.

Poor Tulsa. They will never get in front of the curve....the rest the country is so much more appealing.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 28, 2013, 09:17:09 am
I got a contact buzz just from looking at the image connected to the story.

(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/AnnVQYcW_z_SXWg_uXLY2A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NQ--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/theticket/98543789.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on February 28, 2013, 10:34:42 am
Reduced marijuana penalties OK’d by Oklahoma panel

http://newsok.com/reduced-marijuana-penalties-okd-by-oklahoma-panel/article/3759545 (http://newsok.com/reduced-marijuana-penalties-okd-by-oklahoma-panel/article/3759545)

Quote
Criminal penalties for marijuana possession in Oklahoma would be reduced under a bill passed without objection by a House committee. The House Public Safety Committee voted 14-0 on Wednesday for the bill that would make first and second offenses of marijuana possession a misdemeanor. Under current law, a second offense is a felony punishable by between two and 10 years in prison. Stillwater Democratic Rep. Cory Williams says he would have preferred to make all marijuana possession offenses misdemeanors, but that such a proposal was unlikely to pass the committee.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 07, 2013, 08:42:20 pm
Illinois Medical Marijuana House Committee Vote: Panel OKs Pot Plan
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/07/illinois-medical-marijuana-house_n_2828463.html


Quote
"Seriously ill people who receive significant relief from their use of marijuana should not be treated like criminals," Riffle said. "If their doctors believe treating their conditions with medical marijuana will improve the quality of their lives, they should not have to risk being arrested and prosecuted."

Opponents to the bill argue it would increase recreational use of the drug especially among teens, though such attitudes are quickly shrinking in to the minority: A February poll of Illinois residents overwhelmingly support the legalization of marijuana in the state.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 08, 2013, 08:07:53 pm
U.S. States Race to Put New Medical Marijuana Laws on the Books
http://www.counselheal.com/articles/4258/20130307/u-s-states-race-put-new-medical-marijuana-laws-books.htm


Quote
In the wake of marijuana legalization in Colorado and Washington, many states that had not considered legalizing medical marijuana are. In fact, Florida, Illinois and New Hampshire are allowing for similar allowances. Other states with medical marijuana programs are seeking to improve or expand their programs.

Medical marijuana has become increasingly popular. Though the federal government officially says that the medical benefits of marijuana are still relatively unproven, three dozen states either have laws allowing it or are considering it. More people believe that marijuana legalization should be legal in general. According to the Central Florida News, 51 percent of Americans believe favorably in legalization.

It seems that lawmakers are taking notice. In Illinois, the Huffington Post reports that the House of Illinois will be considering a bill to approve medical marijuana. Though this would not be the first time that such a bill was considered in the state of Illinois, legislators believe that they have tightened regulations to make the bill more appealing on both sides of the aisle. Medical marijuana would be accessible to people with a qualifying condition, like cancer, HIV and multiple sclerosis, and who have a special identification card. The approved users would be able to purchase cannabis at any of the 66 state-approved dispensaries.

In the Northeast, New Hampshire lawmakers will be considering the legalization of medical marijuana. The Associated Press reports that the legislature has previously passed three similar bills, all of which have been vetoed by the state's governor. This bill, if signed into law, would forbid out-of-state consumers from purchasing cannabis in the state's dispensaries, which was allowed in previous versions.

In Florida, legislators filed a bill this week would allow medical marijuana in the state. Named the Cathy Jordan Medical Cannabis Act, the bill is named after the President of the Florida Cannabis Action Network. Ms. Jordan suffers from Lou Gehrig's disease and, earlier this week, police seized medical marijuana from her home.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on April 04, 2013, 06:29:44 pm

Quote
Poll: Majority Supports Legalizing Marijuana
For the first time in four decades of polling on the issue, Pew Research found that a majority of Americans supports legalizing marijuana.
Just over seven in 10 Americans say efforts to enforce marijuana laws “cost more than they are worth.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/04/04/poll-majority-supports-legalizing-marijuana/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on April 04, 2013, 07:16:28 pm
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/04/04/poll-majority-supports-legalizing-marijuana/

The opiate of the people...all because of George W. Bush. :D



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 21, 2013, 08:42:22 pm
(CBS News) Eighteen states and Washington D.C. have legalized medical marijuana. Connecticut joined that group last year.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57580651/conn-cancer-patient-fights-marijuana-loophole/
While it's legal to use medical marijuana there, it's not legal to grow it, and there's no place open that legally sells it.

That's left some patients risking arrest to get the relief they say they need.
At first glance, 42-year-old Tracey Gamer Fanning appears to be a typical mom in suburban Connecticut.
She is not.

"I use medicinal marijuana," she said. "I am breaking the law right now because we don't have growers and distributors here in Connecticut."
In 2006, Fanning, then the mother of a 4-year-old and 18-month-old, was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer.
Racked by seizures, debilitating headaches, and oppressive pain medication she spent much of her time in bed -- until she tried marijuana.

"The first time I ever did it," Fanning said. "It gave me my life back."
Connecticut did not allow the medical use of marijuana at the time. The suggestion came from her doctor, Andrew Salner.
"It's always somewhat difficult for me because when I make a recommendation about trying marijuana," Salner said. "It is telling someone to potentially put themselves in harm's way to go purchase an illegal drug."

"This is the drawer of medications that I am very proud to say I don't take anymore," Fanning said. "This is my vaporizer which is a very safe way to use medicinal marijuana. It allows you not to get the carcinogens from smoking. It's not the traditional way people think of smoking pot, it turns it into a vapor."
If it weren't for marijuana, Fanning said, she would not be herself.
"I would not be this," she said. "And this is what everybody hopes to have six and a half years later after being diagnosed."



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 22, 2013, 12:33:55 pm
What kind of terminal brain cancer doesn't kill you in 7 years??  Just curious... makes me kind of think that life is a terminal disease.....oh, wait....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 11, 2013, 06:29:52 pm
I would never defend someone driving under the influence, but this Draconian measure goes way too far:


Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY — Governor Mary Fallin just approved an amendment to House Bill 1441 that could take some drivers by surprise. The sub-section deals with the definition “under the influence.” What’s new, is that the wording now says that any amount of a Schedule 1 drug like Marijuana found in your system can put you behind bars if you’re driving.

Officials can find those trace amounts in your body fluids.  Now the wording includes metabolites, which are part of the breakdown of many substances. Attorney Charles Sifers said with alcohol there is set number of .08.  With this law, there is no specific number.

“In this instance any amount of Schedule 1, or any metabolite from Schedule 1, presumes you under the influence.”

Sifers also said that if metabolites can now be used as part of the measurement, people may not be impaired from the drug, but will still register it in their system.

“Marijuana can stay in your system a long time.  Long after any impairing or effecting comes from smoking the marijuana.

Sifers believes blood tests will have to be closely monitored. Lawmakers have not responded to his concerns as of yet.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 11, 2013, 08:19:44 pm
I would never defend someone driving under the influence, but this Draconian measure goes way too far:



Agreed. Metabolites can be in the system for days and even a few weeks, IIRC.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 12, 2013, 11:21:22 am
Just another example of Fallin failin'.  Yeah,... we're gonna attract the top job creators in the world today....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 15, 2013, 07:12:08 pm
Just another example of Fallin failin'.  Yeah,... we're gonna attract the top job creators in the world today....


Steve Jobs would have never made it here.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on June 16, 2013, 01:27:46 pm
I'll make the case against legal MJ ~the drug is mind altering and we don't need any more people in public with altered brains we have enough problems  with alcohol and illegal drug use as it is without making MJ legal. The drug stays in your body for a full month. That heavy equipment operator in PA who knocked down that building and killed 6 people was on MJ. Do we want people at work running machines and equipment on drugs? I'm against legal MJ or any drugs. Get high on life not drugs. The only reason for MJ is to alter your brain and thinking process. However, I do think the laws for drug use are crazy and don't fit the crime. Giving someone 25 years for drug crimes is nuts, save that space for criminals. BTW, many criminals use drugs.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on June 16, 2013, 01:33:54 pm
Get high on life

I used to get high on life, then I built up a tolerance. Now it takes a week for me to seize the day.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on June 16, 2013, 04:36:52 pm
I used to get high on life, then I built up a tolerance. Now it takes a week for me to seize the day.

You must be getting old (too ;D).


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 16, 2013, 06:25:56 pm
I'll make the case against legal MJ ~the drug is mind altering and we don't need any more people in public with altered brains we have enough problems  with alcohol and illegal drug use as it is without making MJ legal.... I'm against legal MJ or any drugs. Get high on life not drugs.... BTW, many criminals use drugs.

You are making a case for alcohol prohibition.
It was tried, and failed.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 16, 2013, 07:24:36 pm
You are making a case for alcohol prohibition.
It was tried, and failed.



Just post a face palm pic, Patric, that's all that's warranted in this case.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 16, 2013, 08:51:44 pm
I'll make the case against legal MJ ~the drug is mind altering and we don't need any more people in public with altered brains we have enough problems  with alcohol and illegal drug use as it is without making MJ legal. The drug stays in your body for a full month. That heavy equipment operator in PA who knocked down that building and killed 6 people was on MJ. Do we want people at work running machines and equipment on drugs? I'm against legal MJ or any drugs. Get high on life not drugs. The only reason for MJ is to alter your brain and thinking process. However, I do think the laws for drug use are crazy and don't fit the crime. Giving someone 25 years for drug crimes is nuts, save that space for criminals. BTW, many criminals use drugs.


I was just gonna post the fact that your entire post is idiotic....but that would be redundant.  Is this an admission of what is going on with you?...too much marijuana??

And Conan got it right...considered yourself quadruple face palmed!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 17, 2013, 09:36:26 am
Just post a face palm pic, Patric, that's all that's warranted in this case.

Perhaps.  Im just curious as to the demographic of people that believe that garbage.
Orwell describes them as "slogan swallowers" in Nineteen Eighty-Four (a book that desperately needs to be put back on the required reading list)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 26, 2013, 10:55:07 pm

Misrepresenting designer drugs as "synthetic marijuana"


The term “synthetic weed” is a known misnomer. “Spice” is manufactured by spraying dried herbs with the chemical cannabicyclohexanol, a cannibinoid receptor agonist; it does not actually contain tetrahydrocannibinol (THC), the active ingredient of the cannabis plant.

“Spice” is mimicry, not duplication. It is simulation, not synthesis.

But CNN has a history of muddying the facts where marijuana is concerned. Just last March, they published this dubiously-titled ditty:  “Synthetic marijuana just as dangerous“, doubly misinformative in that it overstates the danger of real marijuana to those who don’t know better, and understates the danger of “Spice” to those who do.

http://skepticallyleft.com/2013/02/06/cnn-flubs-synthetic-weed-story/

Though "K2" and "Spice" are more akin to drugs like PCP, their false association with marijuana may be a smokescreen -- a deliberate attempt by various interests to snuff the growing nationwide trend towards marijuana law reform.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 08, 2013, 06:56:01 pm
Quote

CNN's chief medical expert Sanjay Gupta announced Wednesday night that he has reversed his blanket opposition to marijuana use.

Speaking to Piers Morgan, Gupta, who has a documentary on weed airing on Sunday, said he had previously helped to "mislead" the American public about the effects of the drug.

"I have apologized for some of the earlier reporting because I think, you know, we've been terribly and systematically misled in this country for some time," he said. "And I did part of that misleading."

He also wrote an op-ed called "Why I Changed My Mind On Weed." In it, he said that, while he had formerly derided medical marijuana supporters, he had done research that had shown him how beneficial it could be:

    I mistakenly believed the Drug Enforcement Agency listed marijuana as a schedule 1 substance because of sound scientific proof. Surely, they must have quality reasoning as to why marijuana is in the category of the most dangerous drugs that have "no accepted medicinal use and a high potential for abuse."

    They didn't have the science to support that claim, and I now know that when it comes to marijuana neither of those things are true. It doesn't have a high potential for abuse, and there are very legitimate medical applications. In fact, sometimes marijuana is the only thing that works.

Gupta's dramatic intervention could prove influential in the ongoing debate about American drug policy; he is considered a prominent enough voice on medical issues that President Obama wanted to name him Surgeon General during his first term. (Gupta declined.)











Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 08, 2013, 09:35:27 pm



Gupta's comments are one of those "blah, blah, blah, blah..." moments.  The information has been available for decades, including the history of exactly why it was proscribed.  DuPont and Hearst being two main drivers of the effort.  So any repentant conversion at this point is welcomed, but I look at it with an extremely jaded eye - why wait until now to come to his senses?

Wonder if there is some effort to stir up controversy for his documentary...make a few extra rating points so the commercials will be more valuable?  No, I didn't think so...no one would ever be motivated by money on this topic!

I guess we will see just how sincere this conversion is by how fervently he embraces the efforts to legalize the stuff.  Keeping in mind, there is none so pious as a repentant sinner!


I just love when I get to use a little sarcasm!!







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 13, 2013, 06:55:23 pm
Quote
STILLWATER, Okla. — Oklahoma’s arrest rate for marijuana possession is slightly above the national average, and arrest rates vary considerably among counties, according to an Oklahoma Watch analysis of 10 years’ worth of FBI data.

In 2010, the most recent year for which data is available, the median arrest rate by Oklahoma state and local law-enforcement agencies  was about 270 arrests per 100,000 population, slightly higher than the national rate of 256.

Over a decade, from 2001 to 2010, the average annual rates for Oklahoma counties varied widely, from fewer than 200 to more than 1,000 arrests per 100,000 residents.

A medium-size county on the eastern side of the state, Sequoyah, led the state with an annual average rate of 1,090 marijuana arrests per capita. The state’s two largest counties, Oklahoma and Tulsa, ranked in the middle, with about 300 arrests.

Meanwhile, two of Oklahoma’s smaller counties, Coal and Woods, place second and third, with 804 and 646 arrests.

Sequoyah County Sheriff Ron Lockhart said he wasn’t surprised to see his area ranked number one in marijuana arrests. Since taking office in 2009, Lockhart said he’d made drug arrests a priority by adding narcotics detectives and focusing on seizing drugs on Interstate 40, which runs through his county.

Stillwater Police Chief Ryan McCaghren, head of the largest police agency in Payne County, which ranked 13th out of the state’s 77 counties, cited two factors for his county ranking high: a large percentage of young people in the Stillwater area, and an aggressive drug and narcotics unit.

Payne County’s marijuana arrest rate is 405 per 100,000 residents.

“It is a priority,” McCaghren said of drug-related arrests in his department.

http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x738624265/OKLAHOMA-WATCH-Enforcement-efforts-boost-pot-busts


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 08, 2013, 10:42:16 pm
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., told attendees of a Tucson town hall meeting Thursday that the United States might want to legalize marijuana.

McCain made the relatively unprompted call for drug policy reform when an attendee asked why the U.S. should intervene in Syria's civil war, but not in Mexico, where drug cartels are locked in a deadly conflict with the government and each other.

The 2008 GOP presidential nominee then launched into a lesson about economics to explain drug smuggling and said he was open to legalizing marijuana.

"Let me just say what's going on in Mexico, in my view, to some degree, is our responsibility... because we're creating a demand for drugs in this country and when there's a demand, there's going to be a supply," McCain said.

"Legalize it!" some crowd members mumbled.

"Well, maybe we should legalize it," he responded, "we are certainly moving that way so far as marijuana is concerned, but I will respect the will of the people."

He then hammered home his economic explanation of drug smuggling, saying: "They are bringing these drugs across to our country because there's a demand for them and there's going to be a supply wherever there is a demand."
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2013/09/06/watch-mccain-says-maybe-we-should-legalize-marijuana-cites-economics-and-mexican-cartels


(http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/Gordon20024/42e731bd-f4ab-4136-8d1d-0cbd5c81e7a1_zps4eb89e9c.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 24, 2013, 08:23:35 pm
Quote
Arizona's medical-pot program actually works like this



As medical students at Georgetown University, we were indoctrinated with the traditions and values of our attending physicians. It was there that I was taught how to care for patients. It was there that I first heard and would hear repeatedly throughout my training: Pain is what the patient says it is.

That value is critical to the practice of medicine. It establishes a foundation of trust between physician and patient. It begins the conversation with, “I believe you,” so that you can move forward to “How can I help you?”

That value is what made reading The Arizona Republic editorial board’s comments about patients who use Arizona’s medical-marijuana law for chronic pain treatment so upsetting (“Cheech and Chong would love Arizona's medical-pot law,” Nov. 12).

I have been an emergency medicine physician for 12 years. One thing almost every one of my patients has in common is that they are in pain. Pain is the warning signal our bodies use to let us know that something is wrong.

Many patients present to the ER with chronic pain. Old injuries (reflex sympathetic dystrophy, arthritis, malocclusion, poor wound healing), adhesions (any abdominal surgery), migraines, chest pain, joint and extremity pain (rheumatoid arthritis, autoimmune disorders, septic joints, bone spurs), pelvic pain. Chronic pain encompasses all of these things as well as many others.

Does that make it less real? Should I turn them away from the emergency room because chronic pain just couldn’t be a reason someone would turn to a physician for help and relief? Fakers. Con artists. Drug addicts.

Unless you are old. Or have cancer. Right?

The 20-year-old with chronic pain due to spasticity from cerebral palsy. Wait. Sorry. He’s 20. Couldn’t be in that much pain yet. Faker. Con artist. Young, male recreational-drug user working the system.

According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies, 100 million Americans suffer from chronic pain. Fakers. “Inherently dishonest” con artists. Or maybe it is that the Institute of Medicine is “chronically gullible,” to use a phrase in The Republic’s editorial.

These same patients are often encouraged by their physicians to seek alternative therapies when it seems that Western medicine has explored all of its options. When Vicodin turns to Oxycontin turns to Fentanyl, and then you are chemically dependent and out of options.

Yet these same doctors won’t write you a “recommendation.” It’s scary as a physician. I wouldn’t do it. Risk my license? Be reported to the Arizona Department of Health Services? Scrutinized? Exposed? Definitely not worth losing my job! So these same doctors print out patient records and hand them to their patients. “Go to a recommendation center. I can’t do it.”

Will Humble, director of the ADHS, is disingenuous when he says he wants the primary-care physicians to write medical-marijuana recommendations. That will not happen as long as the physician receives federal reimbursement for services (e.g. Medicare) and fears this will be taken away. That will not happen until physicians can speak freely without fear of reprisal. Mr. Humble is a smart guy. He knows this.

The patients who jump through the hoops to get their cards are then sent out to the dispensaries. Usually these are located in an industrial area. Surrounded by chain-link fences with cameras following your every move while a security guard looks you up and down. Dispensaries are kept away from the normal daily traffic of people. Away from the God-fearing, upstanding citizens we must protect from this ... non-lethal plant.

Why can’t they just go to a pharmacy where all the other drugs are? Simple. Because it’s still federally illegal.

But Arizona voters stood up three years ago and said, “Enough.” The federal government is wrong. The Drug Enforcement Agency is wrong. The propaganda of the “Reefer Madness” hysteria of the 1930s is just that — propaganda.

If you would do a little research, you would know there is no way to meaningful therapeutic research because the National Institute on Drug Abuse won’t release the “study drug” for research that does not specifically address drug abuse. They are the only ones with a federally authorized cannabis farm!

You want a dose-controlled pharmaceutical product? Did you know that cannabis concentrates are currently illegal under the Arizona criminal code? I would guess from The Republic’s uninformed editorial that editorial-board members do not.

Please, Republic editorial board, do readers a favor and use your platform responsibly. The editorial was sloppy journalism even as an opinion piece. If you disagree with how the Arizona Medical Marijuana Program works, you can at least make a respectable argument instead of throwing around judgments, accusations and raunchy references to pop culture. The readers of The Arizona Republic deserve better.

Gina Mecagni has practiced emergency medicine in the Valley for 12 years.
http://www.azcentral.com/opinions/articles/20131123medical-pot-arizona-mecagni.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 29, 2013, 07:28:36 pm
Quote
(CNN) -- Anti-marijuana crusaders like Kevin Sabet, while well-intentioned, are promoting policies that lead to more violence and disease in our society. In his recent CNN.com op-ed, Sabet argues we should keep marijuana illegal. But as long as marijuana remains illegal, profits from sales go to criminals and drug cartels, and adults will continue to be punished for using a substance less harmful than currently legal drugs.

Confused? Let's back up. For more than 80 years, our government has spent tens of billions of taxpayer dollars fighting a war against marijuana. We arrest three-quarters of a million adults every year, 87% for simple possession rather than production or sales of marijuana. Courtrooms turn into assembly lines churning out probationers -- mostly minorities -- with convictions that will make it virtually impossible to find employment.

The result? Marijuana is universally available, used by almost half of Americans at some point in their lives, and we've enriched murderous drug cartels fueling violence in Mexico that has claimed more than 60,000 lives.

Of course, we've been down this road before. During alcohol prohibition in the 1930s, federal agents raided speakeasies and busted barrels of illegally produced and imported booze. Meanwhile, bootleggers made money hand over fist, empowering criminals like Al Capone to turn Chicago into an urban war zone. And much like with marijuana today, even under alcohol prohibition most Americans who wanted a drink had no problem finding one.

Today, marijuana prohibition has proven itself just as disastrous a public policy failure as alcohol prohibition before it. Yet despite all the obvious similarities between the two, there's one key difference: Marijuana is dramatically safer than alcohol.

According to the Centers for Disease Control, excessive alcohol use is the third leading lifestyle-related cause of death. In a typical year, there are roughly 25,000 alcohol-induced deaths in the United States, most from long-term consequences like liver disease and some from acute alcohol poisoning brought on by binge drinking.

Marijuana, on the other hand, does not cause overdose deaths and comes with far fewer long-term health consequences. A 2009 Canadian study determined the annual health-related costs associated with alcohol are more than eight times greater per user than with marijuana. And, according to the Institute of Medicine, people who use marijuana are far less likely to become dependent than those who drink alcohol.

Even if you don't drink, alcohol can kill you. Federal agencies report that 40% of violent crimes in the U.S. are linked to alcohol use, whereas those same agencies report that marijuana users usually do not commit violent crimes. Alcohol plays a role in a third of all emergency room visits. As a prosecuting attorney, I often had police confess to me how much they loathed arresting drunks, given how often the situation escalated to violence. I never fielded similar complaints about marijuana consumers.

The irony is that these perverse policies are cheered on by organizations with names like "Save Our Society" that seem to believe chaos will somehow ensue if adults are no longer punished for using marijuana. The reality is that by punishing adults who would rather use marijuana, we're encouraging them to instead use alcohol -- a more dangerous and harmful, but legal, drug. Public policy should be geared toward reducing violence and disease, not maximizing them.

There is a better way. Polling shows a majority of Americans want marijuana taxed and regulated. A growing number of states are bucking our federal government's policy of absolute marijuana prohibition, and the Department of Justice recently signaled it will not challenge state laws that regulate the cultivation and sale of marijuana.

By doing so, we can take marijuana away from criminals and cartels and put it in the hands of licensed businesses. Obviously, those businesses should be subject to sensible rules ranging from where and when they can operate and who is able to invest in them, to restrictions on advertising.

Don't believe it could work? In 2009, Colorado's medical marijuana industry exploded, prompting the state to put in place the kinds of regulations I've just outlined. According to CDC data on youth drug use, from 2009 to 2011 -- a time when youth marijuana use increased nationally -- the percentage of Colorado teens using marijuana dropped more than any other state in the country and is now below the national average.

Marijuana is safer than alcohol; let's treat it that way. Adults who would prefer to use marijuana instead of alcohol should be free to do so. Just as significant, the law enforcement resources spent making those three-quarters of a million arrests could instead be devoted to preventing and solving real crimes.

In other words, regulating marijuana would make America a safer, healthier nation.


Editor's note: Dan Riffle is a former assistant prosecutor and the director of federal policies at the Marijuana Policy Project, the primary financial backer of the 2012 campaign to regulate marijuana in Colorado.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/opinion/riffle-marijuana-safety/






Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Nik on January 06, 2014, 03:11:46 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/12/27/legalizing-pot-could-save-california-hundreds-of-millions-every-year-state-says/


Legalizing pot could save California hundreds of millions every year, state says


A proposed ballot measure that would legalize possession, use, growth and cultivation of marijuana would save the state of California hundreds of millions of dollars a year, according to a summary issued Thursday by the state attorney general’s office.

The summary [pdf], which Attorney General Kamala Harris’s (D) office releases for each proposed ballot measure, says the state would save “in the low hundreds of millions of dollars annually” on law enforcement costs associated with enforcing marijuana laws.

As an added bonus, Harris’s office said sales tax revenues could add more cash — again, in the “low hundreds of millions of dollars annually” — to the state’s bottom line.

Supporters of the proposed ballot measure would need to collect 504,760 signatures by May 23 to get the initiative — formally known by its ballot title, “Marijuana Legalization. Initiative Statute” — on the 2014 ballot.

The group backing legalization won’t actually be collecting signatures for this version of the bill; the lead sponsor told the San Francisco Chronicle that they had tweaked the initiative’s language to allow individuals to grow more marijuana for personal use. A revised version [pdf] of the ballot initiative, dubbed the “Marijuana Control, Legalization and Revenue Act of 2014,” is scheduled to be reviewed by the attorney general’s office by the end of January, the Chronicle reported.

Both versions of the measure would legalize the use, growth, cultivation, possession, transportation, storage and sale of marijuana, while creating a commission to regulate and issue business licenses for cultivation and sales.

The measure would apply retail sales taxes to marijuana sold for recreational purposes, while allocating that money equally to education, health care, law enforcement and drug abuse programs. It also prevents state and local law enforcement officials from enforcing federal marijuana laws.

Some California officials who back marijuana legalization had urged fellow supporters to wait until 2016, when the electorate will be larger, younger and more ethnically diverse, to put a measure on the fall ballot. But the ballot summary is so favorable that strategists think they will be able to pass the measure even in the lower-turnout midterm year.

California has been in the vanguard of the pro-marijuana movement. The state was the first in the country to legalize the possession and use of marijuana for medical purposes, back in 1996. In 2010, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) signed legislation decriminalizing possession of an ounce or less.

If the ballot measure passes, California would be the third state to legalize marijuana, along with Washington and Colorado, where voters legalized the drug through ballot measures this year.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 07, 2014, 11:12:32 am
The measure would apply retail sales taxes to marijuana sold for recreational purposes, while allocating that money equally to education, health care, law enforcement and drug abuse programs.

In Oklahoma, that money instead goes into the pockets of the privileged and corrupt.
 
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/06/cnn-poll-support-for-legal-marijuana-soaring

"Attitudes toward the effects of marijuana and whether it is morally wrong to smoke pot have changed dramatically over time. That also means that marijuana use is just not all that important to Americans any longer."





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 07, 2014, 11:28:17 am
Amazing the claims opponents make about MJ- "it contains many carcinogens", "it’s a gateway drug”, “it leads to decreased motivation and productivity”, “it’s addictive" etc.

More people who eventually abuse prescription drugs likely started out drinking rather than with pot.  Tobacco and alcohol, which are perfectly legal, are known to cause many different cancers and debilitating diseases.  Hang overs cause loss of productivity and decreased motivation.  Regular pot smoking can lead to an emotional addiction, however there is no evidence that the body becomes physically addicted like it does to alcohol or tobacco.

Prohibition of marijuana has been a much bigger failure than prohibition of alcohol ever was.  Consider all the money wasted incarcerating people over pot and enforcing laws written nearly 100 years ago based on misinformation and fear, not to mention the loss of life in drug wars which would not exist if pot were legal.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on January 07, 2014, 12:14:53 pm
Amazing the claims opponents make about MJ- "it’s a gateway drug”,

I believe breast milk is a gateway drug to alcohol.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on January 07, 2014, 01:55:03 pm
Prohibition of marijuana has been a much bigger failure than prohibition of alcohol ever was.  Consider all the money wasted incarcerating people over pot and enforcing laws written nearly 100 years ago based on misinformation and fear, not to mention the loss of life in drug wars which would not exist if pot were legal.

Nancy Grace would like you to know that you must be fat and lazy, sitting on the sofa eating potato chips since you disagree with her.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 07, 2014, 02:14:12 pm
Nancy Grace would like you to know that you must be fat and lazy, sitting on the sofa eating potato chips since you disagree with her.

Does Nancy Grace still run her law office out of a double-wide?
...or was that her suicide hotline?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 07, 2014, 05:18:07 pm
I believe breast milk is a gateway drug to alcohol.


That explains a whole lot of things....!!

Guess I never was properly weaned....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 07, 2014, 05:19:57 pm
Nancy Grace would like you to know that you must be fat and lazy, sitting on the sofa eating potato chips since you disagree with her.

Can anyone actually stand to listen to that voice??  That would be the torture that would break me and make me talk...then would have to put a bullet through my head if had to listen to that.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 07, 2014, 06:30:34 pm
Gee Nate, thanks for wrecking the thread with this image:

(http://blogs.ajc.com/view-from-cop/files/2010/09/nancygrace.jpg)

Now where did I leave my bag of Nacho Cheese Doritos?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on January 08, 2014, 08:49:59 am
Gee Nate, thanks for wrecking the thread with this image:

We aim to please!  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 08, 2014, 02:23:04 pm
Making it legal may a good thing for these states, and maybe more states until there is a national reform, but it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of employers that drug test as a pre-hire, random test, or test after an incident still consider it a banned substance, and I doubt the employers in these states that are national employers are going to give residents in Washington and Colorado a pass while enforcing it in other states.

Yes, I know alcohol is part of the screening process, and also now employers are using hair samples to check for drugs and nicotine as part of the screening process.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 08, 2014, 03:57:32 pm
Making it legal may a good thing for these states, and maybe more states until there is a national reform, but it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of employers that drug test as a pre-hire, random test, or test after an incident still consider it a banned substance, and I doubt the employers in these states that are national employers are going to give residents in Washington and Colorado a pass while enforcing it in other states.

Yes, I know alcohol is part of the screening process, and also now employers are using hair samples to check for drugs and nicotine as part of the screening process.

You see (and point out) one of the problems with the shift in power from a stronger Federal government to the "Laissez Faire" approach Fox News would want us to take...they advocate Laissez Faire ONLY for big business, though.  Keep the Feds out of business and let them do as they please.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 08, 2014, 06:43:19 pm
Making it legal may a good thing for these states, and maybe more states until there is a national reform

Add another:

ALBANY, N.Y.—Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday he would move to make medical marijuana available to patients with serious illnesses, making New York the latest state to ease restrictions on the drug.

Currently, 21 states and the District of Columbia allow the use of marijuana for certain medical purposes.




“I’m an unlikely champion for this cause,” said Georgia Rep. Allen Peake, a businessman from Macon who attended the evangelical Dallas Theological Seminary. “Once people realize it’s not a 6-year-old smoking a joint, most folks realize this is the compassionate thing to do.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/medical-marijuana-gains-traction-in-the-deep-south/2014/02/09/f0720630-919f-11e3-97d3-f7da321f6f33_story.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 08, 2014, 10:40:33 pm
It willl be interesting how this plays out over the next couple of years. From an article in HuffPo, they sold $5million in the first week, and their projection is that the state will bring in an estimated $70mil in taxes the first year. (enough to cover the tax incentives for three Macy's DC's) I'll bet that tax revenue will decline after the newness wears off, and the possibility of other states making recreational use legal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/08/marijuana-sales-colorado_n_4552371.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/08/marijuana-sales-colorado_n_4552371.html)

I have been in favor of legalize, regulate from seed to sale, and tax marijuana since I was in high school in the late 70's, back when it was one of the biggest cash crops in OK.

My thought on the whole thing is that as long as it remains a class one narcotic at the federal level, it is by law a controlled substance, and if the fed is going to turn a blind eye to states legalizing the recreational sale, they need to get off their collective butts and change it's status.

Employers are going to have to wrestle with how to handle it, and as I said previously, I bet national companies, Home Depot, Lowes, department stores etc, will continue to say that it is part of their drug screening process for employees and any positive test can lead to termination regardless of state law.

Personally I haven't in 30+ years, because I realized my lively hood was more important.

Maybe this is the time to change it, I think that it's long overdue.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 22, 2014, 12:41:34 pm
Maybe this is the time to change it, I think that it's long overdue.

...But it's the #1 concern of the state narcos:

Mark Woodward, with the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics, said, “I’ve seen it wreck more lives than any other drug.”

http://kfor.com/2014/01/20/senator-pushes-for-legalization-of-marijuana

OK, thats a pretty insulated existence.  Time to get out of the gated community and see how many schools and roads really need their funding back.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 22, 2014, 01:26:15 pm
...But it's the #1 concern of the state narcos:

Mark Woodward, with the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics, said, “I’ve seen it wreck more lives than any other drug.”

http://kfor.com/2014/01/20/senator-pushes-for-legalization-of-marijuana

OK, thats a pretty insulated existence.  Time to get out of the gated community and see how many schools and roads really need their funding back.

Does Woodward realize alcohol is a drug?  That’s wrecked more lives than any other.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 22, 2014, 01:54:52 pm
Does Woodward realize alcohol is a drug?  That’s wrecked more lives than any other.

Probably not, and he will also tell you the same the next time he's mildly smootfaced at his own cocktail party.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on January 23, 2014, 03:14:19 pm
Nancy Grace debates.....Nancy Grace?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRb_t053SQ[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 23, 2014, 03:25:57 pm
Nancy Grace debates.....Nancy Grace?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRb_t053SQ[/youtube]

“She took six hundred peeeeels!”

Nancy Grace after Anna Nicole self immolated.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 24, 2014, 12:03:09 pm
Probably not, and he will also tell you the same the next time he's mildly smootfaced at his own cocktail party.

#winning


As for former prosecutor Nancy Grace...

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/nancy-grace/n45301/

and the smoking (ahem) gun:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Bqob-weFk[/youtube]



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 24, 2014, 12:35:54 pm
#winning


As for former prosecutor Nancy Grace...

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/nancy-grace/n45301/

and the smoking (ahem) gun:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Bqob-weFk[/youtube]



I think Mason’s choice in munchies must be Twinkies


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 11, 2014, 11:55:14 pm
Medical marijuana now used for pediatric epilepsy

http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=4931293

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Medical-marijuana-now-used-for-pediatric-epilepsy/5AXv4FJKZkKppTX10nae7g.cspx

http://www.normantranscript.com/new/x1783667790/Senator-announces-new-nonpartisan-alliance-to-reform-marijuana-policy-in-Oklahoma




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 12, 2014, 11:30:51 am
Just decriminalize it altogether and skip the backdoor approach with medical MJ.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 12, 2014, 01:20:35 pm
Just decriminalize it altogether and skip the backdoor approach with medical MJ.

Im willing to wait and see if we have the maturity to show compassion to suffering children.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 12, 2014, 04:38:42 pm



OK, thats a pretty insulated existence.  Time to get out of the gated community and see how many schools and roads really need their funding back.

It's just another lie - he is obviously a dealer in such...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 13, 2014, 01:24:16 pm
It's just another lie - he is obviously a dealer in such...

He was on fox23 saying how he's seen it destroy families, but he sidestepped whether that was the drug or the enforcement.
Gov. Failin was at the same gig not wanting the kids driving high, and mumbling about gateway drug yadda yadda.

Within two years, this could all be a punchline in a sad joke:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/marijuana-rally-and-lobby-day-draws-patients-supporters-to-oklahoma/article_cb1eb9d1-54e5-500d-9428-384264f64961.html

According to the poll, 89% of New Yorkers support making medical marijuana legal, and 57% favor the legalization of recreational marijuana
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/poll-support-legal-marijuana-gaining-new-york-state-article-1.1617325

Washington DC Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession
http://www.voanews.com/content/washington-dc-city-council-decriminalizes-marijuana-possession/1864280.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on February 14, 2014, 12:19:01 pm
Color me old fashioned, but I'm totally against making any mind altering drug legal, we have enough problems with drunk drivers and alcohol, we don't need to add to that list by making MJ legal. The chemicals in MJ can linger in the body over 4 weeks after it's last used, it will still show up on a drug test. We have enough people on the streets with altered brains as it is by using illegal drugs and alcohol clouding the brain--- So do we really want to add to that list? Funny to, they are banning tobbacco all over the place and it seems some people want to replace tobacco use with pot use, that makes alot of sense.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on February 14, 2014, 02:05:43 pm
Color me old fashioned, but I'm totally against making any mind altering drug legal, ...

Research at the University of York and Hull York Medical School has found a connection between depression and low levels of folate (folate comes from leafy vegetables, beans, cereal and sunflower seeds).  Dr. Simon Gilbody and his research team examined 11 previous studies involving 15,315 subjects to come to their conclusion.

These items all are mind-altering. I say ban them too.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 14, 2014, 02:15:33 pm
Color me old fashioned, but I'm totally against making any mind altering drug legal, we have enough problems with drunk drivers and alcohol, we don't need to add to that list by making MJ legal. The chemicals in MJ can linger in the body over 4 weeks after it's last used, it will still show up on a drug test. We have enough people on the streets with altered brains as it is by using illegal drugs and alcohol clouding the brain--- So do we really want to add to that list? Funny to, they are banning tobbacco all over the place and it seems some people want to replace tobacco use with pot use, that makes alot of sense.

It's more about personal liberty and responsibility.  I thought you were big on both those RWRE concepts..??  What happened to unwarranted government intrusion in people's lives?  You of all people, according to your past tendencies and expressed opinions should be in favor of legalization if for no other reason than the government butting into other's business!

And in another particular, it's more about since you seem to believe "We have enough people on the streets with altered brains as it is by using illegal drugs and alcohol clouding the brain" - your words!  Why compound the stupidity by spending tens of billions a year in our hard earned taxpayer money to prosecute and incarcerate the mj smokers?  It has been absolutely obvious even to the most insular - or should be if they had a brain - that mj usage has no adverse effect on either individuals or society, as compared to the impacts of cigarettes and alcohol.  Or even compared to the very real, documented dangers of bathtubs!  So why penalize people who just want to catch a buzz and mellow out with a bag of Doritos and watch some tv?




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 14, 2014, 02:16:12 pm
Research at the University of York and Hull York Medical School has found a connection between depression and low levels of folate (folate comes from leafy vegetables, beans, cereal and sunflower seeds).  Dr. Simon Gilbody and his research team examined 11 previous studies involving 15,315 subjects to come to their conclusion.

These items all are mind-altering. I say ban them too.

Oh, carp!  You just ruined my day - I love sunflower seeds!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 06, 2014, 12:44:03 pm
Only two days after the  City Council in D.C. voted to decriminalize marijuana (http://"http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/dc-council-votes-decriminalize-some-marijuana-use"), the Tulsa City Council is taking public comments on doing something similar.  
Hopefully it wont all be from the for-profit prison industry.

3/6/2014 6:00 PM 175 E. 2nd St., Tulsa, OK 74103
Council Chamber, 2nd Floor

11. HEARING OF PUBLIC COMMENTS
   b.    Public comment calling for council resolution urging the state legislature to recognize marijuana for medicinal purposes. 14-193-1
   

http://www.tulsacouncil.org/inc/search/meeting_detail.php?id=YWXNRYAV115201391436


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on March 06, 2014, 02:14:38 pm
Only two days after the  City Council in D.C. voted to decriminalize marijuana (http://"http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/dc-council-votes-decriminalize-some-marijuana-use"), the Tulsa City Council is taking public comments on doing something similar.  
Hopefully it wont all be from the for-profit prison industry.

3/6/2014 6:00 PM 175 E. 2nd St., Tulsa, OK 74103
Council Chamber, 2nd Floor

11. HEARING OF PUBLIC COMMENTS
   b.    Public comment calling for council resolution urging the state legislature to recognize marijuana for medicinal purposes. 14-193-1
   

http://www.tulsacouncil.org/inc/search/meeting_detail.php?id=YWXNRYAV115201391436


Let’s hope the patchouli parade doesn’t show up with bags of Doritos.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 06, 2014, 06:52:31 pm
Let’s hope the patchouli parade doesn’t show up with bags of Doritos.


Ooohhhh.....good idea!!  Doritos!!   And I have some Cheetos, too!!  Yay!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 06, 2014, 11:29:35 pm
Only two days after the  City Council in D.C. voted to decriminalize marijuana (http://"http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/dc-council-votes-decriminalize-some-marijuana-use"), the Tulsa City Council is taking public comments on doing something similar.  

11. HEARING OF PUBLIC COMMENTS
   b.    Public comment calling for council resolution urging the state legislature to recognize marijuana for medicinal purposes. 14-193-1

Oh, one small detail:  If you want public comments, invite the public.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on March 07, 2014, 08:06:43 am
And Paul Tay has entered the Fray. He actually went to the meeting in Camouflage Fatigues and sporting a NRA Camo hat. Fox 23 just couldn't help but put him on the air.

Not sure if he was the best representation of the Biking community. Or if Spandex Biker Fox would have pulled more weight when it comes to lobbying for Medical Doobies.  ::)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on March 07, 2014, 08:53:21 am
And Paul Tay has entered the Fray. He actually went to the meeting in Camouflage Fatigues and sporting a NRA Camo hat. Fox 23 just couldn't help but put him on the air.

Not sure if he was the best representation of the Biking community. Or if Spandex Biker Fox would have pulled more weight when it comes to lobbying for Medical Doobies.  ::)

Paul Tay never helps a cause.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 07, 2014, 10:51:34 am
And Paul Tay has entered the Fray. He actually went to the meeting in Camouflage Fatigues and sporting a NRA Camo hat. Fox 23 just couldn't help but put him on the air.
Not sure if he was the best representation of the Biking community. Or if Spandex Biker Fox would have pulled more weight when it comes to lobbying for Medical Doobies.  ::)

When you "solicit" public comments but dont actually inform the public of that, the result tends to be skewed towards those that just show up for meetings in general.  It was a squandered opportunity for not only the council, but for the media who either focused on distractions or missed the boat altogether.

Who could have been a better face for medical marijuana?

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/8dc3b87e92d36ab942bd5d00cfe7a74b/tumblr_mzt3wjvCpy1sr52l8o1_500.jpg)
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/48/b48dc196-07b6-598a-9f39-3e3b846cb57a/52e4c147850ec.image.jpg)
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/medical-marijuana-brings-oklahoma-families-to-colorado-to-treat-kids/article_e5eeb610-85de-52b9-a4f2-37a9e42b9737.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on March 07, 2014, 11:04:58 am
When you "solicit" public comments but dont actually inform the public of that, the result tends to be skewed towards those that just show up for meetings in general.  It was a squandered opportunity for not only the council, but for the media who either focused on distractions or missed the boat altogether.

Who could have been a better face for medical marijuana?

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/8dc3b87e92d36ab942bd5d00cfe7a74b/tumblr_mzt3wjvCpy1sr52l8o1_500.jpg)
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/48/b48dc196-07b6-598a-9f39-3e3b846cb57a/52e4c147850ec.image.jpg)
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/medical-marijuana-brings-oklahoma-families-to-colorado-to-treat-kids/article_e5eeb610-85de-52b9-a4f2-37a9e42b9737.html

How about instead of a backdoor approach where people simply line up to get cards that claim they have anxiety only treatable by MJ, we simply decriminalize it?

Obviously big pharma is afraid of losing revenue otherwise the FDA would clear the way nationally for medical MJ if there truly is medicinal benefit.  I’d think there must be un-told billions of dollars just laying there waiting for pharmaceutical companies to either extract THC or synthesize it for all sorts of beneficial treatments.

I don’t think private corrections companies are the sole movement against legal MJ.  Think about how many people are currently locked up for possession or using drugs currently allowed by the FDA.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 07, 2014, 02:31:53 pm
How about instead of a backdoor approach where people simply line up to get cards that claim they have anxiety only treatable by MJ, we simply decriminalize it?

Because politicians are still buying into/exploiting 1920's scare tactics?

'The Oklahoma State Bureau of Narcotics hopes the bill does not make it through the legislature. In fact, Woodward says marijuana is a dangerous drug. He says while a person can take a drink of alcohol and not get drunk, marijuana always causes a person to become impaired. "Everyone who smokes marijuana gets intoxicated, becomes high off of it and becomes a safety risk.”'

...so not only does that put OBNDD in conflict with ABLE, its another example of how the status quo bewilders people with misinformation.
Canibis Oil is often consumed with food, rather than smoked.  Cannibidiol (CBD) is a non-psychoactive component of marijuana that possesses a wide range of therapeutic benefits.
http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-medical-marijuana/2013/11/cannabidiol-the-side-of-marijuana-you-dont-know/


Obviously big pharma is afraid of losing revenue otherwise the FDA would clear the way nationally for medical MJ if there truly is medicinal benefit.  I’d think there must be un-told billions of dollars just laying there waiting for pharmaceutical companies to either extract THC or synthesize it for all sorts of beneficial treatments.

I don’t think private corrections companies are the sole movement against legal MJ.  Think about how many people are currently locked up for possession or using drugs currently allowed by the FDA.

It's not just the unwillingness of Big Pharma and the prison industry to tweak their profit models;
corporate money from Anheuser-Busch and Big Alcohol also find their way to police grants and media campaigns.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 03, 2014, 04:48:35 pm
"We are reaching a critical mass. Enough states have passed medical marijuana laws that state legislators can say, 'Well, this many states have passed it, so it can't be that disastrous.'"
http://www.fox23.com/mostpopular/story/Medical-Marijuana-State-Action-in-2014/9UFRBG6kOkWJs1UbpIvzdQ.cspx


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on April 03, 2014, 06:03:27 pm
It'll never fly in Oklahoma,  Wilbur, 'cause it's a gateway drug to voting a straight Democratic ticket, opening our borders to furriners, and possibly engaging in alternative lifestyles.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 16, 2014, 12:22:12 pm
Gov. would write executive order legalizing Medical Marijuana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWySlx_XZLI

..or lie to parents of sick children.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on April 16, 2014, 12:40:24 pm
Gov. would write executive order legalizing Medical Marijuana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWySlx_XZLI

..or lie to parents of sick children.

Election's coming.  She's going to lie


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 16, 2014, 06:33:45 pm
Gov. would write executive order legalizing Medical Marijuana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWySlx_XZLI

..or lie to parents of sick children.


You know she won't do the correct thing.  (She will, however, always do the Radical Reactionary Right thing....)


And this state keeps on electing her and her ilk...  T. W. Shannon, Jim Inhofe, Sally Kern..... those ilk!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 19, 2014, 04:17:26 pm
Prohibition of marijuana has been a much bigger failure than prohibition of alcohol ever was.  Consider all the money wasted incarcerating people over pot and enforcing laws written nearly 100 years ago based on misinformation and fear, not to mention the loss of life in drug wars which would not exist if pot were legal.

Despite the big shift in Americans attitudes towards legalization, the old guard is still well represented.

Take the story this week about the housewife who was shot by her hallucinating husband in the 13th minute of a 911 call.
All the blame was put on the husband eating a marijuana edible candy he legally purchased, but most media outlets ignored the handful of prescription narcotic painkillers he had also taken.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 09, 2014, 02:04:42 pm

“There is quiet, silent support, not only because our laws are ridiculous but because people either have used it or know someone who has, and all of the doomsday expectations just are not true,” says state Sen. Connie Johnson.
...it would legalize possession of 1 ounce of marijuana for personal use by adults 21 and older – or 1.5 ounces for doctor-approved medical use. It would allow residents to grow six plants at home.

In what would be the most groundbreaking part of the package, the initiative would allow commercial farms to export marijuana to states where it’s legal for recreational or medicinal use.  “It could be cultivated, packaged and sold right here in Oklahoma, and our law would allow it to be transported to other states where it is legal."
“This is a penal colony state. We don’t have much industry – it’s agriculture and the prisons”

A survey conducted by SoonerPoll found 71 percent of residents favor medical marijuana and 57 percent support decriminalizing possession of 1 ounce of marijuana.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/05/08/oklahoma-pot-legalization-cannabis-cash-crop





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on May 09, 2014, 05:12:15 pm
Oklahoma Initiative Would Make Pot a Legal, Exportable Cash Crop (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/05/08/oklahoma-pot-legalization-cannabis-cash-crop)

Yes please.

Very simply - about as many people smoke pot now as they would if it were legal.  Perhaps a few more would smoke pot (probably me) occasionally if it were legal.  But I don't think we would see a sudden surge in "heavy users." 

The "think of the children" argument is tired.  When I was a "kid" I got exactly as much pot as I could afford.  It was easier to get than alcohol.  It was true for my parents (class of '69), I assume it is true today.  Just like alcohol, tobacco, and huffing household whatevers - it isn't whether it is legal or not that dictates their behavior.

It would raise revenue. 

It will save money in enforcement and incarceration.

Reduce the criminal element.   The argument that cartels would simply shift their focus is probably true.  BUT - it isn't like MORE people will get into heroine or cocaine because the cartels now want them to.  Even as Marijuana becomes more available.

And, I believe, cut DOWN on driving while high.  We cut down on driving while drunk - because people are aware of it and it is not socially acceptable.  Driving while high is still a "secret" problem.

YES - evidence exists that smoking pot is not good for you.  100% agree that is probably true.  But the drink I had at lunch isn't good for me.  The pork butt, chips and beer I plan on having at the BBQ tonight are not good for me. The cigar I smoke while fishing, also bad for me.  My afternoon redbull habit is bad.   But it's hard to argue for small government AND at the same time argue that pot should be illegal because it is unhealthy.

Uncle Sam, Oklahoma City - listen to reason and stop this reefer madness.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 11, 2014, 10:12:56 pm


The "think of the children" argument is tired.  When I was a "kid" I got exactly as much pot as I could afford.  It was easier to get than alcohol.  It was true for my parents (class of '69), I assume it is true today.  Just like alcohol, tobacco, and huffing household whatevers - it isn't whether it is legal or not that dictates their behavior.



Alcohol and grass were both trivial to get in 1969.  Had a booze supplier who sold quart bottles (back when they were quarts) - and it was customer choice, either clear or brown booze in the bottle.  And it was guaranteed to be 1/2 full or more - I never got less than a full bottle, but there could be supply shortages, so he would adjust as needed to serve the maximum number of customers - everyone could get a little....   $5.00.

No brand names - the bottle had labels, but due to the supply chain methodology, it might say Jim Beam and actually be a mix of Beam, Jack, Johnny Walker, etc.  Clear could be mix of gin, vodka, and tequila.  Depending on supply..... it would always give a buzz....





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 19, 2014, 11:15:57 pm
TULSA, Okla. - It's not if but when Oklahoma’s medical marijuana laws change, according to one of the country’s leading experts on medical cannabis.

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Medical-marijuana-expert-Oklahoma-native-thinks/gOMQyxuel06CVKrAfqWgkA.cspx

The Epilepsy Foundation supports increased access to medical marijuana, saying, "Nothing should stand in the way of patients gaining access to potentially life-saving treatment."
But Oklahoma law does stand in the way.

Aggarwal said compounds unique to marijuana interact with something in the brain actually named after the marijuana plant, or cannabis sativa. It's the endocannabinoid system.

“When you look at the distribution of those receptors in brain, nervous system, immune cells, it's like, 'OK, that's why it has that effect on inflammation, that's why it has pain-reducing effects, that's why it has reductions in muscle spasms, seizure activity, because it's involved' -- it's the circuits in the body that govern those things,” said Aggarwal.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 20, 2014, 08:37:23 am
Ain't it a b$tch when yet again, the RWRE are shown to be wrong.....


http://www.msnbc.com/all/does-marijuana-lower-the-crime-rate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/13/marijuana-crime-denver_n_5319298.html


And RT.com reported;

Compared to the same time period in 2013, overall property crime fell by 14.6 percent in Denver. Homicide rates, while not leaving the single digits in either year, fell by 66.7 percent while the number of robberies decreased by seven percent.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 30, 2014, 10:49:20 am
The federal wall is slowly coming down:


House blocks feds from going after medical marijuana
For the first time ever, Congress is taking action to protect – not condemn – medical marijuana use.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/congress-comes-out-medical-marijuana



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 30, 2014, 04:01:43 pm
The federal wall is slowly coming down:


House blocks feds from going after medical marijuana
For the first time ever, Congress is taking action to protect – not condemn – medical marijuana use.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/congress-comes-out-medical-marijuana




Being the eternal amoral opportunists they are, just reading the polls and making inane pronouncements....

"The heart and soul of the Republican party is that pro-freedom, individual philosophy that Reagan talked about," said Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), the primary Republican pushing the amendment.


Yet, for at least the last 34 year (actually many more) they have been the against freedom, anti-individual party - just the OPPOSITE of what Reagan talked about.....










Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 07, 2014, 10:03:45 pm
Quote
The vast majority of marijuana arrests in New York City are for the lowest misdemeanor charge -- criminal possession in the fifth degree -- in which the arrestee either possessed less than two ounces of marijuana, or had the drug "in public view."

Since 1977, possession of less than 25 grams of marijuana -- a little less than an ounce -- has been decriminalized in New York state. Under the law, those caught with such a small amount of weed are subject to a $100 violation for a first offense.

However, since the late-1990s, NYPD officers have been asking the hundreds of thousands of people they stop on the streets each year empty their pockets. In 2013, 85 percent of those people were black or Latino.

When pot comes out of the pocket, it becomes "in public view," thus allowing police to make an arrest for misdemeanor criminal possession in the fifth degree.
Arrestees can face up to three months in jail, and a criminal record.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 16, 2014, 09:50:25 pm
Medical marijuana proponents accuse Tulsa Police of harassment over petition
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/medical-marijuana-proponents-accuse-tulsa-police-of-harassment-over-petition/article_db704aa3-5f0d-5551-be54-67fb1988e07a.html


Quote
Circulators of an initiative petition seeking to legalize medical marijuana on Monday said they have been harassed by the Tulsa Police Department.

Chip Paul, chairman of Oklahomans for Health, said that on four days last week, police came to locations where his group was attempting to gather signatures to get the issue on the ballot. The locations were publicized in advance, he said.

Police asked the volunteers to leave, Paul said. When they responded that they were exercising a constitutional right to petition government, police began asking for identification, he said.

He said the “harassment” has impacted efforts to obtain the slightly more than 155,000 signatures needed to get the issue on the ballot.
“We know we are dealing with a controversial topic,” Paul said. “We are doing our best to run our campaign in a lawful, respectful and professional manner. We would expect the same respect from law enforcement.”

Leland Ashley, public information officer for Tulsa Police, said he found two records where calls were made to police concerning the petition circulators. Both calls indicated marijuana was being sold.

Paul said his organization has asked the ACLU of Oklahoma for assistance in resolving the matter.
“The collection of signatures for a ballot measure is the exercise of one’s fundamental right to petition their government under the First Amendment,” said Ryan Kiesel, executive director of the ACLU of Oklahoma. “And the government has no business interfering with that right or chilling the First Amendment activities of signature gatherers. We take any and all allegations of such interference very seriously and are looking into the matter and will respond appropriately.”


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 17, 2014, 07:33:12 am
Medical marijuana proponents accuse Tulsa Police of harassment over petition
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/medical-marijuana-proponents-accuse-tulsa-police-of-harassment-over-petition/article_db704aa3-5f0d-5551-be54-67fb1988e07a.html




Good thing it wasn't something of extremely large social import - like maybe the Viet Nam war protests - they would have just brought out the tear gas....

Ahh...the good ole TPD!  Gotta love 'em!  To he$$ with the Constitution - this is Oklahoma!!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 17, 2014, 12:35:08 pm

Good thing it wasn't something of extremely large social import - like maybe the Viet Nam war protests - they would have just brought out the tear gas....

Ahh...the good ole TPD!  Gotta love 'em!  To he$$ with the Constitution - this is Oklahoma!!

It doesnt take that much in Tulsa... just protesting predatory bank practices in a city park is sufficient:
http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/11/02/occupy-tulsa-pepper-spray-worst-abuse-yet/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 17, 2014, 02:24:18 pm
It doesnt take that much in Tulsa... just protesting predatory bank practices in a city park is sufficient:
http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/11/02/occupy-tulsa-pepper-spray-worst-abuse-yet/

Olbermann?  Really?  He’s high on paint.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 17, 2014, 03:37:12 pm
Olbermann?  Really?  He’s high on paint.


Deflection moment... Olberman isn't the point....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 17, 2014, 09:47:31 pm
TULSA, Okla. – The debate over legalizing marijuana is raging in Oklahoma, with strong opinions on both sides.

Now some supporters of legalizing marijuana tell FOX23 that Tulsa police interfered with them while they gathered signatures for a petition.
They shared this cell phone video with FOX23 that they say shows an officer confronting them.

"Just so you guys understand, we have no problem with you guys being here, but since he wants to be an a$shole and not tell us his past, that's why you have to leave,” said an officer on the tape.
The video shows TPD officers arriving at a petition site, gathering IDs to check into volunteers' past, and getting upset when one wouldn't give details about an old arrest.
“We're fine with this part of it, but because he doesn't want to cooperate, you guys are going,” said an officer on the tape.

Oklahomans for Health director Chip Paul said his volunteers were run off by police three days last week, and it's impacting the 90 days they have to collect just under 160,000 signatures in an effort to get medical marijuana on the November ballot.
“Police were nice and respectful when they rolled up, but their whole goal seems to be shutting us down, telling us to move. If we push back, it escalates,” said Paul.

FOX23 got a statement from the city explaining citizens complained about the group flying these marijuana flags and allegedly having signs saying the drug was sold at these locations.
One citizen report was even labeled "outside drug activity."

“We don't have an issue with people exercising their right. When we have a citizen call in, it is our duty to go to those locations and figure out what's going on and that's what we did,” said Jill Roberson with Tulsa police.

FOX23 found officers never filed a report for either call they responded to on Wednesday or Thursday, and they never found any drugs.
But the city's statement reads the group was on private commercial business properties.
“It is legal, but not on QuikTrip’s parking lot,” said an officer on the cell video.
That is a violation, but one Paul said his group is not guilty of committing.

“We're within our right to petition and we should never be moved from a public place or asked to move. We just want the problem fixed, we don't want to be hassled, we don't want to be harassed, however, a municipal authority has violated our civil rights,” said Paul.
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Supporters-of-marijuana-legalization-say-Tulsa/zJxgYN1h60i3dK8z11GCBA.cspx




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 18, 2014, 07:57:00 am

Deflection moment... Olberman isn't the point....


Yeah okay Mr. Baby Bush, Murdoch, RWRE, LWRE.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2014, 08:12:17 am
Yeah okay Mr. Baby Bush, Murdoch, RWRE, LWRE.


Really??   Come ON!!!  You can do much better than that!  Not getting lazy on me in your old age, are you??  Have noticed guido slacking a little, too!!  You two, and Gas, are much better and a lot more fun than that!!




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2014, 08:16:07 am

FOX23 found officers never filed a report for either call they responded to on Wednesday or Thursday, and they never found any drugs.
But the city's statement reads the group was on private commercial business properties.
“It is legal, but not on QuikTrip’s parking lot,” said an officer on the cell video.
That is a violation, but one Paul said his group is not guilty of committing.



Makes me wonder if QuikTrip was asked for permission to collect signatures?  And if not, why not??

And second, if QuikTrip DID give permission, why are the cops there to start with?

And third, if QuikTrip did NOT give permission, why not?  As they are major beneficiaries of the freedoms and liberties we enjoy in this country, why would they not support those same freedoms?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 18, 2014, 11:34:40 am

"Just so you guys understand, we have no problem with you guys being here, but since he wants to be an a$shole and not tell us his past, that's why you have to leave,” said an officer on the tape.
The video shows TPD officers arriving at a petition site, gathering IDs to check into volunteers' past, and getting upset when one wouldn't give details about an old arrest.
“We're fine with this part of it, but because he doesn't want to cooperate, you guys are going,” said an officer on the tape.

Oh, you can petition the government for a redress of grievances as long as you submit to daily spot warrant checks and not object to any invasive questioning (thats not relevant to collecting signatures for a petition nor any potential crime investigation).

I totally forgot thats how it works.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKbgdDDoJCA[/youtube]



It took a couple of incidents, but the department has finally decided to distance itself:

TULSA — Tulsa Police Department officers may have exceeded their authority in forcing some petitioners to leave a public area, and one officer's supervisor is looking into her conduct during the incident, which was caught on video.
http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/medical-marijuana-backers-claim-harrassment-tulsa-/ngMpQ/

The petitioners are heard on the video noting that they were on a public easement, and not blocking the sidewalk.
The officers then ask the people for ID's, which they receive, and the female officer goes to the patrol unit to check the names.

She returns and asks the man with the camera phone "What have you been in trouble for?"
He tells her that he was arrested once, but it was dismissed.
After he refuses to tell the officers what the arrest was for, the female officer tells the people they have to leave.

(PIO): "As a citizen you have the right to remain, if you're there on that easement, as long as you're not standing on the sidwalk, or blocking traffic, or blocking someone from walking, you have a right to stand there. Whether it's a protest or a petition, I'll tell you right now the police department, we don't have an issue with anyone exercising their First Amendment rights. Let me be real clear with that...that's really where the chief stands, and where the department stands."




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 18, 2014, 11:39:18 am

And third, if QuikTrip did NOT give permission, why not?  As they are major beneficiaries of the freedoms and liberties we enjoy in this country, why would they not support those same freedoms?

Totally a guess, but possibly pressure from Budweiser, whose owners are major contributors to efforts to stop any marijuana reform?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mason-tvert/big-alcohol-fueling-oppos_b_719878.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 18, 2014, 11:47:28 am
Totally a guess, but possibly pressure from Budweiser, whose owners are major contributors to efforts to stop any marijuana reform?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mason-tvert/big-alcohol-fueling-oppos_b_719878.html

But why?  I always enjoyed a Bud with a bud.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on June 18, 2014, 12:22:15 pm
So you need to produce valid ID in order to present petitions to voters?

There is a rule that you have to divulge your history to government agents on demand or you lose your right to petition?

If your a jackhole to a cop, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply?

Noted. Thanks!

This threat to police budgets must not stand!

Seems like the male cop was professional.  He can ask for info, as long as they voluntarily comply so be it.  She was hostile the entire time.  Then they crossed the line.  Should have told them they cannot be on private property and left it at that.

Sad when stoners come out more professional than the police.  Not the stoners never called the officers names or violated their rights when they felt offended.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: ARGUS on June 18, 2014, 03:24:17 pm
^^^"stoners"? Do you know if they actually smoke? The petitioners could be just casually dressed professionals trying to exercise their rights.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2014, 04:00:36 pm
At 8 minutes into this the cop starts calling the guy an a$$hole...!!??  Yeah, classy female - got some real "Lady" tendencies going on there.  Ascribing characteristics to someone else which one possesses in abundance to try to deflect attention....


Makes me proud of TPD!!

(Anyone note the sarcasm in the text?)


It's a shame there isn't a Rabon Martin type still around willing to champion causes that otherwise go wanting.... Stand up for the little guy getting bulldozed by the system... Start a civil rights legal action against the overbearing, obnoxious, untrammeled exercise of undeserved power....

(Tilting at windmills....)




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vision 2025 on June 20, 2014, 02:48:25 pm
I do miss Rabon...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 20, 2014, 06:49:41 pm
So you need to produce valid ID in order to present petitions to voters?
There is a rule that you have to divulge your history to government agents on demand or you lose your right to petition?
If your a jackhole to a cop, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply?

Noted. Thanks!

Seems like the male cop was professional.  He can ask for info, as long as they voluntarily comply so be it.  She was hostile the entire time.  Then they crossed the line.  Should have told them they cannot be on private property and left it at that.

Sad when stoners come out more professional than the police.  Not the stoners never called the officers names or violated their rights when they felt offended.


Notice how quickly Mr Professional jumps in to correct Miss Piggy's complete lack of regard for the law........

NOT.



As for The Chief's recently stated position on civil liberty,
either the deaprtment has had a complete reversal of their long-established, in-your-face disregard of civil rights


OR


there was a citizen with a video camera.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 26, 2014, 07:54:59 pm
either the department has had a complete reversal of their long-established, in-your-face disregard of civil rights


OR


The group hopes to gather the nearly 156,000 signatures required to get medical marijuana on the November ballot so voters can decide the issue.

Organizer Chip Paul tells KRMG the police have stopped bothering the petitioners, but (Oklahomans for Health) still wants to know why it happened at all.

They'd like to find out if officers took it upon themselves to try and run petitioners off, or if the orders came from higher up.

And, Paul says, the councilors need to know there's potential liability for the city if such harassment occurs in the future.


http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/medical-marijuana-backers-plan-address-tulsa-city-/ngSzK/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 02, 2014, 01:31:00 pm
It's interesting (but not surprising) that as the majority of states are either legalizing or moving closer to legalization of medical marijuana, the Oklahoma narcotics bureaucracy scrambles to build a barricade of new laws to fend off reform.
Here's one the governor recently signed into law:

http://legiscan.com/OK/text/HB2666/2014


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 02, 2014, 01:43:08 pm
It's interesting (but not surprising) that as the majority of states are either legalizing or moving closer to legalization of medical marijuana, the Oklahoma narcotics bureaucracy scrambles to build a barricade of new laws to fend off reform.
Here's one the governor recently signed into law:

http://legiscan.com/OK/text/HB2666/2014


If it's good for the people.  Popular.  Or likely to enhance our attractiveness to outside investment.  We, as a state will always vote against it.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on July 02, 2014, 02:04:49 pm

Salvia is now a Schedule I narcotic?    At some point wasn't that a houseplant?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 02, 2014, 03:39:27 pm
If it's good for the people.  Popular.  Or likely to enhance our attractiveness to outside investment.  We, as a state will always vote against it.

We didnt get to vote on this overly-broad, capricious nightmare.

As written, you could twist a piece of paper and put it on a table, and if someone thinks it looks like a joint...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on July 02, 2014, 03:42:16 pm
Salvia is now a Schedule I narcotic?    At some point wasn't that a houseplant?



(http://georgeweigel.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/salvia.maynight-300x225.jpg)

Heading home to trip balls.

Smell ya later


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 02, 2014, 04:22:38 pm
We didnt get to vote on this overly-broad, capricious nightmare.

As written, you could twist a piece of paper and put it on a table, and if someone thinks it looks like a joint...


"We" is the collective we - people at the ballot box and legislators down in OKC.  Across the board astounding how we vote against our own best interest so much of the time.  Most of the time....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 05, 2014, 10:18:11 am
Heading home to trip balls.

Smell ya later

You flower children be careful, now, meanwhile...



EL RENO, Oklahoma - Agents arrested two Florida men who they said were smuggling $250,000 worth of pot products.
"This marijuana that they're producing today is like nothing we've ever seen before," Mark Woodward with OBN said.

Woodward said every single item they seized from the suspects' car contains marijuana like brownies, fruit juice, olive oil, butter, jam and candies that look like brand name candy.
"It shows who these people are marketing this to, because you don't put gummy bears out here and target 55-year-old men with this stuff," said Woodward.



55-year-old men in Florida with cancer, maybe.  

After all, dried prunes are definitely appealing to kids...

http://www.news9.com/story/25939171/obn-makes-unique-marijuana-products-drug-bust
(http://localtvkfor.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/photo-2.jpg?w=500)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 05, 2014, 10:29:05 am
I take it Mark Woodward doesn't get out much.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 05, 2014, 07:04:32 pm
I take it Mark Woodward doesn't get out much.


Want to bet he can find his way to the property room when he has a good friend with cancer?

It's hard to tell if they are that out-of-touch with reality, or just paid to be:
"Agents pulled over Robert Shepard and Andrew Mason on Interstate 40 in El Reno on Wednesday for following too close.
They said both men were acting nervous, so they brought in a K9 named Xena. The three-year-old OBN pup sniffed out 50 pounds of products in the men's car."

Glad to hear the probable cause came from OBNDD's routine patrol of the highway, and not a tip from illegal NSA surveillance.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805

All that warrant-less eavesdropping just to protect us from terrorist pot gummybears?




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 06, 2014, 07:08:04 pm
Quote
Here's the Lawless Hellscape Colorado Has Become Six Months After Legalizing Weed

It's now been six months since Colorado enacted its historic marijuana legalization policy, and two big things have already happened:
1. Colorado's cash crop is turning out to be even more profitable than the state could have hoped.
2. Denver crime rates have suddenly fallen.

http://mic.com/articles/92449/six-months-after-legalizing-marijuana-two-big-things-have-happened-in-colorado
(http://media2.policymic.com/ab46c77d3db114c2ccddb25f239f8ccf.gif)

Quote
The Food and Drug Administration is conducting an analysis at the Drug Enforcement Administration’s request on whether the U.S. should downgrade the classification of marijuana as a Schedule 1 drug.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-20/drug-regulators-study-easing-u-s-marijuana-restrictions.html










Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 07, 2014, 08:59:21 am
I bet that is a fun graphic to watch while stoned.

Meanwhile, crime is falling in Colorado since weed became legal.  The exact opposite of what law enforcement and the prison cartel predicted.

http://rt.com/usa/colorado-crime-change-legalization-study-017/

My apologies if someone else beat me to this.  I think it’s compelling.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 07, 2014, 09:09:20 am
I bet that is a fun graphic to watch while stoned.

Meanwhile, crime is falling in Colorado since weed became legal.  The exact opposite of what law enforcement and the prison cartel predicted.

http://rt.com/usa/colorado-crime-change-legalization-study-017/

My apologies if someone else beat me to this.  I think it’s compelling.

although it might be plausible for it to go up...well, at least shoplifting of cool ranch and nacho cheese doritos would likely go up.

 8)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 07, 2014, 10:33:47 am
although it might be plausible for it to go up...well, at least shoplifting of cool ranch and nacho cheese doritos would likely go up.

 8)

Twinkies.  Gotta have...wait...what?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on July 07, 2014, 12:05:18 pm
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS A REFERENCE TO WORLD NET DAILY. FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, PLEASE USE PRECAUTIONS BEFORE READING IT. AN ALUMINUM FOIL HAT, SAFETY GLASSES, AND NYTRILE GLOVES ARE STRONGLY RECOMMENDED.

"Carson told Farah that he worried politicians like President Obama and Eric Holder are surreptitiously encouraging marijuana use in order to create a dumb citizenry. That way, doped-up Americans will be distracted by controversies like the name of the Washington Redskins instead of focusing on stories about Benghazi and Fast and Furious."

So there you have it. Marijuana is linked directly to Benghazi. Who knew that Obama could be so Machiavellian?

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-carson-thinks-politicians-are-promoting-pot-use-make-people-dumb-distract-benghazi (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-carson-thinks-politicians-are-promoting-pot-use-make-people-dumb-distract-benghazi)

(As an aside, perhaps Benghazi references should be a sub-set or corollary to Godwin's Law. Just sayin')


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 07, 2014, 01:13:48 pm
Meanwhile, crime is falling in Colorado since weed became legal.  The exact opposite of what law enforcement and the prison cartel predicted.

http://rt.com/usa/colorado-crime-change-legalization-study-017/




"Overall property crime fell by 14.6 percent in Denver. Homicide rates, while not leaving the single digits in either year, fell by 66.7 percent while the number of robberies decreased by seven percent."

...And we have to get this news from the Russians.
At lest our leaders are protecting us from epileptic babies smoking joints.



(http://i.imgur.com/kpmKSnA.png)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 07, 2014, 01:30:34 pm
(http://i544.photobucket.com/albums/hh347/gethigh4twenty/StonerBaby.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 09, 2014, 05:09:21 pm

Meanwhile, crime is falling in Colorado since weed became legal.  The exact opposite of what law enforcement and the prison cartel predicted.

So while Colorado was laying the groundwork to amp up its tax base, Oklahoma was laying the groundwork to keep it's prisons full:


New penalties for possession or making of hashish, a grinder, or brownies may include life imprisonment, were enacted in 2011.
Effective Oct. 1, 2013, a person will be jailed for no less than 30 days or more than 1 year if: A person as any amount of a Schedule I chemical or controlled substance, as defined in Section 2-204 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes, OR ONE OF ITS METABOLITES OR ANALOGS in the person’s blood, saliva, urine or any other bodily fluid at the time of a test of such person's blood, saliva, urine or any other bodily fluid administered within two (2) hours after the arrest of such person.  A second offense will have longer sentencing as well as require an ignition interlock device that can only detect alcohol even if person is not a user of alcohol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_U.S._state


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 09, 2014, 08:04:52 pm
Twinkies.  Gotta have...wait...what?


New Crest store in Norman...tonight...2 boxes of Hostess Cupcakes!!  Yum!!  Rationed at no more than 12 a day!    Er, uh.....1 per day!!  Yeah, that's it....that's the ticket....!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 12, 2014, 07:00:16 pm

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/11/only-scientist-researching-how-pot-can-help-veterans-ptsd-gets-axed-after-gop-pressure/

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/pot-ptsd-arizona-boots-researcher-seeking-cure-vets-n152881



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 13, 2014, 09:25:06 pm
Lots of lobbyist $$$ going towards misinformation campaigns to defeat drug reform....

Apparently, "authorities" lumping marijuana with other, more dangerous substances is a time-tested misinformation tactic that still works.
Look at the Lobbyist money being thrown around police associations in an effort to confuse pot with synthetic drugs, with phony phrases like "synthetic marijuana" and "fake pot:"

http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/08/drug-warriors-spend-money-training-cops
http://show-mecannabis.com/2014/06/law-enforcement-training-vs-political-propaganda-the-fine-line/
http://kwgn.com/2013/09/09/explainer-what-is-the-difference-between-synthetic-marijuana-and-natural-marijuana/



There's big grant money waiting for agencies that will give their officers the appropriate propaganda training on WOD talking points,
Here's one example of how that trickles down to the uninformed media:



Quote
http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/teen-warns-k2-dangers-new-law-could-stop-drug/ngcQ5/

TULSA, Okla. —  FOX23 has been telling you about the dangers of synthetic marijuana and how difficult it's been to make it illegal.
 
Now FOX23’s Janna Clark found out there may finally be a way for law enforcement to stop it.

The packages say it's incense, but FOX23 found out the state has documented that three people have died from smoking some kind of synthetic marijuana and hundreds have gone to the hospital.

Law enforcement hasn't been able to stop stores from selling it.

“The biggest problem is how easy these chemicals can be changed,” said Mark Woodward, with the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics.
 
He said OBN worked with lawmakers to ban specific chemicals in synthetic marijuana.

But the manufacturers tweaked the ingredients, which made the drugs legal again.
 
That happened over and over, and now the state's banned more than 200 chemicals.
 
“It's become a cat and mouse game,” said Woodward.

Until now, Woodward said the state just passed a new, different law.

The law bans nine categories of synthetic marijuana. Now chemists won't be looking for certain chemicals, but the structure of the compound of the chemicals. If the compound fits in one of the nine categories, it will be illegal to smoke it and sell it.

“All of these we believe are going to fit one of these nine categories,” said Woodward.

Woodward said Oklahoma mirrored its law after those in Arkansas and Illinois.

“They said it has been a silver bullet to stop the synthetic marijuana problem in their states,” said Woodward.

The irony is the laws that have tried to stop it have actually made the drug more dangerous.

The laws triggered amateur chemists to change the chemicals that they haphazardly spray on herbs.

“How dangerous are these synthetics?” asked Clark.

“They're deadly,” said Woodward.

When the law goes into effect in November, Woodward said OBN agents will aggressively investigate stores that sell synthetic marijuana.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 18, 2014, 09:46:09 pm

Heres a somewhat telling story about Oklahoma's drug bureaucracy...

Apparently there's a plant in the Coffee family that people have used for thousands of years to relieve pain -- and more recently to help avoid narcotics and even alcohol.

Apparently the only ones really harmed by this drug are the big pharmaceutical companies, but OBNDD has already tried to have it banned.  Currently, they are "monitoring" the news for another excuse to take a shot at it.

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/drug-agency-monitors-kratom-use-oklahoma/ngftf/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 27, 2014, 02:15:54 pm
I take it Mark Woodward doesn't get out much.

More "they're marketing it to our babies!" propaganda:

The Tulsa County Sheriff's Violent Crimes and Drug Task Force discovered all kinds of flavored marijuana in a recent bust, and much of it was in the form of gummy bears and sugar cubes. They say this is a wake-up call for parents that pot now comes in all shapes and sizes.

"Look at these. You open it up and it looks identical to gummy vitamins. If I were a kid, I'd eat them. The different flavors, that's tempting. They even smell good," said Investigator Leighton Boyd, Tulsa County Sheriff's Office.


Why yes, candy always comes in medicine bottles...
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/4313564_G.jpg)




Investigators say if a child ate a handful of these or more, they could overdose, get sick, even die. They say parents may not realize kids are doing drugs right in front of them.
http://www.newson6.com/story/26116365/colorado-pot-products-showing-up-in-tulsa-drug-busts

And again, how many people have died from overdoses of marijuana?

ever?

 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on July 27, 2014, 06:25:27 pm

And again, how many people have died from overdoses of marijuana?

ever?
 

Apparently two, but that was back when you could either smoke it or bake it.   Now that you can eat a joints worth in one gummy bear, we might get to see that chemistry can up that figure.

http://time.com/10372/marijuana-deaths-german-study/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 27, 2014, 07:13:05 pm
Repeal Prohibition, Again

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/high-time-marijuana-legalization.html


Quote
It took 13 years for the United States to come to its senses and end Prohibition, 13 years in which people kept drinking, otherwise law-abiding citizens became criminals and crime syndicates arose and flourished. It has been more than 40 years since Congress passed the current ban on marijuana, inflicting great harm on society just to prohibit a substance far less dangerous than alcohol.

The federal government should repeal the ban on marijuana.

We reached that conclusion after a great deal of discussion among the members of The Times’s Editorial Board, inspired by a rapidly growing movement among the states to reform marijuana laws.

There are no perfect answers to people’s legitimate concerns about marijuana use. But neither are there such answers about tobacco or alcohol, and we believe that on every level — health effects, the impact on society and law-and-order issues — the balance falls squarely on the side of national legalization. That will put decisions on whether to allow recreational or medicinal production and use where it belongs — at the state level.

We considered whether it would be best for Washington to hold back while the states continued experimenting with legalizing medicinal uses of marijuana, reducing penalties, or even simply legalizing all use. Nearly three-quarters of the states have done one of these.

But that would leave their citizens vulnerable to the whims of whoever happens to be in the White House and chooses to enforce or not enforce the federal law.

The social costs of the marijuana laws are vast. There were 658,000 arrests for marijuana possession in 2012, according to F.B.I. figures, compared with 256,000 for cocaine, heroin and their derivatives. Even worse, the result is racist, falling disproportionately on young black men, ruining their lives and creating new generations of career criminals.

There is honest debate among scientists about the health effects of marijuana, but we believe that the evidence is overwhelming that addiction and dependence are relatively minor problems, especially compared with alcohol and tobacco. Moderate use of marijuana does not appear to pose a risk for otherwise healthy adults. Claims that marijuana is a gateway to more dangerous drugs are as fanciful as the “Reefer Madness” images of murder, rape and suicide.

There are legitimate concerns about marijuana on the development of adolescent brains. For that reason, we advocate the prohibition of sales to people under 21.

Creating systems for regulating manufacture, sale and marketing will be complex. But those problems are solvable, and would have long been dealt with had we as a nation not clung to the decision to make marijuana production and use a federal crime.

In coming days, we will publish articles by members of the Editorial Board and supplementary material that will examine these questions. We invite readers to offer their ideas, and we will report back on their responses, pro and con.

We recognize that this Congress is as unlikely to take action on marijuana as it has been on other big issues. But it is long past time to repeal this version of Prohibition.



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/high-time-let-states-decide-on-marijuana.html





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 27, 2014, 07:23:16 pm
Apparently two, but that was back when you could either smoke it or bake it.   Now that you can eat a joints worth in one gummy bear, we might get to see that chemistry can up that figure.

http://time.com/10372/marijuana-deaths-german-study/


Quote
Researchers said, however, that the drug was to blame in two isolated cases of two seemingly health people, one 23 years old and another 28. Autopsies found that younger had a serious undetected heart problem, suggesting that people with cardiological issues should be aware of marijuana risks, and the older had a history of alcohol and drug use.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 27, 2014, 09:08:30 pm
Apparently two, but that was back when you could either smoke it or bake it.   Now that you can eat a joints worth in one gummy bear, we might get to see that chemistry can up that figure.

http://time.com/10372/marijuana-deaths-german-study/



A Rupert Murdoch publication.





Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on July 28, 2014, 05:28:02 am
Do a search for "marijuana oklahoma city" and you'll find a couple of news pieces on the rise of homelessness in Denver since their laws changed and another on how home owners associations can ban marijuana cultivation or use.

Gotta beat that drum.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on July 28, 2014, 07:44:03 am

Quote
Researchers said, however, that the drug was to blame in two isolated cases of two seemingly health people, one 23 years old and another 28. Autopsies found that younger had a serious undetected heart problem, suggesting that people with cardiological issues should be aware of marijuana risks, and the older had a history of alcohol and drug use.


I'm just saying that if you put a fat man on a treadmill and he has a heart attack, you blame the treadmill not the years of poor health choices.

Personally I think we should legalize it and tax the hell out of it.    We are going to need a new tax base soon to replace all the cigarette taxes that are going away.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 28, 2014, 08:49:36 am


I'm just saying that if you put a fat man on a treadmill and he has a heart attack, you blame the treadmill not the years of poor health choices.

Personally I think we should legalize it and tax the hell out of it.    We are going to need a new tax base soon to replace all the cigarette taxes that are going away.


Why are cigarette taxes going away??


The Fed will never outlaw "enhancing" cigarettes to increase addictiveness - it will cut into the tax base too much - so we will always have a lot of smoking addicts around....



Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on July 28, 2014, 09:13:23 am
In his documentary on Prohibition, Ken Burns said the federal government was funded by liquor taxes, and with Prohibition looming, income taxes had to be enacted as a substitute. People drank prodigious amounts of alcohol back then.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 28, 2014, 09:18:48 am

Why are cigarette taxes going away??


The Fed will never outlaw "enhancing" cigarettes to increase addictiveness - it will cut into the tax base too much - so we will always have a lot of smoking addicts around....



Fewer people partaking and the older smokers are dying off.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on July 28, 2014, 09:52:07 am
Fewer people partaking and the older smokers are dying off.

That's what I was thinking.   Their spending of millions to keep kids from smoking seems to be working.

It hasn't turned over yet, but I expect that to be just a matter of time.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=403


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 28, 2014, 10:25:56 am
That's what I was thinking.   Their spending of millions to keep kids from smoking seems to be working.

