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Not At My Table - Political Discussions => Local & State Politics => Topic started by: patric on August 26, 2011, 10:48:42 am



Title: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 26, 2011, 10:48:42 am
It's time to get over stereotypes:
http://www.fox23.com/videos/news/fox-rant-the-case-for-medical-marijuana/vCM4X8/



UC Studies Show Marijuana Has Therapeutic Value, Reports to Legislature.
“We focused on illnesses where current medical treatment does not provide adequate relief or coverage of symptoms,” explained CMCR director, Igor Grant, MD, Executive Vice-Chair of the Department of Psychiatry at the UCSD School of Medicine.  “These findings provide a strong, science-based context in which policy makers and the public can begin discussing the place of cannabis in medical care.”
http://health.ucsd.edu/news/2010/2-17-medical-marijuana.htm
http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=2790222


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on August 26, 2011, 02:17:22 pm
Haven't we all been here before? We have all been here before.... we have all been here before.


http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13735.0

I think that AOX had a thread or two also trying to destroy the gateway drug myth.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mINUnwifgaA&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

evidently, it helped this guy calm down after the quake :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Gaspar on August 26, 2011, 02:22:06 pm
Wow!

Held his breath for 4 hours on this thread.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on August 26, 2011, 02:30:19 pm
Wow!

Held his breath for 4 hours on this thread.


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCc-RWIp7XU[/youtube]

Flatuatorybogie, I don't inhale.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 29, 2011, 10:09:38 am
The editorial position in favor of reforming marijuana laws to allow for medical use seems worthy of discussion, considering the typical response of local media has been to simply voice over or add video to press handouts crowing about common pot busts. 
Rarely do you find reporters asking simple questions like "how much did this cost taxpayers?" or "could these resources have been better utilized to fight more substantial crimes?".


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on August 29, 2011, 10:44:22 am
This thread should be sponsored by Fritos or Cheetohs.

They gain to sell more munchies if approved.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 29, 2011, 10:48:30 am
This thread should be sponsored by Fritos or Cheetohs.

They gain to sell more munchies if approved.

Nah, any self respecting stoner will tell you that Cool Ranch OR Nacho Cheese Doritos are the munchy of choice, but that's all relative, they're owned by the same people...wait, what?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on August 29, 2011, 10:50:22 am
Nah, any self respecting stoner will tell you that Cool Ranch OR Nacho Cheese Doritos are the munchy of choice, but that's all relative, they're owned by the same people...wait, what?

Cool ranch 100%


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on August 29, 2011, 11:08:20 am
Nah, any self respecting stoner will tell you that Cool Ranch OR Nacho Cheese Doritos are the munchy of choice, but that's all relative, they're owned by the same people...wait, what?

(http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p309/kallsop2/stoned.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 29, 2011, 11:30:53 am
Cool ranch 100%

Back in my heyday was when they introduced Cool Ranch Ds, so I had to make due.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on August 29, 2011, 12:24:18 pm
Back in my heyday was when they introduced Cool Ranch Ds, so I had to make due.

Wait, so you never really had the whole experience?

Better get you some of that glaucoma and quick.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 31, 2011, 09:27:58 am
And another:
http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=2803685

Maybe having a family member or friend with cancer gets people to re-order their priorities and perceptions.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on August 31, 2011, 10:07:01 am
Well we know that if the government hating, free market economy loving, tenth ammendment worshiping michelle bachmann or rick "yosemite sam" perry are elected pot will be legal overnight, right?  Ok Sorry I didn't mean to troll.  I'll be good, I'll be good.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Gaspar on August 31, 2011, 11:51:36 am
I used to have a friend who had a rare form of depression that was completely managed with weed.

Basically he would get depressed when he ran out of weed.

Helps with bulimia too because the patient eats and then forgets to throw-up.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 31, 2011, 01:10:36 pm
I used to have a friend who had a rare form of depression that was completely managed with weed.

Basically he would get depressed when he ran out of weed.

Helps with bulimia too because the patient eats and then forgets to throw-up.

Two more valid medical uses.

Not to mention using the stuff to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil - not reduce, as the Republicontins talk about - eliminate!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Gaspar on August 31, 2011, 01:41:35 pm
Two more valid medical uses.

Not to mention using the stuff to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil - not reduce, as the Republicontins talk about - eliminate!



Clogs my carburetor every time!  Have to keep a pocket knife and lighter in my glove compartment.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: custosnox on August 31, 2011, 04:10:50 pm

Not to mention using the stuff to eliminate our dependence on foreign oil - not reduce, as the Republicontins talk about - eliminate!


Wait, what?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 01, 2011, 10:10:29 am
Wait, what?

Have you not read the other threads about using biomass using marijuana to make us energy independent??

If we REALLY are interested in energy self-sufficiency, the solution is already available.  As well as an excellent medicine for many different disease treatments.  Marijuana is a "wonder plant" - that is why George Washington grew so much of it!!

Also,
fiber for paper, so we don't have to cut down all the trees in the world.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 01, 2011, 11:09:30 am
Have you not read the other threads about using biomass using marijuana to make us energy independent??

If we REALLY are interested in energy self-sufficiency, the solution is already available.  As well as an excellent medicine for many different disease treatments.  Marijuana is a "wonder plant" - that is why George Washington grew so much of it!!

Also,
fiber for paper, so we don't have to cut down all the trees in the world.



So...you could send a letter to someone and they could read it, then smoke it. This is sounding better all the time.

This is a subject that really tests our country. Now is a good time to decriminalize the drug and re-assess many others. A change in my outlook but we can't afford to keep up charades. The bad news is it won't happen in an Obama administration because of the obvious politicization.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 01, 2011, 11:16:05 am
So...you could send a letter to someone and they could read it, then smoke it. This is sounding better all the time.

This is a subject that really tests our country. Now is a good time to decriminalize the drug and re-assess many others. A change in my outlook but we can't afford to keep up charades. The bad news is it won't happen in an Obama administration because of the obvious politicization.

Let's face it: the law enforcement, court, and incarceration costs involved with pot is eating up massive amounts of money on a national, state, and local scale.  The effects alcohol has on individuals and families is far more deleterious than pot.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 01, 2011, 11:53:57 am
Let's face it: the law enforcement, court, and incarceration costs involved with pot is eating up massive amounts of money on a national, state, and local scale.  The effects alcohol has on individuals and families is far more deleterious than pot.

It has always been that way.  Was outlawed it only for the benefit of DuPont and Hearst.  (Nylon replacement for rope and trees owned by Hearst to make newspapers).  Not for any deleterious effect on society.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: custosnox on September 01, 2011, 12:52:47 pm
Have you not read the other threads about using biomass using marijuana to make us energy independent??

If we REALLY are interested in energy self-sufficiency, the solution is already available.  As well as an excellent medicine for many different disease treatments.  Marijuana is a "wonder plant" - that is why George Washington grew so much of it!!

Also,
fiber for paper, so we don't have to cut down all the trees in the world.


That would be hemp, not marijuana.  I love how those who are trying to legalize marijuana conveniently use the miracles of hemp, which is canibis, to try and sell their case.  And JEFFERSON grew and touted the wonders of hemp.  While there is speculation that other founding fathers my have had hemp plots, nothing substantiates it.  What is funny is the reason hemp became illegal is because no one knew the difference between it and Marijuana, so the canibis plant was outlawed, which included hemp and marijuana.  Of course, to get enough THC from hemp to get stoned by smoking it, you would have to smoke enough of it, fast enough, that it would end up burning up your lungs.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 02, 2011, 10:04:06 am
It has always been that way.  Was outlawed it only for the benefit of DuPont and Hearst.  (Nylon replacement for rope and trees owned by Hearst to make newspapers).  Not for any deleterious effect on society.

That, and it was associated with Mexicans.
I doubt any politician that votes against medical uses has any trouble obtaining it themselves when a family member has to undergo chemo.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 02, 2011, 11:52:14 am
That would be hemp, not marijuana.  I love how those who are trying to legalize marijuana conveniently use the miracles of hemp, which is canibis, to try and sell their case.  And JEFFERSON grew and touted the wonders of hemp.  While there is speculation that other founding fathers my have had hemp plots, nothing substantiates it.  What is funny is the reason hemp became illegal is because no one knew the difference between it and Marijuana, so the canibis plant was outlawed, which included hemp and marijuana.  Of course, to get enough THC from hemp to get stoned by smoking it, you would have to smoke enough of it, fast enough, that it would end up burning up your lungs.

So did Washington.  In fact, he was one of the biggest growers.  And he definitely was growing for medicinal as well as industrial purposes.

It is all C. Sativa.  Differences between varieties relate to the amount of THC in the plant.  Ranging from 0.5% to 20% in some of the "newer" stuff.

In FACT.  Way before DuPont Nylon, starting in the 1600's there were laws requiring the growth of hemp.

More information.
http://naihc.org/hemp_information/hemp_facts.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on September 02, 2011, 12:01:40 pm
Quote
It is all C. Sativa.  Differences between varieties relate to the amount of THC in the plant.  Ranging from 0.5% to 20% in some of the "newer" stuff.

It is the same species.  Growers have just gotten really good and engineering plants that produce more THC.  The stuff that the hippies were smoking was nothing compored to the stuff now.

That said though, I think that THC should be legal on its own ground.   The help/biofeul argument is good, but not directly relevant.  Marijuana should be legal because its negative effects are marginal at worst.  It is a matter of our constitutionally protected right to the pursuit of happiness.  Of course the government has a right to bad those things which do harm society in truely systemic ways (Heroin, coke, Barney)but the line between thos the two needs to be constantly reexamined.  That said, if booze is safe, then pot should be too as it very clearly does less damage physiologically and socially than 4loco.

Ok , done with rant for now....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 02, 2011, 12:04:30 pm
It is the same species.  Growers have just gotten really good and engineering plants that produce more THC.  The stuff that the hippies were smoking was nothing compored to the stuff now.

That said though, I think that THC should be legal on its own ground.   The help/biofeul argument is good, but not directly relevant.  Marijuana should be legal because its negative effects are marginal at worst.  It is a matter of our constitutionally protected right to the pursuit of happiness.  Of course the government has a right to bad those things which do harm society in truely systemic ways (Heroin, coke, Barney)but the line between thos the two needs to be constantly reexamined.  That said, if booze is safe, then pot should be too as it very clearly does less damage physiologically and socially than 4loco.

Ok , done with rant for now....

Correct.  Should be legal for ALL reasons.  But mainly, because there is no valid excuse for it to be illegal.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 02, 2011, 12:12:52 pm
Correct.  Should be legal for ALL reasons.  But mainly, because there is no valid excuse for it to be illegal.



Having been on against it at one time, I don't think you can say the arguments are totally invalid. They simply aren't strong enough in the face of reality. That reality being that the overzealous efforts to stop marijuana use has faithfully recreated the prohibition era gangsterism. It has diminished the credibility and effectiveness of law enforcement. It is clogging our judicial system and forcing it into player status (they make as much money as the dealers). All in an effort to punish what is basically a natural urge to enjoy peace and tranquility by whatever means necessary.

Its failure pure and simple.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DanoDan on September 03, 2011, 12:15:04 am
Some info and videos related to medical marijuana can be found at http://okmedicalmarijuana.org (http://okmedicalmarijuana.org)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 15, 2011, 08:50:44 am
Having been on against it at one time, I don't think you can say the arguments are totally invalid. They simply aren't strong enough in the face of reality. That reality being that the overzealous efforts to stop marijuana use has faithfully recreated the prohibition era gangsterism. It has diminished the credibility and effectiveness of law enforcement. It is clogging our judicial system and forcing it into player status (they make as much money as the dealers). All in an effort to punish what is basically a natural urge to enjoy peace and tranquility by whatever means necessary.

Its failure pure and simple.

The only reason that ever had any possibility of being a valid argument to make marijuana illegal is that it may be a "gateway drug".  Whatever that may be...depends on the person doing the defining, I guess.  It is a meaningless term used to confuse and obfuscate.

If there were such a thing as a "gateway drug", there would be two.  Cigarettes and alcohol.  These are the two biggest predictors of addictive behavior, and yet the prohibition of both has been found to be impossible.  With cigarettes we find that at least 20% of the population has this "addictive gene".  Alcohol?  Who knows?

Back to grass; there has never been a valid argument for prohibition.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 15, 2011, 09:14:02 am


Back to grass; there has never been a valid argument for prohibition.


At least not one that makes sense to people like us.  ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2011, 09:15:21 am
Although I disagree, and do so with a wealth of experiential evidence, I have no intention of arguing a stance I no longer can justify in the face of pragmatic concerns.