It hasn't turned over yet, but I expect that to be just a matter of time.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=403


I don’t know of any of my daughter’s friends who smoke.  I’m glad their generation doesn’t see any value in it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 28, 2014, 10:42:39 am
Do a search for "marijuana oklahoma city" and you'll find a couple of news pieces on the rise of homelessness in Denver since their laws changed and another on how home owners associations can ban marijuana cultivation or use.

The prohibitionists want to imply that legalization created homelessness, but the facts show that homeless from other states are emigrating to Colorado in search of the new jobs.  Its the gold rush all over again.

And the discredited German "marijuana deaths" study... They were spanked by their own peers for their sloppy conclusions.
“Cannabis does not paralyze the breathing or the heart," head of the German Association for Drugs and Addiction Jost Leune said. "Deaths due to cannabis use are usually accidents that are not caused by the substance, but to the circumstances of use.”


Has the magic plant finally claimed its first victim, several thousand years into its history with humans?
http://www.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2014/02/26/german-doctors-say-marijuana-can-kill-you
Drug cops are essentially quoting The Onion to prolong prohibition, people. And doctors are publishing findings that say, because we cannot find any reason why this person died, it must be the marijuana.

...which brings us to the absurd (yet meticulously rehearsed) statements like the ones earlier, spoon-fed to gullible reporters.

You would think the writing on the wall would be clear, and that people responsible for our tax dollars and the safety of the public would be thinking ahead to how they are going to operate in a post-prohibition world.


  





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 28, 2014, 11:03:00 am
That's what I was thinking.   Their spending of millions to keep kids from smoking seems to be working.

It hasn't turned over yet, but I expect that to be just a matter of time.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=403



Slowly decreasing - seems like we have 'plateaued'.....

There is an easy real fix, just like there is an easy real to the so-called immigration issue....

Two steps -
1  Federal law prohibiting enhancement of the addictive compounds over what naturally occurs in tobacco as grown.  This would let the vast majority of people who want to quit ABLE to do just that!!

2  Increase taxes some more...5% increase each year - this is a "frog in a pot slowly brought to a boil" solution, but the first can make a serious immediate impact.


There are simple, straightforward, cost-effective solutions to many of the big problems we face....there just aren't simple, straightforward ways to continue the power-grabs, graft, and corruption IF those solutions are implemented!!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 29, 2014, 09:44:32 pm

You would think the writing on the wall would be clear, and that people responsible for our tax dollars and the safety of the public would be thinking ahead to how they are going to operate in a post-prohibition world.




Quote
“We do not support medical marijuana, we have made it very clear,” said Woodward. Woodward believes groups have misinterpreted a Facebook post on the OBN page.
The post states “there are chemicals in pot (THC and CBD) that help people. We support medical uses of THC and CBD if used correctly.”

Woodward said CBD oil has shown promising results in helping kids with seizure disorders in other states and OBN is not opposed to legalizing in Oklahoma.

“We are optimistic that it could be done, if done correctly, if it is proven to be medicine, but like any drug we need to know what we are dealing with and we need to make sure it is not going to do more harm than good,” stated Woodward.

Woodward argues the current medical marijuana petition is too broad. He says smoking pot is not good for anyone.

Woodward said, “We are very much against it and no legitimate doctor is going to say that smoking something is the best delivery system for any medicine.”

Read more: http://www.koco.com/news/obn-we-do-not-support-medical-marijuana-petition/27196282


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on August 01, 2014, 09:17:02 pm
I thought that as cannabis is a Schedule 1 drug with no known medical use (per the DEA) research aimed at finding such medical use was prohibited or severely restricted. That sets us a Catch 22 situation. You can't find medical uses because you can't do research, therefore cannabis remains a Schedule 1 drug.

It's surprising how the OKCAP petition drive has been so well received throughout the state. Except in Tulsa. Advocates said that TPD officers were turning away potential petition signers yesterday, but the video provided didn't make that very clear.

In Owasso, someone called the PD complaining that people were selling marijuana out in front of Reasors. It was a card table on the sidewalk with hand lettered medical marijuana signs. Welcome to the 'burbs.

One side effect of this push has been the increase in voter registrations, since the OKCAP tables also offer the paperwork.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 03, 2014, 12:06:47 pm
Advertisement in the New York Times.

(http://h.fastcompany.net/multisite_files/fastcompany/inline/2014/08/3033929-inline-nyt-full-page-v7-fpo.jpg)



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 09, 2014, 10:04:58 pm
A bit of a sidebar here, but the initiative petition process may have already had a secondary impact -- registering new voters who are NOT likely to re-elect Gov. Fallin. 
If you recall, she was elected by a very small margin, which Im guessing would be a number roughly equal to the fringe element who only came out to vote when Fallin made defeating the "threat" of Sharia Law a big part of her platform.


The group is breaking records with the number of new voters getting registered.
 “We doubled the 12,000 that was the old record, we registered 24,000 new voters between May and June,” he said.
 FOX3 talked to the Tulsa County Election Board to get the number of new registered voters: 649 in May, 1,698 in June and a 2,448 in July.
 
Officials told FOX23 they expect the increase ahead of presidential elections, but think medical marijuana is the reason this year.
 “I think there’s a giant separation between what the people think about medical marijuana and what our government officials think about medical marijuana,” said Paul.

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/time-running-out-petition-medical-marijuana/ngyDZ/


If she intends to keep her for-profit prison donors happy with kids getting life sentences for pot brownies, she better start demanding more money.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/private-prisons-contribute-thousands-to-oklahoma-political-campaigns/article_f5ddca24-72e5-5c81-849b-031ac6c7c978.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 13, 2014, 09:09:13 am
Too little too late:


Gov. Mary Fallin announced she would ask lawmakers to talk with her, possibly as early as the next legislative session, to consider having a state representative prepare to lead a legislative study examining the possibility of allowing medical trials for the use of non-intoxicating CBD oils to children affected by severe seizures.

(insert appropriate pot-themed joke about holding breath)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on August 13, 2014, 03:09:43 pm
Fallin Supports Limited Use of Cannabis Oil

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/fallin-supports-limited-use-cannabis-oil-0 (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/fallin-supports-limited-use-cannabis-oil-0)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201407/FALLIN-GOO.JPG)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin says she supports the legalization of an oil derived from cannabis, but says she remains firmly opposed to legalizing all medical marijuana.

Fallin asked lawmakers Wednesday to support the legalization of cannabidiol, which is an oil derived from the marijuana plant. The oil can only be taken orally and is non-psychoactive. Research suggests it may be effective to treat toddlers with rare conditions that cause seizures and strokes.

The governor says cannabidiol could be "potentially life-saving" for some children. She says she supports a limited trial in which the product is made available to sick children.

Backers of a broader proposal to legalize medical marijuana have until Friday to submit signatures to qualify for the ballot. Fallin says she does not support that measure.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 13, 2014, 04:52:15 pm
Fallin Supports Limited Use of Cannabis Oil

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/fallin-supports-limited-use-cannabis-oil-0 (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/fallin-supports-limited-use-cannabis-oil-0)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201407/FALLIN-GOO.JPG)


I THOUGHT I saw some pigs in flight today!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 13, 2014, 07:04:20 pm
I THOUGHT I saw some pigs in flight today!

...and they were wearing lipstick.

Im betting the decriminalization momentum outpaces this delaying tactic (and her term in office).  Lets see.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on August 13, 2014, 07:18:31 pm
I THOUGHT I saw some pigs in flight today!

Were they in formation?
 :D



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 13, 2014, 09:43:24 pm
Were they in formation?
 :D




They only fly in line like B-52's doing low level runs....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 08:31:43 am
I thought it was interesting the initial sound bite and headline splurge she got: “Governor Fallin Supports Medical Marijuana” which is incredibly far from the truth.  She supports one extract medication from the hemp plant.  Big difference.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 14, 2014, 10:45:22 am
I thought it was interesting the initial sound bite and headline splurge she got: “Governor Fallin Supports Medical Marijuana” which is incredibly far from the truth.  She supports one extract medication from the hemp plant.  Big difference.


She's on the "bus" - dissemination, distortion, lies....




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 10:54:47 am

She's on the "bus" - dissemination, distortion, lies....




She’s a Murdochian, no doubt.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on August 14, 2014, 11:39:31 am
She’s a Murdochian, no doubt.

She was losing voter percentages.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 14, 2014, 12:04:44 pm
She was losing voter percentages.

This.  However, I wonder if she hasn't bled enough votes because of the handling of education and the like.

And her opponent isn't exactly a progressive.  But he's better than her, that's for sure.

Wonder what our resident Fallin-worshipper thinks of this?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 14, 2014, 12:50:51 pm
She was losing voter percentages.

What?  An Oklahoma governor loosing re-election because she was a dick about the state's #2 cash crop?


Hope.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 12:53:07 pm
This.  However, I wonder if she hasn't bled enough votes because of the handling of education and the like.

And her opponent isn't exactly a progressive.  But he's better than her, that's for sure.

Wonder what our resident Fallin-worshipper thinks of this?

He’s on the radio saying he was glad to see her jump on the bandwagon with legislation he authored or co-authored.  Though he referred to her as “Mary” and not “Governor” or “Governor Fallin”. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 14, 2014, 03:07:02 pm
He’s on the radio saying he was glad to see her jump on the bandwagon with legislation he authored or co-authored.  Though he referred to her as “Mary” and not “Governor” or “Governor Fallin”. 

I guess it's better than Governor Failin' or Mattress Mary.   ???


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 14, 2014, 05:38:03 pm
She was losing voter percentages.

That's going to happen when you represent your lobbyists and not the will of 70-80 percent of the electorate.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 14, 2014, 07:46:51 pm
What?  An Oklahoma governor loosing re-election because she was a dick about the state's #2 cash crop?


Hope.


Proof that in reality, she is anti-business.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 10:02:38 pm

Proof that in reality, she is anti-business.



That’ll never play with Uncle Kimchi.  You know he’s just got to have a poster of her over his bed...like on the ceiling.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 14, 2014, 10:16:38 pm
That’ll never play with Uncle Kimchi.  You know he’s just got to have a poster of her over his bed...like on the ceiling.
Thanks for that mental image.  :-\


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 15, 2014, 08:31:50 am
That’ll never play with Uncle Kimchi.  You know he’s just got to have a poster of her over his bed...like on the ceiling.


Taking the place of the center mirror tile...?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 15, 2014, 11:02:37 am
That’ll never play with Uncle Kimchi.


“I am personally not for legalizing marijuana in the state of Oklahoma.” Fallin said (last fall).
FOX23 asked Fallin again Thursday in Tulsa.
“Actually I never said whether I was for or against it. I haven’t changed my mind on anything. What I have said is that I am against legalizing marijuana and the petitions that are out there right now legalizing marijuana for any reason,” Fallin said.

“I would guess this has something to do with the fact that we’ve registered 40,000 new pro-marijuana voters,” Paul said.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 15, 2014, 11:06:51 am

“I am personally not for legalizing marijuana in the state of Oklahoma.” Fallin said (last fall).
FOX23 asked Fallin again Thursday in Tulsa.
“Actually I never said whether I was for or against it. I haven’t changed my mind on anything. What I have said is that I am against legalizing marijuana and the petitions that are out there right now legalizing marijuana for any reason,” Fallin said.

“I would guess this has something to do with the fact that we’ve registered 40,000 new pro-marijuana voters,” Paul said.


If they did really register that many, than Mary is probably doomed given that her opponent, Joe Dorman authored the bill currently being considered.  It's likely too little too late for her and I for one would not miss her.

One other thing I've noticed is that two years ago, being 'against Obamacare' was quite the calling-card on campaign ads..meaning emphasis was given to that particular phrase when pitching the sale.  Hers barely glosses over it in less than a second bundled up into other word salad.  Wonder why that is?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 15, 2014, 01:52:19 pm

One other thing I've noticed is that two years ago, being 'against Obamacare' was quite the calling-card on campaign ads..meaning emphasis was given to that particular phrase when pitching the sale.  Hers barely glosses over it in less than a second bundled up into other word salad.  Wonder why that is?


She is starting to understand the everyone who believed that nonsense is now starting to understand how badly "it's just one more thing she did to hurt Oklahoma".... let's hope there are enough voters go to the polls who have figured it out.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on August 15, 2014, 02:59:24 pm
Aww Dang! Looks like a no go on the ballot vote.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/medical-marijuana-supporters-say-they-don-t-have-enough-petition/article_21f6625b-122b-5d64-a65d-f9e597f70cbe.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 15, 2014, 04:21:04 pm
Aww Dang! Looks like a no go on the ballot vote.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/medical-marijuana-supporters-say-they-don-t-have-enough-petition/article_21f6625b-122b-5d64-a65d-f9e597f70cbe.html

That doesn't make it a non issue and doesn't mean something can't be done legislatively.  I know a family who has packed up and moved to Colorado because their daughter was having over 50 seizures a day and found that the CBD reduced that to about 1 every two days.  This is going to be a heated topic I think, and in fairly short order.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on August 15, 2014, 05:44:01 pm
That doesn't make it a non issue and doesn't mean something can't be done legislatively.  I know a family who has packed up and moved to Colorado because their daughter was having over 50 seizures a day and found that the CBD reduced that to about 1 every two days.  This is going to be a heated topic I think, and in fairly short order.

Sorry Hoss, I doubt it.  People will need to leave Oklahoma for decades to come.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 16, 2014, 07:10:24 am
Sorry Hoss, I doubt it.  People will need to leave Oklahoma for decades to come.


Why can't it be the Failin', Kern, Inhofe types who leave??



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 16, 2014, 09:55:23 am
That doesn't make it a non issue and doesn't mean something can't be done legislatively.  I know a family who has packed up and moved to Colorado because their daughter was having over 50 seizures a day and found that the CBD reduced that to about 1 every two days.  This is going to be a heated topic I think, and in fairly short order.

Sounds like CBD has a fighting chance, just not other forms with high amounts of THC.  Can’t have people in pain getting stoned, don’t ya know?  Better to hook them on more and more opiates as they destroy their internal organs and have to take higher dosages to attain the same relief over time.

I for one, am a person who does not respond as intended with opiates.  It does so little to contain pain for me, I simply elect to take analgesics post surgery or injury rather than do more damage to my body with that crap.  When I was having chronic back issues about 6 years ago, a little MJ at night was the only relief I could get.  When I dislocated my right shoulder a few weeks ago, the Dr. kept trying to push “low dose” narcotics on me for the pain on a follow-up visit the day after the incident happened.  I had to tell him thee times very emphatically that wasn’t going to happen. 

That is one thing no one is addressing:  I’ve never heard any evidence of people developing a tolerance to the effects of MJ like they do prescription narcotics or even street heroin.  It’s also amazing the amount of unfounded BS law enforcement and the private prison lobby spew about MJ.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 16, 2014, 10:14:48 pm

It’s also amazing the amount of unfounded BS law enforcement and the private prison lobby spew about MJ.



Apparently there is all sorts of grant money available to "officials" who push deceptive terms like "fake pot" to the media.
Since marijuana isnt sending kids to the ER, why not plant the association with something that is into the public's minds?

Next time you hear some idiot use the bogus term "Synthetic Marijuana," call them out.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 17, 2014, 08:42:59 am
Sounds like CBD has a fighting chance, just not other forms with high amounts of THC.  Can’t have people in pain getting stoned, don’t ya know?  Better to hook them on more and more opiates as they destroy their internal organs and have to take higher dosages to attain the same relief over time.

I for one, am a person who does not respond as intended with opiates.  It does so little to contain pain for me, I simply elect to take analgesics post surgery or injury rather than do more damage to my body with that crap.  When I was having chronic back issues about 6 years ago, a little MJ at night was the only relief I could get.  When I dislocated my right shoulder a few weeks ago, the Dr. kept trying to push “low dose” narcotics on me for the pain on a follow-up visit the day after the incident happened.  I had to tell him thee times very emphatically that wasn’t going to happen.  

That is one thing no one is addressing:  I’ve never heard any evidence of people developing a tolerance to the effects of MJ like they do prescription narcotics or even street heroin.  It’s also amazing the amount of unfounded BS law enforcement and the private prison lobby spew about MJ.


Be very careful here - you are treading into a maze of progressive thoughts and beliefs that may actually complete your transition from Republican to a rational thinker!!



Also, please note I did NOT say transition to Democrat....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on August 18, 2014, 07:00:05 pm

If I had ever seen anyone pushing the petition I would have signed it.   How many signatures short are they?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 18, 2014, 08:24:42 pm
No idea.  I signed it at the home brew store.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on August 21, 2014, 09:27:04 am
I guess I'm a old fud-dud I am against legal MJ. We don't need more people in public not thinking clearly or "mellowed out". We have enough problems with alcohol without adding drivers high on MJ to the streets. MJ can stay in your body for over 4 weeks after you last used it and can show up on a drug test. What effect will legal MJ have in the work place is also a serious question, Example:  some guy who gets high over the weekend is now at work Monday morning  driving a fork lift in a warehouse or operating heavy equipment -or  whatever,  do we really want that? Isn't alcohol enough? I do think the penalty for drug use is too stiff I will say that, it does not fit he crime. However Legal drugs no way, Once MJ is legal the camel has his nose under the tent for making other mind altering drugs  legal.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 21, 2014, 10:14:05 am
I guess I'm a old fud-dud I am against legal MJ. We don't need more people in public not thinking clearly or "mellowed out". We have enough problems with alcohol without adding drivers high on MJ to the streets. MJ can stay in your body for over 4 weeks after you last used it and can show up on a drug test. What effect will legal MJ have in the work place is also a serious question, Example:  some guy who gets high over the weekend is now at work Monday morning  driving a fork lift in a warehouse or operating heavy equipment -or  whatever,  do we really want that? Isn't alcohol enough? I do think the penalty for drug use is too stiff I will say that, it does not fit he crime. However Legal drugs no way, Once MJ is legal the camel has his nose under the tent for making other mind altering drugs  legal.

That’s the same lame logic on gay marriage.  “Now people will marry their dogs and horses!”

If one is to apply the “gateway drug” theory, then 3.2 beer should be outlawed in Oklahoma.  God only knows how many alcoholics started out taking a sip off their old man’s Falstaff or Schlitz.

Legalizing pot doesn’t make people more likely to use it than those who already do or will eventually use it.  It simply lifts the veil of lawlessness associated with it’s use and possession.  I used to use it, and if it were made legal, I would not use it for recreational purposes ever again.

If you are truly the fiscal conservative you claim to be, legalizing MJ is a smart move: we waste untold millions of taxpayer dollars on policing, prosecution, and imprisoning users.  People die due to underground trafficking which is necessary because of it’s illegality.  Secondly, if you bring it out of the dark like they have in Washington and Colorado, it can be taxed and regulated which raises revenue.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on August 21, 2014, 10:22:44 am
I guess I'm a old fud-dud I am against legal MJ. We don't need more people in public not thinking clearly or "mellowed out". We have enough problems with alcohol without adding drivers high on MJ to the streets. MJ can stay in your body for over 4 weeks after you last used it and can show up on a drug test. What effect will legal MJ have in the work place is also a serious question, Example:  some guy who gets high over the weekend is now at work Monday morning  driving a fork lift in a warehouse or operating heavy equipment -or  whatever,  do we really want that? Isn't alcohol enough? I do think the penalty for drug use is too stiff I will say that, it does not fit he crime. However Legal drugs no way, Once MJ is legal the camel has his nose under the tent for making other mind altering drugs  legal.

The only real danger posed by stoned drivers is them getting rear-ended on the highway.  And really, how much damage can somebody do going 25 MPH?

Seriously though, there are too many logic issues and false arguments raised in your post for reasonable discussion. 

Oh, and as somebody who's been the warehousing and distribution area my entire career, I can assure you that the number of Monday morning fork truck drivers with pot in their systems is already quite high.  (Pun intended...)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on August 21, 2014, 03:50:19 pm
I guess I'm a old fud-dud I am against legal MJ. We don't need more people in public not thinking clearly or "mellowed out". We have enough problems with alcohol without adding drivers high on MJ to the streets. MJ can stay in your body for over 4 weeks after you last used it and can show up on a drug test. What effect will legal MJ have in the work place is also a serious question, Example:  some guy who gets high over the weekend is now at work Monday morning  driving a fork lift in a warehouse or operating heavy equipment -or  whatever,  do we really want that? Isn't alcohol enough? I do think the penalty for drug use is too stiff I will say that, it does not fit he crime. However Legal drugs no way, Once MJ is legal the camel has his nose under the tent for making other mind altering drugs  legal.

Legalizing it does not mean that you have a right to use it.   Employers can and will still drug test and if you fail, you can/will be fired.   My brother works for a company that has to pass DOT checks.   It's real easy, if you want to work there you have random screenings that you have to pass.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on August 22, 2014, 09:45:30 am
Legalizing it does not mean that you have a right to use it.   Employers can and will still drug test and if you fail, you can/will be fired.   My brother works for a company that has to pass DOT checks.   It's real easy, if you want to work there you have random screenings that you have to pass.
But use will increase and it says in your system for over 4 weeks after it was last used. How about inbetween the random drug screens?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on August 22, 2014, 09:48:50 am
The only real danger posed by stoned drivers is them getting rear-ended on the highway.  And really, how much damage can somebody do going 25 MPH?

Seriously though, there are too many logic issues and false arguments raised in your post for reasonable discussion. 

Oh, and as somebody who's been the warehousing and distribution area my entire career, I can assure you that the number of Monday morning fork truck drivers with pot in their systems is already quite high.  (Pun intended...)
Not to mention kids in school zones and cross walks, getting hit by a car doing 25 mph can kill ya and with a brain zoned out who knows what will happen, and that's on top of all the alcohol drivers, car insurance rates will likely go if MJ is made legal too. Drivers have to have a clear brain and give 100% attention to driving something that can't be done with a foggy brain on drugs.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on August 22, 2014, 10:09:15 am
Not to mention kids in school zones and cross walks, getting hit by a car doing 25 mph can kill ya and with a brain zoned out who knows what will happen, and that's on top of all the alcohol drivers, car insurance rates will likely go if MJ is made legal too. Drivers have to have a clear brain and give 100% attention to driving something that can't be done with a foggy brain on drugs.

Dude, seriously...   Soooo  many logic flaws and false assumptions...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 22, 2014, 10:31:18 am
Not to mention kids in school zones and cross walks, getting hit by a car doing 25 mph can kill ya and with a brain zoned out who knows what will happen, and that's on top of all the alcohol drivers, car insurance rates will likely go if MJ is made legal too. Drivers have to have a clear brain and give 100% attention to driving something that can't be done with a foggy brain on drugs.


You really haven't learned anything new since 1936 have you?  (Two full years before the country FINALLY outlawed child labor.)



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on August 22, 2014, 12:31:19 pm
Dude, seriously...   Soooo  many logic flaws and false assumptions...
The whole reson for making MJ legal is to alter your brain without being charged with a crime, it's a brain altering drug- otherwise no one would be using MJ. The idea is to get high and  that's what MJ is all about --and it stays in your system for over 4 weeks after you last use it. I think there's a song in that too. :)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 22, 2014, 12:34:58 pm
The whole reson for making MJ legal is to alter your brain without being charged with a crime, it's a brain altering drug- otherwise no one would be using MJ. The idea is to get high and  that's what MJ is all about --and it stays in your system for over 4 weeks after you last use it. I think there's a song in that too. :)

Alcohol does short term and permanent impairment to the brain, ergo a brain-altering drug.  Yet, it’s perfectly legal.  The “four week” residual you keep referring to is not a residual high.  You can smoke a joint at night, wake up the next morning and no ill after effects.  How productive and alert do you think people are with a bad hangover from getting drunk the night before?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 22, 2014, 12:41:44 pm
Alcohol does short term and permanent impairment to the brain, ergo a brain-altering drug.  Yet, it’s perfectly legal.  The “four week” residual you keep referring to is not a residual high.  You can smoke a joint at night, wake up the next morning and no ill after effects.  How productive and alert do you think people are with a bad hangover from getting drunk the night before?

Like beating your head against a wall, isn't it?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 22, 2014, 12:42:56 pm
Like beating your head against a wall, isn't it?


All ya can do is run with it and try to have a little fun along the way....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 25, 2014, 09:28:08 am
I'll make another case against the legalization of MJ- Turns out driver Kevin Ward who was killed on the race track after getting out of his car used MJ, it altered his brains thinking pattern- the #1 rule in racing is you never get out of your car, but when have MJ in your body you do crazy things and that cost him his life, with MJ in his system Kevin Ward got out of his car.. The same things will happen on our city streets if we make MJ legal-  drivers doing crazy things while driving with legal MJ in their system. I understand the car accident rate in Colorado already increased since MJ became legal there. Why do people feel the need to live life in some altered brain state anyhow? Isn't alcohol enough of a buzz? There is no clear answer of what will happen in the workplace with legal MJ, fork lift drivers who used MJ over the weekend, machine operators and the like. Employer Drug testing can pick up MJ in the body  4 weeks or more after it was last used.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 25, 2014, 09:34:55 am
I'll make another case against the legalization of MJ- Turns out driver Kevin Ward who was killed on the race track after getting out of his car used MJ, it altered his brains thinking pattern- the #1 rule in racing is you never get out of your car, but when have MJ in your body you do crazy things and that cost him his life, with MJ in his system Kevin Ward got out of his car.. The same things will happen on our city streets if we make MJ legal-  drivers doing crazy things while driving with legal MJ in their system. I understand the car accident rate in Colorado already increased since MJ became legal there. Why do people feel the need to live life in some altered brain state anyhow? Isn't alcohol enough of a buzz? There is no clear answer of what will happen in the workplace with legal MJ, fork lift drivers who used MJ over the weekend, machine operators and the like. Employer Drug testing can pick up MJ in the body  4 weeks or more after it was last used.

But the cases you make always sound so damned mentally stunted it's as if you are a major burner yourself. 

How can you be against it when you seem to love it so much?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 25, 2014, 10:08:43 am
Actually, no, the accident rate has not been linked to pot use since metabolites of pot stay in the system for weeks, though the user is not “under the influence” after several hours.

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/15/6152309/Colorado-marijuana-DUI-car-accidents-crashes

Colorado’s rate of fatal accidents is actually down by record numbers comparing July 2014 all the way back to July 2002.

(http://img.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2014/08/COTotalDeaths.jpg)

(http://img.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2014/08/CoTrafficDeaths.jpg)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/08/05/since-marijuana-legalization-highway-fatalities-in-colorado-are-at-near-historic-lows/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 25, 2014, 11:10:40 am
I'll make another case against the legalization of MJ- Turns out driver Kevin Ward who was killed on the race track after getting out of his car used MJ, it altered his brains thinking pattern- the #1 rule in racing is you never get out of your car, but when have MJ in your body you do crazy things and that cost him his life, with MJ in his system Kevin Ward got out of his car.. The same things will happen on our city streets if we make MJ legal-  drivers doing crazy things while driving with legal MJ in their system. I understand the car accident rate in Colorado already increased since MJ became legal there. Why do people feel the need to live life in some altered brain state anyhow? Isn't alcohol enough of a buzz? There is no clear answer of what will happen in the workplace with legal MJ, fork lift drivers who used MJ over the weekend, machine operators and the like. Employer Drug testing can pick up MJ in the body  4 weeks or more after it was last used.


Obviously could not have been that much of an effect, else he would have been chill enough to sit there rather than getting all "Mr. Macho" and get out on the track to try to confront Stewart.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 25, 2014, 01:59:47 pm
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25770838/more-colorado-drivers-fatal-crashes-postive-pot-study   >>> This is not rocket science if you take any substance that alters your brain & thinking patterns and drive a car under that substance it's not going to make ya a safer driver. With more people using pot and driving guess what? :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 25, 2014, 02:01:30 pm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140515173507.htm


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 25, 2014, 02:22:40 pm
the accident rate has not been linked to pot use since metabolites of pot stay in the system for weeks, though the user is not “under the influence” after several hours.

...but you are trying to make that point with someone who believes they are trying to legalize DUI.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 25, 2014, 03:44:31 pm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140515173507.htm


Really??  Total-and-complete-lack-of-ScienceDaily...???



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 25, 2014, 03:46:32 pm
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25770838/more-colorado-drivers-fatal-crashes-postive-pot-study   >>> This is not rocket science if you take any substance that alters your brain & thinking patterns and drive a car under that substance it's not going to make ya a safer driver. With more people using pot and driving guess what? :D


Irrelevant.  Since the other 49 don't test for mj impairment at the time of an accident, even 1 would mean an increase.  Get some really numbers....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 28, 2014, 02:14:20 pm
...but you are trying to make that point with someone who believes they are trying to legalize DUI.
No, it's the result of what will happen if MJ is made legal. We will not only have MJ users on our highways but also all the illegal drugs on top of that plus alcohol. Making MJ legal will increase the number of people who use it and make our roadways more dangerous. Car insureance rates would likely climb too.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 29, 2014, 12:12:48 pm
No, it's the result of what will happen if MJ is made legal. We will not only have MJ users on our highways but also all the illegal drugs on top of that plus alcohol. Making MJ legal will increase the number of people who use it and make our roadways more dangerous. Car insureance rates would likely climb too.


And once again your "Failin' Stupid Carp" comes through - wouldn't it be refreshing if just once, you would do a little bit of investigation and find out the reality before spewing...??    Just ONCE!!  Is that too much to ask??

Usage rates have been shown for many years to NOT go up when decriminalized/legalized.  Either in this country or internationally.  It's a non-event.  Nothing changes.  (Using short sentences and simple words so you at least have a chance of understanding...)


http://norml.org/aboutmarijuana/item/marijuana-decriminalization-its-impact-on-use-2



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on September 29, 2014, 12:59:28 pm
Usage rates have been shown for many years to NOT go up when decriminalized/legalized.  Either in this country or internationally.  It's a non-event.  Nothing changes. 

I don't believe that. While the number of heavy users may not change, I would bet that more people would try it at least one time if it were legal. I have no basis for this other than a friend in Colorado who is my age and tried a marijuana cookie for the first time. She said her friend threw a party and most of the girls said they had never tried it before.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 29, 2014, 01:08:30 pm

And once again your "Failin' Stupid Carp" comes through - wouldn't it be refreshing if just once, you would do a little bit of investigation and find out the reality before spewing...??    Just ONCE!!  Is that too much to ask??

Usage rates have been shown for many years to NOT go up when decriminalized/legalized.  Either in this country or internationally.  It's a non-event.  Nothing changes.  (Using short sentences and simple words so you at least have a chance of understanding...)


http://norml.org/aboutmarijuana/item/marijuana-decriminalization-its-impact-on-use-2


Sure, Look at who put out that link- it's done by a pro-MJ group. The link also uses the words "no substantial increase" so even they admit there will be some increase in MJ use but it won't be substantial, and what they define as being "substantial" is anybodys guess. When alcohol became legal again  in the 1930's there was an increase in it's use, even though people used alcohol while it was illegal, it stands to reason MJ would be the same way. None the less your going to have people driving cars with altered brains from MJ use or driving a fork lift at work  mellowed out from MJ - thinking he's  even a better  fork lift driver because he's so mellow.  MJ's only real use is to alter your brain, that's the only reason people use it. If MJ had no effect no one would use it. You need to post links that are non-bias that tells it like it is.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 29, 2014, 01:11:59 pm
I don't believe that. While the number of heavy users may not change, I would bet that more people would try it at least one time if it were legal. I have no basis for this other than a friend in Colorado who is my age and tried a marijuana cookie for the first time. She said her friend threw a party and most of the girls said they had never tried it before.
Yep and there is likely more of that going on behind the scenes that never gets reported.  Nope- I don't favor legal MJ in Oklahoma.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on September 29, 2014, 01:13:02 pm
Sure, Look at who put out that link- it's done by a pro-MJ group. The link also uses the words "no substantial increase" so even they admit there will be some increase in MJ use but it won't be substantial, and what they define as being "substantial" is anybodys guess. When alcohol became legal again  in the 1930's there was an increase in it's use, even though people used alcohol while it was illegal, it stands to reason MJ would be the same way. None the less your going to have people driving cars with altered brains from MJ use or driving a fork lift at work  mellowed out from MJ - thinking he's  even a better  fork lift driver because he's so mellow.  MJ's only real use is to alter your brain, that's the only reason people use it. If MJ had no effect no one would use it.

You do realize that you could replace every instance of MJ in your sentence with 'alcohol', right?  Except that MJ is actually a plant that is grown in the ground.  Naturally.  Without distillation.  Also, I've not heard of one instance of someone dying of 'MJ poisoning'.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 29, 2014, 01:18:41 pm
You do realize that you could replace every instance of MJ in your sentence with 'alcohol', right?  Except that MJ is actually a plant that is grown in the ground.  Naturally.  Without distillation.
Well with legal MJ you'll have both  kinds of drivers on the road,  (MJ and drivers and  alcohol drivers) one substance won't be replacing the other- so we'll have drivers that use two different substances while driving or on the job. There is a difference too MJ stays in your system up to 4-5 weeks alcohol does not. The effect MJ has on the body when it's still in your system for 4-5 weeks is not fully known, but I doubt it's anything that's good.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on September 29, 2014, 01:22:21 pm
Well with legal MJ you'll have both  kinds of drivers on the road,  (MJ and drivers and  alcohol drivers) one substance won't be replacing the other- so we'll have drivers that use two different substances while driving or on the job. There is a difference too MJ stays in your system up to 4-5 weeks alcohol does not. The effect MJ has on the body when it's still in your system for 4-5 weeks is not fully known, but I doubt it's anything that's good.

So you're saying you haven't done any research.  Wow, color me surprised.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 29, 2014, 01:24:57 pm
Well with legal MJ you'll have both  kinds of drivers on the road,  (MJ and drivers and  alcohol drivers) one substance won't be replacing the other- so we'll have drivers that use two different substances while driving or on the job. There is a difference too MJ stays in your system up to 4-5 weeks alcohol does not. The effect MJ has on the body when it's still in your system for 4-5 weeks is not fully known, but I doubt it's anything that's good.

Driving under the influence would still be just as illegal as it is now.  Why would there be an uptick just by making it legal?  I look at it this way: if MJ were legal, perhaps people who have been abusing prescription pain killers might turn to MJ instead.  Prescription painkillers are perfectly legal but very lethal in the wrong hands.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 29, 2014, 01:28:23 pm
Sure, Look at who put out that link- it's done by a pro-MJ group. The link also uses the words "no substantial increase" so even they admit there will be some increase in MJ use but it won't be substantial, and what they define as being "substantial" is anybodys guess. When alcohol became legal again  in the 1930's there was an increase in it's use, even though people used alcohol while it was illegal, it stands to reason MJ would be the same way. None the less your going to have people driving cars with altered brains from MJ use or driving a fork lift at work  mellowed out from MJ - thinking he's  even a better  fork lift driver because he's so mellow.  MJ's only real use is to alter your brain, that's the only reason people use it. If MJ had no effect no one would use it.


Quoting people like;

National Academy of Science
Contemporary Drug Problems  (yeah, I know - says Federal on it so kiss of death to you...reality for everyone else.)
Bureau of Tobacco Control and Biometrics, Health and Welfare  (blame Canada!!)
California State Office of Narcotics and Drug Abuse
British Journal of Psychiatry
Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport  (where freedom and liberty actually began...)
Australian Journal of Public Health

If you are concerned about the definition of the word 'substantial', then look it up.  And read some of those papers to see what THEY define as 'substantial'.

As for alcohol, the usage dropped according to 'studies' (referenced here if you really want to know what you are talking about...so, I bet you won't look at any of them), mostly due to lower cirrhosis rates by about 10 - 20%.  One was confused....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_during_and_after_prohibition


But YOU know better than all those high-falutin' intellectuals, don't ya...?


For the VAST majority - beyond any "first time" novelty use, alcohol AND marijuana - of people who use are gonna keep using.  And the ones that don't, won't.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 29, 2014, 01:31:00 pm

If MJ had no effect no one would use it. You need to post links that are non-bias that tells it like it is.



Again, READ!!  Or are you a high school graduate??


Sounds like there may be some alcohol use in play even as we speak....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 29, 2014, 01:32:53 pm
Well with legal MJ you'll have both  kinds of drivers on the road,  (MJ and drivers and  alcohol drivers) one substance won't be replacing the other- so we'll have drivers that use two different substances while driving or on the job. There is a difference too MJ stays in your system up to 4-5 weeks alcohol does not. The effect MJ has on the body when it's still in your system for 4-5 weeks is not fully known, but I doubt it's anything that's good.


And having done NO research, study or even thought hard about the subject, how could YOU possibly know?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on October 07, 2014, 12:31:49 pm
In the news right now MJ causes Schizophrenia, with teen use the risk is higher. This is not rocket science stuff MJ is bad and we don't need legal MJ with thousands MORE people in public on our streets stoned out of their gourd. >>>>  http://www.futurity.org/teen-marijuana-abuse/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on October 07, 2014, 12:44:00 pm

And having done NO research, study or even thought hard about the subject, how could YOU possibly know?


Research? This is not rocket Science, MJ alters your brain that's why people use it-- and it now turns out it can cause schizophrenia & Mental illness.  Bottom line: Do we in  Oklahoma want thousands of Schizophrenia people on our streets and  driving cars by making MJ legal?  We already have enough wacked out people around... Talk about research- I did research on global warming and found that to be a total hoax, many people who  believe in global warming with never check it out for themselves, they just drink the kool-aid. Oops excuse me it's now "Climate Change".


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 07, 2014, 01:20:27 pm
In the news right now MJ causes Schizophrenia, with teen use the risk is higher. This is not rocket science stuff MJ is bad and we don't need legal MJ with thousands MORE people in public on our streets stoned out of their gourd. >>>>  http://www.futurity.org/teen-marijuana-abuse/


Nothing new here.  Same old stuff that has been around forever.  Also, for tobacco as well as alcohol.  That is why, even when things are legal, they are still prohibited for kids.

Still haven't given a rational thought - maybe teen tobacco/alcohol use explains some things here...??



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 07, 2014, 01:50:25 pm
Research? This is not rocket Science, MJ alters your brain that's why people use it-- and it now turns out it can cause schizophrenia & Mental illness.  Bottom line: Do we in  Oklahoma want thousands of Schizophrenia people on our streets and  driving cars by making MJ legal?  We already have enough wacked out people around... Talk about research- I did research on global warming and found that to be a total hoax, many people who  believe in global warming with never check it out for themselves, they just drink the kool-aid. Oops excuse me it's now "Climate Change".


And as always, you prove once again, you know nothing about the topic.  There have ALWAYS been people roaming around with MJ wandering through their system to varying degrees.  And the degree of that participation doesn't change in any detectable fashion after legalization.  And the adverse societal effects have been shown to be nil - if nothing else, just by the lack of a body count.  Unlike alcohol AND tobacco - very noticeable body counts! 


You researched nothing on global warming - the studies are on global climate change.  And you didn't research any further than Jim Inhofe, Rush Limbaugh, and Matt Drudge - and even though they are all top noted climate scientists, they are on the wrong side of the facts.  Because climate change has actually been found to be real...wouldn't expect you to understand.  It has been shown to be affected by human activity.  This is the reality.

The only open questions relate to what effects it's gonna have on us, and just the most casual curiosity of what initiated the process this time around.  And that is not likely to be a cut and dried answer and really doesn't matter anyway, since we live in an analog continuum where everything is changing all the time.  We have been warmer and we have been colder.  The current CO2 levels are the only new thing that has entered into the equation - and we all know where that comes from!








   




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 14, 2014, 10:02:09 am
Denver police are worried people will give out their expensive cannabis candy to Trick-or-Treaters:

http://www.ladybud.com/2014/10/14/denver-police-watch-out-for-medicated-halloween-candy/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 20, 2014, 08:30:51 am
I saw one of those things running around the internet that did a great job of explaining the difference between drunks and stoners....and why there is less worry about the stoners....


Drunk people run stop signs!

High people wait for them to turn green...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on October 23, 2014, 01:05:02 pm
BTW That Brown guy in Missouri who was shot by the cop, yep, the autopsy results came in and  his body was loaded with THC- it likely  affected his thinking when he knocked over the store and attacked the cop. He was using that stuff-- can you blame MJ 100% for  what Brown did?  maybe not, but it played a part it affects your noodle your  thinking, reasoning and logic. Without it in his system he may of responded better to the cops request and not of grabbed the cops gun. I'm just sayin'.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 23, 2014, 04:07:07 pm
BTW That Brown guy in Missouri who was shot by the cop, yep, the autopsy results came in and  his body was loaded with THC- it likely  affected his thinking when he knocked over the store and attacked the cop. He was using that stuff-- can you blame MJ 100% for  what Brown did?  maybe not, but it played a part it affects your noodle your  thinking, reasoning and logic. Without it in his system he may of responded better to the cops request and not of grabbed the cops gun. I'm just sayin'.


Again, you try to conflate the effects of alcohol and marijuana.  The amount in his bloodstream would have been very small....if he was stoned, he would have mellowed out and not done the convenience store, or resisted the cop, if that is what happened - not saying it is...still don't have the whole story.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on November 03, 2014, 01:56:16 pm

Again, you try to conflate the effects of alcohol and marijuana.  The amount in his bloodstream would have been very small....if he was stoned, he would have mellowed out and not done the convenience store, or resisted the cop, if that is what happened - not saying it is...still don't have the whole story.


It should be remembed that the MJ of today is much more stronger than of past eras. It's effect is harder hitting to. No one who favors making MJ legal mentions that, they like to pretend it's  the same  MJ  of bygone eras, when it's much more potant.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on November 03, 2014, 01:58:17 pm
Some states are voting on making MJ legal I think FL is one of those states. It'll be intresting to see how the vote turns out. I think we have enough people with altered brains in public using  alcohol, we don't need to add MJ to that list.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 03, 2014, 02:21:16 pm
Some states are voting on making MJclueless al I think FL is one of those states. It'll be intresting to see how the vote turns out. I think we have enough people with altered brains in public using  alcohol, we don't need to add MJ to that list.

I think you need to read up on what states are voting for recreational use opposed to Florida where the vote is for Medical Marijuana.

But I keep forgeting that you are just am old school voter that checks the box to vote for the party and then are clueless as to what anything else is about.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 03, 2014, 03:10:41 pm
Some states are voting on making MJ legal I think FL is one of those states. It'll be intresting to see how the vote turns out. I think we have enough people with altered brains in public using  alcohol, we don't need to add MJ to that list.

(http://www.loveatfirstpage.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/3sdm8n.jpg)


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on November 03, 2014, 03:38:47 pm
I agree.  We certainly have enough people with altered brains.

Ed W


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 03, 2014, 04:09:19 pm
It should be remembed that the MJ of today is much more stronger than of past eras. It's effect is harder hitting to. No one who favors making MJ legal mentions that, they like to pretend it's  the same  MJ  of bygone eras, when it's much more potant.


Ahhh...that's true...so the effect will be multiplied, leading to even greater waits at stop signs!  Slowing of traffic must be prevented at all costs.....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on November 03, 2014, 04:56:26 pm

But I keep forgeting that you are just am old school voter that checks the box to vote for the party and then are clueless as to what anything else is about.

you have to vote to do that


Title: Re:
Post by: Red Arrow on November 03, 2014, 06:11:01 pm
I agree.  We certainly have enough people with altered brains.

Ed W

In some cases, it's an improvement.
 
 ;D



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on November 03, 2014, 08:25:16 pm
And if you smoke enough weed, your eyes can do this permanently. It's science.

(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/551358.gif)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 03, 2014, 08:31:13 pm
And if you smoke enough weed, your eyes can do this permanently. It's science.

(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/551358.gif)

It also makes you a great piano player.....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKID2LRzIdY[/youtube]



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 05, 2014, 01:58:23 pm
DENVER (AP) — Oregon, Alaska and Washington, D.C., voted to legalize recreational marijuana Tuesday. The drug is already legal for people 21 and older in Colorado and Washington, thanks to ballot measures voted on in 2012.

It was a whole new frontier for those states, so here are some hints from the legal weed states on what the new places can expect:

UNCLE SAM IS (MOSTLY) LOOKING THE OTHER WAY

Some expected a federal lawsuit when Washington and Colorado flouted federal drug law, which considers pot illegal for any purpose. But last summer, the U.S. Justice Department said it wouldn’t interfere with state marijuana laws as long as the states tightly regulate the drug and make efforts to keep it from children, criminal drug cartels and other states. There have since been isolated federal raids on pot businesses in Colorado, but no widespread federal crackdown on the industry in either state.

LEGAL POT BRINGS IN SOME GREEN

Pro-marijuana advocates predicted that legal weed would be a huge windfall for Washington and Colorado. Marijuana opponents predicted the drug would prove a drain on state finances because of higher law enforcement costs. Both sides were wrong. Colorado is on track to bring in some $84 million this year from medical and recreational pot taxes and fees. Washington by some estimates will it bring in more than $50 million between 2015 and 2017. That’s not chump change, but in the mix of multibillion-dollar state budgets, legal pot isn’t exactly a game-changer.

LEGALIZATION MEANS NEW THINGS BECOME ILLEGAL

Washington and Colorado both had to create a raft of new crimes when pot became legal. That’s because when weed was illegal for all, there was no such thing as, say, the crime of providing weed to someone under 21. The new legal weed states will need hundreds of pages of new ordinances governing how and where marijuana can be produced, sold and consumed.

MORE DRIVERS MAY TEST POSITIVE FOR WEED

Colorado and Washington both have seen an uptick in drivers testing positive for marijuana. But traffic fatalities in both states are down. Marijuana proponents and opponents argue about whether the increase is a result of more testing, or whether more folks are driving high. There’s still no widely available roadside pot test similar to an alcohol breath test, though saliva tests are in development. Convictions for driving stoned in Colorado and Washington for now rely on blood tests.

NOT CLEAR WHETHER OVERALL POT USE GOES UP

Though it’s been two years since Colorado and Washington legalized weed, it’s too soon to say whether more people are using it. That’s because drug use is gauged by survey responses, so changes take time to show up in public health metrics. All eyes will be on 2015’s “Monitoring The Future” survey, a federal youth assessment of risky behaviors. Next year’s is the first post-legalization survey to include state-specific data. Both states have increased marijuana-related admissions to hospitals and substance abuse treatment facilities, but marijuana remains a small fraction of admissions.

PEOPLE STILL DRINK

Some wondered whether widely available pot would have people replacing cocktails with joints. But according to alcohol-tax receipts in both states, legal weed appears to have little impact on how much alcohol people drink.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 11, 2014, 07:39:00 pm
Oklahoma's cannabis debate: Battling confusion
A special report on the 10-year-old Oklahoma girl who's inspiring one lawmaker to go way outside his comfort zone--- to push for the legalization of medical cannabis.

http://www.fox23.com/videos/news/oklahomas-cannabis-debate-battling-confusion/vC2M4f/








Meanwhile, Curbing New York City's Low-Level Marijuana Arrests is really only window dressing.

Quote
“This new policy will reduce unnecessary arrests for minor marijuana possession and put an end to an era where many of young New Yorkers were being arrested and saddled with criminal records for minor violations,” Mayor de Blasio said in a statement. De Blasio said the change would direct police resources “towards more serious crime” and not waste “officer time processing unnecessary arrests.”

New York City has been called the marijuana arrest capital of the world, even though New York state technically decriminalized possessing less than 25 grams of the drug in 1977. Currently, someone caught passing a joint to a friend is considered a drug dealer.

The decriminalization law was intended to affect people carrying small amounts in a pocket or backpack, for example. Since the 1990s however, NYPD officers have routinely compelled black and Latino New Yorkers during stop-and-frisk encounters to empty their pockets. When marijuana comes into “public view,” the person can be charged with a misdemeanor.
"Real reform requires an end to unlawful searches, since they are a main driver of unlawful marijuana arrests."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/10/new-york-city-marijuana-arrests_n_6136686.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 11, 2014, 08:54:54 pm
Oklahoma's cannabis debate: Battling confusion
A special report on the 10-year-old Oklahoma girl who's inspiring one lawmaker to go way outside his comfort zone--- to push for the legalization of medical cannabis.


Meanwhile, Curbing New York City's Low-Level Marijuana Arrests is really only window dressing.




Amazing hypocrisy from that guy!  Truly breath-taking!

So NOW....that it affects HIM directly....THEN all of a sudden, he is a convert.... It's HIS niece now!  Well, she could just go to Colorado like everyone else has to.  But it would then mean HIS family has to deal with the associated hardships!  And that would be wrong....they are really THAT much more special than everyone else!   I bet he has been against even doing research on the topic until right now!!

He is trying to pick out one little piece of it for his niece - as evidenced by saying "that larger debate needs to wait" - the debate on compounds with higher levels of THC.  It's important to do this now for his niece!

That is the prevalent and most pervasive "sense of entitlement" in this country - NOT people on Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid!!  And we just keep on electing them...over and over and over.



His info....
http://www.okhouse.gov/district.aspx?District=90


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 13, 2014, 05:42:42 pm
I just saw something in another area of the matrix that now has me very concerned and rethinking my support of the whole marijuana issue.  It was a warning to Santa to NOT eat the cookies or brownies in Colorado or Washington!  This could have major catastrophic consequences - depending on his travel path, he might not make it here!!  This could be terrible!!  What have we wrought upon our world??



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 13, 2014, 06:10:51 pm
I just saw something in another area of the matrix that now has me very concerned and rethinking my support of the whole marijuana issue.  It was a warning to Santa to NOT eat the cookies or brownies in Colorado or Washington!  This could have major catastrophic consequences - depending on his travel path, he might not make it here!!  This could be terrible!!  What have we wrought upon our world??

Was it the same people that used their grant money to warn frightened parents that medical marijuana users would be giving out all their expensive edible candy to trick-or-treaters?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/01/halloween-marijuana-fears/18339489/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 13, 2014, 10:18:15 pm
Was it the same people that used their grant money to warn frightened parents that medical marijuana users would be giving out all their expensive edible candy to trick-or-treaters?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/01/halloween-marijuana-fears/18339489/



Naw...this was one of the elves giving Santa a "heads up"....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 14, 2014, 01:10:56 pm
Naw...this was one of the elves giving Santa a "heads up"....

Faces of Cannabis

http://faceofcannabis.wordpress.com

Its not what you think.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 15, 2014, 02:15:43 pm
Oklahoma native revolutionizing medical marijuana
http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/oklahoma-native-revolutionizing-medical-marijuana/nh7ZG/

“Yes, you need to make sure this doesn't get into the hands of criminal organizations. Yes, you need to make sure that this product doesn't make people sicker ... because of molds, contaminants, pesticides. There needs to be oversight. But the oversight doesn't need to be scared,” he said.
 
He has a vision for Oklahoma.
 “We can create more jobs; we can stop feeding the prison system,” he said.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 16, 2014, 08:16:46 pm
Faces of Cannabis

http://faceofcannabis.wordpress.com

Its not what you think.


What a beautiful bunch of babies!!  

Very good friend grew up having seizures from epilepsy.  Sometimes better controlled than others....  Our group was always very protective - at that time, epilepsy was still considered as "satanic possession" by way too many people in northeast Oklahoma who should have known better....  Always thought she could have been helped by taking a hit from time to time.

And yet today, we still have TRUE evil in this world - in this country - that will deny even allowing research on the substance, let alone use in applications that have already been shown to have tremendous effect and help!!  Forcing these innocent babies to suffer for NO reason other than the incarnation of their own satanic possession!!

And I don't even believe in satanic possession....



And on a related note - Kurt Glassco won re-election to his judgeship.  Says volumes on what people in this district really want - they want behind the scene deals for attempted murder - as long as they are white guys with all the connection benefits that being on the "inside" with all their buddy cronies with connections to the DA's office and the "movers and shakers" around town.  Had it been a poor black guy, what would assault with a deadly weapon on a couple of white minors out in suburbia - using an assault weapon SKS - get for a prison term??   10  years "observation" of behavior while they go about their life??  I'm guessing no.....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 20, 2014, 11:10:45 am
And yet today, we still have TRUE evil in this world - in this country - that will deny even allowing research on the substance, let alone use in applications that have already been shown to have tremendous effect and help



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRBAZJ4lF0U[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 20, 2014, 11:27:18 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRBAZJ4lF0U[/youtube]



"Smooth....."


One on left lied....she has smoked before...!!




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 22, 2014, 12:54:01 pm
Yes it's an ad, just go with it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xt_WnCYnsU[/youtube]



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 08, 2014, 06:25:25 pm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyi0QrPMq4 [/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 08, 2014, 06:52:07 pm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyi0QrPMq4 [/youtube]


i eat cheese, too!!  'Cause I'm an American...!!




These are the droids you're looking for!


The pot pie looked pretty good....now, I gotta warm up some turkey and dressing - leftovers from Apple Barrel Cafe lunch yesterday!  Yum!!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 11, 2014, 07:53:30 pm

Feds: Native American Tribes Can Make Their Own Marijuana Laws

GRANTS PASS, Ore. (AP) — The U.S. Justice Department said Thursday Indian tribes can grow and sell marijuana on their lands as long as they follow the same federal conditions laid out for states that have legalized the drug.


(http://www.usnews.com/cmsmedia/06/f8/0225fcee4130b9f5b7fff8b73ab8/141211-indianlands-editorial.jpg)





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 11, 2014, 08:03:51 pm

Feds: Native American Tribes Can Make Their Own Marijuana Laws

GRANTS PASS, Ore. (AP) — The U.S. Justice Department said Thursday Indian tribes can grow and sell marijuana on their lands as long as they follow the same federal conditions laid out for states that have legalized the drug.


(http://www.usnews.com/cmsmedia/06/f8/0225fcee4130b9f5b7fff8b73ab8/141211-indianlands-editorial.jpg)




Kinda ironic... looks like Congress is going to put that into law, but prevent DC from implementing their duly elected law.

If I didn't know better I might think they are finally backing off the oppression of the tribes by the full force and weight of the US, while keeping their thumb on black people in DC by the full force and weight of the US.

Or would that be too indelicate to state outright....?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 12, 2014, 10:14:51 am
Kinda ironic... looks like Congress is going to put that into law, but prevent DC from implementing their duly elected law.

People and businesses we are trying to attract might look at Tulsa a bit differently if they knew you could legally have a joint at The Joint.

What is ironic is that we could have recreational use before we even gave an honest look at medicinal use.  There are patients who could this minute benefit from the non-intoxicating components like CBD.   But... elected and non-elected officials can turn their back on children with uncontrollable seizures under the false cover of "preserving family values" by enforcing laws that were created for all the wrong reasons.

Oh, well, just bring the kids to the casino...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on December 12, 2014, 12:19:42 pm

Feds: Native American Tribes Can Make Their Own Marijuana Laws

GRANTS PASS, Ore. (AP) — The U.S. Justice Department said Thursday Indian tribes can grow and sell marijuana on their lands as long as they follow the same federal conditions laid out for states that have legalized the drug.




So while I'm eye-balling Osage county, what does this mean to the Tulsa Irish?


Title: Re:
Post by: LeGenDz on December 12, 2014, 12:40:39 pm
http://m.tulsaworld.com/dailybreak/no-pot-sales-for-oklahoma-tribes-official-says/article_dea1c5e0-bf2c-524c-adaa-36638d35a1db.html?mode=jqm


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 12, 2014, 01:27:48 pm
So while I'm eye-balling Osage county, what does this mean to the Tulsa Irish?

That it's a good thing the Hard Rock Cafe has a nearby hotel?   ;D




One U.S. Attorney, Sanford Coats, said he "doesnt believe the door is wide open for tribal marijuana sales."

"Coats said he believes any decision not to enforce federal marijuana laws on Indian lands would be limited to states that have voted to liberalize marijuana laws."
  even though the DOJ memo didnt make that distinction.

But the Chairman of the committee Coats is speaking for has another view:

Timothy Purdom, the U.S. attorney for North Dakota and the chairman of the attorney general’s subcommittee on Native American issues, explained to the Los Angeles Times that federal prosecutors will not enforce federal pot laws as long as reservations meet the same guidelines as states that have opted for legalization. He also said the federal government will continue to support any marijuana bans passed by tribal councils, even when the state allows recreational use.  In other words: The government will let tribal governments decide what to do about pot.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/12/native-american-reservations-now-free-to-legalize-marijuana/



"I can’t see how that would even be possible in Oklahoma because we don’t have any legalized sale of marijuana here,"
Coats said.

We dont have legalized gambling in Oklahoma, either, yet you can go to a tribal Casino and gamble away the day.




And then there's this:

In a landmark moment for cannabis law reform, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a measure late Thursday night to de-fund the federal war on medical marijuana.
http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2014/12/12/congress-ends-war-on-medical-marijuana/













Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 14, 2014, 07:06:39 pm
So while I'm eye-balling Osage county, what does this mean to the Tulsa Irish?


It means we are still as screwed as ever.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 15, 2014, 11:30:35 am

It means we are still as screwed as ever.

The casino operators would not overlook an opportunity to pull in new cash hand-over-fist here, and thats exactly what they would be doing by being the first to offer legal cannabis as part of their tourism package.

If the tribes were truly caught off guard by the DOJ announcement, we would be naive to think that they arent at this very moment scrambling to put together a business model that will hit the ground running.  I would not be surprised if they didnt already have people in Colorado and Washington researching their butts off.   Fallin and the for-profit prison lobbyists must be worried, as well. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 15, 2014, 12:15:10 pm

Fallin and the for-profit prison lobbyists must be worried, as well. 



Naw...she has the Oklahoma electorate firmly in hand so she don't care.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 18, 2014, 03:36:45 pm
Oklahoma sues Colorado over legal Cannabis.


Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt argued that under the U.S. Constitution's Supremacy Clause, Colorado's legalization of recreational marijuana is unconstitutional because marijuana remains illegal under federal law.
The clause states that in general, federal law takes precedence over state law.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/18/lawsuit-colorado-marijuana_n_6350162.html



I wonder how Pruitt views states rights on other issues?  Hmmm.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 18, 2014, 04:18:49 pm
Oklahoma sues Colorado over legal Cannabis.


Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt argued that under the U.S. Constitution's Supremacy Clause, Colorado's legalization of recreational marijuana is unconstitutional because marijuana remains illegal under federal law.
The clause states that in general, federal law takes precedence over state law.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/18/lawsuit-colorado-marijuana_n_6350162.html



I wonder how Pruitt views states rights on other issues?  Hmmm.

Pruitt is an idiot.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 18, 2014, 09:01:06 pm
Pruitt is an idiot.


...and he got us spanked by the national media:



Conservative Republican attorneys general in Oklahoma and Nebraska waited until December to claim title to the “Nuisance Lawsuit of 2014.”  They are suing neighboring Colorado over its legalization of marijuana.

If they can’t keep same-sex couples from getting married, one supposes, these backward states want to go on busting young people for marijuana possession, permanently damaging lives and discrediting the criminal justice system it is the AGs’ job to uphold.

Washington and Colorado voted, in 2012, to legalize, regulate and tax a substance that has been smoked or eaten by an estimated 100 million Americans.  Our future 44th president made reference to it in his Honolulu high school yearbook.  Our 42nd president claimed that he puffed but didn’t inhale.

The U.S. Constitution’s 18th Amendment, instituting Prohibition, set off a march of folly.  President Warren G. Harding quaffed highballs at his poker games. Urban gangsters went on murder sprees to control the business.  A 250-gallon still blew up in the mining town of Ronald, Washington, taking 28 homes with it.

America quickly saw that Prohibition was counterproductive and a mockery. It was enforced for just 13 years, from 1920 to 1933.

By contrast, the 1970 Controlled Substances Act has undermined the credibility of America’s criminal justice system for 45 years.

Between 2001 and 2010, more than 8.1 million marijuana arrests were made in America.  Nine out of 10 were for simple possession.

In 2012, for instance, 658,000 Americans were arrested for simply possessing pot (down from 754,000 in 2008), compared to 521,000 for violent crimes and 256,000 for possession and/or distribution of cocaine, heroin and genuinely addictive substances.

The march to folly grew more rapidly in some places, with such practices as New York’s “broken window” policy of concentrating enforcement on petty crime. Marijuana possession arrests went from 800 in 1991 to 59,000 in 2010, the vast majority being Black and Hispanic young men.

Who gets busted?  Well, let’s look at plaintiff states in the suit filed on Thursday.  In Nebraska, an African-American is 4.5 times more likely to be arrested than a white, according to statistics compiled by the American Civil Liberties Union.  It’s 2.8 times in Oklahoma, relatively benign compared to other states.

Yet, yet, Oklahoma and Nebraska charge that Colorado’s legal pot policies have created “a dangerous gap in the federal drug control system.”

How so?  At an annual cost to taxpayers of $3.6 billion, that control system has controlled nothing.  Thirty-five states and the District of Columbia have legalized medical marijuana.  On April 20 (and at Seattle’s summer Hempfest) thousands of people openly defy the law.

Oklahoma and Nebraska are reminiscent of the last European country (Portugal) that tried to hold onto its colonies, or the 17 states that still had laws against interracial marriage when the U.S. Supreme Court issued its Loving v. Virginia ruling.

“Marijuana flows from this gap into neighboring states, undermining Plaintiffs states’ own marijuana bans, draining their treasuries and placing stress on their criminal justice systems,” Oklahoma and Nebraska argue in their brief to the U.S. Supreme Court.

But it is the futile, long-ago-lost “War on Drugs” that is draining their treasuries, and marijuana possession cases and incarcerations that are stressing out their criminal justices systems … and has been so doing long before the “Rocky Mountain high” vote of 2012.

The Controlled Substances Act is still on the books — don’t expect Camel-puffing House Speaker John Boehner to support its repeal — but is the most-ignored federal prohibition since, well, Prohibition.
(Ed: Congress pulled the plug on funding the federal war on medical marijuana just last week)

Fortunately, Washington has more enlightened neighbors south of the Columbia River and north of the 49th parallel.  Indeed, while illegal, marijuana is by far British Columbia’s most valuable agricultural crop.

The Supreme Court has jurisdiction in controversies between two or more states. The Supremes will decide whether to hear the Oklahoma-Nebraska lawsuit.

Here’s hoping Washington Attorney General Bob Ferguson files a strong brief supporting Colorado, arguing that the Nebraska-Oklahoma lawsuit is not only without merit but lacks even a modest use of intelligence.


http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2014/12/18/oklahoma-nebraska-a-nuisance-lawsuit-against-colorado-marijuana/



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: CoffeeBean on December 18, 2014, 09:16:12 pm
Regardless of whether you disagree with Colorado, Oklahoma can't force it to pass a law.

Does Oklahoma get to determine the sanction too? 

This toes the line of frivolity.

It won't happen, but I'd love to see SCOTUS issue a show cause order for Oklahoma to explain why sanctions should not issue for wasting the Court's time. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 19, 2014, 12:17:00 am
And we just keep on showing the nation and the world why they should all flock to our "shores"....

Well, it was still over half the electorate that voted for the clown.  So, we just can't seem to take off the clown suit and grow up.  Again.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 19, 2014, 09:45:45 am
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/9a/69a8ffe0-6a5f-5dc9-9530-591bde7a187b/5488f66d05549.image.jpg?resize=300%2C437)

Does he remind any of you of a certain "smirking chimp”?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 19, 2014, 09:59:38 am
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/9a/69a8ffe0-6a5f-5dc9-9530-591bde7a187b/5488f66d05549.image.jpg?resize=300%2C437)

Does he remind any of you of a certain "smirking chimp”?


George Bush.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 19, 2014, 11:28:04 am

Does he remind any of you of a certain "smirking chimp”?


Pruitt said they are in talks with law enforcement across the state about the extra costs of protecting the border from Colorado marijuana.

So our AG is "pre-suing" for damages he thinks must exist but doesnt offer any proof of.
Whats in the other 100+ pages of this suit?  Maybe a slick ad campaign to counter Faces of Cannabis (https://faceofcannabis.wordpress.com)

We are so on the wrong side of history with this pettiness.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 19, 2014, 12:34:32 pm

Pruitt said they are in talks with law enforcement across the state about the extra costs of protecting the border from Colorado marijuana.

So our AG is "pre-suing" for damages he thinks must exist but doesnt offer any proof of.
Whats in the other 100+ pages of this suit?  Maybe a slick ad campaign to counter Faces of Cannabis (https://faceofcannabis.wordpress.com)

We are so on the wrong side of history with this pettiness.

So, do we now set up border crossings at the points of entry with Colorado?  String up a border fence?

I’m thinking Pruitt is more like this guy:

(http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/MAD-Magazine-Alfred-E-Neuman-Norman-Mingo.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on December 19, 2014, 01:01:45 pm
Pruitt said they are in talks with law enforcement across the state about the extra costs of protecting the border from Colorado marijuana.

I mean, I get it.  Pot is so hard to come by here in OK that there will be huge flood tide of stoners making the run to CO to bring back some quality weed...

(Sarcasm definitely intended)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on December 19, 2014, 01:30:52 pm
I mean, I get it.  Pot is so hard to come by here in OK that there will be huge flood tide of stoners making the run to CO to bring back some quality weed...

(Sarcasm definitely intended)

I was wondering about that.  Is he being pressured by OK pot growers and Ken Miller that this could really hit OK's economy?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 19, 2014, 02:17:35 pm
Quote from: Pruitt says
States Rights! Economic Development!  Will of the People!

Unless we don't like it.  Then screw all of that.  To Uncle Sam to force my will on Colorado!  Tra la la!

Poorly thought out, hypocritical case. Facts aren't clear, law seems shady (Oklahoma doesn't like Colorados law that might affect Oklahoma).  Seems like another in a long line of losers for Oklahoma's Attorney General's office, to along with:

1) Suing Arkansas
2) Suing Texas
3) Suing Uncle same repeatedly
4) Gay marriage
5) 2009 Tort reform
6) 2011 Tort reform
7) Most of the provisions in the new WC law

I dont think Oklahoma requires a state permit for certain types of firearms illegal in other states.  Missouri is one of those states. Can Missouri sue Oklahoma to force Oklahoma to make firearms Missouri doesn't like illegal because some citizen of Missouri might utilize Oklahoma's added freedoms to break the law in Missouri?  Seems crappy to me. Alcohol sales are legal in New Mexico on Sundays... should we sue New Mexico because Oklahomans might go over there and buy beer on Sunday?

Better yet: the reasoning is stupid. More pot coming in to Oklahoma from Colorado?  

Question: How much pot did the average Oklahoma citizen smoke before pot was legal in Colorado?
Answer: however much pot an Oklahoman chose to buy.

Did you ever hear the police say "the war on drugs has been really successful, we've cut down on the pot supply to the point where it is hard to get." Because all of the people I know that smoke(d) pot didn't seem to have a real tough time getting it.  Some of them didn't even have much money, but seemed to be able to obtain and afford marijuana long before it was legal in Colorado.

What makes legal pot in Colorado all of a sudden flood the Oklahoma market? They haven't had time to build up over size grow operations. If anything, one would think the marginal increase in demand (former casual users that are now professionals may rejoin the market and buy recreational marijuana whereas before they had a greater risk of damaging their career with criminal charges, etc.).  One would think an increase in demand would make marijuana harder to come by in neighboring states as Colorado "sucked up" the market supply. Weren't we all told there would be a huge increase in demand and illegal trafficking if we made it legal?

Anyone "know someone" who frequently purchases marijuana and can say if it is easier or harder, cheaper or more expensive to get marijuana in Oklahoma?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 19, 2014, 02:21:09 pm
He should sue North Korea and Kim Jung Un next for the irreparable economic damage done by the release of “The Interview” being cancelled in Oklahoma theaters.    :o


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 19, 2014, 05:30:37 pm
I was thinking we should sue John Steinbeck for the reputation harm he did to Oklahoma.

Sure he wrote it 75 years ago and the SOL is blown.
Yeah he died 35 years ago.
And there is that whole first amendment crap to deal with.

But I say we go all in!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 19, 2014, 11:02:05 pm
Poorly thought out, hypocritical case. Facts aren't clear, law seems shady (Oklahoma doesn't like Colorados law that might affect Oklahoma).  Seems like another in a long line of losers for Oklahoma's Attorney General's office



Too many Oklahomans and Nebraskans are buying weed in Colorado and bringing it back home, and it has made the attorney generals in those states sad. They want Uncle Sam to take Colorado's legal weed away and give it back to the black market so that the drug cartels, corrupt government officials, and the prison industry can go back to business as usual.

http://boingboing.net/2014/12/19/oklahoma-and-nebraska-ask-supr.html




With more than a hundred pages, Pruitt has likely not even read the whole suit, handed down to him from a much-too-powerful-union.

His nose is so far up it, no wonder he Cant Breathe.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: guido911 on December 20, 2014, 12:19:41 am

Well, it was still over half the electorate that voted for the clown.  So, we just can't seem to take off the clown suit and grow up.  Again.




I know. But enough about Obama....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: guido911 on December 20, 2014, 12:26:05 am
Here is a link to the AG website setting out more than just the above few cherry-picked issues his office has been involved in.

http://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom.php?id=258

For what its worth, I have litigated against the AG office on several occasions. Good lawyers.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: guido911 on December 20, 2014, 12:48:36 am
Oklahoma sues Colorado over legal Cannabis.


Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt argued that under the U.S. Constitution's Supremacy Clause, Colorado's legalization of recreational marijuana is unconstitutional because marijuana remains illegal under federal law.
The clause states that in general, federal law takes precedence over state law.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/18/lawsuit-colorado-marijuana_n_6350162.html



I wonder how Pruitt views states rights on other issues?  Hmmm.

Good question. I wonder how you feel about Oklahomans overwhelmingly voting to oppose gay marriage. How did that work out for them? I bet you really liked the last sentence from that Huffingpaint post:

Quote
Our federalist system is based on individual states being able to enact policies that benefit their citizens, without the interference of other states," Polis said.

Apparently you and that congressman did not get the "federal law trumps state" law memo. As an FYI, here's a copy of the petition so you can read for yourself what is really going on--rather than reading some agenda-driven blogger. You may be disappointed as there seems to be no allegations that some cop was randomly beating innocent people for their personal enjoyment...

http://links.govdelivery.com/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMTQxMjE4LjM5NTQwNTkxJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD1NREItUFJELUJVTC0yMDE0MTIxOC4zOTU0MDU5MSZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTE3MDIyMDE1JmVtYWlsaWQ9YWFyb24uY29vcGVyQG9hZy5vay5nb3YmdXNlcmlkPWFhcm9uLmNvb3BlckBvYWcub2suZ292JmZsPSZleHRyYT1NdWx0aXZhcmlhdGVJZD0mJiY=&&&101&&&http://www.ok.gov/oag/documents/NE%20%20OK%20v%20%20CO%20-%20Original%20Action.pdf


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on December 20, 2014, 01:03:19 pm
Good question. I wonder how you feel about Oklahomans overwhelmingly voting to oppose gay marriage.

Oklahomans realized their mistake and moved on.  It was a dumbassed move in the first place.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 20, 2014, 02:09:20 pm
So, do we now set up border crossings at the points of entry with Colorado?  String up a border fence?


Thousands of people are petitioning Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt and Nebraska Attorney General Jon Bruning, asking them to withdraw the lawsuit.
http://kfor.com/2014/12/20/new-petition-asks-oklahoma-attorney-general-to-withdraw-lawsuit-against-colorado/



Wallace Collins, the chairman of the Oklahoma Democratic Party, issued the following statement regarding Pruitt’s involvement with the lawsuit:

    “It is astounding that Mr. Pruitt didn’t even realize that the Republican bill passed by his colleagues last week contains language that prohibits the US Department of Justice from interfering with state marijuana laws. It is ironic that Mr. Pruitt is the crusader against frivolous lawsuits, but he personally files a significant number of them. Also, I though Mr. Pruitt campaigned on home rule and local control, but he is the first to fight local control and home rule. Did the pharmaceutical industry write this lawsuit for him?”

When speaking about the pharmaceutical industry, Collins is referring to a recent controversy involving Pruitt and his alleged ties with energy companies
( http://kfor.com/2014/12/08/i-was-stunned-ny-times-article-blasts-oklahoma-attorney-general-accuses-him-of-secret-alliance ).



https://www.change.org/p/scott-pruitt-withdraw-the-lawsuit-against-colorado-s-marijuana-legalization-laws


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on December 20, 2014, 08:00:52 pm
According to the Whirled, Oklahoma authorities are confiscating bags of marijuana that contain from 15 to 400 pounds. A non-resident cannot legally purchase more than 1/4 of an ounce and a resident cannot purchase more than an ounce. So those buyers and sellers - if this does indeed originate in Colorado - are already breaking the law. State and federal authorities have raided a few grow operations for back door sales.

So it seems our AG's effort is an attempt to make what is illegal more illegaler. Next thing you know, he'll put Colorado on double secret probation.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/oklahoma-officials-say-colorado-unable-to-control-marijuana-industry/article_8d000885-d18a-5055-ab0b-a1dbb45e0d71.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/oklahoma-officials-say-colorado-unable-to-control-marijuana-industry/article_8d000885-d18a-5055-ab0b-a1dbb45e0d71.html)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 21, 2014, 11:24:52 am
According to the Whirled, Oklahoma authorities are confiscating bags of marijuana that contain from 15 to 400 pounds. A non-resident cannot legally purchase more than 1/4 of an ounce and a resident cannot purchase more than an ounce. So those buyers and sellers - if this does indeed originate in Colorado - are already breaking the law. State and federal authorities have raided a few grow operations for back door sales.

So it seems our AG's effort is an attempt to make what is illegal more illegaler. Next thing you know, he'll put Colorado on double secret probation.

For those who dont read the Whirled, here's what your missing:


“If Colorado had merely legalized marijuana for personal use and possession then there would be no lawsuit from Oklahoma and Nebraska,” Pruitt said in a written statement.

If you really like that idea, why not suggest it for your own state?



The real problem seems to be less legal sales of Colorado marijuana and more what appear to be illegal sales of potent new strains of cannabis grown in both licensed and unlicensed facilities and in the state’s vast wilderness areas.

That's still illegal in Colorado, so the suit wants to shut down the parts that are legal?



And this gem from the Narcotics Bureau:

As (OBN spokesman) Woodward noted, some of the most potent marijuana is being grown in Colorado — so much so that pot is now being smuggled from the U.S. into Mexico.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 21, 2014, 02:52:11 pm
Guido,

Please recall that Oklahomans sued Oklahoma over the constitutionality of the anti gay legislation. Colorado didn't.

Additionally, we aren't arguing that Oklahomans have an equal protection argument to not have pot sold to Colorado citizens in Colorado.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 21, 2014, 08:56:17 pm
Thousands of people are petitioning Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt and Nebraska Attorney General Jon Bruning, asking them to withdraw the lawsuit.
http://kfor.com/2014/12/20/new-petition-asks-oklahoma-attorney-general-to-withdraw-lawsuit-against-colorado/



Wallace Collins, the chairman of the Oklahoma Democratic Party, issued the following statement regarding Pruitt’s involvement with the lawsuit:

    “It is astounding that Mr. Pruitt didn’t even realize that the Republican bill passed by his colleagues last week contains language that prohibits the US Department of Justice from interfering with state marijuana laws. It is ironic that Mr. Pruitt is the crusader against frivolous lawsuits, but he personally files a significant number of them. Also, I though Mr. Pruitt campaigned on home rule and local control, but he is the first to fight local control and home rule. Did the pharmaceutical industry write this lawsuit for him?”

When speaking about the pharmaceutical industry, Collins is referring to a recent controversy involving Pruitt and his alleged ties with energy companies
( http://kfor.com/2014/12/08/i-was-stunned-ny-times-article-blasts-oklahoma-attorney-general-accuses-him-of-secret-alliance ).



https://www.change.org/p/scott-pruitt-withdraw-the-lawsuit-against-colorado-s-marijuana-legalization-laws

I’m personally convinced Pruitt has bigger political ambitions and he’s padding his resume as an arch conservative the Tea Party would love to run.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 21, 2014, 10:31:13 pm
I know. But enough about Obama....


That sounds like what I heard kids say in third grade...  "I know you are, but what am I...?"


Come on, guido, I know you can do better than that!!


I am curious about one thing - from the legal view - do you or your friends feel like Pruitt has been an asset to the state from an AG standpoint?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on December 22, 2014, 12:10:08 am
I’m personally convinced Pruitt has bigger political ambitions and he’s padding his resume as an arch conservative the Tea Party would love to run.

I could easily be convinced to vote against him.
 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 22, 2014, 01:52:32 pm
The number's don't support the claim. QUICK over lunch style math, it seems like Oklahoma had an adaquate supply of pot before. Given that is was an unregulated "black" market, that stands to reason. But nonetheless...

In 2001 (last year data is published by the DOJ) 19,125 POUNDS of marijuana were confiscated "on Oklahoma's highways."  Presumably, a multiplier of that amount was confiscated not on highways. Shall we say 30,000 pounds to be conservative?
http://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs2/2286/marijuan.htm

At the border, the US Border Patrol estimates they manage to confiscate at most 20% of the drugs people try to smuggle across (many estimates say 5-10%). I'm guessing we do a little worse than military-grade-check-point when it gets into Oklahoma.  But sure, lets say we catch 1/5th of the marijuana coming in. That mean's there is 150,000 pounds of marijuana a year in Oklahoma.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/30/18589533-experts-say-drug-mules-are-easy-to-find-hard-to-catch?lite

About 10% of the population in Oklahoma considers themselves a regular user. That's 380,000 people.
http://www.statemaster.com/country/OK-oklahoma/hea-health

So, (30000 * 5 * 16)/380000 = OZ per user.

Or 6.3 OZ of weed per user per year. Or about an eighth of an ounce per week per user. Which is TWICE the estimate of the "average" user according to some book from Cambridge...
https://books.google.com/books?id=lCbenVFNlzkC&pg=PA155&lpg=PA155&dq=average+marijuana+consumption+per+user&source=bl&ots=mbiIPA8HeV&sig=xvtaWC9gekD0BEpI9LvBbCcFgQg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x3CYVLagDIiMyATRxIKgAw&ved=0CFoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=average%20marijuana%20consumption%20per%20user&f=false

In Colorado, they found that average user consume .6 grams per day. Which would pretty much put my numbers of marijuana in Oklahoma on par with demand/use in Oklahoma prior to Colorado legalizing marijuana (to be fair, Colorado's use stats come out to ~7oz per user.  I'm assuming pot heads in Colorado can show us up, on average).
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/default/files/Market%20Size%20and%20Demand%20Study,%20July%209,%202014%5B1%5D.pdf
- - - -

One top of that, they destroyed 8000 outdoor plants and some indoor plants. Do you think they got half? Pretending they did that's 16,000 total plants in Oklahoma - at ~2 pounds of product per plant that's ANOTHER 32,000 pounds of marijuana that likely didn't have to risk being transported as far.
- - -

ECONOMICS doesn't support the claim either -

IN Denver, an ounce of marijuana regualrily sells for $250 an ounce + 21% tax = $302:
https://www.coloradopotguide.com/colorado-marijuana-blog/2014/may/28/marijuana-prices-dropping-in-denver/
priceofweed.com

The DOJ says commercial-grade marijuana sells in Tulsa for $120 to $250 an ounce (trying to look at comparable grades):
http://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs2/2286/marijuan.htm
priceofweed.com

So why take the extra risk of illegal sales, trafficking, and reselling a product when any gain that is had is marginal at best, and likely non-existent on the originator's side?


Sure, it's possible and even likely that some people are exploiting Colorado's law to bring home some pot.  It is also possible that some people are using it to smuggle in hundreds of pounds - but I can't see that as a significant factor int he tens of thousands of pounds grown and consumed in Oklahoma on an annual basis.

and I simply don't buy the argument that Oklahoma HAD to sue Colorado to support Federalism. I assume that argument is a joke. "Look Colorado, we are going to sue you to overturn your law and try to make the Federal government force you to enforce their law which is contrary to your law because neither you nor the Federal government want that to happen, so we assume this will all work out when the Court orders the Federal government to enforce their law by making Colorado have its police and troopers enforce it for them. K Thx Bai, Oklahoma"





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 28, 2014, 05:29:37 pm
and I simply don't buy the argument that Oklahoma HAD to sue Colorado to support Federalism. I assume that argument is a joke. "Look Colorado, we are going to sue you to overturn your law and try to make the Federal government force you to enforce their law which is contrary to your law because neither you nor the Federal government want that to happen, so we assume this will all work out when the Court orders the Federal government to enforce their law by making Colorado have its police and troopers enforce it for them. K Thx Bai, Oklahoma"


On the "Casinos will have first legal pot in Oklahoma" front:

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. — The Navajo Nation had bitter debates when it was deciding whether to allow casinos on the reservation and if alcohol should be sold in them. The arguments focused on the revenue and jobs casinos and liquor could bring to a reservation where half the workforce is unemployed and most arrests and pervasive social ills are linked to alcohol abuse.

When the federal government announced this month that it would allow American Indian tribes to grow and sell marijuana, the same divisive discussions resurfaced. The tribal president's office talked of expanding crops to include pot for medicinal but not recreational use, while a tribal lawmaker quickly declared his opposition.

http://www.fox23.com/ap/ap/business/tribes-tread-carefully-into-marijuana-discussions/njYb9/



...and the "Feds are tired of the BS WOD" front:

New medical pot law sign of federal progress
http://www.pressherald.com/2014/12/24/our-view-new-medical-pot-law-sign-of-federal-progress

By barring the use of federal funds to prosecute patients and suppliers, Congress resolves a regulatory disconnect.

Congress recently gave an early Christmas present to residents of 33 states where medical marijuana is legal: Buried in the massive 2015 federal spending bill is a provision that bars the Justice Department from using federal funds to prosecute patients and suppliers who are complying with state regulations.

The measure expires when the spending bill does, in October. And it doesn’t make cannabis – in any form – legal under federal law. But by allowing those who need medical marijuana to use it without fear they’ll be targeted by the federal government, lawmakers have taken a small but significant step toward resolving a regulatory disconnect and making ordinary Americans’ lives easier.

In a little over four years, the Justice Department under President Obama has brought almost as many medical marijuana cases as the agency brought in eight years under President George W. Bush.
A Maine medical marijuana patient lights a joint to treat pain from surgery Oct. 9, 2012. In a little over four years, the Justice Department under President Obama has brought almost as many medical marijuana cases as the agency brought in eight years under President George W. Bush.    

In 1996, California passed the nation’s first medical marijuana law. In 1999, medical marijuana was legalized in Maine; retail dispensaries for the drug became legal here in 2009. That same year, Attorney General Eric Holder announced that the Justice Department would go after medical marijuana providers only if they violated both state and federal statutes.