Regardless of the arguments as to genetics, morality, societal degradation etc., it remains a fact that the cost to humanity of zealously persecuting, prosecuting and proselytizing is simply too costly.

I remember seeing films of chimps in the wild hanging around fruit trees and eating the rotting, fermenting fruit on the ground to get drunk and orgy. Seems like nature provides that sort of thing without any moral consequences. Of course the chimps are then helpless against predators, so natural consequences are in play. They are for humans too.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 15, 2011, 10:03:20 am
Although I disagree, and do so with a wealth of experiential evidence, I have no intention of arguing a stance I no longer can justify in the face of pragmatic concerns.

Regardless of the arguments as to genetics, morality, societal degradation etc., it remains a fact that the cost to humanity of zealously persecuting, prosecuting and proselytizing is simply too costly.

I remember seeing films of chimps in the wild hanging around fruit trees and eating the rotting, fermenting fruit on the ground to get drunk and orgy. Seems like nature provides that sort of thing without any moral consequences. Of course the chimps are then helpless against predators, so natural consequences are in play. They are for humans too.

What are the reasons against, if you still held that view?

I don't partake of the substance any more and wouldn't if it were legal, so I really don't have a horse in this race.  The only real deleterious effects of pot are a number of carcinogens (supposedly 50% more than in cigarette smoke) and mental/emotional addiction to it.  To my knowledge there's not really any sort of physical dependency issues with it.

Most people I know who do or did smoke it generally did so to relax and didn't care to do it then drive or go to the store.  Certainly, there have been auto and work accidents caused by people under the influence, but I'd argue the incidence is far less than that of people under the influence of alcohol which is a perfectly legal drug.  I'd also argue that moderate use of pot doesn't result in near the long-term health effects as alcohol does and it's toll on family life and careers isn't nearly that of alcohol either.  I'm also not aware that one could smoke enough pot in one sitting to kill themselves like other drugs or alcohol.

That said, I don't believe all drugs should be decriminalized, just pot.  This 30 year war has been a failure.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 10:12:03 am


I remember seeing films of chimps in the wild hanging around fruit trees and eating the rotting, fermenting fruit on the ground to get drunk and orgy. Seems like nature provides that sort of thing without any moral consequences. Of course the chimps are then helpless against predators, so natural consequences are in play. They are for humans too.

"Animals are Beautiful People" is the film you are thinking of.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5E5TjkDvU0[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 10:18:04 am
I think it should be decriminalized as well. Like several others I used it years ago (30+), I don't think I would run out and buy swome if it was legal. But the thing that gets me is it is clasified as a Class 1 Drug, which is considered more dangerous than Class 2 drugs that include cocaine, morphine, and oxycodone.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 15, 2011, 10:22:02 am
I think it should be decriminalized as well. Like several others I used it years ago (30+), I don't think I would run out and buy swome if it was legal. But the thing that gets me is it is clasified as a Class 1 Drug, which is considered more dangerous than Class 2 drugs that include cocaine, morphine, and oxycodone.

And have you ever tried to bake morphine into anything made by Betty Crocker?  #tastesofass


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 10:41:33 am
And have you ever tried to bake morphine into anything made by Betty Crocker?  #tastesofass

Can't say that I have, but then again I was never interested in "hard drugs" at all.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 15, 2011, 10:46:09 am
Can't say that I have, but then again I was never interested in "hard drugs" at all.

*Cough*pot brownies*cough*


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 10:53:06 am
*Cough*pot brownies*cough*

Did make lunch time in my teens a lot more interesting.  ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 15, 2011, 11:01:50 am
Did make lunch time in my teens a lot more interesting.  ;)

OK, just making sure you were still with me.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2011, 11:10:35 am
"Animals are Beautiful People" is the film you are thinking of.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5E5TjkDvU0[/youtube]


Love that film. Not sure its the same one I saw some 40 years ago but hilarious anyway.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2011, 11:48:31 am
What are the reasons against, if you still held that view?

I don't partake of the substance any more and wouldn't if it were legal, so I really don't have a horse in this race.  The only real deleterious effects of pot are a number of carcinogens (supposedly 50% more than in cigarette smoke) and mental/emotional addiction to it.  To my knowledge there's not really any sort of physical dependency issues with it.

Most people I know who do or did smoke it generally did so to relax and didn't care to do it then drive or go to the store.  Certainly, there have been auto and work accidents caused by people under the influence, but I'd argue the incidence is far less than that of people under the influence of alcohol which is a perfectly legal drug.  I'd also argue that moderate use of pot doesn't result in near the long-term health effects as alcohol does and it's toll on family life and careers isn't nearly that of alcohol either.  I'm also not aware that one could smoke enough pot in one sitting to kill themselves like other drugs or alcohol.

That said, I don't believe all drugs should be decriminalized, just pot.  This 30 year war has been a failure.

Ok. Well...first compare the level of THC from 30 years ago to today. We were getting relaxed. Like my dad having a shot of Scotch after a hard day. At today's levels you're getting hammered. The results have been different as well. We got the munchies, got stupid, got laid and continued to keep our jobs and get our education. As many of you noted, it was a phase. Today, you still get the munchies but you get lethargic, lose your job, lose your short term memory, lose your focus, and likely stay stupid longer. Music and film education has become outstanding but ask the 18 year old in your workplace to tell you what % 16 is of 24 and get it on video. Long term studies are starting to come to fruition and from what I've heard the results aren't pretty.

Answer this question truthfully. Do you think the de-criminalization of marijuana, based on the argument that other drugs and alcohol are legal, will increase or decrease usage of the drug? And corollary questions...Will de-criminalization result in the corporatizing of the drugs production and marketing? Will you feel any safer knowing that you're being served by someone who is or recently was legally hammered?

I think it will increase usage and result in the passage of tons of regulations and lawsuits over who can and can't produce and sell it based on the history of moonshining. The long term usage negative health results, which beside cancer, may include permanent changes in brain function, genetic damage and early onset diabetes more than offset its relaxation abilities even if it is not a "gateway" drug. And I think it is incorrect to believe that where you buy your drugs has no impact on what other drugs you may buy. When I go to the liquor store for a bottle of wine and see cherry flavored Vodka, the weekend just got a little fuzzier. ;)

Then imagine the change in societal norms from that increased, broadened usage. Truth is, stupid people make decisions that hamper all our lives and this puts more stupid people on the streets. One of the largest train accidents in our history was because an engineer was smoking a blunt in the locomotive. Good thing he wasn't a pilot.

Pragmatically its a losing game to use so much of our resources to fight it in the way we've chosen. Its simply stupid. It should be decriminalized but I would hope we can do so without opening the door to wide scale corporate marketing of the drug.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 12:12:46 pm
Would you know if your being served by someone who is illegally hammered now? Visine and a change of clothes can hide the facts.

Would you feel safer is was decriminalized and produced by companies that had regulations that they had to follow as does the tobacco and alchohol manufactures do now?

There would probablly be an increase of usage of course, because people who used it recreationaly in their youth, could use it again. As for myself I doubt that I would. Yes it would also increase regulations on enforcement (ie workplace usage) but that would be similar to other regulations already in place. (yes I know that it shows for a number of days in you system after usage) There would have to be a scale developed to show imparement similar to alchohol, but you can also be arre3sted and charged with DUI if you are taking medication prescibed to you, why do you think most drugs have a warning on them about driving or operating heavy equipment while using the medication. (Besides the obvious attempt of the mfg's covering their donkey to prevent a lawsuit)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 15, 2011, 12:29:07 pm
I've spent a fair amount of time in Colorado this year.  I'm amazed at how pervasive the medial MJ business has gotten there.  It's simply an end-run around existing laws, and you can be pretty certain the people dispensing it are under the influence or have been at some point recently.

What are some of the acceptable diagnoses which will get you a prescription?  Depression, anxiety, insomnia... get it?  Pay a shrink $100 for a scrip and you are good to go.

Aqua, I've read and heard of the study results like you have and don't disagree there are other long-term effects of pot.  I really don't know if more people would use or not if it were legal.  It would not be an incentive to me as I like having full lung capacity and don't want them pasted up with tar.  I did enough damage over the years with smoking.  There's all sorts of long term health issues with drugs we choose to keep legal like tobacco and alcohol too.  Many of the same maladies as you outlined with the dope can be found with heavy alcohol use.

We simply have to get a handle on how many people we incarcerate and this is one thing which would help, as well as trying to rehabilitate end users of other drugs rather than incarceration.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2011, 01:28:59 pm
Would you know if your being served by someone who is illegally hammered now? Visine and a change of clothes can hide the facts.

Having much experience during the last couple of decades with users both at the workplace and in the family, yes, I would know. But I won't be able to see the cook, the pilot, the truck driver, the corporates etc. They have been fooling their bosses and family for years and will continue to do so.

Would you feel safer is was decriminalized and produced by companies that had regulations that they had to follow as does the tobacco and alchohol manufactures do now?

No. I don't trust the tobacco and alcohol manufacturers any more than I do drug dealers who cut their product or lace it with who knows what. They are all liars with low integrity. Wine has antifreeze in it. Cigarettes have really weird carcinogens in them. Bath salts. Enough said.

There would probablly be an increase of usage of course, because people who used it recreationaly in their youth, could use it again. As for myself I doubt that I would. Yes it would also increase regulations on enforcement (ie workplace usage) but that would be similar to other regulations already in place. (yes I know that it shows for a number of days in you system after usage) There would have to be a scale developed to show imparement similar to alchohol, but you can also be arre3sted and charged with DUI if you are taking medication prescibed to you, why do you think most drugs have a warning on them about driving or operating heavy equipment while using the medication. (Besides the obvious attempt of the mfg's covering their donkey to prevent a lawsuit)

I think the increase would tend to broaden out over time as sophisticated marketers get a grip on how to sell the stuff to different demographics without totally exposing themselves. At what age is consumption legal? At what levels? At what legal exposure? I think its a can of worms whose regulation and legal impact will make the health care proposals look simplistic. States will want to control but the Fed will resist. But, I know its indefensible the way we handle it now. And, I know I could be wrong. Users at least need to stop being punished with a sledgehammer.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2011, 01:35:05 pm
I've spent a fair amount of time in Colorado this year.  I'm amazed at how pervasive the medial MJ business has gotten there.  It's simply an end-run around existing laws, and you can be pretty certain the people dispensing it are under the influence or have been at some point recently.

What are some of the acceptable diagnoses which will get you a prescription?  Depression, anxiety, insomnia... get it?  Pay a shrink $100 for a scrip and you are good to go.

Aqua, I've read and heard of the study results like you have and don't disagree there are other long-term effects of pot.  I really don't know if more people would use or not if it were legal.  It would not be an incentive to me as I like having full lung capacity and don't want them pasted up with tar.  I did enough damage over the years with smoking.  There's all sorts of long term health issues with drugs we choose to keep legal like tobacco and alcohol too.  Many of the same maladies as you outlined with the dope can be found with heavy alcohol use.

We simply have to get a handle on how many people we incarcerate and this is one thing which would help, as well as trying to rehabilitate end users of other drugs rather than incarceration.

I very much agree with your last statement.

There is lots of controversy in Colorado and California as regards the medical usage. Many small communities are up in arms. Both states have movements to restrict or eliminate them. That is a preview of what would happen nationally.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 15, 2011, 01:37:23 pm
I very much agree with your last statement.

There is lots of controversy in Colorado and California as regards the medical usage. Many small communities are up in arms. Both states have movements to restrict or eliminate them. That is a preview of what would happen nationally.

Nationally, you could never get enough consensus, so I suspect it will be a state-by-state issue.  Are California and Colorado the only ones so far?  I would have thought Oregon and Vermont would have passed it by now.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on September 15, 2011, 03:01:11 pm
It would not be an incentive to me as I like having full lung capacity and don't want them pasted up with tar toxins in the Tulsa air we breath.  I did enough damage over the years with smoking.  There's all sorts of long term health issues with drugs we choose to keep legal like tobacco and alcohol too.  Many of the same maladies as you outlined with the dope can be found with heavy alcohol use and genetic disorders.

We simply have to get a handle on how many people we incarcerate and this is one thing which would help, as well as trying to rehabilitate end users of other drugs rather than incarceration.

Love fixing up your posts.  ;)

Let's use the Portugal system. Well, that might be at conflict with our Afghanistan strategy of protecting the poppy distribution network.

Keep it illegal. Tattoo and massage parlors along with bars and restaurants leave enough retail for money laundering. Government regulation doesn't work if you'll recall. I've learned so much here at TNF. Too bad about Gweed. I had to start listening to hate radio to get educated...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on September 15, 2011, 09:20:32 pm
This is good.
Violent Attack At Marijuana Rally Ignored By Police
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/09/violent_attack_at_marijuana_rally_ignored_by_polic.php

Culture war...it's part of the GOP playbook.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 10:04:45 pm

Here is some info from Arizona:

Quote
Three-quarters of approved patients are men and about 60 percent are older than 41. But the department said two minors have also had applications approved. The vast majority of applicants cited chronic pain as the reason they needed medical marijuana.