That pledge, however, doesn’t seem to have stopped federal officials from zealously pursuing users and suppliers of medical cannabis. In a little over four years, the Obama administration brought 153 medical marijuana cases – compared to 163 cases in all eight years of the George W. Bush administration, the anti-marijuana prohibition group NORML reported in 2013. The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration and several U.S. attorneys have raided hundreds of dispensaries that were following state laws. Over 335 defendants (mostly in California) have been charged with federal crimes; 158 have been sentenced to a combined 480 years in prison.

The price tag for the raids, arrests, investigations, prosecutions, incarceration and probation? Around $300 million and rising, according to the medical marijuana patient advocacy group Safe Access Now.

Though a growing number of Americans have become fed up at this level of overkill, it’s taken years to see change. Congress repeatedly rejected proposals to codify Holder’s hands-off policy into federal law. Ending the federal ban on medical marijuana has required the endorsement of pro-states’ rights Republicans like Dana Rohrabacher, who joined forces with another California congressman, Democrat Sam Farr, to craft the medical cannabis language that was approved Dec. 11.

A lot of work remains to be done at the federal level. The limits on the Justice Department’s pursuit of medical marijuana cases have an expiration date of Sept. 30, 2015. What’s more, the federal DEA still classifies marijuana as a Schedule I drug: a substance more dangerous than cocaine, with no known benefits and a “high capacity for abuse.” Long-lasting reform will entail passage of H.R. 689, which would reclassify marijuana for medical use and increase therapeutic research.

But the recently approved legislation represents progress. Sick people and their caregivers shouldn’t be in law enforcement’s crosshairs for engaging in activity that their state has recognized as legal – and it’s encouraging that federal policymakers have finally recognized this.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on January 06, 2015, 12:56:25 pm
GOP Lawmakers Critical of Oklahoma's Marijuana Lawsuit

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201402/Mike_Ritze.jpg)

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gop-lawmakers-critical-oklahomas-marijuana-lawsuit (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gop-lawmakers-critical-oklahomas-marijuana-lawsuit)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Several Republican Oklahoma legislators are criticizing Attorney General Scott Pruitt for his decision to join Nebraska in a lawsuit against Colorado over that state's legalization of marijuana.

A group of seven GOP legislators wrote to Pruitt, also a Republican, voicing their concern over the lawsuit asking the U.S. Supreme Court to declare Colorado's legalization of marijuana unconstitutional.

Broken Arrow Republican Rep. Mike Ritze says his concern is not about marijuana, but about the right of states to "govern themselves as they see fit."

But Pruitt maintains he's a states' rights advocate and that his lawsuit against Colorado only challenges the portions of the law that could allow for the drug to be trafficked into Oklahoma.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on January 06, 2015, 01:17:01 pm
States should be allowed to pass their own laws and govern their own people. But I reserve the right to spend a bunch of taxpayer money fighting another state if such a fight allows me to hire a bunch of my lawyer friends and score some cheap political points.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 06, 2015, 01:55:01 pm
States should be allowed to pass their own laws and govern their own people. But I reserve the right to spend a bunch of taxpayer money fighting another state if such a fight allows me to hire a bunch of my lawyer friends and score some cheap political points.


Bruning and Pruitt’s crusade against Colorado’s marijuana laws conflicts with their ostensible support of states’ rights.
As attorney general of Oklahoma, Pruitt has led the next major challenge to the act, insisting that the federal government must respect states’ decisions not to set up their own exchanges and to deny their citizens cheap access to good insurance.

But when another state decides to experiment with a new drug policy, Bruning and Pruitt’s support for state sovereignty dries up. They are arguing that Congress’s prohibition against marijuana should force every state to prohibit it as well.

These attorneys general aren’t opposed to all intoxicants.
Their position on marijuana might have something to do with the fact that both Bruning and  Pruitt have received significant campaign contributions from alcohol industries.
   http://www.followthemoney.org/entity-details?eid=6583668

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/12/oklahoma_and_nebraska_sue_colorado_a_hypocritical_lawsuit_could_undermine.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 10, 2015, 01:51:02 pm
Maria Rabadan has one last request, on behalf of her seriously ill son, for outgoing Gov. Pat Quinn — issue the licenses that will allow medical marijuana to be grown and sold in Illinois.

Rabadan’s 9-year-old son, Jancarlo, suffers from a rare form of epilepsy, and the family wants to use a form of non-smokeable medical marijuana known to help children who suffer from seizures.

“He has the power in his hands,” the emotional Mount Prospect mom said of the governor. “We ask that he has compassion for the kids.”

But as Quinn prepares to leave office, his administration hasn’t announced who will be granted the coveted medical marijuana business licenses. State officials blew their own deadline of issuing the limited licenses before the end of 2014. Medical marijuana is legal in Illinois for adults and children who suffer from specific conditions, but until the licenses are awarded, it can’t be grown, sold or used.

Traditional prescription medicines haven’t worked and Rabadan and her husband hope to one day give Jancarlo a product know as CBD, short for cannabidiol, a compound in cannabis that, unlike the well-known THC, does not make people feel stoned. Families with kids like Jancarlo  have moved to Colorado just to be able to use the product because for some families, it helps.


http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/7/71/280084/mom-quinn-get-medical-marijuana-program-rolling


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 10, 2015, 06:17:56 pm
GOP Lawmakers Critical of Oklahoma's Marijuana Lawsuit
(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201402/Mike_Ritze.jpg)
http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gop-lawmakers-critical-oklahomas-marijuana-lawsuit (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gop-lawmakers-critical-oklahomas-marijuana-lawsuit)


Our AG, like our Governor, is for sale:

Energy Firms in Secretive Alliance With Attorney General Pruitt
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/us/politics/energy-firms-in-secretive-alliance-with-attorneys-general.html




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 01, 2015, 11:14:58 am
Amazing how much the nation's attitude shifted. 


Five Months After Decriminalizing Marijuana, Here's What's Happened in Philadelphia
http://mic.com/articles/109466/five-months-after-decriminalizing-marijuana-here-s-what-s-happened-in-philadelphia


Rand Paul Calls Out Jeb Bush's Marijuana "Hypocrisy," And He's Not Wrong
http://www.bustle.com/articles/61681-rand-paul-calls-out-jeb-bushs-marijuana-hypocrisy-and-hes-not-wrong




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 01, 2015, 08:59:45 pm
Amazing how much the nation's attitude shifted. 


Five Months After Decriminalizing Marijuana, Here's What's Happened in Philadelphia
http://mic.com/articles/109466/five-months-after-decriminalizing-marijuana-here-s-what-s-happened-in-philadelphia


Rand Paul Calls Out Jeb Bush's Marijuana "Hypocrisy," And He's Not Wrong
http://www.bustle.com/articles/61681-rand-paul-calls-out-jeb-bushs-marijuana-hypocrisy-and-hes-not-wrong





It's all about the money and connections.  Just like here, as in Judge Kurt Glassco and Tim Harris' office.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 11, 2015, 09:11:41 pm
Colorado Brings in $44 Million In Taxes On First Year Of Marijuana Sales

Fears about potential negative effects of legalized recreational marijuana seem to have been exaggerated at the announcement Colorado’s final haul in tax revenue after it’s first fiscal year of sales: $44 million.

The news of Colorado’s final tax revenue total is just the latest to show that, despite any claims to the contrary, the effects of legalization thus far are positive.   
Just two days ago, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released a study showing that unlike those who drink and drive, people who drive stoned are no more likely to crash than those who drive sober.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/09/stoned-drivers-are-a-lot-safer-than-drunk-ones-new-federal-data-show/


That study came on the same day that CNBC reported that legalized marijuana has contributed to taking away power from Mexican drug cartels  http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/09/legal-marijuana-drug-cartels/
and making the U.S. – Mexican border safer, as the total number of homicides in Mexico have dropped from 22,852 in 2011 to 15,649 in 2014.  And just one week ago in an interview with CBS “This Morning”, U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy stated that medical marijuana works as a legitimate medicine.  http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/04/u-s-surgeon-general-confirms-that-medical-marijuana-works/



http://www.dailycaller.com/2015/02/11/colorado-brings-in-44-million-in-taxes-on-first-year-of-marijuana-sales/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 22, 2015, 10:58:08 am
Feds Move to Decriminalize Marijuana

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/20/marijuana-legalization-congress_n_6722686.html

Two congressmen filed separate House bills on Friday that together would legalize, regulate and tax marijuana at the federal level, effectively ending the U.S. government's decades long prohibition of the plant.




And a big step for Alaska:
http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_27587135/recreational-marijuana-becomes-legal-alaska


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 03, 2015, 01:27:26 pm
In Texas, a conservative lawmaker filed a bill to completely deregulate marijuana in the Lone Star State Monday, proposing to strike any mention of the psychoactive plant from state law.

"Everything that God made is good, even marijuana" said state Rep. David Simpson, R-Longview, who filed the bill. "The conservative thought is that government doesn't need to fix something that God made good."

In his column, Simpson reflected on his Republican beliefs in small government and individual liberties, and he invoked biblical verse to explain his initiative to repeal marijuana prohibition.

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Texas-lawmaker-files-bill-to-legalize-marijuana-6111922.php





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 03, 2015, 02:30:59 pm

"The conservative thought is that government doesn't need to fix something that God made good."

In his column, Simpson reflected on his Republican beliefs in small government and individual liberties, and he invoked biblical verse to explain his initiative to repeal marijuana prohibition.



Makes one wonder why so few Republicans actually "practice what they preach" on small government and individual liberties.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 05, 2015, 06:47:21 pm
Makes one wonder why so few Republicans actually "practice what they preach" on small government and individual liberties.

I think a lot of sheriffs still believe for some strange reason that law enforcement can control marijuana, and it’s pretty obvious after being an officer for 40 years and after more than 50 years of a miserably failed drug war that it doesn’t work.

-- San Miguel (Telluride) County Sheriff Bill Masters

http://www.thecannabist.co/2015/03/05/telluride-sheriff-bill-masters-san-miguel-county-pot-lawsuit/31214/










Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on March 05, 2015, 06:55:33 pm
Poor old guy...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/06/heavily-armed-drug-cops-raid-retirees-garden-seize-okra-plants/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 05, 2015, 07:57:36 pm
Poor old guy...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/06/heavily-armed-drug-cops-raid-retirees-garden-seize-okra-plants/


Like the guy said...okra has 5 leaves, pot has 7.  Shame the cops can't count... so we're taking what?  4rd grade graduates??  Naw...all the 3rd graders I know can count to way more than 10 !!

But they ARE sorry!  They said so!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on March 06, 2015, 02:55:51 pm
148,000 pounds: The amount of marijuana legally sold in Colorado in 2014, the first full year that recreational marijuana has been legal in the state.

4.82 million: The number of marijuana-infused edibles sold in Colorado.

15,992: The number of people licensed to work in the pot business in Colorado.

143%: The increase in marijuana employment licenses since recreational marijuana was legalized in Colorado.

2,251: The total number of licensed marijuana businesses in Colorado.

$76 million: Total collected by Colorado from marijuana-related taxes and fees

Seems like a win to me.  (And no telling how much they didn't put into the prison system.)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on March 06, 2015, 04:44:25 pm

Seems like a win to me.  (And no telling how much they didn't put into the prison system.)


And that will be what'll stop it here in Oklahoma.

Once federal legalizes pot, how many lawsuits do you guys think Oklahoma will file?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on March 06, 2015, 07:21:51 pm
148,000 pounds: The amount of marijuana legally sold in Colorado in 2014, the first full year that recreational marijuana has been legal in the state.

4.82 million: The number of marijuana-infused edibles sold in Colorado.

15,992: The number of people licensed to work in the pot business in Colorado.

143%: The increase in marijuana employment licenses since recreational marijuana was legalized in Colorado.

2,251: The total number of licensed marijuana businesses in Colorado.

$76 million: Total collected by Colorado from marijuana-related taxes and fees

Seems like a win to me.  (And no telling how much they didn't put into the prison system.)


Curious about the uptick in sales tax from fast food restaurants and retailers of Little Debbie snack cakes.


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on March 07, 2015, 02:02:04 pm
On another tack, imagine the furor if one of the tribes goes into the marijuana bidness.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 07, 2015, 06:18:27 pm

Like the guy said...okra has 5 leaves, pot has 7.  Shame the cops can't count... so we're taking what?  4rd grade graduates??  Naw...all the 3rd graders I know can count to way more than 10 !!
But they ARE sorry!  They said so!


Sounds like:

Man spends 3 months in jail for possession of vitamins.

http://www.mankatofreepress.com/news/local_news/drug-charges-dismissed-it-really-was-vitamins/article_5bd3b8b8-b3bb-11e4-a86c-939946b09d9e.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 03, 2015, 11:10:05 am
Look how close this vote was

The House rejected, by a vote of 210-213, a proposal Thursday to allow doctors at Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals to discuss the use of medical marijuana with patients.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/240731-house-rejects-allowing-va-doctors-to-recommend-medical-marijuana


Veterans -- still under the bus.  Meanwhile in Oklahoma, the Governess last week signed a bill into law that would allow the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics to oversee non-existent clinical studies on non-intoxicating CBD oil (successfully used to treat children with seizures).  Given the OBN is on record as wanting to see any uses of marijuana fail, dont expect much from this delaying tactic.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 04, 2015, 02:51:20 pm
Look how close this vote was

The House rejected, by a vote of 210-213, a proposal Thursday to allow doctors at Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals to discuss the use of medical marijuana with patients.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/240731-house-rejects-allowing-va-doctors-to-recommend-medical-marijuana


Veterans -- still under the bus.  Meanwhile in Oklahoma, the Governess last week signed a bill into law that would allow the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics to oversee non-existent clinical studies on non-intoxicating CBD oil (successfully used to treat children with seizures).  Given the OBN is on record as wanting to see any uses of marijuana fail, dont expect much from this delaying tactic.


At least we are number 1 in something...!!!   It's just a crying shame it's not a good something.....


http://okpolicy.org/oklahoma-continues-lead-u-s-deepest-cuts-education



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 06, 2015, 07:17:31 pm
I guess our AG has to sue another neighboring state.



Texas House panel approves full legalization of marijuana

AUSTIN — In a surprise move that supporters hailed as a historic victory, the Texas House Criminal Jurisprudence Committee approved legislation Wednesday that would make it legal to buy and sell marijuana in the state.

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/texas/article/Texas-House-committee-approves-full-legalization-6247225.php


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on May 06, 2015, 08:50:09 pm
I guess our AG has to sue another neighboring state.



Texas House panel approves full legalization of marijuana

AUSTIN — In a surprise move that supporters hailed as a historic victory, the Texas House Criminal Jurisprudence Committee approved legislation Wednesday that would make it legal to buy and sell marijuana in the state.

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/texas/article/Texas-House-committee-approves-full-legalization-6247225.php

Don't think it's going anywhere very soon...but it is a little surprising...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 07, 2015, 11:21:39 am
Don't think it's going anywhere very soon...but it is a little surprising...

Bolder leadership than Gov. Mary Fallins "we'll think about considering the possibility of studying the idea of having the narcotics squad monitor any future talks about  experiments on a hypothetical select group of undefined medical patients, maybe," but since OBNDD is shifting more towards the sex trafficking business, maybe the writing is on the wall.   


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 16, 2015, 10:13:09 am

One of the biggest worries about legalized medical marijuana was that teenagers would smoke more pot, but it turns out those fears were wrong. A study just published in The Lancet Psychiatry showed no significant difference in adolescent marijuana use in the 21 states with medical marijuana laws.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/debraborchardt/2015/06/15/legalized-medical-marijuana-doesnt-increase-teen-usage/



So the sky is not falling.  OTOH, we could just keep the status quo.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln--police-pot-shop-raid-edibles-20150612-story.html

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTKTfUHfeKM[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 19, 2015, 05:07:00 pm
Delaware Gov. Jack Markell signed a bill Thursday that decriminalized marijuana use, and a host of ballot measures and legislative initiatives could push other states closer to decriminalization or legalization before the year is over.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-delaware-decriminalizes-marijuana-20150619-story.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 10, 2015, 09:51:43 am

Oklahomans who support medical marijuana gearing up for another petition drive
http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/oklahomans-who-support-medical-marijuana-gearing-a/nmtmh/

The drive to amend the Oklahoma Constitution to allow medical marijuana failed last year, but organizers say they learned a lot, and they're ready to take another shot at it.

While the actual petition drive won't begin until some time in August, the effort to register voters so they can sign the petition has already begun, and if it goes anything like it did last year, voter roles in Oklahoma will increase significantly.

"Last year during the petition, we broke all the records for how many people were registered during our petition," Isaac Caviness of Green the Vote told KRMG. "We registered 40,000 people to vote last year."

He added that while gathering signatures, he noticed a lot of support from combat veterans, and one day, he stopped one of them to ask why.
"He said we volunteer to go fight for your freedom so you can be here doing what you're doing fighting for ours. I'm tired of seeing my brothers commit suicide when they come home."

Many medical marijuana advocates say the drug is highly effective for people with PTSD.

A SoonerPoll conducted in 2013 indicated that 71% of Oklahomans favor medical marijuana.
The same poll indicated 57% support for the decriminalization of marijuana used for recreational purposes.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on July 26, 2015, 02:03:47 pm
http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/the-harmful-effects.html   >>> Turns out one joint is like smoking 5 cigs, if M.J. did not alter the brain and get you high no one would use it, the only reason for M.J. is to get high. We have enough problems with alcohol and illegal drug use without adding many more people on our streets  with fried brains from legal M.J. use.  Some guy high on M.J. thought he could fly so he jumped off a building, he couldn't fly. Splat! :(


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 26, 2015, 02:11:47 pm
http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/the-harmful-effects.html   >>> Turns out one joint is like smoking 5 cigs, if M.J. did not alter the brain and get you high no one would use it, the only reason for M.J. is to get high. We have enough problems with alcohol and illegal drug use without adding many more people on our streets  with fried brains from legal M.J. use.  Some guy high on M.J. thought he could fly so he jumped off a building, he couldn't fly. Splat! :(

On the stinky cabbage's Netflix list:

(http://cdn8.openculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/reefer-madness.jpeg)

Oh wait, he'd actually have to have a TV newer than 10 years old.  My bad.

What an ultramaroon.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 26, 2015, 04:18:00 pm
Yes, everyone who smokes pot becomes this according to Uncle Kimchi......

(http://assets.hightimes.com/styles/large/s3/reefer-madness-02.jpg?itok=WXGTkuYj)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 26, 2015, 04:48:21 pm
Yes, everyone who smokes pot becomes this according to Uncle Kimchi......

(http://assets.hightimes.com/styles/large/s3/reefer-madness-02.jpg?itok=WXGTkuYj)

My thought has always been it's a naturally grown (well, some coaxing is involved) substance, much like tobacco.  You could argue that cocaine is, but it has to go through a lot of processing before it gets to the state in which you can snort it as a powder.  Apples and oranges.

Legalize it and tax the smile out of it.  But instead, the Oklahoma AG has seen fit, instead of watching what is going on in Colorado to see the outcome, to sue Colorado for whatever reason.

Pruitt isn't much better than Smoot.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 26, 2015, 06:00:27 pm
My thought has always been it's a naturally grown (well, some coaxing is involved) substance, much like tobacco.  You could argue that cocaine is, but it has to go through a lot of processing before it gets to the state in which you can snort it as a powder.  Apples and oranges.

Legalize it and tax the smile out of it.  But instead, the Oklahoma AG has seen fit, instead of watching what is going on in Colorado to see the outcome, to sue Colorado for whatever reason.

Pruitt isn't much better than Smoot.



Texas Officials Really, Really Want You To Know Sandra Bland Had Marijuana In Her System
But that really, really shouldn't matter.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-officials-really-really-want-you-to-know-sandra-bland-had-marijuana-in-her-system_55b14a0ce4b08f57d5d41d47




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 27, 2015, 08:44:33 am
http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/the-harmful-effects.html   >>> Turns out one joint is like smoking 5 cigs, if M.J. did not alter the brain and get you high no one would use it, the only reason for M.J. is to get high. We have enough problems with alcohol and illegal drug use without adding many more people on our streets  with fried brains from legal M.J. use.  Some guy high on M.J. thought he could fly so he jumped off a building, he couldn't fly. Splat! :(


Never in the history of the planet - all 4.5 billion years - has anyone smoking grass jumped off a building thinking they could fly. 

You are confusing a Mafia hit with the munchies!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 28, 2015, 06:37:39 pm
Quote

Texas Officials Really, Really Want You To Know Sandra Bland Had Marijuana In Her System
But that really, really shouldn't matter.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-officials-really-really-want-you-to-know-sandra-bland-had-marijuana-in-her-system_55b14a0ce4b08f57d5d41d47




....but not so much on who smuggled it into their jail.






At a news conference discussing the preliminary findings of an autopsy following Bland's alleged suicide at the Waller County Jail in Texas last week, officials placed heavy emphasis on marijuana reported to be found in the young woman's system.

Why this emphasis? What does this have to do with widespread demands for accountability around the circumstances of her death? Are we expected to believe the not so subtle insinuation that marijuana use played a part?

How is this still happening? Take a sample of random people in any walk of life in this country at any given moment in time, and you are likely to find marijuana in the system of many of them.

Marijuana has gone mainstream. The majority of Americans want legalization. Four states and the District of Columbia have legal recreational marijuana for adults, and analysts are predicting as much as $11 billion in legal marijuana sales in the next five years. Retirees are skipping Boca for more cannabis-friendly locales to blaze through their golden years.

So, I am sorry, are we really having to hear lurid and cryptic suggestions about how Sandra Bland might have been a marijuana user? Is it not obvious that this is completely irrelevant and a distraction?

Neuroscientist and Columbia University professor, Carl Hart, expertly pointed out the "reefer madness" fallacy of using marijuana found in the toxicology reports for Trayvon Martin to justify his murder two years ago in the New York Times. The science is still the same. Only the name being smeared has changed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sharda-sekaran/sandra-bland-marijuana-smear-is-another-cheap-trick-of-racist-drug-war_b_7866454.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 02, 2015, 07:24:09 pm

D.A.R.E. Published an Op-ed Calling for Marijuana Legalization
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/07/dare-calls-for-marijuana-legalization.html

They were high.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 07, 2015, 01:57:14 pm
Oklahoma City Republican Senator James Lankford wants to take away federal funds from tribes that exercise their right to grow marijuana.

"The Native American community experiences the highest drug induced death rate in the country," obviously referring to the rampant deaths of Indians from smoking marijuana.

http://newsok.com/lankford-aims-to-link-pot-tribes-funds/article/5438717

S.1948, the "Keeping out Illegal Drugs Act" of 2015 (KIDS), bars tribes that cultivate, manufacture or distribute marijuana from receiving federal funds.

Nothing says "Im here to help you" like a big dose of poverty.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 12, 2015, 09:42:43 pm
NYPD Busted Using 'COPS' Clip in Campaign Against 'Weaponized Marijuana'
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/nypd-busted-using-cops-clip-campaign-weaponized-marijuana


The New York Police Department faced criticism on Thursday after it emerged that video clips it used to show the crazed affects of smoking synthetic drugs were of men high on other drugs.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/06/us-new-york-police-marijuana-idUSKCN0QB2HW20150806


The NYPD confirmed on Thursday that the men in the videos, which were previously used in police training, were in fact high on other narcotics.

New York Police Chief of Patrol Carlos Gomez, at a press conference on Thursday, said the videos were meant to show drug users in an "excited delirium syndrome state" which is another made-up police term with no basis in medical science.

The NYPD is frequently deceitful, but rarely is it as hilariously so as it was yesterday, when Commissioner Bill Bratton, during a press conference about the perceived dangers of so-called "synthetic marijuana," showed video he said was of “out-of-state” officers arresting a man under the influence of the drug, but which was actually a dude on PCP pulled from a 2003 episode of COPS.

http://justice.gawker.com/nypd-footage-of-crazy-synthetic-weed-user-was-actually-1722366247



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 16, 2015, 05:33:55 pm
Man Who Was Serving Life In Prison For Marijuana To Be Set Free

Jeff Mizanskey, a 61-year-old Missouri man who was serving life in prison for nonviolent marijuana offenses, will be set free in a matter of days, his attorney confirmed Monday to The Huffington Post.

After two decades in prison, Mizanskey became eligible for parole in May when Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon commuted his life sentence. Parole was an option that Mizanskey did not have previously because he had been sentenced as a "prior and persistent drug offender" under Missouri's three strikes law, which was repealed last year.

All three of Mizanskey's offenses involved marijuana. He was given a life sentence after a conviction for attempting to sell about six pounds of pot in a 1993 police sting operation.

Marijuana offenses, mainly involving simple possession, account for roughly half of all drug-related crimes. According to a recent report from the American Civil Liberties Union, 88 percent of the more than 8 million marijuana arrests between 2001 and 2010 were for possession alone. There were more arrests in the U.S. for marijuana possession in 2011 than for all violent crimes combined, according to the FBI's uniform crime report.

While the U.S. accounts for just 5 percent of the world’s population, it is home to a full 25 percent of the world’s prisoners. Harsh sentences for nonviolent drug possession and distribution crimes are part of the reason that figure is so high. In 1980, there were roughly 40,000 drug offenders in federal and state prisons and jails, according to research from the Sentencing Project, a criminal justice reform group. By 2013, the number of drug offenders behind bars had ballooned to nearly 490,000 -- most of whom were not high-level operators and did not have prior criminal records.

It's difficult to calculate the human toll of all those incarcerations, some of them decades long. But by some national estimates, it costs state and local governments between $10 billion and $20 billion a year just to maintain the prohibition on marijuana.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jeff-mizanskey-marijuana-parole_55c92395e4b0923c12bdf3ae



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 08, 2015, 12:43:01 pm
For the DEA head to be this clueless is nothing short of a scandal:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dea-medical-marijuana-fact-check_563d1148e4b0b24aee4a5c4f


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 09, 2015, 05:57:07 pm
For the DEA head to be this clueless is nothing short of a scandal:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dea-medical-marijuana-fact-check_563d1148e4b0b24aee4a5c4f


You cannot possibly be surprised...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on December 17, 2015, 01:05:26 pm
Obama administration to justices: Reject marijuana lawsuit

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-admin-urges-high-court-reject-marijuana-lawsuit-235240243.html (http://news.yahoo.com/obama-admin-urges-high-court-reject-marijuana-lawsuit-235240243.html)

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) — Despite its opposition to making marijuana use legal, the Obama administration is urging the Supreme Court to reject a lawsuit from Nebraska and Oklahoma that seeks to declare Colorado's pot legalization unconstitutional.

The Justice Department's top courtroom lawyer said in a brief filed Wednesday that the interstate dispute over a measure approved by Colorado voters in 2012 does not belong at the high court.

Nebraska and Oklahoma filed their lawsuit directly with the Supreme Court in December 2014, arguing that Colorado's law allowing recreational marijuana use by adults runs afoul of federal anti-drug laws. States can sue each other in the Supreme Court, a rare instance in which the justices are not hearing appeals of lower court rulings.

The two states complained that Colorado's action has hindered efforts to enforce anti-marijuana laws in their states. They say combatting marijuana that's coming across the border is a drain on their resources.

But Solicitor General Donald Verrilli Jr. said Nebraska and Oklahoma are not alleging that Colorado "has directed or authorized" anyone to transport marijuana across state lines.

"At most, they have alleged that third-party lawbreakers are inflicting those injuries, and that Colorado's legal regime makes it easier for them to do so," Verrilli wrote. Taking up the dispute "would represent a substantial and unwarranted expansion of this court's original jurisdiction."

Verrilli's brief also notes that Colorado only allows people to possess one ounce or less of marijuana. Such small quantities carried across the border don't cause the states "to suffer great loss or any serious injury in terms of law-enforcement funding or other expenditures," Verrilli wrote.

The Obama administration "steadfastly opposes legalization of marijuana," The White House says on its website. But the administration also has said that it would not stand in the way of states that want to legalize, tax and regulate marijuana as long as there are effective controls to keep marijuana away from kids, the black market and federal property. The Justice Department says it simply doesn't have the resources to police all violations of federal marijuana law, and so it will focus on those priorities.

The Drug Policy Alliance, a group that advocates for less restrictive drug laws, praised the administration's move.

"Nebraska and Oklahoma's primary problems are their own punitive policies regarding marijuana use and possession," said Art Way, the group's Colorado state director. "It is not Colorado's fault these states look to spend such a high degree of law enforcement and judicial resources on marijuana prohibition."


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 17, 2015, 01:22:33 pm
For the DEA head to be this clueless is nothing short of a scandal:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dea-medical-marijuana-fact-check_563d1148e4b0b24aee4a5c4f


Further look at the guy shows he is a leftover from the Bush years - council to Ashcroft and Mueller.  Participants in the premise that torture is legal...remember the good ole days..?


http://www.dea.gov/about/leadership.shtml




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 18, 2015, 08:09:44 pm
The guys collecting petition signatures have been at 21st & Harvard all week, in the QT parking lot.

I didnt know there was also a petition to allow Oklahoma to get back to allowing industrial hemp (like clothing etc.) again.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 22, 2015, 01:38:12 pm
This is essentially the end of Oklahoma's lawsuit against Colorado (as far as the SCOTUS is concerned)
http://www.care2.com/causes/the-u-s-goverment-comes-to-colorados-defense-in-legal-pot-lawsuit.html

but lets see how much more tax money the AG throws at it anyway:
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-attorney-general-scott-pruitt-says-obama-administration-wrong-about-colorado-pot-laws/article/5468088

that sure sounds like he's actually suing Obama.   ::)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on January 08, 2016, 12:42:03 pm
Fear not!  AG Pruitt is on the case!

Oklahoma AG Goes to Court to Stop Colorado Pot

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-ag-goes-court-stop-colorado-pot (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-ag-goes-court-stop-colorado-pot)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP)” Oklahoma's attorney general says his state and others are suffering from the export of marijuana from Colorado and wants the U.S. Supreme Court to consider whether Colorado's pot market violates federal law.

Attorney General Scott Pruitt filed a brief Wednesday in the case in which Oklahoma and Nebraska want the nation's highest court to declare Colorado's pot legalization unconstitutional.

The U.S. Department of Justice has argued that Colorado isn't directly responsible for third-party lawbreakers who traffic marijuana and that there's not sufficient reason for the high court to consider the challenge.

Pruitt claims Colorado has created a "massive criminal enterprise" and is actively facilitating the purchase of marijuana by residents of neighboring states.

Pruitt blames President Barack Obama's administration for not enforcing federal drug laws.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 08, 2016, 02:40:06 pm

"Pruitt blames President Barack Obama's administration for  (fill in the blank)"



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 10, 2016, 02:13:53 pm
Exploding Marijuana killing so many people we cant count.

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/dabs-comes-east-coast-media-freaks-out


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 11, 2016, 08:45:14 am
All of this reminds me of my ongoing fight with my kid over his video game habit. No video games until homework is done, plays video games, dad adds filter, kid gets around it, dad adds a firewall, kid crashes firewall, dad takes computer...

But at the end of the day, I know why I have the rule. Without the rule my child will not get his homework done. So the cycle continues.

Uncle Sam keeps treating citizens like children. In opposition to what one might expect, the more "small government" conservative the politician, the more lip service you get to "protecting" the children from themselves and the less likely they are to sit back and examine the underlying rule. All they know is that there is a rule, and some of those pesky little bastards aren't following it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 11, 2016, 01:18:53 pm
Uncle Sam keeps treating citizens like children. In opposition to what one might expect, the more "small government" conservative the politician, the more lip service you get to "protecting" the children from themselves and the less likely they are to sit back and examine the underlying rule. All they know is that there is a rule, and some of those pesky little bastards aren't following it.

All prohibition really protects is the industry created to wage an endless, expensive war we were never intended to win.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on January 11, 2016, 04:47:32 pm
All of this reminds me of my ongoing fight with my kid over his video game habit. No video games until homework is done, plays video games, dad adds filter, kid gets around it, dad adds a firewall, kid crashes firewall, dad takes computer...

But at the end of the day, I know why I have the rule. Without the rule my child will not get his homework done. So the cycle continues.

Uncle Sam keeps treating citizens like children. In opposition to what one might expect, the more "small government" conservative the politician, the more lip service you get to "protecting" the children from themselves and the less likely they are to sit back and examine the underlying rule. All they know is that there is a rule, and some of those pesky little bastards aren't following it.

Give Uncle Sam back his computer.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 22, 2016, 01:15:53 pm
Three of the four marijuana-centered lawsuits filed against Colorado officials and businesses were organized and at least partially funded by out-of-state anti-drug organizations and socially conservative law firms, a Denver Post analysis shows.

Supporters of the law that made the recreational use and sale of marijuana legal in Colorado say the money gives outsized influence to secretive coalitions of drug-rehab professionals, for-profit prison owners and others with a financial stake in keeping pot illegal.


http://www.denverpost.com/marijuana/ci_29391588/who-exactly-is-behind-lawsuits-over-colorados-legal



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 22, 2016, 03:17:31 pm
I still think its great that Oklahoma is suing Colorado claiming that Colorado has to do what the Federal Government tells it to do and can't change Colorado law. Ignoring the misinterpretation of the Supremacy Clause (Federal law definitely still trumps Colorado law, but there isn't an affirmative constitutional right to prevent other people from smoking pot... that's backwards), the basic argument completely undermines every failed (or failing) lawsuit Pruitt has brought to assert Oklahoma's dominance against Uncle Sam.   

Pruitt:  "Hey, you can't do that! We have State's rights and the law of Oklahoma controls above all others!"

Courts:  "The State of Oklahoma is an inseparable part of the Federal Union, and the Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land."

Pruitt:  "BS! Where did you come up with that?"

Courts: "Article 1, Section 1, Oklahoma Constitution (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=84802)."


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 24, 2016, 09:37:57 pm
I still think its great that Oklahoma is suing Colorado claiming that Colorado has to do what the Federal Government tells it to do and can't change Colorado law. Ignoring the misinterpretation of the Supremacy Clause (Federal law definitely still trumps Colorado law, but there isn't an affirmative constitutional right to prevent other people from smoking pot... that's backwards), the basic argument completely undermines every failed (or failing) lawsuit Pruitt has brought to assert Oklahoma's dominance against Uncle Sam.   

Pruitt:  "Hey, you can't do that! We have State's rights and the law of Oklahoma controls above all others!"

Courts:  "The State of Oklahoma is an inseparable part of the Federal Union, and the Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land."

Pruitt:  "BS! Where did you come up with that?"

Courts: "Article 1, Section 1, Oklahoma Constitution (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=84802)."




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormant_Commerce_Clause


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 25, 2016, 08:29:22 am
The dormant commerce clause is a restriction on states hindering trade in other states - it is a free trade requirement. Oklahoma can't put tariffs on Texas goods. It prevents protectionism among the states (or localities therein).

Quote from: The Supreme Court
The central rationale for the rule against discrimination is to prohibit state or municipal laws whose object is local economic protectionism, laws that would excite those jealousies and retaliatory measures the Constitution was designed to prevent.

So our argument is that Colorado making pot legal is unfairly burdening the Oklahoma pot industry? Is our concern that Colorado is requiring Colorado grown pot and discriminating against Oklahoma's black market product? We could probably fix that fairly easily...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 25, 2016, 11:00:42 am
The dormant commerce clause is a restriction on states hindering trade in other states - it is a free trade requirement. Oklahoma can't put tariffs on Texas goods. It prevents protectionism among the states (or localities therein).

So our argument is that Colorado making pot legal is unfairly burdening the Oklahoma pot industry? Is our concern that Colorado is requiring Colorado grown pot and discriminating against Oklahoma's black market product? We could probably fix that fairly easily...

At one time marijuana was Oklahoma's #2 cash crop.  Not sure who keeps tabs now, or how politically driven the numbers might be.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 25, 2016, 12:19:29 pm
At one time marijuana was Oklahoma's #2 cash crop.  Not sure who keeps tabs now, or how politically driven the numbers might be.

Now that legalization is a remote possibility, the powers that be probably want to keep the word "cash" out to not remind people of lost opportunity, want to diminish the word "crop" to disassociate with agriculture, and probably don't want to point how how big the industry could be overall...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 14, 2016, 06:46:12 pm
Now that legalization is a remote possibility, the powers that be probably want to keep the word "cash" out to not remind people of lost opportunity, want to diminish the word "crop" to disassociate with agriculture, and probably don't want to point how how big the industry could be overall...


Why Elizabeth Warren thinks legalizing marijuana could help end America’s opioid addiction crisis


Sen. Elizabeth Warren wants the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to explore the use of medical marijuana as an alternative to the powerful opioid painkillers that kill thousands of people each year.
In a letter to CDC chief Tom Friedan, the Massachusetts Democrat also asks the agency to look into “the impact of the legalization of medical and recreational marijuana on opioid overdose deaths.”

From a public health standpoint, Warren is right. There is a lot of potential here. Here’s a rundown of what the research has shown so far:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/13/why-elizabeth-warren-thinks-legalizing-marijuana-could-help-end-americas-opioid-addiction-crisis




Cops are biggest obstacle to Cannabis oil


Law enforcement officials across Georgia are proving to be the biggest obstacle to a bill that would allow medical cannabis oil to be manufactured and distributed in the state.
“From what we hear, law enforcement is our biggest opponent,” Katie Harrison told The Times last month. Harrison is a Hall County resident who treats her young son with cannabis oil to treat his seizure disorders.
There appear to be enough votes in the House to pass the bill, but pushback from Georgia sheriffs and district attorneys have raised alarm bells in the Senate, as well as in the administration of Gov. Nathan Deal.

Lawmakers approved the use of cannabis oil last year to treat eight medical conditions. The drug is known to have anti-anxiety effects, among other beneficial properties, and strains lack the levels of the psychoactive ingredient THC that gets marijuana smokers high.
But with no manufacturing and distribution of the drug within Georgia, some patients have been forced to break federal law by acquiring the drug out of state and transporting it back, according to advocates.

Advocates also want to expand the list of approved medical conditions that can be treated with the drug.

Medical marijuana was a $1.3 billion industry in California in 2014. And in Colorado, medical and recreational marijuana sales reached nearly $1 billion last year, a 42 percent increase.
Advocates note that sales generated about $135 million in taxes and fees for state and local government coffers to support public safety and education programs.

Many law enforcement officials believe the bill being debated this year in the state legislature would set Georgia on an irreversible path to the emergence of a recreational, big business marijuana industry.
“You’re talking about big money coming into the state,” Hall County Sheriff Gerald Couch said. “It won’t stop there.”

Gainesville Police Chief Carol Martin said it’s important for residents to understand just what the bill promises.
“To dispel rumors, the proposed bill does not allow the general public to cultivate marijuana for recreational use,” she said.

Advocates say strict limits on the number of manufacturers, coupled with guidelines and monitoring for distribution, means no form of marijuana will be available for smoking under the proposed legislation.

Reps. Carl Rogers, Emory Dunahoo and Lee Hawkins, all Gainesville Republicans, said they support the bill.
Rogers said he believes restricting cultivation to one or two sites at the University of Georgia or the Medical College of Georgia will alleviate concerns.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on March 21, 2016, 12:59:50 pm
SCOTUS declined to hear the Oklahoma/Nebraska pot lawsuit against Colorado.

Money and time well spent.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 21, 2016, 02:11:10 pm
There were two dissenting voices... but the dissents were not based on the merits of the case, rather procedural. Ailto and Thomas feel that the Court may not have the authority to refuse to hear a case if Original Jurisdiction is triggered. The majority has long disagreed with this interpretation, which would require the US Supreme Court to hear any and all petitions filed by one state against another. The fear is that the Court becomes a forum for interstate litigation as opposed to a Constitutional Court.

My opinion on that doesn't matter, I just wanted to point out that even the two dissenters did not grant the merit of the case. The other 6 Justices didn't even think it was worth hearing it or writing an opinion.

The dissent:
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/144orig_6479.pdf

Pruitt is gaining fame as the most litigious Attorney general in the United States:

http://www.governing.com/topics/politics/gov-oklahoma-scott-pruit-feature.html

Lets see...

- 10 Commandments case, lost twice, filed for reconsideration after the Supreme Court rules, lost again

- Gay marriage, part of the large case that saw gay marriage legalized nationwide (thanks for that)

- Water rights against Texas, Texas gained the right to actually claim water inside the State of Oklahoma

- ObamaCare challenges, lost those

- numerous tort reform measures thrown out as he defended them

- much of the workers comp reform has been thrown out as he defended them

- three or four losses in suits against the EPA (https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/2014/06/12/court-losses-wont-deter-attorney-general-scott-pruitt-in-his-fight-with-the-epa/)

- Chicken litter lawsuit against Arkansas

- And now his lawsuit against Colorado (which have garnered him the label "fair weather Federalist." Which is a nice way of saying hypocrite).


Millions on frivolous lawsuits, not a penny for education!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 21, 2016, 06:32:36 pm

Pruitt is gaining fame as the most litigious Attorney general in the United States



In addition to wasting taxpayer dollars, the Oklahoma and Nebraska attorneys general are betraying their conservative belief of states’ rights and, if successful, they could have unintended consequences that could harm many conservative policies, such as gun rights. For instance, both Colorado and Oregon require background checks for the private sale of firearms, while Oklahoma doesn’t require any background check on private gun sales while Nebraska doesn’t require a background check on the private sale of long guns. Does Oklahoma and Nebraska want other states to challenge their gun laws, arguing that unlicensed sales easily allow guns to get into the hands of those federally prohibited from legally possessing guns, such as felons and domestic abusers? This is a slippery slope that the attorneys general in Oklahoma and Nebraska need to consider.

http://marijuanapolitics.com/supreme-court-refuses-hear-suit-colorado-nebraska-oklahoma-save-taxpayer-dollars/





"Congress has no power to compel states to prohibit the cultivation, possession and transfer of marijuana," according to Randy Barnett, an attorney who litigated a Supreme Court case exploring the limits of the CSA. "In the absence of such state prohibition, all such activities are completely legal under state law, notwithstanding that they are illegal under federal law," he wrote last year.

In short, Congress can say that marijuana is illegal at the federal level. But if a state doesn't want to enforce that prohibition itself, it doesn't have to do so. And if it wants to go one step further and set up a market to regulate the trade in the drug, it's free to do that as well.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/21/what-todays-supreme-court-decision-means-for-the-future-of-legal-weed/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 12, 2016, 12:45:45 pm
66,000 signatures is well within the number collected the first two times.



Ex-Oklahoma legislator spearheads medical marijuana effort
http://www.koco.com/news/Ex-Oklahoma-legislator-spearheads-medical-marijuana-effort/38971658


A former Democratic state legislator who ran for governor in 2014 is spearheading an effort launched Monday to let voters decide whether to allow medical marijuana in Oklahoma.
    
Former state Rep. Joe Dorman is a board member of the group Oklahomans for Health, which filed an initiative petition with the secretary of state's office to begin gathering signatures to place the proposal on the ballot in November.
    
After a review of the petition is complete, the group will have 90 days to gather about 66,000 signatures from registered voters to get the proposal on the ballot.
    
Dorman said he was motivated in part by his experience working with cancer patients who benefited from using marijuana, but were unable to do so legally.
    
"I want to encourage people to keep an open mind about this proposal," said Dorman, a Democrat from Rush Springs who ran against Gov. Mary Fallin in 2014. "I certainly trust doctors and health care providers to offer the proper medication for treatment over bureaucrats and politicians."
    
In 2014, the same group fell short gathering the 155,000 signatures needed to amend the Oklahoma Constitution to allow for medicinal marijuana, but this time is seeking a statutory change that will require fewer signatures.

If approved by the voters, doctors would be able to recommend a patient at least 25 years old for a state-issued medical marijuana license that would allow them to use marijuana legally and possess up to 3 ounces, six mature plants and six seedlings. The Oklahoma State Department of Health would be responsible for overseeing the licensing of marijuana dispensaries, grow operations and patients.
    
The state tax on marijuana would be 7 percent, with revenues used to fund the regulation of the industry. Additional revenues would be divided with 75 percent going to the state's general revenue fund to pay for general operations and 25 percent earmarked for drug and alcohol rehabilitation.
        
The effort is likely to face resistance from some law enforcement agencies that view medicinal marijuana as a way to allow more access to pot by recreational users.
    
Mark Woodward, a spokesman for the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs, said his agency supports the use of non-intoxicating cannabis oils to treat certain conditions but believes full-blown medicinal marijuana sends the wrong signal to children who are encouraged not to use illegal drugs.
    
More:   https://oklahomansforhealth.com





Hey, Woodward, the whole point of legalization is to not make it illegal any more...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on April 12, 2016, 12:51:32 pm

If approved by the voters, doctors would be able to recommend a patient at least 25 years old for a state-issued medical marijuana license that would allow them to use marijuana legally and possess up to 3 ounces, six mature plants and six seedlings. The Oklahoma State Department of Health would be responsible for overseeing the licensing of marijuana dispensaries, grow operations and patients.
    

While anything is better than nothing...why 25?  The 19 year old with cancer can suck it?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 12, 2016, 01:17:21 pm
While anything is better than nothing...why 25?  The 19 year old with cancer can suck it?

It does seem strange. Presumably it is to keep the devil's weed off college campuses. There's aren't many < 25 year olds in dorms, and you couldn't deny them their prescription.  And, as we all know, without a prescription no one in college would use an illegal intoxicating substance.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: davideinstein on April 12, 2016, 03:49:07 pm
If anyone wants to make money on an obvious policy reversal then TRTC is a good stock.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on April 12, 2016, 06:51:50 pm
Now that legalization is a remote possibility, the powers that be probably want to keep the word "cash" out to not remind people of lost opportunity, want to diminish the word "crop" to disassociate with agriculture, and probably don't want to point how how big the industry could be overall...


What would a traffic stop be without the ability to say "I smell marijuana so now I can do anything I want" ?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 13, 2016, 09:14:43 am

What would a traffic stop be without the ability to say "I smell marijuana so now I can do anything I want" ?


I have spoken with several police officers, who I consider good friends, who have made this exact point. They'd be fine if pot was legal, they don't really see a danger and it usually isn't worth their time dealing with it. But it is an easy gateway to bust people for other things. Not all pot users are into more dangerous things, but almost everyone who is into more dangerous things is a pot user...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cynical on April 13, 2016, 06:06:40 pm
There's another reason law enforcement will resist legalization of marijuana that is related. Coming in from Arkansas this afternoon about 5:00 I passed two Rogers Co. Sheriff cars who had pulled over a nice red Mercedes and were busy conducting a search of the trunk. Assuming they find something there, the car is a nice prize.

I have spoken with several police officers, who I consider good friends, who have made this exact point. They'd be fine if pot was legal, they don't really see a danger and it usually isn't worth their time dealing with it. But it is an easy gateway to bust people for other things. Not all pot users are into more dangerous things, but almost everyone who is into more dangerous things is a pot user...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 14, 2016, 10:12:53 am
There's another reason law enforcement will resist legalization of marijuana that is related. Coming in from Arkansas this afternoon about 5:00 I passed two Rogers Co. Sheriff cars who had pulled over a nice red Mercedes and were busy conducting a search of the trunk. Assuming they find something there, the car is a nice prize.


All they have to do is find cash, and label it “possession of drug proceeds.”

http://www.cato.org/blog/oklahoma-sheriff-indicted-extortion-blames-civil-forfeiture-reformers


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on April 14, 2016, 11:06:14 am
All they have to do is find cash, and label it “possession of drug proceeds.”

http://www.cato.org/blog/oklahoma-sheriff-indicted-extortion-blames-civil-forfeiture-reformers

Smear a little bacon grease on the money so the dog will hit on it?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on April 14, 2016, 11:39:41 am
Smear a little bacon grease on the money so the dog will hit on it?

Just takes a hand signal...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 14, 2016, 08:46:18 pm
Just takes a hand signal...


"Just before the dog alerts, you can hear a change in the tone of the handler's voice. That's troubling. I don't know anything about this particular handler, but that's often an indication of a handler that's cuing a response." In other words, it's indicative of a handler instructing the dog to alert, not waiting to see whether the dog will alert.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/31/drug-search-trekies-stopped-searched-illinois_n_1364087.html

It can be any combination of hand or vocal cues.  Yes, drug dogs have "back doors" ;-)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 15, 2016, 08:27:46 am
This may come as a shock... but drug dogs aren't always that effective. Many are just "trick ponies" to be able to search more. Some have many more false positives than accurate finds. A study in Illinois found that drug dogs alerts only actually found drugs 27% of the time (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-06/news/ct-met-canine-officers-20110105_1_drug-sniffing-dogs-alex-rothacker-drug-dog).

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has ruled that as long as a dog has a piece of paper saying it is a certified drug dog, it is infallible. Even if the defense can prove that the department knew the dog had more false positives than actual finds (in training records), it doesn't matter. As long as the dog gives a signal known to its handler as a positive signal, there is probably cause for a search. There are plenty of videos of police working real hard to get their dog to give a cue and immediately rewarding a cue (before confirming a positive, teaching the dog false cues are as good as real ones).

So why in the hell would a department want a well trained dog? Just get one that hits on everything and you can search whatever you want. Some departments have a great method for tracking the success of their dogs in the field: if a dog has a positive find you record it, if a dog hits a false positive there is no procedure for logging it. PERFECTION!

(I should add I have NO knowledge of how well TPD or TCSO dogs do. Some departments have very tough standards, others...not so much)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 01, 2016, 01:40:25 pm
Walgreens, the largest drug retailing chain in the U.S. with more than 8,000 stores in all 50 states, is now tackling the subject of medical marijuana. Right above a recipe for “all natural fruit roll-ups” on Walgreens’ Tumblr is the headline: “What is medical marijuana?” And its tone is surprisingly sane and straightforward, especially for one of the largest pharmacies in the world.

Well its about time someone got serious about fruit roll-ups.
http://www.thecannabist.co/2016/04/28/walgreens-medical-marijuana/52931/







http://www.marketwatch.com/story/walgreens-wants-to-talk-weed-2016-04-29

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/walgreens-medical-marijuana_us_5724dcabe4b0f309baf107c7




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on May 01, 2016, 03:29:49 pm

Pretty sure when I was in Vegas in January, the Walgreen's on Fremont street had a big green cross outside.   

Of course, I couldn't verify marijuana sales, but that's what the green cross meant in Colorado when I was last there, it may mean something different in Las Vegas.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on May 01, 2016, 03:44:33 pm
The green cross is a European symbol indicating a pharmacy. Fremont Street has many international visitors.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 10, 2016, 02:16:00 pm
AAA Finds No Basis for Equating THC Blood Levels With Driver Impairment
http://reason.com/blog/2016/05/10/aaa-finds-no-basis-for-equating-thc-leve



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 27, 2016, 10:20:51 am
Decriminalization is winning the War on Drugs

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/26/federal-marijuana-smuggling-is-declining-in-the-era-of-legal-weed/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 05, 2016, 11:48:23 pm
One of the kids went to WA state last week and visited a marijuana store.  Sounded like a great adventure!!   I gotta come up with an excuse to get the boss to send me to WA !!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on June 06, 2016, 08:28:03 am
One of the kids went to WA state last week and visited a marijuana store.  Sounded like a great adventure!!   I gotta come up with an excuse to get the boss to send me to WA !!

Going to CO Thursday for a few days hiking and camping.   I'm going to have a look at the stores there as well.  Should be interesting.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 07, 2016, 12:33:30 pm
Going to CO Thursday for a few days hiking and camping.   I'm going to have a look at the stores there as well.  Should be interesting.

Be careful if you stand too close to a local.   If you are in an accident weeks after you get back to Oklahoma, metabolites could still be in your blood or hair and you might go to jail.  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 07, 2016, 02:05:25 pm
Be careful if you stand too close to a local.   If you are in an accident weeks after you get back to Oklahoma, metabolites could still be in your blood or hair and you might go to jail.  ;D

Or at the very least they will seize that brick of $100 bills under your seat.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on June 07, 2016, 02:45:14 pm
Or at the very least they will seize that brick of $100 bills under your seat.

Well I'm flying back, so I think it's the airport dogs I'll have to avoid...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on June 07, 2016, 03:17:28 pm
Well I'm flying back, so I think it's the airport dogs I'll have to avoid...



Be sure to tip your gloved TSA agent.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 08, 2016, 12:22:25 pm
Be sure to tip your gloved TSA agent.


Depends on the lubricating liquid they use....




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on June 08, 2016, 01:22:32 pm
Be sure to tip your gloved TSA agent.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/dc/e4/b6/dce4b626ed653f48c76209fb05768cde.jpg)

For any Archer fans out there...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 08, 2016, 05:19:39 pm
COLUMBUS - Gov. John Kasich signed a plan to legalize medical marijuana into law Wednesday, making Ohio the 25th state to approve its use.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/08/john-kasich-just-legalized-medical-marijuana-ohio-now-what/85499176/







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 12, 2016, 06:27:33 pm
This may come as a shock... but drug dogs aren't always that effective. Many are just "trick ponies" to be able to search more. Some have many more false positives than accurate finds. A study in Illinois found that drug dogs alerts only actually found drugs 27% of the time (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-06/news/ct-met-canine-officers-20110105_1_drug-sniffing-dogs-alex-rothacker-drug-dog).

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has ruled that as long as a dog has a piece of paper saying it is a certified drug dog, it is infallible. Even if the defense can prove that the department knew the dog had more false positives than actual finds (in training records), it doesn't matter. As long as the dog gives a signal known to its handler as a positive signal, there is probably cause for a search. There are plenty of videos of police working real hard to get their dog to give a cue and immediately rewarding a cue (before confirming a positive, teaching the dog false cues are as good as real ones).

So why in the hell would a department want a well trained dog? Just get one that hits on everything and you can search whatever you want. Some departments have a great method for tracking the success of their dogs in the field: if a dog has a positive find you record it, if a dog hits a false positive there is no procedure for logging it. PERFECTION!


A group calling themselves the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area suggests the legalization of marijuana has made the drug more attractive for out-of-state smuggling. But one federal report says HIDTA are questionable.
The United States Sentencing Commission said in a recent report that national marijuana trafficking offenses have fallen since Colorado and Washington residents voted to legalize the drug in 2012.

The data conflicts with HIDTA's notion that marijuana trafficking from Colorado is an increasing problem. Its latest report says law enforcement agencies from surrounding states made 360 seizures of the drug in 2014 - compared to an average of 242 from 2009 to 2012. The 2014 seizures occurred in 36 states - with Kansas (37), Missouri (37), Illinois (31), Oklahoma (19) and Florida (19) the most common destinations.

"There are anti-marijuana officials in surrounding states who say they're spending more time trying to find marijuana, so it'd be no surprise if they are finding more," said Mason Tvert, a spokesman for the Marijuana Policy Project, the country's largest organization that focuses on marijuana policy reform. "But there's no actual evidence there are any changes. The evidence suggest there's been some decrease in illegal trafficking."


http://gazette.com/colorado-marijuana-increasingly-finding-its-way-to-florida/article/1578049


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 27, 2016, 02:56:47 pm
In addition to epilepsy, cannabinoids (or marijuana itself) have demonstrated positive effects on type 2 diabetes, ulcerative colitis, cancer, and more than a dozen other ailments.
These promising studies have given hope that the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) may reclassify marijuana sometime soon.

That time could be coming sooner than you think.

Sometime within the next couple of weeks, the U.S DEA is expected to rule on whether or not it will reschedule marijuana away from its current schedule 1 classification. If the regulatory agency were to reclassify marijuana as anything other than a schedule 1 substance, then medical marijuana would immediately become legal throughout the U.S., thus opening the door for medical marijuana businesses to prosper.


http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/06/25/arguably-the-most-important-marijuana-decision-eve.aspx



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 28, 2016, 09:55:22 am
It has been way too long a wait.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 30, 2016, 12:13:26 pm
It has been way too long a wait.

But never too late to stir up some last-minute hysteria.



Apparently some officials thought a home marijuana testing kit would be good for testing a municipal water supply.  They must have been high.

"That would be like if Cypress Hill’s tour bus drove off a cliff, rolled through a Willie Nelson concert, and capsized Rick Steves’ kayak before nose diving into the town well."

http://www.wired.com/2016/07/take-lot-thc-contaminate-water-supply





But field testing kits are notorious for leaning towards false positives:



A man’s love of doughnuts got him arrested, strip-searched and tossed in jail for 10 hours after officers mistook several crumbs of icing for crystal methamphetamine.
Dan Rushing, 64, said he’s now considering legal action after the fateful traffic stop.

When he pulled out his identification, Officer Riggs-Hopkins noticed his concealed firearm permit and asked for permission to search his car, according to the report.
“I didn’t have anything to hide,” he said in an interview with WFTV. Now “I’ll never let anyone search my car again.”

The officers found “in plain view a rock like substance on the floor board where his feet were. I recognized, through my 11 years of training and experience as a law enforcement officer, the substance to be some sort of narcotic.”

Riggs-Hopkins wrote in the report that police performed two field tests on the “rock like substance” and that it tested positive for narcotics both times.

http://kfor.com/2016/07/28/no-its-meth-cops-mistook-krispy-kreme-doughnut-crumbs-for-drugs-man-says/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 30, 2016, 01:03:06 pm
All that great training....wasted on that idiot.


But now I gotta a new supplier!!  Haven't been to Krispy Kreme in many years - now that they have drugs, I may have to go back!  I have been going to Dunkin' Donuts most recently and while extremely pleasant, I have gotten nothing more than a nice sugar buzz out of any of them!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 15, 2016, 12:11:21 pm
It seems the petition gathering went a lot smoother in Tulsa than OKC.


NORMAN, Okla. – Oklahoma City medical marijuana activist Anthony Kimble was arrested outside the Oklahoma City VA shortly after lunch Tuesday during a  signature-gathering event by activists petitioning to get a medical marijuana state question on the ballot in November. Witnesses described an Oklahoma City officer pulling up to the VA and immediately arresting Kimble while he stood on the sidewalk, a not particularly criminal activity.

Medical marijuana petitioner and Oklahomans for Health co-founder/co-chairman Frank Grove believes this to be nothing more than an escalation of the harassment and intimidation many medical marijuana petitioners have encountered during the past several months gathering signatures.

Frank, co-founder/co-chairman of Oklahomans for Health, an organization dedicated to putting a medical marijuana state question on the ballot, is the first to say how supportive many police officers have been of their First Amendment right to gather signatures, but notes that a continuous stream of harassment by a few officers is hindering their operations significantly. Frank spoke to Red Dirt Report about three instances of harassment in particular that stand out.

The first incident Frank mentioned was what happened at a permanent signature-gathering site that volunteers established in late June. This was a 24/7 site, set up NW Expressway and Meridian public easement, with petitioners gathering signatures from 6 a.m. to 2 a.m. every single day.

Tents were set up, along with solar panels for electronics, and the volunteers depended on the surrounding community for material support, which was provided. 

During the first 20 days of operations at the site, relations with the Oklahoma City police were agreeable, and the officers sided with the petitioners and the First Amendment if an issue ever arose.

This all changed after 20 days, when a deputy called William Jones, one of the organizers working at the site, and informed him that the petitioners would face massive fines if they didn’t leave. The deputy also made it clear that other signature-gathering sites would experience an increase in harassment if the petitioners didn’t pack up and leave.

That same day, employees of the state placed signs at the site that indicated a curfew was now in place, and an officer was sent to take pictures of signers, volunteers, as well as their license plates and the inside of cars owned by the petitioners. This clearly had the intimidation effect that the police were looking for, with petition-signers being almost too fearful to get out of their vehicle and approach the petitioners.

The same officer returned the next day to inform the petitioners that he was just doing his job, which implied that he was carrying out orders from higher-up to intimidate petitioners for engaging in a peaceful, First Amendment-protected activity.

The second incident occurred at the OKC courthouse. A volunteer, sitting on a bench with a sign and clipboard, was approached by an Oklahoma County sheriff who was quoted as saying that he “was tired of stoners thinking you can do whatever you want,” and immediately threatened the volunteer with arrest for trespassing.

The sheriff then brought three more officers to surround the volunteer when the volunteer didn’t back down. Chad Moody, known as “The Drug Lawyer,” a vocal proponent of marijuana legalization and an Oklahoma City-based attorney, witnessed the entire incident.

Moody called for a meeting with the District Attorney and determined that the sheriff’s actions were unconstitutional. Despite that outcome, Frank notes that they lost almost an entire day of signature-gathering, precious time considering the short, 90-day window they have to gather signatures.

The third incident occurred on a public easement in Moore, where city code enforcers harassed petitioners during the last week of July. The enforcers demanded that the volunteers first get a permit before setting up operations.

The volunteers did obtain a permit to satisfy the enforcers, but Moore city councilman Adam Webb discovered what had happened and was angered that the volunteers were shut down illegally. Webb signed the petition and made the enforcers apologize to the volunteers in person for violating their First Amendment rights.

Frank, a Tulsa native who holds a master’s degree in computer science from the University of Tulsa, is undaunted by the intimidation. He believes that the OKC metro supports medical marijuana legalization by a wide margin, as well as most police officers.

He also understands that the short, 90-day window to gather signatures means that he doesn’t have time to fret about police intimidation. The goal is to reach the necessary number of signatures by Aug. 11.  Sheriffs and city officials might be an annoyance to someone like Frank, but they’ll never become an insurmountable obstacle for someone as passionate as he is about getting medical marijuana in the hands of Oklahomans whose lives may depend on it.


http://www.reddirtreport.com/prairie-opinions/pharmaceutical-companies-police-unions-private-prisons-wage-well-funded-campaign





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 15, 2016, 12:37:50 pm
Just sooooo much ignorance in this state!   Just the way Mary Failin' and her Crony Clown Show want it.  And are pushing it....





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 15, 2016, 06:51:45 pm
Just sooooo much ignorance in this state!   Just the way Mary Failin' and her Crony Clown Show want it.  And are pushing it....


Our union lackey DA wants to keep simple marijuana posession a felony.  Why so far behind the times?  Because a full jail is a proffitable one?


Tulsa County DA opposes state questions on justice reform
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/tulsa-county-da-opposes-state-questions-on-justice-reform/article_53c9ee69-03ab-56d4-b1e7-cbdec74f2fe3.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 17, 2016, 09:29:09 am
https://sfbay.ca/2016/08/16/court-protects-medical-pot-users-from-prosecution/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 24, 2016, 08:50:30 am
An initiative petition to let Oklahomans vote on whether to legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes has enough signatures to potentially get on the ballot, Oklahoma Secretary of State Chris Benge announced Tuesday.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-medical-marijuana-petition-gets-enough-signatures-to-be-examined-for-ballot/article/5515108


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 24, 2016, 09:47:38 am
I heard this on KRMG this morning. The host was laughing at it because in California the most common diagnosis for marijuana Rx is "depression or anxiety." I wondered if he laughs at the ~40,000,000 Americans on other prescription medication for anxiety or depression. Or the tens of millions more who go home and drink every day, or, for that matter, smoke up while it is still illegal.

Not that marijuana is a cure-all, but neither is Zoloft. Or...

Asendin (amoxapine)

Aventyl HCI (nortriptyline)

Brintellix (vortioxetine)

Celexa (citalopram)

Cymbalta (duloxetine)

Desyrel (trazodone)

Effexor XR (venlafaxine)

Emsam (selegiline)

Etrafon (perphenazine and amitriptyline)

Elavil (amitriptyline)

Endep (amitriptyline)

Fetzima (levomilnacipran)

Khedezla (desvenlafaxine)

Latuda (lurasidone)

Lamictal (lamotrigine)

Lexapro (escitalopram)

Limbitrol (amitriptyline and chlordiazepoxide)

Marplan (isocarboxazid)

Nardil (phenelzine)

Norpramin (desipramine)

Oleptro (trazodone)

Pamelor (nortriptyline)

Parnate (tranylcypromine)

Paxil (paroxetine)

Pexeva (paroxetine)

Prozac (fluoxetine)

Pristiq (desvenlafaxine)

Remeron (mirtazapine)

Sarafem (fluoxetine)

Seroquel XR (quetiapine)

Serzone (nefazodone)

Sinequan (doxepin)

Surmontil (trimipramine)

Symbyax (fluoxetine and the atypical antipsychotic drug olanzapine)

Tofranil (imipramine)

Triavil (perphenazine and amitriptyline)

Viibryd (vilazodone)

Vivactil (protriptyline)

Wellbutrin (bupropion)

Zyprexa (olanzapine)




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 24, 2016, 10:24:36 am
I heard this on KRMG this morning. The host was laughing at it because in California the most common diagnosis for marijuana Rx is "depression or anxiety." I wondered if he laughs at the ~40,000,000 Americans on other prescription medication for anxiety or depression. Or the tens of millions more who go home and drink every day, or, for that matter, smoke up while it is still illegal.

Not that marijuana is a cure-all, but neither is Zoloft. Or...




No he wouldn't laugh at them - the pharms and their addicts are a direct part of the corporate structure that supports and funds his right wing agenda nationwide.


It's KRMG....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on August 25, 2016, 11:02:34 am
The largest increase in suicides in America is white men over 50 to 64. Up 30% in the last decade. That's the first retirements of the Boomers. We get pushed out of our jobs, watch in amazement how the country suffers from the loss in wisdom and institutional learning, lose our friends and have difficulty in finding purpose. That's nearly 3.1% of the population checking out. The one thing left they can control. Higher risk of suicide than homicide. 1300 per 100,000 if memory serves (lose a fair amount of that too!) Strangely, there is a high correlation between the geographic altitude and the suicide rate. Its higher where they get high!

At any rate, if it helps you get through the day, make it legal.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 08, 2016, 02:37:39 pm
Who's kidding who, let's come clean and admit the real reason for medical MJ is to get a foot in the door to make all MJ legal for R&R use...  MJ is a gateway drug to harder stuff. We have enough screwy people around on our streets with the current crop of  illegal drugs, alcohol and the like, do we really want to add to that number by having legalized MJ. I never seen a group of people work so hard to make MJ legal for medical reasons as do the pro-MJ crowd. They don't work to make other banned drugs legal that may help in some diseases, they only care about MJ and focus on making MJ legal. Think about that. Some of the young people going around with pro- MJ petitions for voters to sign look like they are really concerned about the elderly and sick who need MJ. Sure. They have an agenda to push. I'm against making MJ legal for any reason. I will say a lot of our drug laws and money seizure laws are wrong and way out control we do need changes there.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 08, 2016, 02:45:25 pm
COLUMBUS - Gov. John Kasich signed a plan to legalize medical marijuana into law Wednesday, making Ohio the 25th state to approve its use.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/08/john-kasich-just-legalized-medical-marijuana-ohio-now-what/85499176/






Yep, and watch how long it takes till they start pushing to make MJ Legal for R&R use, they got one foot in the door. This will cause a lot abuse of MJ and prescriptions. In Colorado and other states that made MJ legal traffic death rates went up, and I'd bet work place accidents followed. I can just see some warehouse forklift driver who used MJ... In drug testing MJ can be detected in the body 6 weeks after it was last used, so if you have a job and get drug tested and used MJ in the last month your likely to come up + Glad I moved out of that crazy state.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 08, 2016, 02:51:32 pm
There's another reason law enforcement will resist legalization of marijuana that is related. Coming in from Arkansas this afternoon about 5:00 I passed two Rogers Co. Sheriff cars who had pulled over a nice red Mercedes and were busy conducting a search of the trunk. Assuming they find something there, the car is a nice prize.

Yep those seizure laws need changing, however things can be seized with or without any illegal drugs- a wad of cash is evidence  enough for seizure. People have been putting large sums of cash on those cards and that is why the OHP is scanning those cards to seize the money, and it's not only in Oklahoma other states use card scanners too.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on September 08, 2016, 04:06:38 pm
Who's kidding who, let's come clean and admit the real reason for medical MJ is to get a foot in the door to make all MJ legal for R&R use...  MJ is a gateway drug to harder stuff. We have enough screwy people around on our streets with the current crop of  illegal drugs, alcohol and the like, do we really want to add to that number by having legalized MJ. I never seen a group of people work so hard to make MJ legal for medical reasons as do the pro-MJ crowd. They don't work to make other banned drugs legal that may help in some diseases, they only care about MJ and focus on making MJ legal. Think about that. Some of the young people going around with pro- MJ petitions for voters to sign look like they are really concerned about the elderly and sick who need MJ. Sure. They have an agenda to push. I'm against making MJ legal for any reason. I will say a lot of our drug laws and money seizure laws are wrong and way out control we do need changes there.

Uncle Kimchi at it again...you must have been dropped on your head more than once when a baby.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 08, 2016, 05:02:59 pm
Who's kidding who, let's come clean and admit the real reason for medical MJ is to get a foot in the door to make all MJ legal for R&R use...  MJ is a gateway drug to harder stuff. We have enough screwy people around on our streets with the current crop of  illegal drugs, alcohol and the like, do we really want to add to that number by having legalized MJ. I never seen a group of people work so hard to make MJ legal for medical reasons as do the pro-MJ crowd. They don't work to make other banned drugs legal that may help in some diseases, they only care about MJ and focus on making MJ legal. Think about that. Some of the young people going around with pro- MJ petitions for voters to sign look like they are really concerned about the elderly and sick who need MJ. Sure. They have an agenda to push. I'm against making MJ legal for any reason. I will say a lot of our drug laws and money seizure laws are wrong and way out control we do need changes there.


And how many shots of whiskey did you do today?? 


Your wrongheadedness, along with the many hundreds of thousands of other Okies just like you, is the biggest single reason this state has slid so badly in all the "quality of life" issues facing the state.  You really should move elsewhere and take most of those other minions with you.  At long last, then this state may have a chance of emerging from the intellectually bankrupt mental dark ages we have been bogged down in for so long!


P.S.  This is mostly written for everyone else, since I know there isn't a glimmer of hope you will ever understand.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 08, 2016, 05:58:00 pm
Who's kidding who, let's come clean and admit the real reason for medical MJ is to get a foot in the door to make all MJ legal for R&R use...  MJ is a gateway drug to harder stuff. We have enough screwy people around on our streets with the current crop of  illegal drugs, alcohol and the like, do we really want to add to that number by having legalized MJ. I never seen a group of people work so hard to make MJ legal for medical reasons as do the pro-MJ crowd. They don't work to make other banned drugs legal that may help in some diseases, they only care about MJ and focus on making MJ legal. Think about that. Some of the young people going around with pro- MJ petitions for voters to sign look like they are really concerned about the elderly and sick who need MJ. Sure. They have an agenda to push. I'm against making MJ legal for any reason. I will say a lot of our drug laws and money seizure laws are wrong and way out control we do need changes there.

(http://www.viralthread.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/giphy-3-1.gif)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 08, 2016, 06:37:23 pm
That's great, dbacks....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 08, 2016, 06:47:51 pm
That's great, dbacks....


Been saving that one.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: godboko71 on September 08, 2016, 11:33:18 pm
Who's kidding who, let's come clean and admit the real reason for medical MJ is to get a foot in the door to make all MJ legal for R&R use... 

Just no...

http://www.news9.com/story/27371187/oklahoma-families-move-to-colorado-to-get-medical-marijuana-for-their-children

So helping children with seizures is the reason for medical marijuana. One of many reasons, none of which have to do with getting high.

MJ is a gateway drug to harder stuff.

Correlation does not imply causation.

(http://www.viralthread.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/giphy-3-1.gif)

Good one!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 09, 2016, 09:23:53 am
A friend of mine has endured chronic neck pain for years and has now had four surgeries.  As a result, he’s pretty much opiod-resistant and he has a flat out allergy to some common pain killers.  There are a lot of people like him who can benefit from pain mitigation with cannabis.  It’s a much safer alternative to traditional pain killers.  To my knowledge, I do not believe there is evidence of anyone dying from a pot overdose, unlike alcohol or opioids.  There is very good scientific evidence supporting the medical benefits of pot.

The main reason it is still being demonized is outright exaggerations and complete ignorance for political expediency and to protect the pharmaceutical cabal.

Legalizing it for recreational use doesn’t create any more of an environment for new users than alcohol being legal.  You can choose to partake or not.  One thing which is known is while there can be a mental dependency on pot, users do not develop physical dependency like they do on opiods or alcohol.

From an economic stand-point I’m willing to put money on it that busting and prosecuting users and petty dealers over the years has cost taxpayers billions, if not trillions. Bringing it out of the shadows and turning it into a taxable industry has provided opportunities for entrepreneurship, employment, and new tax revenue not unlike the boom in microbreweries yet no one thinks twice about all the extra beer floating around on the market.

Certainly there can be drawbacks, real or imagined:

http://fortune.com/pot-marijuana-colorado/

Even if it were legalized here, I would not partake for recreational purposes, I don’t feel the need.  If I did think I needed it for a medicinal purpose, I’d love to have that option available.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 10, 2016, 09:04:03 am

The main reason it is still being demonized is outright exaggerations and complete ignorance for political expediency and to protect the pharmaceutical cabal.


That, and the "I smell Marijuana" gateway.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 10, 2016, 10:29:00 am

And how many shots of whiskey did you do today??  


Your wrongheadedness, along with the many hundreds of thousands of other Okies just like you, is the biggest single reason this state has slid so badly in all the "quality of life" issues facing the state.  You really should move elsewhere and take most of those other minions with you.  At long last, then this state may have a chance of emerging from the intellectually bankrupt mental dark ages we have been bogged down in for so long!


P.S.  This is mostly written for everyone else, since I know there isn't a glimmer of hope you will ever understand.



I'm glad I left Ohio with legalized medical MJ Ohio  they got a foot in the door for making all  MJ legal for R&R use. Let's see how long it takes to make R&R MJ legal in Ohio. Intellectually having more people on the streets with altered or fried brains  is dumb. Think of the work place, fork lift drivers on MJ..  Don't we have enough problems with  illegal drugs, and alcohol  and they want to add to that number by making MJ legal. First it's medical MJ then with a foot in the door it's R&R MJ use. Much of the violence on our streets is the result of people high on some drug. MJ is a stepping stone to harder drugs. I'm against legalized MJ. The  "Quality Of Life" in Oklahoma and Tulsa is fine it's what you make of it. The RiverParks offers miles of jogging trails, the low cost of living, mild climate, shops & museums make Oklahoma a fine place to raise a family and live. BTW Oklahoma has some the cheapest gasoline prices in the nation.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on September 10, 2016, 10:45:25 am
We all know you have a point as you've made it repeatably. Please put your hat back on.

For those slow learners in the back of the classroom, let's review. Marijuana is a Schedule 1 drug just like heroin and cocaine. That means our government has decided - despite any evidence - it has no medical uses. Therefore, research on it is prohibited. The late unlamented Richard Nixon was responsible for this.

Anecdotes are not data, of course, but anecdotal experiences may be indicative of possible medical use. Without rescheduling we may never know.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 10, 2016, 01:02:46 pm
Stop making sense, Ed. Its upsetting to those whose realities are challenged without the use of weed.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on September 10, 2016, 07:44:43 pm
Most people learn through repetition. Well, that and having their noses rubbed in their mistakes. And most of us experience learning curves rather than learning flat lines.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 12, 2016, 11:28:00 am

Intellectually having more people on the streets with altered or fried brains  is dumb.


Think of the work place, fork lift drivers on MJ..  Don't we have enough problems with  illegal drugs, and alcohol  and they want to add to that number by making MJ legal. First it's medical MJ then with a foot in the door it's R&R MJ use. Much of the violence on our streets is the result of people high on some drug. MJ is a stepping stone to harder drugs. I'm against legalized MJ. The  "Quality Of Life" in Oklahoma and Tulsa is fine it's what you make of it. The RiverParks offers miles of jogging trails, the low cost of living, mild climate, shops & museums make Oklahoma a fine place to raise a family and live. BTW Oklahoma has some the cheapest gasoline prices in the nation.




So, stay off the streets!!


And as always, most of this is for others, since you appear to have such limited capability to grasp simple concepts....  Tobacco and alcohol are the biggest "stepping stone" - gateway drugs - to other drugs.  (I'm betting you are a smoker, too.)  National Institutes of Health says that people who use marijuana are most likely NOT to move on to harder drugs.  

Marijuana as Gateway Drug - The Myth that Will Not Die...  It is a gateway drug in exactly the same way that people move to harder drugs have also tried chocolate.  Or swallowed their own spit....  It is only the ignorant and feeble minded or companies who stand to lose billions from expensive drugs that really don't do what they should, or what we need, who won't investigate past the Faux News, RWRE, DuPont, and Richard Nixon intellectual cesspools, who still believe all that nonsense.  Which are you?  Drug company lackey??

As for your inane, trite, repetitious, and wrong comparative example.... well, geez.... Really??  You don't want marijuana users driving forklifts?  Why not?  Would they drive too slow for ya??  Typical Faux News garbage argument.  Watch some PBS and listen to some NPR!!  It might start a de-tox process of your system....  Nobody wants forklift drivers, or any other job related activity to be performed by an impaired person.  But yet, the incidence of impairment is vastly higher with alcohol and tobacco than ever has been or will be by marijuana users.  Think dangerous actions with alcohol, and massive losses in productivity by smokers (you have all seen and worked with the 2 - 3 hours per day 'smoke break' people...)

Violence - yep, MOST of it is drug related.  NONE of it by marijuana users - they are all way too mellow and smiley-faced (meaning "sh$t-eatin' grin!) to be violent.  It's ALL caused by the prohibition, which, as we have proven repeatedly, does NOT stop undesirable activity, but indeed increases it and creates opportunity for high profits and massive criminal organizations to thrive.  Which we see now, just as we saw with alcohol during it's prohibition term.

Conflating marijuana use with "Much of the violence on our streets is the result of people high on some drug" - your quote - is an ignorant, extremist, feeble attempt at an analogy.  Again, wrong.  


"BTW Oklahoma has some the cheapest gasoline prices in the nation."
Your quote.  And the nation as a whole has some of the cheapest gas prices in many years.  No thanks to Mary Failin'....




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 13, 2016, 03:45:53 pm
Ok- people on the streets or driving with scrambled brains is fine. It's great to be mellowed out on MJ. We don't have any alcohol or illegal drug problems. Why not legalize a brain scrambling drug. Never mind that MJ users go on to harder drugs. :-\


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 13, 2016, 04:55:00 pm


 Never mind that MJ users go on to harder drugs. :-\




You just can't help passing on the Faux News and vested interest lies, can you?   When you have been informed, yet choose to continue, that makes YOU a liar!  So, now we know exactly where you are coming from.  And gives a little more insight into the hollowness of past professions of faith of like minded people to yourself, since you are breaking at least 10% of the 10 Commandments...the one about bearing false witness.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 13, 2016, 05:20:09 pm
Ok- people on the streets or driving with scrambled brains is fine. It's great to be mellowed out on MJ. We don't have any alcohol or illegal drug problems. Why not legalize a brain scrambling drug. Never mind that MJ users go on to harder drugs. :-\

It's sad when a broken clock is right more than you are.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 13, 2016, 05:21:09 pm
I am much more likely to believe University of Pittsburgh Medical Center and Rutgers University over any anti-mj type uneducated, lying "hick from the sticks"....this means everyone in this state who keeps pushing the RWRE agenda of prohibition.  Not a study of benefits, just tracking to look for adverse items.  None occurred.   As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be - no VALID reason for marijuana prohibition.


http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/13/findings-from-a-long-term-study-on-marijuana-use-u.aspx



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on September 14, 2016, 02:40:10 pm
Marijuana is the gateway to heroin in the same way that those who are known to drink water eventually die. It's the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. One event preceded the other, but that doesn't  mean the first event caused the subsequent one.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 14, 2016, 04:09:01 pm
Marijuana is the gateway to heroin in the same way that those who are known to drink water eventually die. It's the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. One event preceded the other, but that doesn't  mean the first event caused the subsequent one.

Its all because legalizing liquor legalized drunk driving.  Same logic.  >:(

I couldnt begin to count how many people are trying to get out from under the fog of their doctor-prescribed opioids in exchange for a non-intoxicating CBD extract.   Maybe its a reverse-gateway?

While were talking impaired, what was Attorney General Pruitt high on when he thought he could re-write the initiative petition by which the people of Oklahoma made their voices heard?   But hey, the ten commandments will be on the ballot for November.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on September 14, 2016, 04:37:42 pm
Marijuana is the gateway to heroin in the same way that those who are known to drink water eventually die. It's the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. One event preceded the other, but that doesn't  mean the first event caused the subsequent one.

Wow!  I can eat pickles again.  I read that everyone who ate pickles in 1843 has since died.  The logical conclusion was that pickles caused their death.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 14, 2016, 05:09:03 pm
Wow!  I can eat pickles again.  I read that everyone who ate pickles in 1843 has since died.  The logical conclusion was that pickles caused their death.


New study showed that swallowing saliva causes cancer!!

But only when swallowed in very small amounts over a very long time.....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 14, 2016, 09:17:27 pm
Wow!  I can eat pickles again.  I read that everyone who ate pickles in 1843 has since died.  The logical conclusion was that pickles caused their death.

The great pickle plague of 1843.  It was devastating.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2016, 08:59:14 am
Thus the phrase, "We're in a pickle."

Sauer, its not likely you'll see any more folks on the road, on the job or roaming the streets stoned after legalization. However, those who are will likely get ticketed, fired, or referred for rehabilitation rather than a wink and a nod. As a much younger man, I've been drunk and I've been stoned driving, at work and on the street. I was infinitely more dangerous and less productive when I was drunk.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on September 16, 2016, 04:37:54 am
The great pickle plague of 1843.  It was devastating.

You can have my pickle when you peel my cold, dead hands off of it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 16, 2016, 11:26:26 am
The great pickle plague of 1843.  It was devastating.
The plague (or was it the flu) of 1918 was worse some say 50 million died from it- That number seems kinda high for me, but that is what some people claim. The 1918 plague/flu was called a "Pandemic". If you got it, it was tuff to recover- most did not.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 16, 2016, 11:35:15 am
 You do provide some levity in a seriously strange time.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 16, 2016, 11:37:21 am
As for legalizing MJ no one will change anyones mind here, I am against medical MJ use which  leads to R&R MJ use. I have known people who were very ill with cancer, strokes and other diseases and they were given regular medication and it worked well. Another point that is not mentioned when it comes to MJ -but is serious refers to gun laws and CCW- people  under the influence of MJ or any drug/alcohol cannot have a gun in their possession, it's a federal law. Oklahoma's "Stand your ground law" does not apply if your "mellowed out" on MJ because your not of sound mind. That apartment security guard who shot a kid sitting in his car and crippled him and he latter died was reported to have MJ in his system, the names escape me. The argument that people should have the right to use MJ in the privacy of their home is fine if they would stay in the house for 48 hours when they get high but they don't they venture out on the street and even drive while still under the influence.. It is what it is.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: swake on September 16, 2016, 11:37:31 am
My nose is big, uh-uh I'm not ashamed
Big like a pickle, I'm still getting paid.....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 16, 2016, 11:38:27 am
You do provide some levity in a seriously strange time.