Close to 80 percent of applicants have asked for approval to grow their own marijuana, which is allowed under Arizona law for anyone who does not live within 25 miles of a dispensary. Individuals approved to grow their own can legally maintain up to 12 plants in their homes and caregivers can grow for up to five patients at a time.

http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2011/07/14/20110714arizona-medical-marijuana-cards-0714.html (http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/azelections/articles/2011/07/14/20110714arizona-medical-marijuana-cards-0714.html)



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 15, 2011, 10:29:28 pm
This is good.
Violent Attack At Marijuana Rally Ignored By Police
http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/09/violent_attack_at_marijuana_rally_ignored_by_polic.php

Culture war...it's part of the GOP playbook.

Probably a drunk Tea Bagger, no doubt.  That or stoned on a legal Lortab prescription...

I question whether or not these were real potheads or plants.  Most heads I know wouldn't have the attention span for a one hour protest:

"J. would not go with the ambulance; he said he was not going to put his life in their hands after the way the cops 'kept peace' in Lansing!"

According to Zig Zag Man, J. is still in a lot of pain; his muscles were wrenched when his head was turned too far by being hit with a sign. He'll be seeing a doctor on Tuesday.

"What great people us 'potheads,' are," Zig Zag man wrote. "Thank you to all that cooperated for the one hour before the smile hit the fan. Boy, a couple of these women were right in his face. What was sort of funny was for every bit of Scripture he tried to spout, five or 10 people were yelling back at him the opposing Scripture. He could not believe potheads actually knew about the Bible!

"I could not have been prouder of all the people at the rally... Thank you all!"

Pothead FAIL!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on September 15, 2011, 11:19:49 pm
Probably a drunk Tea Bagger, no doubt.  That or stoned on a legal Lortab prescription...
I question whether or not these were real potheads or plants.  Most heads I know wouldn't have the attention span for a one hour protest:
"J. would not go with the ambulance; he said he was not going to put his life in their hands after the way the cops 'kept peace' in Lansing!"
According to Zig Zag Man, J. is still in a lot of pain; his muscles were wrenched when his head was turned too far by being hit with a sign. He'll be seeing a doctor on Tuesday.
"What great people us 'potheads,' are," Zig Zag man wrote. "Thank you to all that cooperated for the one hour before the smile hit the fan. Boy, a couple of these women were right in his face. What was sort of funny was for every bit of Scripture he tried to spout, five or 10 people were yelling back at him the opposing Scripture. He could not believe potheads actually knew about the Bible!
"I could not have been prouder of all the people at the rally... Thank you all!"Pothead FAIL!

I saw more violence at a Walmart in Sun City watching little old ladies fight over the new items on the $1.00 or less table when they bring out new items.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on September 16, 2011, 12:31:00 pm

I question whether or not these were real potheads or plants.  Most heads I know wouldn't have the attention span for a one hour protest:

"J. would not go with the ambulance; he said he was not going to put his life in their hands after the way the cops 'kept peace' in Lansing!"

According to Zig Zag Man, J. is still in a lot of pain; his muscles were wrenched when his head was turned too far by being hit with a sign. He'll be seeing a doctor on Tuesday.

"What great people us 'potheads,' are," Zig Zag man wrote. "Thank you to all that cooperated for the one hour before the smile hit the fan. Boy, a couple of these women were right in his face. What was sort of funny was for every bit of Scripture he tried to spout, five or 10 people were yelling back at him the opposing Scripture. He could not believe potheads actually knew about the Bible!

"I could not have been prouder of all the people at the rally... Thank you all!"

Pothead FAIL!



They are shills for money launderers....Mexican drug lords ??

Actually, Fast food and doob seem to be the perfect combo for keeping a revolution at bay.

I just realized I can't post a pic....

Conan, I know you still would do a big fattie. :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 16, 2011, 03:30:55 pm
They are shills for money launderers....Mexican drug lords ??

Actually, Fast food and doob seem to be the perfect combo for keeping a revolution at bay.

I just realized I can't post a pic....

Conan, I know you still would do a big fattie. :D

No, I quit doing fatties at about the same time I quit smoking doobies ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on September 16, 2011, 08:03:27 pm
pot should be legal in its own grounds.  Pragmatic arguments are distractions.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 17, 2011, 10:50:23 am
Really.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 17, 2011, 07:34:32 pm
Answer this question truthfully. Do you think the de-criminalization of marijuana, based on the argument that other drugs and alcohol are legal, will increase or decrease usage of the drug? And corollary questions...Will de-criminalization result in the corporatizing of the drugs production and marketing? Will you feel any safer knowing that you're being served by someone who is or recently was legally hammered?

I think it will increase usage and result in the passage of tons of regulations and lawsuits over who can and can't produce and sell it based on the history of moonshining. The long term usage negative health results, which beside cancer, may include permanent changes in brain function, genetic damage and early onset diabetes more than offset its relaxation abilities even if it is not a "gateway" drug. And I think it is incorrect to believe that where you buy your drugs has no impact on what other drugs you may buy. When I go to the liquor store for a bottle of wine and see cherry flavored Vodka, the weekend just got a little fuzzier. ;)


In a reality based world, we have experience on a nationwide scale - as I have posted here before.  And not the Netherlands.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 18, 2011, 12:04:58 pm
In a reality based world, we have experience on a nationwide scale - as I have posted here before.  And not the Netherlands.

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html




Make note that the study was by the Libertarian Cato Institute. Might as well have the Catholic church do a study on the efficacy of birth control methods.

Want to talk reality? Take this paragraph-
At the recommendation of a national commission charged with addressing Portugal's drug problem, jail time was replaced with the offer of therapy. The argument was that the fear of prison drives addicts underground and that incarceration is more expensive than treatment — so why not give drug addicts health services instead? Under Portugal's new regime, people found guilty of possessing small amounts of drugs are sent to a panel consisting of a psychologist, social worker and legal adviser for appropriate treatment (which may be refused without criminal punishment), instead of jail.


We don't live in Europe. We aren't much like people in Portugal or Spain or France. You simply cannot confuse Americans with facts and expect them to respond with a reasonable approach to punishment, drug therapy and best use of resources.  That is fantasy.

First, find a president that has the fortitude to even propose such a commission. He won't be black or liberal I assure you. If we elected Ron Paul and I would say this process would work here as it would signal a quantum change in political outlook. Until then the Portugal experience will be pooh poohed by conservatives, hard liners from all sides and fundamental fanaticists who still think drug users are simply basically evil or under the spell of Satan.

Let me re-emphasize that I believe in de-criminalization of a lot of drug classifications. I just don't believe that we are ready to intelligently evolve to panels of psychologists, social workers and legal reps that refer drug users to treatment. Wish we were.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on September 19, 2011, 11:44:54 am
Clearing the Smoke: The Science of Cannabis

http://video.pbs.org/video/1825223761?starttime=1200000


Take an hour and you will probably learn something useful; might just save your life someday. You'll want to move to Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Vermont, or California. Healthier states for aging boomers....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 19, 2011, 11:56:13 am
Clearing the Smoke: The Science of Cannabis

http://video.pbs.org/video/1825223761?starttime=1200000


Take an hour and you will probably learn something useful; might just save your life someday. You'll want to move to Colorado, Arizona, New Mexico, Vermont, or California. Healthier states for aging boomers.... Dead heads

FIFY  ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 19, 2011, 12:25:10 pm
Biggest problem is how we have shut down even the research on the chemicals that have the benefits.  I would just as soon take a pill with the proper stuff in it.  Don't have to smoke a joint to benefit from the stuff.


Plus what we miss out on for energy self sufficiency.  But we really aren't interested in that, are we?

C   Corn        200 bu/acre @ 56 lb/bushel   1200 lbs    .6 ton
S   Switchgrass   4-6 ton per acre             8,000 lbs   4 ton
H   Hemp            12-14 ton per acre          24,000 lbs  12 ton

During World War I - Biomass yield
WWI      German   50 gal/ton
      US      25 gal/ton - faster throughput

German   C   50 x .6      30 gal
      S   50 x 4      200 gal
      H   50 x 10   500 gal

US      C   25 x .6      15 gal
      S   25 x 4      100 gal
      H   25 x 10   250 gal


US oil useage   19,500,000 barrels/day (we are down from this)
Gallons          819,000,000 gallons/day
            
At 50 gal per ton, need 819,000,000/50 = 16,380,000 tons biomass per day.
At 14 ton per acre, need 16,380,000/14 = 1,170,000 acres per day equivalent of growing biomass.
At 365 days per year, need 27860 x 365 = 427,050,000 acres.
At 640 acres per square mile, need 10,167,858/640 = 667,266 square miles of growing biomass.

Area of state in square miles - just 8 states!

Nebraska    77,421 sq. miles
Kansas      82,264
South Dakota   77,353
Oklahoma   69,899
Texas      268,580
Wyoming   97,813
Montana   147,042
Sub total         820,372

Missouri   69,704
Virginia   42,774
Next Sub total         932,850

Even if we just used part of our farmland, and maybe some marginal land, we could easily cover today's needs.  And it would be very easy to just use MJ for part of our energy needs.  Suppose we only grow half... then we are at energy self-sufficiency.  No more foreign imports.

Yeah, off topic.  But it really IS a part of the total topic - stupid drug laws!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 19, 2011, 12:29:20 pm
Don't grow it in Texas. When the wildfires hit them the South winds blow the smoke up here. Everyone gets high and stops working, then the Fed sticks us with a dirty air violation.!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: custosnox on September 19, 2011, 12:59:36 pm
Biggest problem is how we have shut down even the research on the chemicals that have the benefits.  I would just as soon take a pill with the proper stuff in it.  Don't have to smoke a joint to benefit from the stuff.


Plus what we miss out on for energy self sufficiency.  But we really aren't interested in that, are we?

C   Corn        200 bu/acre @ 56 lb/bushel   1200 lbs    .6 ton
S   Switchgrass   4-6 ton per acre             8,000 lbs   4 ton
H   Hemp            12-14 ton per acre          24,000 lbs  12 ton

During World War I - Biomass yield
WWI      German   50 gal/ton
      US      25 gal/ton - faster throughput

German   C   50 x .6      30 gal
      S   50 x 4      200 gal
      H   50 x 10   500 gal

US      C   25 x .6      15 gal
      S   25 x 4      100 gal
      H   25 x 10   250 gal


US oil useage   19,500,000 barrels/day (we are down from this)
Gallons          819,000,000 gallons/day
            
At 50 gal per ton, need 819,000,000/50 = 16,380,000 tons biomass per day.
At 14 ton per acre, need 16,380,000/14 = 1,170,000 acres per day equivalent of growing biomass.
At 365 days per year, need 27860 x 365 = 427,050,000 acres.
At 640 acres per square mile, need 10,167,858/640 = 667,266 square miles of growing biomass.

Area of state in square miles - just 8 states!

Nebraska    77,421 sq. miles
Kansas      82,264
South Dakota   77,353
Oklahoma   69,899
Texas      268,580
Wyoming   97,813
Montana   147,042
Sub total         820,372

Missouri   69,704
Virginia   42,774
Next Sub total         932,850

Even if we just used part of our farmland, and maybe some marginal land, we could easily cover today's needs.  And it would be very easy to just use MJ for part of our energy needs.  Suppose we only grow half... then we are at energy self-sufficiency.  No more foreign imports.

Yeah, off topic.  But it really IS a part of the total topic - stupid drug laws!




Why do you keep trying to push MJ as Hemp?  They are not the same, so stop trying to pretend they are.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 19, 2011, 01:05:45 pm
Is hemp subject to the same status legally as marijuana?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 19, 2011, 04:15:30 pm
Why do you keep trying to push MJ as Hemp?  They are not the same, so stop trying to pretend they are.

Cannabis sativa.  Either one or both or all of them or each of them or whatever....ALL should get off the criminal lists.  If so much difference, why will you be busted for hemp cultivation?  All imprisoned for just MJ or hemp should be out of prison.

The difference is so subtle as to be meaningless.  MJ has a few % (2 -20), hemp has very low % (less than 1).  C. sativa sativa is better fiber.  C sativa indica is better smoke.  And it is selective breeding, mostly since the 30's that has caused the big differentiation.

For energy production, it doesn't really matter which one you use - either or both will solve the problem, so if it can be a multi-use product, more power to it.  So again, why do we continue our inane, anal-retentive insanity??






Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: custosnox on September 19, 2011, 09:45:37 pm
Legally Hemp is placed in the same classification as Marijuana, and it was placed their out of ignorance.  Simply put, it was put in the same classification as Marijuana because the law makers only knew that they were both Cannabis, without understanding the difference between the two.  Of course, I also think the pot smokers who push this issue of the "miracle plant" also over estimate it's abilities to the point of fantasy, but that is another argument all together.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 20, 2011, 09:41:15 am
Legally Hemp is placed in the same classification as Marijuana, and it was placed their out of ignorance.  Simply put, it was put in the same classification as Marijuana because the law makers only knew that they were both Cannabis, without understanding the difference between the two.  Of course, I also think the pot smokers who push this issue of the "miracle plant" also over estimate it's abilities to the point of fantasy, but that is another argument all together.

Well, if there is such a thing as a point of fantasy or an over estimation, let's hear it.  Exactly where in all the legalization arguments do the exaggerations exist?

Benefit to sick people?  Well documented by many users that there is a real live clinical benefit to pain relief, nausea relief, appetite action important to cancer patients to let them eat, pressure relief in eyes for glaucoma.  More than enough evidence to not only justify, but demand that larger, formal study of the plant be done.

Fuel?  We have hundreds if not thousands of years of documented experience regarding yields for cannabis S.  It IS the 'magic bullet' that we could use today to start to relieve our energy dependence on foreign supply.  But then, we could actually do that anyway if the oil companies would just drill and produce in the OTHER 75% of the lands they already have available and proven for drilling and production.

Paper?  Well, there is certainly enough room to add a little bit more growing space to provide for paper production.  It has been done before and could easily be done again.  PLUS save a whole bunch of trees in the process.  And we haven't even talked about how much room Canada has that would also be good for growing, and since they are so closely tied to us, it would benefit both.

Clothing?  Lots of clothing fiber already starting to show up.  Easier and cheaper to grow, less environmentally unfriendly that either cotton OR the popular synthetics (oil based) used today.

Cosmetic related?  I see all kinds of hemp derived 'stuff in bottles' at the department stores.  All garbage to me, but lots of people seem to get into that kind of thing.

Recreational use?  Well, we all are pretty much aware of the benefits and the FACT that the downsides are orders of magnitude (that means dramatically) less than the comparative alternative products.  (Any and all of the alternatively used recreational chemicals, including but not limited to; opiates - natural and synthetic, cigarettes, and all flavors of alcohol.)

I submit that it is a lot like aspirin - arguably one of the more important "miracle drugs" - in that this one item excels in so many different applications/uses.

I would like to see one single area pointed out where the hype of "miracle plant" goes even a little bit beyond the reality.  Got one??  
Come on now...you brought up the pot smokers pushing the issue of 'miracle plant' - a lot of non-smokers push the same issue (me!)...show just one exaggeration!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 20, 2011, 10:13:31 am
So, Hemp could be the Peanut of the 21st century ala George Washington Carver?

What would massive devotion to Hemp cultivation do to the soil? I wasn't joking about not having Texas grow it because of fires and air pollution. If we start to use it as a fuel source it would be more subject to the fluctuations of weather and fire than petroleum supplies are.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on September 20, 2011, 10:36:11 am
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRm1yqSmsGY[/youtube]

Lighten up!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 20, 2011, 12:09:37 pm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRm1yqSmsGY[/youtube]

Lighten up!

It would help my motherf@#king Tourette's?

Awesome!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 20, 2011, 12:50:10 pm
So, Hemp could be the Peanut of the 21st century ala George Washington Carver?

What would massive devotion to Hemp cultivation do to the soil? I wasn't joking about not having Texas grow it because of fires and air pollution. If we start to use it as a fuel source it would be more subject to the fluctuations of weather and fire than petroleum supplies are.

That's why earlier in this post I mentioned using it as a partial solution.  In addition to wind, solar, and oil.  The more diversified the base sources, the less susceptible to major disruption.  Remember the 70's oil embargo - and the ensuing stupid panic??  Yeah, I know, contrived.  In exact same fashion as the Enron/Williams Co/Devon Energy contrived energy emergency in California.  If there are other sources to take up the slack, there is less disruption.  Always.

As far as the soil, well it grows pretty well in really mediocre soil...as well as good soil.  Doesn't require anywhere near the fertilizer that corn does.  Nor insecticides.  It is no "candy-donkey" plant that needs a lot of "hand holding" or coddling like cotton or corn.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: custosnox on September 20, 2011, 04:44:31 pm
That's why earlier in this post I mentioned using it as a partial solution. 
This is what I meant by the overestimation of the ability of the plant.  Yes, it (hemp, not Marijuana, don't confuse the two) has a lot of uses, and is very versatile, but it is not the end all and be all of all of the problems we have.  Yet it is toted in such a way by so many of the pro Marijuana crowd (can we say coattails?) that it is given the appearance of being the final solution to 100% of today's woes (yes, Hyperbole, but not by much).  It has it's limitations, and, as you say, is only a partial solution. 

Personally, I think that Hemp should be completely legal and put into production.  In fact, and I'm not positive about this, but I could swear I read somewhere that Hemp cultivation is actually GOOD for the soil.  I think we would benefit from it immensely, and that the stupidity of those who made the whole kit and caboodle has truly hurt this country.  As far as Marijuana goes, the "medical" benefits are still greatly debated.  For every report that shows how it "helped" someone, you can find a like one comparing it to a placebo.  But at the same time, I don't think that we should be filling our prisons with pot-heads just because they want to get stoned.  It just gets me how it is supposedly non-addictive, yet smokers fight so hard to be able to smoke it. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 21, 2011, 04:43:56 pm
Personally, I think that Hemp should be completely legal and put into production.  In fact, and I'm not positive about this, but I could swear I read somewhere that Hemp cultivation is actually GOOD for the soil.  I think we would benefit from it immensely, and that the stupidity of those who made the whole kit and caboodle has truly hurt this country.  As far as Marijuana goes, the "medical" benefits are still greatly debated.  For every report that shows how it "helped" someone, you can find a like one comparing it to a placebo.  But at the same time, I don't think that we should be filling our prisons with pot-heads just because they want to get stoned.  It just gets me how it is supposedly non-addictive, yet smokers fight so hard to be able to smoke it. 

They are too mellow to fight too hard.  Otherwise you would see the kind of battles that occurred with alcohol prohibition.  And the absolute insanity of smokers when the first no smoking in public places - like airplanes - rules came about.  All that crap about "their rights" being trampled.  BS.  Biggest bunch of whiners in the world.

Good for the soil?  Don't know about that...it is not a legume, it is Cannabaceae.  My thought would be that the benefit to soil would be only for the organic matter residues it leaves.  It won't fix nitrogen like the legumes will.  The best plant in this country for soil?  Alfalfa by far.

Medical benefits...only real doubt is raised by the same kind of people who think we are not having increased climate volatility.  (Notice I did NOT say global warming, nor did I say that it was human made.  Reference the Vostok ice core data.)  The volatility is a fact.  The only question(s) are why/how/when/where.  What has already been answered.

Which means we should study the plant for a wide variety of possible uses.  And since it has no significant deleterious effects compared to other legal recreationals, then if we are going to claim to be a free society, there is no justification for prohibition.  And insanity to put people in prison for use/possession.  Not to mention a multi-billion dollar expense that we should be saving.









Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 20, 2012, 08:19:03 pm
Back when he was running for president in 2008, Barack Obama insisted that medical marijuana was an issue best left to state and local governments. "I'm not going to be using Justice Department resources to try to circumvent state laws on this issue," he vowed, promising an end to the Bush administration's high-profile raids on providers of medical pot, which is legal in 16 states and the District of Columbia.

But over the past year, the Obama administration has quietly unleashed a multi­agency crackdown on medical cannabis that goes far beyond anything undertaken by George W. Bush. The feds are busting growers who operate in full compliance with state laws, vowing to seize the property of anyone who dares to even rent to legal pot dispensaries, and threatening to imprison state employees responsible for regulating medical marijuana. With more than 100 raids on pot dispensaries during his first three years, Obama is now on pace to exceed Bush's record for medical-marijuana busts. "There's no question that Obama's the worst president on medical marijuana," says Rob Kampia, executive director of the Marijuana Policy Project. "He's gone from first to worst."

The federal crackdown imperils the medical care of the estimated 730,000 patients nationwide – many of them seriously ill or dying – who rely on state-sanctioned marijuana recommended by their doctors. In addition, drug experts warn, the White House's war on law-abiding providers of medical marijuana will only drum up business for real criminals. "The administration is going after legal dispensaries and state and local authorities in ways that are going to push this stuff back underground again," says Ethan Nadelmann, director of the Drug Policy Alliance. Gov. Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island, a former Republican senator who has urged the DEA to legalize medical marijuana, pulls no punches in describing the state of affairs produced by Obama's efforts to circumvent state law: "Utter chaos."

In its first two years, the Obama administration took a refreshingly sane approach to medical marijuana. Shortly after Obama took office, a senior drug-enforcement official pledged to Rolling Stone that the question of whether marijuana is medicine would now be determined by science, "not ideology." In March 2009, Attorney General Eric Holder emphasized that the Justice Department would only target medical-marijuana providers "who violate both federal and state law." The next morning, a headline in The New York Times read OBAMA ADMINISTRATION TO STOP RAIDS ON MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSERS. While all forms of marijuana would remain strictly illegal under federal law – the DEA ranks cannabis as a Schedule I drug, on par with heroin – the feds would respect state protections for providers of medical pot. Framing the Obama administration's new approach, drug czar Gil Kerlikowske famously declared, "We're not at war with people in this country."

That original hands-off policy was codified in a Justice Department memo written in October 2009 by Deputy Attorney General David Ogden. The so-called "Ogden memo" advised federal law-enforcement officials that the "rational use of its limited investigative and prosecutorial resources" meant that medical-marijuana patients and their "caregivers" who operate in "clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state law" could be left alone.

At the same time, Ogden was concerned that the feds not "be made a fool of" by illegal drug traffickers. In that vein, his memo advised U.S. attorneys to focus on going after pot dispensaries that posed as medicinal but were actively engaged in criminal acts, such as selling to minors, possession of illegal firearms or money-laundering. The idea, as Holder put it, was to raid only those hardcore traffickers who "use medical-marijuana laws as a shield."

The Ogden memo sent a clear message to the states: The feds will only intervene if you allow pot dispensaries to operate as a front for criminal activity. States from New Mexico to Maine moved quickly to license and regulate dispensaries through their state health departments – giving medical marijuana unprecedented legitimacy. In California, which had allowed "caregivers" to operate dispensaries, medical pot blossomed into a $1.3 billion enterprise – shielded from federal blowback by the Ogden memo.

The administration's recognition of medical cannabis reached its high-water mark in July 2010, when the Department of Veterans Affairs validated it as a legitimate course of treatment for soldiers returning from the front lines. But it didn't take long for the fragile federal detente to begin to collapse. The reversal began at the Drug Enforcement Agency with Michele Leonhart, a holdover from the Bush administration who was renominated by Obama to head the DEA. An anti-medical-marijuana hard-liner, Leonhart had been rebuked in 2008 by House Judiciary chairman John Conyers for targeting dispensaries with tactics "typically reserved for the worst drug traffickers and kingpins." Her views on the larger drug war are so perverse, in fact, that last year she cited the slaughter of nearly 1,000 Mexican children by the drug cartels as a counterintuitive "sign of success in the fight against drugs."

In January 2011, weeks after Leonhart was confirmed, her agency updated a paper called "The DEA Position on Marijuana." With subject headings like THE FALLACY OF MARIJUANA FOR MEDICINAL USE and SMOKED MARIJUANA IS NOT MEDICINE, the paper simply regurgitated the Bush administration's ideological stance, in an attempt to walk back the Ogden memo. Sounding like Glenn Beck, the DEA even blamed "George Soros" and "a few billionaires, not broad grassroots support" for sustaining the medical-marijuana movement – even though polls show that 70 percent of Americans approve of medical pot.

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/obamas-war-on-pot-20120216#ixzz1myjmGDLW


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on February 20, 2012, 09:37:20 pm
I'm holding out hopes he gives in on States rights and may actually support Federal decrim. But he can't do that before the election. In fact, he must play hard ball for now!....

(http://)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 20, 2012, 11:20:23 pm
I'm holding out hopes he gives in on States rights and may actually support Federal decrim. But he can't do that before the election. In fact, he must play hard ball for now!....

I'm figuring he's spent the last three and a half years figuring out who to pander to in order to get re-elected.  Once that is no longer a priority, there is a good chance he might actually accomplish something he promised.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 08, 2012, 01:00:35 pm
Maybe he needs it for pain, and is just trying to avoid the Rush Limbaugh Oxycontin route...


RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson says marijuana should be legalized and treated like alcohol because the government's war on drugs has failed.
The outspoken evangelical Christian and host of "The 700 Club" on the Virginia Beach-based Christian Broadcasting Network he founded said the war on drugs is costing taxpayers billions of dollars. He said people should not be sent to prison for marijuana possession.

In a statement Thursday, Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, said Robertson's "clearly stated and well-reasoned comments throw a curve ball into the growing debate over legalizing marijuana."
"Defenders of marijuana prohibition ... must be wondering if it's only a matter of time before theirs proves to be a lost cause," he said.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on March 08, 2012, 01:26:12 pm
Quote
Maybe he needs it for pain, and is just trying to avoid the Rush Limbaugh Oxycontin route...


RICHMOND, Va. (AP) — Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson says marijuana should be legalized and treated like alcohol because the government's war on drugs has failed.
The outspoken evangelical Christian and host of "The 700 Club" on the Virginia Beach-based Christian Broadcasting Network he founded said the war on drugs is costing taxpayers billions of dollars. He said people should not be sent to prison for marijuana possession.

In a statement Thursday, Ethan Nadelmann, executive director of the Drug Policy Alliance, said Robertson's "clearly stated and well-reasoned comments throw a curve ball into the growing debate over legalizing marijuana."
"Defenders of marijuana prohibition ... must be wondering if it's only a matter of time before theirs proves to be a lost cause," he said.

In other news, Satan and Hitler are having a snowball fight in hell.....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 08, 2012, 01:33:07 pm
In other news, Satan and Hitler are having a snowball fight in hell.....

He has talked about this for a while now.  He recognizes that the 'war on drugs' has been an abject failure.  If you keep doing the same thing after 100 years and it still doesn't work, it's time to try something else.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on March 08, 2012, 01:33:48 pm
Quote
He has talked about this for a while now.  He recognizes that the 'war on drugs' has been an abject failure.  If you keep doing the same thing after 100 years and it still doesn't work, it's time to try something else.

Communist.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 08, 2012, 01:35:11 pm
Communist.

Me or Pat Robertson?

(Answer; neither.)



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on March 08, 2012, 01:41:02 pm
Quote
Me or Pat Robertson?

(Answer; neither.)


Both.  Why not?  It was sarcasm either way.  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 08, 2012, 01:48:06 pm


Both.  Why not?  It was sarcasm either way.  ;D

Yeah...I know....

I am probably closer than PR, but still a long ways away.  I have both Marx's Communist Manifesto and Mao's 'Little Red Book'.  They both read a lot like the RWRE nonsense verbally spewed on KRMG.  Take a little tiny grain of truth and weave a tapestry of crap around it.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 10, 2012, 10:25:44 am
Vinita PD and Craig County deputies take a drug dealer off the streets (at least those streets that are handicap accessible).

http://www.fox23.com/mostpopular/story/Deputies-find-pot-277-000-in-73-year-old-womans/g1ML55dBqUGxyhznY5hgDA.cspx

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/17374197_BG2.jpg)

VINITA - A Craig County drug task force serving a search warrant late Monday seized about $277,000 in cash from the home of a 73-year-old woman, Craig County Sheriff Jimmie Sooter said.
“She said the money was hers, that it was for retirement. Of course, once we got into it, it was pretty obvious it wasn’t hers.”


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on April 10, 2012, 11:51:13 am
I’m sorry, why did you post this in a thread on medical marijuana?

Quote
A 73-year old is in the Craig County Jail after deputies found five pounds of pot inside her house on Monday night.

The Craig County Sheriff says they had been watching Darlene Mays’ home, which is five miles east of Vinita, for five months before serving a search warrant on Monday night.

Deputies say the search turned up guns; five pounds of pot and $221,550 vacuumed packed inside a garbage bag in the house. An additional $53,020 was found in a truck.

Deputies arrested Mays and say she admitted the pot and money was hers. Deputies say she was distributing the drug.

Granted, I don’t see the point in it being criminalized, but you make it sound as if she got busted with an ounce of weed for her glaucoma.  How about tax evasion on $275,000?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: GG on April 10, 2012, 05:56:52 pm
Vinita PD and Craig County deputies take a drug dealer off the streets (at least those streets that are handicap accessible).

http://www.fox23.com/mostpopular/story/Deputies-find-pot-277-000-in-73-year-old-womans/g1ML55dBqUGxyhznY5hgDA.cspx

(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/17374197_BG2.jpg)

VINITA - A Craig County drug task force serving a search warrant late Monday seized about $277,000 in cash from the home of a 73-year-old woman, Craig County Sheriff Jimmie Sooter said.
“She said the money was hers, that it was for retirement. Of course, once we got into it, it was pretty obvious it wasn’t hers.”


Now we know why grannies brownies always sold out so fast at the church bazaar. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on May 17, 2012, 06:31:15 pm
Quote
Three and a half years ago, on my 62nd birthday, doctors discovered a mass on my pancreas. It turned out to be Stage 3 pancreatic cancer. I was told I would be dead in four to six months. Today I am in that rare coterie of people who have survived this long with the disease. But I did not foresee that after having dedicated myself for 40 years to a life of the law, including more than two decades as a New York State judge, my quest for ameliorative and palliative care would lead me to marijuana.

My survival has demanded an enormous price, including months of chemotherapy, radiation hell and brutal surgery. For about a year, my cancer disappeared, only to return. About a month ago, I started a new and even more debilitating course of treatment. Every other week, after receiving an IV booster of chemotherapy drugs that takes three hours, I wear a pump that slowly injects more of the drugs over the next 48 hours.

Nausea and pain are constant companions. One struggles to eat enough to stave off the dramatic weight loss that is part of this disease. Eating, one of the great pleasures of life, has now become a daily battle, with each forkful a small victory. Every drug prescribed to treat one problem leads to one or two more drugs to offset its side effects. Pain medication leads to loss of appetite and constipation. Anti-nausea medication raises glucose levels, a serious problem for me with my pancreas so compromised. Sleep, which might bring respite from the miseries of the day, becomes increasingly elusive.

Inhaled marijuana is the only medicine that gives me some relief from nausea, stimulates my appetite, and makes it easier to fall asleep. The oral synthetic substitute, Marinol, prescribed by my doctors, was useless. Rather than watch the agony of my suffering, friends have chosen, at some personal risk, to provide the substance. I find a few puffs of marijuana before dinner gives me ammunition in the battle to eat. A few more puffs at bedtime permits desperately needed sleep.

This is not a law-and-order issue; it is a medical and a human rights issue. Being treated at Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center, I am receiving the absolute gold standard of medical care. But doctors cannot be expected to do what the law prohibits, even when they know it is in the best interests of their patients. When palliative care is understood as a fundamental human and medical right, marijuana for medical use should be beyond controversy.

Sixteen states already permit the legitimate clinical use of marijuana, including our neighbor New Jersey, and Connecticut is on the cusp of becoming No. 17. The New York State Legislature is now debating a bill to recognize marijuana as an effective and legitimate medicinal substance and establish a lawful framework for its use. The Assembly has passed such bills before, but they went nowhere in the State Senate. This year I hope that the outcome will be different. Cancer is a nonpartisan disease, so ubiquitous that it’s impossible to imagine that there are legislators whose families have not also been touched by this scourge. It is to help all who have been affected by cancer, and those who will come after, that I now speak.

Given my position as a sitting judge still hearing cases, well-meaning friends question the wisdom of my coming out on this issue. But I recognize that fellow cancer sufferers may be unable, for a host of reasons, to give voice to our plight. It is another heartbreaking aporia in the world of cancer that the one drug that gives relief without deleterious side effects remains classified as a narcotic with no medicinal value.

Because criminalizing an effective medical technique affects the fair administration of justice, I feel obliged to speak out as both a judge and a cancer patient suffering with a fatal disease. I implore the governor and the Legislature of New York, always considered a leader among states, to join the forward and humane thinking of 16 other states and pass the medical marijuana bill this year. Medical science has not yet found a cure, but it is barbaric to deny us access to one substance that has proved to ameliorate our suffering.

Gustin L. Reichbach is a justice of the State Supreme Court in Brooklyn.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on May 17, 2012, 06:40:12 pm
It's going to happen just like last week on SSM....it will be Obama ending the War On Drugs by declaring states have the right to legislate and saving billions in the budget....when he gets re-elected.

http://news.yahoo.com/autopsy-evidence-marijuana-martins-blood-215533578.html related...Martin smoked before he died! OMG


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 17, 2012, 08:08:29 pm
Gustin L. Reichbach is a justice of the State Supreme Court in Brooklyn.


I wonder how many people he has sentenced for marijuana?  Or how many appeals ruled against?

Hopefully none.


I don't often wish ill for others - this is one topic where a convenient little dose of cancer for those who are voting and working against this use would probably be a pretty good case of "poetic justice".
I know - that is a terrible thing to wish and I really don't.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on May 17, 2012, 08:20:51 pm
I don't often wish ill for others - this is one topic where a convenient little dose of cancer for those who are voting and working against this use would probably be a pretty good case of "poetic justice".
I know - that is a terrible thing to wish and I really don't.

Yes you do or you wouldn't have brought it up.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 17, 2012, 09:29:38 pm
Yes you do or you wouldn't have brought it up.


I just might in this case.  Hard to say, since that wish goes so greatly and directly against my nature and basic belief structure.  When compared to the evil done by those people to inflict the large amount of suffering by their policies just to keep some economic benefit - well, I guess that kind of colors my outlook.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 17, 2012, 10:34:15 pm
I don't often wish ill for others - this is one topic where a convenient little dose of cancer for those who are voting and working against this use would probably be a pretty good case of "poetic justice".
I know - that is a terrible thing to wish and I really don't.

It's just being brutally honest, which is more than I can say for those politicians who quietly use their law enforcement connections to obtain what they need for themselves or a sick family member.

Relief from drug war insanity is going to take a lot more than waking up some politicians, because here's what you would be up against:



Republic Report think it’s worth showing that there are entrenched interest groups that are spending large sums of money to keep our broken drug laws on the books:

    1.) Police Unions: Police departments across the country have become dependent on federal drug war grants to finance their budget. In March, we published a story revealing that a police union lobbyist in California coordinated the effort to defeat Prop 19, a ballot measure in 2010 to legalize marijuana, while helping his police department clients collect tens of millions in federal marijuana-eradication grants. And it’s not just in California. Federal lobbying disclosures show that other police union lobbyists have pushed for stiffer penalties for marijuana-related crimes nationwide.

    2.) Private Prisons Corporations: Private prison corporations make millions by incarcerating people who have been imprisoned for drug crimes, including marijuana. As Republic Report’s Matt Stoller noted last year, Corrections Corporation of America, one of the largest for-profit prison companies, revealed in a regulatory filing that continuing the drug war is part in parcel to their business strategy. Prison companies have spent millions bankrolling pro-drug war politicians and have used secretive front groups, like the American Legislative Exchange Council, to pass harsh sentencing requirements for drug crimes.

    3.) Alcohol and Beer Companies: Fearing competition for the dollars Americans spend on leisure, alcohol and tobacco interests have lobbied to keep marijuana out of reach. For instance, the California Beer & Beverage Distributors contributed campaign contributions to a committee set up to prevent marijuana from being legalized and taxed.

    4.) Pharmaceutical Corporations: Like the sin industries listed above, pharmaceutical interests would like to keep marijuana illegal so Americans don’t have the option of cheap medical alternatives to their products. Howard Wooldridge, a retired police officer who now lobbies the government to relax marijuana prohibition laws, told Republic Report that next to police unions, the “second biggest opponent on Capitol Hill is big Pharma” because marijuana can replace “everything from Advil to Vicodin and other expensive pills.”

    5.) Prison Guard Unions: Prison guard unions have a vested interest in keeping people behind bars just like for-profit prison companies. In 2008, the California Correctional Peace Officers Association spent a whopping $1 million to defeat a measure that would have “reduced sentences and parole times for nonviolent drug offenders while emphasizing drug treatment over prison.”


http://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on May 17, 2012, 11:35:57 pm
I wonder how many people he has sentenced for marijuana?  Or how many appeals ruled against?

Hopefully none.


I don't often wish ill for others - this is one topic where a convenient little dose of cancer for those who are voting and working against this use would probably be a pretty good case of "poetic justice".
I know - that is a terrible thing to wish and I really don't.






The carcinogens in our air from industry will do us far more harm than hemp.

I knew three well known Tulsans who died from lung cancer. They never smoked and fought against smoking everywhere including public parks.