It's not levity the flu of 1918 was  real- it really happened.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 16, 2016, 11:39:54 am
Oh, Officer McPickle. I just wanna ride my motor-sickle.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 16, 2016, 12:02:03 pm
Oh, Officer McPickle. I just wanna ride my motor-sickle.

You are poking at a turd using a stick


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 16, 2016, 12:24:05 pm
You are poking at a turd using a stick

Just be sure to wear latex gloves.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: swake on September 16, 2016, 12:49:10 pm
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/13meiGqQruS1xK/200_s.gif)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 16, 2016, 12:59:27 pm
As for legalizing MJ no one will change anyones mind here, I am against medical MJ use which  leads to R&R MJ use. I have known people who were very ill with cancer, strokes and other diseases and they were given regular medication and it worked well.


Another point that is not mentioned when it comes to MJ -but is serious refers to gun laws and CCW- people  under the influence of MJ or any drug/alcohol cannot have a gun in their possession, it's a federal law. Oklahoma's "Stand your ground law" does not apply if your "mellowed out" on MJ because your not of sound mind. That apartment security guard who shot a kid sitting in his car and crippled him and he latter died was reported to have MJ in his system, the names escape me. The argument that people should have the right to use MJ in the privacy of their home is fine if they would stay in the house for 48 hours when they get high but they don't they venture out on the street and even drive while still under the influence.. It is what it is.



Now we know for a fact you are lying.  Once in each of the first two sentences.  Cancer in particular...the pain drugs currently used do NOT work well in WAY TOO MANY cases!!  Having had as many - if not more - friends and family as you with that affliction.  In fact, I would take it one step further and say that since you have advanced that particular fantasy, you have NOT known anyone who has had cancer!!



As for your specious (look it up, since you don't know the word) nonsense about CCW and gun laws....well, that also applies with alcohol.  No point to that comment whatsoever.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 16, 2016, 01:13:12 pm
The plague (or was it the flu) of 1918 was worse some say 50 million died from it- That number seems kinda high for me, but that is what some people claim. The 1918 plague/flu was called a "Pandemic". If you got it, it was tuff to recover- most did not.


It was influenza.  Another reason for you to unplug from Faux News once in a while.  There have been DNA tests done that have positively identified the disease.  As for numbers, well, I guess that is just another reason for you to try to explore the real world once in a while.  There is a range of numbers possible and that one is good as any other.


Had a grandmother who was young at the time and parents kept her inside in the apt over their store in Kansas City.  She would sit in the front window and watch funeral processions from the flu.  Sometimes several a day....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 17, 2016, 01:14:41 am
Sauer, the other thing you are oblivious to, is that while states have made recreational use/possession legal, it doesn't change the testing policies, pre-employment screening, random testing, testing after an incident, and termination for being under the influence at work irrelevant. And on a personal note, the two people that I knew that have died from heroin overdoses in the last year, were not pot smokers, they were addicted to opioid based pain killers to begin with. Your thinking is so flawed and based on scare tactics that it's beyond laughable. There is truth about addiction and addictive personalities, but claiming that marijuana is a gateway drug is just not right, and based on fear mongering that probably started before your parents were born. Sadly the most addictive and lethal drugs have been prescribed by doctors and blindly filled by pharmacists since the end of WWII, just by people asking their doctor for them.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 17, 2016, 08:03:11 am
Gawd, I like that post. It shows you have some insight or experience with addictive personalities. The only purpose that Sauer serves is to elicit from people like you the correct responses, reinforce them to ourselves and try to educate others. Its a battle for our very survival in many ways.

Sauer, if there is a solid, unequivocal gateway drug that is also a clear indicator of addictive behavior its tobacco followed closely by alcohol.
Are you in favor of criminalizing their possession and use?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on September 17, 2016, 08:57:45 am
Your thinking is so flawed and based on scare tactics that it's beyond laughable. There is truth about addiction and addictive personalities, but claiming that marijuana is a gateway drug is just not right, and based on fear mongering that probably started before your parents were born.

He probably watched "Reefer Madness" a few too many times.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0028346/?ref_=nv_sr_2





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on September 17, 2016, 11:16:39 am
Sauer, the other thing you are oblivious to, is that while states have made recreational use/possession legal, it doesn't change the testing policies, pre-employment screening, random testing, testing after an incident, and termination for being under the influence at work irrelevant. And on a personal note, the two people that I knew that have died from heroin overdoses in the last year, were not pot smokers, they were addicted to opioid based pain killers to begin with. Your thinking is so flawed and based on scare tactics that it's beyond laughable. There is truth about addiction and addictive personalities, but claiming that marijuana is a gateway drug is just not right, and based on fear mongering that probably started before your parents were born. Sadly the most addictive and lethal drugs have been prescribed by doctors and blindly filled by pharmacists since the end of WWII, just by people asking their doctor for them.

One other thing I read is that in some studies done recently, it was shown that many people who were addicted to opioid pain medicines were able to get off that addiction once marijuana was used as a pain relief therapy as a replacement.

I know how addictive opioids can be.  I was taking oxycodone for a short time for a problem with my jaw that caused quite a bit of pain.  Doctor limited me to two refills and I found myself craving them a little after that.  Luckily that passed as I didn't pop them like Tic Tacs.  I can see, however, where there can be a physical addiction to them.  Once I realized I could mitigate the remaining pain with Naproxen (Aleve) I no longer craved it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 18, 2016, 01:48:26 pm
claiming that marijuana is a gateway drug is just not right, and based on fear mongering that probably started before your parents were born.

Ohmygawd I agree with dbacksfan.  :o



Even Faux News is giving in:

Making medical marijuana legal may lead to a reduction of opioid use in adults under the age of 40, a new study suggests.
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2016/09/16/medical-marijuana-programs-may-help-cut-opioid-use.html

The state's drug czar wants to make fighting opioid abuse a priority.  Ok, here's a plan...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 18, 2016, 02:03:56 pm
When I was in my early thirties, I had my wisdom teeth removed (some say I never recovered). They gave me such a strong drug to counteract the pain that I actually was unaware of long periods of time. A very pleasant feeling. Until I suddenly awakened on all fours perched over my 8 month old boy and I couldn't remember how or why I was there. These drugs are strong. To put marijuana in that class is hard to understand.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on September 18, 2016, 02:09:43 pm
When I was in my early thirties, I had my wisdom teeth removed (some say I never recovered). They gave me such a strong drug to counteract the pain that I actually was unaware of long periods of time. A very pleasant feeling. Until I suddenly awakened on all fours perched over my 8 month old boy and I couldn't remember how or why I was there. These drugs are strong. To put marijuana in that class is hard to understand.


When I had my wisdom teeth out they gave me a prescription for a drug named Mepergan Fortis.  It's evidently a combination opioid painkiller with an anti-nausea drug in it.  It made me feel similar to the oxycodone.  Meperidine is the narcotic in it.  Those opioid pain killers can be deadly.  They also have another side effect.  You stop doing your 'doody' on a regular basis.  Ugh.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on September 18, 2016, 09:13:39 pm
When I was in my early thirties, I had my wisdom teeth removed (some say I never recovered).

So that's what happened to you.

 ;D



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 19, 2016, 05:47:08 am
I should have sued for the loss of that wisdom but there's not much value in it I'm told. :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 19, 2016, 08:38:40 am
Sauer, the other thing you are oblivious to, is that while states have made recreational use/possession legal, it doesn't change the testing policies, pre-employment screening, random testing, testing after an incident, and termination for being under the influence at work irrelevant. And on a personal note, the two people that I knew that have died from heroin overdoses in the last year, were not pot smokers, they were addicted to opioid based pain killers to begin with. Your thinking is so flawed and based on scare tactics that it's beyond laughable. There is truth about addiction and addictive personalities, but claiming that marijuana is a gateway drug is just not right, and based on fear mongering that probably started before your parents were born. Sadly the most addictive and lethal drugs have been prescribed by doctors and blindly filled by pharmacists since the end of WWII, just by people asking their doctor for them.


The history of this cluster goes back to the 30's.  Involves DuPont, cause they didn't want the competition to nylon rope.  Hearst empire, cause Randolph didn't want the pulp paper competition to all the forests he owned and wanted to cut down.  And many other factors.   Here is one of the better sources of information about the FUD spewed about the topic.  The information has been there a LONG time - again, goes to the idea/ideal of knowledge of history and perspective on said history... And the very dangerous lack of same we experience so much in this country!

https://www.amazon.com/Emperor-Wears-Clothes-Marijuana-Conspiracy/dp/1878125028


Wiki backgrounder...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor_Wears_No_Clothes




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 19, 2016, 08:40:15 am
He probably watched "Reefer Madness" a few too many times.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0028346/?ref_=nv_sr_2






Cain't never watch Reefer Madness too many times!!  I's got the DVD!!  It's a classic!!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 19, 2016, 08:43:11 am
When I had my wisdom teeth out they gave me a prescription for a drug named Mepergan Fortis.  It's evidently a combination opioid painkiller with an anti-nausea drug in it.  It made me feel similar to the oxycodone.  Meperidine is the narcotic in it.  Those opioid pain killers can be deadly.  They also have another side effect.  You stop doing your 'doody' on a regular basis.  Ugh.


Demerol.   Yeah...it's a good feeling until it's not...


For some reason my Dr. has been resistant to prescribing it for me...! 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 26, 2016, 02:18:07 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/ag-scott-pruitt-defends-revisions-on-state-questions-that-some/article_2a9bb0cc-9c74-56b0-8d8a-791ab8d372fc.html

A.G.:  All Drugs Require Prescriptions

“They use the phrase in the marijuana petition ‘medicinal marijuana’,” (A.G. Scott) Pruitt said. “That is a label. When people hear medicinal marijuana, it creates the impression in their mind that means I access that drug like I access other drugs.

“You access other drugs through a prescription. Here, it doesn’t require a prescription. In fact, it is just a permit for two years.”

With a prescription, a doctor gives the patient a dosage with a duration and monitors usage, which is not the case with the wording on the petition as submitted, he said.

He said he doesn’t have an opinion on using marijuana for medical reasons.

“My job is to explain the effects of what is being proposed and put myself in the shoes of the citizen so they are properly informed about the consequences” of the issues they are voting on, Pruitt said.

David Slane is an Oklahoma City attorney representing Oklahomans for Health.

“It was clear from the totality of the way the ballot title was written that it would require a doctor’s authorization and a medical card,” Slane said. “For the attorney general to pretend like this was not for medical purposes is just not genuine.”


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 26, 2016, 03:31:39 pm
I may be too biased to effectively evaluate the issue, I dislike Pruitt and I think our current marijuana policy is an utter disaster. So here are the two prominent ballot questions for someone more objective to comment on:

Quote
This measure would remove Article 2, Section 5 of the Oklahoma Constitution, which prohibits the government from using public money or property for the direct or indirect benefit of any religion or religious institution. Article 2, Section 5 has been interpreted by the Oklahoma courts as requiring the removal of a Ten Commandments monument from the grounds of the State Capitol. If this measure repealing Article 2, Section 5 is passed, the government would still be required to comply with the Establishment Clause of the United States Constitution, which is a similar constitutional provision that prevents the government from endorsing a religion or becoming overly involved with religion.

Quote
This measure legalizes the licensed use, sale, and growth of marijuana in Oklahoma. There are no qualifying medical conditions identified. Possession and use of marijuana is authorized through a medical marijuana license that is valid for two years, rather than by prescription. An Oklahoma board certified physician must recommend the license using the same accepted standards for recommending other medications, and must sign the application for the license. The State Department of Health must issue a license to an applicant who:

submits a valid application,
is eighteen years or older, and
is an Oklahoma resident.
Applications for individuals under eighteen must be signed by two physicians and by a parent or legal guardian. The Department also issues seller, grower, packaging, transportation, research, and recycled paper caregiver licenses to those who meet certain minimal requirements. A 7 percent state tax is imposed on retail sales of marijuana. Unlicensed possession by an individual who claims to have a medical condition is punishable by a fine not exceeding $400. Local government cannot use zoning laws to prevent the opening of a retail marijuana store. This measure does not change federal law, which makes use, sale, and growth of marijuana illegal.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on September 26, 2016, 04:30:40 pm
State question haiku. Yes, I  know some aren't strictly formatted but I was rushed.

776

The death penalty
Never will be restricted
Awful idea. Vote no

777

Farming can ignore
Most of Oklahoma laws
Don't fall for this one

779

A sales tax increase
Bandaid for poor state planning
This is a bad idea

780

Conviction for drugs
Is much less draconian
Vote yes on this one

781

Cost savings return
To local communities
If 780 passes

790

US constitution
Supercedes this silly idea
Vote no for reason

792

Sensible booze law
What's not to love about this?
Vote yes on this one


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 27, 2016, 07:33:55 am
Well done!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 27, 2016, 09:06:34 am
State question haiku. Yes, I  know some aren't strictly formatted but I was rushed.

776

The death penalty
Never will be restricted
Awful idea. Vote no

777

Farming can ignore
Most of Oklahoma laws
Don't fall for this one

779

A sales tax increase
Bandaid for poor state planning
This is a bad idea

780

Conviction for drugs
Is much less draconian
Vote yes on this one

781

Cost savings return
To local communities
If 780 passes

790

US constitution
Supercedes this silly idea
Vote no for reason

792

Sensible booze law
What's not to love about this?
Vote yes on this one



Great minds think alike...!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 27, 2016, 11:16:38 am
State question haiku.

We should keep Ed around.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 27, 2016, 12:36:46 pm
That's outstanding Ed


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 27, 2016, 05:48:45 pm
Ed gives a positive connotation to ED. Good job.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 30, 2016, 10:14:23 am
So while Big Pharma uses its military muscle (DEA) to keep marijuana out of the hands of amateurs (until its ready to take over)...
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/09/28/marijuana-raids-pot-southern-colorado/

Congress to DEA:  "You're High"   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/congress-kratom-dea-letter_us_57e93743e4b0e28b2b54fe36








Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 07, 2016, 10:22:36 am
Even in states with legal medical marijuana, the feds still throw money at local police to do stupid things:




AMHERST — All that remains of the solitary marijuana plant an 81-year-old grandmother had been growing behind her South Amherst home is a stump and a ragged hole in the ground.

Margaret Holcomb said she was growing the plant as medicine, a way to ease arthritis and glaucoma and help her sleep at night. Tucked away in a raspberry patch and separated by a fence from any neighbors, the plant was nearly ready for harvest when a military-style helicopter and police descended on Sept. 21.

In a joint raid, the Massachusetts National Guard and State Police entered her yard and cut down the solitary plant in what her son, Tim Holcomb, said was a “pretty shocking” action — one that he argues constitutes unlawful surveillance and illegal search and seizure.
Holcomb said he was at his mother’s home eating a late lunch with his sister when they heard whirring blades and looked up to see a military-style helicopter circling the property, with two men crouching in an open door and holding a device that he suspects was a thermal imager to detect marijuana plants.

Within 10 minutes of the helicopter departing, several vehicles arrived at the home, including a pickup truck with a bed filled with marijuana plants seized at
other locations, and several State Police troopers, including one who flashed his badge.
Holcomb said he was told that as long as he did not demand that a warrant be provided to enter the property or otherwise escalate the situation, authorities would file no criminal charges.


http://www.gazettenet.com/MarijuanaRaid-HG-100116-5074664



State police spokesman David Procopio said these operations were done under the auspices of the Drug Enforcement Administration's Cannabis Eradication Program, which gives state authorities money to uproot pot plants. Some lawmakers are questioning whether an $18 million federal program to pull pot plants makes sense.

Last year a member of an eradication team testified that a medical marijuana law could lead to an epidemic of stoned rabbits and other animals.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/10/07/drug-cops-raid-an-81-year-old-grandmothers-garden-to-take-out-a-single-marijuana-plant/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 07, 2016, 10:49:15 am
Isn't there a legal term for the offer they made not to prosecute?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on October 07, 2016, 01:56:24 pm
Even in states with legal medical marijuana, the feds still throw money at local police to do stupid things:




AMHERST — All that remains of the solitary marijuana plant an 81-year-old grandmother had been growing behind her South Amherst home is a stump and a ragged hole in the ground.

Margaret Holcomb said she was growing the plant as medicine, a way to ease arthritis and glaucoma and help her sleep at night. Tucked away in a raspberry patch and separated by a fence from any neighbors, the plant was nearly ready for harvest when a military-style helicopter and police descended on Sept. 21.

In a joint raid, the Massachusetts National Guard and State Police entered her yard and cut down the solitary plant in what her son, Tim Holcomb, said was a “pretty shocking” action — one that he argues constitutes unlawful surveillance and illegal search and seizure.
Holcomb said he was at his mother’s home eating a late lunch with his sister when they heard whirring blades and looked up to see a military-style helicopter circling the property, with two men crouching in an open door and holding a device that he suspects was a thermal imager to detect marijuana plants.

Within 10 minutes of the helicopter departing, several vehicles arrived at the home, including a pickup truck with a bed filled with marijuana plants seized at
other locations, and several State Police troopers, including one who flashed his badge.
Holcomb said he was told that as long as he did not demand that a warrant be provided to enter the property or otherwise escalate the situation, authorities would file no criminal charges.


http://www.gazettenet.com/MarijuanaRaid-HG-100116-5074664



State police spokesman David Procopio said these operations were done under the auspices of the Drug Enforcement Administration's Cannabis Eradication Program, which gives state authorities money to uproot pot plants. Some lawmakers are questioning whether an $18 million federal program to pull pot plants makes sense.

Last year a member of an eradication team testified that a medical marijuana law could lead to an epidemic of stoned rabbits and other animals.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/10/07/drug-cops-raid-an-81-year-old-grandmothers-garden-to-take-out-a-single-marijuana-plant/

So much for the Fourth Amendment...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 07, 2016, 07:27:24 pm
Isn't there a legal term for the offer they made not to prosecute?

Conspiracy to deprive civil rights (federal offense).  Racketeering maybe, extortion? 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 07, 2016, 07:48:09 pm
Yes. Extortion. If I remember correctly, and that's not likely, it involves leveraging knowledge of an illegal act into a payoff of some sort. In this case, we won't prosecute your illegal act if you don't make us follow the law.

The other two I'm not sure but it sure sounds like extortion to me.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 08, 2016, 02:15:42 pm
Is all this marijuana talk making anybody hungry?


LA-based cannabis cook Jeff the 420 Chef also caters to this “high” end scene. He travels to individual homes and parties—celebrity parties, yacht parties, cannabis magazine parties—to cook up infused feasts. Kale salad, hazy Thai wings, and 420 Irish Cream (sans alcohol) are some of his favorites. He keeps the dose at around 10 milligrams per person (assuming you don't stuff yourself), which he says would have about as strong an effect as two glasses of wine.

(http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/37779/1474576301633549.jpg)

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/this-is-how-ultra-rich-stoners-get-baked-with-class


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: davideinstein on October 08, 2016, 10:57:48 pm
If anyone wants to invest, TRTC is a good ticker to follow for marijuana.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on October 10, 2016, 08:24:53 am
If anyone wants to invest, TRTC is a good ticker to follow for marijuana.

I invested in marijuana once, all my money went up in smoke.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 10, 2016, 08:31:07 am
Some investments are more personally satisfying than economically beneficial. And some are political statements. Either way, they serve some purpose other than money returns. Wouldn't you agree?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 10, 2016, 08:50:36 am
Is all this marijuana talk making anybody hungry?


LA-based cannabis cook Jeff the 420 Chef also caters to this “high” end scene. He travels to individual homes and parties—celebrity parties, yacht parties, cannabis magazine parties—to cook up infused feasts. Kale salad, hazy Thai wings, and 420 Irish Cream (sans alcohol) are some of his favorites. He keeps the dose at around 10 milligrams per person (assuming you don't stuff yourself), which he says would have about as strong an effect as two glasses of wine.



Oh, man....you got a mean streak!!   Now, I gotta go to LA...!!  Geez - I hate LA!!

Just had breakfast about 30 minutes ago, and that picture gave me the instant munchies!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: davideinstein on October 10, 2016, 02:58:13 pm
Some investments are more personally satisfying than economically beneficial. And some are political statements. Either way, they serve some purpose other than money returns. Wouldn't you agree?

All about the bottom line to me unless it's a completely unethical company.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 10, 2016, 03:40:52 pm
All about the bottom line to me unless it's a completely unethical company.


No, it's not beat up on David day, but what about a half unethical company??



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 10, 2016, 04:46:24 pm
All about the bottom line to me unless it's a completely unethical company.

It was a clever rejoinder to Conan's post. I don't know poop about investing.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: davideinstein on October 10, 2016, 06:48:24 pm
It was a clever rejoinder to Conan's post. I don't know poop about investing.

I know a good amount of people that invest in only companies they believe in, etc. sorry for missing the joke.

Sigh.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 11, 2016, 04:54:08 pm
No need for sorry. It obviously wasn't that cute.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on October 11, 2016, 06:15:18 pm
No need for sorry. It obviously wasn't that cute.


FWIW, I got a good guffaw out of it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 11, 2016, 07:00:24 pm
Thank you, sir. I knew you would get it. ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 17, 2016, 02:05:09 pm
I invested in marijuana once, all my money went up in smoke.


When Oklahoma and Nebraska filed a lawsuit in 2015 against Colorado for legalizing marijuana, Kansas Attorney General Derek Schmidt wanted to see whether it was a problem before signing on.

He would need to prove that Kansas had suffered harm from Colorado marijuana to have a case.

But law enforcement was reporting fewer – not more – marijuana-related offenses. This was confusing to Schmidt, who said he’d heard from law enforcement that Colorado marijuana was king.

So he invoked a 19th-century law to survey law enforcement agencies. And he received a huge response: 390 law enforcement agencies and district attorneys painted the first large-scale picture of the impact of Colorado’s legalization on Kansas.


http://www.kansas.com/news/state/article107670032.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 15, 2016, 01:33:33 pm
With any luck, Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt will now be too busy suing Arkansas to further meddle in SQ 788 (Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Legalization Initiative).  If you remember, he re-worded the title of the approved petition at the last minute to make it appear that the initiative wasnt just for medical marijuana, effectively sabotaging its chances of being on the ballot last week.

“The people of Oklahoma have decided that we can no longer afford to fill our prisons with individuals suffering from addiction ... That strategy has been far too costly in dollars and in lives.”

Now what crazy liberal law-and-order-hating pansy said that?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elections/political-notebook-gov-mary-fallin-wants-to-push-for-more/article_1e66e018-f149-5ea4-9446-7d079be169e9.html
Oh.  Lovers spat with the prison lobbyists?
How are we going to get DNA swabs from people arrested for felonies if you cant make everything a felony?




Marijuana reform went 8 for 9 on the 2016 ballot
Voters in California, Massachusetts and Nevada approved recreational marijuana initiatives Tuesday night, and several other states passed medical marijuana provisions, in what is turning out to be the biggest electoral victory for marijuana reform since 2012, when Colorado and Washington first approved the drug's recreational use.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/08/medical-marijuana-sails-to-victory-in-florida


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on November 15, 2016, 03:47:12 pm
I invested in marijuana once, all my money went up in smoke.

This is the POT I invested in.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=potash%20stock


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 15, 2016, 04:25:49 pm
This is the POT I invested in.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=potash%20stock


Potash is okay.  Seed burns can be pretty conspicuous...or so I’m told.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 18, 2016, 08:58:52 am
A little more of the history of our current insanity....  This guy, at best was just a regular old slimeball.



http://www.cbsnews.com/news/harry-anslinger-the-man-behind-the-marijuana-ban/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 18, 2016, 08:12:04 pm
A little more of the history of our current insanity....  This guy, at best was just a regular old slimeball.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/harry-anslinger-the-man-behind-the-marijuana-ban/

As is pretty much everyone who has followed in his footsteps.

“Those who counted on Donald Trump’s reassurance that marijuana reforms ‘should be a state issue’ will be sorely disappointed.”
As far back as 1986, (Sen. Jeff Sessions) joked that he thought the Ku Klux Klan “was okay until I found out they smoked pot”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/18/trumps-pick-for-attorney-general-good-people-dont-smoke-marijuana/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 19, 2016, 08:28:01 pm

How are we going to get DNA swabs from people arrested for felonies if you cant make everything a felony?





Cops want your spit.

Give generously.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: davideinstein on November 21, 2016, 04:19:08 pm
I'm out on pot stocks after that election and Sessions appointment.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 22, 2016, 10:19:58 am
I'm out on pot stocks after that election and Sessions appointment.

Welcome back to the 1980's... or 50's...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2016/11/21/jeff-sessionss-ridiculous-anti-drug-crusade/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on November 22, 2016, 12:36:28 pm
Why all the hate?  Seriously, we are thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to winning the war o drugs. Any quarter century now. Just wait for it.......


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 24, 2016, 06:01:27 pm
Why all the hate?  Seriously, we are thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to winning the war o drugs. Any quarter century now. Just wait for it.......

States rights...states rights...states rights...hmmmmmmm
Meanwhile, outside the third world:



Pot's legal, so now what?
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/special/20161121/pots-legal-so-now-what

You might notice similarities to their creating something similar to the ABLE Commission in Oklahoma.  At the time, it was heralded as a step towards modernizing liquor laws, but as time progressed, ABLE became the bloated, obsolete fiefdom it is now.

Will other states learn from Oklahoma's mistakes?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 28, 2016, 02:24:55 pm

Cops want your spit.

Give generously.


Yeah...about that....spitting would is just another excuse to shoot you.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 16, 2016, 10:04:35 pm
The DEA just banned non-intoxicating CBD oil used to treat epilepsy sufferers
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/189093/20161216/dea-declares-cbd-marijuana-extracts-illegal-under-new-rule.htm

They did it for the children.


The Drug Enforcement Administration issued a new ruling by which cannabidiol (CBD) hemp oil was declared a substance part of the Schedule I Controlled Substances Act. Following this decision, CBD oil will be in the same category as LSD, MDMA, psilocybin and other drugs.

The CBD oil is made from hemp plants not containing a large quantity of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), which is the psychoactive component of cannabis.
CBD – Schedule I Drug

According to the ruling, the extracts containing CBD will also contain other cannabinoids in small amounts. Currently, the drug is used in treating a wide range of diseases, from PTSD to epilepsy or anxiety, being a very powerful anti-inflammatory medicine. Another use of the drug is helping to manage pain in patients who suffer from different chronic conditions.

The Schedule I drugs refer to substances or chemicals whose potential for abuse is so high that their use is illegal. Following this statement, the CBD has also joined the list.

"The abuse rate is a determinate factor in the scheduling of the drug; for example, Schedule I drugs have a high potential for abuse and the potential to create severe psychological and/or physical dependence," according to the DEA website.

However, the decision did not pass unnoticed by marijuana activists, who believe that the institution is not given the authority to make such decisions.

"The DEA can only carry out the law, they cannot create it. Here they're purporting to create an entirely new category called 'marijuana extracts,' and by doing so wrest control over all cannabinoids. They want to call all cannabinoids illegal. But they don't have the authority to do that," noted Robert Hoban, an adjunct professor of law at the University of Denver.

The new ruling is opposed to the view of another federal agency, the National Institute on Drug Abuse, whose director, Nora Volkow, believes, that CBD should by no means be restricted under the portmanteau of having no medical value.

"There is reason to believe (CBD) may have a range of uses in medicine, including in the treatment of seizures and other neurological disorders," Volkow mentioned in 2015.



You may remember Governor Failin signed legislation earlier this year authorizing supervised clinical use of CBD oil on children suffering from epilepsy.
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/fallin-signs-bill-legalizing-marijuana-oil-medical/67098256

The CBD oil we are studying is a non-intoxicating derivative of marijuana,” said Fallin. “It is not marijuana, and it is not anything that can make you ‘high.’ This law has been narrowly crafted to support highly supervised medical trials for children with debilitating seizures.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 19, 2016, 11:02:05 am


They did it for the children.




It's gonna be a Brave New World starting in January!  Get used to it!



And start working against it!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 30, 2016, 09:42:19 am

It's gonna be a Brave New World starting in January!  Get used to it!
And start working against it!

After states legalized medical marijuana, traffic deaths fell

Legalization of medical marijuana is not linked with increased traffic fatalities, a new study finds. In some states, in fact, the number of people killed in traffic accidents dropped after medical marijuana laws were enacted.
The decrease in traffic fatalities was particularly striking – 12 percent – in 25- to 44-year-olds, an age group with a large percentage of registered medical marijuana users, reports the American Journal of Public Health.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-marijuana-traffic-death-idUSKBN14H1LQ


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 03, 2017, 09:19:42 am
After states legalized medical marijuana, traffic deaths fell

Legalization of medical marijuana is not linked with increased traffic fatalities, a new study finds. In some states, in fact, the number of people killed in traffic accidents dropped after medical marijuana laws were enacted.
The decrease in traffic fatalities was particularly striking – 12 percent – in 25- to 44-year-olds, an age group with a large percentage of registered medical marijuana users, reports the American Journal of Public Health.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-marijuana-traffic-death-idUSKBN14H1LQ



With modern automobiles - and even most older cars - it's tough to have a fatality accident at 7 mph!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 06, 2017, 02:53:22 pm
I got sucked down a rabit hole, but this is fascinating to me.  Such a change.

Arkansas voters approved Medical Marijuana back in November, that triggered a commission to set up regulations.  They finalized many of the important regs and published them today:

1)  $15,000 to file an application to be considered for a growing operation
2) Must have a $1,000,000 bond in place
3) In addition to the bond, must hold $500,000 in cash liquidity
4) $100,000 annual fee, and
5) there will be no more than 5 licensed grow operations

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southcentral/2017/01/06/437446.htm

There will almost certainly be additional application, bonds, cash, and fee requirements for dispensaries (patients are required to buy from dispensaries, who must by from registered growers).

Then there is also a tax on the final sale to the patient (above normal sales tax).

I can tell you that the fees to open a brewery in Arkansas do not even approach these amounts, and that isn't for something the State now defines as medicine. In Washington State the application fee is $250 and the licensing fee is $1,000 per year.  The fees to license a DEA manufacturing facility appear to be much less.

Currently, it is estimated that Arkansas is #10 in the nation in Marijuana production (all illegal at this point):
599,632 plants, 264,388 pounds, worth  $424,607,000
https://www.drugscience.org/Archive/bcr2/domstprod.html  (this is a marijuana advocacy website, so I can not attest to the accuracy)

The DEA destroys nearly 100,000 plants per year in Arkansas at the moment.  No idea what percentage they get, but the availability of the drug in Arkansas is listed as "high"  (insert Butthead laugh here) by the DEA.  If law enforcement got 25% of all illegally grown Marijuana, I'd guess they were doing a pretty good job.  So the amount produced has to be substantial.
https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6184/marijuan.htm

There are up to 240,000 patients eligible to register in Arkansas.  I think they are each allowed up to 2.5 OZ every two weeks (with Doctors approval, proper registration, ,etc.) (http://www.arkansasmatters.com/news/local-news/how-many-marijuana-plants-can-producers-grow-in-arkansas/636435147).  The state sets up the final quota allowed, but that is an huge potential amount of legal weed.  A pound of marijuana at a wholesale price in Denver costs about 2,000 a pound (http://mjbizdaily.com/colorado-wholesale-recreational-cannabis-prices-tumbling/) (still weird that this data is available (http://www.confluence-denver.com/features/sustainable_cannabis_071614.aspx)). So each one of these government sponsored oligopolies has huge potential revenue.

Now, anticipated revenue is much, much less than the total potential.  The estimate I found was about $35,000,000 per year.  Still, the government chooses 5 businesses to essentially award a $7 mil contract to each of them.  But the government still plans on losing money trying to regulate it. Interesting numbers:  http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/public/DFA-AMMA-Implementation-Analysis-101916.pdf

Anyway, it is exactly the opposite approach taken by some other states which mandated smaller growing operations (New Mexico caps it at like 450 plants).  While I would prefer to be an early adopter, Oklahoma should get the benefit for looking at what other states have done and taking the concepts that have worked out well from a law enforcement, revenue, public health, and "will of the people" perspectives.

Will we?

http://www.freeweekly.com/2016/11/16/how-medical-cannabis-will-be-implemented-in-arkansas/
http://ualrpublicradio.org/post/future-medical-marijuana-arkansas-all-amendment-arkansans-voted#stream/0


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on January 06, 2017, 03:14:09 pm
Oklahoma should get the benefit for looking at what other states have done and taking the concepts that have worked out well from a law enforcement, revenue, public health, and "will of the people" perspectives.

Will we?


Well, of course we will!  I mean, look at what we've learned from other states on highways, liquor, taxation, schools, parks and recreation funding, etc, etc, ad nauseum...

It would have been incredibly easy for AR, and would be for OK, to look at CO or WA and say "hey, let's basically copy what they did. Seems to work pretty well."  But you can rest assured that if/when we ever get serious about legalizing marijuana in some way, we will find a way to make it so convoluted and confusing that it ends up being a burden.   And then the naysayers (the ones that caused it to be so messed up) can say "told you so!"


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 06, 2017, 05:03:11 pm
I got sucked down a rabit hole, but this is fascinating to me.  Such a change.

Arkansas voters approved Medical Marijuana back in November, that triggered a commission to set up regulations.  They finalized many of the important regs and published them today:

1)  $15,000 to file an application to be considered for a growing operation
2) Must have a $1,000,000 bond in place
3) In addition to the bond, must hold $500,000 in cash liquidity
4) $100,000 annual fee, and
5) there will be no more than 5 licensed grow operations





Arkansas voters are a lot like Oklahoma voters.  Stupid enough to let the legislature control important stuff.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 15, 2017, 08:40:27 am

A billion dollars that did NOT go to cartels or leave the country.


https://www.facebook.com/attn/videos/1284654564903333/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 15, 2017, 09:33:32 am
I read an article over the weekend (I think it was in Wired) that the price of marijuana is dropping as the markets mature and competition kicks in. The lesson for the states:  TAX BASED ON WEIGHT, NOT PRICE.  Some states slapped a percent tax on sale of goods, others taxed based on a set amount of tax per unit sold.  So 20% sales tax vs. $1o per ounce ... the latter is not impacted by market fluctuations.

Keep notes Oklahoma!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 15, 2017, 01:53:15 pm
I read an article over the weekend (I think it was in Wired) that the price of marijuana is dropping as the markets mature and competition kicks in. The lesson for the states:  TAX BASED ON WEIGHT, NOT PRICE.  Some states slapped a percent tax on sale of goods, others taxed based on a set amount of tax per unit sold.  So 20% sales tax vs. $1o per ounce ... the latter is not impacted by market fluctuations.

Keep notes Oklahoma!


Just like gasoline tax ---  cents per gallon.  Or alcohol, dollars per gallon.

There is a way to do this that can be very beneficial.  Just gotta get rid of the Scott Pruitts in the state...   Oh, wait...taking us from the frying pan into the fire!!







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 20, 2017, 03:09:04 pm
I got sucked down a rabit hole, but this is fascinating to me.  Such a change.

Arkansas voters approved Medical Marijuana back in November, that triggered a commission to set up regulations.  They finalized many of the important regs and published them today:

1)  $15,000 to file an application to be considered for a growing operation
2) Must have a $1,000,000 bond in place
3) In addition to the bond, must hold $500,000 in cash liquidity
4) $100,000 annual fee, and
5) there will be no more than 5 licensed grow operations

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southcentral/2017/01/06/437446.htm

There will almost certainly be additional application, bonds, cash, and fee requirements for dispensaries (patients are required to buy from dispensaries, who must by from registered growers).

Then there is also a tax on the final sale to the patient (above normal sales tax).

I can tell you that the fees to open a brewery in Arkansas do not even approach these amounts, and that isn't for something the State now defines as medicine. In Washington State the application fee is $250 and the licensing fee is $1,000 per year.  The fees to license a DEA manufacturing facility appear to be much less.

Currently, it is estimated that Arkansas is #10 in the nation in Marijuana production (all illegal at this point):
599,632 plants, 264,388 pounds, worth  $424,607,000
https://www.drugscience.org/Archive/bcr2/domstprod.html  (this is a marijuana advocacy website, so I can not attest to the accuracy)

The DEA destroys nearly 100,000 plants per year in Arkansas at the moment.  No idea what percentage they get, but the availability of the drug in Arkansas is listed as "high"  (insert Butthead laugh here) by the DEA.  If law enforcement got 25% of all illegally grown Marijuana, I'd guess they were doing a pretty good job.  So the amount produced has to be substantial.
https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6184/marijuan.htm

There are up to 240,000 patients eligible to register in Arkansas.  I think they are each allowed up to 2.5 OZ every two weeks (with Doctors approval, proper registration, ,etc.) (http://www.arkansasmatters.com/news/local-news/how-many-marijuana-plants-can-producers-grow-in-arkansas/636435147).  The state sets up the final quota allowed, but that is an huge potential amount of legal weed.  A pound of marijuana at a wholesale price in Denver costs about 2,000 a pound (http://mjbizdaily.com/colorado-wholesale-recreational-cannabis-prices-tumbling/) (still weird that this data is available (http://www.confluence-denver.com/features/sustainable_cannabis_071614.aspx)). So each one of these government sponsored oligopolies has huge potential revenue.

Now, anticipated revenue is much, much less than the total potential.  The estimate I found was about $35,000,000 per year.  Still, the government chooses 5 businesses to essentially award a $7 mil contract to each of them.  But the government still plans on losing money trying to regulate it. Interesting numbers:  http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/public/DFA-AMMA-Implementation-Analysis-101916.pdf

Anyway, it is exactly the opposite approach taken by some other states which mandated smaller growing operations (New Mexico caps it at like 450 plants).  While I would prefer to be an early adopter, Oklahoma should get the benefit for looking at what other states have done and taking the concepts that have worked out well from a law enforcement, revenue, public health, and "will of the people" perspectives.

Will we?

http://www.freeweekly.com/2016/11/16/how-medical-cannabis-will-be-implemented-in-arkansas/
http://ualrpublicradio.org/post/future-medical-marijuana-arkansas-all-amendment-arkansans-voted#stream/0


Apparently not... The bad example has such allure. 


State Rep. Eric Proctor of Tulsa has introduced a measure that's nearly an exact replica of what's being considered in neighboring Arkansas, where medical marijuana was legalized by voters last November.

The bill mirrors Arkansas' proposed plan, calling for a maximum $7,500 fee to apply to run a dispensary and a maximum $15,000 fee to apply for a marijuana cultivation license. It also calls for the creation of a medical marijuana commission, as in Arkansas.

"It's modeled after the laws in Arkansas," Proctor said. "It was done intentionally so we can see what (Arkansas) has done right and wrong."
The bill would task the Alcoholic Beverage Laws Enforcement Commission with adopting rules governing oversight, record-keeping, security and other regulations over the drug.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/oklahoma-lawmaker-s-bill-sets-rules-for-medical-marijuana/article_4f5c6dd8-ec25-5360-8025-62f3d942220f.html




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 20, 2017, 03:15:24 pm
We live in a sinful, unethical, immoral, unjust, Un-Christian country that allows the ongoing torture of children when low cost, reasonable drugs are available that have been proven to help serious problems.   But then again, we just elected Trump, so I can understand....


https://www.facebook.com/ATTNVideo/videos/1664371617201126/



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 20, 2017, 10:35:28 pm
We live in a sinful, unethical, immoral, unjust, Un-Christian country that allows the ongoing torture of children when low cost, reasonable drugs are available that have been proven to help serious problems.   But then again, we just elected Trump, so I can understand....
https://www.facebook.com/ATTNVideo/videos/1664371617201126/



Sure, leave it up to the DPS and A.B.L.E.
Is this the only scheme the unions would get behind?  Move the corruption from one pocket to another?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 21, 2017, 08:36:17 am
So a couple dozen states have adopted various marijuana laws and have operated them for years.  We model ours on a state that is just now adopting laws and hasn't put them in practice yet.  That has minimal value from a "learn from the experiences of others" perspective.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 21, 2017, 11:02:36 am
So a couple dozen states have adopted various marijuana laws and have operated them for years.  We model ours on a state that is just now adopting laws and hasn't put them in practice yet.  That has minimal value from a "learn from the experiences of others" perspective.


Like liquor reform, we arent obligated to considering just the package-store association's desires.
"Suggested language" from special interest groups with a stake in the status quo arent our only option.

The states that are raking in revenue while enjoying a drop in drug crimes should be our model, rather than "what lobbyists do I need to brownnose to get re-elected."
Sen. Connie Johnson, Rep Joe Dorman etc. will surely weigh in before November 2018 when we are allowed to vote on whats left of the original petition
https://ballotpedia.org/Oklahoma_Medical_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative,_State_Question_788_(2018)

Most of the homework has already been done:


Overview of MPP’s model state medical marijuana bill
https://www.mpp.org/issues/medical-marijuana/overview-of-mpps-model-state-medical-marijuana-bill/

Medical Marijuana Program - California Department of Public Health
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/MMP/Pages/default.aspx

Colorado on pot: America's imperfect marijuana model
http://weedrush.news21.com/colorado-on-pot-americas-imperfect-marijuana-model/

Medical Marijuana Rules and Statutes
https://public.health.oregon.gov/DiseasesConditions/ChronicDisease/MedicalMarijuanaProgram/Pages/legal.aspx


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 21, 2017, 04:29:33 pm

Sure, leave it up to the DPS and A.B.L.E.
Is this the only scheme the unions would get behind?  Move the corruption from one pocket to another?


No.  First ya gotta get Okies to elect someone with at least half a brain to rein in both of those.

And yeah, I know we will never have the kind of enlightenment the people of this state deserve.   Er, uh...maybe we already have it...?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 24, 2017, 05:07:54 pm
Trump's vow to crack down on marijuana has 'unnerved' investors and caused stocks to tumble
Administrations warning to the marijuana industry that there will be "greater enforcement" of federal laws that outlaw the drug is already spooking investors after years of heavy interest in the business.

http://www.businessinsider.com/marijuana-investors-unnerved-by-trump-comments-on-enforcing-weed-laws-2017-2


Medical marijuana is currently legal in 28 states and Washington, D.C.,while recreational marijuana is legal in eight states and D.C.
NOW who is the kill-jobs-with-government-regulations hack?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 27, 2017, 10:57:28 am
'Wrong time to pull back': Colorado governor chastises Trump administration for anti-legal-weed stance

"I think it's the wrong time to pull back from this experiment, and if the federal government's going to come and begin closing in and arresting people that are doing what's legal in different states, my god, it creates a level of conflict that's going to be very difficult," Hickenlooper said. "So we're, we are trying to regulate and enforce public safety around both medical marijuana and recreational marijuana as aggressively as we possibly can."


http://www.businessinsider.com/john-hickenlooper-legal-weed-colorado-trump-2017-2


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 27, 2017, 12:59:32 pm
'Wrong time to pull back': Colorado governor chastises Trump administration for anti-legal-weed stance

"I think it's the wrong time to pull back from this experiment, and if the federal government's going to come and begin closing in and arresting people that are doing what's legal in different states, my god, it creates a level of conflict that's going to be very difficult," Hickenlooper said. "So we're, we are trying to regulate and enforce public safety around both medical marijuana and recreational marijuana as aggressively as we possibly can."


http://www.businessinsider.com/john-hickenlooper-legal-weed-colorado-trump-2017-2



So much for Trump's lies about 'states rights'.... 

Just more of the same from him.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: erfalf on February 27, 2017, 01:02:03 pm

So much for Trump's lies about 'states rights'.... 

Just more of the same from him.



Just for kicks, name me one other indigestible substance that is regulated ONLY at the state level.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 27, 2017, 01:10:55 pm
Just for kicks, name me one other indigestible substance that is regulated ONLY at the state level.


Marijuana is not indigestible.  Brownies...cookies...cake...  Yummy!!


Can't think of one on short notice.  And I would hope there aren't many that have been determined to be public health hazards that aren't.  That's kinda one big point to Federal regulations - since the states have a long, proven record of failure in that, and they are things that apply across all 50 states, they SHOULD be regulated at the Fed level. 

The big problem is when prohibition is in place for something that is not only not a particular danger, but in fact is proven to be beneficial in a wide variety of applications, then the Fed needs to step away from the corporate payoffs for once and make MJ legal.  Put their actions where their lies are - personal freedom,  liberty to live ones own life the way one sees best, etc...all that stuff that they make noise about, then prove the lie by interfering with on a massive scale.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: erfalf on February 27, 2017, 01:13:35 pm
Meant ingestible. Spell check.

My point was that this would actually fly in the face of pretty much every regulated substance traded in this country. The feds regulate it all, why should weed be any different. And that your swipe at Trump (while deserved in many cases) is again for you a lame attempt to smear him for something that truly is not a big thing, or even his thing. Weed laws predate Trump, if you want to take a swipe at him for not doing something to change it, then by all means go for it. I believe Trump may have also made some comments while running regarding adhering to the law, which the last President technically wasn't doing, particularly in this area.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 27, 2017, 01:33:14 pm
Meant ingestible. Spell check.

My point was that this would actually fly in the face of pretty much every regulated substance traded in this country. The feds regulate it all, why should weed be any different. And that your swipe at Trump (while deserved in many cases) is again for you a lame attempt to smear him for something that truly is not a big thing, or even his thing. Weed laws predate Trump, if you want to take a swipe at him for not doing something to change it, then by all means go for it. I believe Trump may have also made some comments while running regarding adhering to the law, which the last President technically wasn't doing, particularly in this area.


Ahh....yeah...ingestible is good.


??    Trump is the one who said he was gonna start pushing enforcement harder, so, yeah it is his thing.   All he had to do was say nothing and it would not have been "his thing".  But with that massive ego and the huge narcissistic flaw in his nature, he just couldn't do that.

I really don't have to try at all to smear Trump.  He makes it almost too easy - all I have to do is make note of all the stupid stuff he says and does, and the lies he tells.  It may sound like it is me smearing, given the extreme magnitude of stupid he embraces, but there really is a big difference between that and just commenting/reporting.  One thing that is sad is that you don't seem to recognize the problems with all he says and does - I continue to hold out hope for you cause generally you are a thoughtful, interesting, mostly rational, commentor here!!  And I enjoy hearing about Bartlesville, too.

As for adhering to the law - do you mean like Bush didn't do when he authorized, condoned, and advocated torture - a war crime - as official policy of the US??  And as Trump has also said that he supports and wants to bring back?  As condemned by John McCain...   Those laws??



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on February 27, 2017, 01:44:25 pm
Someone might also want to mention that his denigration of the troops does nothing to help their morale.

Quote
TRUMP: We have to start winning wars again. I have to say, when I was young, in high school and college, everybody used to say “we never lost a war.” We never lost a war, you remember, some of you were right there with me and you remember we never lost a war. America never lost. And now, we never win a war. We never win. And we don’t fight to win. We don’t fight to win

And now, 43 is the voice of reason.  Who'd have thought?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZHnChLcRr0



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: erfalf on February 27, 2017, 02:18:30 pm

As for adhering to the law - do you mean like Bush didn't do when he authorized, condoned, and advocated torture - a war crime - as official policy of the US??  And as Trump has also said that he supports and wants to bring back?  As condemned by John McCain...   Those laws??



We all have to start somewhere. haha


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 27, 2017, 03:10:19 pm
We all have to start somewhere. haha


Well Trump hasn't started yet.  Still illegally hiring illegal aliens in his hotels.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 02, 2017, 10:23:10 am

So much for Trump's lies about 'states rights'....  



State Rep. Proctor is ignoring states with successful track records in favor of one with no record and the promise of a narco-bureaucracy with a slush fund.

Seems insincere.


Pot sales pay for schools and road repairs, but Trump might take that away

“Money is now going into schools instead of marijuana dealers on the sidewalk, and frankly that is not an unhealthy thing,” said Washington state Gov. Jay Inslee.
Marijuana tax revenues nearly doubled in Washington state in 2016 compared with the previous year, hitting $256 million. Inslee said they could exceed $700 million in the next two years.


http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/article135497108.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 24, 2017, 12:37:38 pm
Borrowing from the liquor reform thread...
Quote
Yeah, but gotta keep chipping away.  The walls will fall sooner or later. 

I do think though, that the tides are turning on all of this.  Maybe not this time, but it will happen.


"If we bring this out in the open, we can generate revenue legally rather than for the black market"
Based on sales of recreational marijuana in Colorado, the Marijuana Policy Project, a national advocacy group, estimates sales in Illinois could generate about $350 million to $700 million per year.
Last year, a new state law also decriminalized the possession of less than 10 grams of marijuana, punishing it instead with fines.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-illinois-marijuana-legalization-proposal-met-20170322-story.html


39 states improved their medical cannabis laws last year
https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/10-best-worst-states-medical-cannabis


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 26, 2017, 11:10:46 am
Medical or recreational marijuana will be legalized in all states by 2021, firm predicts
Several states in the Deep South are changing the way they regulate marijuana

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/medical-or-recreational-marijuana-will-be-legalized-in-all-states-by-2021-firm-predicts-032017.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 27, 2017, 08:24:38 am
Trudeau government to legalize marijuana by Canada Day 2018
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/03/26/trudeau-government-to-legalize-marijuana-by-canada-day-2018-reports.html

Basically, the national government in Canada will regulate marijuana at the national level and leave the details up to the states.  It seems similar to the way the Feds in the US have handled alcohol since the end of prohibition.

Does this ever throw a wrench into the US War on Drugs.  It harms the perception that only fringe crazy countries legalize drugs.  It adds another front to the war (Mexico, SA/Caribbean, plants grown in the US, and now the great white north).  It will likely add to the evidence that legalizing marijuana isn't an apocalyptic event.  Perhaps most telling, it is another sign that our partners in the war on drugs are shifting gears away from American leadership on the issue. 

But don't worry, the current administration is going to win the war on drugs.  We just need to keep doing the same thing and eventually the outcome will change. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: PonderInc on March 29, 2017, 05:13:47 pm
Did anyone notice that the OK Supreme Court ruled that Pruitt's "re-wording" of the ballot initiative question on medical marijuana was improper?

http://www.news9.com/story/35017633/oklahoma-supreme-court-rules-on-medical-marijuana-ballot-question (http://www.news9.com/story/35017633/oklahoma-supreme-court-rules-on-medical-marijuana-ballot-question)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 29, 2017, 09:31:59 pm
Did anyone notice that the OK Supreme Court ruled that Pruitt's "re-wording" of the ballot initiative question on medical marijuana was improper?

http://www.news9.com/story/35017633/oklahoma-supreme-court-rules-on-medical-marijuana-ballot-question (http://www.news9.com/story/35017633/oklahoma-supreme-court-rules-on-medical-marijuana-ballot-question)




Mike Hunter, who succeeded Pruitt as Oklahoma Attorney General, said he disagreed with the Supreme Court's decision.
“The Office of the Attorney General discharged its responsibilities in rewriting the ballot title for State Question 788," Hunter said in a statement. "The ballot title was reviewed by the Oklahoma Supreme Court and the Court opted to substitute the original ballot title language.

http://newsok.com/article/5543244

Oh I see, its the Supreme Court doing the "substituting," not Pruitt.  Yes, failure is somebody else's fault.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 18, 2017, 12:51:59 pm
Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin signed a bill Monday amending Oklahoma's definition of marijuana.

With House Bill 1559, any federally approved cannabidiol (CBD) drug or substance will not be considered marijuana.
No cannabidiol drug has been approved yet by the Food and Drug Administration, however.

http://newsok.com/article/5545797



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 25, 2017, 11:16:09 pm
Scott Pruitt's pollution was cleaned up and its all ready to be voted on:

https://ballotpedia.org/Oklahoma_State_Question_788,_Medical_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2018) (https://ballotpedia.org/Oklahoma_State_Question_788,_Medical_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2018))


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 26, 2017, 08:07:56 am
Scott Pruitt's pollution was cleaned up and its all ready to be voted on:

https://ballotpedia.org/Oklahoma_State_Question_788,_Medical_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2018)


Link didn't work for me...


Edit;
Ahhh....final elipse had to be added manually...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: guido911 on June 29, 2017, 01:05:18 am
Saw a couple of head shops up in Alaska two weeks ago. I'd post pictures but I do not know how from my phone.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 29, 2017, 10:55:56 am
Saw a couple of head shops up in Alaska two weeks ago. I'd post pictures but I do not know how from my phone.

That was a cat, and the sounds it was making were not a ringtone.  I hope you're not driving.  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: guido911 on July 01, 2017, 12:37:02 am
That was a cat, and the sounds it was making were not a ringtone.  I hope you're not driving.  ;D

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/cheech.gif)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 09, 2017, 06:12:30 pm
It seems a survey linking cannabis to cardiovascular problems didnt take into account the medical history of their respondents. 
Hint: Sick people sometimes use marijuana as medicine.


http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2017/08/study_linking_cardiovascular_d.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 09, 2017, 10:15:11 pm
It seems a survey linking cannabis to cardiovascular problems didnt take into account the medical history of their respondents. 
Hint: Sick people sometimes use marijuana as medicine.


http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2017/08/study_linking_cardiovascular_d.html



It seems like a pretty useless study unless we assume that the consumers in the study were also eating massive quantities of Frito Lay and Ben & Jerry’s products after smoking the weed.

I actually had a casual conversation last night with a couple of MD’s in Colorado about the stress-relieving affects which might be beneficial for people with heart disease.  It’s interesting in a state where use is now legal that some in the mainstream medical community are coming out in favor of certain benefits of MJ use.  One has been using the oil to treat himself for prostate cancer.  He said his PSA’s have been stable but not diminishing.  On the other hand, he did say riding his bike up Vail Pass is a lot more pleasurable after having a little oil first  8)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 09, 2017, 10:24:02 pm
It seems like a pretty useless study unless we assume that the consumers in the study were also eating massive quantities of Frito Lay and Ben & Jerry’s products after smoking the weed.

I actually had a casual conversation last night with a couple of MD’s in Colorado about the stress-relieving affects which might be beneficial for people with heart disease.  It’s interesting in a state where use is now legal that some in the mainstream medical community are coming out in favor of certain benefits of MJ use.  One has been using the oil to treat himself for prostate cancer.  He said his PSA’s have been stable but not diminishing.  On the other hand, he did say riding his bike up Vail Pass is a lot more pleasurable after having a little oil first  8)

If you're talking about Cannnibidiol oil, it's likely your friend isn't feeling any psychotropic effects of MJ, since that extract has virtually no THC in it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 09, 2017, 11:10:25 pm
If you're talking about Cannnibidiol oil, it's likely your friend isn't feeling any psychotropic effects of MJ, since that extract has virtually no THC in it.

It’s all new to me, but they were discussing that there are different ratios of CBD to THC due to different types of therapy or psychoactive effect someone is looking for out of the oil.  In other words, you can “fine-tune” your high or whatever you are trying to treat or whatever benefits you are looking for.

I can’t vouch for the scholarly value of the content of the link but it was an easy link to illustrate the concept of varying ratios of CBD to THC and that they do exist.  Anything containing much THC would probably never be approved for use in Oklahoma because, you know, people would become promiscuous and all the other bad things which happen with gateway drugs.   ::)

https://www.zamnesia.com/blog-the-benefits-of-different-cbd-thc-ratios-n1323

I’ve been exposed to a whole different view of medicine since we moved out west.  Our primary care doc is an MD, but she was very up front about not being a pill pusher which was great by me.  She highly recommended acupuncture for a certain condition I would have never thought of.  She really seems to have more of the DO philosophy as I understand it.  I’m also seeing and hearing of more doctors starting to push back against the opioid epidemic.  Cannabis seems to have promise at replacing opioids in some cases.

The most fascinating part is these are not young doctors:  Our PCP said she’s 65, the two MD’s we were chatting with last night are late 60’s and early ’70’s (the one talking about Vail Pass).  I’d think older docs would be more set in the old ways and not as open-minded.  Maybe I’ve found the only three in the entire country who think more progressively amongst their peer group but it seems to be more than a coincidence.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 10, 2017, 09:55:42 am
It’s all new to me, but they were discussing that there are different ratios of CBD to THC due to different types of therapy or psychoactive effect someone is looking for out of the oil.  In other words, you can “fine-tune” your high or whatever you are trying to treat or whatever benefits you are looking for.

I can’t vouch for the scholarly value of the content of the link but it was an easy link to illustrate the concept of varying ratios of CBD to THC and that they do exist.  Anything containing much THC would probably never be approved for use in Oklahoma because, you know, people would become promiscuous and all the other bad things which happen with gateway drugs.   ::)

https://www.zamnesia.com/blog-the-benefits-of-different-cbd-thc-ratios-n1323

I’ve been exposed to a whole different view of medicine since we moved out west.  Our primary care doc is an MD, but she was very up front about not being a pill pusher which was great by me.  She highly recommended acupuncture for a certain condition I would have never thought of.  She really seems to have more of the DO philosophy as I understand it.  I’m also seeing and hearing of more doctors starting to push back against the opioid epidemic.  Cannabis seems to have promise at replacing opioids in some cases.

The most fascinating part is these are not young doctors:  Our PCP said she’s 65, the two MD’s we were chatting with last night are late 60’s and early ’70’s (the one talking about Vail Pass).  I’d think older docs would be more set in the old ways and not as open-minded.  Maybe I’ve found the only three in the entire country who think more progressively amongst their peer group but it seems to be more than a coincidence.


Would be nice if we could get some of that progressive treatment thought process going on here.   I would bet on the proposition that a very large amount of opioid use could be eliminated if a little bit of MJ was available from time to time.  Many times, pain treatment needs just a little tiny bit of help beyond tylenol/aspirin that a nice homemade brownie or properly crafted chocolate chip cookie would take care of very nicely.  But instead, we are forced into the extreme drugs...  It's like a medical version of knee-jerk reaction due to political BS...









Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 10, 2017, 10:15:49 am
I know several people here that are using CBD oil for arthritic and other chronic pain (mainly lower back pain) with great success and a couple of them have actually gotten off pills for pain relief. As for the strength, most of the pot shops here essentially custom make blends for people by starting out with a known strength and work up from that point.

If it gets people off of opioids and NSAID's I think it's a great idea.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 10, 2017, 10:36:28 am
I know several people here that are using CBD oil for arthritic and other chronic pain (mainly lower back pain) with great success and a couple of them have actually gotten off pills for pain relief. As for the strength, most of the pot shops here essentially custom make blends for people by starting out with a known strength and work up from that point.

If it gets people off of opioids and NSAID's I think it's a great idea.

One friend I have swears the CBD oil he gets from a local vape shop has eliminated his Petit Mal seizures.  Maybe so, maybe a placebo effect.. He's too "rich" for Obamacare and too poor to see a PCP on any sort of regular basis so its a leap of faith.
I do wonder if the over-the-counter CBD oil from vape shops is even the real thing...one of those times when one might welcome a moderate amount of government regulation.

Just not too much.  Conan's "crafted chocolate chip cookie," as well as the infused gummy bears etc. are targets of so much deliberate misinformation, mostly from entities on the receiving end of grant money that can be traced back to Big Pharma or Anheuser-Busch.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 10, 2017, 12:21:13 pm
I know several people here that are using CBD oil for arthritic and other chronic pain (mainly lower back pain) with great success and a couple of them have actually gotten off pills for pain relief. As for the strength, most of the pot shops here essentially custom make blends for people by starting out with a known strength and work up from that point.

If it gets people off of opioids and NSAID's I think it's a great idea.

And that mindset is why it will be a fight.  Big pharma is feeling threatened.  Unless they can get in on the cultivation, they'll fight this tooth and nail via lobbying.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 10, 2017, 01:43:43 pm
And that mindset is why it will be a fight.  Big pharma is feeling threatened.  Unless they can get in on the cultivation, they'll fight this tooth and nail via lobbying.

I don’t understand why they would fight it when they can develop a great revenue stream making extracts or developing new strains.  Someone is making good money off acetylsalicylic acid and other NSAIDs.  This literally looks like a wonder drug and the side effects are minimal.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 03, 2017, 01:30:58 pm
And that mindset is why it will be a fight.  Big pharma is feeling threatened.  Unless they can get in on the cultivation, they'll fight this tooth and nail via lobbying.


Atlanta’s city council decided unanimously to decriminalize marijuana Monday night. They voted 15-0 to make the penalty for possession of one ounce or less a $75 fine — a move that aims to neutralize uneven policing and enforcement of drug laws in the city.

Previously:

    Washington, D.C. passed Initiative 71, which made it legal for adults 21 years of age or older to possess less than two ounces of marijuana after February 26, 2015.
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania passed a law, which took effect at the beginning of 2016, that makes possession of less than an ounce punishable with a $25 fine. Those caught smoking marijuana and in possession of less than an ounce face a $100 fine.
    Kansas City voters approved a measure in April that lowered fines to $25 and removed jail time for possession of 35 grams of cannabis or less.
http://fortune.com/2017/10/03/list-of-cities-that-decriminalized-marijuana/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on October 04, 2017, 07:23:45 am

Sounds like a great idea.   Who wants to propose that to GT so that it can start to get traction?

Anyone know how much the city makes in fines vs. housing costs/etc. on municipal marijuana charges?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 05, 2017, 12:06:13 pm
Sounds like a great idea.   Who wants to propose that to GT so that it can start to get traction?

Anyone know how much the city makes in fines vs. housing costs/etc. on municipal marijuana charges?



You can see by the examples there is no one-size-fits-all initiative; we would have to identify what comes closest to our community standards. 
I can see where public consumption would be a no-go but sitting on your couch at home before bedtime OK. 
Driving under the influence would still be banned, but we should be more scientific in how we make that determination:

Bogus Stoned Driving Arrests Highlight Dubious Methods of 'Drug Recognition Experts'
http://reason.com/blog/2017/09/28/bogus-stoned-driving-arrests-highlight-t

You are no more "under the influence" if you have residual metabolites in your system than you are drunk from a beer you drank three days ago.


Citizens of Eureka Springs and Fayetteville have voted to make adult marijuana possession offenses the lowest law enforcement priority. Marijuana continues to be illegal in those two cities, but police officers and other law officials don’t make enforcing cannabis laws a top priority.

Simple and straightforward.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 08, 2017, 07:36:22 am
...and we are able to learn from others experience:

Cannabis legalization helps solves many problems: it eases the toll of the opioid epidemic; it creates jobs; it generates tax revenue; and it keeps cannabis out of the hands of minors. But for all the good cannabis does, we can’t lose sight of public health concerns that must be solved in order to successfully implant legalization across the U.S. and beyond.
https://www.leafly.com/news/health/study-finds-top-5-causes-of-cannabis-related-emergency-visits


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 11, 2017, 12:14:57 am
So here is how the first distribution of taxes from pot sales was distributed.

Quote
The checks are in the mail.
That's the message the Oregon Department of Revenue sent Friday when it announced it will pay out $85 million in marijuana taxes for schools, public health, police and local governments by next week.
The payouts represent the first distributions of state marijuana tax revenues since Oregon opened its legal recreational cannabis market.

Oregon collected a total of $108.6 million in state and local taxes between Jan. 4, 2016, and Aug. 31, 2017. The state put $9.56 million toward the Oregon Liquor Control Commission’s “start-up costs” for regulating the industry and toward the Department of Revenue's work to collect the taxes.
The rest was divvied up according to a formula spelled out by law: The state school fund gets 40 percent, or $34 million; mental health, alcoholism and drug services get 20 percent, or $17 million; Oregon State Police get 15 percent, or $12.75 million, and the Oregon Health Authority gets 5 percent, which comes to $4.25 million.
Anthony Johnson, the chief petitioner of Measure 91, which legalized recreational cannabis sales in Oregon, said the amount of tax revenue exceeded supporters’ early projections. He hopes the idea of marijuana taxes flowing into schools and public health and safety spur other states to legalize marijuana, he said.
“I am glad to hear that the revenue is finally being distributed,” Johnson said. “This is what the voters intended. It shows that legalizing and regulating cannabis can help generate revenue for important governmental services.”

http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2017/10/oregon_pays_out_85_million_in_1.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2017/10/oregon_pays_out_85_million_in_1.html)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on October 11, 2017, 07:55:36 am
So, a net of $85 million in additional tax revenue (after the costs of enforcement).  What other costs/benefits?

The number of people accused of driving under the influence of marijuana increased by 31 people.
http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2016/06/oregon_marks_1_year_anniversar.html

Studies suggest high school kids may be avoiding binge drinking in favor of marijuana:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/marijuana-legalization-college-students/530607/

There were 10,000+ less people receiving citations for simple possession of marijuana.

There were 2,000+ less people arrested for possession of marijuana.   
http://www.politifact.com/oregon/statements/2014/jul/18/new-approach-oregon/were-12808-people-oregon-arrested-marijuana-relate/
http://www.oregon.gov/osp/CJIS/docs/2013%20Annual%20Report%20-%20All%20sections-revised-08-06-15.pdf

2500 new jobs in one year, with an economic impact of $200,000,000 in year 1.  Expected to ultimately create 12,000 jobs when fully implemented (including research and production).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2016/05/19/oregon-marijuana-jobs/84633414/

Signs that legalized marijuana might reduce opiate abuse (too early to draw a conclusion):
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/legalized-marijuana-could-help-curb-opioid-epidemic-study-finds-n739301


That's about all I could find:

Positives:
Job creators.
Hundreds of millions in economic impact.
Far fewer resources spent on arrests.
$100+ million in new tax revenue (counting payroll taxes).

Neutral?
High school kids switching fro binge drinking to marijuana.  Kids smoking marijuana certainly isn't good, but neither is binge drinking.

Negatives:
+31 people accused of impaired driving.


Obviously there will be more longer term studies.  But States like Oklahoma are being provided with a great opportunity to sit back and watch how others do it. What works, what doesn't.  Then compare it to the status quo and make an informed decision. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 11, 2017, 09:23:28 am

Neutral?
High school kids switching fro binge drinking to marijuana.  Kids smoking marijuana certainly isn't good, but neither is binge drinking.

Obviously there will be more longer term studies.  But States like Oklahoma are being provided with a great opportunity to sit back and watch how others do it. What works, what doesn't.  Then compare it to the status quo and make an informed decision.  



Switching from binge drinking to marijuana is NOT neutral.  If she had been smoking a joint, Laura Bush would have been much less likely to kill her high school sweetheart in a drunk driving event.  It is an improvement (Pro).


As for Oklahoma making an informed decision - even with massive amounts of data about what works and what doesn't - that ain't gonna happen.  We know what happens when you gut education, but we still are doing it in wholesale fashion.  And doing nothing to correct the problem even years into it.   Unless you can figure out a way to keep all the 'mouth-breathers' at home on election day and limit voting to people with a thought process.  (And no, it doesn't have to be a 'liberal' thought process - see how Kansas is trying to recover from their insanity with a conservative majority.  It just takes real thought.)





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on October 11, 2017, 01:29:45 pm

Switching from binge drinking to marijuana is NOT neutral.  If she had been smoking a joint, Laura Bush would have been much less likely to kill her high school sweetheart in a drunk driving event.  It is an improvement (Pro).

As for Oklahoma making an informed decision - even with massive amounts of data about what works and what doesn't - that ain't gonna happen.  We know what happens when you gut education, but we still are doing it in wholesale fashion.  And doing nothing to correct the problem even years into it.   Unless you can figure out a way to keep all the 'mouth-breathers' at home on election day and limit voting to people with a thought process.  (And no, it doesn't have to be a 'liberal' thought process - see how Kansas is trying to recover from their insanity with a conservative majority.  It just takes real thought.)

Man, we really need an UpVote, or +1 type thing for this site.   

I just made the Kansas comparison last night in a discussion.  KS hit bottom hard, and is now having to figure how to do it right, or as close as they can get.   OK hasn't quite hit bottom yet, but we are getting closer...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on October 11, 2017, 11:18:22 pm
So, a net of $85 million in additional tax revenue (after the costs of enforcement).  What other costs/benefits?

The number of people accused of driving under the influence of marijuana increased by 31 people.
http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2016/06/oregon_marks_1_year_anniversar.html

Studies suggest high school kids may be avoiding binge drinking in favor of marijuana:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/marijuana-legalization-college-students/530607/

There were 10,000+ less people receiving citations for simple possession of marijuana.

There were 2,000+ less people arrested for possession of marijuana.   
http://www.politifact.com/oregon/statements/2014/jul/18/new-approach-oregon/were-12808-people-oregon-arrested-marijuana-relate/
http://www.oregon.gov/osp/CJIS/docs/2013%20Annual%20Report%20-%20All%20sections-revised-08-06-15.pdf

2500 new jobs in one year, with an economic impact of $200,000,000 in year 1.  Expected to ultimately create 12,000 jobs when fully implemented (including research and production).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2016/05/19/oregon-marijuana-jobs/84633414/

Signs that legalized marijuana might reduce opiate abuse (too early to draw a conclusion):
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/legalized-marijuana-could-help-curb-opioid-epidemic-study-finds-n739301


That's about all I could find:

Positives:
Job creators.
Hundreds of millions in economic impact.
Far fewer resources spent on arrests.
$100+ million in new tax revenue (counting payroll taxes).

Neutral?
High school kids switching fro binge drinking to marijuana.  Kids smoking marijuana certainly isn't good, but neither is binge drinking.

Negatives:
+31 people accused of impaired driving.


Obviously there will be more longer term studies.  But States like Oklahoma are being provided with a great opportunity to sit back and watch how others do it. What works, what doesn't.  Then compare it to the status quo and make an informed decision. 

Any thoughts on the impact of local and county municipalities losing the revenue on possession and simple possession fines?  Just curious how this trades out with the tax revenue benefits. 

The decades-long prohibition on MJ has been a huge failure and ruined many lives. I'm thinking primarily the lives wasted by sending small time dealers to prison for years, people turning to other, more deleterious substances to control pain or anxiety and who have died as a result.  Hopefully, Oklahoma will see the light one of these days.  You can take something which costs the state millions in enforcement and incarceration costs every year and turn it into a tax windfall.  As CF points out, a whopping 31 more people were arrested for driving under the influence of it.  You could have had a marginal increase like that in one year even if it were still banned.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on October 12, 2017, 07:16:34 am
I thought about the loss of fine revenue - but with that lost revenue comes decreased expenditures on enforcement, courts, and lockups when fines aren't paid. With 10k tickets, even if they netted $100 off of each one the result is only $1mil in revenue.  Each ticket would have to net $10k (and be paid in full) to make it a break even from a pure revenue standpoint.

A quick search didn't turn up what the fine used to be, and of course there isn't likely to be a net result in the data anyway.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 12, 2017, 12:18:34 pm
I thought about the loss of fine revenue - but with that lost revenue comes decreased expenditures on enforcement, courts, and lockups when fines aren't paid. With 10k tickets, even if they netted $100 off of each one the result is only $1mil in revenue.  Each ticket would have to net $10k (and be paid in full) to make it a break even from a pure revenue standpoint.

A quick search didn't turn up what the fine used to be, and of course there isn't likely to be a net result in the data anyway.

We are constantly told voters want more cops on the street.  Trimming the bloat out of elite drug task force assignments might sound good to everyone except the police in elite drug task forces.
Hiring more cops sounds logical but some academy years result in fewer patrol officers - not more - because as soon as a new recruit moves into a patrol position a cop with seniority moves up, into specialty positions like prostitution and drugs.  That revolving-door approach provides an excuse for not making better use of our resources.

As for what revenue might be in jeopardy...

Cops and prosecutors will have jobs whether weed is legal or not, but Mason Tvert, spokesperson for the Marijuana Policy Project, a group that is coordinating and financing legalization campaigns across the U.S., noted that millions of dollars worth of anti-narcotics funding are potentially at stake. And whether the campaign contributions are coming from a pharmaceutical company or a prison guard union, he said, keeping marijuana illegal often boosts donors’ bottom lines — and ensures that nonviolent users and suppliers will keep ending up behind bars.

“These people are trying to basically allow the continued criminalization of thousands and thousands of adults in order to continue making money,” Tvert said. “That’s kinda shady.”
https://news.vice.com/story/heres-who-bankrolls-the-fight-against-marijuana-legalization


Its no surprise that organized crime is donating to police unions to stop marijuana legalization, as well as the alcohol and pharmaceutical lobbies, but the list now includes casinos, the trucking unions and donors like U-Haul.
http://fortune.com/2016/10/19/marijuana-legalization-opponents-funders


A maker of deadly painkillers is bankrolling the opposition to legal marijuana in Arizona
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/09/a-maker-of-deadly-painkillers-is-bankrolling-the-opposition-to-legal-marijuana-in-arizona


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 23, 2017, 12:06:21 pm

We know what happens when you gut education, but we still are doing it in wholesale fashion.  And doing nothing to correct the problem even years into it.


But they need that education money to fight "The War" and any efforts to reign in its excesses.  ::)

“Oklahoma is bleeding teachers and cutting services to the mentally ill while wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on mass incarceration of nonviolent offenders,” Steele said.

“Instead of wasting money on failed policies that don't make us safer, Oklahoma voters have clearly stated they favor utilizing taxpayer funds more efficiently to actually help Oklahomans and increase public safety,” he added.

http://newsok.com/we-are-going-to-have-to-stop-a-lot-of-legislation-oklahoma-sheriffs-group-says-of-2018-session/article/5569052

On a local level, our mayor may very well be in favor of joining other cities who no longer regard private cannabis use as a law enforcement priority, but he also may be politically handcuffed by powerful, un-elected entities telling him what he must do to be re-elected.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 25, 2017, 09:58:40 am
Since 2013, Police in St. Louis had the option to issue court summonses to first- and second-time offenders who are caught with less than 35 grams of pot, essentially turning a criminal infraction into a municipal one. Those arrested could be released with a court summons instead of being booked in city jail.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/new-bill-would-allow-for-use-sale-and-growth-of/article_dde3de1a-e78f-5ed3-a9fd-ff18e7eb4de3.html


Meanwhile,

Fifty-one percent of Republicans surveyed by Gallup this month said they support legalization, up sharply from 42 percent a year ago. Even larger majorities of independents (67 percent) and Democrats (72 percent) are in favor of legal marijuana.

Overall, 64 percent of Americans now support legalization, the highest percentage ever in Gallup polling.

“The national discussion surrounding marijuana enforcement efforts continues to evolve,” the federal Drug Enforcement Administration wrote in its just-released 2017 National Drug Threat Assessment. Despite the drug's widespread availability even in states where it hasn't been legalized, marijuana remains at the bottom of law enforcement agencies' drug priorities.

Meanwhile, many of opponents' fears about marijuana legalization don't appear to be panning out. States that have legalized pot are also beginning to reap some of the benefits of the policy change, including job growth, tax revenue and even some evidence of slowing in the opiate epidemic.

The sharp shift in Republican voters' views on pot is the most significant finding in the Gallup poll, coming during a time of increased federal skepticism of marijuana legalization efforts. Attorney General Jeff Sessions has asked lawmakers to undo federal protections for medical marijuana, repeatedly calling it a “dangerous drug.”

But greater support for legalization could complicate any administration efforts to crack down on pot. "Attorney General Jeff Sessions could find himself out of step with his own party if the current trends continue,” Gallup wrote.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/25/for-the-first-time-a-majority-of-republicans-support-marijuana-legalization


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 14, 2017, 02:35:37 pm
Drug companies dropped almost one half million dollars promoting opiod medications to Oklahoma doctors from 2013 to 2016 The Frontier is reporting.  The article is well worth a full read.

Quote
A pharmaceutical company accused of bribing doctors to boost sales of its synthetic opioid medication gave tens of thousands of dollars to Oklahoma doctors over the past four years in connection with the medication, an investigation by The Frontier has found.

All told, pharmaceutical companies paid nearly half a million dollars to more than 1,300 Oklahoma physicians between 2013 and 2016 promoting opioid prescription drugs, according to doctor payment data from the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

And though most physicians received less than $100 from companies promoting opioid medications (usually in the form of meal payments), some received tens of thousands of dollars for speaking engagements, consulting and travel, according to the data.

The company with the largest amount of payments to Oklahoma doctors was Insys Therapeutics, an Arizona-based company and manufacturer of the powerful painkiller brand-named Subsys, meant for use by some cancer patients....

....Nearly 85 percent of the $173,729 Insys spent on doctors in Oklahoma during that time went to only two Tulsa physicians, the data shows. Dr. Terri Lynne White, a partner of Pain Management of Tulsa, received $91,816 from Insys, and Dr. Venkatesh Movva, who has since moved to Texas, received $55,055. Most of the payments came in the form of speaking payments, according to the CMS data.

Payments for speaking engagements, travel or meals to doctors by pharmaceutical companies or medical device manufacturers promoting a drug or product are legal, but must be reported to the federal government.

Though full publicly-available prescription data for Subsys is limited, White and Movva were two of only three doctors in the state to file claims with the Medicare Part D prescription drug program between 2013 and 2015, according to data from CMS.

Together, both doctors prescribed more than $2.3 million worth of Subsys through the Medicare Part D program during that time.

The third doctor shown as prescribing Subsys through Medicare Part D was Oklahoma City doctor Harvey Jenkins Jr., who is facing unrelated charges of overprescribing opioids to patients. Jenkins, whose medical license was suspended in 2015 and was charged in 2016, prescribed $333,469 worth of the drug from 2014 to 2015, the CMS prescription data shows.

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/opioid-drug-company-at-center-of-national-doctor-bribery-scandal-gave-tens-of-thousands-to-oklahoma/?utm_source=Masterlist&utm_campaign=ecc7483bba-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_11_14&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_148cc072fd-ecc7483bba-80435241


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 17, 2017, 11:31:04 am
Drug companies dropped almost one half million dollars promoting opiod medications to Oklahoma doctors from 2013 to 2016 The Frontier is reporting.  The article is well worth a full read.

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/opioid-drug-company-at-center-of-national-doctor-bribery-scandal-gave-tens-of-thousands-to-oklahoma/

The Frontier is good journalism, but can it counter bad TV news?

A case report about the seizure and death of an 11-month old after exposure to cannabis has prompted headlines about “the first marijuana overdose death” this week.

Except that’s not what the doctors meant.

“We are absolutely not saying that marijuana killed that child,” said Thomas Nappe, an author of the report who is now the director of medical toxicology at St. Luke’s University Health Network in Bethlehem, Pa.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/11/17/the-truth-behind-the-first-marijuana-overdose-death/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 20, 2017, 09:36:25 am
The Frontier is good journalism, but can it counter bad TV news?

A case report about the seizure and death of an 11-month old after exposure to cannabis has prompted headlines about “the first marijuana overdose death” this week.

Except that’s not what the doctors meant.

“We are absolutely not saying that marijuana killed that child,” said Thomas Nappe, an author of the report who is now the director of medical toxicology at St. Luke’s University Health Network in Bethlehem, Pa.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/11/17/the-truth-behind-the-first-marijuana-overdose-death/

Reefer Madness Syndrome.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 03, 2017, 01:08:14 pm
Tulsa forum to focus on medical marijuana
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/tulsa-forum-to-focus-on-medical-marijuana/article_d025378a-c13a-581b-856a-9b6a58153be6.html

Maybe we will get to vote on this in a year ...out of respect for our opioid pharma campaign donors.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 15, 2017, 05:34:09 pm
Texas may be a model of the most corrupt medical marijuana laws in the nation.
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/texas-news/ap-texas-among-last-states-ok-medical-marijuana/499761386

Among the concerns are the license fees to grow marijuana in Texas — which are the highest in the U.S., at nearly $500,000
The dispensary licensing fee is 80 times more than originally recommended. The Texas Department of Public Safety once proposed a fee as high as $1.3 million to help offset the costs of state troopers patrolling the dispensaries.



Meanwhile on the lighted side of the planet:

A compound in marijuana appears to be relatively safe and nonaddictive, according to a new report from the World Health Organization (WHO).
In an initial review of existing research, the WHO found that the compound, called cannabidiol or CBD, is "generally well-tolerated with a good safety profile," according to the November report. In addition, the compound appears to have "no effects indicative of any abuse or dependence potential," the report found.
https://www.livescience.com/61213-marijuana-cannabidiol-world-health-organization.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 15, 2017, 09:57:05 pm
Texas may be a model of the most corrupt medical marijuana laws in the nation.
http://www.wfaa.com/news/local/texas-news/ap-texas-among-last-states-ok-medical-marijuana/499761386

Among the concerns are the license fees to grow marijuana in Texas — which are the highest in the U.S., at nearly $500,000
The dispensary licensing fee is 80 times more than originally recommended. The Texas Department of Public Safety once proposed a fee as high as $1.3 million to help offset the costs of state troopers patrolling the dispensaries.



Meanwhile on the lighted side of the planet:

A compound in marijuana appears to be relatively safe and nonaddictive, according to a new report from the World Health Organization (WHO).
In an initial review of existing research, the WHO found that the compound, called cannabidiol or CBD, is "generally well-tolerated with a good safety profile," according to the November report. In addition, the compound appears to have "no effects indicative of any abuse or dependence potential," the report found.
https://www.livescience.com/61213-marijuana-cannabidiol-world-health-organization.html

They make it sound as if the WHO just now discovered CBD exists.

All sorts of balms, lotions, and edibles like honey with CBD and chile in it around this area.  My understanding is CBD is now legal to possess in all 50 states.  Our personal experience is mixed on it as an analgesic but many friends swear by it and the honey is a bit funky tasting.  It's great they've been able to split out the compounds for various benefits.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 17, 2017, 01:39:05 pm
They make it sound as if the WHO just now discovered CBD exists.

.  It's great they've been able to split out the compounds for various benefits.


But mostly great that a large corporate entity can now derive massive, virtually un-taxed monopolistic profits from it while preventing regular people from cultivating their own at essentially no, or at least very low cost if they so desired.   I am sure it must be good for jobs, too!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 17, 2017, 03:25:52 pm

But mostly great that a large corporate entity can now derive massive, virtually un-taxed monopolistic profits from it while preventing regular people from cultivating their own at essentially no, or at least very low cost if they so desired.   I am sure it must be good for jobs, too!!



Untaxed profits from MJ?  Where are you getting that?  I doubt people who want to grow their own aren't still doing so in places like Colorado, Oregon, or Washington.

As far as increased employment, you'd be surprised how many people work in a dispensary and in the manufacture of MJ and by-products, uh or so I'm told.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 17, 2017, 05:12:20 pm
Untaxed profits from MJ?  Where are you getting that?  I doubt people who want to grow their own aren't still doing so in places like Colorado, Oregon, or Washington.

As far as increased employment, you'd be surprised how many people work in a dispensary and in the manufacture of MJ and by-products, uh or so I'm told.


They can, though...grow their own.  There is an alternative if one wants to pursue it - grow your own.


I have been told about dispensaries - haven't been to a state yet for some reason...not sure why...good job making opportunities.

Still fuzzy - can get CBD legally, but still holding cannabis hostage in most states, prohibiting people from getting the health care of their choice.  Just like Republicans are trying to do in the overall health care market - keep us at number 38 in the world, so they and their "good buddies" can continue to rape and pillage the bottom 99%.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 07, 2018, 02:34:41 pm

Still fuzzy - can get CBD legally, but still holding cannabis hostage in most states, prohibiting people from getting the health care of their choice. 


Jeff Sessions reneged on the "hands off states rights" medical marijuana policy and showed the disconnect from reality he (and a handful of ideologists) share:

Scott Williams of the U.S. attorney's office in Oklahoma's western district: 
“Our primary focus is going to be on multi-state drug trafficking organizations” (stopping cars driving back from Colorado).

Brian Kuester, U.S. attorney for the Muskogee-based eastern district:
Sessions decision allows him to “protect the citizens of the eastern district” through partnerships with state, local and tribal law enforcement.

Trent Shores, U.S. attorney for the Tulsa-based northern district:
"Congress passed a law prohibiting the cultivation, distribution and possession of marijuana,” Shores said. “It is the job of the executive branch to enforce the laws enacted by Congress” to “turn back the tide of the drug crisis,” reducing crime and dismantling gangs... which seems a bit out of touch when we're discussing medical uses of cannabis.

Hours after Sessions' announcement, Gov. Mary Fallin set an election date — June 26 — for Oklahoma's medical marijuana proposal.

http://newsok.com/federal-prosecutors-in-oklahoma-now-have-more-power-over-pot-crimes.-will-they-use-it/article/5578508


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on January 07, 2018, 03:39:30 pm
I kinda like the fact that they have put it back on the table for Federal prosecution..

Think about it this way.   Rather than having a mismatch of state and local decriminalization/legal/not-legal/etc. this could force the national laws to really get their act together.

It should be enough that many states have enacted legal medical marijuana and a few (8?) have enacted recreational marijuana and yet still anarchy and mayhem haven't taken over.

Hopefully this will set the stage for a few impassioned senators and representatives to move forward to fix the problem instead of just putting on band-aids.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 07, 2018, 08:00:16 pm
I kinda like the fact that they have put it back on the table for Federal prosecution..

Think about it this way.   Rather than having a mismatch of state and local decriminalization/legal/not-legal/etc. this could force the national laws to really get their act together.

It should be enough that many states have enacted legal medical marijuana and a few (8?) have enacted recreational marijuana and yet still anarchy and mayhem haven't taken over.

Hopefully this will set the stage for a few impassioned senators and representatives to move forward to fix the problem instead of just putting on band-aids.

One would like to think so but fighting all the lobbying money from opiate manufacturers, professional prison management companies, and the general ignorance of people who have had "pot is bad" drilled into their heads for years is a difficult battle.

I have to laugh when I think of the western district of Oklahoma stopping cars coming from Colorado under suspicion of carrying since there are only two OHP patrolmen I can think of that I regularly see from the NM state line to Woodward.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on January 07, 2018, 09:25:33 pm
One would like to think so but fighting all the lobbying money from opiate manufacturers, professional prison management companies, and the general ignorance of people who have had "pot is bad" drilled into their heads for years is a difficult battle.

I remember one time reading (years ago) that the farmers of Humboldt county were some of the largest contributors to keeping weed illegal in California.    There is a lot of money in keeping something so simple illegal.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-marijuana-growers/california-marijuana-legalization-faces-unlikely-foe-growers-idUSKCN1240AF


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on January 08, 2018, 12:29:01 pm
Recreational Marijuana is now legal in Vegas.

Now the whole town smells like weed.

On the positive note, the crowds laughed way louder at the comedy shows I went to.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 08, 2018, 01:51:37 pm
Recreational Marijuana is now legal in Vegas.

Now the whole town smells like weed.

On the positive note, the crowds laughed way louder at the comedy shows I went to.

I bet the buffets are doing bustling business these days.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 08, 2018, 02:24:11 pm

One would like to think so but fighting all the lobbying money from opiate manufacturers, professional prison management companies, and the general ignorance of people who have had "pot is bad" drilled into their heads for years is a difficult battle.


Its not that difficult to put your thumb on the scale by strategic donations to state agencies with the stipulation the money goes to pay the overtime costs of targeted enforcement. 
Its going to be interesting to see if the GOP candidates for governor go full opposition or have an epiphany (or a loved one with cancer) and take a moderate approach.

Edmondson said placing the measure on the primary ballot as opposed to the general election in November, where turnout historically has been higher, Fallin is hoping to minimize the number of voters who decide the fate of the state question.

“This is an important issue and certainly one where all Oklahomans should vote — despite Governor Fallin’s efforts to stifle their voices”


http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/will-medical-marijuana-state-question-affect-gubernatorial-primary/article_eaa48842-ff98-5954-b77d-9cbde4e56848.html






Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 08, 2018, 08:02:03 pm

... the general ignorance of people who have had "pot is bad" drilled into their heads for years is a difficult battle.



Sometimes the drill is fairly recent.

http://www.gctelegram.com/news/20180108/updated-rep-steve-alford-cites-belief-blacks-more-susceptible-to-marijuana



An assistant police chief allegedly instructed a police recruit to shoot black minors if he were to catch them smoking marijuana
http://abcnews.go.com/US/louisville-area-assistant-police-chief-allegedly-instructed-recruit/story?id=52473136


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 08, 2018, 08:14:13 pm

Sometimes the drill is fairly recent.

http://www.gctelegram.com/news/20180108/updated-rep-steve-alford-cites-belief-blacks-more-susceptible-to-marijuana

The guy with the Jimmy Durante nose is really calling MJ a gateway drug and saying certain substances react with different races chemistry.  I wonder if anyone had the balls to ask him if he was born with that nose or drank his way into it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 10, 2018, 01:01:10 pm
Vermont Legislature becomes first in U.S. to legalize marijuana for recreational use
Republican Gov. Phil Scott indicated last month he would sign the legislation.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-vermont-legal-marijuana-20180110-story.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 17, 2018, 09:44:00 pm
New poll indicates voters would pass medical marijuana state question in Oklahoma

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/new-poll-indicates-voters-would-pass-medical-marijuana-state-question/article_ec48576d-af97-51d4-874f-757308e9ac41.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 28, 2018, 09:23:46 pm


8 things we now know that happen (and that don’t happen) when we legalize marijuana

1. Marijuana arrests plummeted.
2. But the racial disparities in marijuana arrests have not ended.
3. A tide of teenage weed heads is not unleashed upon the nation.
4. The highways remain safe.
5. States with legal marijuana have lower rates of opioid-related harm.
6. Marijuana tax revenues are big — and bigger than predicted.
7. Marijuana tax dollars are going for good things.
8. Legal marijuana is a job creation engine.

https://www.salon.com/2018/01/28/8-things-we-now-know-that-happen-and-that-do-not-happen-when-we-legalize-marijuana_partner/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 29, 2018, 03:42:36 pm

8 things we now know that happen (and that don’t happen) when we legalize marijuana

1. Marijuana arrests plummeted.
2. But the racial disparities in marijuana arrests have not ended.
3. A tide of teenage weed heads is not unleashed upon the nation.
4. The highways remain safe.
5. States with legal marijuana have lower rates of opioid-related harm.
6. Marijuana tax revenues are big — and bigger than predicted.
7. Marijuana tax dollars are going for good things.
8. Legal marijuana is a job creation engine.

https://www.salon.com/2018/01/28/8-things-we-now-know-that-happen-and-that-do-not-happen-when-we-legalize-marijuana_partner/


Well, this is all...you know...bad.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 16, 2018, 05:36:46 pm

(http://www.michigan.gov/images/lara/Conatins_THC_613985_7.jpg)

Universal symbol - upside down, green triangle - will grace medical marijuana products


https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/02/16/symbol-green-triangle-medical-marijuana-products/346363002/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 16, 2018, 07:51:07 pm
(http://www.michigan.gov/images/lara/Conatins_THC_613985_7.jpg)

Universal symbol - upside down, green triangle - will grace medical marijuana products


https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/02/16/symbol-green-triangle-medical-marijuana-products/346363002/

THC warnings already grace recreational and medical products in other states, or so I'm told.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on February 17, 2018, 12:40:04 am
(http://www.michigan.gov/images/lara/Conatins_THC_613985_7.jpg)

Universal symbol - upside down, green triangle - will grace medical marijuana products


https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/02/16/symbol-green-triangle-medical-marijuana-products/346363002/

Wouldn't know anything about that........

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BMTllMGYzNjktMzc1Ny00N2E1LWFmYzAtYmNiYTAyOGEyZGVjXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNzc5NjM0NA@@._V1_.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 17, 2018, 10:43:35 am


(http://www.michigan.gov/images/lara/Conatins_THC_613985_7.jpg)

Universal symbol - upside down, green triangle - will grace medical marijuana products

https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2018/02/16/symbol-green-triangle-medical-marijuana-products/346363002/



THC warnings already grace recreational and medical products in other states, or so I'm told.




If the visual reminds you of a certain Tulsa invention, the message might be "woah, kids!"   ;)

A universal labeling symbol takes the wind out of the propaganda that claims edibles target children rather than patients who cant tolerate smoke.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on February 17, 2018, 10:56:02 am


A universal labeling symbol takes the wind out of the propaganda that claims edibles target children rather than patients who cant tolerate smoke.

I vote they do away with edibles and go straight for the real winner...

".... such as oils, suppositories and patches ....."

Just kidding...   Someone said they had THC infused beef jerkey when they were in Vegas...   I guess the question is what can't you put weed into?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 17, 2018, 02:00:01 pm
I vote they do away with edibles and go straight for the real winner...

".... such as oils, suppositories and patches ....."

Just kidding...   Someone said they had THC infused beef jerkey when they were in Vegas...   I guess the question is what can't you put weed into?

I was wondering why you don't hear of MJ tea.  I read an article which stated something to the effect that THC needed to bond to a fat for efficacy so that is why the tinctures are generally oils.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 20, 2018, 11:23:11 pm

What Were the Consequences of Legalizing Weed in Colorado?
A newspaper editorial gets some facts right, and some wrong, in weighing up the consequences of Colorado's legalization of recreational marijuana.


https://www.snopes.com/legal-cannabis-colorado/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 21, 2018, 12:28:21 pm
One would like to think so but fighting all the lobbying money from opiate manufacturers, professional prison management companies, and the general ignorance of people who have had "pot is bad" drilled into their heads for years is a difficult battle.

I have to laugh when I think of the western district of Oklahoma stopping cars coming from Colorado under suspicion of carrying since there are only two OHP patrolmen I can think of that I regularly see from the NM state line to Woodward.



Headed to Tulsa to advocate for medical marijuana, Colorado scholar, activist instead arrested by OHP


https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/marijuana-activist-faces-felony-drug-charge-in-oklahoma/

A prominent Colorado medical marijuana activist faces felony drug charges after what she claim was an illegal search of their vehicle in Pittsburg County.


Although the trooper claims in a court affidavit that he stopped (Dr. Regina) Nelson for failing to use her turn signal, her attorney, Brecken Wagner, believes she was targeted because of the Colorado license plates on their rental car.
Nelson refused a search of the rental SUV she was driving, but the trooper found probable cause to search it anyway after he allegedly smelled marijuana, according to the affidavit.

Nelson and Browning have speaking engagements scheduled this week in Oklahoma City and Tulsa to promote State Question 788.




We know you will eventually prove the Earth isnt flat but the law says we burn you at the stake anyway.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 21, 2018, 01:09:27 pm
Well, if they were smoking a doobie and driving, bad on them.  I'm a little suspicious of what passes for "probable cause" though.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on February 21, 2018, 01:41:18 pm
Well, if they were smoking a doobie and driving, bad on them.  I'm a little suspicious of what passes for "probable cause" though.

At the expense of sounding a little like Patric ;) ....especially where the OHP is concerned.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 21, 2018, 01:42:09 pm
Well, if they were smoking a doobie and driving, bad on them.  I'm a little suspicious of what passes for "probable cause" though.

I agree on both points, but there was never any hint of DUI.
It was known who was coming when, so I would characterize it as a politically-motivated ambush.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on February 21, 2018, 01:48:04 pm
I agree on both points, but there was never any hint of DUI.
It was known who was coming when, so I would characterize it as a politically-motivated ambush.

There was a guy I knew in Stillwater who was big into NORML and the reform of drug laws group.   He knew he was going to always be a target for the cops so he made it a point never to have pot.

This lady sounds like she wasn't as smart...   (Traveling to a non-legal state with bags of pot?   Really?)


According to the affidavit, the trooper found several “rolled cigarettes with a green leafy substance” as well as two glass pipes, a peanut butter edible; a thermos filed with low-point beer; capsules filled with green oil and a backpack containing a digital scale and multiple baggies— also filled with a green leafy substance. A suitcase containing three large vacuum-sealed baggies of marijuana also was found in the car, according to the affidavit.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 21, 2018, 02:02:34 pm
There was a guy I knew in Stillwater who was big into NORML and the reform of drug laws group.   He knew he was going to always be a target for the cops so he made it a point never to have pot.

This lady sounds like she wasn't as smart...   (Traveling to a non-legal state with bags of pot?   Really?)


Also in agreement.  I expect more from a PhD, as im sure the DEA was eager to share her itinerary with the DPS.

Nelson and Browning plan to speak about their arrest at their next event with Oklahomans for Equality, 6 p.m. Thursday at the Black Box Theater, 621, E 4th Street in Tulsa. The event is part of Nelson’s 2018 Plant a Seed for Cannabis Education World Tour.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 21, 2018, 04:39:41 pm
Oklahoma is trying to stack the deck against MMJ by changing the rules on initiative petitions from being a percent of statewide voters to requiring that percentage in each of the 77 counties.  So basically, they are banking on the idea that rural counties will squelch the urban areas where people might be just a bit more enlightened on such matters.  We certainly don't want to screw things up for the opiate, alcohol, and private prison industries!

The Oklahoma Capitol seriously needs an enema.

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY — Apparently, some legislators are so concerned about recreational marijuana becoming legal in Oklahoma that they want to make it harder for initiative petitions to get on statewide ballots.

House Bill 1603, by Rep. John Enns, R-Enid, proposes a constitutional amendment that could increase the number of signatures required for initiative petitions to be placed on the ballot and would require that a minimum number of signatures be obtained in each of the state’s 77 counties.

“A lot of what’s going around in these other states, like legalization of recreational marijuana, has been done through initiative petition,” Enns said in explaining his bill to the House Rules Committee on Tuesday. “And (constituents) are like, ‘We don’t want to see that happen in Oklahoma.’”

“So really,” asked Rep. Melodye Blancett, D-Tulsa, “the issue here is the fear — this is a pre-emptive strike — regarding a fear that some marijuana bill will come up and become a state question?”

“It’s not a pre-emptive strike,” Enns replied. “It’s an effort to allow the rest of the state to have some say-so in the initiative petition process.”

Oklahomans will vote June 26 on a medical marijuana measure that was brought to the ballot through an initiative petition.

Currently, initiative petitions seeking a statutory change must gather a number of valid signatures equal to 8 percent of the state’s legal voters at the time of the last gubernatorial election. Constitutional amendments require 15 percent. Referenda, which allow voters to repeal legislative acts, require 5 percent.

Enns’ bill would require that those minimums be achieved in each of the 77 counties. It also would remove the provision that the number of signatures required be based on the number of legal voters in the last gubernatorial election. That would seem to leave open the question of how the baseline for determining the number of required signatures is to be determined.

Enns did not disagree when Rep. David Perryman, D-Chickasha, suggested that the baseline could become presidential elections, when voter registration typically peaks. That would mean a higher signature threshold. Enns said he would be willing to revert to the existing language on that point.

“As it stands right now,” he said, “a lot of the population centers around the state — also around the United States, for that matter — are controlling these kinds of referendums. It’s like the rural folks … don’t have any kind of say in the issue.

“My constituents are saying, ‘We’ve got to do something about this, because we don’t feel like we’re represented at all.’”

The bill now goes to the House floor.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/fear-of-recreational-marijuana-legalization-apparently-prompts-move-to-curb/article_d93b8fdf-9d5d-564d-930e-2bb3e481c051.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on February 21, 2018, 05:01:39 pm
Oklahoma is trying to stack the deck against MMJ by changing the rules on initiative petitions from being a percent of statewide voters to requiring that percentage in each of the 77 counties.  So basically, they are banking on the idea that rural counties will squelch the urban areas where people might be just a bit more enlightened on such matters.  We certainly don't want to screw things up for the opiate, alcohol, and private prison industries!

The Oklahoma Capitol seriously needs an enema.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/fear-of-recreational-marijuana-legalization-apparently-prompts-move-to-curb/article_d93b8fdf-9d5d-564d-930e-2bb3e481c051.html

(https://cdn3.whatculture.com/images/2014/06/JOKER-ENEMA.gif)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 21, 2018, 10:01:52 pm

“As it stands right now,” he said, “a lot of the population centers around the state — also around the United States, for that matter — are controlling these kinds of referendums. It’s like the rural folks … don’t have any kind of say in the issue.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/fear-of-recreational-marijuana-legalization-apparently-prompts-move-to-curb/article_d93b8fdf-9d5d-564d-930e-2bb3e481c051.html

Rural folks pretty much had their say when they repeatedly forced the state into Liquor-by-the-Wink over Liquor-by-the-Drink.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 23, 2018, 11:02:52 am
In a phone interview with the Tulsa World, Nelson contended the circumstances of the vehicle search and arrest were illegal. She said she was driving to Tulsa from the Dallas-Fort Worth area to visit family when the trooper pulled her over, claiming he told her he wanted to let her know about “the law around here” after noticing she had a plate from Colorado and that she did not properly use a turn signal.

“That was a targeted stop, so everything that happened after that really doesn’t matter,” Nelson said. “This is too common in Oklahoma. I’ve traveled here to see my family for years. I’ve heard too many stories from people being damaged by this.

“That one night I spent in jail in Pittsburg County — all three of us, who were separated, met someone who’s been a targeted stop off the Indian Nation Turnpike. And they’re not as fortunate to have the voice that I do.”

Nelson’s attorney, Brecken Wagner, said the trooper’s version of which traffic violation occurred was that Nelson did not use a turn signal at least 100 feet before entering the ramp — an offense for which he has never seen a traffic ticket in his career as a defense attorney.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/speakers-for-tulsa-cannabis-event-arrested-on-marijuana-charges-after/article_f116c22c-81f0-50ee-8b7b-a195f4065ead.html


"Our attorney confirmed that targeted stops are popular in that area. And ... we came to find — overnight in jail — all of us had a cellmate who was from out of state and believe they were caught in a targeted stop.

"Trooper Ashby Sutherland's words were: 'Well, technically, you may not have had your blinker on for more than 100 feet before the exit. And because I saw you had out-of-state plates, I thought you might ought to know the law here,'" she recalled.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on February 23, 2018, 11:09:24 am

Not to be cynical, but.   

I love how they are arguing the how/why she got caught, not the fact that it is fact illegal to take marijuana out of Colorado into ANY adjoining state.

Use whatever excuse you want, however you want to justify it, but until it is legal, you take a risk.    She gambled and lost. 



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 23, 2018, 11:46:16 am
Not to be cynical, but.   

I love how they are arguing the how/why she got caught, not the fact that it is fact illegal to take marijuana out of Colorado into ANY adjoining state.

Use whatever excuse you want, however you want to justify it, but until it is legal, you take a risk.    She gambled and lost. 


Two wrongs dont make a right, but yes you are legally correct.  Having said that, there should never be the crime of opportunity that lets someone say "I claim to smell something therefore I can do what I want."


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 23, 2018, 11:48:10 am
In a phone interview with the Tulsa World, Nelson contended the circumstances of the vehicle search and arrest were illegal. She said she was driving to Tulsa from the Dallas-Fort Worth area to visit family when the trooper pulled her over, claiming he told her he wanted to let her know about “the law around here” after noticing she had a plate from Colorado and that she did not properly use a turn signal.

“That was a targeted stop, so everything that happened after that really doesn’t matter,” Nelson said. “This is too common in Oklahoma. I’ve traveled here to see my family for years. I’ve heard too many stories from people being damaged by this.

“That one night I spent in jail in Pittsburg County — all three of us, who were separated, met someone who’s been a targeted stop off the Indian Nation Turnpike. And they’re not as fortunate to have the voice that I do.”

Nelson’s attorney, Brecken Wagner, said the trooper’s version of which traffic violation occurred was that Nelson did not use a turn signal at least 100 feet before entering the ramp — an offense for which he has never seen a traffic ticket in his career as a defense attorney.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/speakers-for-tulsa-cannabis-event-arrested-on-marijuana-charges-after/article_f116c22c-81f0-50ee-8b7b-a195f4065ead.html



I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist when it comes to cops but "Indian Nations Turnpike" clicked with me.

Five years ago, my wife and I were headed to a mountain bike race in ATX and I had to make business stops in Hugo and Paris, Tx.  We were just south of the north toll gate on the Indian Nations when we got pulled over by OHP, ostensibly because he could not see our car tag with the bicycles on the tray rack behind the car.  He muttered something about needing to add a supplemental tag to our rack when bikes are on so they can identify us better.  This happened during the morning hours.  Written or verbal warning and free to go.

That suddenly makes sense that he figured mountain bikes might mean dope, instead he got a couple of clean cut 40-somethings and no weed or alcohol odor.  I can't tell you how many times I've had another cop behind me either in the city or highway who didn't light me up for a mountain bike open-carry.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on February 23, 2018, 12:49:07 pm

I had one pull me over coming back from Texas around midnight.   "tag light out"    Looking back on it, I never fixed the tag light and haven't been pulled over since (2-3 years ago.)

Apparently a couple of 40 somethings with 3 kids in the car wasn't really who he was looking for either.

That being said, it is a boring, lonely stretch of road...  Probably hard to reach their required number of contacts (we don't use quotas anymore) without some randoms pulled over.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on February 23, 2018, 02:02:38 pm
Well-known medical marijuana advocates complaining to a Pittsburgh County judge that their car full of weed was improperly searched on a pretext is not likely to get a favorable outcome.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 23, 2018, 10:14:36 pm
Well-known medical marijuana advocates complaining to a Pittsburgh County judge that their car full of weed was improperly searched on a pretext is not likely to get a favorable outcome.

I believe the whole point of "justice for all" is not picking who has civil rights and who doesnt.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 24, 2018, 05:08:25 pm
I believe the whole point of "justice for all" is not picking who has civil rights and who doesnt.


Well, obviously, you don't really understand.  Justice for all who can afford it...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on February 26, 2018, 08:18:31 am
I believe the whole point of "justice for all" is not picking who has civil rights and who doesn't.

Many people would believe that she got justice.   Perhaps carrying and using marijuana in a state that doesn't believe it to be legal was a mistake. 

“That was a targeted stop, so everything that happened after that really doesn’t matter,” Nelson said. “This is too common in Oklahoma. I’ve traveled here to see my family for years. I’ve heard too many stories from people being damaged by this.

STILL not smart enough to leave the illegal substances at home?   Or at least left them in her suitcase until she got to her destination.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 26, 2018, 08:29:10 am
Many people would believe that she got justice.   Perhaps carrying and using marijuana in a state that doesn't believe it to be legal was a mistake. 

“That was a targeted stop, so everything that happened after that really doesn’t matter,” Nelson said. “This is too common in Oklahoma. I’ve traveled here to see my family for years. I’ve heard too many stories from people being damaged by this.

STILL not smart enough to leave the illegal substances at home?   Or at least left them in her suitcase until she got to her destination.

What she did is not much different than an Oklahoman walking into Madison Square Garden or Staples Center while open carrying.  Advocate all you like, but at least observe the laws of other states while doing so.  If she actually had sparked up while driving, regardless of the state, it makes advocates of MMJ look bad and gives the legislature more ammo in trying to fight MJ initiatives in Oklahoma.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on February 26, 2018, 08:33:13 am
What she did is not much different than an Oklahoman walking into Madison Square Garden or Staples Center while open carrying.  Advocate all you like, but at least observe the laws of other states while doing so.  If she actually had sparked up while driving, regardless of the state, it makes advocates of MMJ look bad and gives the legislature more ammo in trying to fight MJ initiatives in Oklahoma.

The article doesn't mention her smoking, but they had some in the cabin as well as some in the luggage.   But this sounds like more than personal use.

A trooper said he found a bag between Laufenberg’s feet that contained 11 green and black plastic containers with a “green leafy substance, a white container with oil capsules, herbal hand cream and peanut butter edible.”
.....
The traffic stop eventually led to the discovery of three large, vacuum-sealed bags containing “a green leafy substance,” as well as digital scales and baggies, the affidavit states.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 26, 2018, 09:53:20 am
The article doesn't mention her smoking, but they had some in the cabin as well as some in the luggage.   But this sounds like more than personal use.

"Browning, according to the affidavit, took ownership of the large bags of marijuana, saying he does not sell it but does share freely to anyone who asks."

Yes pretty much covered by the article. 
Her idea of philanthropy doesnt really help her cause.  Now a life sentence for that?  The laws need to change regardless.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 27, 2018, 01:26:22 pm
I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist when it comes to cops but "Indian Nations Turnpike" clicked with me.

Five years ago, my wife and I were headed to a mountain bike race in ATX and I had to make business stops in Hugo and Paris, Tx.  We were just south of the north toll gate on the Indian Nations when we got pulled over by OHP, ostensibly because he could not see our car tag with the bicycles on the tray rack behind the car.  He muttered something about needing to add a supplemental tag to our rack when bikes are on so they can identify us better.  This happened during the morning hours.  Written or verbal warning and free to go.

That suddenly makes sense that he figured mountain bikes might mean dope, instead he got a couple of clean cut 40-somethings and no weed or alcohol odor.  I can't tell you how many times I've had another cop behind me either in the city or highway who didn't light me up for a mountain bike open-carry.


When did bicyclists become viewed as such a big police issue?

http://newsok.com/little-discipline-for-okc-officer-who-said-cyclist-wielded-license-as-weapon/article/5581899


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on February 28, 2018, 12:46:58 pm
Wasn't sure if this should go here or the "horrible OK legislature" thread:

Lawmakers Move Forward on Medical Marijuana Regulations Before Oklahoma Vote

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/lawmakers-move-forward-medical-marijuana-regulations-oklahoma-vote (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/lawmakers-move-forward-medical-marijuana-regulations-oklahoma-vote)

Quote
Oklahomans haven't yet voted on a medical marijuana initiative, but the legislature is already moving to regulate it.

Sen. Ervin Yen proposes limiting use to terminally ill patients and those with neuropathic pain, muscle spasms from multiple sclerosis or paraplegia, nausea or vomiting because of chemotherapy, or loss of weight or appetite from AIDS or cancer.

People with persistent pain other treatments aren’t resolving would not qualify for a medical marijuana card.

"I’m just afraid that’s too difficult for a physician to figure out if a patient who just wants to get high says, 'I’ve tried five different opioids and I’ve tried five different non-drug interventions, and none of them are working. Can you put me on some medical marijuana?'" Yen said.

Oklahomans will vote whether to legalize medical marijuana in June. Sen. Adam Pugh said that gives lawmakers enough time to tackle regulations next year.

"And here we are telling the people of Oklahoma, once again, 'We don’t care what you think. We don’t care what you stand for. We’re just going to do what we think is best. Trust us. Trust the government,'" Pugh said.

Senate Bill 1120 addresses not only who may use medical marijuana and how much they may have, but also who may distribute it. The measure initially limits the state to 20 dispensing sites and lets the State Board of Health set prices.

Oklahomans for Health got the medical marijuana initiative on the June ballot. Chairman Chip Paul said those conditions are strict.

"I don’t think I would be investing much, you know, in an Oklahoma business based on those conditions," Paul said.

SB1120 also lets the governor terminate all dispensary licenses if advised there is a risk to public health or safety. The bill made it out of the Senate Health and Human Services Committee.

Oklahomans for Health is more hopeful about a House bill set for a Wednesday committee hearing.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 28, 2018, 01:37:24 pm
Wasn't sure if this should go here or the "horrible OK legislature" thread:

Lawmakers Move Forward on Medical Marijuana Regulations Before Oklahoma Vote


Its the legislature usurping the will of the people (initiative petition).  Politicians saying "my no vote counts more than your yes vote" just like they did with criminal justice reform when they said the voters dont know what they are doing.

It ignores the part where only a physician can decide who gets prescribed, and tries to preserve the status-quo corruption we have now.
Only question is which union drafted it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 28, 2018, 07:01:00 pm

When did bicyclists become viewed as such a big police issue?

http://newsok.com/little-discipline-for-okc-officer-who-said-cyclist-wielded-license-as-weapon/article/5581899


First off, neighborhoods have gotten to be a bit spring-loaded about people with backpacks apparently.  When I lived in Lortondale, every now and then someone would post on that page or the Hoover neighborhood page about a black kid with a back pack or someone riding a bike slowly and looking suspicious.

I think it is great the internet has given neighborhoods the ability to be more vigilant about prowlers but it also can lead to situations like this, if someone had even called in about a female in a black top on a bike with a back pack.  The cop here is just being a bully, I'm pretty surprised his body camera wasn't found to be "defective".

I have heard some anecdotal stories from cycling friends getting into arguments with LEOs about traffic laws regarding cyclists.  I think even Ed W mentioned something one time about an encounter like that with a cop while on his bike.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 01, 2018, 08:52:45 am
The marijuana advocate deserved to be arrested.  Sorry, i wish our laws were very different - but she knew she was coming into a state whose police still view marijuana as the Devils Weed and are none to shy about pretextual stops.   She knew that she was on a mission to advocate for Marijuana and drove here from Colorado. She knew the police knew that.  That doesn't mean she "deserved" to be stopped or that the police conducted the stop illegally (I don't know)... but you would think a person in her position would just assume she would be stopped and searched at some point. Legally or otherwise, you're not helping the cause here by getting arrested.
- - - -

The police officer who stopped the cyclist is a strange affair.  It isn't clear why he stopped her in the first place, something vague about "matching a description," which I assume means someone called the police to say they saw someone suspicious.  That's a real low bar for a stop and doesn't explain why the officer seemed to started off hostile.  (Also sad that in OKC someone cyclist to work is apparently suspicious?)

The lady certainly was brisk with the officer, but she was apparently stopped by the police on her way to work simply because someone wanted her to be, so I understand her frustration.  I question the need to stop her at all, to search her without consent, to do an ID check, to run a warrant search on her, or to handcuff her and put her in the back of the car. Sure, you can say that's all standard - but then the government could stop anyone they wanted, say someone else pointed the person out, and then search them, ID them, warrant check, handcuff them.  And the "ID as a weapon" line was total BS.  The entire thing should have been handled different.  This isn't the end of the world and I agree it is not a fire-able offense, but having the government stop and search random citizens does touch on our fundamental freedoms.

So the department blowing it off like "why's everyone so upset" is very bad PR and/or reflects a lack of understanding on their part.  If there is more to the story and someone matching the description had broken into a vehicle or threatened someone, then out with it.
- - - -

The proposed marijuana regulations are just another attempt to hamper legalization.  1 distribution site for every 200,000 people in the state?  1 for every 3500 square miles? 1 for every 4 counties? I'm trying to think of any other business or places to buy a particular product with that few access points.  By all means, let towns set reasonable standards or ban them entirely if they want.  But I'd like to know the scientific or logical way they decided "20" was the right number.

Quote
SB1120 also lets the governor terminate all dispensary licenses if advised there is a risk to public health or safety.

In 1933 the Nazis pushed the Enabling Act through Germany's legislature.  Germany had a Constitution, laws, and rules reflecting and protecting the will and rights of the people, that was really annoying to the Nazis.  So they tacked on a new law that says "then none of that really matters, we do what we want and you like it."   

In Oklahoma, the government wouldn't allow any form of legal marijuana.  They tried really hard to stop a vote of the people on the issue.  They are preparing to make the rules and regulations on the same difficult, assuming it will pass. But just in case none of that works, lets give the leader the power to just override everything by proclamation.

I know Nazi comparisons are cliche and I'm not trying to go full hyperbole.  But a provision giving power to the leader to just undue laws at will is seldom seen in Republics with wise governments.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 01, 2018, 04:22:33 pm
The marijuana advocate deserved to be arrested.  Sorry, i wish our laws were very different - but she knew she was coming into a state whose police still view marijuana as the Devils Weed and are none to shy about pretextual stops.   She knew that she was on a mission to advocate for Marijuana and drove here from Colorado. She knew the police knew that.  That doesn't mean she "deserved" to be stopped or that the police conducted the stop illegally (I don't know)... but you would think a person in her position would just assume she would be stopped and searched at some point. Legally or otherwise, you're not helping the cause here by getting arrested.
- - - -

The police officer who stopped the cyclist is a strange affair.  It isn't clear why he stopped her in the first place, something vague about "matching a description," which I assume means someone called the police to say they saw someone suspicious.  That's a real low bar for a stop and doesn't explain why the officer seemed to started off hostile.  (Also sad that in OKC someone cyclist to work is apparently suspicious?)

The lady certainly was brisk with the officer, but she was apparently stopped by the police on her way to work simply because someone wanted her to be, so I understand her frustration.  I question the need to stop her at all, to search her without consent, to do an ID check, to run a warrant search on her, or to handcuff her and put her in the back of the car. Sure, you can say that's all standard - but then the government could stop anyone they wanted, say someone else pointed the person out, and then search them, ID them, warrant check, handcuff them.  And the "ID as a weapon" line was total BS.  The entire thing should have been handled different.  This isn't the end of the world and I agree it is not a fire-able offense, but having the government stop and search random citizens does touch on our fundamental freedoms.

So the department blowing it off like "why's everyone so upset" is very bad PR and/or reflects a lack of understanding on their part.  If there is more to the story and someone matching the description had broken into a vehicle or threatened someone, then out with it.

- - - -

The proposed marijuana regulations are just another attempt to hamper legalization.  1 distribution site for every 200,000 people in the state?  1 for every 3500 square miles? 1 for every 4 counties? I'm trying to think of any other business or places to buy a particular product with that few access points.  By all means, let towns set reasonable standards or ban them entirely if they want.  But I'd like to know the scientific or logical way they decided "20" was the right number.

In 1933 the Nazis pushed the Enabling Act through Germany's legislature.  Germany had a Constitution, laws, and rules reflecting and protecting the will and rights of the people, that was really annoying to the Nazis.  So they tacked on a new law that says "then none of that really matters, we do what we want and you like it."   

In Oklahoma, the government wouldn't allow any form of legal marijuana.  They tried really hard to stop a vote of the people on the issue.  They are preparing to make the rules and regulations on the same difficult, assuming it will pass. But just in case none of that works, lets give the leader the power to just override everything by proclamation.

I know Nazi comparisons are cliche and I'm not trying to go full hyperbole.  But a provision giving power to the leader to just undue laws at will is seldom seen in Republics with wise governments.



An excellent summary; I agree with all but one point:

Lying on police reports can destroy lives. 
It should be a prosecutable crime and at the very least should result in firing, but the unions keep either of those from happening.  As for the motivation, it looked an awful lot like she was being sized up for an assault.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 02, 2018, 08:53:08 am
I agree that a substantive lie on a police report is a huge deal.  But in this instance, it did not end up being substantive. The officer made it dramatic, he exaggerated, or he straight up made stuff up - but it did not change the outcome of the interaction and did not have long term consequences.  Perhaps the officer was considering worse behavior, but that didn't happen and we don't punish people for considering bad behavior.   It isn't a "nothing" and we don't want it to be a norm, but I also don't think we want to open on a lane to scrutinizing reports/logs for reasons to fire officers.

By that I mean looking at each instance and trying to figure out if any wording constitutes a lie.  At the end of many police interactions there is a person unhappy with the officer, even when they are entirely professional and just.  Each one of those people would look for something they can point to in order to cause significant problems, even if the error, omission, or exaggeration wasn't substantive.  But I which I mean significantly changed the nature of the interaction or the outcome.

It's all about balance, IMHO.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on March 02, 2018, 10:48:36 am
First off, neighborhoods have gotten to be a bit spring-loaded about people with backpacks apparently....

I have heard some anecdotal stories from cycling friends getting into arguments with LEOs about traffic laws regarding cyclists.  I think even Ed W mentioned something one time about an encounter like that with a cop while on his bike.

I read NextDoor for news and information about my neighborhood and there are occasional threads about suspicious salespeople, pedestrians, bicyclists, vehicles, photographers, and more. If you want to find out how many of your neighbors are mouth breathers incapable of carrying a coherent thought from one end of a paragraph to the other end, I highly recommend reading NextDoor.

One nearly universal component is a disdain for actual law in favor of stepped up enforcement of imaginary ones. While this is comical when it comes from some old biddy down the street, it's decidedly less so when the POTUS says to take someone's guns and worry about due process later. If he's willing to ignore rights in this instance, there's no doubt whatsoever he'd do the same in other situations. What's truly frightening is that his base would cheer.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on March 02, 2018, 11:41:29 pm
I read NextDoor for news and information about my neighborhood and there are occasional threads about suspicious salespeople, pedestrians, bicyclists, vehicles, photographers, and more. If you want to find out how many of your neighbors are mouth breathers incapable of carrying a coherent thought from one end of a paragraph to the other end, I highly recommend reading NextDoor.

One nearly universal component is a disdain for actual law in favor of stepped up enforcement of imaginary ones. While this is comical when it comes from some old biddy down the street, it's decidedly less so when the POTUS says to take someone's guns and worry about due process later. If he's willing to ignore rights in this instance, there's no doubt whatsoever he'd do the same in other situations. What's truly frightening is that his base would cheer.

I always got a kick out of porch piracy complaints on Next Door and how we needed more manpower patrolling the streets to lock up these miscreants stealing cat food and diapers from porches.  A far simpler solution is getting a mail drop like we had or having valuable shipments sent to the office.  Reading Next Door is much like reading the public comments on media sites, good for a laugh until you realize these people procreate and vote.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 20, 2018, 05:52:27 pm
Unintended victims of over-regulation
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/California-s-new-marijuana-regimen-leaves-out-12765587.php


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on March 24, 2018, 07:15:54 pm
Unintended victims of over-regulation
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/California-s-new-marijuana-regimen-leaves-out-12765587.php

I bet he could find a company that would take the tax write-off for charitable donations.   All the big guys do it.   (Pfizer, Merck, etc.)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 25, 2018, 07:38:06 pm
Marijuana compound might help keep drug addicts, alcoholics from relapsing, study finds
http://www.kansascity.com/news/nation-world/article206687424.html


The trick, then, is to find real CBD oil and not some counterfeit mixed up by a vape shop.

"We really need to stress to people that they understand that state law says if there is [sic] detectable amounts of THC in it, it cannot be sold in Oklahoma,” said Mark Woodward with the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics.
http://kfor.com/2018/01/31/how-cbd-oils-stores-are-regulated-in-oklahoma/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 11, 2018, 04:34:09 pm
Former House Speaker Boehner 'has evolved' on marijuana
"I'm convinced de-scheduling the drug is needed so we can do research, help our veterans, and reverse the opioid epidemic ravaging our communities."

In an interview with Bloomberg, Mr. Boehner said he began to shift his opinion after seeing marijuana help a close friend deal with back pain. He said “you begin to really scratch your head” when looking at how many people are in prison for marijuana possession.

“Over the last 10 or 15 years, the American people’s attitudes have changed dramatically,” he said. “I find myself in that same position.”

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/11/politics/boehner-cannabis-company-board/index.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on April 11, 2018, 05:11:35 pm
Former House Speaker Boehner 'has evolved' on marijuana
"I'm convinced de-scheduling the drug is needed so we can do research, help our veterans, and reverse the opioid epidemic ravaging our communities."

In an interview with Bloomberg, Mr. Boehner said he began to shift his opinion after seeing marijuana help a close friend deal with back pain. He said “you begin to really scratch your head” when looking at how many people are in prison for marijuana possession.

“Over the last 10 or 15 years, the American people’s attitudes have changed dramatically,” he said. “I find myself in that same position.”

https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/11/politics/boehner-cannabis-company-board/index.html



So, in other words, Boehner has picked up "The Doobie".


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 12, 2018, 07:20:26 am
So, in other words, Boehner has picked up "The Doobie".


There are none so pious as a repentant sinner...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 14, 2018, 12:13:26 pm
DENVER (CBS4)– The first FDA-approved prescription drug made from pure cannabis is expected to hit the market in the next couple months and, unless lawmakers act, Colorado may be the only state that can’t sell it.
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/04/13/cannabis-fda-state-capitol/

https://www.gwpharm.com/epilepsy-patients-caregivers/patients


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 20, 2018, 12:02:43 pm
U.S. Senate Minority Leader Announces Measure to Decriminalize Marijuana

The legislation would remove marijuana from Drug Enforcement Administration’s list of controlled substances, which would end federal prohibition and leave it up to states to decide how to regulate the drug. Schumer stopped short of calling it legalization, but de-scheduling would essentially make marijuana legal at the federal level.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/7xdjqz/sen-chuck-schumer-to-introduce-bill-to-decriminalize-marijuana

That, and the FDA approval of a commercial CBD product means children with epilepsy no longer have to look forward to a lifetime on opioids.



Meanwhile back in the Dark Ages:

The Oklahoma Highway Patrol, the Tulsa Police Department, the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office and the ABLE Commission will operate the DUI checkpoint at an undisclosed location in the Tulsa area from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m., according to a news release.

Although checkpoints normally are conducted late on Saturday nights, OHP spokesman Dwight Durant confirmed the upcoming checkpoint is on a Friday afternoon because of the date’s (4/20) significance in cannabis culture.

Durant said authorities are not specifically looking for drivers high on marijuana


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/authorities-to-operate-dui-checkpoint-in-tulsa-area-friday-evening/article_1ef042fe-3bf5-503a-92fc-af57a935782a.html

...FWIW their DUI roadblocks were never specifically looking for drunk drivers, either.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on April 20, 2018, 12:15:00 pm
U.S. Senate Minority Leader Announces Measure to Decriminalize Marijuana

The legislation would remove marijuana from Drug Enforcement Administration’s list of controlled substances, which would end federal prohibition and leave it up to states to decide how to regulate the drug. Schumer stopped short of calling it legalization, but de-scheduling would essentially make marijuana legal at the federal level.

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/7xdjqz/sen-chuck-schumer-to-introduce-bill-to-decriminalize-marijuana

That, and the FDA approval of a commercial CBD product means children with epilepsy no longer have to look forward to a lifetime on opioids.



Meanwhile back in the Dark Ages:

The Oklahoma Highway Patrol, the Tulsa Police Department, the Tulsa County Sheriff’s Office and the ABLE Commission will operate the DUI checkpoint at an undisclosed location in the Tulsa area from 4 p.m. to 7 p.m., according to a news release.

Although checkpoints normally are conducted late on Saturday nights, OHP spokesman Dwight Durant confirmed the upcoming checkpoint is on a Friday afternoon because of the date’s (4/20) significance in cannabis culture.

Durant said authorities are not specifically looking for drivers high on marijuana


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/authorities-to-operate-dui-checkpoint-in-tulsa-area-friday-evening/article_1ef042fe-3bf5-503a-92fc-af57a935782a.html

...FWIW their DUI roadblocks were never specifically looking for drunk drivers, either.


They didn't mention Jane Fest in the story, I thought that was the original impetus.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on April 20, 2018, 04:23:56 pm
They didn't mention Jane Fest in the story, I thought that was the original impetus.

You should see the shops here today. Several are having 420 specials where you can get an ounce of buds for $28.00, limit one per customer. No shake/stems/junk,  just buds of the type of your choice.  Three or four of the shops have had lines 30 people deep waiting in line to get in to the shops.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on April 20, 2018, 05:34:59 pm
You should see the shops here today. Several are having 420 specials where you can get an ounce of buds for $28.00, limit one per customer. No shake/stems/junk,  just buds of the type of your choice.  Three or four of the shops have had lines 30 people deep waiting in line to get in to the shops.

I don't think I uh, people I know ever paid less than a few hundred for an ounce.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on April 20, 2018, 07:31:39 pm
I don't think I uh, people I know ever paid less than a few hundred for an ounce.

Supply and demand. There are several farms between where I live and I-5 that you can actually smell the grow in the air right before the harvest. The western side of the Cascade Range is a great environment for growing. Temperate climate, moist soil, near lots of rainfall and watershed. The grow farms are near the same areas that are popular for vineyards for wine production, and the state allows people to have a certain amount of land that with the permits grow pot as a crop, and there are a lot of people that grow various strains from basic to Maui Wowy, to Red Hair Sensimilla, and everything in between. It was really funny last year when I was headed out to a track weekend at Laguna Seca, that as I drove through certain areas I could smell the pot in the air.

The link below is the area that you can drive through and smell it growing.

https://goo.gl/maps/Ckyv1aQ8zbt (https://goo.gl/maps/Ckyv1aQ8zbt)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 20, 2018, 07:46:32 pm
Im sure people with family suffering from cancer find this very cute:


In recognition of 420 the Tulsa Police Department is working on a Marijuana Detection Kit....do you have a sudden case of the munchies?

We also offer a free weighing service to verify the weight of your Marijuana. If you have some Marijuana that you would like an official weight on, please contact your nearest officer.

The officer will be happy to weigh your Marijuana and provide you with a certified weight in the form of a citation, or for some lucky citizens the officer will offer you deluxe accommodations in one of our lovely facilities located in the downtown area.
https://www.facebook.com/tulsapolice/photos/a.376369998662.155038.50187668662/10155461932323663/?type=3


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on April 20, 2018, 08:03:01 pm
Im sure people with family suffering from cancer find this very cute:


In recognition of 420 the Tulsa Police Department is working on a Marijuana Detection Kit....do you have a sudden case of the munchies?

We also offer a free weighing service to verify the weight of your Marijuana. If you have some Marijuana that you would like an official weight on, please contact your nearest officer.

The officer will be happy to weigh your Marijuana and provide you with a certified weight in the form of a citation, or for some lucky citizens the officer will offer you deluxe accommodations in one of our lovely facilities located in the downtown area.
https://www.facebook.com/tulsapolice/photos/a.376369998662.155038.50187668662/10155461932323663/?type=3


Oklahoma leadership

(https://www.ark-data.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Head-in-sand.gif)





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 20, 2018, 08:35:17 pm
I don't think I uh, people I know ever paid less than a few hundred for an ounce.



I remember people buying at the standard price of the time at $20 an ounce.  Sometimes they would get it for $15....

I can see today's market would keep me off pot forever, even if legal.  Unless I grow my own...




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on April 20, 2018, 08:56:33 pm


I remember people buying at the standard price of the time at $20 an ounce.  Sometimes they would get it for $15....

I can see today's market would keep me off pot forever, even if legal.  Unless I grow my own...




Geez dude, how old are you or was that total ditch weed?  I figured that was the price back when Jesus and his band of merry men were tromping around together.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on April 20, 2018, 10:18:34 pm
Geez dude, how old are you or was that total ditch weed?  I figured that was the price back when Jesus and his band of merry men were tromping around together.

Waaaaayyyy back when, around the time Peter Frampton played at the Tulsa Speedway, and Gary Temple when not working for TPD worked for Tulsa Security Patrol at Nathan Hale as the resource officer rent a cop, and my source lived in Lortondale, a lid (ounce) was $10.00 for average stuff, and $20.00 for the "knock your socks off" stuff.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 21, 2018, 04:39:29 pm
Geez dude, how old are you or was that total ditch weed?  I figured that was the price back when Jesus and his band of merry men were tromping around together.


Mid to late 60's or so.

As the saying goes, "Good sh$t, Maynard..."

Won't say where the best stuff came from but it was a special room in a basement in downtown Tulsa with EXTREME security armed protection everywhere...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 23, 2018, 11:47:34 am
Oklahoma leadership

(https://www.ark-data.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Head-in-sand.gif)


That, or an almost contemptuous lack of sensitivity:

"While Tulsa’s west side is known for narcotics, Durant said the checkpoint could have been placed anywhere in Tulsa"

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/west-tulsa-to-be-site-of-dui-checkpoint-during-multi/article_4ae85647-bd5c-50a7-82ff-186331f18848.html
They got around to their legal obligation of announcing the roadblock location after the fact.  People often wonder why the courts require police to specify the exact location...

It may seem counterintuitive for police to be so specific in advance about their intent to set up a checkpoint. After all, anyone who would be planning to go out drinking on the night in question would, it would seem, be able to thwart the social and safety-related usefulness of the checkpoint simply by avoiding the exact location where the police indicated that it would be. But there are many people of precisely the type that police are interested in taking off the roads who either do not pay attention to advance warnings of checkpoints, or disregard them. http://www.oklahoma-criminal-defense-lawyer.com/oklahoma-dui-checkpoints-in-actual-practic


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on April 23, 2018, 12:44:46 pm
I think it was public before it actually happened...   Not long before, but before none-the-less.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/crimewatch/west-tulsa-to-be-site-of-dui-checkpoint-during-multi/article_4ae85647-bd5c-50a7-82ff-186331f18848.html




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 23, 2018, 05:09:22 pm

I think it was public before it actually happened...   Not long before, but before none-the-less.


If we are talking minutes it still borders on contempt and puts every checkpoint citation in jeopardy.  One good lawyer...

Meanwhile, good news:
http://kfor.com/2018/04/23/gov-fallin-signs-industrial-hemp-measure-into-law/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 25, 2018, 09:52:13 am
Alcohol is legal, but pretty much everyone knows you are not allowed to be drunk (or drink) at work.
Nevertheless, there are employers this stupid:


State Chamber says medical marijuana state question would restrict employers' rights

“Although we recognize the medicinal qualities and potential for economic growth in our state, Oklahoma’s employers shouldn’t be required to change their policies regarding drug testing and employee retention based on a sloppily drafted State Question.”

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/state-chamber-says-medical-marijuana-state-question-would-restrict-employers/article_c4f1a9d3-3f75-5dbb-8118-f044fa99b79a.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on April 25, 2018, 08:47:05 pm
Alcohol is legal, but pretty much everyone knows you are not allowed to be drunk (or drink) at work.
Nevertheless, there are employers this stupid:


State Chamber says medical marijuana state question would restrict employers' rights

“Although we recognize the medicinal qualities and potential for economic growth in our state, Oklahoma’s employers shouldn’t be required to change their policies regarding drug testing and employee retention based on a sloppily drafted State Question.”

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/state-chamber-says-medical-marijuana-state-question-would-restrict-employers/article_c4f1a9d3-3f75-5dbb-8118-f044fa99b79a.html

I was told last night by someone who is pretty heavily involved in politics in New Mexico that there's an undercurrent of movement in some counties and communities across the state to decriminalize all drugs.  The logic is that the state and communities are pissing away millions (or billions) in taxpayer funds on incarcerations and putting people into debtor's prisons who can never pay off their legal bills and fines which adds further to the issues which likely feed their addictions.  He feels stepped up treatment options need to be a part of such an initiative.  He did mention that it was basically to quit penalizing users, but dealers could still be arrested as the decriminalization would be based on quantity, i.e. less than 1 oz of weed or less than a gram of meth.

This was said in the presence of a local LEO I have high respect for.  I asked his thoughts, he said in his 17 years of being a state patrolman and working in smaller communities that alcohol is by far a bigger problem and he sees the revolving door of locking up the same addicts for three or for days and slapping fines on them as a waste of public resources.  I was rather surprised at his response but I've heard other current and former state patrol types say they are far less concerned with dope smokers as they generally run 5-10 MPH less than everyone else and are semi-paranoid so they drive straight as an arrow.  That may be an over-simplification from a few of the ones I know and they may be the only ones in the entire country who believe this.

I think you have to consider though that "drug safe" zones could lead to chronic abusers relocating basically to escape persecution of their habits.  There's some good merit to this but any unintended consequences need to be fleshed out.  The LEO mentioned what a homeless sh!thole Pueblo is becoming (maybe it's cheaper to be homeless in Pueblo than it is in Denver or Colo. Springs?) since weed was legalized.  I honestly never notice homeless camps when we go through Pueblo or stop there for something but perhaps we aren't looking in the right places.

This still doesn't really address the legal over-prescribing of opioids.  One can only hope that as more states relax their views on weed that people who suffer from pain issues or who simply have an emotional dependence on pain meds might be more apt to use pot instead of pill-seeking.  Odd that most states still ban a substance which is now proven can be grown and taxed and is virtually impossible to OD on (at least die from an overdose, I'm not talking about people who smoke until they have a crazy schizoid reaction they eventually come down from) while they continue to sanction the legal prescription of drugs and legal sale of alcohol which can and do kill people every day.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 26, 2018, 10:21:37 am
I was told last night by someone who is pretty heavily involved in politics in New Mexico that there's an undercurrent of movement in some counties and communities across the state to decriminalize all drugs.  The logic is that the state and communities are pissing away millions (or billions) in taxpayer funds on incarcerations and putting people into debtor's prisons who can never pay off their legal bills and fines which adds further to the issues which likely feed their addictions.  He feels stepped up treatment options need to be a part of such an initiative.  He did mention that it was basically to quit penalizing users, but dealers could still be arrested as the decriminalization would be based on quantity, i.e. less than 1 oz of weed or less than a gram of meth.




At least tens of billions, and I suspect if all the costs were added up - something carefully avoided now by the powers that be who benefit from our incarceration culture - it would be hundreds of billions!  Treatment and other assistance programs would be much cheaper.



Here are some thoughts - there are others, but the ones that say incarceration is better are always wrong lying!

https://www.blvdcenters.org/blog/understanding-treatment-vs-incarceration-debate

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/principles-drug-abuse-treatment-criminal-justice-populations/providing-drug-abuse-treatment-to-offenders-worth-f

http://www.bhsbaltimore.org/site/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Incarceration-vs-Drug-Treatment-Costs.pdf




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 29, 2018, 06:04:01 pm
Most of the demand for CBD is from consumers or patients who suffer from anxiety, insomnia or sleep problems, joint pain and inflammation and depression, according to a study conducted by Brightfield Group and HelloMD. In their survey, they learned that only 2% of the respondents cited epilepsy as the medical condition they were seeking to relieve:

(https://www.newcannabisventures.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Cannabis-Conditions-CBD-Use-Chart.jpg)
Source: Brightfield Group and HelloMD


With only a small amount of the overall CBD business likely tied to the treatment of epilepsy, Epidiolex doesn’t appear to offer a threat to current CBD providers, except perhaps in that narrow category. Epidiolex, if approved, will be indicated only for patients suffering from LGS or Dravet syndrome, though doctors would be able to prescribe it for additional indications. Most analysts expect that there could be significant off-label activity, as doctors treat patients who suffer from other forms of epilepsy or possibly other indications. GW Pharma is studying Epidiolex to treat tuberous sclerosis complex and infantile spasms.

One of the big advantages of Epidiolex is that it will likely be covered by insurance companies, a distinct advantage over traditional medical cannabis that will likely overcome any sort of cost advantage that dispensary or mail-order CBD might offer. Epidiolex is expected to have an annual cost of $30K or more.  Additionally, quality control is likely to push potential patients to adopt FDA-approved Epidiolex over other sources of CBD.

https://www.newcannabisventures.com/how-fda-approved-cannabis-products-could-affect-cbd-distribution-channels/

FDA taking the lead should mean it will be a lot harder for some vape shop to mix together essential oils and label it CBD.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on April 30, 2018, 04:12:31 pm
I met this guy at the radio station and interviewed his company. They have a brick and mortar store at 68th and Memorial and a website.

This cream is FDA legal and sells for high dollars. I don't know if it works, but he gave me a tub of the Level 5 stuff that sells for $90. I am almost afraid to open it.

https://www.mycbdsolution.com/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 30, 2018, 08:38:11 pm
I was told last night by someone who is pretty heavily involved in politics in New Mexico that there's an undercurrent of movement in some counties and communities across the state to decriminalize all drugs.  The logic is that the state and communities are pissing away millions (or billions) in taxpayer funds on incarcerations and putting people into debtor's prisons who can never pay off their legal bills and fines which adds further to the issues which likely feed their addictions.  He feels stepped up treatment options need to be a part of such an initiative.  He did mention that it was basically to quit penalizing users, but dealers could still be arrested as the decriminalization would be based on quantity, i.e. less than 1 oz of weed or less than a gram of meth.

This was said in the presence of a local LEO I have high respect for.  I asked his thoughts, he said in his 17 years of being a state patrolman and working in smaller communities that alcohol is by far a bigger problem and he sees the revolving door of locking up the same addicts for three or for days and slapping fines on them as a waste of public resources.  I was rather surprised at his response but I've heard other current and former state patrol types say they are far less concerned with dope smokers as they generally run 5-10 MPH less than everyone else and are semi-paranoid so they drive straight as an arrow.  That may be an over-simplification from a few of the ones I know and they may be the only ones in the entire country who believe this.

I think you have to consider though that "drug safe" zones could lead to chronic abusers relocating basically to escape persecution of their habits.  There's some good merit to this but any unintended consequences need to be fleshed out.  The LEO mentioned what a homeless sh!thole Pueblo is becoming (maybe it's cheaper to be homeless in Pueblo than it is in Denver or Colo. Springs?) since weed was legalized.  I honestly never notice homeless camps when we go through Pueblo or stop there for something but perhaps we aren't looking in the right places.

This still doesn't really address the legal over-prescribing of opioids.  One can only hope that as more states relax their views on weed that people who suffer from pain issues or who simply have an emotional dependence on pain meds might be more apt to use pot instead of pill-seeking.  Odd that most states still ban a substance which is now proven can be grown and taxed and is virtually impossible to OD on (at least die from an overdose, I'm not talking about people who smoke until they have a crazy schizoid reaction they eventually come down from) while they continue to sanction the legal prescription of drugs and legal sale of alcohol which can and do kill people every day.



Special interests draft legislation that lackey legislators cant wait to put their name on so they can look "tough on crime," like the 2013 wave of per se zero-tolerance metabolite laws (that courts in other states have already struck down)
https://www.oklahomalegalgroup.com/oklahoma-criminal-defense/arizona-rules-zero-tolerance-drug-dui-law-unconstitutional-could-oklahoma-follow

Everyone has metabolites (endorphins, for example) so no one could pass Oklahoma's DUI law as written,
http://blog.norml.org/2013/06/11/oklahoma-becomes-third-state-this-year-to-approve-unscientific-per-se-limits-for-cannabis/

but the unions that wrote those laws arent about to give up "valuable law enforcement tools" just because they might not be based on medical science.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 11, 2018, 08:12:55 pm
Current law says non-intoxicating CBD oil can have up to .03 ppm THC to be considered legal in Oklahoma, but...

Oklahoma has a zero-tolerance law saying that any positive test for THC, the psychoactive component in marijuana, or its metabolites is considered driving under the influence. The language of SQ788 fails to exempt licensed patients from that law, nor does it provide a legal limit for THC in the blood while operating a vehicle.  (the Oklahoma Association of Chiefs of Police) said that could force officers to make enforcement decisions on a day-to-day basis, which could lead to confusion and criticism.

Part of the problem with marijuana-intoxication tests is that THC and its metabolites can remain in a person’s system for days or weeks after just one use. So saliva tests, and even blood tests performed within two hours of a person’s arrest on suspicion of DUI, would fail to indicate how recently the person consumed marijuana.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/medical-marijuana-vote-spurs-concerns-about-impaired-driving-issue-not/article_06d9ed0a-20a0-5218-81d3-9ad7b1e8131b.html

Hmmm, tough one.  We know the zero-tolerance law is overly-broad and based on a poor understanding of science but it gives us broad discretion to lock up sober people as much as intoxicated ones, so do we enforce it?

...or do we wait for the legislature to catch up?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/oklahoma-house-to-study-how-to-implement-medical-marijuana-if/article_da210198-4e88-50b6-a675-54baba13ba84.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 18, 2018, 12:04:22 pm


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elections/we-ask-the-governor-candidates-what-are-your-views-on/article_ec4af3fa-ff06-50ad-947c-8302120f2ddd.html




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on June 18, 2018, 12:25:21 pm

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elections/we-ask-the-governor-candidates-what-are-your-views-on/article_ec4af3fa-ff06-50ad-947c-8302120f2ddd.html




Pretty much party-line nonsense.

As long as Republicans (and some Dems/Inds) back for-profit prisons, they'll never change on this.


Title: Q
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2018, 12:29:24 pm

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elections/we-ask-the-governor-candidates-what-are-your-views-on/article_ec4af3fa-ff06-50ad-947c-8302120f2ddd.html





And of course, as would be expected, all the main Republicontin candidates are lying about SQ788 and what it does or does not contain.  They obviously have not read the text of the question (link provided below) and are simply parroting the BS and lies that they are getting from someone's talking point list.  Notice how they all sound pretty much the same?

They are lying that anyone and everyone will just randomly walk down the street, find some pseudo-Doctor to give them a 'note for teacher' and then go about their merry way, stoned all day long.  Except for the reality - the SQ specifically says, Oklahoma Board Certified Physician.  If they don't trust Oklahoma Board Certified Physicians, then why haven't they done something to fix THAT problem sometime in the intervening years when THEY have been in control.??   Answer for the feeble minded amongst us - there IS NO inherent problem with Oklahoma Board Certified Physicians.   It is with the legislature, the governor, and the Republican candidates.

And once again, trying as hard as they can to get between a person's Doctor and the patient.  As usual.


https://www.sos.ok.gov/documents/questions/788.pdf



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 18, 2018, 12:53:38 pm

And of course, as would be expected, all the main Republicontin candidates are lying about SQ788 and what it does or does not contain.  They obviously have not read the text of the question (link provided below) and are simply parroting the BS and lies that they are getting from someone's talking point list.  Notice how they all sound pretty much the same?

If you want campaign money from pharmaceutical companies you have to be able to recite the script.
Anheuser-Busch InBev pumped millions into police unions and churches believing medical marijuana would hurt their sales, and I dont think any of those recipients told Bud to check their facts.

Sometimes just the tried-and-true propaganda is sufficient, like the outdated "gateway drug" phrase our current DA still uses.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 19, 2018, 07:29:20 pm
Sheriff Scott Walton held a "vote no" forum on medical marijuana.  It got physical.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/video-medical-marijuana-advocate-forcefully-removed-from-public-forum-by/article_e34d4fb0-c89f-54c1-8767-2fc1314a82c2.html




The co-founder of the organization that successfully petitioned to add medical marijuana to next week’s primary ballot was forcefully removed from a public forum Monday evening by the Rogers County sheriff.

Chip Paul — co-founder and chairman of Oklahomans for Health, the group responsible for State Question 788 — was attending a forum about medical marijuana at the Claremore Conference Center when he was marched out of the facility by Sheriff Scott Walton.

According to Paul’s version of events, he and his wife arrived at the forum late and found seats in the back. Two sheriff’s deputies were standing behind them, and at one point, Paul said he shook the hand of one and briefly chatted with him.

Later on, Paul said, he quietly expressed frustration with some of the information being presented. At that point, according to Paul, Walton confronted him.

“He grabbed me and was in my face, saying, ‘If this is frustrating, you can get out,’” Paul said.

Paul said he replied that he would remain quiet. “That’s when (Walton) grabbed me by the neck and proceeded to escort me from the building. He rammed my head into a door — I don’t know if that was purposeful or not.”

Video of the altercation shows Walton leading Paul out of the facility with both hands around his neck. As Paul is directed through a set of double doors, it appears that his forehead is pushed into one of them.

“I feel like, in my mind, he assaulted me,” Paul said. “I was doing nothing. I have as much right to be there as he does.”

Walton rebutted Paul’s version of the night. He said a large group of SQ 788 supporters were rowdy and “disruptive to the speakers.”

He said multiple announcements were made indicating there would be time for questions and discussion at the end of the forum, announcements he said were ignored by SQ 788 advocates.

“I’m not regretful for my actions there,” Walton said. “We were to the point that there was consideration of just pulling the plug on the whole meeting.”

Walton said Paul repeatedly raised his hand even after organizers asked that questions be held. He said Paul also openly laughed at speakers. Then, Walton said, he saw him say something to a reserve deputy, who motioned to Paul to turn back around.

Walton said he then approached Paul and politely asked him to step outside so the two could chat, but Paul kept his hands in his lap and did not engage. He said he continued to request that Paul be respectful and to step outside with him but that Paul kept talking aloud, at which point Walton grabbed him and started toward the doors.

“As we approached that door, his left hand’s free. I’m hardly applying any pressure. We were walking up to the door and he balked just a little bit,” Walton said, indicating that Paul’s movement contributed to his head’s hitting the door.

“It was no intention to slam his head into a door in a room full of people. If my intention was to ram his head through that door, there’d be some physical evidence to show that I did it.”

Paul said he did raise his hand in an attempt to ask questions of the presenters.

“I certainly didn’t try to precipitate the altercation in any way, shape or form,” he said.

The goal of the forum, which had been promoted by the Rogers County Sheriff’s Office, was to allow voters to “become familiar with the absolute facts” about SQ 788, according to a Facebook post from the Sheriff’s Office.

“There is a lot of confusion about whether this proposed legislation is actually designed to provide a medical alternative using marijuana, or if it is merely an attempt by recreational marijuana supporters and business owners to convince Oklahomans to pass legislation that will create serious health, safety, and economic concerns for our entire State,” the Sheriff’s Office wrote.

Speakers scheduled for the forum included District Attorney Matt Ballard, local physician Dr. Mark Paul Bishop, Drug Enforcement Agency officials and Walton.

In a statement to the Tulsa World, Ballard said he participated with the goal of helping educate voters.

“People absolutely have the right to speak their minds; preferably while showing respect to others,” Ballard said. “The majority of people at the forum were engaged and respectful. A handful decided to be disrespectful to the entire group, which is unfortunate but does not detract from the value the forum provided to the community.”

Ryan Kiesel, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Oklahoma, said in a statement Tuesday that Walton violated Paul’s First Amendment rights in a criminal manner.

“The violent actions of the Rogers County Sheriff signal a disturbing reliance on government force to silence political speech,” Kiesel said.

“Law enforcement must use force only under the most serious and threatening circumstances, a standard that Mr. Paul’s behavior did not even come close to meeting on Monday night. Removing Mr. Paul from a public forum for expressing a First Amendment protected political view was wholly inappropriate. Doing so violently is criminal.

“The Rogers County Sheriff must be held immediately accountable for his assault on a private citizen,” Kiesel continued.

”Further, the authorities in Rogers County must commit themselves publicly to policies that protect, not stifle free political thought. Indeed, these authorities have taken an oath to do just that. Instead, however, of performing their duty to protect the Constitution, the government of Rogers County has violently assaulted an individual with the express purpose of stopping him from exercising his rights before he could even have a chance to do so. This is a serious violation of the United States and Oklahoma Constitutions and likely a violation of the criminal code. Failure to take appropriate action against the Rogers County Sheriff would send a clear message that authoritarian government actors have greater in Rogers County than the citizens they ostensibly serve.”

Law enforcement officials, health care providers and marijuana advocates have fiercely debated whether the language of SQ 788 is too broad. Proponents say the plan is modeled after other states’ laws. Opponents, including Gov. Mary Fallin, have said its passage would be akin to full legalization of recreational marijuana.

Oklahoma’s primary, when the medical marijuana question will be on the ballot, is June 26.

http://www.tulsaworldtv.com/?ndn.trackingGroup=91468&ndn.siteSection=nws_loc_sty_91468_pp&ndn.videoId=33902724



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 20, 2018, 09:01:16 am
Sheriff Scott Walton held a "vote no" forum on medical marijuana.  It got physical.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/video-medical-marijuana-advocate-forcefully-removed-from-public-forum-by/article_e34d4fb0-c89f-54c1-8767-2fc1314a82c2.html




“The Rogers County Sheriff must be held immediately accountable for his assault on a private citizen,” Kiesel continued.



It's Rogers County.  Would expect nothing better...

Don't forget, this is the guy that hired ex-TPD Shelby as a reward for killing the black guy in Tulsa - job well done to the sheriff!

I submit this guy was lucky they didn't just gun him down where he sat....dam trouble maker!   Right, Bread...??








Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 25, 2018, 10:15:38 pm

FDA approves Epidiolex, first marijuana-based drug for seizures
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fda-approves-epidiolex-first-marijuana-based-drug-for-seizures/




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 26, 2018, 12:09:03 pm

A Tulsa police officer whose wife is a city councilor has taken to social media to say he favors legalizing medical marijuana.

“In 23 years, 6 months, 8 days, 3 hours, 22 minutes and 28 29 30 … seconds of my law enforcement career, I have never had a negative encounter with someone high on marijuana,” Sgt. Marcus Harper wrote on his personal Facebook page Monday night. “All they want to do is sit down and eat. I’m voting YES on 788.”

Oklahoma voters go to the polls Tuesday to vote in local and statewide elections. No issue has drawn more attention, however, than State Question 788, which would legalize medical marijuana.

Law enforcement organizations, including the Oklahoma Association of Chiefs of Police, are opposed to 788 in part because of the likely increase in impaired driving it would produce. Oklahoma statutes offer zero-tolerance for any driver who tests positive for THC, the psychoactive component in marijuana, or its metabolites.

But Harper told the Tulsa World on Tuesday morning that such opposition is simply the “politically correct” thing to say.

“They’re not supposed to drink and drive, and people still do it,” Harper said. “You are not supposed to take prescription medicine and drive, but people still do it.

“When you put everything together, officers typically have more problems with people who are drunk, who are high on illicit drugs like cocaine, PCP, methamphetamines, things like that. Those are the drugs that give us the most problems.”

Harper, who leads homicide investigations, says he has seen people killed over the sale of all kinds of illegal drugs, including marijuana. Legalizing the drug would make purchasing it safe and remove the criminal element that currently supplies it to the public.

“It’s Prohibition 2018, that’s what it is, ... so I am not buying that this is going to cause us a whole lot of problems," he said. "People are going to smoke marijuana. They just do.”

Harper also has a more personal reason for supporting the State Question 788. He said a friend and former Tulsa police officer, Bob Johnson, moved to Colorado so his child, who has seizures, could be treated with cannabis.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/tulsa-police-officer-voting-yes-on-medical-marijuana-state-question/article_0557648a-1d26-5c21-9bcb-e836feac9b23.html

So police union opposition is centered more on a badly-written DUI law?  Interesting.  I wonder who suggested that law in the first place?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 26, 2018, 04:29:32 pm



So law police union opposition is centered more on a badly-written DUI law?  Interesting.  I wonder who suggested that law in the first place?


Gee, I wonder...?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 26, 2018, 09:48:58 pm

#30


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on June 27, 2018, 07:37:55 am
Start the countdown for the governor and legislature to announce plans to subvert it...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 27, 2018, 08:25:30 am
I can hardly wait to see  how they screw up something so straightforward and simple.  But they can screw up a box of rocks...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 27, 2018, 10:21:02 am
Start the countdown for the governor and legislature to announce plans to subvert it...

Oh that was pre-arranged.  Like criminal justice reform, the vote of the people be damned:

Gov. Mary Fallin (R) said last week that she was prepared to call lawmakers into a special legislative session this summer to address provisions which, in her view, essentially allow "recreational marijuana in the state of Oklahoma."

And in a statement on Tuesday night, the governor said she "respect (sic) the will of the voters in any question placed before them to determine the direction of our state" but that "it is our responsibility as state leaders to look out for the health and safety of Oklahoma citizens."

    I will be discussing with legislative leaders and state agencies our options going forward on how best to proceed with adding a medical and proper regulatory framework to make sure marijuana use is truly for valid medical illnesses.


https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2018/06/26/oklahoma-voters-legalize-marijuana-for-medical-use



A month from now I can see ABLE writing tons of $400 tickets for people holding less than 1.5 ounces without a license card, but I can also see the legislature tossing its zero-tolerance DUI law that says a person is intoxicated if they have metabolites in their system from sitting next to someone vaping CBD oil the previous week (since most CBD has an inert trace of THC).


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on June 27, 2018, 10:36:23 am
I can hardly wait to see  how they screw up something so straightforward and simple.  But they can screw up a box of rocks...



Even the backers have always said a lot of work would remain through legislation and regulations to put this in place.  Not that I don’t suspect the legislature will try to change some of the basic policies in the initiative, but the proponents chose not to push for a constitutional amendment with this so they always left themselves exposed to legislative mischief.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 27, 2018, 10:57:35 am
Even the backers have always said a lot of work would remain through legislation and regulations to put this in place.  Not that I don’t suspect the legislature will try to change some of the basic policies in the initiative, but the proponents chose not to push for a constitutional amendment with this so they always left themselves exposed to legislative mischief.


Muzzling the legislature may have to be the next step, now that 'proof of concept' has been shown to be valid.

I am waiting the opportunity to sign that petition!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on June 27, 2018, 03:10:53 pm
Health Dept. statement:

Statement on Passage of SQ 788

The Oklahoma State Department of Health (OSDH) has worked for the past three months to develop a framework for implementing the requirements of SQ 788. Now that Oklahoma voters have approved the measure, OSDH is confident that we are ready to meet those requirements by the specified time and that the process will be handled with integrity.

Emergency rules governing the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority will be considered by the Oklahoma State Board of Health at their July 10 meeting. Application information and requirements will be available by July 26 for all of the defined categories and the agency will begin accepting applications no later than August 25. Program information will be made available at omma.ok.gov.

“Please do not visit the state or county health department offices with questions relating to medical marijuana. We are still working with limited staff who deliver clinical and other services across the state,” said OSDH Interim Commissioner Tom Bates. “All relevant information and instructions will be provided online.”

The application process will be available at the required time and will be enhanced in the coming months to make it more efficient for all interested parties. It may take some time to fully implement all of the steps recommended in preparation for this new program, but we will continue to work to meet the letter of the law and to protect the health and safety of all Oklahomans.

We have also established a phone number that will provide pre-recorded information for interested applicants. The number is (405) 271-2266.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 27, 2018, 04:29:55 pm
Health Dept. statement:

Statement on Passage of SQ 788

The Oklahoma State Department of Health (OSDH) has worked for the past three months to develop a framework for implementing the requirements of SQ 788. Now that Oklahoma voters have approved the measure, OSDH is confident that we are ready to meet those requirements by the specified time and that the process will be handled with integrity.

Emergency rules governing the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority will be considered by the Oklahoma State Board of Health at their July 10 meeting. Application information and requirements will be available by July 26 for all of the defined categories and the agency will begin accepting applications no later than August 25. Program information will be made available at omma.ok.gov.

“Please do not visit the state or county health department offices with questions relating to medical marijuana. We are still working with limited staff who deliver clinical and other services across the state,” said OSDH Interim Commissioner Tom Bates. “All relevant information and instructions will be provided online.”

The application process will be available at the required time and will be enhanced in the coming months to make it more efficient for all interested parties. It may take some time to fully implement all of the steps recommended in preparation for this new program, but we will continue to work to meet the letter of the law and to protect the health and safety of all Oklahomans.

We have also established a phone number that will provide pre-recorded information for interested applicants. The number is (405) 271-2266.



Huh...sounds timely...  Would not have expected that...!


Now, all I gotta do is go to the Dr and find some seed to be ready for next season...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 27, 2018, 04:49:06 pm
Quote
FALLIN:  I will be discussing with legislative leaders and state agencies our options going forward on how best to proceed with adding a medical and proper regulatory framework to make sure marijuana use is truly for valid medical illnesses.

And we all know blue laws are medical in nature, right?
You can get your prescription for Hydrocodine filled on a Sunday, but not medical marijuana?

TITLE 310. 
OKLAHOMA STATE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH
CHAPTER 681.  MEDICAL MARIJUANA CONTROL PROGRAM

310:681-5-14.    Hours of Operation
(a) A dispensary may only be open to the public and offer for sale
medical marijuana and medical marijuana products Monday through Saturday
from 10:00am to 9:00pm with no sales or operation on Sunday.

http://omma.ok.gov/Websites/ddeer/images/REVISED.MMR.WorkingDraft.JE06262018.pdf


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 28, 2018, 12:21:24 am
Who wants to bet that miscreants like Sally Kern or Nathan Dahm will be nominated to serve on any boards related to this?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 28, 2018, 07:27:19 am
Who wants to bet that miscreants like Sally Kern or Nathan Dahm will be nominated to serve on any boards related to this?


100% it will happen.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 02, 2018, 09:25:17 am
Interesting article out of Oregon, looking at the affects of 3 years of legal recreational marijuana.  

- Usage among kids/teenagers did not increase (actually went down 1/3 for 8th graders, flat for 11th grade)
- Usage among adults went from 13% to 16% (use in last 30 days)
- DUI positive tests for marijuana went from 680 per year before to 1020 per year after legalization (out of ~14k DUIs)
- Health affects noted are that calls to poison control & ER visits for pot are up.  
https://www.oregonlive.com/expo/news/erry-2018/06/932fe5664b5193/what_we_know_and_dont_know_aft.html

Other quick stats not in the article but I was curious about:

- $85 million in new tax revenue last year
- Marijuana arrests ~3300 (numbered ~13k before legalization, Oklahoma had about 11k arrests in 2016...nearly 10% of all arrests)
- No increase in traffic overall crashes in Oregon as of 2016 (if stoned drivers are causing crashes, they may not always get caught so the overall crash rate could be an indicator)

https://apps.state.or.us/Forms/Served/le8509b.pdf  (Dec 2016 report, but more thorough than an article)
https://www.oregon.gov/osp/CJIS/Pages/annual_reports.aspx
https://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2017/10/oregon_pays_out_85_million_in_1.html

The state FAQ provides some good guidance to our legislatures on how to solve the problems they have identified:
https://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuana/Pages/FAQs-Personal-Use.aspx

Oklahoma isn't breaking new ground.  If Oregon can control a fully legal recreational market with limited negative consequences, surely we can handle this.  Lets learn what worked well and what did not work well in other states.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 02, 2018, 09:51:53 am

Oklahoma isn't breaking new ground.  If Oregon can control a fully legal recreational market with limited negative consequences, surely we can handle this.  Lets learn what worked well and what did not work well in other states.




I really do like your youthful enthusiasm, and genuinely hate to be the wet blanket...but this IS Oklahoma.  Where we mess up everything where the legislature is involved, from turnpikes to horse racing to education to county commission structure to 10 Commandments... and now to medical marijuana!  It will be all clustered up before too long, regardless of the will of the people.  And we appear to never learn.


We need to try an amendment, or state question, with the phrase in it that nothing the legislature does affects any part of said article....they can't touch!




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 02, 2018, 11:33:56 am
Interesting article out of Oregon, looking at the affects of 3 years of legal recreational marijuana.  

- Usage among kids/teenagers did not increase (actually went down 1/3 for 8th graders, flat for 11th grade)
- Usage among adults went from 13% to 16% (use in last 30 days)
- DUI positive tests for marijuana went from 680 per year before to 1020 per year after legalization (out of ~14k DUIs)
- Health affects noted are that calls to poison control & ER visits for pot are up.  
https://www.oregonlive.com/expo/news/erry-2018/06/932fe5664b5193/what_we_know_and_dont_know_aft.html

Other quick stats not in the article but I was curious about:

- $85 million in new tax revenue last year
- Marijuana arrests ~3300 (numbered ~13k before legalization, Oklahoma had about 11k arrests in 2016...nearly 10% of all arrests)
- No increase in traffic overall crashes in Oregon as of 2016 (if stoned drivers are causing crashes, they may not always get caught so the overall crash rate could be an indicator)

https://apps.state.or.us/Forms/Served/le8509b.pdf  (Dec 2016 report, but more thorough than an article)
https://www.oregon.gov/osp/CJIS/Pages/annual_reports.aspx
https://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2017/10/oregon_pays_out_85_million_in_1.html

The state FAQ provides some good guidance to our legislatures on how to solve the problems they have identified:
https://www.oregon.gov/olcc/marijuana/Pages/FAQs-Personal-Use.aspx

Oklahoma isn't breaking new ground.  If Oregon can control a fully legal recreational market with limited negative consequences, surely we can handle this.  Lets learn what worked well and what did not work well in other states.



The Arkansas model seems geared towards maintaining as much of the status-quo corruption as before; no wonder Oklahoma seems focused on that.  

When you read thru Oklahoma's draft framework
http://omma.ok.gov/Websites/ddeer/images/REVISED.MMR.WorkingDraft.JE06262018.pdf
it seems to treat Medical Marijuana as something between Plutonium and 3.2 beer.  

Action at the federal level is also essential because as long as the DEA claims it as Schedule I you have banking issues, and ATF voiding parts of the 2nd Amendment and on and on.  

U.S. Senate Votes To Legalize Hemp After Decades-Long Ban Under Marijuana Prohibition
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2018/06/28/u-s-senate-votes-to-legalize-hemp-after-decades-long-ban-under-marijuana-prohibition/

Ok, thats hemp manufacturing, which is related but peripherally.  Congress is making some noises but we cant imagine the lobbying going on at that level.
...and then there is that moment they realize they are out of touch:

Lankford Gets Smoked in Primary

 U.S. Sen. James Lankford recorded a TV ad urging voters to reject the (medical marijuana) measure, arguing that “our families won’t be better if more parents and grandparents smoke more marijuana.” Gov. Mary Fallin said the measure “basically allows recreational marijuana in the state of Oklahoma.”

Tuesday’s results suggest that Oklahoma Republicans largely shrugged off those concerns. About 53 percent of voters cast ballots in the GOP gubernatorial primary this evening, suggesting the medical marijuana measure won over a majority-Republican electorate.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2018/06/27/oklahoma-voters-just-approved-one-of-the-most-progressive-medical-marijuana-bills-in-the-country/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 09, 2018, 02:20:50 pm
Oklahoma is looking for ways to stop marijuana-impaired drivers, but solution may not be cut-and-dry



When an officer has probable cause to believe a driver is under the influence, they may order a blood, urine or saliva test. Under state law, those tests also check for “metabolites” found in Schedule 1 drugs, such as marijuana, that can stay in a consumers’ systems for days or even weeks.