Tulsa should become a smoke free city. New York and California are much nicer and kinder environments ever since they went clean.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on May 18, 2012, 08:44:31 am
Can't do that. We got too much Okie in us. That's what makes us special.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on May 18, 2012, 09:26:32 am
http://www.wolfgangsvault.com/crosby-stills-and-nash/video/prison-song_1343251093.html


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/opinion/a-judges-plea-for-medical-marijuana.html?_r=1&smid=fb-share


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on May 18, 2012, 09:27:09 am
I'm aganist it, we don't need more people with altered minds on the streets we have enogh problems with legal alcohol as it is without adding more people on top of that. MJ can somethimes be a "gateway" drug too. I do think the drug laws need to be overhauled though.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on May 18, 2012, 09:42:07 am
Look Sauer....nobody dies as a result of MJ. Quit trying to supervise over the masses. Don't you believe in personal choice and freedom?

Or are you this guy?


(http://www.philzone.org/discus/messages/36579/771328.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on May 18, 2012, 10:15:52 am
Look Sauer, nobody who tokes up now is going to stop because of the law. Nobody who isn't using is going to start based on decriminalizing of the substance. The level of driving expertise is at an all time low due to cell phones and aggressive behavior. You'll never notice the difference in bad driving.

 However, the cost of enforcement of mj laws, the loss to society of contributing players, the tremendous cost of incarceration for minor offenses and the uneven justice doled out to lawyered up defendants vs public defender defendants (poor dumb guys) means we all pay way too much for very little gain.

As a fiscal conservative and a taxpayer you should really support decriminalizing.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 18, 2012, 10:49:17 am
MJ can somethimes be a "gateway" drug too.

The "gateway" is a direct product of criminalization. 

Because marijuana is illegal, you would have to buy it from someone dealing in contraband (who would much rather sell you something more compact like meth).

Decriminalization takes it out of the hands of criminal dealers and into a more controlled, taxable environment, and lessens a buyers exposure to truly dangerous drugs (and people).


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on May 18, 2012, 11:10:09 am
Coca-Cola could be considered a gateway since it could lead to drinking rum & coke.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on May 18, 2012, 11:31:41 am
MJ can somethimes be a "gateway" drug too.

I blame breast milk as the gateway to my moonshine addiction.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on May 19, 2012, 09:30:41 am
Look Sauer, nobody who tokes up now is going to stop because of the law. Nobody who isn't using is going to start based on decriminalizing of the substance. The level of driving expertise is at an all time low due to cell phones and aggressive behavior. You'll never notice the difference in bad driving.

 However, the cost of enforcement of mj laws, the loss to society of contributing players, the tremendous cost of incarceration for minor offenses and the uneven justice doled out to lawyered up defendants vs public defender defendants (poor dumb guys) means we all pay way too much for very little gain.

As a fiscal conservative and a taxpayer you should really support decriminalizing.
Yes but making MJ legal will increase use and like I said we have enough problems with alcohol and adding MJ to the mix won't help. I don't understand why people want to alter their brains anyhow what's wrong with just getting high on "life" and don't take any drugs?? I do agree the drug laws are unfair and don't fit the crime and need to be changed... There is still alot not known about MJ use and some users of MJ  long ago who have since quit seem to have dulled thinking and slow reactions, also MJ can't be healthy for the lungs any smoke likely cause lung carcinoma just like cigs do. As for me, I'm a  non-drinker non-smoker and non drug user, color me old fashioned I guess.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on May 19, 2012, 09:33:08 am
I blame breast milk as the gateway to my moonshine addiction.
MoonSine~ From deep in the hills of West VA, where they pipe in the SunShine and pipe out the MoonShine. :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on May 19, 2012, 09:40:26 am
Yes but making MJ legal will increase use and like I said we have enough problems with alcohol and adding MJ to the mix won't help. I don't understand why people want to alter their brains anyhow what's wrong with just getting high on "life" and don't take any drugs?? I do agree the drug laws are unfair and don't fit the crime and need to be changed... There is still alot not known about MJ use and some users of MJ  long ago who have since quit seem to have dulled thinking and slow reactions, also MJ can't be healthy for the lungs any smoke likely cause lung carcinoma just like cigs do. As for me, I'm a  non-drinker non-smoker and non drug user, color me old fashioned I guess.

So, you would support making cigarettes illegal along with alcohol? Or you just saying some addiction and mind altering is ok but no more?

There is no more strength for your argument that MJ usage will increase than mine that it will remain the same. So throw those arguments out. What is left is the concept of decriminalization. It does not make it legal, it makes it controllable, regulated and similar to a speeding ticket.

You make the cost of the product and the cost of using it high enough to discourage use rather than throwing citizens in prison for misdemeanor activities.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on May 19, 2012, 09:42:15 am
As for me, I'm a  non-drinker non-smoker and non drug user, color me old fashioned I guess.

Now that we know why you are the way you are.   Quick!  Get me a drink.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on May 19, 2012, 09:43:35 am
MoonSine~

Is that at new trig function?  Is it phase related to Cosine?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: jacobi on May 21, 2012, 11:36:03 pm
Quote
Is that at new trig function?  Is it phase related to Cosine?

Geometry joke of the month!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 22, 2012, 08:40:22 am
I'm aganist it, we don't need more people with altered minds on the streets we have enogh problems with legal alcohol as it is without adding more people on top of that. MJ can somethimes be a "gateway" drug too. I do think the drug laws need to be overhauled though.

So, stay home!

Big step in solving the "more people with altered minds on the street" problem.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 22, 2012, 08:44:53 am
Yes but making MJ legal will increase use and like I said we have enough problems with alcohol and adding MJ to the mix won't help. I don't understand why people want to alter their brains anyhow what's wrong with just getting high on "life" and don't take any drugs?? I do agree the drug laws are unfair and don't fit the crime and need to be changed... There is still alot not known about MJ use and some users of MJ  long ago who have since quit seem to have dulled thinking and slow reactions, also MJ can't be healthy for the lungs any smoke likely cause lung carcinoma just like cigs do. As for me, I'm a  non-drinker non-smoker and non drug user, color me old fashioned I guess.


And trotting out the tired old platitudes - the plaintive bleats - of a policy that has failed for decades in the case of MJ and over 100 years for some other items.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Gaspar on May 22, 2012, 08:58:54 am
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wWWOJGYZYpk[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on May 22, 2012, 09:33:16 am
Yes, because everything comes back to Obama.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 22, 2012, 11:03:34 am
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=wWWOJGYZYpk[/youtube]

Advocacy?


Penn's got it right.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on May 22, 2012, 11:13:29 am
Advocacy?


Penn's got it right.


Kinda harsh, ole Penn. Marijuana was made illegal by pronouncement. The Executive Branch through the FDA classified it as having no medicinal use, same as heroin and cocaine. Now, that there is ample evidence or medicinal use (which there was back then as well), the FDA can reclassify it and eliminate the problem.

There is no federal "law" that makes marijuana specifically illegal, just a law that allows the FDA to classify it as such. Funny how it took a constitutional amendment to make alcohol illegal (and even then it was OK for medicinal purposes) but it just tales a decision by some bureaucrats to make herb illegal.

"A proposed 66 percent cut in the National Guard Counterdrug Program by the Obama administration could sharply reduce the number of helicopter flights aimed at finding illicit pot gardens next year. " 
http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2012/05/eastern_oregon_law_officers_wo.html The disarming of our long losing war on drugs.

Just a matter of a little more time. Won't matter here. The Governess will surely mount her forces to stop it under states rights the very second the executive branch signs off. She'll do it to protect our children despite her war on education.

5 states will benefit tremendously.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 15, 2012, 03:04:39 pm



“Is crack worse for a person than marijuana?” Congressman Jared Polis asked Drug Enforcement Administration official Michele Leonhart.

“I believe all illegal drugs are bad,” she meekly replied.

“Is methamphetamine worse for somebody’s health than marijuana?”

As she began to repeat her same answer, Polis interrupted her, asking, “Is heroin worse for someone’s health than marijuana?”

“Again. All drugs…” she began to answer, before a frustrated Polis cut her off.

“Yes, no, or I don’t know,” he said. “If you don’t know, you can look this up. You should know this as the chief administrator for the Drug Enforcement Agency. I’m asking you a very straightforward question: Is heroin worse for someone’s health than marijuana?”

“All illegal drugs are bad,” she replied.

“Does this mean you don’t know?” Polis interrupted.

Clearly she doesn’t. Or she simply refuses to acknowledge the facts. Plenty of studies show that drugs like heroin, methamphetamine, and cocaine are much more addictive and harmful than marijuana. Heck, the same studies also show that alcohol and nicotine are more addictive and harmful than marijuana. Our own government even recognizes that nicotine is potentially as addictive as heroin and cocaine.

Despite the well-known research, Leonhart accused Polis of asking a “subjective” question.

“No, this is objective. Just looking at the science,” Polis shot back. “This is your area of expertise. I’m just a layperson but I’ve read some of the studies and I’m aware of it. I’m just asking you as an expert in the subject area: is heroin worse for someone’s health than marijuana?”

“And I’m answering as a police officer, and as a DEA agent, that these drugs are illegal because they are dangerous, because they are addictive, because they do hurt a person’s health,” she replied.

He pressed her once more: “So heroin is more addictive than marijuana?”

She conceded that heroin is addictive, and so is meth, but when Polis tried to get her to answer whether they are more addictive than marijuana, she gave yet another non-answer: “I think some people become addicted to marijuana and some people become addicted to methamphetamine.”

Eventually Polis turned the conversation to the DEA’s classification of prescription drug abuse as “top priority,” telling Leonhart that his home state of Colorado legalized medical marijuana and saw a decrease in prescription drug abuse (side note: a new study also finds that medical marijuana reduces teen marijuana use). “Would your agency consider supporting medical marijuana provisions when that can be used in pursuit of your top priority — which is reducing the need for prescription drugs — if it can be documented that medical marijuana helps reduce the abuse of prescription drugs?”

Leonhart’s non-answer: “Congress determined that marijuana is a controlled substance. And DEA’s tasked with enforcing — ”

“Again,” he interrupted, “in pursuit of your ‘top priority,’ are you willing to look at medical marijuana as a way of reducing abuse of prescription drugs?”

Leonhart’s response: “We will look at any options for reducing drug addiction.”

Yeah, okay.

http://www.mediaite.com/online/democratic-congressman-schools-dea-agent-over-marijuana-during-congressional-hearing/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on July 15, 2012, 03:23:56 pm
The irony is that people of the street know that the only treatment for crack is marijuana and the places you get marijuana would rather sell you crack. Legalizing it would make it available in an environment devoid of dealers whose only interest is maximizing their profit.

Yet, the DEA enforcement officials are not equipped to make those decisions as to who gets rousted. As long as Congress tells the DEA that enforcing marijuana prohibition is just as important as heroin, they have little choice and marijuana arrests are an easier success. Congress and the executive branch are the targets for changing enforcement, not the DEA.

Get rid of the neanderthals in Congress. No incumbents from red states.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on July 15, 2012, 05:07:37 pm
Get rid of the neanderthals in Congress. No incumbents from red any states.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 15, 2012, 05:41:10 pm



And yet, you are still a big Inhofe fan, in spite of his past...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on July 15, 2012, 05:51:02 pm
And yet, you are still a big Inhofe fan, in spite of his past...

Medium, not big.  He offers some things I agree with (that I know you don't) in spite of his reputation among liberals and Democrats.  You have offered alternatives that you think are vastly superior but we disagree.  That's just the way it is.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 15, 2012, 06:35:15 pm
Medium, not big.  He offers some things I agree with (that I know you don't) in spite of his reputation among liberals and Democrats.  You have offered alternatives that you think are vastly superior but we disagree.  That's just the way it is.

Perhaps, perhaps not vastly superior -  but absolutely in line with the idea of voting out every incumbent.  And then the next time, vote that one out.  Until there is a good one - which is never gonna happen, so keep voting out the previous one.

Vastly superior - at the very least, vastly superior by the fact they haven't been doing damage to the state since the 60's.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on July 15, 2012, 07:19:54 pm
(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/391285_444719505559317_1118282804_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on July 16, 2012, 03:23:04 am
There is no federal "law" that makes marijuana specifically illegal, just a law that allows the FDA to classify it as such. Funny how it took a constitutional amendment to make alcohol illegal (and even then it was OK for medicinal purposes) but it just tales a decision by some bureaucrats to make herb illegal.

Quote
Marijuana is classified as a Schedule I controlled substance under the Controlled Substances Act (CSA).  As a Schedule I drug, marijuana is classified under the following criteria:

A. The drug has a high potential for abuse.
B. The drug has no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States
C. There is a lack of accepted safety for use of the drug under medical supervision.