Chad Moody is an Oklahoma-City based lawyer who has dubbed himself “The Drug Lawyer.” He specializes in cases involving marijuana.

He called Oklahoma’s laws on driving under the influence of drugs “nonsensical,” pointing to how long it can take marijuana to completely leave someone’s system.

“As long as (the law) is written that way, it will make any medical marijuana user who drives within 30 days, any detectable amount, automatically DUID (driving while under the influence of drugs).”

Blake Johnson is an attorney in Oklahoma City who has studied metabolite laws in Oklahoma and other states. He said under those laws, a driver can be arrested for a DUI weeks or months after consuming drugs.

Oklahoma expanded its DUI liability laws in 2013 to include drivers who have metabolites from Schedule I drugs in their systems. Those metabolites stay in someone’s system long after the intoxicating effect expires.


https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/oklahoma-is-looking-for-ways-to-stop-marijuana-impaired-drivers-but-solution-may-not-be-cut-and-dry/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: swake on July 10, 2018, 12:39:30 pm
The state health board just voted on their rules for medical marijuana.

No selling of "smokable" marijuana.

Say what now?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 10, 2018, 12:49:58 pm
The state health board just voted on their rules for medical marijuana.

No selling of "smokable" marijuana.

Say what now?

Pretty good chance this will go to court.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 10, 2018, 12:50:31 pm
The state health board just voted on their rules for medical marijuana.

No selling of "smokable" marijuana.

Say what now?



No one can possibly be surprised.  This should have been a constitutional amendment with no tampering by legislature clause.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 10, 2018, 01:41:23 pm
(http://78.media.tumblr.com/6cc0757a519e5fd0f6ce5fa3ebce58ad/tumblr_nkzc51tVz71qewacoo1_r1_500.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: swake on July 10, 2018, 01:49:20 pm


No one can possibly be surprised.  This should have been a constitutional amendment with no tampering by legislature clause.



The new state questions are constitutional changes. I'm now going to sign simply because these kinds of games we play in Oklahoma against the will/good of the people pisses me off.

Where does one sign these?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 10, 2018, 04:01:32 pm
The new state questions are constitutional changes. I'm now going to sign simply because these kinds of games we play in Oklahoma against the will/good of the people pisses me off.

Where does one sign these?


No idea but am looking, too.


Edit:   Found it - very easy!  Am heading out after work to sign up.

Locations;

https://gtvok.com/locations




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 10, 2018, 04:51:16 pm
Well, never mind about edibles, this pretty much kills that. 

Also curious: Are Oklahoma doctors now required to do a pregnancy test on a woman of child-bearing age prior to prescribing any sort of pharmaceutical which has a caution against taking the med while pregnant? 

Quote
No medical marijuana products could be made enticing to children, such as candy, fake cigarettes or gummies.

Physicians would not be able to recommend a woman of childbearing age for medical marijuana prescriptions without first performing a pregnancy test. If the woman is pregnant, the physician could still make a recommendation if he or she determines that the benefits of medical marijuana use outweigh the risk of harm.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/state-health-board-restricts-dispensaries-from-selling-smokable-marijuana-as/article_4d8c1768-0166-5c80-b60d-4fe91be95a15.html?utm_source=WhatCountsEmail&utm_medium=_Latest%20News&utm_campaign=Latest%20News


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: erfalf on July 10, 2018, 05:06:43 pm
Well, never mind about edibles, this pretty much kills that. 

Also curious: Are Oklahoma doctors now required to do a pregnancy test on a woman of child-bearing age prior to prescribing any sort of pharmaceutical which has a caution against taking the med while pregnant? 

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/state-health-board-restricts-dispensaries-from-selling-smokable-marijuana-as/article_4d8c1768-0166-5c80-b60d-4fe91be95a15.html?utm_source=WhatCountsEmail&utm_medium=_Latest%20News&utm_campaign=Latest%20News

Honestly, is there ever a case when an alternative is not an option when a women is pregnant?

Surely this occurs about as often as it necessary to kill a baby in the womb for the health of the mother. In other words, exceedingly rare.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: swake on July 10, 2018, 05:19:42 pm
Honestly, is there ever a case when an alternative is not an option when a women is pregnant?

Surely this occurs about as often as it necessary to kill a baby in the womb for the health of the mother. In other words, exceedingly rare.

What are you babbling about? The rules state this:

Quote
Physicians would not be able to recommend a woman of childbearing age for medical marijuana prescriptions without first performing a pregnancy test.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/state-health-board-restricts-dispensaries-from-selling-smokable-marijuana-as/article_4d8c1768-0166-5c80-b60d-4fe91be95a15.html?utm_source=WhatCountsEmail&utm_medium=_Latest%20News&utm_campaign=Latest%20News


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: erfalf on July 10, 2018, 08:33:51 pm
What are you babbling about? The rules state this:

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/state-health-board-restricts-dispensaries-from-selling-smokable-marijuana-as/article_4d8c1768-0166-5c80-b60d-4fe91be95a15.html?utm_source=WhatCountsEmail&utm_medium=_Latest%20News&utm_campaign=Latest%20News

The language still does not prohibit it. Just states that a test must be performed first.

(https://i.imgflip.com/1303a1.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 10, 2018, 08:35:56 pm
The new state questions are constitutional changes. I'm now going to sign simply because these kinds of games we play in Oklahoma against the will/good of the people pisses me off.

Where does one sign these?

Green the Vote, a group that has circulated multiple failed marijuana petitions in the past, needs to collect about 124,000 valid signatures by Aug. 8. That would put State Question 797 on the Nov. 6 ballot. If the state question is approved by voters, no legislative changes could be made.

For comparison, State Question 788, which legalized medical marijuana in Oklahoma, made it on the June 26 ballot after garnering about 63,000 signatures. Statutory petitions that pass result in laws that are subject to legislative changes. They require far fewer signatures than constitutional petitions.


Because each new petition relates to a proposed constitutional amendment, each requires the collection of around 124,000 signatures by Aug. 8 in order to appear on the November ballot. State Question 788, which outlined the legalization of medical marijuana based on a doctor’s approval without a preset list of conditions, made it on the June 26 ballot after garnering more than 63,000 signatures.

SQ 796 as of Tuesday had just under 60,000 signatures collected and SQ 797 had roughly 65,000, Caviness said.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/new-petition-tries-for-recreational-marijuana-as-oklahoma-works-to/article_d90ddf7c-1aa4-5c18-8f8a-0a3b5ab957a8.html

As for the "health experts" banning smoking because of the risks of smoking, please note they arent subjecting tobacco products to the same scrutiny.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 10, 2018, 08:49:52 pm
The irony of course is that, as a result of watering down the medical marijuana initiative into something inert and unworkable, the voters are now compelled to bring to fruition the very thing legislators, big pharma and the police unions feared.

If we get recreational marijuana, we will have the deep-pocketed opposition to medical marijuana to thank for it.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: swake on July 10, 2018, 08:51:16 pm
The language still does not prohibit it. Just states that a test must be performed first.

(https://i.imgflip.com/1303a1.jpg)

Please list the other drugs that require a pregnancy test before a script can be written.

Otherwise this is just punitive crap to make use harder. Like no sales on Sunday. What other drugs can't be sold on Sunday? What is the public need that this rule satisfies?

Because freedom?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 10, 2018, 09:01:12 pm
Pretty good chance this will go to court.


“The board has essentially just handed control of an entire industry to one special interest group. This is not only inappropriate; it is borderline corrupt.”

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/ban-on-dispensary-sale-of-smokables-could-set-up-legal/article_6def4c19-6bf1-5aad-b6b8-3c2a53c25ceb.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: erfalf on July 10, 2018, 09:10:01 pm
Please list the other drugs that require a pregnancy test before a script can be written.

Otherwise this is just punitive crap to make use harder. Like no sales on Sunday. What other drugs can't be sold on Sunday? What is the public need that this rule satisfies?

Because freedom?



I'm fine with putting the responsibility on the individual, and not the doctor. Doctors should be able to trust the patient without fear of lawsuits just as much as the patient should be able trust the doctor.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 10, 2018, 09:38:28 pm

“The board has essentially just handed control of an entire industry to one special interest group. This is not only inappropriate; it is borderline corrupt.”

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/ban-on-dispensary-sale-of-smokables-could-set-up-legal/article_6def4c19-6bf1-5aad-b6b8-3c2a53c25ceb.html

Why am I not surprised. In two years it will be a century since prohibition was enacted, and then in 13 years (2033) it will be a century since the repeal of prohibition, and I'm willing to bet that Oklahoma will still be in the stoneage for liquor laws.

And do they really think that they will get a licensed pharmacist to manage the dispensary? I doubt it.

The buckle of the bible belt strikes again!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 10, 2018, 10:39:39 pm

And do they really think that they will get a licensed pharmacist to manage the dispensary? I doubt it.


Giving someone authority of a government entity for the purpose of crippling that entity is in vogue these days, it would seem.


Dispensaries shall not sell marijuana in smokable form, nor may they be open on Sundays. Dispensary managers must be licensed pharmacists.

Medical marijuana products processed or dispensed shall not have more than 12 percent tetrahydrocannabinol, or THC, while mature marijuana plants cannot have THC content that exceeds 20 percent.

Patients younger than 18 would require two pediatrician recommendations for medical marijuana, and pediatric patients would be prohibited from smoking or vaping.




How the Board of Health voted on State Question 788 rules

The state Board of Health, in a controversial 5-4 decision, voted to ban the sale of smokable medical marijuana products at dispensaries.

If Gov. Mary Fallin upholds the rules, patients seeking smokable products will need to grow them at their homes in order to obtain them legally.

The draft rules provided to the public included provisions for the use of smokable medical marijuana, but board member Charles Skillings made a last-minute oral amendment.

The move came a day after the Oklahoma State Medical Association demanded the removal of those provisions, even suggesting it might initiate litigation if they remained.

Here's how each board member voted:

Board President Timothy Starkey, executive director of Great Salt Plains Health Center: yea


Board Vice-President Edward Legako, pediatrician in Lawton and member of board of trustees for Comanche County Memorial Hospital: nay

Treasurer Becky Payton, vice president of operations for Mercy Hospital (at-large board member): nay

Jenny Alexopulos, associate dean of clinical services and Professor of Family Medicine with the Oklahoma State University College of Osteopathic Medicine: yea - represents Tulsa County

Terry Gerard, Emergency Department Physician at the Medical Center of Southeastern Oklahoma: yea

Charles Grim, Deputy Director of Health Services for the Cherokee Nation: nay

R. Murali Krishna, former president and COO of INTEGRIS Mental Health: yea - represents Oklahoma County

Ronald Osterhout, southwestern Oklahoma agricultural industry member: nay

Charles Skillings, CEO of St. Anthony Shawnee Hospital: yea


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/ban-on-dispensary-sale-of-smokables-could-set-up-legal/article_6def4c19-6bf1-5aad-b6b8-3c2a53c25ceb.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 11, 2018, 07:19:35 am
No Sunday sales... you know, for medical reasons.

Also, any truth to the Facebook rumor that pharmacists are prohibited from dispensing  Marijuana in Oklahoma? If so, is that just temporary as they come up with new rules or is it simply a deal breaker (pharmacists have access to other drugs Uncle Sam regulates, so it could be a federal thing?).  I'd hate to rely on Facebook for my outrage, surely someone can cure my ignorance.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 11, 2018, 08:07:36 am
No Sunday sales... you know, for medical reasons.

Also, any truth to the Facebook rumor that pharmacists are prohibited from dispensing  Marijuana in Oklahoma? If so, is that just temporary as they come up with new rules or is it simply a deal breaker (pharmacists have access to other drugs Uncle Sam regulates, so it could be a federal thing?).  I'd hate to rely on Facebook for my outrage, surely someone can cure my ignorance.



"All drugs listed in Schedule I have no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States and therefore may not be prescribed, administered, or dispensed for medical use."
https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/pract/pract_manual012508.pdf


Im pretty sure the Oklahoma Board of Health knows that pharmacists cant legally prescribe a Schedule I drug, so a state law/rule requiring a pharmacist to break federal law seems more like a tactic than an oversight.  

Im wondering if the state board may have actually violated federal law themselves by advising or potentially compelling pharmacists to perform an illegal act?  Certainly that would be cause to remove them from the board.

https://www.drugs.com/csa-schedule.html

Im not sure how individual states "rescheduled" medical marijuana, but ultimately Congress and the DEA need to get their act together so states like Oklahoma cant use them as their excuse.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 11, 2018, 09:39:11 am
The state health board just voted on their rules for medical marijuana.

No selling of "smokable" marijuana.

Say what now?

"Smokable" is not really necessary for truly medicinal purposes, at least to my knowledge.

As long as oil extracts and edibles are on the table and they still allow an acceptable limit on THC for those with insomnia issues, it would be fine.  I did see somewhere they were trying to limit the % of THC in MMJ to 20% or less if I read that right.

I do hear they sell some mighty fine chocolates up in Colorado.

It's funny how much the anti side was losing their collective schitt in the lead up to the Oklahoma vote.  New Mexico is an MMJ state and you would never know it.  I don't even have a clue how the system works here.  There are no dispensaries that I've seen though I have found CBD oils and products in common gift stores.  I can count the number of times I've smelled MJ smoke either as a tourist or resident here on less than five fingers.  Meth, heroin, and opioids still seem to be the crisis here, just like Oklahoma.  Wait, what?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 11, 2018, 10:07:35 am
"Smokable" is not really necessary for truly medicinal purposes, at least to my knowledge.

As long as oil extracts and edibles are on the table and they still allow an acceptable limit on THC for those with insomnia issues, it would be fine.  I did see somewhere they were trying to limit the % of THC in MMJ to 20% or less if I read that right.

I do hear they sell some mighty fine chocolates up in Colorado.

It's funny how much the anti side was losing their collective schitt in the lead up to the Oklahoma vote.


In Tulsa there was schitt-loosing almost from day one:
https://www.tulsaworld.com/newshomepage1/video-pot-petitioners-say-police-harassment-continues/article_a40c563a-9e7b-51fd-ac14-9365182de3eb.html
but not as physically violent as Sheriff Shrek manhandling people at his "vote no" rally.

As for smokable Vs. edible Vs. pills, the difference is speed of delivery.  Oral consumption might be fine for maintenance but not as effective when someone is having seizures.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 11, 2018, 10:55:46 am
I don't know how the dispensary system worked in Oregon other than if you had a card you got it at the pharmacy, but even before recreational  legalization, I could smell who was carrying or had recently smoked, even sitting at a traffic light. After legalization it was a daily occurrence to smell it, even the people that were vaping could be spotted easily. Vaping became the popular method as you could smoke it in the open and at a distance no one would know if it was tobacco based or pot base, while others would use a sneak a toke or pinch hitter (not that I would know anything about those items) to smoke in public, and public consumption is not legal. It wasn't that more people were doing it, it's just that those that were didn't have to look over their shoulders. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 12, 2018, 08:15:11 am
I don't know how the dispensary system worked in Oregon other than if you had a card you got it at the pharmacy, but even before recreational  legalization, I could smell who was carrying or had recently smoked, even sitting at a traffic light. After legalization it was a daily occurrence to smell it, even the people that were vaping could be spotted easily. Vaping became the popular method as you could smoke it in the open and at a distance no one would know if it was tobacco based or pot base, while others would use a sneak a toke or pinch hitter (not that I would know anything about those items) to smoke in public, and public consumption is not legal. It wasn't that more people were doing it, it's just that those that were didn't have to look over their shoulders. 



If the state health board was looking for a way to get itself sued, anger hundreds of thousands of voters and boost the effort to legalize recreational marijuana, mission accomplished.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-health-board-should-reverse-smokable-marijuana-rule/article_9b1e5227-cbac-5720-8d55-33a1d38d5216.html



The medical cannabis rules introduced Tuesday by the Oklahoma State Board of Health surprised many political observers and marijuana industry hopefuls.

Perhaps most surprising was the last-minute introductions of rules that would ban smokable forms and some edibles, and the requirement that retailers employ a pharmacist to dispense marijuana. Oklahomans took to social media to express outrage, including members of the Legislature.

State Rep. Forrest Bennett, D-Oklahoma City, tweeted that the Health Department ignored the will of the people who voted for State Question 788.

"By banning many edible forms and now banning smokable products, they're attacking the spirit of the law," Bennett wrote. "I will do everything I can to correct this, and I'm sure many of my House colleagues feel the same."

House Floor Leader Jon Echols told The Oklahoman that the board blindsided other government officials by adopting rules that had been pushed by the state's medical community.

https://newsok.com/article/5601069/state-agencies-could-lose-power-in-furor-over-new-cannabis-rules


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on July 13, 2018, 09:18:15 am
This seems like a classic case of regulatory capture.  The Health Board is dominated by and is beholden to an industry that overwhelmingly opposed SQ 788.  Thus, the effort by the health board to overturn the clear mandate of the voters is not surprising.

It is interesting that legislators of both parties are being so critical of the health board’s actions.  I think that is indicative that most politicians, whatever their personal position on the issue, clearly understand the voters will be angry by this attempt to undo the basic intent of SQ 788 and will seek revenge at the ballot box.  It’s too bad Fallin either lacks the good political instinct to understand that or simply doesn’t care as she heads out the door.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 13, 2018, 11:09:23 am
This seems like a classic case of regulatory capture.  The Health Board is dominated by and is beholden to an industry that overwhelmingly opposed SQ 788.  Thus, the effort by the health board to overturn the clear mandate of the voters is not surprising.

It is interesting that legislators of both parties are being so critical of the health board’s actions.  I think that is indicative that most politicians, whatever their personal position on the issue, clearly understand the voters will be angry by this attempt to undo the basic intent of SQ 788 and will seek revenge at the ballot box.  It’s too bad Fallin either lacks the good political instinct to understand that or simply doesn’t care as she heads out the door.




She has never cared about the people/voters of this state - only the people who bought and paid for her and Minions.






Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 13, 2018, 10:27:17 pm
This seems like a classic case of regulatory capture.  The Health Board is dominated by and is beholden to an industry that overwhelmingly opposed SQ 788.  Thus, the effort by the health board to overturn the clear mandate of the voters is not surprising.

The requisite "stupid voters dont know what they are doing" quote from the Opium-prescribing "Pain Management" industry:

Oklahoma State Medical Association President Jean Hausheer says she's convinced Oklahoma voters didn't fully realize the implications of State Question 788, which passed June 26 with nearly 57 percent of the vote.

https://newsok.com/article/5600772/doctors-pharmacists-propose-ban-on-smoking-medical-pot

Maybe its more like the script doctors didnt realize how many older voters really sincerely want an alternative to highly addictive opioids.


 “What appears to have happened is the unelected board of health chose to amend those regulations on the spot, to things that had never been discussed.”
https://newsok.com/article/5600886/dispensaries-must-hire-pharmacists


So now two lawsuits and the threat of jail for the board's backroom shenanigans.  Some resignations might be in order now.

"We call on the district attorney of Oklahoma County to file charges against those five members for violations of the Open Meetings Act.
“It is a misdemeanor. It carries potential fines, and it carries potential jail time. And we’ve asked (prosecutors) to act.”


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/medical-marijuana-lawsuit-health-board-members-met-privately-to-draft/article_d60f5704-189c-517d-b09d-de7ccc2ebcfa.html




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on July 16, 2018, 08:16:37 am
Ahh yes, the-voters-are-ignorant-so-we-need-to-fix-it-for-them argument.  

The same thing happened last year when we voted to soften our criminal drug laws:
Quote
In November, Oklahomans voted to downgrade virtually all drug possession cases into misdemeanors. The criminal justice reformers who voted against House Bill 1482 said the people spoke clearly about what they wanted. Supporters of the bill, however, said voters weren't told the state question eliminated what they described as drug-free school zones.

“It's not overturning the will of the people, because the people did not get a chance to vote on it,” said state Rep. Bobby Cleveland, R-Slaughterville.
https://newsok.com/article/5541013/house-votes-to-reverse-some-voter-approved-criminal-justice-reforms

Quote
“Nowhere in the state question did it mention what some of those changes were, or the effect of them,” said Shortey, R-Oklahoma City. “People basically did not know exactly how much of the statutes were being changed.”
https://newsok.com/article/5536406/oklahomas-brand-new-drug-law-on-chopping-block


Or the 10 Commandments:
Quote
After voters rejected a state question that would have allowed a Ten Commandments monument on public property, lawmakers recently approved legislation that could have the same effect.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/lawmakers-speak-on-new-law-allowing-ten-commandments-public-display/article_f86ed487-d192-5f59-b3b6-20bb2678da5e.html


Then again... these are the same voters who pick our duly elected State government.  So maybe they are on to something.  Or maybe the"voters don't know what they are doing" rule only applies to outcomes they don't like?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 16, 2018, 08:32:40 am
Ahh yes, the-voters-are-ignorant-so-we-need-to-fix-it-for-them argument.  

The same thing happened last year when we voted to soften our criminal drug laws:https://newsok.com/article/5541013/house-votes-to-reverse-some-voter-approved-criminal-justice-reforms
https://newsok.com/article/5536406/oklahomas-brand-new-drug-law-on-chopping-block


Or the 10 Commandments:https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/lawmakers-speak-on-new-law-allowing-ten-commandments-public-display/article_f86ed487-d192-5f59-b3b6-20bb2678da5e.html

This time the backlash will result in enshrinement of recreational marijuana in the states constitution years before it might have happened otherwise, because thats apparently the only way voter-approved medical marijuana is going to see sunlight.


The number of signatures in support of State Question 797 rose by more than 20,000 in the last week...

The spike in support came after the Oklahoma State Department of Health voted to ban smokable medical marijuana last week.

“I think it’s a clear message that the people here in Oklahoma are aggravated with what the health department did last week"

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/organizers-recreational-marijuana-petition-now-just-signatures-shy-of-threshold/article_02fe44da-3c83-5634-a5da-256ab2ad3ef6.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 16, 2018, 09:46:54 am
This time the backlash will result in enshrinement of recreational marijuana in the states constitution years before it might have happened otherwise, because thats apparently the only way voter-approved medical marijuana is going to see sunlight.


The number of signatures in support of State Question 797 rose by more than 20,000 in the last week...

The spike in support came after the Oklahoma State Department of Health voted to ban smokable medical marijuana last week.

“I think it’s a clear message that the people here in Oklahoma are aggravated with what the health department did last week"

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/organizers-recreational-marijuana-petition-now-just-signatures-shy-of-threshold/article_02fe44da-3c83-5634-a5da-256ab2ad3ef6.html



I signed them.  Been haranguing friends and relatives to do same.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 16, 2018, 11:04:56 pm
Funny, I was up in Colorado today.  I'm still not seeing a bunch of pot-dazed zombies wandering around aimlessly all over the place as was depicted by the anti 788 crowd.

Watching people come and go from a dispensary is pretty fascinating.  Most are very clean cut and I see people clearly older than myself coming and going not at all what the unenlightened might expect and outright lied about who is benefiting from legal RMJ.

(Hey, I was fueling my car next door to one today and I do shop at a Wal-Mart next to one as well).


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2018, 09:15:49 am
Funny, I was up in Colorado today.  I'm still not seeing a bunch of pot-dazed zombies wandering around aimlessly all over the place as was depicted by the anti 788 crowd.

Watching people come and go from a dispensary is pretty fascinating.  Most are very clean cut and I see people clearly older than myself coming and going not at all what the unenlightened might expect and outright lied about who is benefiting from legal RMJ.

(Hey, I was fueling my car next door to one today and I do shop at a Wal-Mart next to one as well).


You aren't seeing them because they don't exist.  Except in the dementia filled world of the hysterical right wing extremist nonsense machine.

Older than you?  Yeah, we been waiting a long time for this!   And now there is a real opportunity for so many to get away from the opioids!!   Except for the obstructionist Jeff Session on the Federal level...  Guess he figures it's better for us to keep our guns and hard drugs...!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 17, 2018, 04:37:54 pm
Health Department official faked threats after Medical Marijuana ruling

The general counsel for the Oklahoma State Department of Health, who abruptly left her post Friday, faces criminal charges of falsely reporting a crime and creating a fictitious email to send herself threats over the agency's work on the state's new medical marijuana program.

Julie Ezell submitted her resignation Friday afternoon from the health department, hours after the filing of two lawsuits challenging emergency rules approved by the state Board of Health on July 10 regarding State Question 788.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/health-department-s-top-attorney-sent-threats-to-herself-regarding/article_cc17986d-98fd-5b44-ac50-c647ed371f15.html





Rogers County DA recuses from investigation into medical marijuana advocate's allegations against sheriff

The Rogers County district attorney has recused his office from evaluating whether a report filed by a medical marijuana advocate against the Rogers County sheriff would lead to charges.

Claremore Deputy Police Chief Steve Cox said Tuesday that the department received the report from Charles “Chip” Paul, co-founder and chairman of Oklahomans for Health, July 6. It was sent to Rogers County District Attorney Matt Ballard's office July 9.

Paul filed a lawsuit last month against Sheriff Scott Walton alleging that Walton assaulted him. Paul was attending a forum about medical marijuana at the Claremore Conference Center in June when he was marched out of the facility by Walton, video showed.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/rogers-county-da-recuses-from-investigation-into-medical-marijuana-advocate/article_c6f6c631-03ba-5b1e-9dbe-ba8b40c73d71.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 17, 2018, 08:54:59 pm

You aren't seeing them because they don't exist.  Except in the dementia filled world of the hysterical right wing extremist nonsense machine.

Older than you?  Yeah, we been waiting a long time for this!   And now there is a real opportunity for so many to get away from the opioids!!   Except for the obstructionist Jeff Session on the Federal level...  Guess he figures it's better for us to keep our guns and hard drugs...!


Maybe Sessions owns stock in a casket company.  Opiates help find occupants for them every day.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 18, 2018, 07:25:33 am
Maybe Sessions owns stock in a casket company.  Opiates help find occupants for them every day.


Yeah.  Wouldn't it be nice if we had a rational approach to mj ??   At this point, it might just be so much of a shock to my system that I would just go ahead and stroke out...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on July 18, 2018, 11:20:50 am
Oklahoma AG: Board of Health does not have authority to ban smokable marijuana

http://ktul.com/news/local/oklahoma-ag-tells-health-board-to-amend-rules-banning-smokable-marijuana (http://ktul.com/news/local/oklahoma-ag-tells-health-board-to-amend-rules-banning-smokable-marijuana)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (KTUL) — Oklahoma Attorney General Mike Hunter has instructed the State Board of Health to amend the rules it recently implemented concerning medical marijuana.


Last week, the State Board of Health voted to implement rules banning the sale of smokable marijuana, despite outcry from proponents of State Question 788. Hunter wrote in a letter to the board that the Health Department cannot prohibit the sale of certain types of marijuana, based on the wording of the law.

"The current rules contain provisions that are inconsistent with the plain language of State Question 788 and the State Board of Health acted outside of its authority when it voted to implement them,” Hunter said in a press release. “Although I didn’t support State Question 788, the people of the state have spoken and I have a legal duty to honor the decision made by the electorate. My advice today is made pursuant to that responsibility as attorney general."

Hunter called for the Board of Health to convene a special meeting to amend the rules.

The Board of Health's role in limiting the availability of marijuana products is confined to "food and safety standards that are in line with food preparation guidelines," Hunter said in a press release. Hunter said the board does not have the authority to require dispensaries to have pharmacists present on-site for at least 40 hours a week, which was one of the rules approved by the board.

“Moving forward, I encourage all stakeholders to engage with the legislative working group looking at medical marijuana to ensure they have their concerns and recommendations heard and addressed by the legislature," Hunter said in the release.

The Board of Health is facing multiple lawsuits over the emergency medical marijuana rules.

According to the Attorney General's Office, the other concerns outlined in Hunter's letter to the Health Department include:

Restricting dispensaries to limited locations;
Prohibiting dispensaries from co-locating with other businesses;
Requiring medical marijuana be grown, processed and dispensed in enclosed structures;
Requiring a surety bond for licensing;
Setting hours of operation;
Limiting the amount of THC in flower, leaf or concentrate for sale or distribution.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on July 18, 2018, 11:24:59 am
Maybe Sessions owns stock in a casket company.  Opiates help find occupants for them every day.

I know such a potential benefit gets touted by supporters of medical marijuana, but are you aware of any evidence that it is actually so?  From what I’ve seen, so far the data shows no real decrease in opioid use/abuse/overdoses in states that have legalized medical or recreational marijuana.

As an aside, at last night’s Women in Recovery graduation ceremony most of the graduating women spoke of their early pot usage as a beginning of their terrible journey to addiction and all the attendant nightmares associated with it.  Some truly heartbreaking stories.  I’m not trying to make a case of pot as a gateway drug or that correlation is causation, but this was a stark reminder of the sad reality that for a number of people using alcohol or pot at a young age will not be simply youthful experimentation or a rite of passage to adulthood.  Instead, it will lead to a destructive cycle of broken lives, abused and neglected children and destroyed families.  Medical marijuana may be a good thing on balance for some people, but it is naive to think that making marijuana legally more readily available will not come with negative consequences for a significant number of individuals.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 18, 2018, 12:00:13 pm
I know such a potential benefit gets touted by supporters of medical marijuana, but are you aware of any evidence that it is actually so?  From what I’ve seen, so far the data shows no real decrease in opioid use/abuse/overdoses in states that have legalized medical or recreational marijuana.

As an aside, at last night’s Women in Recovery graduation ceremony most of the graduating women spoke of their early pot usage as a beginning of their terrible journey to addiction and all the attendant nightmares associated with it.  Some truly heartbreaking stories.  I’m not trying to make a case of pot as a gateway drug or that correlation is causation, but this was a stark reminder of the sad reality that for a number of people using alcohol or pot at a young age will not be simply youthful experimentation or a rite of passage to adulthood.  Instead, it will lead to a destructive cycle of broken lives, abused and neglected children and destroyed families.  Medical marijuana may be a good thing on balance for some people, but it is naive to think that making marijuana legally more readily available will not come with negative consequences for a significant number of individuals.



It's even more naive to think that a large number of people are not already using mj - up to 1/3 or more...when it's illegal.

There has been a steady process of liberalizing mj laws - for decades!  And there are no indications of big increases of adverse effects.  In fact, if one is concerned about morality rates from opioids, the JAMA has found that death rates in states with easier mj laws are running on average 25% less than the Jeff Sessions attitude states.  That is a significant positive effect.

https://nypost.com/2017/09/14/marijuana-legalization-hasnt-led-to-more-drug-abuse-study/



As for all the hoopla about increased fatal accident rates from mj...well, WA claims it has "doubled" in the last several years.  The numbers just don't show it as a big problem.  They published a report covering 2008 - 2016. (Link below).  4,000 drivers were either not tested or tested negative - no drugs, no alcohol.  Of the several hundred tested positive, the vast majority were positive for alcohol and drugs (1885 total).  There were 188 tested positive for mj only (compared to 670 tested for alcohol only).  Out of 5,900+ that is still a pretty small number - 20 per year.  And if as they claim, that is twice the previous rate - 10 per year - they really aren't seeing any problem at all - it is all in the statistical noise.  And their population grew through that time by somewhere in the 15% range, so normalizing these numbers to rate of population increase would probably give about 7 or 8 more fatal accidents a year due to legal mj.  And how many people received big improvements in medical outcomes in that same time?  I bet it was more than the death rate.

Pag 11.

http://wtsc.wa.gov/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2018/04/Marijuana-and-Alcohol-Involvement-in-Fatal-Crashes-in-WA_FINAL.pdf




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 18, 2018, 01:10:39 pm
As for all the hoopla about increased fatal accident rates from mj...


It is true that hospitalizations have increased over the last decade by people using marijuana, both in states like Colorado that have legalized recreational cannabis and nationwide.

However, due to the way hospitals keep patient records, it is impossible to say that marijuana is the cause of these visits. Rather, it is possible that the higher numbers of high patients are due simply to the fact that more people are using marijuana overall. To say that marijuana is causing emergency room visits to skyrocket is unfounded based on the limited data that has been collected.


http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jul/06/patrick-kennedy/has-marijuana-caused-emergency-room-visits-skyrock/







Oklahoma Attorney General advises Board of Health to amend emergency rules for medical marijuana
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/oklahoma-attorney-general-advises-board-of-health-to-amend-emergency/article_ba058014-c3f3-558d-8d2c-8b9095112c50.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 18, 2018, 01:38:57 pm
I know such a potential benefit gets touted by supporters of medical marijuana, but are you aware of any evidence that it is actually so?  From what I’ve seen, so far the data shows no real decrease in opioid use/abuse/overdoses in states that have legalized medical or recreational marijuana.

Here's one...

Legalized medical cannabis lowers opioid use, study finds
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180402202236.htm

States that have approved medical cannabis laws saw a dramatic reduction in opioid use, according to a new study by researchers at the University of Georgia.

In a paper published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association, Internal Medicine, researchers examined the number of all opioid prescriptions filled between 2010 and 2015 under Medicare Part D, the prescription drug benefit plan available to Medicare enrollees.


https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2676999


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on July 18, 2018, 01:52:04 pm

It's even more naive to think that a large number of people are not already using mj - up to 1/3 or more...when it's illegal.

There has been a steady process of liberalizing mj laws - for decades!  And there are no indications of big increases of adverse effects.  In fact, if one is concerned about morality rates from opioids, the JAMA has found that death rates in states with easier mj laws are running on average 25% less than the Jeff Sessions attitude states.  That is a significant positive effect.

https://nypost.com/2017/09/14/marijuana-legalization-hasnt-led-to-more-drug-abuse-study/



As for all the hoopla about increased fatal accident rates from mj...well, WA claims it has "doubled" in the last several years.  The numbers just don't show it as a big problem.  They published a report covering 2008 - 2016. (Link below).  4,000 drivers were either not tested or tested negative - no drugs, no alcohol.  Of the several hundred tested positive, the vast majority were positive for alcohol and drugs (1885 total).  There were 188 tested positive for mj only (compared to 670 tested for alcohol only).  Out of 5,900+ that is still a pretty small number - 20 per year.  And if as they claim, that is twice the previous rate - 10 per year - they really aren't seeing any problem at all - it is all in the statistical noise.  And their population grew through that time by somewhere in the 15% range, so normalizing these numbers to rate of population increase would probably give about 7 or 8 more fatal accidents a year due to legal mj.  And how many people received big improvements in medical outcomes in that same time?  I bet it was more than the death rate.

Pag 11.

http://wtsc.wa.gov/wp-content/uploads/dlm_uploads/2018/04/Marijuana-and-Alcohol-Involvement-in-Fatal-Crashes-in-WA_FINAL.pdf

Nowhere did I say marijuana use wasn’t currently prevalent.  However, what is undisputed is that marijuana use the past 20 years has increased significantly, overlapping the liberalization of marijuana laws.  Again, correlation is not causation.
 
As for studies of the issue, much of the data seems pretty inconclusive if not contradictory.  As noted in this study, for example, one study showed teen usages rates in Colorado remained flat after recreational use was legalized, yet that Colorado is now number 1 in teen usage rates.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/abcs-child-psychiatry/201704/does-legalized-marijuana-result-in-more-teen-use

What I do know, however, is hearing story after story from those ladies in Woman in Recovery and hearing a consistent theme of pot’s role in each of their personal descents into the hell of addition.  That’s real and it shouldn’t be ignored as we implement this new law.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on July 18, 2018, 02:06:44 pm
Here's one...

Legalized medical cannabis lowers opioid use, study finds
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/04/180402202236.htm

States that have approved medical cannabis laws saw a dramatic reduction in opioid use, according to a new study by researchers at the University of Georgia.

In a paper published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association, Internal Medicine, researchers examined the number of all opioid prescriptions filled between 2010 and 2015 under Medicare Part D, the prescription drug benefit plan available to Medicare enrollees.


https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/article-abstract/2676999

Maybe, although this more recent study suggests the benefits are negligible more recently and, to the extent it has any effect, it may only be for prescription opioids. 

https://www.rand.org/news/press/2018/02/06.html

I don't know answer, but I think it is useful to assume that no public policy change leads to unalloyed good outcomes and that legalizing marijuana for medical and/or recreation usage will have down sides.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 18, 2018, 02:38:40 pm
Nowhere did I say marijuana use wasn’t currently prevalent.  However, what is undisputed is that marijuana use the past 20 years has increased significantly, overlapping the liberalization of marijuana laws.  Again, correlation is not causation.
 
As for studies of the issue, much of the data seems pretty inconclusive if not contradictory.  As noted in this study, for example, one study showed teen usages rates in Colorado remained flat after recreational use was legalized, yet that Colorado is now number 1 in teen usage rates.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/abcs-child-psychiatry/201704/does-legalized-marijuana-result-in-more-teen-use

What I do know, however, is hearing story after story from those ladies in Woman in Recovery and hearing a consistent theme of pot’s role in each of their personal descents into the hell of addition.  That’s real and it shouldn’t be ignored as we implement this new law.


Studies, polls, and statistics are easy to manipulate. All you have to do is figure out the response you want and tailor the questions and the studies to fit the answer.

The one thing that I am most curious about is the correlation between genetics and addiction. There are studies as to social, cultural and genetic predisposition to addiction. I would be curious to see if the women in that program had addiction in their ancestry.

I still believe the perceived uptick in the number of people using is the fact that they have come out of the shadows now that it is legal. Before legalization I seriously doubt that you could get an accurate count on the number of recreational users because it was illegal.

https://www.rehabs.com/5-ways-you-can-be-physiologically-predisposed-for-addiction/ (https://www.rehabs.com/5-ways-you-can-be-physiologically-predisposed-for-addiction/)

https://www.rehabs.com/5-socio-cultural-factors-that-cultivate-addiction/ (https://www.rehabs.com/5-socio-cultural-factors-that-cultivate-addiction/)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 19, 2018, 08:19:20 am

The one thing that I am most curious about is the correlation between genetics and addiction. There are studies as to social, cultural and genetic predisposition to addiction. I would be curious to see if the women in that program had addiction in their ancestry.

dbacksfan did a good job of articulating what was in the back of my mind, and while I hesitate to categorize DTowner's group as "born that way," science has recognized that there are groups of people who are more susceptible to addictive behavior than others, and that remains true regardless of what substances are available to them.  They have my support for recognizing their problem and working to overcome it.

On the lighter side, here is Today in Okiehome Pot Politics:




Despite approving emergency rules from the Board of Health last week regulating State Question 788, Gov. Mary Fallin said the board should rescind its adoption of two last-minute amendments that Attorney General Mike Hunter found were improper.

The Health Department, Fallin and the five board members who voted to approve the ban on smokable marijuana sales face a lawsuit in Oklahoma County that alleges violations of the Open Meeting Act.

Tulsa-based attorney Ron Durbin II ... asserted that the five board members named as defendants should immediately resign and asked the Oklahoma County District Attorney’s Office to investigate the matter.

“Even if the board were to correct its serious overreach to usurp the will of the people, it does not change the fact that they well may have violated Oklahoma law during their power grab,” Durbin said.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/gov-mary-fallin-urges-board-to-rescind-last-minute-changes/article_ba058014-c3f3-558d-8d2c-8b9095112c50.html






(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/5e/f5e00291-22d7-544a-87a4-2fad913f1ed8/5b29101445f2f.image.jpg?resize=900%2C575)
VIDEO:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uN1WDdkEjis

Sheriff Scott Walton, through documents filed by his lawyer in federal court, denied Charles “Chip” Paul’s allegations that the sheriff assaulted Paul when he removed Paul from the meeting.

During this confrontation, Walton grabbed Paul by the neck and escorted him from the building. Video of the altercation shows Walton leading Paul out of the facility with both hands around his neck. As Paul is directed through a set of double doors, it appears that his forehead is pushed into one of them.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/rogers-county-sheriff-denies-allegations-in-marijuana-advocate-s-lawsuit/article_17598c03-1aad-567c-8303-1e81e6971669.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 19, 2018, 02:36:11 pm
I know such a potential benefit gets touted by supporters of medical marijuana, but are you aware of any evidence that it is actually so?  From what I’ve seen, so far the data shows no real decrease in opioid use/abuse/overdoses in states that have legalized medical or recreational marijuana.

As an aside, at last night’s Women in Recovery graduation ceremony most of the graduating women spoke of their early pot usage as a beginning of their terrible journey to addiction and all the attendant nightmares associated with it.  Some truly heartbreaking stories.  I’m not trying to make a case of pot as a gateway drug or that correlation is causation, but this was a stark reminder of the sad reality that for a number of people using alcohol or pot at a young age will not be simply youthful experimentation or a rite of passage to adulthood.  Instead, it will lead to a destructive cycle of broken lives, abused and neglected children and destroyed families.  Medical marijuana may be a good thing on balance for some people, but it is naive to think that making marijuana legally more readily available will not come with negative consequences for a significant number of individuals.


Understood.  My "gateway" of altered states was stealing mom's Kent cigarettes and my step dad's beer from the fridge.  I suppose some people may have started experimentation with pot and wanted to try more mind-bending drugs or for some reason that high wasn't enough.  There is, without a doubt, a possibility of emotional or mental dependency on MJ.  Why people progress beyond that, I have no idea.  I've been very uncomfortably stoned before on some really potent weed and couldn't understand some people's propensity to get wrecked on something much harder.

I'm a believer that if people have a pre-disposition to addiction, they will eventually be an addict regardless what is available when they transition to it.  I've known many dry drunks and addicts who have never so much as experimented with drugs or alcohol.  If you are familiar with recovery concepts then you are aware that addiction is a form or manifestation of compulsive behavior.

Because it exists, it doesn't make people addicts, it's just a symptom.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 19, 2018, 03:18:18 pm
Understood.  My "gateway" of altered states was stealing mom's Kent cigarettes and my step dad's beer from the fridge.  I suppose some people may have started experimentation with pot and wanted to try more mind-bending drugs or for some reason that high wasn't enough.  There is, without a doubt, a possibility of emotional or mental dependency on MJ.  Why people progress beyond that, I have no idea.  I've been very uncomfortably stoned before on some really potent weed and couldn't understand some people's propensity to get wrecked on something much harder.

I'm a believer that if people have a pre-disposition to addiction, they will eventually be an addict regardless what is available when they transition to it.  I've known many dry drunks and addicts who have never so much as experimented with drugs or alcohol.  If you are familiar with recovery concepts then you are aware that addiction is a form or manifestation of compulsive behavior.

Because it exists, it doesn't make people addicts, it's just a symptom.

I was a semi-regular weed smoker in the obvious ages.  I dabbled in harder drugs to see what the big deal was about but always came back to weed.  The harder stuff never scared me (what little I used).

However, about two years ago I needed a dental procedure that required pain medication.  He prescribed me 10 doses of oxycodone.  I'd never tried it.  I can see where one might get hooked on them.  I used 8 of them, then flushed the remaining two when I realized naproxen (Aleve) worked just fine at that point.

I think the corollary between medicinal MJ and opioid addiction is so new that the dataset can't be borne out just yet.  Watching what the OHB did these past two weeks though...wouldn't surprise me if nearer in the future than many thought, Oklahoma would legalize recreational.  I say let it happen.  Tax it.  Revenue stream.  Not any worse than alcohol and, as I've said in the past, no confirmed case of someone ODing on cannabis.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 19, 2018, 07:32:45 pm
Pharmacy board head allegedly offered official a job to sway marijuana rules

Oklahoma City — The lawyer for a former state official accused of sending threatening messages to herself over medical marijuana regulations said attempted bribes and pressure from heads of other state agencies had taken a toll on her.

Ed Blau is representing Julie Ezell, the former general counsel at the Oklahoma State Department of Health. Ezell resigned July 13 and was charged Tuesday with two felonies and a misdemeanor for allegedly creating false evidence by emailing threatening messages, which were written as if she were being stalked by a medical marijuana advocate, to herself.

The case took another strange turn Thursday when text messages published by the journalism website NonDoc appeared to show Chelsea Church, director of the Oklahoma State Board of Pharmacy, offering Ezell a job if she wrote a rule requiring medical marijuana dispensaries to hire pharmacists, three days before the board voted.

It wasn't clear from the messages if Church meant to offer a quid pro quo, but Blau said Ezell took the messages seriously.

“It's pretty clear that she had the director of another agency offering her what amounted to a bribe,” he said, adding that other agency heads whom he declined to name also were pressuring Ezell at the time. “She basically was offered a position that was not in the spotlight that she was in, for a lot more money.”

Church didn't respond to a request for comment.

Ultimately, Ezell didn't include the pharmacist requirement in the proposed regulations, but the state Board of Health voted to add it as an amendment at their July 10 meeting.

In the messages, sent in the evening of July 7, Church and Ezell discussed the pharmacist requirement. About 10 p.m., Church broached the issue of a job.


https://newsok.com/article/5601970/pharmacy-board-head-allegedly-offered-official-a-job-to-sway-marijuana-rules


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 19, 2018, 09:18:55 pm
Guess people never learn, and why not much surprises me out of Oklahoma leadership on either side of the aisle. And yes I'm old enough to remember the scandal, and somewhere I have the entire Doonesburry comic strips that covered this. I graduated from Hale in 1981.

https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Times-Good-Boys-Commissioner/dp/0806125489 (https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Times-Good-Boys-Commissioner/dp/0806125489)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 19, 2018, 10:00:34 pm
Guess people never learn, and why not much surprises me out of Oklahoma leadership on either side of the aisle. And yes I'm old enough to remember the scandal, and somewhere I have the entire Doonesburry comic strips that covered this. I graduated from Hale in 1981.

https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Times-Good-Boys-Commissioner/dp/0806125489 (https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Times-Good-Boys-Commissioner/dp/0806125489)

I read somewhere that the song "Dirty Laundry" by Don Henley was partially influenced by the Com Scandal.  I was in jr high school, but I do remember this being all over the news at the time.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 19, 2018, 10:16:21 pm
I read somewhere that the song "Dirty Laundry" by Don Henley was partially influenced by the Com Scandal.  I was in jr high school, but I do remember this being all over the news at the time.

From Wiki FWIW.......

Quote
The song was inspired by the intrusive press coverage surrounding the deaths of John Belushi and Natalie Wood, and Henley's own arrest in 1980 when he was charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor and possession of marijuana, cocaine, and Quaaludes after paramedics treated a 16-year-old girl who subsequently died suffering from drug intoxication at his Los Angeles home.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Laundry_(Don_Henley_song) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Laundry_(Don_Henley_song))

But I can see the idea. That was back when CNN was born and the beginning of the 24 hour news cycle. I still get a kick out of the song today because he saw the way things were going. I was in the LA area when the voice of the LA Lakers Chick Hearn was taken to the hospital in critical condition, and all of the news there was about him around the clock. Long Beach could have fallen into the ocean and the news would not have noticed.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 20, 2018, 08:24:44 am
Guess people never learn, and why not much surprises me out of Oklahoma leadership on either side of the aisle. And yes I'm old enough to remember the scandal, and somewhere I have the entire Doonesburry comic strips that covered this. I graduated from Hale in 1981.

https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Times-Good-Boys-Commissioner/dp/0806125489 (https://www.amazon.com/Bad-Times-Good-Boys-Commissioner/dp/0806125489)


"Local government, the authors argue, is improved but remains vulnerable."

The authors are wrong - it isn't noticeably improved.   I remember at the time, there were a few of them sitting in prison (short times) who also were re-elected.  Just one reason Fed's have given up on worrying about OK.  If we don't care any more about the graft and corruption than to keep putting it in place, why should they??



Hale, huh?   I think there are several of us from there on this board - just shows how great minds congregate.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 20, 2018, 09:29:00 am

"Local government, the authors argue, is improved but remains vulnerable."

The authors are wrong - it isn't noticeably improved.   I remember at the time, there were a few of them sitting in prison (short times) who also were re-elected.  Just one reason Fed's have given up on worrying about OK.  If we don't care any more about the graft and corruption than to keep putting it in place, why should they??

The "War on Drugs" was built on a foundation of corruption and lies.  Some groups gravitated to that with ease.

Meanwhile...

Oklahoma House and Senate leaders have announced the members of a bipartisan legislative working group charged with helping to implement State Question 788 in a “manner that conforms to the will of the voters.”
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/lawmakers-named-to-bipartisan-medical-marijuana-working-group/article_e9b4ab6b-46f1-5504-a258-a5cc6e34fcb8.html

We were anticipating such a group, but it was expected they would be the Pharma-lobbyist-funded wrecking ball and not a state board who was supposed to stick with policing food-borne illnesses and beauty shops.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on July 20, 2018, 10:22:56 am
Pharmacy board head allegedly offered official a job to sway marijuana rules

Oklahoma City — The lawyer for a former state official accused of sending threatening messages to herself over medical marijuana regulations said attempted bribes and pressure from heads of other state agencies had taken a toll on her.

Ed Blau is representing Julie Ezell, the former general counsel at the Oklahoma State Department of Health. Ezell resigned July 13 and was charged Tuesday with two felonies and a misdemeanor for allegedly creating false evidence by emailing threatening messages, which were written as if she were being stalked by a medical marijuana advocate, to herself.

The case took another strange turn Thursday when text messages published by the journalism website NonDoc appeared to show Chelsea Church, director of the Oklahoma State Board of Pharmacy, offering Ezell a job if she wrote a rule requiring medical marijuana dispensaries to hire pharmacists, three days before the board voted.

It wasn't clear from the messages if Church meant to offer a quid pro quo, but Blau said Ezell took the messages seriously.

“It's pretty clear that she had the director of another agency offering her what amounted to a bribe,” he said, adding that other agency heads whom he declined to name also were pressuring Ezell at the time. “She basically was offered a position that was not in the spotlight that she was in, for a lot more money.”

Church didn't respond to a request for comment.

Ultimately, Ezell didn't include the pharmacist requirement in the proposed regulations, but the state Board of Health voted to add it as an amendment at their July 10 meeting.

In the messages, sent in the evening of July 7, Church and Ezell discussed the pharmacist requirement. About 10 p.m., Church broached the issue of a job.


https://newsok.com/article/5601970/pharmacy-board-head-allegedly-offered-official-a-job-to-sway-marijuana-rules

Using the pressure of being bribed as a defense to concocting a fake threat to your life is an interesting approach.  And how does the state Pharmacy Board pays its general counsel more than the Health Dept.?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 20, 2018, 01:52:40 pm
The "War on Drugs" was built on a foundation of corruption and lies.  Some groups gravitated to that with ease.




It is the RWRE I have been using for so long....


And in Okrahoma, decades ago, that was the Democratic party.  Now, it's the Republicans.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 20, 2018, 07:08:31 pm
Using the pressure of being bribed as a defense to concocting a fake threat to your life is an interesting approach.  And how does the state Pharmacy Board pays its general counsel more than the Health Dept.?


Kickbacks from opiate manufacturers?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 21, 2018, 03:36:15 pm
I wonder if Tulsa leadership is even going to take this seriously.



Enid leaders change city ordinance regarding marijuana, drug paraphernalia

ENID, Okla. – After voters approved a state question regarding medical marijuana, city leaders in Enid were forced to change the municipal code.

Under State Question 788, a person 18 years or older would need to apply for a medical marijuana license with the Oklahoma State Department of Health after receiving a note from their doctor. If approved, the patient would then have to pay $100 to obtain that license.

Patients would be allowed to legally possess up to 3 ounces of the drug on them, six mature plants and six seedlings. They could also possess one ounce of concentrated marijuana, 72 ounces of edible marijuana and 8 ounces of marijuana in their home.

Those caught with up to 1.5 ounces of marijuana who “can state a medical condition, but not in possession of a state issued medical marijuana license” could face a misdemeanor charge and a fine not to exceed $400.

The approved ordinance mirrors the language of the state question, meaning the fine for marijuana possession without a medical license has been dropped to $400 or less.

It also repeals the drug paraphernalia offense.

“Drug paraphernalia have become increasingly difficult to figure out what it’s for. Are the papers that you get at the shop, is that for the tobacco or is it for the marijuana? Or is it for a third thing? There aren’t very many prosecutions, and it will get increasingly more difficult with legal medical marijuana so the thought that the chief and I had is, ‘Let’s just forget about it, and let’s see if it’s a humongous problem.’ Our thought, just nix it,” Enid City Attorney Carol
Lahman told the Enid News & Eagle.

The ordinance will go into effect almost immediately since the state question is set to go into effect on August 2.


https://kfor.com/2018/07/19/enid-leaders-change-city-ordinance-regarding-marijuana-drug-paraphernalia/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 23, 2018, 07:31:16 am
More news


The Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation has opened an inquiry into whether the executive director of the Board of Pharmacy bribed the former general counsel for the Department of Health in hopes of gaining favorable medical marijuana rules.

The news, confirmed Friday by OSBI Public Information Officer Jordan Solorzano, comes the same day a Tulsa attorney said Chelsea Church and Julie Ezell will be added as defendants in Green the Vote’s lawsuit over implementation of State Question 788.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/osbi-confirms-inquiry-into-allegations-of-attempted-bribery-by-board/article_51f1550b-2263-5621-99c1-6871360e9742.html#tncms-source=article-nav-next











OKLAHOMA CITY – A trade organization on Friday released a massive draft of a bill to implement medical marijuana as controversy continues to surround rules adopted by a state panel.

Bud Scott, executive director of New Health Solutions Oklahoma, said the board’s rules were designed to effectively kill medical marijuana in the state.

He has called for lawmakers to return in a special session to craft a bill to implement it. Fallin has said she will not call lawmakers into a special session, but two-thirds of the legislature could call a special session.

Scott on Thursday released a 287-page draft bill he said could be used to implement medical marijuana.

The legislation has a prohibition against any arbitrary limits on THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, Scott said.

“The only THC limit is per edible serving and that is a fairly well established standard now — 10 milligrams per serving cap and 100 milligrams per package,” Scott said.

The bill would allow for smoking and vaping as a delivery method, Scott said. Some patients have to have an immediate delivery system, Scott said.

The bill calls for a $2,500 medical marijuana business license that applies to a dispensary, cultivation facility, product manufacturer, transporter and a laboratory. It is one license for each, he said.

The bill would limit growing facilities to 20,000 square feet to protect local growers, Scott said.

Nationally, companies mainly Wall Street-backed are growing in 100,000-square foot facilities that are fully automated, which drives the price down, Scott said.

“They run everyone out of the business,” Scott said, adding that it is important the state get its own industry established first.

The legislation also addresses firearms, Scott said. Under the bill, a medical marijuana licensee shall not be denied the right to possess a gun based solely on their status as a licensee, Scott said.

He said the legislation has protections for businesses, allowing them to prohibit use for an employee engaged in certain activities, such as the operation of heavy equipment.

The bill does not require insurers to reimburse a patient for costs associated with the use of medical marijuana.

In addition, landlords may ban smoking as a delivery method on their premises, Scott said.

The measure would prohibit cities from passing ordinances stricter than what is in State Question 788, but would allow them to put restrictions on locations and numbers of dispensaries. “They can say we prefer we don’t have a dispensary every three blocks,” Scott said.

The measure creates a new, free-standing agency called the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority, Scott said. It will be funded by the license fees and tax revenues.

The state question imposes a 7 percent tax, but the door is open for additional taxes by various entities, Scott said.

Senate Minority Leader John Sparks, D-Norman, said he thinks another draft of board rules will be released.

If the new rules are consistent with State Question 788, no special session would be needed, Sparks said. “But if the board refuses to acknowledge the policy choice of the people as reflected in the vote then we absolutely should, whether the governor will call a special session or not,” Sparks said.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/medical-marijuana-supporters-tout-model-regulatory-legislation/article_2d771304-e08c-5ecb-b282-d65b7ca54337.html





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 23, 2018, 07:50:49 am
More news



The legislation also addresses firearms, Scott said. Under the bill, a medical marijuana licensee shall not be denied the right to possess a gun based solely on their status as a licensee, Scott said.




This is not just a state problem - it is Federal.  And we all have seen what Sessions wants to do...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 23, 2018, 11:38:03 am

This is not just a state problem - it is Federal.  And we all have seen what Sessions wants to do...


DEA wont move to reschedule it until Congress takes them by the hand.


Locally:
State Question 788 takes effect Thursday, but with emergency rules providing an extra 30 days for the state to establish the regulatory framework, that date now means only one thing: Most simple marijuana possession crimes will be punishable only by a $400 fine.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/state-question-takes-effect-this-week-what-do-you-need/article_c8ff67c0-0d9f-521a-8e95-0172881de3b4.html

The loophole of course is our sham DUI law that says you are "intoxicated" if you are cold sober but have even a trace of metabolites in your system, which scientifically is only evidence of exposure but not intoxication.

Meanwhile the constitutional petitions are making more ground:
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/about-signatures-needed-to-get-recreational-marijuana-on-ballot-organizers/article_5716d1f1-a055-5647-8866-9cfc0bdcf87f.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 25, 2018, 03:51:02 pm
Kickbacks from opiate manufacturers?


Pharmacy board terminates executive director amid bribe investigation
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/pharmacy-board-terminates-executive-director-amid-bribe-investigation/article_cd366c10-71c7-5be1-bfa8-00567ae06645.html

OKLAHOMA CITY — The Oklahoma State Board of Pharmacy in a special meeting Wednesday voted to terminate effective immediately its embattled executive director Chelsea Church.

Church is under investigation by the Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation for allegedly offering the former general counsel of the Oklahoma State Department of Health, Julie Ezell, a bribe in an effort to influence rules to implement medical marijuana.


Allegedly Ezel didnt take a bribe to surreptitiously insert specific, controversial language into the proposed rules for medical marijuana, yet those rules found their way into the document presented to the governor for her signature.
Was Ezel the only one offered a bribe?




The original health board rules are wrong because they are undemocratic. They clearly defy the voters’ choices, and they must be revised to come back into agreement with the language of SQ 788. The pending question is: How do we best get there?

We’re back to thinking the health board might get it right, although we frankly don’t have much faith in anyone involved in the process at this point. The board needs to reconvene quickly, fix its mistakes and get out of the way of popular sovereignty.

Otherwise, we’re back to relying on the Oklahoma Legislature to fix the problem, which is leaning on a broken crutch.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-one-way-or-another-the-health-board/article_d6e39081-cf44-5464-9bd8-5f97ac9de654.html


...or just taking it out of the legislature's hands by enshrining medical marijuana in the constitution.

Sign the petition.  Here's where you can:

http://gtvok.com/  or  http://bit.ly/potpetitionlocations


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 26, 2018, 08:30:32 am
As of today, possession of less than an ounce and a half is just a ticket.



The Tulsa Police Department on Wednesday issued the following statement on the medical marijuana measure, which goes into effect today:

"State officials are still convening regarding the regulations and implementation of SQ788. Without a state-issued medical marijuana license, possession and distribution of marijuana is illegal. As such, the Tulsa Police Department will continue to uphold the law as it relates to marijuana. This is a fluid situation and the Tulsa Police Department will be following the state’s decision closely for when the regulations and law changes, and licenses are issued.

"Respectfully, we will not be entertaining interviews in reference to this topic at this time."


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/as-cannabis-groups-talk-medical-marijuana-legislators-ask-why-force/article_3bd2a404-a658-5b20-a3dd-1d033c440fe7.html

SQ 788 also provides that people who do not have a medical marijuana license but who “can state a medical condition” have only committed a misdemeanor if they possess up to 1.5 ounces of marijuana.
That is the law now. Other parts of the bill might be "a fluid situation" but there is no need to wait for "the state's decision" to uphold what legally went into effect today.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/waynegreene/wayne-greene-justice-demands-that-oklahoma-find-a-merciful-option/article_8edfc117-7ae7-537d-b5bb-fe34a1ea73ad.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 26, 2018, 10:00:28 am
RCMP - the Canadian Mounties - are retiring their marijuana sniffing dogs this week.  See...there are civilized countries in the world.!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 27, 2018, 02:14:53 pm
RCMP - the Canadian Mounties - are retiring their marijuana sniffing dogs this week.  See...there are civilized countries in the world.!!

The State Health Board released a draft of new, revised, non-bribery-influenced proposed rules, that include:


• No ban on smokable medication.

• No THC limits would be imposed on cultivators.

• Dispensaries would be able to sell on Sundays.

• No Pharmacist requirement.

• Doctors would not be required to issue pregnancy tests for female patients seeking medical marijuana recommendations; the new rules would only ask that the doctors ascertain a woman's pregnancy status.

• Churches would be removed from the section stating that medical marijuana businesses may not be located within 1,000 feet of a school.

http://omma.ok.gov/Websites/ddeer/images/310-681%20Medical%20Marijuana%20Rules%207-25-18%20Master%20Copy_clean.pdf

https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/new-draft-of-medical-marijuana-emergency-rules-restores-smokables-removes/article_cc23e612-e156-5c1c-a320-9595b5ca87b4.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 28, 2018, 03:34:13 pm
The State Health Board released a draft of new, revised, non-bribery-influenced proposed rules, that include:


• No ban on smokable medication.

• No THC limits would be imposed on cultivators.

• Dispensaries would be able to sell on Sundays.

• No Pharmacist requirement.

• Doctors would not be required to issue pregnancy tests for female patients seeking medical marijuana recommendations; the new rules would only ask that the doctors ascertain a woman's pregnancy status.

• Churches would be removed from the section stating that medical marijuana businesses may not be located within 1,000 feet of a school.

http://omma.ok.gov/Websites/ddeer/images/310-681%20Medical%20Marijuana%20Rules%207-25-18%20Master%20Copy_clean.pdf

https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/new-draft-of-medical-marijuana-emergency-rules-restores-smokables-removes/article_cc23e612-e156-5c1c-a320-9595b5ca87b4.html

Bowing to the will of the people? Say it ain't so.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 28, 2018, 03:39:17 pm
Bowing to the will of the people? Say it ain't so.

What a concept, right?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 28, 2018, 10:19:46 pm
Bowing to the will of the people? Say it ain't so.

For some bureaucrats and unelected officials, the 'will of the people' aint so.



Amid questions on legal enforcement of medical marijuana law, top state lawmaker advises to 'follow the expressed instruction of voters'

State Question 788, following the passage in 2016 of State Question 780, took another step toward decriminalizing marijuana use by reducing the criminal penalty for those without proper licensing who can cite a medical condition.

However, because neither resulted in a overhaul of state drug or paraphernalia possession laws, attorneys in Tulsa County have said jail time for marijuana possession remains a possibility until or unless the Legislature acts to clean up existing statutes.

House Majority Floor Leader Jon Echols, R-Oklahoma City, said Friday that continued aggressive prosecution of simple marijuana possession is clearly contrary to the spirit of both measures. Echols is a co-chairman of the bipartisan, bicameral group working on SQ 788 regulations.

“The citizens have now told us twice they don’t want nonviolent drug offenders going to prison,” he told the Tulsa World.

The possession provision of SQ 788 took legal effect Thursday. It mandates a $400 fine for marijuana users who have 1½ ounces or less and who do not have a patient license but provide a medical condition to authorities.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/amid-questions-on-legal-enforcement-of-medical-marijuana-law-top/article_33468ab4-eaea-51b1-82c0-3da22aa23997.html


...and yet someone has apparently figured it out:

City commission makes code changes related to marijuana
https://www.enidnews.com/news/local_news/city-commission-makes-code-changes-related-to-marijuana/article_36833d9b-2d03-57ab-8455-f5f4746af201.html

Complete ordinance:  https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/enidnews.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/c9/5c950c5c-8b6c-11e8-b9a1-bf987f1c6d81/5b50b5078568b.pdf.pdf


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 29, 2018, 08:45:12 pm
For some bureaucrats and unelected officials, the 'will of the people' aint so.



Amid questions on legal enforcement of medical marijuana law, top state lawmaker advises to 'follow the expressed instruction of voters'

State Question 788, following the passage in 2016 of State Question 780, took another step toward decriminalizing marijuana use by reducing the criminal penalty for those without proper licensing who can cite a medical condition.

However, because neither resulted in a overhaul of state drug or paraphernalia possession laws, attorneys in Tulsa County have said jail time for marijuana possession remains a possibility until or unless the Legislature acts to clean up existing statutes.

House Majority Floor Leader Jon Echols, R-Oklahoma City, said Friday that continued aggressive prosecution of simple marijuana possession is clearly contrary to the spirit of both measures. Echols is a co-chairman of the bipartisan, bicameral group working on SQ 788 regulations.

“The citizens have now told us twice they don’t want nonviolent drug offenders going to prison,” he told the Tulsa World.

The possession provision of SQ 788 took legal effect Thursday. It mandates a $400 fine for marijuana users who have 1½ ounces or less and who do not have a patient license but provide a medical condition to authorities.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/amid-questions-on-legal-enforcement-of-medical-marijuana-law-top/article_33468ab4-eaea-51b1-82c0-3da22aa23997.html


...and yet someone has apparently figured it out:

City commission makes code changes related to marijuana
https://www.enidnews.com/news/local_news/city-commission-makes-code-changes-related-to-marijuana/article_36833d9b-2d03-57ab-8455-f5f4746af201.html

Complete ordinance:  https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/enidnews.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/5/c9/5c950c5c-8b6c-11e8-b9a1-bf987f1c6d81/5b50b5078568b.pdf.pdf

Echols is a "burner" apparently because he gets it.  It's been rumored for years that (as much as we don't like her) Gov. Failin' is a part of the same caravan. 

I'm wondering if the attorney for the health board thought she would never be caught a) taking bribes from the director of the pharmacy board or b) never thought anyone would police her own email account for self-generated threats?

The whole process has been an embarrassing enlightenment as to how misinformation and wrong-headed hyperbole continue to dominate the thought in Oklahoma politics and bureaucracy but I'm very glad to see how quickly it was remediated.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 30, 2018, 08:58:16 am
Bowing to the will of the people? Say it ain't so.


Not really - just looking for another approach to thwart the will of the people...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 01, 2018, 09:44:07 am
Latest (Health Board) draft of medical marijuana rules could be 'nearly impossible' for businesses to follow, attorney for group says.
Attorney for advocates say conflicts with statutes could prevent legal sales ... says they in reality incorporate “volumes upon volumes” of unnecessary regulations for commercial licensees.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/latest-draft-of-medical-marijuana-rules-could-be-nearly-impossible/article_585748b4-5d36-5d6b-94fc-49c03fbbab67.html




...which is why we still need to take it out of those hands and make it a part of the constitution.  We are much closer to that now:


Green The Vote announced Sunday that it has compiled enough signatures — 132,527, to be exact — for State Question 797 to be put up for vote on the Nov. 6 general election ballot. The measure would incorporate the right to medical and recreational marijuana in the Oklahoma Constitution.

"The voters of Oklahoma who overwhelmingly voted for (State Question) 788 wanted to send a message to our lawmakers that we know exactly what we’re voting for and we know what it will do for our state’s economy.”


https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/marijuana-petition-to-get-state-constitutional-question-on-november-ballot/article_53335773-fd7a-5b30-87b6-35fc020c0eae.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 01, 2018, 02:22:26 pm

...which is why we still need to take it out of those hands and make it a part of the constitution.  We are much closer to that now:


Green The Vote announced Sunday that it has compiled enough signatures — 132,527, to be exact — for State Question 797 to be put up for vote on the Nov. 6 general election ballot. The measure would incorporate the right to medical and recreational marijuana in the Oklahoma Constitution.

"The voters of Oklahoma who overwhelmingly voted for (State Question) 788 wanted to send a message to our lawmakers that we know exactly what we’re voting for and we know what it will do for our state’s economy.”


https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/marijuana-petition-to-get-state-constitutional-question-on-november-ballot/article_53335773-fd7a-5b30-87b6-35fc020c0eae.html



Strange...seems like 796 isn't quite there yet.  I wonder why?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 01, 2018, 08:50:29 pm
Escape Clause:


Deputy Mayor Michael Junk said the city would not issue any regulations or create any ordinances related to medical marijuana until the state policy is in place.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/city-working-group-exploring-local-implications-of-sq/article_f4881a8a-c77d-5da8-ad43-c47e030bb7ff.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 03, 2018, 09:26:13 am
Five- and six-figure donors to anti-788 campaign:



Arvest Bank: $25,000

BancFirst Corp.: $10,000

Chesapeake Energy Corp.: $25,000

Chickasaw Nation: $100,000

Cimarex Energy Co.: $75,000

ConocoPhillips: $50,000

Continental Resources: $100,000

Cox Communications: $25,000

Creek Real Estate (Enid): $10,000

Devon Energy Corp.: $100,000

Dolese Bros. Co. (OKC): $25,000

Enable Midstream Partners: $25,000

Forward Oklahoma City (through Greater OKC Chamber): $190,000

Gulfport Energy Corp.: $50,000

Helmerich & Payne: $15,000

IBC Bank: $20,000

Love's Travel Stops & Country Stores: $25,000

Newfield Exploration Co.: $100,000

OG&E Energy Corp.: $25,000

Oklahoma Hospital Association: $25,000

Oklahoma State Medical Association: $75,000

Phillips 66: $25,000

Robert Funk (CEO of Express Employment Professionals): $10,000

Robert Howard II (retired Mercedes-Benz dealer): $50,000

Smart Approaches to Marijuana (advocacy group in Virginia): $10,000

Tulsa's Future (through Tulsa Regional Chamber): $25,000


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/energy-firms-top-list-of-biggest-donors-to-campaign-opposing/article_9273036e-a644-570e-8595-55e21ee94c80.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 03, 2018, 10:02:53 am
Five- and six-figure donors to anti-788 campaign:



Arvest Bank: $25,000

BancFirst Corp.: $10,000

Chesapeake Energy Corp.: $25,000

Chickasaw Nation: $100,000

Cimarex Energy Co.: $75,000

ConocoPhillips: $50,000

Continental Resources: $100,000

Cox Communications: $25,000

Creek Real Estate (Enid): $10,000

Devon Energy Corp.: $100,000

Dolese Bros. Co. (OKC): $25,000

Enable Midstream Partners: $25,000

Forward Oklahoma City (through Greater OKC Chamber): $190,000

Gulfport Energy Corp.: $50,000

Helmerich & Payne: $15,000

IBC Bank: $20,000

Love's Travel Stops & Country Stores: $25,000

Newfield Exploration Co.: $100,000

OG&E Energy Corp.: $25,000

Oklahoma Hospital Association: $25,000

Oklahoma State Medical Association: $75,000

Phillips 66: $25,000

Robert Funk (CEO of Express Employment Professionals): $10,000

Robert Howard II (retired Mercedes-Benz dealer): $50,000

Smart Approaches to Marijuana (advocacy group in Virginia): $10,000

Tulsa's Future (through Tulsa Regional Chamber): $25,000


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/energy-firms-top-list-of-biggest-donors-to-campaign-opposing/article_9273036e-a644-570e-8595-55e21ee94c80.html



Good to know.  Cox is the only one of those I buy from, with just an occasional stop at Love's.  Gonna cut cable loose and it will be easy to stop going to Love's.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 03, 2018, 10:46:00 am

Good to know.  Cox is the only one of those I buy from, with just an occasional stop at Love's.  Gonna cut cable loose and it will be easy to stop going to Love's.


The Cox opposition to medical marijuana is a bit of a suprise because their top TV station in this market came out in favor of meducal marijuana.
http://www.fox23.com/videos/news/fox-rant-the-case-for-medical-marijuana/vCM4X8/

Its amazing how many of these large corporations bankrolled the opposition because they were apparently led to believe it would legalize stoned employees, and didnt bother reading the measure to discover otherwise.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 04, 2018, 06:18:09 pm

Oklahoma's zero-tolerance DUI metabolite law is illegitimate, not targeting drunks so much as sinners.
The law is based on the premise that since marijuana was illegal, any finding of the drug (no matter how old or minuscule, might as well be considered "impairment" even though a person might not actually be impaired.

There are a lot of "gaps" the legislature needs to fill with Medical Marijuana lawmaking
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/what-gaps-will-the-legislature-need-to-fill-in-medical/article_7c268d5d-e850-59ed-8ec1-448fed51a5ec.html
but our sham DUI law isnt even on the list to be considered.

Taking into account all the ramifications (revenue, public safety fears), calling a special session of the legislature isnt that outrageous a suggestion when you consider the earliest look at the issues wouldnt be until next February.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: MostSeriousness on August 07, 2018, 08:25:05 am
Well then...

Green the Vote fabricated signatures (for presumably both the recreational petition and the 'hands off the medical SQ' petition), admitted to it last night.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 07, 2018, 08:30:21 am
Well then...

Green the Vote fabricated signatures (for presumably both the recreational petition and the 'hands off the medical SQ' petition), admitted to it last night.

Source?

EDIT:  NM, found a source.  Newon6 in their headlines.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 07, 2018, 09:40:58 am
Well then...

Green the Vote fabricated signatures (for presumably both the recreational petition and the 'hands off the medical SQ' petition), admitted to it last night.



That is insane...what possible motivation could there be for that other than someone inside actually trying to shoot it down...  Geez...

Or they were partying just a little bit too early in the process!!


Disappointing...now there is gonna be a much bigger mountain to climb to start over again!!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 07, 2018, 10:11:00 am
Well then...

Green the Vote fabricated signatures (for presumably both the recreational petition and the 'hands off the medical SQ' petition), admitted to it last night.

No they did not "fabricate signatures."  
One of the board inflated the count of signatures to appear higher, with the intent of motivating voters.
There's a big difference between exaggerating the number of signatures for PR and actually forging signatures.
Had someone fabricated signatures they would have been looking at some time behind bars, but that apparently wasnt the case.

Its a bad tactic, as the actual numbers dont always catch up to the forecast.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/i-have-let-you-down-green-the-vote-leaders-inflated/article_7f96071a-03a2-5bf7-ad1b-5d14ffe079a6.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on August 07, 2018, 10:58:50 am
No they did not "fabricate signatures."  
One of the board inflated the count of signatures to appear higher, with the intent of motivating voters.
There's a big difference between exaggerating the number of signatures for PR and actually forging signatures.
Had someone fabricated signatures they would have been looking at some time behind bars, but that apparently wasnt the case.

Its a bad tactic, as the actual numbers dont always catch up to the forecast.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/i-have-let-you-down-green-the-vote-leaders-inflated/article_7f96071a-03a2-5bf7-ad1b-5d14ffe079a6.html

They may not have fabricated actual signatures on a petition, but saying you have ~60,000 more signatures than you actually have is definitely a fabrication.  If they were looking to build trust and credibility with the public, this is not the way to do it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 07, 2018, 11:18:02 am
They may not have fabricated actual signatures on a petition, but saying you have ~60,000 more signatures than you actually have is definitely a fabrication.  If they were looking to build trust and credibility with the public, this is not the way to do it.


you mean like the same way that the medical commission used bribes and the like to get their way in the drafting of the rules for MM?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 07, 2018, 12:35:44 pm
They may not have fabricated actual signatures on a petition, but saying you have ~60,000 more signatures than you actually have is definitely a fabrication.  If they were looking to build trust and credibility with the public, this is not the way to do it.



Not a fabrication - it was a flat out lie!

Very disappointing they seemed to think lying would somehow 'help' the cause - believers would be more likely to respond/mobilize if they saw it falling short.  I thought it was doing well, so didn't get petitions to have signed.  If I had known the truth, I would have gotten some blank sheets and hit up everyone I know - it is a pain to search out the locations and travel there...

Shame on me!   I didn't go get some and do that anyway...!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on August 07, 2018, 02:35:19 pm
you mean like the same way that the medical commission used bribes and the like to get their way in the drafting of the rules for MM?

Yes, lying about the number of signatures or being unable to count names with a 50% accuracy will cause people not to trust you in the same way ignoring the clear language of the initiative and using bribes to change the rules will cause people not to trust you.  It will be interesting to see if the legislative group that has had Green the Vote involved in the discussion of implementing medical marijuana drops them. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on August 07, 2018, 02:38:07 pm

Not a fabrication - it was a flat out lie!

Very disappointing they seemed to think lying would somehow 'help' the cause - believers would be more likely to respond/mobilize if they saw it falling short.  I thought it was doing well, so didn't get petitions to have signed.  If I had known the truth, I would have gotten some blank sheets and hit up everyone I know - it is a pain to search out the locations and travel there...

Shame on me!   I didn't go get some and do that anyway...!

It was an odd strategy that does not appear to be well thought out.  Maybe Jeff Spicoli was heading up the operation.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 07, 2018, 04:03:33 pm
It was an odd strategy that does not appear to be well thought out.  Maybe Jeff Spicoli was heading up the operation.



Stupid.  I think Spicoli...no, I know Spicoli was smarter than that...

I think it will be a very sad setback to the effort to help people, in this state, with their medical problems.


But really, all we need is some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and we will be fine...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 07, 2018, 04:51:33 pm
Yes, lying about the number of signatures or being unable to count names with a 50% accuracy will cause people not to trust you in the same way ignoring the clear language of the initiative and using bribes to change the rules will cause people not to trust you.  It will be interesting to see if the legislative group that has had Green the Vote involved in the discussion of implementing medical marijuana drops them. 

Bribery seems a few notches higher than foolish hubris.

I would think saying you have enough signatures near the end of the petition drive would cost you the signatures of the people who procrastinated.  It reminds me a bit of Faux News declaring Mary Failin winning the governor's race with only one percent of the polls (which were still open) reporting.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 08, 2018, 06:08:58 pm

OKLAHOMA CITY — The interim state health commissioner told a group of lawmakers Wednesday that a special legislative session is the fastest option to ensure State Question 788 goes into effect in a manner that fully takes public health concerns into consideration.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/special-session-may-be-fastest-option-to-implement-medical-marijuana/article_5e1925aa-633a-5207-a89f-0c175bf773c3.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 15, 2018, 09:39:31 pm
Reefer Madness --
'Conflict and confusion': Law enforcement addresses panel about medical marijuana concerns

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/conflict-and-confusion-law-enforcement-addresses-panel-about-medical-marijuana/article_6eccefc2-8e03-5f2d-a445-5a953eb0c7fd.html

"SQ 788 should have listed qualifying medical conditions because until lawmakers give guidance, law enforcement will likely have to take citizens’ claims about them at face value."

In a nutshell, law enforcement in Oklahoma regards the recognition of voter-approved Medical Marijuana as optional.






TPD Cites Home Growing as Main Medical Marijuana Concern

Tulsa Police have specific concerns about medical marijuana, chief among them home-growing regulations.

Deputy Chief Jonathan Brooks said loosely regulated home growing is the biggest contributor to gray- and black-market marijuana.
"What it has allowed is organized crime and drug traffickers to avoid the statutory laws that they already have in place or to circumvent those. It results in the purchasing and renting of houses in neighborhoods and using those homes for grow facilities," Brooks said.
Brooks said in those tight regulations, TPD would like to see medical marijuana home-growing limited to indoors.

When it comes to commercial operations, TPD is looking for limits on who may work in them. Brooks said people with certain felonies should not be allowed in the industry, with those including violent crimes and trafficking convictions.
"In addition to that, any type of gang-related offense that there’s a felony conviction with a gang affiliation of some type," Brooks said.

TPD is also anticipating some problems when medical marijuana dispensaries start operating in the city. Brooks said other cities have seen an increase in crime around dispensaries, such as burglaries and robberies involving the business and its customers.
"What we want is a patient that has a need under doctor’s care, we want them to be able to go and get that, not become a victim of a crime," Brooks said.

TPD also favors some form of prohibition on officers holding patient cards, and Brooks said urban police departments have some different concerns than rural law enforcement agencies when it comes to medical marijuana.

http://www.publicradiotulsa.org/post/tpd-cites-home-growing-main-medical-marijuana-concern


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 22, 2018, 11:03:16 am
City officials said they will not put any additional rules to their city rules that are not already laid out in State Question 788.

https://www.fox23.com/news/broken-arrow-city-councilors-consider-new-medical-marijuana-ordinance/817857576


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 28, 2018, 09:50:25 am
Muskogee backs off on stricter medical marijuana ordinances. What have other cities done to address SQ 788?
“The moral question of whether marijuana has a medicinal purpose or is good or bad was decided,” Muskogee City Attorney Roy Tucker said after Monday’s council meeting. “It was not up to us to make that decision. It was already made. What we needed to do was craft regulations that we would have for any other business, and so that’s what we did.”


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/muskogee-backs-off-on-stricter-medical-marijuana-ordinances-what-have/article_0e102458-ce06-5ae2-bb9e-9d5a28ba0194.html

But will Tulsa cave in to the unions?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 28, 2018, 03:51:14 pm
Muskogee backs off on stricter medical marijuana ordinances. What have other cities done to address SQ 788?
“The moral question of whether marijuana has a medicinal purpose or is good or bad was decided,” Muskogee City Attorney Roy Tucker said after Monday’s council meeting. “It was not up to us to make that decision. It was already made. What we needed to do was craft regulations that we would have for any other business, and so that’s what we did.”


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/muskogee-backs-off-on-stricter-medical-marijuana-ordinances-what-have/article_0e102458-ce06-5ae2-bb9e-9d5a28ba0194.html

But will Tulsa cave in to the unions?


Still shows the stupid - it is NOT a 'moral' question of medicinal purpose, it is a scientific question.  And yes, THAT has been decided - there are many good medicinal purposes.

And plants can't be moral or immoral - they are plants.  And if these people really understood and believed what they profess to believe from their particular version of the Bible, they would know that these are all God's Creation with no moral attachment beyond man's warped and distorted view of the world.  Another example; there are actually people out there who believe dandelions and henbit are bad.!!   Stupid humans.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 30, 2018, 10:53:12 pm

White House formed secret committee to combat public support of marijuana
https://fox13now.com/2018/08/30/report-white-house-formed-secret-committee-to-combat-public-support-of-marijuana/

Trump’s marijuana task force ordered to ignore data that shows positive impacts
https://www.salon.com/2018/08/29/trumps-marijuana-task-force-ordered-to-ignore-data-that-shows-positive-impacts-report/

Inside The Trump Administration’s Secret War On Weed

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/dominicholden/trump-secret-committee-anti-marijuana


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 30, 2018, 10:55:01 pm
Still shows the stupid - it is NOT a 'moral' question of medicinal purpose, it is a scientific question.  And yes, THAT has been decided - there are many good medicinal purposes.