Department of Justice Guidelines:
The Department of Justice (DOJ) issued guidance for Federal prosecutors in states that have enacted laws authorizing the medical use of marijuana under state law.  The guidelines explain that it is likely not an efficient use of federal resources to focus enforcement efforts on individuals with serious illnesses who use marijuana as part of a recommended treatment regimen consistent with applicable state law or their individual non-commercial caregiver.  However, persons who are in the business of cultivating, selling, or distributing marijuana, and those who knowingly facilitate such activities, are in violation of Federal law, and are subject to Federal enforcement action, including potential prosecution.

 The CSA mandates that the scheduling and approval of drugs, including marijuana, must be done on both legal and scientific bases.  The scheduling of a drug must conform to all applicable criteria contained in the CSA if the medicine includes a controlled substance.  In June 2011, the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) reviewed a petition to reschedule marijuana.  Based upon scientific and medical evaluation, as well as scheduling recommendations from the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), DEA denied the petition to reschedule marijuana.  HHS determined that marijuana has a high potential for abuse, no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the U.S., and lacks accepted safety for use under medical supervision.

Regardless of state laws to the contrary, there is no such thing as “medical” marijuana under Federal law.  Marijuana continues to be a Schedule I substance meaning that it has no currently accepted medical use and a high potential for abuse.

It is also important to know that the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has approved medical use of isolated components of the marijuana plant such as THC, the active ingredient in marijuana and related synthetic compounds.  Dronabinol is one synthetically produced compound used in the FDA-approved medicine Marinol (a Schedule III drug).  Marinol is legally available by prescription from physicians for patients who suffer from pain and chronic illnesses such as cancer and AIDS.  Another FDA-approved medicine, Cesamet, contains the active ingredient Nabilone (a Schedule II drug), which has a chemical structure similar to THC.  And Sativex, an oromucosal spray approved in Canada, the UK, and other parts of Europe for the treatment of multiple sclerosis spasticity and cancer pain, is currently in late-stage clinical trials with the FDA.  It combines THC and another active ingredient in marijuana, cannabidiol (CBD), and provides therapeutic benefits without the “high” from the drug.


The DOJ guidelines do not legalize marijuana.  The DOJ guidance explicitly states that marijuana remains illegal under Federal law.  Enforcing Federal law against significant traffickers in illegal drugs including marijuana remains a core Department of Justice priority.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/federal-laws-pertaining-to-marijuana (http://www.whitehouse.gov/ondcp/federal-laws-pertaining-to-marijuana)

Quote
However, persons who are in the business of cultivating, selling, or distributing marijuana, and those who knowingly facilitate such activities, are in violation of Federal law, and are subject to Federal enforcement action, including potential prosecution.  

Quote
The DOJ guidance explicitly states that marijuana remains illegal under Federal law

Federal Law trumps State Law.

You are full of what you spew.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on July 16, 2012, 03:57:37 am
Quote
The drugs and other substances that are considered controlled substances under the CSA are divided into five schedules. A listing of the substances and their schedules is found in the DEA regulations, 21 C.F.R. Sections 1308.11 through 1308.15. A controlled substance is placed in its respective schedule based on whether it has a currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States and its relative abuse potential and likelihood of causing dependence. Some examples of controlled substances in each schedule are outlined below.


NOTE: Drugs listed in schedule I have no currently accepted medical use in treatment in the United States and, therefore, may not be prescribed, administered, or dispensed for medical use. In contrast, drugs listed in schedules II-V have some accepted medical use and may be prescribed, administered, or dispensed for medical use.

Quote
Schedule 1: High Abuse, No Recognized Medical Use, Lack of Safety
Heroin
LSD
MDMA
Marijuana
Methaqualone

Quote
Schedule 2: High Abuse, Medical Utility, High Dependency Risk
Opium
Morphine
Coca
Cocaine
Methadone
Methamphetamine

Quote
Schedule 3: Lower Abuse, Medical Utility, Moderate Dependency Risk
Amphetamine
Barbiturate
Valium
Xanax
Anabolic Steroids
Codeine

Quote
Schedule 4: Limited Abuse, High Medical Utility, Limited Dependency Risk
Chloral Hydrate
Meprobamate
Paraldehyde
Phenobarbital

Quote
Schedule 5: Minor Problems
Typically includes preparations of the above drugs in limited amounts

http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html (http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on July 16, 2012, 04:29:12 am
http://www.incb.org/pdf/e/list/46thedition.pdf (http://www.incb.org/pdf/e/list/46thedition.pdf)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 16, 2012, 11:46:47 am
As long as Congress tells the DEA that enforcing marijuana prohibition is just as important as heroin, they have little choice and marijuana arrests are an easier success. Congress and the executive branch are the targets for changing enforcement, not the DEA.

Well, yes and no.
When Congress wants to look informed on the subject, who do you think they go to for their expertise?
Remember, most of these representatives have to have interns do Google searches and email.

The above hearing clearly shows DEA bureaucracy is inept and only motivated by politics.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 16, 2012, 12:09:18 pm
http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html (http://www.umsl.edu/~keelr/180/classify.html)

The Schedule 1 list (No Recognized Medical Use) skirts history.  LSD has been used in Norway to treat alcoholism, and marijuana was considered the most effective drug at treating migraine attacks.

...yet Schedule 4 (limited dependency/abuse risk) lists dangerous highly abused drugs like phenobarbital.

The system is broken, and all the forceful "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" heavy-handedness has not made that fact any less real.



(http://loldrugs.com/sites/loldrugs.com/files/wizard-of-oz-acid-trip.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on July 16, 2012, 12:09:38 pm
Well, yes and no.
When Congress wants to look informed on the subject, who do you think they go to for their expertise?
Remember, most of these representatives have to have interns do Google searches and email.

The above hearing clearly shows DEA bureaucracy is inept and only motivated by politics.

Marijuana has been a controlled substance since the 30's. It was made a Class I narcotic before the DEA was formed.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on July 16, 2012, 12:11:51 pm
Well, yes and no.
When Congress wants to look informed on the subject, who do you think they go to for their expertise?
Remember, most of these representatives have to have interns do Google searches and email.

The above hearing clearly shows DEA bureaucracy is inept and only motivated by politics.

That and cya.

What would be your plan for decriminalizing any drug in this political atmosphere? No sitting president or Congressman up for re-election dares support such craziness. It seems that attacking the beast from the inside (the states) as the TP'ers and Gay activists are doing might be the best strategy. That would force a face-off.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 16, 2012, 12:23:28 pm
That and cya.

What would be your plan for decriminalizing any drug in this political atmosphere? No sitting president or Congressman up for re-election dares support such craziness. It seems that attacking the beast from the inside (the states) as the TP'ers and Gay activists are doing might be the best strategy. That would force a face-off.

Convince the Tea Partiers that MJ cures “teh ghey” and it might just get decriminalized.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 16, 2012, 12:28:37 pm
Marijuana has been a controlled substance since the 30's. It was made a Class I narcotic before the DEA was formed.

The National Conference of Commissioners on Uniform State Laws developed the Uniform State Narcotic Drug Act in 1934 due to the lack of restrictions in the Harrison Act of 1914. The act was a revenue-producing act and, while it provided penalties for violations, it did not give authority to the states to exercise police power regarding either seizure of drugs used in illicit trade or punishment of those responsible.

Harry J. Anslinger, a member of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, campaigned and lobbied for passage of the Uniform State Narcotic Act.
Anslinger launched a nationwide media campaign declaring that marijuana causes temporary insanity. The advertisements featured young people smoking marijuana and then behaving recklessly, committing crimes, killing themselves and others, or dying from marijuana use. The propaganda campaign was a success and all states signed on.




Meanwhile, in our century:

 

House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi reiterated her support for medical marijuana on Wednesday and indicated Democrats might be interested in taking changes to federal law after the election.

“I’ve been very clear on the subject of medical marijuana over time, in committee and on the floor as leader,” Pelosi said told Raw Story at a round table of bloggers.

“I think that it would be really important to do that,” Pelosi said. “It would be hard for anyone to agree with the fact that someone who has HIV/AIDS or has cancer and they find relief from pain in medicinal marijuana that should be something that should be a priority to raid on the part of the Justice Department. Going along with that, we need to address some of the penalties for any non-violent crime that are out there.”

Pelosi previously attacked the administration on medical marijuana raids in May, when she criticized the administration for carrying out raids on medical marijuana facilities. The Obama administration has carried out more raids than the George W. Bush administration.

Her statement at that time said, “I have long supported efforts in Congress to advocate federal policies that recognize the scientific research and clinical research demonstrating the medical benefits of medicinal marijuana, that respects the wishes of the states in providing relief to ill individuals, and that prevents the federal government from acting to harm the safe access to medicinal marijuana provided under state law.”

Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) told Raw Story, “I think our marijuana policy in this country is absolutely nuts.” He predicted that within 10 years, the country would move on medical marijuana policy nationwide.   And an increasing number of Americans agree with Blumenauer. A recent poll showed 74 percent of Americans agree that the federal government shouldn’t interfere with states’ laws on medical marijuana. A Gallup poll from last year also showed that 50 percent of Americans now support full legalization of marijuana.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 16, 2012, 12:33:01 pm
It seems that attacking the beast from the inside (the states) as the TP'ers and Gay activists are doing might be the best strategy. That would force a face-off.

Local authorities refusing to cooperate or give support to the feds when they want to raid a legal, tax-paying dispensary?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on July 16, 2012, 12:36:18 pm
Convince the Tea Partiers that MJ cures “teh ghey” and it might just get decriminalized.

Yeah, legalize the ghey then legalize the anti-ghey. Sounds pretty Machiavellian. We all win!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on July 16, 2012, 12:41:58 pm
Rep. Earl Blumenauer (D-OR) told Raw Story, “I think our marijuana policy in this country is absolutely nuts.” He predicted that within 10 years, the country would move on medical marijuana policy nationwide.   And an increasing number of Americans agree with Blumenauer. A recent poll showed 74 percent of Americans agree that the federal government shouldn’t interfere with states’ laws on medical marijuana. A Gallup poll from last year also showed that 50 percent of Americans now support full legalization of marijuana.[/font]

Yeah, they've been saying within 10 years for the last three decades. Talk is cheap, and the "war on drugs" is a cash cow.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 16, 2012, 07:05:31 pm
Yeah, they've been saying within 10 years for the last three decades. Talk is cheap, and the "war on drugs" is a cash cow.

We need only go as far as the recent federal sting here in Tulsa to see how well the WOD is going.
How we progressed from the 1930's version of anti-Mexican legislation, to drug enforcement officers caught on tape filling their pockets with cash in a Tulsa motel room, is mind boggling.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 16, 2012, 09:06:14 pm
If you (everyone here) gets the chance, use your Netflix to watch "Reefer Madness".  I have the DVD, so don' t have to stream it...

It shows the hysteria, misrepresentations, distortions, and lies that have accompanied the WOD since the get-go.  Ya gotta ask yourself why/how there would be so much money and effort spent on this when the supposed end result is the salvation of America's youth?  Well, as we know now - and have for many decades - it IS, as it always is, a case of "follow the money".  The ones we know about for a fact are DuPont (eliminate hemp for rope in place of their nylon), and Hearst (replace hemp for paper by the trees William owned in all those forests he had). 

Who else could possibly benefit from this prohibition of nature??  Well, anyone who wanted to have a bureaucracy and make it survive and grow.  Perhaps an "army" fighting a "war" on drugs?  Bent on setting up a "boogey-man" (reefer addicts from then to now) for the general populace to focus on so they would not look behind the curtain.

So, find the person running for Congress/Senate who has drug law insanity reform as one of their platform planks.  Then vote for that person.  Simple.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on July 16, 2012, 09:34:06 pm
The ones we know about for a fact are DuPont (eliminate hemp for rope in place of their nylon), and Hearst (replace hemp for paper by the trees William owned in all those forests he had). 

I believe the liquor industry also had a hand in it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 16, 2012, 09:37:27 pm
I believe the liquor industry also had a hand in it.


Wouldn't surprise me at all - that certainly would make sense....I just haven't heard of any direct evidence...if you got some info, I would love to know it!






Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on July 16, 2012, 09:41:35 pm
Wouldn't surprise me at all - that certainly would make sense....I just haven't heard of any direct evidence...if you got some info, I would love to know it!

I'm pretty sure I heard/saw it on a documentary on either Channel 11 or the History Channel.  It's been a few years ago now.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 16, 2012, 11:01:02 pm
I believe the liquor industry also had a hand in it.

Besides national police associations, the alcohol industry is the major source of funding to fight reform efforts.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdoMYGRJP_8[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2012, 07:37:51 am
There we are then...they know their sales would droop, and we can't have that....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 17, 2012, 12:30:43 pm
There we are then...they know their sales would droop, and we can't have that....