As physicians again push for unpopular medical marijuana restrictions, one lawmaker 'a little frustrated'

Oklahoma Pharmacy Association leader Debra Billingsley urged the working group to use its power to mandate pharmacists work in dispensaries. She said an undercover investigation in Colorado found dispensary workers with no medical training were recommending pregnant women use marijuana for relief from morning sickness.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/as-physicians-again-push-for-unpopular-medical-marijuana-restrictions-one/article_1a508290-ff57-5878-8a26-818ddcf94c4b.html


The Oklahoma law, however, puts that decision in the hands of Doctors, so why is that an issue, and why are the groups implicated in alleged bribery still even in the game?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 04, 2018, 11:58:54 pm
In Broken Arrow you might be able to buy opioids from a drug store within 1,000 feet of a school, but not medical marijuana.
How many pharmaceuticals are treated like 3.2 beer in this state?

https://www.fox23.com/news/broken-arrow-works-on-medical-marijuana-zoning-plan/827284308


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 06, 2018, 09:12:11 pm
In Broken Arrow you might be able to buy opioids from a drug store within 1,000 feet of a school, but not medical marijuana.
How many pharmaceuticals are treated like 3.2 beer in this state?

https://www.fox23.com/news/broken-arrow-works-on-medical-marijuana-zoning-plan/827284308


I buy mine literally across the street from one and about 800 ft from another.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 10, 2018, 10:50:59 pm
I buy mine literally across the street from one and about 800 ft from another.


Senate Bill Would Legalize Medical Marijuana For Military Veterans

https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2018/09/05/senate-bill-legalizes-medical-marijuana-for-military-veterans/#5df4033472a5



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 14, 2018, 02:27:19 pm

House Democrats want special session on Oklahoma's medical marijuana

https://newsok.com/article/5608219/house-democrats-want-special-session-on-oklahomas-medical-marijuana


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 17, 2018, 04:26:07 pm

Coke use leads to marijuana?

https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/17/news/companies/coca-cola-cannabis/index.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 17, 2018, 06:00:54 pm
Coke use leads to marijuana?

https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/17/news/companies/coca-cola-cannabis/index.html




Yummmm!!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on September 18, 2018, 08:10:27 am
Coke use leads to marijuana?

https://money.cnn.com/2018/09/17/news/companies/coca-cola-cannabis/index.html

My thought was that the people who make Cheetos, Funyuns, pretzels, and potato chips should start offering combo packs.  Why wait for the munchies to hit?  Just buy it up front and be ready...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 19, 2018, 11:14:07 am
B.A. just got their taxpayers sued.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/court-filing-seeks-to-halt-broken-arrow-s-medical-marijuana/article_0063e9f2-e8b7-5bd3-8caa-e3cdc83e4109.html

Broken Arrow City Council approves $2,500 annual fee for medical marijuana businesses; lawsuit promised
Local attorney threatens lawsuit, claiming ‘governmental overreach’

The new rules include levying a $2,500 annual permit fee for commercial licensees, classifying dispensaries similarly to alcohol-related establishments.

“This is not recreational cannabis. This isn’t for fun.”
“This is for patients who need it, and what they’re doing by restricting these things is they’re taking patients’ medicine away from them.”


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/broken-arrow-city-council-approves-annual-fee-for-medical-marijuana/article_27db61cb-ca3f-5940-9b48-6239b22aed22.html


Is Walgreens classified as an alcohol-related establishment?
Does CVS pay a $2.5K annual fee to sell hydrocodone?  

Its not the city council's job to make moral judgements about medicine.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 19, 2018, 02:12:28 pm
B.A. just got their taxpayers sued.

Broken Arrow City Council approves $2,500 annual fee for medical marijuana businesses; lawsuit promised
Local attorney threatens lawsuit, claiming ‘governmental overreach’

The new rules include levying a $2,500 annual permit fee for commercial licensees, classifying dispensaries similarly to alcohol-related establishments.

“This is not recreational cannabis. This isn’t for fun.”
“This is for patients who need it, and what they’re doing by restricting these things is they’re taking patients’ medicine away from them.”


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/broken-arrow-city-council-approves-annual-fee-for-medical-marijuana/article_27db61cb-ca3f-5940-9b48-6239b22aed22.html


Is Walgreens classified as an alcohol-related establishment?
Does CVS pay a $2.5K annual fee to sell hydrocodone?  

Its not the city council's job to make moral judgements about medicine.


People keep wanting to push us towards a theocracy - BA is about as close as can be found nearby thanks to the two big cults in town, and this is what happens.  First Baptist and Rhema.

Expediency for the goal at hand over rule of law every time.






Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 19, 2018, 10:00:12 pm

People keep wanting to push us towards a theocracy - BA is about as close as can be found nearby thanks to the two big cults in town, and this is what happens.  First Baptist and Rhema.





The Canadian cannabis producer Tilray became the first marijuana company to go public on the Nasdaq in July. Its initial share price: $17. As of a month ago, its price had about doubled, to around $35. But in recent days, Tilray’s stock has skyrocketed well past $200. The company is now worth more than $20 billion — more than American Airlines, Expedia, and pharmaceutical company Mylan.

https://www.vox.com/business-and-finance/2018/9/19/17879830/tilray-stock-cannabis-peter-thiel-short-squeeze





Oh but hey, lets worry about how close they are to a school.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/pro-medical-marijuana-attorney-calls-some-proposed-tulsa-zoning-regulations/article_291e4d15-6311-5fae-9bc9-fce0366750b8.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 23, 2018, 10:17:16 am
California judge rules 5-year-old can take cannabis-based drug to school
https://www.pressdemocrat.com/news/8765336-181/judge-rules-santa-rosa-girl


Meanwhile on the other end of the scale:


Oklahoma schools getting conflicting advice about impact of medical marijuana on their policies
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/oklahoma-schools-getting-conflicting-advice-about-impact-of-medical-marijuana/article_55d17210-9793-5a1e-a2c9-0db9c0688b53.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 27, 2018, 11:11:27 am
I'm against medical MJ or R&R MJ, it'll be interesting to  see how much traffic deaths go up under medical MJ from the current rate.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 28, 2018, 08:56:03 am
I'm against medical MJ or R&R MJ, it'll be interesting to  see how much traffic deaths go up under medical MJ from the current rate.

Near as anyone can tell, it's not gone up in New Mexico since they passed MMJ.  Studies actually showed a decrease in traffic fatalities in some states after MMJ was enacted.  Fatalities trended downward after passage in 2007 and have bumped up and down since then with apparently no correlation to MMJ.  In fact, no one is quite sure why the rates have bumped around as much as they have.

https://ibis.health.state.nm.us/indicator/complete_profile/InjuryMVCDeath.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-marijuana-traffic-death/after-states-legalized-medical-marijuana-traffic-deaths-fell-idUSKBN14H1LQ


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on September 28, 2018, 09:00:22 am
Near as anyone can tell, it's not gone up in New Mexico since they passed MMJ.  Studies actually showed a decrease in traffic fatalities in some states after MMJ was enacted.  Fatalities trended downward after passage in 2007 and have bumped up and down since then with apparently no correlation to MMJ.  In fact, no one is quite sure why the rates have bumped around as much as they have.

https://ibis.health.state.nm.us/indicator/complete_profile/InjuryMVCDeath.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-marijuana-traffic-death/after-states-legalized-medical-marijuana-traffic-deaths-fell-idUSKBN14H1LQ

Them blasted facts.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 28, 2018, 10:36:22 am
I'm against medical MJ or R&R MJ, it'll be interesting to  see how much traffic deaths go up under medical MJ from the current rate.

They let you out?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 28, 2018, 01:23:51 pm
I'm against medical MJ or R&R MJ, it'll be interesting to  see how much traffic deaths go up under medical MJ from the current rate.


Well look whose back - and STILL with the most un-deducated, illogical, uninformed comments of anyone on the board!!   Well, except for Bread-for-Brains...


In answer to that non-question, it has already been "seen" in several states.  Asked and answered.  They don't go up at all.  Which you would have known if you ever looked anywhere other than Fake Fox News.  But that would mean there would be a need to understand words with more than 2 syllables...

In fact, deaths from hard drug overdose also goes down in those states.  Another fact that the Fake Fox News world will refuse to understand...they like their "Conway Alternative Facts" too much - otherwise known as lies!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 28, 2018, 01:26:20 pm
I'm against medical MJ or R&R MJ, it'll be interesting to  see how much traffic deaths go up under medical MJ from the current rate.


I also posted this elsewhere, in the Trump Zone...but for you and Bread-for-Brains, I will make this special small thread creep...


GOP used to have a VERY different meaning...!! Now it stands for "Groping Old Perverts".



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 29, 2018, 10:57:30 am
Studies actually showed a decrease in traffic fatalities in some states after MMJ was enacted.  Fatalities trended downward after passage in 2007 and have bumped up and down since then with apparently no correlation to MMJ.  In fact, no one is quite sure why the rates have bumped around as much as they have.

https://ibis.health.state.nm.us/indicator/complete_profile/InjuryMVCDeath.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-marijuana-traffic-death/after-states-legalized-medical-marijuana-traffic-deaths-fell-idUSKBN14H1LQ




Judge grants injunction blocking Broken Arrow's medical marijuana ordinances

"While we respect the recent vote of the people on SQ 788, we believe all Oklahoma cities have the authority to have common-sense rules and regulations in place for medical marijuana businesses in their communities.”


...which in Broken Arrow meant treating medicine like liquor, following the lead of the unions who want to follow Arkansas' corrupt model, where medical marijuana was approved by voters in 2016 but have yet to begin receiving prescriptions due to ongoing legal delays.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/judge-grants-injunction-blocking-broken-arrow-s-medical-marijuana-ordinances/article_319bdf72-65f9-5eea-af20-2b3c6ddcc1b1.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 30, 2018, 07:36:42 pm
Despite being told they couldn’t legally ban smokable marijuana sales or require pharmacists in dispensaries, at least two Board of Health members sought outside help on crafting language so they could adopt the changes anyway.

The emails show multiple officials, including two people in Gov. Mary Fallin’s cabinet and a senior deputy attorney general, were at least aware of talks on the rules ahead of the meeting.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/board-members-circumvented-health-department-attorney-sought-outside-help-to/article_01f2c4f0-cf27-5630-b461-921900165705.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 03, 2018, 11:38:10 am
Legal marijuana patient wins 'very significant case' against employer who rescinded job offer

U.S. District Judge Jeffrey Meyer said the federal Drug Free Workplace Act, which many employers including federal contractors rely on for policies on drug testing, does not actually require drug testing and does not prohibit federal contractors from employing people who use medical marijuana outside the workplace in accordance with state law.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/legal-marijuana-patient-wins-very-significant-case-against-employer-who/article_7dbb90ff-0315-53ca-936b-a225dd3ef72b.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 17, 2018, 04:00:04 pm
District attorney to drop possession charge against licensed medical marijuana patient after traffic stop

The Adair County District Attorney’s Office announced its intent Wednesday to dismiss a case against a licensed medical marijuana patient who was charged with possession due to apparent confusion over which drug crime statute should apply.

Regina Gist, 49, of Sallisaw, received a citation from an Adair County sheriff’s deputy for possession of marijuana after being pulled over Sept. 25 for an alleged traffic violation.
But upon evaluating the case himself, District 27 DA Jack Thorp said he plans to toss the charge because all available evidence indicates Gist honestly believed she was following the law on possession for medical purposes in accordance with State Question 788.

The citation doesn’t say which statute the deputy accused Gist of violating.

When asked about which law was at issue, Thorp pointed the Tulsa World to the drug possession statute last amended after voters approved State Question 780.
That initiative, which took effect last summer, made simple drug possession a misdemeanor. SQ 788, which went into effect this summer, prevents prosecution of licensed medical marijuana patients for either possession of the substance itself or for having devices used for consumption.

“So we will dismiss the case, and we’re going to get together with our law enforcement partners and we’re going to make sure that we’re doing the right thing.”

Reached Wednesday, Gist referred requests for comment to her attorney, Collin Rockett. After her Tuesday court appearance, she told KWTV she admitted having marijuana to treat chronic pain.

She said the deputy told her that possession was illegal because he didn’t know of any dispensaries in operation.

“The officer learned she had a medical marijuana card (during the stop), and the officer related to us that he asked her where she got it. And she said she 'bought it from her drug dealer'," Thorp said.
Rockett on Wednesday contested the deputy’s version of events, saying Gist, a passenger in the vehicle, declined to disclose where she obtained the marijuana despite being asked repeatedly.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/district-attorney-to-drop-possession-charge-against-licensed-medical-marijuana/article_0bd130d6-eb65-5754-bf55-e0bc3df112b4.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 31, 2018, 02:07:12 pm
I'm against medical MJ or R&R MJ, it'll be interesting to  see how much traffic deaths go up under medical MJ from the current rate.

You like Oklahoma being #1 in the world in incarceration huh? Wouldn't be possible if it weren't for the wildly and absolutely successful "war on drugs"! No more cartels and no more drug demand! MAGIC! Thank you for your support of law enforcement!

Now please pay up your $1,500+ share per year to pay for room board and medical care of the inmates.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TulsaGoldenHurriCAN on October 31, 2018, 02:28:30 pm
I like how some people believe making something illegal reduces the use of it despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. And then people in the same exact political group argue "gun free zones" are not free of guns or gun crime. So which is it?

Those same people often claim to want to reduce the government, yet want to bolster "law and order" and increase military spending. They often are for corporate welfare (tax breaks for oil and gas, corn/wheat subsidies and other large corporations).

Colorado and California legalized MMJ and recreational and their societies have safer roads (by accident/fatality rates) and far lower prison and crime rates, despite a much lower literacy rate in California and much more dangerous roads in those states through the
 mountains (https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/state-by-state-overview). A study in Colorado showed DUIs actually decreased after legalization and usage went down also.

MMJ or legalization is a chance to show who is truly pro-free market and pro-business. Anyone against it would need to be for making all alcohol illegal and banning all opioids, regardless of health benefits (which is really lacking in most cases and is severely over-prescribed). If you believe all mind-altering substances should be illegal, I can understand, but at least be consistent. Otherwise your position is weak and seems ill informed.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 31, 2018, 04:56:35 pm

Otherwise your position is weak and seems ill informed.



He and Breadburner are the poster children for weak minded and ill informed.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 05, 2018, 09:38:48 am
I like how some people believe making something illegal reduces the use of it despite mountains of evidence to the contrary. And then people in the same exact political group argue "gun free zones" are not free of guns or gun crime. So which is it?

Those same people often claim to want to reduce the government, yet want to bolster "law and order" and increase military spending. They often are for corporate welfare (tax breaks for oil and gas, corn/wheat subsidies and other large corporations).

Colorado and California legalized MMJ and recreational and their societies have safer roads (by accident/fatality rates) and far lower prison and crime rates, despite a much lower literacy rate in California and much more dangerous roads in those states through the
 mountains (https://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/state-by-state-overview). A study in Colorado showed DUIs actually decreased after legalization and usage went down also.

MMJ or legalization is a chance to show who is truly pro-free market and pro-business. Anyone against it would need to be for making all alcohol illegal and banning all opioids, regardless of health benefits (which is really lacking in most cases and is severely over-prescribed). If you believe all mind-altering substances should be illegal, I can understand, but at least be consistent. Otherwise your position is weak and seems ill informed.

"I smell marijuana so now I dont have to respect your civil rights" is a tough temptation to resist. 
That, and the opioid industry who are content with the hypocrisy that puts billions of dollars in their pockets continue to peddle their influence to any politician with an outstretched hand. 

Some good news for North Tulsa for a change... a chance to escape from the hard drugs:

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/often-north-tulsa-is-underserved-medical-marijuana-patients-in-area/article_14ec1edb-8383-507e-b764-2f0a6e58cc52.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 07, 2018, 09:37:19 am
Voters Legalize Marijuana in Michigan, Missouri and Utah
Missouri became the 32nd state to legalize medical marijuana Tuesday, with voters passing an amendment to the state constitution.

The measure, called Amendment 2 on the ballot, will change the state constitution to allow doctors to prescribe cannabis for a slate of 10 medical conditions. Sales will be subject to a 4 percent state tax, with proceeds going to fund services for military veterans. It’s expected to generate about $24 million a year.

Amendment 2 was the broadest of the three legalization efforts on the ballot. It was the only one that allowed people who qualify for medical marijuana to grow their own (up to six flowering plants).

Patients will need a note from their physician certifying that they have a medical condition that qualifies them for marijuana use. Amendment 2 includes some specific conditions like cancer, epilepsy and glaucoma, but also says that any terminal illness qualifies, as does “any other chronic, debilitating or other medical condition,” for which a doctor recommends marijuana.

That makes doctors the gatekeepers to legal marijuana in Missouri, which is a role most of the state’s major physician groups don’t relish.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2018-11-07/voters-legalize-marijuana-in-michigan-missouri-and-utah



Tulsa Medical Marijuana Dispensary Runs Out Of Stock On First Day
http://www.newson6.com/story/39421327/booming-sales-run-tulsa-med-marijuana-dispensary-out-of-stock-on-first-day


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 08, 2018, 01:04:15 pm
City Council postpones vote on medical marijuana regulations
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/city-council-postpones-vote-on-medical-marijuana-regulations/article_fbc27e0e-f6af-56ca-8e76-a34107712635.html
“We are just asking legal to re-evaluate a couple of things,” said Councilor Blake Ewing.

Only dispensaries would be subject to spacing requirements. According to the proposed ordinance, they could not be within 1,000 feet of each other.



This should have been a no-brainer:  Just use the same spacing requirements that CVS and Walgreens are subject to.



All medical marijuana facilities must have a ventilation system that prevents odors from being detectable outside the property on which the business is operating.

If we cant even have an enforced ordinance that blocks intrusive lighting from trespassing onto adjacent properties, how can we expect to make that work with smells?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 11, 2018, 01:03:47 pm
City Council postpones vote on medical marijuana regulations
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/city-council-postpones-vote-on-medical-marijuana-regulations/article_fbc27e0e-f6af-56ca-8e76-a34107712635.html
“We are just asking legal to re-evaluate a couple of things,” said Councilor Blake Ewing.

Only dispensaries would be subject to spacing requirements. According to the proposed ordinance, they could not be within 1,000 feet of each other.



This should have been a no-brainer:  Just use the same spacing requirements that CVS and Walgreens are subject to.



All medical marijuana facilities must have a ventilation system that prevents odors from being detectable outside the property on which the business is operating.

If we cant even have an enforced ordinance that blocks intrusive lighting from trespassing onto adjacent properties, how can we expect to make that work with smells?

Uh, what odor is it they are worried about?  There's no special smell in or around dispensaries in Colorado.

They aren't allowing patients to toke up in dispensaries in Oklahoma are they?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 11, 2018, 01:40:28 pm

Uh, what odor is it they are worried about?  There's no special smell in or around dispensaries in Colorado.



Maybe its the smell you get when prosecutors tell the voters they didnt know what they were doing when they voted on criminal justice reform, then insist that they cant honor the voters wishes on medical marijuana because of those very same criminal justice reforms... and then continue to disregard the criminal justice reforms.

That smell.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 12, 2018, 09:29:29 am

Maybe its the smell you get when prosecutors tell the voters they didnt know what they were doing when they voted on criminal justice reform, then insist that they cant honor the voters wishes on medical marijuana because of those very same criminal justice reforms... and then continue to disregard the criminal justice reforms.

That smell.


Just to be crystal clear, it's the smell of the Hijacked Republican Party.   But you already know that...




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 26, 2018, 10:46:10 am
He's right, we shouldn't be keeping the opium manufacturing industry in Tulsa a secret.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-secrecy-special-treatment-no-way-to-launch/article_ee79be74-ccfd-501d-be8b-47244da4dd73.html


/s


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 28, 2018, 11:57:32 pm
Tulsa's medical marijuana businesses now know the local regulations
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/tulsa-s-medical-marijuana-businesses-now-know-the-local-regulations/article_0cb17a68-58ed-5bf9-aac7-e6a2df979414.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 10, 2018, 10:23:42 am


Authorities investigating bribery allegations related to medical marijuana rules could also determine the validity of a new claim that the Oklahoma Board of Pharmacy and its former director tampered with evidence in efforts to conceal misconduct.

Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation Special Agent Steve Tanner told the Tulsa World the agency plans to submit information this month to the Oklahoma County District Attorney’s Office about whether Chelsea Church tried to bribe attorney Julie Ezell with a job in exchange for the health board’s approval of a rule requiring pharmacists in medical marijuana dispensaries. District Attorney David Prater will determine whether Church will face criminal charges.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/osbi-evaluates-whether-fired-pharmacy-board-leader-bribed-attorney-deleted/article_b2a2df8d-078c-50fd-ac2c-de4acb9074fc.html





Oklahomans for Health, the group that helped author and get State Question 788 passed by voters, is calling on the Attorney General's Office to investigate alleged collusion that preceded a controversy earlier this summer over the state's medical marijuana rules.

"State and government officials acted in capacities to circumvent and prevent passage and implementation of SQ788," says a letter to AG Mike Hunter from the group's board, headed by Chip Paul. The group is requesting public records from the various agencies involved in crafting emergency rules to launch the state's medical marijuana program.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/update-group-that-authored-sq-calls-ag-to-investigate-flap/article_b2a2df8d-078c-50fd-ac2c-de4acb9074fc.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 11, 2018, 02:27:32 pm


Medical marijuana ordinances prompt 5 lawsuits: How are cities across Oklahoma regulating businesses and patients?

Smaller municipalities across the state have taken a hardline approach and outright banned most commercial marijuana operations within their cities. Almost a dozen cities' ordinances appear to be crafted from the same boilerplate language.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/photovideo/slideshows/medical-marijuana-ordinances-prompt-lawsuits-how-are-cities-across-oklahoma/collection_b3e65b2c-cbeb-11e8-b5c8-1356a0c4b59f.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 13, 2018, 12:38:58 am

Medical marijuana ordinances prompt 5 lawsuits: How are cities across Oklahoma regulating businesses and patients?

Smaller municipalities across the state have taken a hardline approach and outright banned most commercial marijuana operations within their cities. Almost a dozen cities' ordinances appear to be crafted from the same boilerplate language.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/photovideo/slideshows/medical-marijuana-ordinances-prompt-lawsuits-how-are-cities-across-oklahoma/collection_b3e65b2c-cbeb-11e8-b5c8-1356a0c4b59f.html

Word around the campfire is it is fairly well-assured that recreational MJ will become a reality in New Mexico this next legislative session. I Friends of mine will be thrilled if it comes to pass.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on December 13, 2018, 10:59:10 am
Word around the campfire is it is fairly well-assured that recreational MJ will become a reality in New Mexico this next legislative session. I Friends of mine will be thrilled if it comes to pass.

;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 13, 2018, 09:03:00 pm
Word around the campfire is it is fairly well-assured that recreational MJ will become a reality in New Mexico this next legislative session. I Friends of mine will be thrilled if it comes to pass.


Congress just voted to legalize hemp
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/12/18136408/congress-hemp-marijuana-legalization-farm-bill


Medical marijuana user, 78, evicted from subsidized housing
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/usworld/medical-marijuana-user-evicted-from-subsidized-housing/article_bb3ee4f5-d81c-510e-be5e-40a9ea4e1a9e.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 17, 2018, 10:45:28 pm
Taking a bite out of "stop and frisk"

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo just made marijuana legalization a top priority
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/12/17/18144891/new-york-governor-andrew-cuomo-marijuana-legalization




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 22, 2018, 12:59:47 pm
'Way over black market': Medical marijuana prices cause some sticker shock as question of taxes still looms

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/way-over-black-market-medical-marijuana-prices-cause-some-sticker/article_29224c38-b228-57ef-b6a0-9be85d8bfd6a.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 23, 2018, 06:09:57 pm

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/oklahoma-quickly-medical-marijuana-hotbed-59974232


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 31, 2018, 11:20:53 am
The first licensed patient to be arrested for simple possession, Regina Gist, was charged in Adair County after a traffic stop in which she was a passenger. But District Attorney Jack Thorp dropped the charge despite the likelihood that Gist acquired the cannabis in an illegal purchase not in a licensed dispensary. Patients celebrated the DA’s decision as an indication that even if local law enforcement officers continue to treat all marijuana users as criminals, SQ 788 will protect law-abiding patients from prosecution.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/marijuana/district-attorney-to-drop-possession-charge-against-licensed-medical-marijuana/article_0bd130d6-eb65-5754-bf55-e0bc3df112b4.html


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/medical-marijuana-has-been-legal-in-oklahoma-since-july-what/article_9138d60a-8801-5129-b190-2628d71caa46.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 03, 2019, 12:36:01 pm
I had one pull me over coming back from Texas around midnight.   "tag light out"    Looking back on it, I never fixed the tag light and haven't been pulled over since (2-3 years ago.)

Apparently a couple of 40 somethings with 3 kids in the car wasn't really who he was looking for either.

That being said, it is a boring, lonely stretch of road...  Probably hard to reach their required number of contacts (we don't use quotas anymore) without some randoms pulled over.



Prosecutors dropped charges against three people arrested in February on the Indian Nation Turnpike in Pittsburg County while traveling to a cannabis event in Tulsa.

Regina Nelson and Michael Browning were scheduled to speak in Tulsa to advocate for State Question 788 and cannabis education. Nelson’s adult son, Bryan Laufenberg, was also in the car and was arrested.

Nelson has claimed it was a targeted traffic stop by the Oklahoma Highway Patrol because of the car’s Colorado license plate.

Nelson’s attorney, Brecken Wagner, told the Tulsa World in February that the trooper’s version of Nelson’s traffic violation was that she did not use a turn signal at least 100 feet before entering the ramp, an offense he said he had never seen in his career as a defense attorney.

"I think the state in considering the evidence and the motions we were about to file realized we were traveling as patients and not as criminals,” Nelson said. “I think that’s a huge recognition by the state of Oklahoma and the district attorney.”


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/marijuana-possession-charges-dropped-against-group-arrested-during-traffic-stop/article_96af1640-15e3-598f-a469-f5267759aed4.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 09, 2019, 10:16:43 pm
Authorities trying to determine if semi pulled over in Pawhuska contains marijuana or hemp
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/authorities-trying-to-determine-if-semi-pulled-over-in-pawhuska/article_17315230-389a-5816-b05c-6ac1b8e4f2f7.html



PAWHUSKA, Oklahoma - Pawhuska Police take four men into custody, accused of transporting thousands of pounds of what officers believe is marijuana.

The attorney for two of the men told News On 6 they'd been charged with aggravated trafficking. Pawhuska Police pulled the semi-truck over early Wednesday morning for running a red light, but officers quickly noticed something else.
"You could smell the strong odor of marijuana," Pawhuska Assistant Police Chief Alton Horne said.

Police said two men were inside the truck and two men were inside an escort mini-van as security. The men showed officers a bill that detailed their cargo as industrial hemp.
"It was just a simple bill," Chief Rex Wikel said. "Anybody could generate it on a computer."

The bill stated the men were transporting 18,000 pounds of hemp from Kentucky to Colorado, but police said something felt wrong.
"It just didn't seem right," Horne said. "You've got that gut instinct like, there's something going on here."

Officers said the product field-tested positive for marijuana, so they called in backup, including the DEA.
Wickle said the four men are in police custody while multiple agencies investigate including Pawhuska Police, the Osage County Sheriff’s Office, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol, the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and the Drug Enforcement Administration.

Law enforcement said the recent legalization of medicinal marijuana makes things more complicated.
"It's a large gray area with everybody right now," Osage County Sheriff Eddie Virden said. "What's a legal load of marijuana, and what's an illegal load?"

The Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics said to transport marijuana legally, you have to have an Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Transport License. But the men's attorney said they were transporting hemp and had fully researched Oklahoma laws to make sure they were doing everything properly.

Pawhuska Police said they'll test the product in all the boxes to see exactly what they found.

http://www.newson6.com/story/39761118/4-men-accused-of-transporting-marijuana-taken-into-custody



Hemp is now legal. That’s huge for the CBD industry.
https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/12/13/18139678/cbd-industry-hemp-legalization-farm-bill



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on January 10, 2019, 09:52:01 am
If this indeed turns out to be industrial hemp, will Pawhuska PD return it and send them on their way, or will they find some reason to retain it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on January 10, 2019, 11:25:15 am
If this indeed turns out to be industrial hemp, will Pawhuska PD return it and send them on their way, or will they find some reason to retain it.

Will the OHP return the truck?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 10, 2019, 11:35:58 am
If this indeed turns out to be industrial hemp, will Pawhuska PD return it and send them on their way, or will they find some reason to retain it.

Not too long ago a pot bust could greenlight all sorts of overreach.  Its a habit that will take a long time to unlearn.
Like someone accidentally shot, the official non-accidental story will emerge days later.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 11, 2019, 11:11:42 am
Will the OHP return the truck?


(https://kubrick.htvapps.com/htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/images/drug-1547068768.jpg)

Im almost expecting to hear that the two men in the security van were uniformed licensed guards.

Quote

"It was just a simple bill," Chief Rex Wikel said. "Anybody could generate it on a computer."


...because if it were handwritten on the back of a Whataburger wrapper that would have been better...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 11, 2019, 12:42:49 pm
If this indeed turns out to be industrial hemp, will Pawhuska PD return it and send them on their way, or will they find some reason to retain it.

Semi Stopped In Pawhuska Was Carrying Industrial Hemp, Not Breaking Laws

PAWHUSKA, Oklahoma - Attorneys are working to clear the names of four men arrested in Pawhuska for transporting what police believed to be thousands of pounds of marijuana.
The attorneys said this has all been a big mistake, and that with any luck, their clients won't spend another night in jail.

Attorney Matt Lyons said his two clients were the drivers of a mini-van, which was escorting the semi-truck carrying 18,000 pounds of product.
"Their exact reason for being there was to avoid something like yesterday from happening," Lyons said.

Lyons said their company, Patriot Shield, specializes in the legal transportation of hemp. "These guys want nothing to do with the black market marijuana business," he explained.

Lyons gave News On 6 several documents, one of which shows the truck was hauling 60 pallets of industrial hemp weighing 18,000 pounds.

Colorado Hemp Attorney Frank Robison represents the company that bought the hemp from Kentucky. He said he was shocked to find out the men had been arrested.

"Who in their right mind would be importing marijuana into Colorado?" He said. "It just doesn't pass the sniff test to be quite candid."

Robison said recent legislation signed by President Trump makes the transportation of industrial hemp completely legal.
“I would expect the DEA to know," he said. "The DEA absolutely should know. But the Pawhuska police, local law enforcement, this is something that hasn’t probably trickled down.”

Lyons said all the proper documentation has been provided to the Osage County DA's office, and the DA set the men's bonds at $40,000 each.
"I'm happy that they're listening," he said. "I'm not necessarily happy with the amount per person because these people are not rich. They don't have access to large amounts of money."

http://www.newson6.com/story/39774567/attorney-semi-stopped-in-pawhuska-was-carrying-industrial-hemp-not-breaking-laws


https://www.patriotshieldsecurity.com/



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 11, 2019, 01:26:53 pm
Quote
PAWHUSKA, Oklahoma - Attorneys are working to clear the names of four men arrested in Pawhuska for transporting what police believed to be thousands of pounds of marijuana.
The attorneys said this has all been a big mistake, and that with any luck, their clients won't spend another night in jail sue the city into bankruptcy.

FIFY


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on January 11, 2019, 02:31:06 pm
This is an interesting article in Mother Jones discussing a new book that takes a hard look at the realities of smoking pot and comes to some pretty scary conclusions.  Short answer- today’s pot ain’t anything like the stuff you were smoking in high school in the 1980s.  Mother Jones isn’t exactly manning the barricades for the War on Drugs, so is a pretty interesting take from an unlikely source.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/01/new-york-times-journalist-alex-berenson-tell-your-children-marijuana-crime-mental-illness-1/

I’m generally opposed to legalizing recreational marijuana because it is my sense that there is still too much we don’t know.  However, I’ve been pretty agnostic on the medical marijuana issue, but voted for it because, well I don’t know, I didn’t want to see Oklahoma to be the last state to adopt it.

That said, the whole medical benefits debate has always struck me as peculiar.  On one hand, the “just say no” folks don’t seem to want to consider even the possibility that it can help certain people with certain conditions - when it seems there is strong evidence it can.  But then the advocates usually strike me as the kind of people who try to convince you that a Chiropractor can cure whatever ails you.

At any rate, for anyone who cares about this debate, this book seems like good read.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 11, 2019, 08:17:36 pm

The attorneys said this has all been a big mistake, and that with any luck, their clients won't spend another night in jail sue the city into bankruptcy.


It does seem like OHP and the local deputies acted in bad faith by initially clouding details like them arresting security guards, but we know who really picks up the tab, right?  Next year is really going to suck for Pawhuska Public Schools.


In these instances, local law enforcement follows a suspect and then pulls them over for a mundane reason, like failing to use a turn signal. While the stop is meant to look random, cops are often working on a tip they received from a federal agency like the DEA.

“Sometimes when tips come through, the federal authorities don’t even tell the local authorities what they’re looking for,” says St. Vincent. The tip could be as simple as to watch out for a car at a specific place and time.

These stops are referred to as “wall off” or “whisper” stops, according to the Human Rights Watch report. In these instances, local law enforcement has to find probable cause for pulling the suspect over to avoid disclosing the tip. The tip is then never mentioned in court, and instead the beginning of the investigation is said to be the “random” stop.


https://www.wired.com/story/stingray-secret-surveillance-programs/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 11, 2019, 08:27:42 pm
This is an interesting article in Mother Jones discussing a new book that takes a hard look at the realities of smoking pot and comes to some pretty scary conclusions.  Short answer- today’s pot ain’t anything like the stuff you were smoking in high school in the 1980s.  Mother Jones isn’t exactly manning the barricades for the War on Drugs, so is a pretty interesting take from an unlikely source.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/01/new-york-times-journalist-alex-berenson-tell-your-children-marijuana-crime-mental-illness-1/

I’m generally opposed to legalizing recreational marijuana because it is my sense that there is still too much we don’t know.  However, I’ve been pretty agnostic on the medical marijuana issue, but voted for it because, well I don’t know, I didn’t want to see Oklahoma to be the last state to adopt it.

That said, the whole medical benefits debate has always struck me as peculiar.  On one hand, the “just say no” folks don’t seem to want to consider even the possibility that it can help certain people with certain conditions - when it seems there is strong evidence it can.  But then the advocates usually strike me as the kind of people who try to convince you that a Chiropractor can cure whatever ails you.

At any rate, for anyone who cares about this debate, this book seems like good read.



No.  Chiropractors won't cure whatever ails you.

Marijuana will help a lot more things than a Chiropractor.


Here is another good book.  Wrote about the benefits of pot a long time ago... just has taken 40+ years for people to start thinking more.  (Started in '73, published in '85)

Jack Herrer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor_Wears_No_Clothes



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 12, 2019, 12:00:45 pm
The 17,258 pounds of plant material seized by Pawhuska police this week was industrial hemp, a product that’s legal to possess or transport nationwide, according to documentation from the purchaser and an attorney involved in the case.

Hemp and marijuana are products of the cannabis plant, but the former contains none of the intoxicating chemical compounds of marijuana and has been made legal in the U.S.

Pawhuska police seized the shipment Wednesday morning while it was en route to a Colorado business and jailed the occupants of the truck and a van accompanying the shipment on complaints of trafficking marijuana in excess of 1,000 pounds, according to jail records.
Pawhuska police did not respond to multiple requests for comment since the arrests and seizure.

The Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control was called to the traffic stop Wednesday, but the Pawhuska Police Department is the lead agency in the investigation.
“We don’t know if it is marijuana. We don’t know if it is hemp,” Mark Woodward, a spokesman for the OBNDD, said Wednesday.
The difference between the two can be apparent from visual inspection for those who know what they’re looking for, but only a chemical test can determine for certain whether cannabis plant material has a low enough threshold to qualify as hemp. Authorities in Oklahoma had taken the material for testing, but results were not available Friday.

James Baumgartner, president of the Colorado-based purchaser of the shipment, provided documentation showing the majority of the plant material tested at or below the federal threshold of three-tenths of 1 percent THC content for hemp. Cannabis that becomes medical and recreational marijuana, by contrast, typically has THC contents around 15 percent to 20 percent.
Baumgartner said Panacea Life Sciences ordered the shipment of hemp from Kentucky because the company’s needs were beyond what the 2018 hemp harvest in Colorado could support.

“Kentucky does a better job than just about every other state,” Baumgartner said. “What the state does is take very good control over the farming element. They quarantine it; they test it; and they certify it before they will let it be sold commercially.”

Baumgartner said a Pawhuska Police Department representative yelled at and hung up on one of his employees who called seeking information.

Osage County prosecutors said Thursday they had yet to receive an investigative report from Pawhuska police.
Pawhuska police reportedly stopped the truck in the city for failure to stop at a traffic control signal.

At issue is the THC content of the plants in the shipment, said Colorado attorney Mark Robison, who represents one of the involved entities. He said officers believed the seized material to be marijuana because of a field test.

Robison said law enforcers do not readily have the tools to determine whether someone has legal cannabis plant material. A field test for drugs, he said, “isn’t going to do it anymore.”

“We have a suite of paperwork that (proves the shipment) is hemp, but they jump to the conclusion that it’s marijuana and that it’s the biggest marijuana bust of all time,” Robison said.

The nearly 9-ton shipment was valued at about $850,000. A similar shipment of medical or recreational marijuana, Baumgartner said, would have been valued around $17 million. Panacea Life Sciences uses hemp to make its hemp oil-based products, including topical products and dietary supplements.

Baumgartner expressed concern that the shipment may sustain damage or degradation to the point where the material is no longer usable.

“Would you ship a $17 million product in cardboard boxes like that?” Baumgartner asked. “Right there, that tells you there are going to be discrete differences in how the products are going to be handled.”

The laws regarding cannabis became complicated when hemp became legal at the end of 2018 after an act of Congress signed by the president. Robison said there will be a learning curve for code that was enacted less than a month ago.

The Agriculture Improvement Act of 2018, also known as the 2018 farm bill, removed hemp from the Controlled Substances Act and provided protections for the interstate commerce of hemp.

The (federal) law says no state or Indian tribe “shall prohibit transportation or shipment of hemp” that was produced in accordance with the law.

Kentucky, where the shipment originated, tightly controls its hemp industry, providing testing procedures and disposal procedures should hemp test above the federal threshold.

Woodward said there remains much “gray area” with State Question 788, the farm bill and Oklahoma’s pilot hemp program.
“The Agriculture Improvement Act, there’s certain provisions of it that do allow for hemp shipments to be sent and potentially some shipments that may be outside of the AIA, so we will always take it on a case-by-case basis,” Woodward said.

Baumgartner and Robison said that, should the seizure result in financial damages with no criminal charges being filed, they would consider legal action for civil relief
.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/biggest-marijuana-bust-of-all-time-no-just-legal-hemp/article_f8e59c4e-dc26-5ee3-81c7-3da033db4f8d.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on January 12, 2019, 03:07:40 pm
The 17,258 pounds of plant material seized by Pawhuska police this week was industrial hemp, a product that’s legal to possess or transport nationwide, according to documentation from the purchaser and an attorney involved in the case.

Hemp and marijuana are products of the cannabis plant, but the former contains none of the intoxicating chemical compounds of marijuana and has been made legal in the U.S.

Pawhuska police seized the shipment Wednesday morning while it was en route to a Colorado business and jailed the occupants of the truck and a van accompanying the shipment on complaints of trafficking marijuana in excess of 1,000 pounds, according to jail records.
Pawhuska police did not respond to multiple requests for comment since the arrests and seizure.

The Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control was called to the traffic stop Wednesday, but the Pawhuska Police Department is the lead agency in the investigation.
“We don’t know if it is marijuana. We don’t know if it is hemp,” Mark Woodward, a spokesman for the OBNDD, said Wednesday.
The difference between the two can be apparent from visual inspection for those who know what they’re looking for, but only a chemical test can determine for certain whether cannabis plant material has a low enough threshold to qualify as hemp. Authorities in Oklahoma had taken the material for testing, but results were not available Friday.

James Baumgartner, president of the Colorado-based purchaser of the shipment, provided documentation showing the majority of the plant material tested at or below the federal threshold of three-tenths of 1 percent THC content for hemp. Cannabis that becomes medical and recreational marijuana, by contrast, typically has THC contents around 15 percent to 20 percent.
Baumgartner said Panacea Life Sciences ordered the shipment of hemp from Kentucky because the company’s needs were beyond what the 2018 hemp harvest in Colorado could support.

“Kentucky does a better job than just about every other state,” Baumgartner said. “What the state does is take very good control over the farming element. They quarantine it; they test it; and they certify it before they will let it be sold commercially.”

Baumgartner said a Pawhuska Police Department representative yelled at and hung up on one of his employees who called seeking information.

Osage County prosecutors said Thursday they had yet to receive an investigative report from Pawhuska police.
Pawhuska police reportedly stopped the truck in the city for failure to stop at a traffic control signal.

At issue is the THC content of the plants in the shipment, said Colorado attorney Mark Robison, who represents one of the involved entities. He said officers believed the seized material to be marijuana because of a field test.

Robison said law enforcers do not readily have the tools to determine whether someone has legal cannabis plant material. A field test for drugs, he said, “isn’t going to do it anymore.”

“We have a suite of paperwork that (proves the shipment) is hemp, but they jump to the conclusion that it’s marijuana and that it’s the biggest marijuana bust of all time,” Robison said.

The nearly 9-ton shipment was valued at about $850,000. A similar shipment of medical or recreational marijuana, Baumgartner said, would have been valued around $17 million. Panacea Life Sciences uses hemp to make its hemp oil-based products, including topical products and dietary supplements.

Baumgartner expressed concern that the shipment may sustain damage or degradation to the point where the material is no longer usable.

“Would you ship a $17 million product in cardboard boxes like that?” Baumgartner asked. “Right there, that tells you there are going to be discrete differences in how the products are going to be handled.”

The laws regarding cannabis became complicated when hemp became legal at the end of 2018 after an act of Congress signed by the president. Robison said there will be a learning curve for code that was enacted less than a month ago.

The Agriculture Improvement Act of 2018, also known as the 2018 farm bill, removed hemp from the Controlled Substances Act and provided protections for the interstate commerce of hemp.

The (federal) law says no state or Indian tribe “shall prohibit transportation or shipment of hemp” that was produced in accordance with the law.

Kentucky, where the shipment originated, tightly controls its hemp industry, providing testing procedures and disposal procedures should hemp test above the federal threshold.

Woodward said there remains much “gray area” with State Question 788, the farm bill and Oklahoma’s pilot hemp program.
“The Agriculture Improvement Act, there’s certain provisions of it that do allow for hemp shipments to be sent and potentially some shipments that may be outside of the AIA, so we will always take it on a case-by-case basis,” Woodward said.

Baumgartner and Robison said that, should the seizure result in financial damages with no criminal charges being filed, they would consider legal action for civil relief
.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/biggest-marijuana-bust-of-all-time-no-just-legal-hemp/article_f8e59c4e-dc26-5ee3-81c7-3da033db4f8d.html

Sounds like the city of Pawhuska may be on the hook for a lawsuit..


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 12, 2019, 05:10:47 pm


The Agriculture Improvement Act of 2018, also known as the 2018 farm bill, removed hemp from the Controlled Substances Act and provided protections for the interstate commerce of hemp.

The (federal) law says no state or Indian tribe “shall prohibit transportation or shipment of hemp” that was produced in accordance with the law.


Woodward said there remains much “gray area” with State Question 788, the farm bill and Oklahoma’s pilot hemp program.
“The Agriculture Improvement Act, there’s certain provisions of it that do allow for hemp shipments to be sent and potentially some shipments that may be outside of the AIA, so we will always take it on a case-by-case basis,” Woodward said.



So once again, we make national headlines for stupid.  What kind of idiot is this Woodward clown - who is supposed to be a "law enforcement officer" - such that he is not familiar with some fairly basic Federal laws??   And how that applies to Oklahoma law?   (He should read his Constitution a little more closely about restraint of trade between states.)   Especially when they have used pretty easy words, even for an Okie... there is NO "gray area".  It is clear, specific, and unambiguous.  No state or Indian tribe shall prohibit transportation or shipment of hemp. 

So this "LEO" is actually breaking Federal law.  Now there is a good "public servant".



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 12, 2019, 08:12:04 pm

So once again, we make national headlines for stupid.  What kind of idiot is this Woodward clown - who is supposed to be a "law enforcement officer" - such that he is not familiar with some fairly basic Federal laws??   And how that applies to Oklahoma law? 


Mark Woodward, with the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics, said, “I’ve seen it wreck more lives than any other drug.”
https://kfor.com/2014/01/20/senator-pushes-for-legalization-of-marijuana/

That kind of idiot.  Ill have to dig more to find where he was quoted saying marijuana is the number one drug problem.

Some will argue that the law legalizing hemp is fairly recent, but I will argue that if you enforce drug laws you should have more than just a passing familiarity with those laws.   Pawhuska Police, the Osage County Sheriff’s Office, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol, the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and the Drug Enforcement Administration all had a chance to say "Um, guys..." when they were playing for the cameras, but now, crickets.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 12, 2019, 10:53:28 pm
These guys effed up big time.  Having a father-in-law who is a retired LEO, I get that they all feel they have a purpose and some things are drilled in their heads even though their personal convictions may not fall in line with that.  These guys over-stepped and from the initial reports, it appears they knew this from the git-go but they lacked the courage or integrity to say they were wrong.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 13, 2019, 09:11:03 pm
These guys effed up big time.  Having a father-in-law who is a retired LEO, I get that they all feel they have a purpose and some things are drilled in their heads even though their personal convictions may not fall in line with that.  These guys over-stepped and from the initial reports, it appears they knew this from the git-go but they lacked the courage or integrity to say they were wrong.


Because this looks just like what you get at a dispensary. /not

(https://static-10.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/c5cbe44e-b396-43b6-a749-2976a99e3267-e.PNG)

KTUL seemed convinced though.
Federal authorities investigate 18,000 pounds of marijuana in Pawhuska (actual headline)
One of his officers just so happened to be in the area and flashed her lights.
https://ktul.com/news/local/federal-authorities-investigate-18000-pounds-of-marijuana-in-pawhuska

(District Attorney Mike) Fisher said state agencies in Oklahoma lacked the capacity to resolve the issue, and the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration, commonly called the DEA, had sent a sample to a lab in the Washington, D.C., area, but that lab is closed because of the ongoing federal government shutdown.
https://www.pawhuskajournalcapital.com/news/20190111/federal-shutdown-puts-hemp-or-dope-question-in-limbo

“The route between Kentucky and Colorado wouldn’t lead you through Oklahoma. It would go through Kansas,” said Sheriff Eddie Virden, with the Osage County Sheriff’s Office.
https://kfor.com/2019/01/10/4-arrested-after-police-discover-18000-pounds-of-marijuana-in-semi-truck/

(Pawhuska Police Chief Rex) Wikel said the federal officers were taking over the investigation. Wikel added the material being shipped in the truck had field-tested positive for marijuana, but he clarified that industrial hemp can do that. He said law officers found paperwork during the investigation that listed Illinois, Kansas and Texas as states to be avoided with the cargo in the truck.
https://www.pawhuskajournalcapital.com/news/20190111/federal-shutdown-puts-hemp-or-dope-question-in-limbo

(https://static-33.sinclairstoryline.com/resources/media/10f6b066-c459-4c3b-9b71-8b43f90aff8b-ess.PNG)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 14, 2019, 10:54:52 am

“The route between Kentucky and Colorado wouldn’t lead you through Oklahoma. It would go through Kansas,” said Sheriff Eddie Virden, with the Osage County Sheriff’s Office.
https://kfor.com/2019/01/10/4-arrested-after-police-discover-18000-pounds-of-marijuana-in-semi-truck/




A very special kind of stupid who has obviously never driven outside the state of Okrahoma.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 14, 2019, 10:52:02 pm
You can put someone in jail over a lax drug field test, but there is apparently only one laboratory in Washington D.C. that can do a legitimate test for marijuana.  Prosecutors and police may want to make note of that.

Amid a federal shutdown that’s slowed or stalled many government operations, four men in Pawhuska are awaiting test results from the Drug Enforcement Administration that will be the difference between being freed from jail or facing marijuana trafficking charges. They remain held in lieu of $40,000 bond.

(DEA Special Agent Rick) Salter confirmed that samples of the seized product had been collected for testing by the DEA. He estimated that it could be up to four weeks before results are available.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/in-limbo-fate-of-men-arrested-over-cannabis-shipment-waits/article_ccc17b0d-20da-54e1-87eb-c1251ff00b82.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 15, 2019, 10:58:47 am
You can put someone in jail over a lax drug field test, but there is apparently only one laboratory in Washington D.C. that can do a legitimate test for marijuana.  Prosecutors and police may want to make note of that.

Amid a federal shutdown that’s slowed or stalled many government operations, four men in Pawhuska are awaiting test results from the Drug Enforcement Administration that will be the difference between being freed from jail or facing marijuana trafficking charges. They remain held in lieu of $40,000 bond.

(DEA Special Agent Rick) Salter confirmed that samples of the seized product had been collected for testing by the DEA. He estimated that it could be up to four weeks before results are available.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/in-limbo-fate-of-men-arrested-over-cannabis-shipment-waits/article_ccc17b0d-20da-54e1-87eb-c1251ff00b82.html




Another Trump Fail.  Keeping the government shut down so they can harass people at all levels.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on January 15, 2019, 01:23:51 pm
Something about this story feels off.  Maybe it is just overzealous local cops looking for a big civil forfeiture payout.  But if you are shipping a tractor trailer load of industrial hemp across the country under the current laws and police climate, wouldn’t you be extra careful to have all the necessary paperwork, documentation and manifest lined up proving that it is actually industrial hemp?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on January 16, 2019, 12:24:21 pm
Something about this story feels off.  Maybe it is just overzealous local cops looking for a big civil forfeiture payout.  But if you are shipping a tractor trailer load of industrial hemp across the country under the current laws and police climate, wouldn’t you be extra careful to have all the necessary paperwork, documentation and manifest lined up proving that it is actually industrial hemp?

Did you read the original article?

“We have a suite of paperwork that (proves the shipment) is hemp, but they jump to the conclusion that it’s marijuana and that it’s the biggest marijuana bust of all time,” Robison said.


The crew apparently stuck around for hours working with the various officials trying to work this out, which I assume would have included calls to both the supplier and customer, but were still arrested.

What's telling to me is that they were offered the chance to leave, but authorities wanted to keep the truck.   If were not about forfeiture, the cops could have simply recorded everything, taken a sample of load, and sent them on their way.  Charges could be pressed later, if needed. But then the locals don't have the truck to sell later.

There is no way a law enforcement person could possibly think that was actual marijuana for distribution. I mean, look at it.  At "best", they may have thought they could gin something up related to the THC content not testing low enough, but that's a stretch.   They just wanted to keep the truck, or they are complete idiots, or both.







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on January 16, 2019, 03:00:23 pm
Did you read the original article?

“We have a suite of paperwork that (proves the shipment) is hemp, but they jump to the conclusion that it’s marijuana and that it’s the biggest marijuana bust of all time,” Robison said.


The crew apparently stuck around for hours working with the various officials trying to work this out, which I assume would have included calls to both the supplier and customer, but were still arrested.

What's telling to me is that they were offered the chance to leave, but authorities wanted to keep the truck.   If were not about forfeiture, the cops could have simply recorded everything, taken a sample of load, and sent them on their way.  Charges could be pressed later, if needed. But then the locals don't have the truck to sell later.

There is no way a law enforcement person could possibly think that was actual marijuana for distribution. I mean, look at it.  At "best", they may have thought they could gin something up related to the THC content not testing low enough, but that's a stretch.   They just wanted to keep the truck, or they are complete idiots, or both.







I did not get that impression from the original article, but today's makes that a lot clearer. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 16, 2019, 06:45:48 pm

What's telling to me is that they were offered the chance to leave, but authorities wanted to keep the truck.   If were not about forfeiture, the cops could have simply recorded everything, taken a sample of load, and sent them on their way.  Charges could be pressed later, if needed. But then the locals don't have the truck to sell later.


The Civil Forfeiture aspect has the Department of Public Safety's scent all over it.


There is no way a law enforcement person could possibly think that was actual marijuana for distribution. I mean, look at it.  At "best", they may have thought they could gin something up related to the THC content not testing low enough, but that's a stretch.   They just wanted to keep the truck, or they are complete idiots, or both.




Baumgartner says there was a manifest in the truck listing the cargo as hemp. He also says contractors received pre-clearance from the State of Oklahoma, but that wasn’t enough to encourage local police Pawhuska to simply move on. Instead, officers arrested the drivers and security detail.

https://kdvr.com/2019/01/14/local-hemp-manufacturer-claims-500k-worth-of-legal-hemp-confiscated-in-oklahoma/






PAWHUSKA — There were a few moments overnight Jan. 9 in which Andrew Ross was free to leave with the others in his crew.

Just not with the truck trailer hauling what law enforcement suspected was 8 to 10 tons of illegal marijuana.
Ross and his business partner, David Dirksen, had been in a van behind the tractor-trailer rig.

Ross said Tuesday that the plant material — which he described as akin to “rotten hay” with mold on it — is legal industrial hemp. As CEO of Patriot Shield Security, Ross described it as his duty to protect the cargo en route to the purchaser, a Colorado company that offers hemp-based therapeutics.

So Ross, Dirksen and the two men in the truck stayed on Main Street in Pawhuska for several hours to answer questions in a failed bid to convince law enforcement officers that they were legally transporting medicine, not illicit drugs. Then they were arrested.

“If we are drug traffickers, we’re the worst drug traffickers in the world,” Ross said. “Every different law enforcement agency that came on the scene tried to get us to leave. And we refused to leave. We stuck around.

“It was product we were responsible for. So we stayed around to make sure it was handled correctly and just to answer any questions and to help everybody understand that it is industrial hemp. It’s a legal product.”

Ross and Dirksen each were charged Tuesday with aggravated trafficking of 20,500 pounds of marijuana. Both posted $40,000 bonds for release from the Osage County jail after video arraignments in district court.

Documentation provided by the defendants, however, indicates that the weight of the crop, excluding packaging, was about 17,200 pounds.

The two men in the truck, Tadesse Deneke and Farah Warsame, were charged with the same crime and remain jailed in lieu of $40,000 bond. Deneke and Warsame were subcontracted by Patriot Shield to drive the truck from a hemp farm in Kentucky to the purchaser, Panacea Life Sciences, in Colorado.

Ross and Dirksen also were charged with possession of a firearm in the commission of a felony. Ross said the handgun is legally owned and was in a locked case in a duffel bag in the back of the van, which is separated from the front seats by a cage.

Defense attorney Matt Lyons questioned why charges were filed before testing of the THC content of the product could be completed. The completion of testing is dependent on a federal agency during a partial shutdown of the federal government.
Why not release all four men and file arrest warrants later if charges are deemed necessary, he asked.

Lyons said he was told that a laboratory had determined that some of the substance was marijuana by studying it with a microscope.
“The federal law says there’s no difference between marijuana and hemp and that the only difference is the quantity of the THC,” Lyons said. “Last I checked they can’t look at that underneath a microscope.

“The problem is if they don’t determine it to be marijuana today, they can’t press charges. If they can’t press charges, they can’t hold a truck and a minivan. ... Meanwhile, we’re providing as much mitigating evidence as I’ve ever provided in a case prior to any charges being filed, and it’s just doing no good.”

Lyons and the purchaser supplied to the Tulsa World earlier this week documentation that the plant material in question is industrial hemp that is legal to possess or transport nationwide.

The majority of the product tested at or below the federal threshold of three-tenths of 1 percent THC content for hemp, according to the documents. In contrast, cannabis that becomes medical or recreational marijuana typically has THC — the psychoactive component of marijuana — content of around 15 percent to 20 percent.

First Assistant District Attorney Michelle Bodine-Keely said Tuesday that it’s the state’s prerogative to decide whether and when to file charges within the statute of limitations. She declined to discuss specifics of the case.

“Some of the things we consider are whether we have probable cause to believe a crime was committed in the jurisdiction, whether there is a danger to the public, whether there is a flight risk,” Bodine-Keely said.

Pawhuska Police Chief Rex Wickle said he was handed documents by a manager of the subcontracted trucking company Tuesday that he would look at and give to the District Attorney’s Office. Wickle declined to comment further.

Aggravated trafficking of illegal drugs is punishable by 15 years to life in prison, with a fine between $100,000 and $500,000, according to court documents.

Police say the truck driver failed to stop at a stop light.

At first, Ross told the Tulsa World from the lobby of the county jail, he thought the matter would be resolved expeditiously. But he said it became clear that officers were confused and “had no idea what they were looking at.”

More law enforcement agencies — the Osage County Sheriff’s Office, Osage Nation tribal police, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol — responded after police made the traffic stop. Eventually, around 9 or 10 a.m., representatives of the federal Drug Enforcement Agency arrived, Ross said.

He thought that if someone — anyone — would recognize legal industrial hemp, it would be the DEA.

To his dismay, Ross said, the two agents thought the product appeared to be marijuana. A field test would turn up purple if THC was in the plant material, he was told.

That was when he knew he and the others would be handcuffed and taken to jail, because legal hemp has minuscule amounts of THC.

“Clearly this is industrial hemp. I don’t know what those DEA agents are talking about when they looked at it,” Ross said.
“It’s literally a giant bag of like rotten hay. It’s got mold on it. It’s sticks and stems. It’s gross. It’s not something anybody would buy.

“It is 100 percent different than what marijuana would look like. So for anybody to have actually gone through that product and then still a week later they’re saying it’s marijuana and not industrial hemp, it’s insane.”

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/man-charged-with-marijuana-trafficking-in-pawhuska-disputes-charge-says/article_5347f894-99f1-5272-abe7-47ffcf6810a5.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 17, 2019, 03:09:49 pm

Osage County District Attorney Mike Fischer said the alleged hemp confiscated in Pawhuska last week had clear signs under a microscope that it was in fact marijuana. He described hemp as the male version of the plant and marijuana as the female version.

"There were clear male and female differences we could see, and what I saw was clearly what for this story could be classified as female," Fischer said.

https://www.krmg.com/news/national/hemp-marijuana-what-the-difference/h0WiRjkfLywYbrdg3EY7uK/

(https://i.imgur.com/awUoLmf.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 17, 2019, 11:13:08 pm
Hey, Okrahoma... Let's go out and get us sum of dem guud payin' jobs and get us sum big companies to move here...!!


THIS is the special kind of stupid that we do to ourselves on a national basis.  Repeatedly.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 18, 2019, 07:01:48 pm
These guys over-stepped and from the initial reports, it appears they knew this from the git-go but they lacked the courage or integrity to say they were wrong.

“At the end of the day, everybody was just kind of scared to be the ones that let it go if something came back and they found out they weren’t supposed to let us go.”
https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/hemp-or-marijuana-government-shutdown-delays-drug-test-in-marijuana-trafficking-case/73-7ab52e69-6fb6-4078-aed4-84a4968428c9



They also knew they had jumped the gun, so to save face they just went ahead and arrested everyone.  After all, the tactic worked so well at Twin Peaks in Waco...

Yeah, we wouldnt want to be responsible if that marijuana kills somebody later on.



Compare to:

Marijuana grow house burglarized in west Tulsa; teen suspects questioned and released

Investigators found "what appeared to be" fabricated paperwork for the cultivation and distribution of the plant, Edwards said. Officers were unable to determine that authenticity of the paperwork early Tuesday morning, nor were they able to locate a business or property owner.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/marijuana-grow-house-burglarized-in-west-tulsa-teen-suspects-questioned/article_46e08d08-ef9f-5d5a-b5ef-cbd3177e0d34.html

police also had a hard time verifying the marijuana was legal and weren't able to reach the owners of the shop until several hours later, meaning they had to let the teenagers walk free.
http://www.newson6.com/story/39834814/tulsa-police-frustrated-by-poorly-protected-marijuana-growing-facility


It was a legal grow house.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 19, 2019, 10:45:06 am
“At the end of the day, everybody was just kind of scared to be the ones that let it go if something came back and they found out they weren’t supposed to let us go.”

https://www.9news.com/article/news/local/next/hemp-or-marijuana-government-shutdown-delays-drug-test-in-marijuana-trafficking-case/73-7ab52e69-6fb6-4078-aed4-84a4968428c9


That's so lame of them.  Not like they couldn't reach out and touch someone later...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 19, 2019, 11:00:41 am
Numbers from the Oklahoma Tax Commission show medical marijuana sales reached nearly $1 million in December, generating about $70,000 for state coffers from a special new tax on those sales.

The Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority, as of Jan. 14, has generated more than $10 million in licensing fees after approving applications from 30,835 patients, 191 caregivers, 848 dispensaries, 1,385 growers and 361 processors.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/oklahoma-s-medical-marijuana-sales-reached-nearly-million-in-december/article_ce5733bf-3549-5a91-9abd-ad9de10e7483.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 22, 2019, 07:44:16 pm

The unresolved saga of the massive crop shipment seized by law enforcement in Pawhuska nearly two weeks ago is exposing how unprepared Oklahoma — and likely other states — is for legal industrial hemp.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/hemp-or-marijuana-pawhuska-case-reveals-oklahoma-isn-t-ready/article_e04888e8-f666-5b91-88e9-13b3bc7871fa.html

More likely, exposing how unwilling Oklahoma law enforcement is to accept reform in the "war on drugs."



The Oklahoma Highway Patrol says no agencies in the state have field tests to differentiate hemp from marijuana. OHP also has no policy in place regarding the transport of hemp, though the agency is researching the issue.

“Somebody was going to end up being a martyr for this (industry). We were prepared to do it, and now, it’s happened,” Andrew Ross said last week from the lobby of the Osage County jail. “We’re ready to hopefully use this experience to get states on board.”

Ross, 29, and business partner David Dirksen, 31, spent six days locked in jail. Each posted a $40,000 bond Jan. 15, the same day prosecutors charged them with aggravated trafficking of 20,500 pounds of marijuana.

Also charged were the tractor-trailer rig’s two drivers — Tadesse Deneke, 51, and Farah Warsame, 33. All four live in different states.

Unable to secure bail, Deneke and Warsame remained jailed as of Monday afternoon. They were subcontracted by Patriot Shield Security, the business formed by Ross and two other veterans.

Colorado officials confirmed the shipment’s purchasers are in “good standing” with the state. Kentucky officials confirmed the hemp farm that sold the cannabis is licensed for growing and handling the plant.

Meanwhile, the nine tons of plant material a purchaser says is worth in excess of $500,000 may degrade to the point of uselessness as Oklahoma investigators wrangle with whether it was a legal shipment.

Tulsa attorney Matt Lyons, representing Ross and Dirksen, bailed out the pair Tuesday after their video appearances for arraignment in Osage County District Court.

Lyons said his clients did their due diligence beforehand and have complete documentation from the buying and selling parties that the crop is hemp. Patriot Shield simply signed on to provide security during transport of the shipment and performed due diligence ensuring affairs were in order, he said.

Pawhuska police have submitted samples of the seized shipment to a U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration lab in Virginia.

The legal difference between the controlled substance marijuana and industrial hemp is a chemical distinction.
Hemp is federally forbidden to exceed a THC content of three-tenths of a percent. Marijuana averages between 15 percent and 20 percent THC content.

Laws regarding cannabis grew more hazy when hemp became legal after Trump signed the Agriculture Improvement Act of 2018, also known as the 2018 farm bill.

That removed hemp from the Controlled Substances Act and provided protections for the interstate commerce of hemp. The law declares no state or Indian tribe “shall prohibit transportation or shipment of hemp” that was produced in accordance with the law.

In plotting a route from Kentucky to northern Colorado, Ross said state troopers in Kansas and Nebraska a year earlier told him over the phone they would be arrested on the spot if they tried to traverse their respective states.

Ross decided on a northern route through Oklahoma, figuring transport would be fine given that the state Legislature recently approved an industrial hemp agricultural pilot program.

“(Oklahoma’s) our vetted route. It’s where we’ve gone before, and it’s where we’re hoping to go in the future,” Ross said. “The reason we ended up in Pawhuska is because we kind of go through the Panhandle and then skirt up into the southern part of Colorado.”

Pawhuska Police Chief Rex Wickle said the papers were not in order the night of the traffic stop. Wickle also called it “fishy” that some of the documents were altered by hand.
“The paperwork provided to the Pawhuska Police Department only was a bill of lading, a grower’s license and the chemical test that didn’t tie into any of the stuff on the truck or the name of the company who owns it,” Wickle said.

Ross said that statement is untrue.

He said his company’s documentation was “very thorough.” Over several hours, he and an attorney gathered every piece of documentation they could provide, such as licenses and certifications from Colorado and Kentucky.

“There was a lot of information passed to Pawhuska,” Ross said.

Sarah Stewart, OHP spokeswoman, said Pawhuska police made the arrest, so OHP is effectively removed from the investigation. She said OHP has no policy on the transport of industrial hemp through the state.

“If we test it, it will test positive for marijuana because hemp has trace amounts of THC, and our tests are only to detect the presence of any THC,” Stewart said. “It’s not quantitative. There is no agency in our state right now that does quantitative testing for THC. It has to be sent off.”

One of the intended recipients of the cannabis is Panacea Life Sciences.

James Baumgartner, the business’ president, said Panacea wouldn’t have ordered the cannabis if it believed the crop could be anything other than hemp. He noted that criminal or civil cases would be expensive for his business, absorb time from state and local officials and be costly to Oklahoma taxpayers.

“If this has to go to court and civil litigation, in my opinion, everybody loses,” Baumgartner said.

Patriot Shield is undeterred by the situation.

Since his release, Ross said his company has been on the phone with various state government agencies trying to understand how best to conduct his industrial hemp security business.

Right now, he said, it’s mostly officials passing the buck with no answers.

“Someone is going to have to take a stand at some point,” Ross said.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 25, 2019, 06:08:02 pm
A Republican from Tuttle has filed a piece of legislation that seeks to change Oklahoma's medical marijuana law as other lawmakers involved in regulating medical marijuana expect to present their own measures when the session starts next month.

Sen. Lonnie Paxton, a businessman and rancher elected in 2016, was not involved any of the work of the bipartisan medical marijuana legislative working group tasked with recommending legislation regarding the state's law.

• SQ 788 ensures patients who have not yet obtained their state license but are found to be in possession of less than 1.5 ounces of marijuana would face only a misdemeanor charge and $400 fine. Paxton’s measure would instead institute those penalties for a licensed patient who is not in possession of their state-issued card at the time of the law enforcement action. Those who have no patient license would be subject to the same criminal law as before SQ788.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/medical-marijuana-bill-would-change-the-law-as-written-in/article_488d9b5a-b7c8-5cb3-8a40-7d08b24cbf4b.html

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2019-20%20INT/SB/SB1030%20INT.PDF


No word yet on revoking the overly-broad DUI law that automatically criminalizes sober drivers with traces of non-intoxicating metabolites in their blood.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 26, 2019, 09:20:40 am
A Republican from Tuttle has filed a piece of legislation that seeks to change Oklahoma's medical marijuana law as other lawmakers involved in regulating medical marijuana expect to present their own measures when the session starts next month.

Sen. Lonnie Paxton, a businessman and rancher elected in 2016, was not involved any of the work of the bipartisan medical marijuana legislative working group tasked with recommending legislation regarding the state's law.

• SQ 788 ensures patients who have not yet obtained their state license but are found to be in possession of less than 1.5 ounces of marijuana would face only a misdemeanor charge and $400 fine. Paxton’s measure would instead institute those penalties for a licensed patient who is not in possession of their state-issued card at the time of the law enforcement action. Those who have no patient license would be subject to the same criminal law as before SQ788.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/medical-marijuana-bill-would-change-the-law-as-written-in/article_488d9b5a-b7c8-5cb3-8a40-7d08b24cbf4b.html

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2019-20%20INT/SB/SB1030%20INT.PDF


No word yet on revoking the overly-broad DUI law that automatically criminalizes sober drivers with traces of non-intoxicating metabolites in their blood.





Just what we can always expect from Okrahoma...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 28, 2019, 11:46:06 pm

The first wrinkle in the era of legal hemp comes into focus: Police officers do not appear capable of distinguishing hemp from marijuana.
A local TV news station in Nashville reported in October that police in Tennessee have already mistakenly cracked down on hemp products, which were legal under state law even before the 2018 Farm Bill passed, because neither officers nor their drug dogs can differentiate between the two plants.

https://reason.com/blog/2019/01/17/oklahoma-cops-jailed-four-men-for-transp/print

Are "drug dogs," the cash cows of so many small towns, obsolete?  

So now the rural cops are living down to an unflattering stereotype. But the four men are still facing charges.
http://www.soonerpolitics.org/nigel-omally/pawhuska-cops-got-punked-industrial-hemp-is-legal

https://www.gofundme.com/veterans-wrongfully-arrested-in-pawhuska-oklahoma



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 01, 2019, 03:53:11 pm
Samples didn't test as marijuana, so entire 9-ton hemp shipment will be tested on DA orders
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/samples-didn-t-test-as-marijuana-so-entire--ton/article_49943da5-764d-5d30-9836-00328f9fa660.html

The massive truckload of industrial hemp or illegal marijuana seized by authorities in Pawhuska may make it to Colorado after all — but not to its original destination with the purchasers.

Defense Attorney Matt Lyons on Thursday said federal testing has been completed on 11 samples, with only two found to be marginally over the legal THC limit and outside of the test’s margins of error.

So the Osage County District Attorney’s Office will send the truck to Colorado for THC testing of the entire 9 tons of cannabis in relation to hemp’s three-tenths of 1 percent legal limit, he said. The lowest level of THC in medicinal marijuana is 15 percent, Lyons said, which is nowhere near the one-half of 1 percent of THC found in the most potent test sample.

Lyons said the shipment doesn’t contain any black market marijuana, which he said is what prosecutors told him was their initial cause for concern.

“They are trying to call this marijuana, when it’s clear to the rest of the sane world that it’s not,” he said.

Additionally, federal and state laws provide support for handling the situation outside of criminal court. But the unresolved situation has exposed how unprepared Oklahoma — and probably other states — is for legal industrial hemp.

Federal law bars criminal enforcement of hemp growers found to be in violation, and the state only imposes civil fines or penalties, according to a Tulsa World review of relevant laws. Transport personnel don’t appear to be addressed as far as violations in either set of laws.

“Why is this (still) being criminally prosecuted?” Lyons said. “Is this because you made the mistake of prosecuting them before the tests were done?”


First Assistant District Attorney Michelle Bodine-Keely on Thursday declined to comment. She had said she thought the office might issue a news release Thursday, but it didn’t materialize.

Andrew Ross, 29, and business partner David Dirksen, 31, spent almost a week in jail after law enforcement seized the cargo Jan. 9 on Main Street in Pawhuska during a stop for a traffic violation.

Ross and Dirksen, who were providing security for the shipment, each posted a $40,000 bond on Jan. 15. That same day prosecutors had charged them with aggravated trafficking of marijuana — which carries a sentence of 15 years to life in prison.

Also charged with drug trafficking were the tractor-trailer rig’s two drivers — Tadesse Deneke, 51, and Farah Warsame, 33. Deneke and Warsame have been unable to secure bonds and remain jailed.

The pair were subcontracted by Patriot Shield Security, the business formed by Ross, Dirksen and two other veterans. All four defendants live in different states.

Trevor Reynolds, a Tulsa attorney for the shipment’s two drivers, questioned whether federal authorities will properly test the nearly 18,000-pound shipment.

Reynolds said THC contents in cannabis aren’t uniform, in contrast to a block of methamphetamine. He said defense attorneys have concern that authorities may have chosen plant samples that were more apt to have higher THC concentrations than the average of the whole shipment.

“I think Osage County has painted themselves into a corner a little bit,” Reynolds said. “I am fairly certain that unless the (THC content) tests at 1.0 percent or higher, the U.S. government is not going to be interested in it.”

Federal and Oklahoma hemp laws appear to support that supposition.





Meanwhile, another "failure-to-signal-leads-to-biggest-pot-bust-ever"?

Rogers County deputies confiscated 29 glass jars containing what they allege is THC oil, a concentrate made from marijuana, and arrested a California man on possession complaints.

Deputies arrested Michael John Hutchison, 56, after a traffic stop late Wednesday on allegations that he possessed the product with the intent to distribute the THC oil, according to a probable cause affidavit.

Deputies state in the affidavit that they saw a black GMC Yukon merge from the Will Rogers Turnpike to Interstate 44 in Rogers County. Hutchison, the alleged driver, made multiple lane changes and exited the interstate without the use of a turn signal.

During the subsequent traffic stop, a K9 officer reportedly alerted to the "odor of narcotics" in Hutchison's vehicle.

Deputies searched the vehicle and found two cardboard boxes containing 29 glass jars. The jars contained "a thick brownish substance, that later field tested positive for THC," according to the affidavit.

"I have seen this on numerous occasions in the past, and recognize it to be a highly concentrated THC oil, or compound, that is very expensive and in great demand," the
(unnamed Rogers County) arresting deputy states in the affidavit.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/jars-of-highly-concentrated-thc-oil-found-during-traffic-stop/article_351ad822-1b5d-5c6c-b71d-6d6c485f6656.html

Legal, non-intoxicating CBD oil will also test positive for traces of THC.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 05, 2019, 12:01:40 pm
Much like the Waco Twin Peaks debacle, authorities are prepared to ruin the lives of the "over-arrested" than admit mistakes.


 
The two incarcerated truck drivers of the enormous hemp shipment seized in Pawhuska are legal immigrants from Africa who don’t completely understand why they have been locked up for simply doing their jobs, according to the attorney representing them pro bono.

Tadesse Deneke, 51, is described as a U.S. citizen who is in danger of losing his home in Alabama because he can’t make mortgage payments. Farah Warsame, 33, is a green card holder in Ohio studying at a small college and seeking citizenship.

Defense attorney Bransford Shoemake said that with English as their second language, it’s difficult for him to explain fully what is happening to them. The pair have been jailed for nearly a month after law enforcement took custody of a nine-ton load of industrial hemp that authorities believe to be marijuana.

Of 11 samples tested by the Drug Enforcement Administration, three tested marginally above the three-tenths of 1 percent THC limit for legal hemp, according to the results provided to the Tulsa World by another defense attorney on the case. The margins of error for the other eight samples touch or encompass hemp’s legal limit.

“It’s freaking hemp, man,” Shoemake said Friday. “It’s not like they had a load of heroin or were loaded up with stolen car parts. And they’re going to ruin these guys’ lives over that?”

The Osage County District Attorney’s Office didn’t provide comment.

Shoemake said District Attorney Mike Fisher is a “fine man” and as honest a prosecutor as there is in the profession. But Shoemake said he doesn’t understand or even know why the case is being handled in this fashion.

Deneke and Warsame, along with hemp security providers Andrew Ross and David Dirksen, are charged with marijuana trafficking. A conviction carries with it a sentence of 15 years to life.

Ross and Dirksen are free after each posted $20,000 bonds Jan. 15.

For Deneke and Warsame, their attorney has been unable to find an agency willing to post either of their $40,000 bonds. He said anyone willing to do so may call his Pawhuska office at 918-287-1812.

“The security drivers made bond, and these guys are just sitting in jail,” Shoemake said, noting that the two who were able to gain release are white business owners. “I think it’s a miscarriage of justice.”

Shoemake has argued with prosecutors that they don’t need either driver in custody to prove whatever case it is they seek. He said both should be released on their own recognizance so they can be with their families and go back to work.

Shoemake explained that Deneke and Warsame were told the cargo was legal industrial hemp. Their boss assigned them to the shipment, and they were being compensated by the mile to drive the tractor-trailer from point A to point B.

“They had no idea there was anything potentially, remotely considered to be an illegal load,” Shoemake said.

Federal and state laws provide support for handling the situation outside of criminal court. But the unresolved situation has exposed how unprepared Oklahoma — and probably other states — is for legal industrial hemp.

Federal law bars criminal enforcement of hemp growers found to be in violation, and the state only imposes civil fines or penalties, according to a Tulsa World review of relevant laws. Transport personnel don’t appear to be addressed as far as violations in either set of laws.

Deneke, now a U.S. citizen, came to America from Ethiopia with his daughter. She is now 28, and Deneke is the sole breadwinner.

Shoemake said Deneke also sends regular payments to his wife in Ethiopia, with the hope of her immigrating to the U.S. at some point. His incarceration has put his mortgage in flux on his home in Mobile, Alabama.

“(His daughter) has called me several times, crying in broken English, ‘Are you going to be able to help my daddy?’?” Shoemake said.

Warsame, who lives in Cleveland, Ohio, is from Somalia. Shoemake said he speaks “relatively good English” and is learning the truck-driving ropes under Deneke as he studies in college.

Shoemake said Warsame’s family has gathered the $4,000 needed to put down 10 percent of his bond if an agent is willing.

“They just say, ‘Why is this happening?’?” Shoemake said. “And I don’t really have a good answer.”

Shoemake said he visits the Osage County jail to see Deneke and Warsame on a regular basis.

Both are religious and still praying, he said. Deneke spends time reading the Bible. Warsame the Quran. They came to the U.S. in search of better lives.

“You’re not going to be unfairly taken advantage of in America,” Shoemake said of their belief on resettling in America. “And I think they’re starting to lose faith. And I don’t blame them.”


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/with-english-as-second-language-hefty-hemp-shipment-s-truck/article_0b5b840a-4576-537e-8486-c27cf309f97a.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on February 05, 2019, 12:34:55 pm
I ordered some of these for the OSBI Crime Lab, and I had them take out the scales so they wouldn't confiscate it thinking it was for making meth.

(http://file770.com/wp-content/uploads/576d12a9f2e4e21d485e474299c2ee78.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 05, 2019, 08:23:13 pm
I ordered some of these for the OSBI Crime Lab, and I had them take out the scales so they wouldn't confiscate it thinking it was for making meth.


The Trump administration’s crackdown on marijuana legalization might end under Bill Barr
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/28/18200982/marijuana-legalization-trump-jeff-sessions-william-barr



The first wrinkle in the era of legal hemp comes into focus: Police officers do not appear capable of distinguishing hemp from marijuana.
https://reason.com/blog/2019/01/17/oklahoma-cops-jailed-four-men-for-transp


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 07, 2019, 02:08:03 pm
Osage County prosecutors doubled down Wednesday on their contentions that the massive shipment of plant material seized in Pawhuska nearly a month ago is marijuana, not hemp.

District Attorney Mike Fisher in a news release cited the results of the same federal testing that defense attorneys argue prove the shipment is hemp — perhaps noncompliant hemp — and is not marijuana. Two truck drivers and two security officers are charged with trafficking marijuana, which carries a prison sentence of 15 years to life.

Fisher didn’t respond to Tulsa World requests for clarification on what he is relying upon in distinguishing marijuana from noncompliant hemp or if he considers them to be one and the same.

The applicable state statute used by the District Attorney’s Office to charge the four men defines marijuana as a “mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of marihuana (sic) ... “


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/prosecutors-double-down-on-contention-that-federal-tests-show-seized/article_3c4cae58-4336-541f-83d4-3bdaa2f0598d.htm


Get to work, legislature. SQ788 lacked a Severability Clause that would have overruled older, conflicting laws that police have been citing as the source of their confusion (such as the metabolites are DUI law) but they arent listed here:

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/several-bills-would-change-oklahoma-s-medical-marijuana-law-what/collection_f2465022-cc7c-52e5-af9d-0704b2cccc5f.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 08, 2019, 12:05:45 pm
A Tulsa business owner said he's willing to put up the bail money to get two truck drivers out of the Osage County jail.

Chris Barnett owns a local carpet cleaning business and a marijuana grow operation; he said he's outraged the men are still behind bars.
"I could not believe that these guys were sitting in jail 30 days later," he said. "And it outraged me."
"They've (prosecutors) made a mistake," Barnett said. "Go ahead, suck it up, admit to it and do the right thing."

Barnett is now offering to pay up to get who he feels are two innocent men out of jail.
"I'm hoping that by Friday they're walking out of that jailhouse, and I hope we have them on the way home soon," he said.

But Barnett is asking even more from the Osage County District Attorney.

"I think the District Attorney needs to have them released today, returns their IDs," Barnett said. "Show everyone Oklahoma is better than what's been portrayed."


http://www.newson6.com/story/39928514/tulsa-business-owner-says-pawhuska-police-made-mistake-in-arresting-hemp-transporters


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 08, 2019, 12:31:22 pm


Shoemake said District Attorney Mike Fisher is a “fine man” and as honest a prosecutor as there is in the profession. But Shoemake said he doesn’t understand or even know why the case is being handled in this fashion.




Maybe not as fine as Shoemake says.  This is obvious, blatant violation of Federal law.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 09, 2019, 06:53:00 pm
Pawhuska OR'ed the guys today.   The way they were treated is a disgrace.   Good job, Oklahoma...gonna attract a lot of attention with that one, too!   Sadly, all the wrong attention.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 11, 2019, 11:43:08 pm
Pawhuska OR'ed the guys today.   The way they were treated is a disgrace.   Good job, Oklahoma...gonna attract a lot of attention with that one, too!   Sadly, all the wrong attention.

A prosecutor in the marijuana trafficking case against four hemp transporters purportedly told defense attorneys the state would dismiss the matter if samples tested at 0.5 percent THC or less — but charges remain in place despite a federal analysis finding just that.

Assistant District Attorney Michelle Bodine-Keely told defense attorneys “‘that if the THC level of the hemp is 0.5% or less then we would drop the charges against these guys’ and ‘we would release’ the hemp-merchandise,” according to a defense letter hand-delivered last week to the Osage County District Attorney’s Office.

The conversation reportedly included three defense attorneys and took place Jan. 10, the day after four men were arrested by Pawhuska police and the 9-ton shipment was seized during a traffic stop.

“I am confused as to why you have changed your position and are continuing with prosecuting men that truly could have not had any knowledge that this small margin of error had occurred,” Tulsa defense attorney Paul Brunton said in the letter.

The state statute used by the District Attorney’s Office to charge the four men defines marijuana as a “mixture or substance containing a detectable amount of marihuana,” using an alternative spelling.

“You seem to be convinced that my clients were knowingly and nefariously shipping hemp or, from your perspective, what would amount to be the worst quality of marijuana in the United States to Colorado, a state which grows and cultivates some of the most potent strains of marijuana in the world,” Brunton wrote.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/prosecutor-allegedly-said-samples-at-thc-or-less-would-end/article_6e537f66-13bf-5e85-9e98-d6bf36527582.html

City of Pawhuska fires police chief as OSBI investigation into misconduct continues
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/city-of-pawhuska-fires-police-chief-as-osbi-investigation-into/article_c4853064-47c6-5e20-a69c-29990bce4dce.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 12, 2019, 09:03:05 am

The conversation reportedly included three defense attorneys and took place Jan. 10, the day after four men were arrested by Pawhuska police and the 9-ton shipment was seized during a traffic stop.




But we CAN attract big companies and get good jobs - especially from some of those states that have legalized pot...!!

I still see no hope of us getting better.  We just elected Stitt...plus the rest of the Clown Show in OKC.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 21, 2019, 07:26:30 pm
A House working group has been tidying regulatory framework but overlooking gaping loopholes with conflicting law.

Medical marijuana 'Unity Bill' clears Oklahoma House committee

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/medical-marijuana-unity-bill-clears-oklahoma-house-committee/article_8644cbb4-52c8-58d4-b1f7-3ebfe4ef8d71.html

Currently, Oklahoma has a zero-tolerance law saying that any positive test for THC, the psychoactive component in marijuana, or its metabolites is considered driving under the influence. The language of SQ788 fails to exempt licensed patients from that law, nor does it provide a legal limit for THC in the blood while operating a vehicle.
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/medical-marijuana-vote-spurs-concerns-about-impaired-driving-issue-not/article_06d9ed0a-20a0-5218-81d3-9ad7b1e8131b.html

47 OS § 11-902 says a person is DUI if they have any amount of a Schedule I or other controlled substance or one of its metabolites or analog in their blood, saliva, urine or any other bodily fluid at the time.
http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=439901

Poppy seed bagel for breakfast?  Busted.  Feeling anxiety during a traffic stop?  Endorphans are morphene.  Busted.

Everybody is Guilty Under Oklahoma’s Zero-tolerance Metabolite DUI-D Law
https://www.wirthlawoffice.com/tulsa-attorney-blog/2013/10/everybody-guilty-oklahomas-zero-tolerance-metabolite-dui-d-law


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 22, 2019, 09:44:37 pm
The crew apparently stuck around for hours working with the various officials trying to work this out, which I assume would have included calls to both the supplier and customer, but were still arrested.

What's telling to me is that they were offered the chance to leave, but authorities wanted to keep the truck.   If were not about forfeiture, the cops could have simply recorded everything, taken a sample of load, and sent them on their way.  Charges could be pressed later, if needed. But then the locals don't have the truck to sell later.

There is no way a law enforcement person could possibly think that was actual marijuana for distribution. I mean, look at it.  At "best", they may have thought they could gin something up related to the THC content not testing low enough, but that's a stretch.   They just wanted to keep the truck, or they are complete idiots, or both.


PAWHUSKA — Osage County’s district attorney dropped the marijuana trafficking case against two drivers of a hemp shipment seized in Pawhuska, but the security personnel who accompanied them continue to face prosecution.

“We have an individual grower who was from the state of Kentucky, who’s not licensed in the state of Oklahoma, who has not conformed with our laws. And federal law provides us some control over that,” Osage County District Attorney Mike Fisher said in reference to his stance that the cannabis material is not legal hemp, which requires no special transport licensing.
The Agriculture Improvement Act of 2018, more commonly known as the Farm Bill, removed hemp from the Controlled Substances Act effective in December; it does not impose prohibitions on transport or shipment of hemp across state lines.

Attorney Matt Lyons, who represents Ross and Dirksen, contends the two had the appropriate paperwork to help monitor the shipment until its end destination. The U.S. military service veterans now face charges, he said, that carry between 15 years and life imprisonment.

All 60 samples in the truck were tested by Redlands University here in the state of Oklahoma, and those results were the reason we chose to proceed,” Fisher said.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/da-persists-with-marijuana-trafficking-case-upon-new-test-results/article_8c2af5b2-912d-5d08-91ab-a6ffdbe1163c.html

Prosecutor lied about THC tests
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/district-attorney-hangs-marijuana-trafficking-case-on-testing-that-college/article_7f4097fd-87a9-5010-96d7-cfa45ec6f3aa.html


Prosecutors to drop marijuana-trafficking charges against two hemp security officers, according to defense attorney

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/prosecutors-to-drop-marijuana-trafficking-charges-against-two-hemp-security/article_919ebb4b-a679-578c-a356-440f98c26aaa.html
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/da-drops-marijuana-trafficking-case-in-pawhuska-amid-ongoing-questions/article_adc2f17b-d224-51a9-97d3-df294e2787d4.html

In a nutshell, Osage County District Attorney Mike Fisher wants to look generous by dismissing the 7-month old case (and he he wont have to defend his actions in front of a judge).

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/prosecutors-double-down-on-contention-that-federal-tests-show-seized/article_3c4cae58-4336-541f-83d4-3bdaa2f0598d.html


Fisher's case began to fall apart when he refused to go public with real facts. Facts like who actually tested the evidence and what types of testing were done. Fisher told Tulsa Radio KFAQ the "Redlands University" provided the test results. But there is no such entity as a university called 'Redlands'.
https://www.soonerpolitics.org/editorial/pawhuska-hemp-prosecution-falls-apart


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 17, 2019, 11:22:06 am
A complaint filed in federal court alleges that a Farm Service Agency official in Oklahoma has been lying to and threatening farmers who express interest in growing hemp under an official state program.

In place since April 2018, the Oklahoma Industrial Hemp Pilot Program was established to allow for crop research while the product was still considered an illegal drug under the federal Controlled Substances Schedule. The U.S. Farm Bill, signed late last year, removed hemp from the schedule, ensuring farming and commerce could proceed without the threat of federal prosecution as long as the product does not exceed 0.3% THC.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/federal-lawsuit-alleges-official-is-lying-to-farmers-to-deter/article_ccf94c68-2dde-57cf-8f9b-e889d3805295.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 20, 2019, 12:34:59 pm

Meet some of the patients whose lives changed as 90,000 Oklahomans have gotten medical marijuana licenses
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/for-meet-some-of-the-patients-whose-lives-changed-as/article_7c1a3c1e-3865-527c-a525-5f5cb3c61005.html


Oklahoma governor signs bill for commercial hemp production
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/oklahoma-governor-signs-bill-for-commercial-hemp-production/article_f19677cd-5851-554c-8e7a-10834192d10d.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on April 20, 2019, 11:11:18 pm
Oklahoma has a Governor who likes schwag weed now, eh?  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 21, 2019, 03:18:26 pm
Oklahoma has a Governor who likes schwag weed now, eh?  ;D


We like our "businessmen" politicians crooked and dirty, so he fits right in!!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 25, 2019, 12:55:14 pm
Shocking headline:

Many drivers who test positive for marijuana have a child in the car, survey finds
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/many-drivers-who-test-positive-marijuana-have-child-car-survey-n998496


now the fine print:

The study does not show, however, how many of the drivers were impaired as having THC in the blood doesn’t mean a person is high, acknowledged Eichelberger.
"Cannabis is unique among all drugs as it is detectable for weeks after exposure, so a positive test might only indicate that a person was exposed weeks prior to the test and so it is unlikely that the presence of THC in their system has any influence on their current ability to drive a car.”  @metabolites


https://www.newsweek.com/cannabis-washington-state-driving-1403398


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 08, 2019, 04:00:59 pm
Oklahoma medical marijuana sales top $18 million in April; 104,000 patients licensed

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/oklahoma-medical-marijuana-sales-top-million-in-april-patients-licensed/article_7db623b8-a968-5c00-a267-9ae93a9e7ef2.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 09, 2019, 08:29:38 pm
Woman arrested for bringing doctor-recommended CBD oil to Disney World
https://mashable.com/article/woman-arrested-cbd-oil-disney-world/

Hester Burkhalter, 69, was arrested on Apr. 15 and charged with felony possession of hashish. The Tampa Bay Times reports that Burkhalter was stopped at a bag check just outside of Magic Kingdom that morning, and Disney security found her 1-ounce bottle of peppermint-flavored CBD tincture. In photos obtained by Orlando's Fox 35, the bottle is labeled as 1000 mg of CBD and 0 mg of THC.

The police report, as seen in Fox 35's video, shows the police officer used a presumptive test on Burkhalter's CBD tincture. Presumptive tests can't specify a substance, but indicate the possibility of its presence. In this case, the test turned red, which indicated that THC might have been present. While presumptive tests are cheaper and yield faster results, they can be inaccurate and give false positives. The FDA recommends using confirmatory testing, which is more costly and takes longer but can "obtain a confirmed analytical result" by identifying specific substances
.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 13, 2019, 07:06:03 pm
A Tulsa attorney said he plans to sue after Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt signed a bill requiring commercial medical cannabis licensees to work with a waste disposal company when they need to discard certain products.

Stitt on Thursday signed Senate Bill 882, called the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Waste Management Act, which establishes policies for applying for and obtaining a medical marijuana waste disposal license. The act allows for the issuance of 10 waste disposal licenses, which will cost $5,000 each.



Its marijuana, folks, not plutonium.



https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/01/why-does-the-mafia-get-involved-in-hauling-garbage.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 14, 2019, 11:15:05 am
A Tulsa attorney said he plans to sue after Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt signed a bill requiring commercial medical cannabis licensees to work with a waste disposal company when they need to discard certain products.

Stitt on Thursday signed Senate Bill 882, called the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Waste Management Act, which establishes policies for applying for and obtaining a medical marijuana waste disposal license. The act allows for the issuance of 10 waste disposal licenses, which will cost $5,000 each.



Its marijuana, folks, not plutonium.



https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2008/01/why-does-the-mafia-get-involved-in-hauling-garbage.html


How else to get their piece of the pie...?   Graft and corruption.  Not just the American Way, it's the Oklahoma Way!!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 08, 2019, 07:08:27 pm
To date, medical marijuana sales have generated nearly $10.7 million for state coffers.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/medical-marijuana-sales-soaring-in-oklahoma-top-m-in-may/article_2d2ee6e1-4962-558e-9fa5-2c41e66f5b7e.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DTowner on June 12, 2019, 03:50:02 pm
This recent study disputes the legalizers’ claim that medical marijuana reduced opioid overdoses.  Apparently several states recently made changes to law based on an earlier study that this study directly refutes.  It seems everyone would be wise to remember very few claims for or against medical cannabis have much scientific support because very few legitimate studies have been conducted.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190610151933.htm



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 12, 2019, 05:51:50 pm
This recent study disputes the legalizers’ claim that medical marijuana reduced opioid overdoses.  Apparently several states recently made changes to law based on an earlier study that this study directly refutes.  It seems everyone would be wise to remember very few claims for or against medical cannabis have much scientific support because very few legitimate studies have been conducted.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/06/190610151933.htm

We can thank prohibition for blocking a lot of those studies. Self-fulfilling...


On the other hand, doctors wrote fewer opioid prescriptions in states where medical marijuana was a legal alternative.

Lower rates of opioid prescriptions in states that implemented medical cannabis use laws

GALVESTON, Texas – Using data from privately-insured adults, new findings from The University of Texas Medical Branch at Galveston revealed that there is a lower level of opioids prescribed in states that have allowed the use of medical marijuana. The findings are currently available in Preventive Medicine.
https://www.utmb.edu/newsroom/article12119.aspx


https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091743519301860


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 17, 2019, 03:30:59 pm
Cannabis patient whose seeds were seized by Oklahoma trooper on 'LivePD' may get them back, official says

Crews from the A&E TV show “LivePD” filmed an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper seizing cannabis seeds from a licensed patient in what could be a misapplication of state law and Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority rules.

Video footage posted on Facebook by Michael Hennessee of an episode that aired Wednesday shows Trooper Mystal Perkins interacting with a man on Interstate 240 between South May Avenue and South Pennsylvania Avenue in Oklahoma City. During the conversation, Perkins can be heard telling the unidentified motorist, “This can get you in trouble, alright?” after observing the man had cannabis plant seeds.

The traffic stop, which appeared to be for a motor violation, took place just east of Oklahoma City Community College.

“Cause it’s not packaged like you know you have the other ones in the actual container and all that,” Perkins can be heard saying. “When this is like this, you see where we’re like ‘Why do you have it like that?’ Do you see why we get suspicious?”

Dispensaries have packaging requirements, but nothing in state law requires patients to transport marijuana or marijuana products in specific packaging.

The man’s responses are not clear in the Facebook video, but he responds “I don’t know” when Perkins asks whether he plans to plant the seeds.

“You don’t know. Well, I’ll tell you what, this is what I’m gonna do. I’m going to take these,” Perkins said of the small baggie of seeds, adding: “Because they’re not packaged like they should be, OK. And right back here on your (medical marijuana patient) card, it says you can have six mature plants. That’s a lot more than six in there.

“And then you have to have a license to even grow it, did you know that?”

The language of State Question 788 and governing rules from the OMMA, the supervising agency over the state’s medical cannabis program, appear to contain no restrictions on patients possessing seeds.

The OMMA does not require patients to obtain a separate license to cultivate cannabis at home, and neither Oklahoma City nor Oklahoma County are among the municipalities that ask residents to register and pay a fee if they intend to grow their own cannabis.

“They’re regulating that stuff, and honestly it’s pretty new to us, too, but there’s been all kinds of people up at the Capitol and stuff about trying to grow it and all that,” Perkins tells the motorist during the stop.

Sarah Stewart, a spokeswoman for the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety, said Thursday morning that the agency is aware of the situation and officials “are still working through the intricacies of the new law.”

“I want to point out that this man will have the opportunity to get those seeds back after it goes through a certain process,” Stewart said. “It’s no different than anything else that is seized on a traffic stop. Those seeds will not be destroyed.”

In a Sept. 5 tweet, the OMMA said no state agency will supply seeds and that “medical marijuana license holders must determine on their own how to obtain seeds at this point.” The man in the video seems to indicate to the trooper that the seeds she seized had been pulled from cannabis flower he legally purchased.

Sales of cannabis products at dispensaries became legal as of Oct. 26, as did possession of mature plants by patients and businesses. Seedlings were legal to possess in Oklahoma as of Sept. 3.

Licensed patients are legally allowed to have up to six seedling plants and six mature, or flowering, plants at one time, according to state law. They can also have up to 8 ounces of cannabis at their residences and up to 3 ounces in their possession, along with certain amounts of cannabis in concentrate form.

House Bill 2612, which will take effect in late August, expands on the laws created by the passage of SQ 788. While it implements seed-to-sale tracking requirements for commercial entities, those do not apply to homegrow operations.

OMMA emergency rules, which remain in effect through the summer, include seeds in the definition of “marijuana.” However, seeds and seedlings — plants without flowers — are not considered “plant material” by OMMA’s definitions.

Proposed permanent rules from the OMMA also do not place a cap on the number of seeds that are legal for licensed patients to possess.

The Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control established its own emergency rules for medical cannabis businesses, which then-Gov. Mary Fallin signed into law in early January. But in a notice on the OBNDD’s website, it says those rules do not apply to licensed patients because patients do not have to register with the department before possessing cannabis.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/cannabis-patient-whose-seeds-were-seized-by-oklahoma-trooper-on/article_b841e085-b82e-5764-b9c3-ceddc05a9a7a.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 27, 2019, 09:30:36 am
Seized marijuana returned to Enid dispensary after charges dismissed

GUTHRIE — After finding 21 pounds of marijuana during a traffic stop early June 4, suspicious Logan County sheriff deputies arrested the driver and passenger despite their repeated protests they were delivering for a dispensary.

Daniel Richard Arthur, 40, and Rebecca J. Davis, 40, were both charged the same day with felonies, unlawful possession of a controlled dangerous substances with intent to distribute and conspiracy.

On Thursday, though, prosecutors dropped all charges and authorized the release of the seized marijuana, plus $5,400 in cash, to their defense attorney, Tyler Box.

Box said the the defendants were transporting the marijuana in June on Interstate 35 from The House of Cannabis Dispensary in Enid to a dispensary in Edmond. He said the marijuana — valued at $55,000 — was being returned Thursday to the Enid business.

"We would certainly graciously accept an apology from the sheriff, but we have something better than that, and that's the satisfaction of knowing we're getting the medicine back in the hands of the people that need it," Box said.
 "I'm not sure that it is a panacea for the concern that we're trying to address right now which is local law enforcement picking folks up and deciding this can't be legal."


https://oklahoman.com/article/5637127/seized-marijuana-returned-to-enid-dispensary-after-charges-dismissed


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 03, 2019, 09:17:24 pm
Lawmaker asks for delay implementing law that would make 'all information' on medical marijuana patient licenses available to law enforcement

A law that takes effect later this month has a provision allowing the Oklahoma State Department of Health to give law enforcement access to information displayed on medical marijuana patient licenses. But amid concerns about privacy and possible legal conflicts, a leading state lawmaker said he asked for a delay on implementation and expects the clause could be removed during the next legislative session.

Senate Bill 1030, whose primary author was Sen. Lonnie Paxton, R-Tuttle, will become law Aug. 29. It establishes protocols for officers to issue citations for those in possession of marijuana who can cite a medical condition but do not have a license. It also defines what would be considered an “undue change or restriction of municipal zoning laws” for municipalities when they receive applications for medical marijuana businesses.

But the section that concerns patient advocates Lawrence Pasternack and Norma Sapp is a clause that states the OSDH shall make available “all information” shown on patient licenses to law enforcement through the Oklahoma Law Enforcement Telecommunications System, or OLETS.

Sapp and Pasternack, along with Chris Moe, recently formed the Oklahoma Cannabis Liberty Alliance advocacy organization and said they considered the bill one of their highest priorities for legislative changes. They called the provision “just about the worst thing that could possibly happen” for the state’s medical cannabis program, and Pasternack said it was “absurd” to give law enforcement access to information related in any way to patients’ health.

The OKCLA contends the bill in its current language opens the door for police using OLETS, which is used for interstate, intrastate and interagency criminal justice purposes, to tie patients’ cardholder statuses to their vehicle tags or driver’s licenses.

Oklahoma law considers a person to be in the commission of a DUI if there is any amount of a schedule I substance or its metabolites in their system, regardless of whether they are actively intoxicated. Sapp said, to her, that in effect means medical cannabis users will face legal risks each time they drive because “marijuana” is still included in the state’s legal definition of schedule I substances.

“That creates a problematic situation for law enforcement to know that person is a cardholder,” Pasternack said. “That should have been fixed last session, but it wasn’t. We’ve spoken with lawmakers who plan to fix it this coming session. But in the meantime, any cardholder or anyone just using hemp is violating the law when they’re behind the wheel.”


House Majority Floor Leader Jon Echols, R-Oklahoma City, said the intent of SB 1030 was for officers to have a way to verify the validity of patient IDs in person upon viewing a patient’s 24-digit ID code. He said he believed the current wording was “very confusing” and told the Tulsa World he asked the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority and the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety to hold off on establishing any data transfer at least until the next legislative session in February.

“I think we’re going to repeal that specific provision in its entirety,” Echols said, adding that at least some other lawmakers have expressed agreement on the issue. “I think it was never the goal that if you were pulled over in another state that information would be there. At a minimum, the law is in conflict.”

The Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority’s website states the agency is “currently evaluating implementation timelines” for making information accessible in OLETS. In a statement Friday, the OMMA said the health department is working with DPS “to balance privacy concerns regarding patient information as outlined in State Question 788 and the statutory obligation under SB 1030” to share data with law enforcement.

Echols said the information in question has not been shared with law enforcement entities as of Friday. DPS spokeswoman Sarah Stewart told the World via email that “we do not have much involvement in this other than we will actually be the store house for the data” and referred further questions to OSDH interim commissioner Tom Bates.

“Nothing in the law requires that information to be tied either to a driver’s license or the (license) plate itself,” he said. “There is nothing that requires OMMA or DPS under the law right now to do that. They have received very explicit direction from Rep. (Scott) Fetgatter, (R-Okmulgee) and myself at least that it is not the intent.”

Sapp said other portions of SB 1030 emphasize the importance of patient privacy and is hopeful the Oklahoma Attorney General’s Office will issue an opinion outlining the duties of the OSDH and the OMMA.

“I’m not a lawyer, but it’s pretty clear: They are supposed to keep that private. If they gave that whole database to the OLETS system, it won’t be,” she said. A spokesman for Attorney General Mike Hunter’s office said the department hasn’t received any requests for an attorney general opinion related to SB 1030 as of Friday afternoon.

Echols noted lawmakers were able to roll out a medical cannabis framework faster than other states and said “you’re gonna have some hiccups” while trying to meet quick deadlines such as those written in SQ 788. However, he pointed out the OMMA already maintains a website where people can enter a patient’s ID code to determine whether a license is valid, which would likely render the provision in SB 1030 unnecessary.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/lawmaker-asks-for-delay-implementing-law-that-would-make-all/article_feca5618-5f63-5ae8-8d7c-ee9177489b18.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 06, 2019, 10:44:42 pm
Attorney suing OMMA, DPS says potential of police accessing medical marijuana patient data 'brands' cardholders with a 'scarlet letter'

The owners of a Tulsa medical cannabis clinic are among the plaintiffs in a newly filed lawsuit that seeks to block information on patient licenses from appearing in a law enforcement database.
A petition filed Monday in Tulsa County District Court states there is “an ambiguity” within the language of Senate Bill 1030 that puts licensed medical cannabis patients at risk of having their cardholder status wrongly disclosed to police.

Tulsa attorney Ron Durbin filed suit on behalf of Tulsa Higher Care Clinic Inc., a medical cannabis health care facility, as well as 11 people including Norma Sapp, who helped form the Oklahoma Cannabis Liberty Alliance nonprofit patient advocacy group.

SB 1030, which will become law Aug. 29, has a clause directing the Oklahoma State Department of Health to make available “all information” shown on marijuana licenses through the Oklahoma Law Enforcement Telecommunications System, or OLETS. The OSDH oversees the OMMA.
That provision, according to Durbin, does not make an adequate distinction between business licenses and patient licenses, which creates a privacy concern for the more than 170,000 licensed patients in Oklahoma. Nor, Durbin said, is the requirement consistent with other sections of SB 1030 that stress the importance of privacy.
“Patient information is not part of what was supposed to be disclosed to OLETS and law enforcement,” Durbin said. “What they intended to be disclosed was business license information. What this bill does, by allowing patient information to be released, is it essentially brands every medical marijuana patient license holder with a scarlet letter in the state of Oklahoma.”

He argued cardholder status could single patients out for what he called “disparate treatment” and asks for all licensed patients to be legally declared a class for litigation purposes. The lawsuit also requests a legal interpretation regarding which types of licenses fall under the requirement for disclosure in OLETS and an injunction preventing the OMMA and OSDH from sharing patient license information without a court order.
“I’m asking that when I get pulled over, the police don’t already know that I’m a medical marijuana patient,” said Whitney Wehmeyer, a co-owner of the Tulsa Higher Care Clinic. “Not that I have shame for it, but there aren’t people that get tagged for using opiates.”

Oklahoma law considers motorists to be in the commission of driving under the influence of drugs if they have any amount of a schedule 1 substance or its metabolites in their system. Despite hemp recently becoming federally legal, state law continues to define “marihuana” and metabolites such as THC as a schedule 1 drug, which Sapp said Friday means to her that patients could be targeted for DUI arrests based on prior knowledge of cardholder status.

House Majority Floor Leader Jon Echols, R-Oklahoma City, said Friday that the bill was supposed to give officers a method of verifying the validity of patient IDs in person when they see a card and 24-digit ID code. He said although the current wording of SB 1030 was “very confusing,” “nothing in the law requires” the transfer of cannabis patient data into OLETS.

Echols told the Tulsa World that he and Rep. Scott Fetgatter, R-Okmulgee, asked the OMMA and DPS to delay a data transfer at least until the next legislative session, during which Echols expected the clause to be repealed. But the OMMA’s website as of Monday afternoon lists SB 1030 as being among upcoming legislation that affects patients, with the agency writing it was “currently evaluating implementation timelines” for making information available in the OLETS system.

The OMMA released a statement Friday indicating it was working with DPS “to balance privacy concerns regarding patient information as outlined in State Question 788” with its “statutory obligation under SB 1030” to make the data available to police.
Durbin said the data in OLETS can be accessed by agencies inside and outside of Oklahoma, which he also believes constitutes a violation of the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, or HIPAA, if patient statuses are released.

He wrote that SB 1030 amended House Bill 2612, a medical cannabis regulatory framework that also takes effect Aug. 29, to say that the handling of records in the OMMA’s patient and caregiver registry shall comply with HIPAA and other relevant laws.

“It’s not something they do in any other state in the United States,” Wehmeyer said of the proposal. “I don’t think necessarily that this (sharing patient data) was the intention. I think it’s poor writing and poor language, but either way, that still affects me as a patient. Right? The fact that you all got it wrong still affects me.”


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/attorney-suing-omma-dps-says-potential-of-police-accessing-medical/article_417486e7-3a43-5c93-91b9-78572f7354fa.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 10, 2019, 05:48:40 pm
Tulsa World editorial: Police don't need free access to Oklahomans' medical records

https://www.tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorials/tulsa-world-editorial-police-don-t-need-free-access-to/article_3aae39c6-8467-5e14-8e80-c502d5883dae.html


One nightmare scenario -- that could happen very soon -- would be if a cop running an ALPR license plate scanner was using the Oklahoma Law Enforcement Telecommunications System database to stop any motorist who has a medical marijuana license, knowing that he could arrest that motorist for DUI based solely on the expectation of finding residual metabolites in their system. 

Oklahoma law considers motorists to be in the commission of driving under the influence of drugs if they have any amount of a schedule 1 substance or its metabolites in their system. Despite hemp recently becoming federally legal, state law continues to define “marihuana” and metabolites such as THC as a schedule 1 drug, which means that patients could be targeted for DUI arrests based on prior knowledge of cardholder status.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 23, 2019, 10:29:08 am
"In the post-decriminalization era, the mere odor of marijuana coupled with possession of what is clearly less than ten grams of marijuana, absent other circumstances, does not grant officers probable cause to effectuate an arrest and conduct a search incident thereto," the court stated in the ruling.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/457700-marylands-top-court-rules-that-police-cant-search-a-person-based
https://www.courts.state.md.us/data/opinions/coa/2019/17a18.pdf

There's one primary obstacle to changing federal laws to allow legal marijuana. And that obstacle's name is Sen. Mitch McConnell.
https://www.fool.com/investing/2019/08/18/heres-how-shockingly-low-the-odds-of-us-marijuana.aspx


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 21, 2020, 06:13:08 pm
Medical marijuana advocate, Rogers County sheriff reach settlement in lawsuit

A lawsuit filed by medical marijuana advocate “Chip” Paul against Rogers County Sheriff Scott Walton after he was forcibly removed from a public forum has been settled.
“A court-ordered settlement conference was held on Friday and the county’s insurance company and the plaintiff reached a confidential solution,” Walton said, reading from a prepared statement.

Paul was attending a public forum on State Question 788, which called for legalizing medical marijuana, June 18, 2018, at the Claremore Conference Center when Walton grabbed him around his neck with both hands and forcibly walked him out of the building.
Paul claimed in his lawsuit that he was sitting quietly, talking to his wife privately about what he claimed was inaccurate information being presented at the forum when Walton “got in the plaintiff’s face” and yelled at him to be quiet or get out.

After telling Walton that he would be quiet, Paul claims the sheriff grabbed him by his neck and physically removed him, slamming his head into a door in the process.

Paul initially filed the lawsuit June 20 in Rogers County District Court. It was later moved to federal court at the request of Rogers County officials.
In his state court petition, Paul claimed unlawful seizure, retaliation for engaging in First Amendment rights and violation of free speech, as well as assault and battery by Walton.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/medical-marijuana-advocate-rogers-county-sheriff-reach-settlement-in-lawsuit/article_e25ab379-0bac-5729-80c2-d8462004f6b8.html

(https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/5e/f5e00291-22d7-544a-87a4-2fad913f1ed8/5b29101445f2f.image.jpg?resize=900%2C700)



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 27, 2020, 08:57:47 pm
A bill before the legislature attempts to close a legal loophole that allows sober Medical Marijuana cardholders to be arrested for DUI based solely on the expectation that Metabolites would be detected in their system days or weeks after consuming marijuana.


HOUSE BILL 3960

" ...no person shall be convicted of the offense of operating or being in actual physical control of a motor vehicle while such

person's ability to operate such vehicle was impaired by marijuana, THC, or their metabolites, excluding 11-nor-9-carboxy-

delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol, or derivatives in the absence of additional evidence that such person's ability to operate such

vehicle was affected to a degree that the person was rendered substantially incapable, either mentally or physically by

marijuana, THC, or their metabolites, excluding 11-nor-9-carboxy-delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol, or derivatives to the extent

that the public health and safety was threatened or that said person violated a state statute or local ordinance in the

operation of a motor vehicle."



11-COOH-THC has a long half-life in the body of up to several days (or even weeks in very heavy users), making it the main metabolite tested for blood or urine testing for cannabis use. More selective tests are able to distinguish between 11-OH-THC and 11-COOH-THC, which can help determine how recently cannabis was consumed; if only 11-COOH-THC is present then cannabis was used some time ago and any impairment in cognitive ability or motor function will have dissipated, whereas if both 11-OH-THC and 11-COOH-THC are present then cannabis was consumed more recently and motor impairment may still be present.

Some jurisdictions where cannabis use is decriminalized or permitted under some circumstances use such tests when determining whether drivers were legally intoxicated and therefore unfit to drive, with the comparative levels of THC, 11-OH-THC and 11-COOH-THC being used to derive a "blood cannabis level" analogous to the blood alcohol level used in prosecuting impaired drivers. On the other hand, in jurisdictions where cannabis is completely illegal, any detectable levels of 11-COOH-THC may be deemed to constitute driving while intoxicated, even though this approach has been criticized as tantamount to prohibition of
"driving whilst being a recent user of cannabis" regardless of the presence or absence of any actual impairment that might impact driving performance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/11-Nor-9-carboxy-THC

On the other end, the law allows for anyone "who received training and holds a current certification as a drug recognition expert shall be qualified to give the testimony in any case in which such testimony may be relevant" without the need to provide any supporting evidence. Basically, it leaves open the likelihood of abuse and conflicts of interest:
https://www.11alive.com/article/news/investigations/the-drug-whisperer-drivers-arrested-while-stone-cold-sober/85-437061710


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 23, 2020, 08:39:56 pm
Stitt rejects medical marijuana bill that received near-unanimous support

Efforts to amend laws for the state’s medical marijuana industry could be unsuccessful this year after the Oklahoma Legislature opted Friday not to override Gov. Kevin Stitt’s veto of a bipartisan bill containing program reforms.

House Bill 3228 from Rep. Jon Echols, R-Oklahoma City, would have barred the Oklahoma State Department of Health from sharing patient and caregiver records with other state agencies or political subdivisions, including law enforcement, without a court order.


https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/stitt-rejects-medical-marijuana-bill-that-received-near-unanimous-support-veto-override-appears-unlikely/article_ec04bfcc-8e22-5eb9-9ea3-6f060740cfc4.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 26, 2020, 04:04:11 pm
Yeah....we're gonna get Tesla....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 30, 2020, 12:13:41 pm
Oklahoma’s program has generated a hefty amount of tax revenue while avoiding some of the pitfalls of more intensely regulated programs. Through the first 10 months of this year, the industry generated more than $105 million in state and local taxes. That’s more than the $73 million expected to be produced by the state lottery this fiscal year, though still a pittance in comparison to the overall state budget of nearly $8 billion. In addition, Oklahoma has largely escaped the biggest problems that have plagued many other state markets: Illegal sales are relatively rare and the low cost to entry has made corruption all but unnecessary.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/11/27/toke-lahoma-cannabis-market-oklahoma-red-state-weed-legalization-437782




It’s been a long, strange trip for Oklahoma’s $2.6 million shipment of hydroxychloroquine, bought a year ago as a once-promising treatment for COVID-19.
The 1.2 million doses of the drug normally used to treat lupus, rheumatoid arthritis and prevent malaria were shipped from a California distributor to a small pharmacy in Pryor, with the state paying for the hydroxychloroquine from money borrowed from fees generated by medical marijuana licenses.


https://oklahomawatch.org/2021/04/16/oklahomas-hydroxychloroquine-shipment-took-a-detour-to-a-pryor-pharmacy/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 16, 2021, 10:44:35 am
Lawsuit filed over state's medical marijuana 'seed-to-sale' tracking system

A Tulsa-based attorney filed suit Thursday on behalf of an Okmulgee County medical cannabis business in hopes of pausing use of the state’s “seed-to-sale” tracking system, alleging that the state’s chosen vendor charges unreasonable fees that could lead to increased prices for patients.

Ron Durbin II, the attorney, and Beau Zoellner, who operates a processing site in Okmulgee County for the Dr. Z Leaf business chain, allege that the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority allowed a monopoly when it selected Florida-based Metrc as its seed-to-sale tracking provider last year.

Seed-to-sale tracking is a term that generally refers to the practice of electronically documenting progress from the day a cannabis seed is planted to when whatever it yields is sold.

“The OMMA has essentially forced Oklahoma patients and Oklahoma businesses to send $15 million from the state of Oklahoma to this Florida company all because they’ve given Metrc a monopoly,” Durbin said during a press conference.

The complaint argues that the Legislature did not mandate that dispensaries use a seed-to-sale tracking system from a specific vendor and did not expressly direct the use of RFID tags to keep track of inventory and sales.

The complaint additionally argues that the State Health Department breached administrative procedure obligations by choosing Metrc without adequate community input and seeks more information on how state officials have allocated tax revenue collected from legal cannabis sales.


https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/watch-now-lawsuit-filed-over-states-medical-marijuana-seed-to-sale-tracking-system/article_35e26f04-9e20-11eb-a5fb-33bff8744afe.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 27, 2021, 10:58:16 am
An appellate court’s opinion that the odor of cannabis establishes probable cause for criminal activity has some, including at least one state lawmaker, concerned about law enforcement going forward.

Rep. Scott Fetgatter, R-Okmulgee, said the ruling related to a 2019 Tulsa County traffic stop “goes to show Oklahoma still has a long way to go in working on regulations for the legal medical marijuana industry.”

The Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals last week reversed a decision made in the case of Brandon James Roberson, who was arrested after police found evidence in his SUV that supported a warrant to search the motel room he used. He was charged with trafficking after quantities of multiple drugs were found in the room.

A district court judge agreed with Roberson’s defense that his disclosure to officers about having “possibly half a joint” was not enough probable cause of illegal activity, considering Oklahoma has licensed nearly 400,000 medical marijuana patients.

Overturning that logic in a unanimous ruling, the appellate court determined Oklahoma’s legal medical cannabis program “in no way affects a police officer’s formation of probable cause based upon the presence or odor of marijuana.”

Fetgatter said he’s concerned for patients with that phrasing appearing in case law.

“When 10% of your population has a medical marijuana card, we know that a lot of cars are going to have the smell of at least unburned marijuana,” he said Friday.

Elected in 2016, Fetgatter has been trying to update laws that address driving under the influence of drugs. As of now the presence of any Schedule I substance or its metabolites in blood or bodily fluid can, according to state law, be proof that a person is in the commission of DUI. That includes THC, which can stay in the system weeks after use.

“Even though the law is changed, you still have a cultural aspect that has to be overcome,” Fetgatter said. “And the unfortunate problem we have with our medical program is people are still doing things illegally, and until that stops and people can see the value in having the program — a medical program — it’s going to just take some time.”

He said law enforcement officers he’s spoken to have seemed less interested in prioritizing enforcement of cannabis-related activities since the passage of State Question 788.

The appellate court ruling, however, has one of the leaders of Oklahoma Cannabis Liberty Alliance concerned about a sea change. Lawrence Pasternack, a patient advocate, said in his view the ruling could in practice “basically nullify the significance of a card for the determination of a search.”

Roberson’s defense said it appeared Tulsa Police never attempted to ascertain his patient status or that of the passenger in his SUV, which they had pulled over near an east Tulsa hotel for a seatbelt violation and an expired tag. Officer Chris Beyerl cited an odor of “raw marijuana” as reason for a search, the findings of which allowed police to obtain a search warrant for their motel room.

In its opinion, the appellate court pointed to the odor, along with Roberson’s past legal history and reported affiliation with the Irish Mob gang, as part of the “totality of circumstances” that merited the vehicle search. Pasternack acknowledged those factors but said the court’s overbroad language could affect patients unduly.

“There might be future court cases that narrow the scope of what this court has determined,” Pasternack said Thursday. “Prior to this ruling, someone who could produce a (patient) card would have sufficient reason to be released. But the ruling does suggest that being able to produce a card has no bearing on whether or not law enforcement wants to pursue a search. And that’s worrisome.

“Having marijuana in the context of a state that’s legalized it for medical purposes, possession should no longer be construed as an indicator of further criminal activity.”

The Tulsa County Public Defender’s Office declined to comment on potential impacts of the ruling. However, it argued in court documents that police erred because Roberson had resisted efforts to search his SUV and claimed the traffic stop was pretext to profile him due to his past and his use of a motel in a “high-crime area.”

Tulsa Police have not yet returned a request seeking comment about the court ruling. Sarah Stewart, a spokeswoman with the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety, said Friday the agency would not comment but that an Oklahoma Highway Patrol leader indicated the ruling “affirms exactly what we do today.”

For those without a patient card who can cite a medical condition, state law indicates the penalty for cannabis possession consists of a fine but no jail time. Others can still be subject to jail time because of laws created following the passage of State Question 780, Fetgatter said.

“(My adult use bill) is still eligible to be heard next session, but there is no appetite in my opinion in the Legislature to run an adult use bill until we can rein in the nefarious activity going on within our rural communities with the medical program,” he said, referencing a series of recent Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics raids.

“To be clear, an adult use program does not fix the issue of people being pulled over with the smell of burned or unburned marijuana in their car. That’s going to have to be something that’s addressed in DUI laws, which is something I’ve tried to work on in the past and I actually received a lot of pushback on from industry activists.”

In a brief concurrence in Roberson’s case, Judge Robert Hudson said the “admitted presence or odor” of cannabis “must remain a factor indicating criminal activity” despite state law allowing medical use. But Tulsa-based attorney Ron Durbin, who has multiple clients in the cannabis industry, said he worries the opinion is written broadly enough that it can be used to argue the smell or presence of cannabis is, on its own, a sign of a crime occurring.

“(Legalized marijuana) is now in most states,” Durbin said. “We’re gonna have to allow people to use marijuana the same way they use prescription medicine. Until then, we can’t kill the stigma and we’re going to continue to treat it differently than any other normal medication, which is exactly what happened in the opinion.”

Durbin said he would advise medical marijuana patients to store cannabis items in their trunk and keep their patient license easily accessible, which Fetgatter also advised. Durbin said the ruling makes clear Oklahoma’s need to reform drunken driving laws to more clearly state the presence or odor of cannabis is not proof of a crime when a medical card is present.


https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/oklahoma-lawmaker-among-those-concerned-for-marijuana-patients-after-recent-court-ruling/article_19cc7020-d503-11eb-b6a4-db0db029e886.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on June 27, 2021, 01:02:13 pm
I think this putz Brandon James Roberson, got fingered as a dealer by someone else TPD arrested and was under surveillance. Sounds like he's trying to use "medical marijuana" as a get out of jail card.

I would tend to think this is the reason they got a warrant for his motel room. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 27, 2021, 02:21:05 pm
I think this putz Brandon James Roberson, got fingered as a dealer by someone else TPD arrested and was under surveillance. Sounds like he's trying to use "medical marijuana" as a get out of jail card.

I would tend to think this is the reason they got a warrant for his motel room. 

The rub is them using the presence of marijuana as a pretext with no concern as to its current legal status. 
“Having marijuana in the context of a state that’s legalized it for medical purposes, possession should no longer be construed as an indicator of further criminal activity.”  In the totality of all things, this particular arrest could be justified, but what about the next traffic stop where the patient is a legitimate law-abiding cardholder?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on June 27, 2021, 08:06:29 pm
The rub is them using the presence of marijuana as a pretext with no concern as to its current legal status. 
“Having marijuana in the context of a state that’s legalized it for medical purposes, possession should no longer be construed as an indicator of further criminal activity.”  In the totality of all things, this particular arrest could be justified, but what about the next traffic stop where the patient is a legitimate law-abiding cardholder?

I agree that not checking the legal status (medical use card) is ignoring the law as it is intended. And yes from the article, he didn't want them to search his vehicle so they got a warrant to conduct one. Where I really get ticked is that what constitutes probable cause from a search of the vehicle to then conduct a search of his motel room? Based on an assumption of previous acts/acquaintances/record? It's like stopping someone for a DUI and then saying we need your bank records and the keys to your house to see what else we can find.

Oklahoma just needs to quit with the hand wringing, bible thumping, pocket lining and make the law clear.

PS. I'm still in shock from when I was there in March of 2020 and went to a liquor store and saw cold real beer and cold wine.  :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 08, 2021, 04:38:02 pm
I agree that not checking the legal status (medical use card) is ignoring the law as it is intended. And yes from the article, he didn't want them to search his vehicle so they got a warrant to conduct one. Where I really get ticked is that what constitutes probable cause from a search of the vehicle to then conduct a search of his motel room? Based on an assumption of previous acts/acquaintances/record? It's like stopping someone for a DUI and then saying we need your bank records and the keys to your house to see what else we can find.

Oklahoma just needs to quit with the hand wringing, bible thumping, pocket lining and make the law clear.




Sheriffs seek to grow drug bureaucracy

EDMOND — State officials are working with U.S. Sen. Jim Inhofe’s office to secure $4 million in federal dollars to fight illegal marijuana growing operations.

The groups held a press conference Wednesday at the Oklahoma Sheriffs’ Association office in Edmond to discuss the problem and efforts to secure additional dollars.
The funds would be used to set up a special unit within the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control, said Donnie Anderson, the bureau’s director.
“One of the things we have noticed as we have gone around the state this year is there is an increasing concern about illegal grow operations and all the criminal activity associated with it,” said Luke Holland, Inhofe’s chief of staff.
He said it seems to increasingly be the case that Chinese, Mexican, Russian and other organizations are behind the illegal marijuana operations and bring in other illegal activities such as human trafficking, money laundering and weapons trafficking, Holland said.
Inhofe will request the funds through the Department of Justice, Holland said.


https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/govt-and-politics/oklahoma-seeks-4-million-from-feds-to-combat-illegal-marijuana-growers/article_2bf6baaa-df51-11eb-862d-8b9799f66399.html








Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 26, 2021, 07:35:36 pm
Despite Congress promising to keep the Feds from busting states with decriminalized cannabis, we have the state bureaucracy acting as  proxy:


Court records show that the Garvin County Sheriff's Office carried out two raids near Pauls Valley in April with Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control investigators.

The criminal counts include marijuana cultivation, possession of a controlled substance without a tax stamp and — most notably — endeavoring to violate the U.S. Controlled Dangerous Substances Act. Cannabis, despite being legal in Oklahoma for medical use, remains classified as a Schedule I substance under federal law.


https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/crime-and-courts/attention-on-ghost-owner-investigations-as-criminal-cannabis-case-has-ties-to-tulsa-law-firm/article_ef4a010a-ebe6-11eb-bbbd-7b5c595cb280.html

..and why are anachronisms like "Tax Stamps" even still on the books?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 25, 2021, 10:54:01 am
We’re not sure what to make of the latest appointment to run the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority but hope it doesn’t reflect any effort to undo the voters’ choice on State Question 788.

Adria Berry is the fourth director of the agency in three years. She was appointed by Health Commissioner Lance Frye, who serves at the pleasure of Gov. Kevin Stitt.

Before Oklahoma voters considered State Question 788, which broadly legalized medical marijuana in the state, Berry publicly spoke against elements of the initiative petition, calling it “problematic for many reasons.”

We had our own qualms before the vote, but the measure passed by a substantial margin, and it’s now state government’s duty to live with the results. To do anything else would be breaking faith with the voters of Oklahoma.

After voters approved SQ 788, Berry supported creating a list of qualifying medical conditions and, through the State Chamber, promoted controversial language about testing for patients who have “safety sensitive” jobs. We don’t think either idea was in the spirit of SQ 788.

Legislators have been probing around the edges of SQ 788 virtually since the day it passed.

We agree with House Majority Floor Leader Jon Echols, R-Oklahoma City, when he says the authority needs to be a standalone agency and not a small part of the State Health Department.

We also agree with Rep. Scott Fetgatter, R-Okmulgee, who said the state cannot use regulations to crush legalized medical marijuana businesses, even if that helps curb illegal marijuana activities.

“It’s anti-business, anti-Republican, and it’s unfair,” Fetgatter said. “There are thousands of people who are trying to make a legitimate business out of this.

“It’s hypocritical of government to say, ‘We’re pro-business, but we don’t like your product, so we’re not pro-your-business.’”

The initiative petition wasn’t well crafted and had some elements that were puzzling, but after it passed, the job of the Legislature and the authority is to live with its stipulations with as few tweaks as are necessary. If that teaches lawmakers to be better tuned to the voters’ desires and faster to anticipate needed changes, then good.


https://tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorial/editorial-sq-788-is-the-law-and-state-government-leaders-have-to-learn-to-live/article_e4ceaf06-041d-11ec-b1cc-536590e14030.html

Legislators have also kept laws in direct conflict with medical marijuana on the books, either accidentally or intentionally facilitating much of the corruption that decriminalization is supposed to ameliorate. For example, science doesnt support the state law that says metabolites in an individuals blood from THC exposure weeks before, is evidence of intoxication (for the purposes of a DUI arrest). Its not like the legislature hasnt had time to correct it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 25, 2021, 08:04:25 pm
We’re not sure what to make of the latest appointment to run the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority but hope it doesn’t reflect any effort to undo the voters’ choice on State Question 788.

Adria Berry is the fourth director of the agency in three years. She was appointed by Health Commissioner Lance Frye, who serves at the pleasure of Gov. Kevin Stitt.

Before Oklahoma voters considered State Question 788, which broadly legalized medical marijuana in the state, Berry publicly spoke against elements of the initiative petition, calling it “problematic for many reasons.”

We had our own qualms before the vote, but the measure passed by a substantial margin, and it’s now state government’s duty to live with the results. To do anything else would be breaking faith with the voters of Oklahoma.

After voters approved SQ 788, Berry supported creating a list of qualifying medical conditions and, through the State Chamber, promoted controversial language about testing for patients who have “safety sensitive” jobs. We don’t think either idea was in the spirit of SQ 788.

Legislators have been probing around the edges of SQ 788 virtually since the day it passed.

We agree with House Majority Floor Leader Jon Echols, R-Oklahoma City, when he says the authority needs to be a standalone agency and not a small part of the State Health Department.

We also agree with Rep. Scott Fetgatter, R-Okmulgee, who said the state cannot use regulations to crush legalized medical marijuana businesses, even if that helps curb illegal marijuana activities.

“It’s anti-business, anti-Republican, and it’s unfair,” Fetgatter said. “There are thousands of people who are trying to make a legitimate business out of this.

“It’s hypocritical of government to say, ‘We’re pro-business, but we don’t like your product, so we’re not pro-your-business.’”

The initiative petition wasn’t well crafted and had some elements that were puzzling, but after it passed, the job of the Legislature and the authority is to live with its stipulations with as few tweaks as are necessary. If that teaches lawmakers to be better tuned to the voters’ desires and faster to anticipate needed changes, then good.


https://tulsaworld.com/opinion/editorial/editorial-sq-788-is-the-law-and-state-government-leaders-have-to-learn-to-live/article_e4ceaf06-041d-11ec-b1cc-536590e14030.html

Legislators have also kept laws in direct conflict with medical marijuana on the books, either accidentally or intentionally facilitating much of the corruption that decriminalization is supposed to ameliorate. For example, science doesnt support the state law that says metabolites in an individuals blood from THC exposure weeks before, is evidence of intoxication (for the purposes of a DUI arrest). Its not like the legislature hasnt had time to correct it.



But they know better than the voters...they are Republicontins!!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on August 26, 2021, 09:39:52 am
But they know better than the voters...they are Republicontins!!

Republicans are getting more like Democrats every day, just on different subjects.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 26, 2021, 11:15:42 am
Republicans are getting more like Democrats every day, just on different subjects.


They have always been like that - just convinced people otherwise.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 07, 2021, 06:53:59 pm
Passage three years ago of Medical Marijuana was supposed to take a bite out of corruption, but for some reason the Legislature never got around to repealing laws that were directly in conflict with medical marijuana.  The ongoing corruption makes it necessary to enshrine decriminalization in the state constitution.


Petition to allow cannabis for recreational adult use filed in Oklahoma

If a petition filed Thursday leads to amendment of the Oklahoma Constitution, legal purchases of recreational cannabis would be subject to a 15% excise tax, proceeds of which would help pay to operate oversight efforts on those sales.

A cannabis advocacy group has filed two ballot initiatives seeking to amend the Oklahoma Constitution to legalize cannabis use for anyone at least 21 years old and replace the state medical marijuana industry's current oversight agency.

"A lot of this is stuff that has been advocated for by a lot of folks in the community and industry over the last three years, and I don't see it's going to make it through the legislative process any time soon," Jed Green, who helped establish the group Oklahomans for Responsible Cannabis Action, said of State Questions 817 and 818.

According to Green, a new Oklahoma State Cannabis Commission would take over industry oversight from the Oklahoma State Medical Marijuana Authority, which had itself been created under the state Department of Health by State Question 788.

Green was among those who helped get SQ788 on the June 2018 ballot, which brought cannabis to dispensary shelves for licensed patients by that fall. As of September, Oklahoma had more than 375,000 licensed cannabis patients, as well as more than 2,300 dispensaries, 8,600 growers and 1,500 processors, respectively.

Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt last year vetoed House Bill 3228, which would, among other changes, have granted patients a way to have cannabis delivered to their homes during the COVID-19 pandemic. In doing so, he said the bill would have made "substantial policy changes" to the law while being "not fully scrutinized" during the legislative session.

More recently, Stitt announced in August his selection of the fourth director of the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority. In doing so, he said, “I am committed to tackling the major challenges that the explosion of marijuana in Oklahoma is causing across our state."

According to Green, one of the driving factors for the proposal was to ensure oversight independent from the state Health Department "to increase transparency and create a structure that could be functional."

"When decisions are being made about how funds are being spent, … you have to go to either the commissioner of health or the governor to understand the decisions that are being made," he said. "You can try to have conversations and be productive with OMMA directors, but at the end of the day they're having talks that you're not in the room for.

"And they're making decisions that are not in line with the industry, and it's tough. We have all the reason to believe the governor is not going to sign off on a new state agency if it makes it through the Senate."

Nearly 178,000 valid signatures would be required on each of the petitions for it to be placed on a ballot in 2022.

The medical petition, called the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Enforcement and Anti-Corruption Act, would amend the Oklahoma Constitution to create, within a year, the Oklahoma State Cannabis Commission for medical cannabis businesses and patients. The State Health Department would, at the discretion of the OSCC's board, retain oversight power on food permit and safety issues with cannabis products.

Green said a lack of enforcement for the cannabis industry has made the state a popular site for illegal activity and that a historic lack of communication to medical cannabis industry members often means they aren't aware of potential issues in time to be proactive.

"What we've seen with that not being done is a big problem," Green said. "The efforts that the (Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs Control) is making right now to clean up this variety of, especially illegal grow ops we have, that does not happen overnight. That level of infrastructure does not get built overnight."

The proposed Cannabis Commission board would include representatives from state agencies that have some form of authority over any aspect of a cannabis business. It also would allocate funding that would help those agencies accomplish their regulation requirements.

The recreational petition, called the Oklahoma Marijuana Regulation and Right to Use Act, would allow adults at least 21 years of age to have up to 8 ounces of cannabis from legal retailers, as well as up to 12 homegrown plants that would not count toward the 8-ounce threshold.

Also, the initiative outlines a path for those who have convictions for cannabis-related offenses to obtain expungements or seek judicial reviews.

Both petitions include language stating that the presence of THC metabolites in a person's hair or bodily fluid is not on its own proof of impairment or intoxication, nor can tests showing their presence be used to deny housing, health care, public aid or other rights.

Previous attempts to legalize cannabis for adult use through a constitutional amendment have failed, with Green saying he believed past efforts would have benefited from more public comments on drafts before filing ballot initiatives.

Oklahomans for Responsible Cannabis Action has shared drafts of the potential ballot measures online through its website and a Google document throughout the summer. The final drafts went public in late September following public feedback.

In lieu of the current 7% tax on medical cannabis established by State Question 788, purchases of recreational cannabis would instead be subject to a 15% excise tax, proceeds of which would help pay to operate oversight efforts on those sales. The tax on medical cannabis products would be reduced to 0% within a year, with gradual decreases at six and nine months after passage.

Extra funds from both programs would go toward aspects such as research, water resources and eight hours of training for law enforcement officers on the evolution of the legal status of cannabis.

That training would be among the continuing education requirements to remain in good standing with the Council on Law Enforcement Education and Training, the agency that accredits the state's peace officers.

"We've seen rec (recreational cannabis) come into other states and screw up their (medical) program," Green said. "The No. 1 concern by our medical people is that it will screw up the program."

But of legalization he said: "It's not a matter of if; it's a matter of when. We need to settle down, get some good transparency and get some new structure."

Oklahomans for Responsible Cannabis Action is expected to maintain a list of signature-gathering locations at orcaok.com.


https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/petition-to-allow-cannabis-for-recreational-adult-use-filed-in-oklahoma/article_4442bc12-252e-11ec-8d86-e70caaabbfa8.html



The fourth director Governor Stitt appointed to manage Oklahoma's Medical Marijuana program was the person in charge of wrecking it.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/people-to-watch-adria-berry-finds-support-at-helm-of-oklahoma-medical-marijuana-authority/article_fecefc7a-5e82-11ec-b690-ab5fa4f88ef2.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: swake on October 07, 2021, 07:43:30 pm
Patric, I know you hate starting new threads, but I think this qualifies.

But good news.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 12, 2022, 11:58:42 am
Study Finds Cannabis Compounds Prevent Infection By Covid-19 Virus

Compounds in cannabis can prevent infection from the virus that causes Covid-19 by blocking its entry into cells, according to a study published this week by researchers affiliated with Oregon State University. A report on the research, “Cannabinoids Block Cellular Entry of SARS-CoV-2 and the Emerging Variants,” was published online on Monday by the Journal of Natural Products.

The researchers found that two cannabinoid acids commonly found in hemp varietals of cannabis, cannabigerolic acid, or CBGA, and cannabidiolic acid, also known as CBDA, can bind to the spike protein of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19. By binding to the spike protein, the compounds can prevent the virus from entering cells and causing infection, potentially offering new avenues to prevent and treat the disease.

“Orally bioavailable and with a long history of safe human use, these cannabinoids, isolated or in hemp extracts, have the potential to prevent as well as treat infection by SARS-CoV-2,” the researchers wrote in an abstract of the study.

“These cannabinoid acids are abundant in hemp and in many hemp extracts,” OSU Researcher Richard vanvan Breemen said. “They are not controlled substances like THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, and have a good safety profile in humans.”


https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajherrington/2022/01/11/study-finds-cannabis-compounds-prevent-infection-by-covid-19-virus/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: tulsabug on January 12, 2022, 02:40:56 pm
Study Finds Cannabis Compounds Prevent Infection By Covid-19 Virus

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ajherrington/2022/01/11/study-finds-cannabis-compounds-prevent-infection-by-covid-19-virus/


Welp we're definitely in Bizarro World now when a conservative rag like Forbes has articles touting the medical benefits of pot.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 12, 2022, 04:19:31 pm
$10.00 says that it won't be long before some talking head from the US Health alphabet soup states that this is non scientific, unfounded, illegal research on a controlled substance that has no use.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 19, 2022, 09:42:01 am
Welp we're definitely in Bizarro World now when a conservative rag like Forbes has articles touting the medical benefits of pot.


OKLAHOMA CITY — Gov. Kevin Stitt on Tuesday set a special election for a state question that seeks to legalize recreational marijuana.

The measure would legalize, regulate and tax recreational cannabis for adults 21 years old and older.
It would provide criminal justice reform and expungement of convictions for low-level marijuana offenses.

Voters legalized the use of medial marijuana in 2018 by approving State Question 788.

Political observers had said putting SQ 820 on the Nov. 8 ballot would benefit Democrats in the election. Turnout for special elections is usually lower. About 892,000 voters cast ballots on the medical marijuana question in the June 2018 midterm primary election. By comparison, only about 528,000 voters cast ballots in the governor’s race in this year’s midterm primary election. 

Stitt has said that while he supports the federal legalization of marijuana, he opposes the state question.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/gov-kevin-stitt-sets-special-election-for-recreational-marijuana-state-question/article_4a464c88-4f20-11ed-8460-5b51616f2da3.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 20, 2022, 12:24:17 pm
$10.00 says that it won't be long before some talking head from the US Health alphabet soup states that this is non scientific, unfounded, illegal research on a controlled substance that has no use.

Tulsa County District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler said the public is misinformed about the consequences of legalizing medical and recreational marijuana, and he is seeing this play out in the courtrooms.
He said Oklahoma is already over producing marijuana, 3 thousand growers for 400 thousand licenses, leaving the rest for the black market.


https://www.krmg.com/news/tulsans-voice-their-opinion-about-recreational-marijuana/7J5OZJHAYFHQPHELH4E6R5FHC4/

So is he saying licensed growers are just selling to the mob?  What happened to their Seed-to-sale tracking bureaucracy?  https://oklahoma.gov/omma/businesses/seed-to-sale.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 09, 2022, 11:16:09 am
How the neighbors did. Missouri gets their act together while Arkansas still doesnt seem to be able to shake the corruption.


Missouri: Amendment 3 (Passed)

Missouri passed legislation decriminalizing cannabis for personal use in 2014, and voters approved a medical marijuana program four years later. Now full legalization was on the ballot in Missouri with Amendment 3 — but after little public resistance for months, the proposal faced criticism right before Election Day from several factions as a coalition of officials and organizations banded together to urge voters to reject the initiative.

Ultimately, though, they failed, and voters approved the amendment.

The group Legal Missouri 2022, which is behind the proposed constitutional amendment, says it was written to provide a “level playing field” for the industry while promoting social equity, Marijuana Moment reported. The initiative was endorsed by advocacy organizations including the ACLU of Missouri and all six chapters of Missouri NORML.

Opposition to the measure included false claims from a conservative PAC that it’s an attempt to insert critical race theory into the constitution by creating a position of “chief equity officer,” and the Missouri Democratic Party alleging that it “may negatively impact minorities, people of color and low-income earning Missourians.”

Amendment 3 makes it legal for adults 21 and older to purchase and possess up to three ounces of non-medical cannabis. It also allows registered home cultivation. Existing medical dispensaries will be licensed to serve adult consumers with a dual license.

Tax revenue from recreational cannabis sales will be used to expunge the records of people convicted of nonviolent cannabis offenses; it will also subsidize veterans’ health care, drug treatment, and state public defender programs.

Regulation will be overseen by the Department of Health and Senior Services, with microbusiness licenses issued through a lottery system. Priority for those licenses will be given to low-income applicants and people disproportionately harmed by the war on drugs.


Arkansas: Issue 4 (Failed)

Arkansas voters approved medical marijuana in 2016. Now they considered legalizing cannabis for adult use with Issue 4, which would have modified the state’s existing medical program.

The Responsible Growth Arkansas campaign turned in over 192,000 signatures in July to qualify for the November ballot. Following an attempt by the state Board of Elections to deny certification to the measure by declaring its wording insufficient, the campaign filed a lawsuit with the Arkansas Supreme Court in August. After weeks of uncertainty, the court ruled in favor of Responsible Growth Arkansas on September 22, clearing the way for the vote.

A September survey by Talk Business and Politics and Hendrix College found that 58.5 percent of Arkansas voters are in favor of the ballot measure, with 29 percent opposed and 13 percent undecided. However, an alliance of progressive cannabis advocates, religious leaders, and pro-Trump politicians — including Republican Arkansas Sen. Tom Cotton — was staunchly opposed to legalization. Pro-cannabis critics claim that the measure, which was largely funded by the medical cannabis industry, would have allowed existing medical marijuana businesses to dominate the adult-use market, and reward industry backers of the measure by limiting new competitors.

The proposed law would have allowed adults 21 and over to purchase and possess up to one ounce of cannabis from licensed retailers. It would have repealed residency requirements to qualify for the state’s medical marijuana program. Home cultivation would not be permitted, and it would have abolished criminal background checks for people who own less than 5 percent of a cannabis business.

The amendment would have repealed taxes on medical marijuana while allowing the state to charge a 10 percent sales tax on non-medical sales at dispensaries. Thirty percent of tax revenues would have been divided between law enforcement, university research, and state drug court programs, with the remainder going to the state general fund.


https://www.vox.com/2022/11/7/23445044/results-marijuana-legalization-bill-maryland-missouri


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 05, 2023, 03:12:47 pm
ST. LOUIS — Adult-use, recreational cannabis can be sold in Missouri dispensaries beginning Friday, giving consumers an unexpected boost to their weekend plans.
Recreational-use marijuana will initially be sold only at already-existing medical-use dispensaries. State health department spokeswoman Lisa Cox said at least 170 of these dispensaries statewide are eligible for licenses Friday, which will be given to any store in good standing with the department.
Recreational-use cannabis became legal when voters passed Amendment 3 last November, allowing non-medical users to possess up to 3 ounces of cannabis and medical users to possess up to 6 ounces.

With recreational-use marijuana now legal, many of the companies expect it will take a big bite out of the still-thriving illegal market. Mueller said the fact that all legal weed is tested for 54 contaminants will appeal to many consumers who have been buying pot on street corners.

Good Day Farm’s Gregory said the fact that it is legal can make a big difference. She was in Michigan when the state made the move to legal recreational cannabis.
“I was in a dispensary and a man came in, probably in his 70s. He walked into the store, raised his hands and started crying. He said, ‘I never thought I would see the day when I could walk in and buy this plant that has helped me so much,’” she said.

https://www.stltoday.com/business/local/surprise-recreational-marijuana-sales-become-legal-in-missouri-on-friday/article_8aa59c2f-6250-59ac-8c6a-7dccfb6907f9.html

Elsewhere...

"If you want your kid to potentially develop mental illness, well then, go ahead, vote for this proposition, go ahead and let them have free access to marijuana if that’s your desire," said (Tulsa County District Attorney Steve) Kunzweiler.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on February 05, 2023, 10:51:23 pm
Elsewhere...
"If you want your kid to potentially develop mental illness, well then, go ahead, vote for this proposition, go ahead and let them have free access to marijuana if that’s your desire," said (Tulsa County District Attorney Steve) Kunzweiler.

Don't forget Reefer Madness....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 18, 2023, 11:32:16 pm

Don't forget Reefer Madness....


Oh, that's at the Capitol:

“One of the biggest current threats to public safety is the presence of Chinese nationals and other elements of organized crime in our medical marijuana industry.” Oklahoma Attorney General Gentner Drummond.
https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2023/02/17/ok-attorney-general-gentner-drummond-to-vote-against-recreational-marijuana/69912607007

"Another mega-manufacturer eyeing Pryor industrial park, Gov. Kevin Stitt says"  ...until they see what kind of state they would have to convince young, educated workers to move to.  Maybe they will get lucky and it will be a Chick-fil-A global hub...
/s


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Laramie on February 23, 2023, 12:57:22 pm
.


Interesting take on Recreational Marijuana vote pro and con:  https://youtu.be/UG4HLkorPaY (https://youtu.be/UG4HLkorPaY)

Personally,  I don't smoke or use marijuana.  Because of my glaucoma issue, I qualify for a medical card; however, my lungs were destroyed years ago
from the affects of second hand smoke.


.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on February 23, 2023, 02:44:25 pm
.


Interesting take on Recreational Marijuana vote pro and con:  https://youtu.be/UG4HLkorPaY (https://youtu.be/UG4HLkorPaY)

Personally,  I don't smoke or use marijuana.  Because of my glaucoma issue, I qualify for a medical card; however, my lungs were destroyed years ago
from the affects of second hand smoke.


.

You do realize there are other delivery methods?  Edibles, for example?  I prefer those actually.  It's a longer lasting effect than smoking gives.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on February 23, 2023, 02:52:58 pm
Got my absentee on this in the mail last week, getting ready to go out and get it notarized and drop in the mail.

Seeing as how two border states already have rec cannabis (Colorado, Missouri) we might as well get on board too.  The infrastructure is already there.  At some point it's likely to be legalized on a federal level anyway and should be.  It's far better than alcohol from a health standpoint.  I use it occasionally; it helps me sleep on those nights I have insomnia.

Find it funny that Stitt wanted to push the vote from November to March.  Likely because he knew that if the vote were to happen during the general, the Gen Z/Millenials would have showed up in a lot more numbers and that could have equaled his demise at the ballot box.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 25, 2023, 11:49:14 am
Got my absentee on this in the mail last week, getting ready to go out and get it notarized and drop in the mail.

Seeing as how two border states already have rec cannabis (Colorado, Missouri) we might as well get on board too.  The infrastructure is already there.  At some point it's likely to be legalized on a federal level anyway and should be.  It's far better than alcohol from a health standpoint.  I use it occasionally; it helps me sleep on those nights I have insomnia.

Find it funny that Stitt wanted to push the vote from November to March.  Likely because he knew that if the vote were to happen during the general, the Gen Z/Millenials would have showed up in a lot more numbers and that could have equaled his demise at the ballot box.


TULSA, Okla. (KTUL) — "Get the facts about State Question 820," says the announcer in the latest ad from the Yes on 820 campaign, with a focus on safety.

"It has strict safety requirements for labeling, child-proof packaging and quantity limits to keep us and our kids safe," said the announcer.

"It’s hard to imagine anything that is making our community safer by legalizing marijuana," said Tulsa County DA Steve Kunzweiler. He and the no side are taking particular exception to a part about law enforcement.

"And free up police resources to focus on serious violent crime to make our communities safer," said the announcer.

"To somehow suggest that this is a measure that’s designed to aide law enforcement, the practical reality is it’s making it more difficult for law enforcement," he said.

"With all due respect to the Tulsa County District Attorney, I just think that he’s detached from reality," said Ryan Kiesel of Yes on 820.

https://youtu.be/-AxuD-keOnk
https://ktul.com/news/local/yes-on-820-ad-stirs-controversy



Personally,  I don't smoke or use marijuana.  Because of my glaucoma issue, I qualify for a medical card; however, my lungs were destroyed years ago
from the affects of second hand smoke.

Edibles address your situation and are available in a variety of foods and drinks. The most popular edibles are generally known as "gummy bears" and this is where the big-pharma-funded propaganda claiming its all marketing for children gets its "legitimacy."


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 07, 2023, 09:17:21 am
At some point it's likely to be legalized on a federal level anyway and should be.  It's far better than alcohol from a health standpoint. 

Tulsa County District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler spoke Monday at the capitol against SQ820, saying it fuels more addicts for profit.
“I often ask this question when I’m in a meeting,” he said. “Tell me something good about tobacco. No one can. It’s an industry that preyed upon children. Marijuana is no different."


The smell of tobacco isnt used as an excuse to circumvent your civil rights, and being caught with a Marlborough doesnt mean going to prison or not being able to get a job or decent housing the rest of your life.

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/tulsa-attorney-explains-sentence-reversal-element-of-sq820


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 11, 2023, 11:17:28 am
OKLAHOMA CITY — Oklahomans are tired of seeing a medical marijuana dispensary on every corner, Gov. Kevin Stitt said Friday.
Stitt’s comments were in response to a reporter inquiring whether Tuesday’s resounding defeat of a state question seeking to legalize recreational marijuana was an indication more regulation of medical marijuana was needed.
The state has seen drug bust after drug bust, Stitt said.
https://tulsaworld.com/news/state-and-regional/stitt-after-voters-reject-recreational-marijuana-oklahomans-so-tired-of-a-dispensary-on-every-single/article_3042b94a-bf76-11ed-bec9-6f78053255ee.html

But which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Did the state deliberately under-enforce medical marijuana regulations to engineer the necessity of a steady stream of high-profile raids? The focus seems to be more rolling back public opinion to the 1980's than protecting children from the boogeyman -- up to, and including, Stitts' appointment of an anti-marijuana lobbyist to head the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority.

Here is an article from POLITICO that forewarned that happening:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/11/12/oklahoma-marijuana-laws-520311


Oklahoma officials now face a conundrum: how aggressively to crack down on an industry that’s become an unlikely bedrock of the state’s economy. Tax revenues are on pace to exceed $150 million this year and whole sectors of the economy — from real estate to building contractors to advertising agencies — now depend on legal marijuana income. Almost nobody wants to abolish it altogether, but even the staunchest libertarians are calling for more enforcement of the rules to protect legitimate business owners.

“There’s always been a spirit of apathy, if you will, from our Department of Health as to how they’ve rolled this out, and that spirit of apathy has absolutely affected enforcement of the program,” said Chip Paul, a libertarian legalization advocate who played a key role in passing the 2018 medical marijuana referendum. “The word went out on the black market that Oklahoma was a place that you could come set up shop, and they weren’t going to come enforce the law, and you could do what you wanted.”
But lawyers who represent business owners who have lost their licenses, or are at risk of being shut down, say many of them are simply struggling entrepreneurs who thought they were doing everything right to operate legally. Instead, they received dodgy legal advice from scurrilous law firms seeking to rack up huge profits from Oklahoma’s weed rush.

    “The lack of enforcement on the medical program has put the marijuana program in a negative light in the eyes of average Oklahoma citizens.”
--    Republican state Rep. Scott Fetgatter



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 11, 2023, 07:27:31 pm
.

Ignorance and Stupidstition reign supreme.   Again.  As always.


All the late night people are having a lot of fun with it.   And I am just wondering which big company is gonna be the first to jump on the bandwagon and move to Regressiveville, USA...?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on March 11, 2023, 09:46:41 pm
Ignorance and Stupidstition reign supreme.   Again.  As always.
All the late night people are having a lot of fun with it.   And I am just wondering which big company is gonna be the first to jump on the bandwagon and move to Regressiveville, USA...?

Oklahoma has had (illegal) recreational marijuana for decades.  Why add a tax?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 13, 2023, 02:13:29 pm
Oklahoma has had (illegal) recreational marijuana for decades.  Why add a tax?




There is a tax.   15-30 years in prison for simple possession.  Small cash tax is better.

And if ya grow your own.... tax avoidance, NOT evasion!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on March 13, 2023, 02:53:33 pm
There is a tax.   15-30 years in prison for simple possession.  Small cash tax is better.
And if ya grow your own.... tax avoidance, NOT evasion!

I agree that legalization is a better option. 

How many people REALLY think they are going to get caught?

This is Oklahoma.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 22, 2023, 09:00:48 am
I agree that legalization is a better option.

Senate Bill 808, authored by Sen. Joe Newhouse, R-Tulsa, authorizes the executive director of the Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Authority (OMMA) to order licensees to cease operations if the director finds that an environmental emergency exists.
“Oklahomans are fed up with the bad actors in the marijuana industry, many of whom are here illegally and flaunting our laws, and damaging our environment.”


Oh right, "environment"

...and who got all the money Big Pharma was handing out up to the last election?

' The Protect our Kids No on 820 campaign formed in January and has yet to file a contribution report.'
https://oklahomawatch.org/2023/03/08/after-sq-820-loss-marijuana-related-justice-reform-shifts-to-legislature
 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 23, 2023, 12:22:48 pm
I agree that legalization is a better option. 

How many people REALLY think they are going to get caught?

This is Oklahoma.






Probably most don't get caught.  Especially if one has connections. 

Heck, if one has the right connections one can get away with attempted murder in Oklahoma, even after one confesses and pleads guilty to it!   (Hint; gotta be white and connected to Tim Harris office somehow....)







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 27, 2023, 12:00:01 pm
As part of the budget package, the House on Friday passed and sent to the governor SB 15x, which would increase the annual license fee from marijuana growers from $500 to $2,500.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/in-late-rush-medical-marijuana-bills-sent-to-governor/article_615c7e8c-fc0f-11ed-8527-17cbd7ab42d1.html

One of the biggest talking points among the cannabis opposition mob is that big Asian corporations are pushing out minorities and mom-and-pop entrepreneurs, so Im a bit confused as to how pricing them out of the competition is supposed to fix that.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 28, 2023, 06:35:22 pm
As part of the budget package, the House on Friday passed and sent to the governor SB 15x, which would increase the annual license fee from marijuana growers from $500 to $2,500.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/in-late-rush-medical-marijuana-bills-sent-to-governor/article_615c7e8c-fc0f-11ed-8527-17cbd7ab42d1.html

One of the biggest talking points among the cannabis opposition mob is that big Asian corporations are pushing out minorities and mom-and-pop entrepreneurs, so Im a bit confused as to how pricing them out of the competition is supposed to fix that.


It's not supposed to fix anything!   You have been around long enough to know that!   It IS supposed to turn it into such a massive cluster so that Stitt and his cronies can use it as a propaganda piece to get rid of medical marijuana.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 28, 2023, 09:51:20 pm

It's not supposed to fix anything!   You have been around long enough to know that!   It IS supposed to turn it into such a massive cluster so that Stitt and his cronies can use it as a propaganda piece to get rid of medical marijuana.


From the beginning, the price to play was deliberately low, to encourage small businesses, minorities and those hurt by the illegitimate "war on drugs" to have a hand in the game, and to do so honestly and legally. Most appear to have done so following the letter and spirit of the law, only to be replaced by those with deeper pockets and darker intentions.  Oklahoma is fighting foreign ownership with one hand while encouraging it with the other.
(Somewhat brings to mind the scene where Dr. Strangelove is almost strangled by his own hand, but I digress.)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 30, 2023, 09:58:04 am
From the beginning, the price to play was deliberately low, to encourage small businesses, minorities and those hurt by the illegitimate "war on drugs" to have a hand in the game, and to do so honestly and legally. Most appear to have done so following the letter and spirit of the law, only to be replaced by those with deeper pockets and darker intentions.  Oklahoma is fighting foreign ownership with one hand while encouraging it with the other.
(Somewhat brings to mind the scene where Dr. Strangelove is almost strangled by his own hand, but I digress.)


That was the intention of the people who supported it and got it to pass.   NOT the intention of the pieces of Stitt and other Minions trying to game the system.  Deeper pockets and darker intentions group.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 15, 2023, 12:27:43 pm
That was the intention of the people who supported it and got it to pass.   NOT the intention of the pieces of Stitt and other Minions trying to game the system.  Deeper pockets and darker intentions group.


For several years, Stitt has advocated for higher licensing fees as a way to attack growers using medical marijuana licenses as cover for black market operations. (State Rep. T.J. Marti, R-Broken Arrow), though, believes that raising the fees will have the opposite effect.

“I know guys in the business who are trying to do things the right way, and they’re really struggling,” Marti said. “The ones who are selling their product for $6,000 a pound (out of state), they’re the ones who can afford the higher fees, and they’re the ones we’re trying to get rid of.”

The fee increases in question were enacted last year to go into effect this year. SB 437 would have postponed the effective date until Nov. 1, 2025.

Grow licenses are currently $2,500, but under the new structure they will rise on a graduated scale to upwards of $50,000.
Some lawmakers have complained that out of zeal to control illegal operations, the state is instead squeezing out small owners who are trying to run lawful businesses.


https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/marijuana/legislator-says-disagreement-on-fees-for-growers-led-to-stitts-veto-of-far-ranging-medical/article_9edf2762-07f1-11ee-a5cf-bfbc17d7ed77.html

Lawmakers say they are protecting the people from organized crime by stopping recreational marijuana, but in reality they are doing the bidding of the very group that has the most to gain by marijuana staying illegal: organized crime.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 09, 2023, 09:43:41 am
A conservative and politically influential state such as Ohio legalizing marijuana should be the straw that breaks the proverbial camel’s back in terms of bringing federal regulation to cannabis, said Andrew Freedman, a partner at Forbes Tate and executive director of the Coalition for Cannabis Policy, Education and Regulation.

“As Ohio goes, so goes the nation,” he said. “It’s not the reddest [state] — the reddest was Missouri — but it is historically important, nationally important, presidentially important,” Freedman told CNN. “I honestly think it will have massive reverberating effects on what Congress has to do about this.”

Ohio voters’ approval of a legalization measure on Tuesday comes just months after cannabis saw some of its most significant movements at the federal level. In late August, a US Department of Health and Human Services official recommended that marijuana be reclassified as a Schedule III drug. One month later, a cannabis banking
bill passed a key Senate committee.

More than two-thirds of US states have legalized cannabis in some capacity: 38 states have approved comprehensive medical cannabis programs, and Ohio brings the recreational total to 24 states.
And support for legalization continues to grow. A record 70% of US adults surveyed by pollster Gallup said that cannabis use should be legal, according to a new poll released Wednesday.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/business/ohio-legal-cannabis-industry/index.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 09, 2023, 10:02:33 am
A conservative and politically influential state such as Ohio legalizing marijuana should be the straw that breaks the proverbial camel’s back in terms of bringing federal regulation to cannabis, said Andrew Freedman, a partner at Forbes Tate and executive director of the Coalition for Cannabis Policy, Education and Regulation.

“As Ohio goes, so goes the nation,” he said. “It’s not the reddest [state] — the reddest was Missouri — but it is historically important, nationally important, presidentially important,” Freedman told CNN. “I honestly think it will have massive reverberating effects on what Congress has to do about this.”

Ohio voters’ approval of a legalization measure on Tuesday comes just months after cannabis saw some of its most significant movements at the federal level. In late August, a US Department of Health and Human Services official recommended that marijuana be reclassified as a Schedule III drug. One month later, a cannabis banking
bill passed a key Senate committee.

More than two-thirds of US states have legalized cannabis in some capacity: 38 states have approved comprehensive medical cannabis programs, and Ohio brings the recreational total to 24 states.
And support for legalization continues to grow. A record 70% of US adults surveyed by pollster Gallup said that cannabis use should be legal, according to a new poll released Wednesday.


https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/business/ohio-legal-cannabis-industry/index.html




70%....  and yet, more than half of those continue to vote against it at their local, state, and Federal election levels, by putting in MAGA garbage.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 13, 2024, 06:29:38 pm
Why does this sound so familiar?

https://kfor.com/news/local/attorney-generals-task-force-seizes-72000-lbs-of-illegal-marijuana/

(https://cmg-cmg-rd-20111-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/suj-vq6kEURzZE5Nb2RhvWUioHg=/800x0/filters:format(png):quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/cmg/YJXNBWRKBJCW7CK7YNHXGY6E7Y.png)
https://cmg-cmg-rd-20111-prod.cdn.arcpublishing.com/resizer/suj-vq6kEURzZE5Nb2RhvWUioHg=/800x0/filters:format(png):quality(70)/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/cmg/YJXNBWRKBJCW7CK7YNHXGY6E7Y.png

Quote
Samples didn't test as marijuana, so entire 9-ton hemp shipment will be tested on DA orders Jan 31, 2019
https://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/samples-didn-t-test-as-marijuana-so-entire--ton/article_49943da5-764d-5d30-9836-00328f9fa660.html

The massive truckload of industrial hemp or illegal marijuana seized by authorities in Pawhuska may make it to Colorado after all — but not to its original destination with the purchasers.

Defense Attorney Matt Lyons on Thursday said federal testing has been completed on 11 samples, with only two found to be marginally over the legal THC limit and outside of the test’s margins of error.

So the Osage County District Attorney’s Office will send the truck to Colorado for THC testing of the entire 9 tons of cannabis in relation to hemp’s three-tenths of 1 percent legal limit, he said. The lowest level of THC in medicinal marijuana is 15 percent, Lyons said, which is nowhere near the one-half of 1 percent of THC found in the most potent test sample.

Lyons said the shipment doesn’t contain any black market marijuana, which he said is what prosecutors told him was their initial cause for concern.

“They are trying to call this marijuana, when it’s clear to the rest of the sane world that it’s not,” he said.

Additionally, federal and state laws provide support for handling the situation outside of criminal court. But the unresolved situation has exposed how unprepared Oklahoma — and probably other states — is for legal industrial hemp.

Federal law bars criminal enforcement of hemp growers found to be in violation, and the state only imposes civil fines or penalties, according to a Tulsa World review of relevant laws. Transport personnel don’t appear to be addressed as far as violations in either set of laws.

“Why is this (still) being criminally prosecuted?” Lyons said. “Is this because you made the mistake of prosecuting them before the tests were done?”


First Assistant District Attorney Michelle Bodine-Keely on Thursday declined to comment. She had said she thought the office might issue a news release Thursday, but it didn’t materialize.

Andrew Ross, 29, and business partner David Dirksen, 31, spent almost a week in jail after law enforcement seized the cargo Jan. 9 on Main Street in Pawhuska during a stop for a traffic violation.

Ross and Dirksen, who were providing security for the shipment, each posted a $40,000 bond on Jan. 15. That same day prosecutors had charged them with aggravated trafficking of marijuana — which carries a sentence of 15 years to life in prison.

Also charged with drug trafficking were the tractor-trailer rig’s two drivers — Tadesse Deneke, 51, and Farah Warsame, 33. Deneke and Warsame have been unable to secure bonds and remain jailed.

The pair were subcontracted by Patriot Shield Security, the business formed by Ross, Dirksen and two other veterans. All four defendants live in different states.

Trevor Reynolds, a Tulsa attorney for the shipment’s two drivers, questioned whether federal authorities will properly test the nearly 18,000-pound shipment.

Reynolds said THC contents in cannabis aren’t uniform, in contrast to a block of methamphetamine. He said defense attorneys have concern that authorities may have chosen plant samples that were more apt to have higher THC concentrations than the average of the whole shipment.

“I think Osage County has painted themselves into a corner a little bit,” Reynolds said. “I am fairly certain that unless the (THC content) tests at 1.0 percent or higher, the U.S. government is not going to be interested in it.”

Federal and Oklahoma hemp laws appear to support that supposition.

Not knowing how much those trunks weigh I would imagine their estimates are a bit off, too.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 14, 2024, 11:53:35 am
Why does this sound so familiar?


Not knowing how much those trunks weigh I would imagine their estimates are a bit off, too.





Gee... again...  I wonder why we don't attract good attention of companies wanting to relocate?

And to add to the fascist BS, Enid just elected a Nazi white supremacist to city council.   Just the place I want to live.  Not.