4 Industries Getting Rich Off the Drug War
Several industries owe their profit margins, market shares, and—in some cases—very existence to the war on drugs.
http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/22/4-industries-getting-rich-off-the-drug-w/singlepage


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2012, 02:24:55 pm
4 Industries Getting Rich Off the Drug War
Several industries owe their profit margins, market shares, and—in some cases—very existence to the war on drugs.
http://reason.com/archives/2012/04/22/4-industries-getting-rich-off-the-drug-w/singlepage


Not to mention the big 20 billion dollar gorilla bureaucracy - the DEA. 



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 17, 2012, 02:39:25 pm

Not to mention the big 20 billion dollar gorilla bureaucracy - the DEA. 



What? You don’t think people would come forward from a cushy government bureaucracy to point out they are a huge drain on the budget and society in general and go sit in the u/e line?   ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 17, 2012, 02:41:26 pm
What? You don’t think people would come forward from a cushy government bureaucracy to point out they are a huge drain on the budget and society in general and go sit in the u/e line?   ;D


Won't happen.  That's why they need to be fired!  Legalize pot!   Save $20 billion and reduce a dangerous government bureaucracy!!







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rhymnrzn on July 17, 2012, 04:35:14 pm
We need only go as far as the recent federal sting here in Tulsa to see how well the WOD is going.
How we progressed from the 1930's version of anti-Mexican legislation, to drug enforcement officers caught on tape filling their pockets with cash in a Tulsa motel room, is mind boggling.
The idea.  You have a link for that incident?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 17, 2012, 06:31:50 pm
The idea.  You have a link for that incident?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM3KqIt3f64[/youtube]

The videos show Detective John K. "J.J." Gray, former Cpl. Harold Wells and Officers Nick DeBruin and Bruce Bonham searching a hotel room during the May 18, 2009, sting. Gray, Bonham and DeBruin are shown pocketing cash that had been placed in the room by the FBI as part of the sting.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 13, 2012, 09:32:36 pm
Just a thought I read today....


You say pot makes people hungry, stupid, and lazy? 

So you are saying we have had a 40+ year war against hungry, stupid, lazy people and we still can't win it?

I think it's time to throw in the towel.

John Jay Myers, candidate for US Senate, TX


The drug war has led to America being the leader in incarcerations around the world, ahead of China and Iran.  Visible forward progress....not.






Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 13, 2012, 09:39:43 pm
Just a thought I read today....


You say pot makes people hungry, stupid, and lazy? 

So you are saying we have had a 40+ year war against hungry, stupid, lazy people and we still can't win it?

I think it's time to throw in the towel.

John Jay Myers, candidate for US Senate, TX


The drug war has led to America being the leader in incarcerations around the world, ahead of China and Iran.  Visible forward progress....not.






Wow, a salient thought coming from Texas.  I guess dogs and cats CAN live together!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 13, 2012, 09:55:00 pm
Not completely sure about that, but who knows....

Libertarian from TX.  Much of what he says I feel is good stuff.  But then he and many other Libertarians also are in favor of government abdicating many of those responsibilities that I feel are absolutely necessary.


http://johnjaymyers.com/



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on August 14, 2012, 06:18:10 am
Just a thought I read today....


You say pot makes people hungry, stupid, and lazy? 

So you are saying we have had a 40+ year war against hungry, stupid, lazy people and we still can't win it?

I think it's time to throw in the towel.

John Jay Myers, candidate for US Senate, TX


The drug war has led to America being the leader in incarcerations around the world, ahead of China and Iran.  Visible forward progress....not.






The war has lead to a thriving corrections business which lobbies hard for stronger sentencing and funding of more correctional facilities.

If we really want to eliminate hungry, stupid, lazy people we could start with people who live mostly off of fast food and QT and are so busy eating their fries while driving that they can't use their turn signals.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 14, 2012, 07:54:03 am
Think of all the lost jobs if we had some sanity in the law! 


All the carp about how smoking dope makes you any of those things - yeah, right.  Think Michael Phelps.  Well, he may be hungry all the time given how many calories he burns each day....





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: JCnOwasso on August 21, 2012, 07:12:45 am

Won't happen.  That's why they need to be fired!  Legalize pot!   Save $20 billion and reduce a dangerous government bureaucracy!!


Yes, because while Republicans are down with smaller Government, it is on the non-"morals" agencies: EPA, DOE, Education, SEC, OMB, IRS, etc etc, and agencies or funded programs that don't support their agenda, primarily Planned Parenthood and any Arts programs.  We must cut costs at any expense... except when the cutting of costs will interfer with campaign contributions.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 21, 2012, 12:42:06 pm
Yes, because while Republicans are down with smaller Government, it is on the non-"morals" agencies: EPA, DOE, Education, SEC, OMB, IRS, etc etc, and agencies or funded programs that don't support their agenda, primarily Planned Parenthood and any Arts programs.  We must cut costs at any expense... except when the cutting of costs will interfer with campaign contributions.


Exactly.  Vote accordingly.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on September 07, 2012, 06:53:20 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/07/medical-marijuana-street-dealing_n_1865418.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on September 10, 2012, 06:50:24 pm
Quote
I found out that contrary to what I'd been told, nobody has ever died from using marijuana in the thousands of years this plant has been available. In fact, I had no idea that its medical use dated back to around 2700 B.C. and was called a "superior" herb by the Emperor Shen-Nung (2737-2697 B.C.). I discovered that while I had been demonizing marijuana, thousands of people worldwide had been quietly and effectively curing or relieving a multitude of health problems, including Crohn's disease, migraine headaches, chronic depression, post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD), insomnia, dementia, epileptic seizures, Parkinson's disease and even AIDS. The more I researched and talked to pro-cannabis physicians, patients, researchers and historians who studied the plant, the more I heard incredible testimonials of recovery from illnesses and mental imbalances in addition to, as one patient told me, "just a better outlook on life."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laurel-dewey/marijuana-is-not-addictive_b_1739339.html

Quote
And that's when I uncovered information that really challenged the stories I'd been told. People were using this "weed" to get off of opiates, alcohol, tobacco, heroin, cocaine and other powerful drugs. Thus, it was gaining traction as "an exit drug," instead of the "gateway drug." Seniors were also secretly using it to improve their cognition. Wait...what? How is that possible? Didn't marijuana make you a "brain-dead loser"? No, not according to the scientific data I discovered. The opposite was true as researchers found that the plant allowed neurogenesis in the brain -- the growth of new neural pathways, even when the brain had been damaged by age or trauma.
  http://www.harmreductionjournal.com/content/6/1/35/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 10, 2012, 07:43:26 pm
Just what the sane people have been saying since the 60's.

The "big lie" is what DuPont and Hearst used for decades, and the effort renewed up by Nixon with his "war on drugs".  (His actual phrase was "war on drug abuse").  And now we suffer this massive unwarranted government intrusion into people's private lives.  Amazing how that phrase has become so warped and twisted around by the RWRE...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 10, 2012, 07:47:58 pm
References....


http://www.amazon.com/Hemp-The-Marijuana-Conspiracy-Authoritative/dp/1878125001

http://www.amazon.com/Hemp-The-Marijuana-Conspiracy-Authoritative/dp/1878125001



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 09, 2012, 01:02:12 pm
Former Police Chief Melvin Fisher

(http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/w640-6568df4017813e68dbd22a94c1858cf1.jpg)

Free after his suspended 10-year sentence for dealing meth, he is in his own prison.
And you have to wonder why OBNDD makes marijuana a higher priority.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on November 09, 2012, 01:03:24 pm
Former Police Chief Melvin Fisher


Free after his suspended 10-year sentence for dealing meth, he is in his own prison.
And you have to wonder why OBNDD makes marijuana a higher priority.

Holy moses


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on November 09, 2012, 02:50:48 pm
And he would swear to you that he looks good. It's a crazy addiction.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 09, 2012, 03:09:53 pm
Ahh another successful user of the Jenny Crank diet plan!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on November 09, 2012, 03:31:03 pm
This is what a New York blogger I read had to say about good ol Mel's picture.

Eww gross dude. Clean it up. You’re getting your picture taken for f*ck’s sake. Sure it looks like you just opened the Arc of the Convenant and your face is melting like at the end of Indiana Jones, but how about a smile? No seriously what’s this guy’s diet? AIDS? Is he eating 3 squares of AIDS every day? Or did he turn anorexic because his boyfriend in jail called him fat? Both very viable possibilities.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 09, 2012, 11:54:15 pm
Former Police Chief Melvin Fisher

Free after his suspended 10-year sentence for dealing meth, he is in his own prison.
And you have to wonder why OBNDD makes marijuana a higher priority.



Hey, Melvin...just hurry up and die so someone more worthy can make use of the oxygen you are wasting!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 12, 2012, 07:57:15 pm
Ahh another successful user of the Jenny Crank diet plan!

For which he still appears to have ample access.      Professional connections ... sweet.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 13, 2012, 01:12:20 pm
Ahh another successful user of the Jenny Crank diet plan!

I think it was an old Saturday Night Live skit where they introduced the "Slim-Crash" diet.  Very simple - and oh, so effective... 

Diet plan;

A deep breath of air for breakfast.
A deep breath of air and a glass of water for lunch.
A sensible Marlboro cigarette for dinner.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 18, 2012, 12:22:46 am
The Police Guide To Marijuana Use:

http://spdblotter.seattle.gov/2012/11/09/marijwhatnow-a-guide-to-legal-marijuana-use-in-seattle/

Seriously, it's on a government website (so it's gotta be true).  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on November 18, 2012, 02:09:34 pm
Spoiler alert: No, you can't get your pot back if it was previously seized.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 21, 2012, 08:16:22 am
Spoiler alert: No, you can't get your pot back if it was previously seized.

NOT FAIR!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 28, 2012, 12:08:56 pm
CHICAGO — Julie Falco eats three marijuana brownies a day, her chosen method of using cannabis to control her pain from multiple sclerosis.

For her, marijuana works better and has fewer side effects than the prescription drugs that left her depressed and in a fog, she said. She's tired of breaking the law, but doesn't want to give up cannabis.

Falco hopes Illinois lawmakers will remember her story as they consider a three-year pilot program to temporarily legalize medical marijuana.
House Bill 30 sponsor Rep. Lou Lang, a Skokie Democrat, wants the House to vote on the bill Wednesday and thinks political momentum is on his side.

With 18 states and the District of Columbia allowing the use of medical marijuana — and two states, Washington and Colorado, recently approving the use of recreational marijuana — the time may be right for passage in Illinois, Lang said. Lawmakers in the past told him they favor the bill but couldn't vote for it for political reasons, he said.  Now, some lame ducks can vote for the bill without consequences.

As the Illinois bill is written, a patient would have to get written certification from their regular doctor and be diagnosed with one of about 30 medical conditions, which include cancer, glaucoma, HIV, hepatitis C, multiple sclerosis, "agitation of Alzheimer's disease" and several pain syndromes. Also on the list: fibromyalgia, a condition with an unknown cause and a lack of definitive tests, and nail-patella syndrome, a rare inherited disorder that can cause pain while walking.

Other safeguards of the bill include a ban on doctors having financial ties to nonprofit marijuana dispensaries, guarantees that employers could still enforce drug-free policies and no requirement for insurance coverage.
Patients would be limited to 2.5 ounces every two weeks, which Falco considers a minimal amount for someone like her.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 28, 2012, 02:43:39 pm
CHICAGO — Julie Falco eats three marijuana brownies a day, her chosen method of using cannabis to control her pain from multiple sclerosis.

For her, marijuana works better and has fewer side effects than the prescription drugs that left her depressed and in a fog, she said. She's tired of breaking the law, but doesn't want to give up cannabis.

Falco hopes Illinois lawmakers will remember her story as they consider a three-year pilot program to temporarily legalize medical marijuana.
House Bill 30 sponsor Rep. Lou Lang, a Skokie Democrat, wants the House to vote on the bill Wednesday and thinks political momentum is on his side.

With 18 states and the District of Columbia allowing the use of medical marijuana — and two states, Washington and Colorado, recently approving the use of recreational marijuana — the time may be right for passage in Illinois, Lang said. Lawmakers in the past told him they favor the bill but couldn't vote for it for political reasons, he said.  Now, some lame ducks can vote for the bill without consequences.

As the Illinois bill is written, a patient would have to get written certification from their regular doctor and be diagnosed with one of about 30 medical conditions, which include cancer, glaucoma, HIV, hepatitis C, multiple sclerosis, "agitation of Alzheimer's disease" and several pain syndromes. Also on the list: fibromyalgia, a condition with an unknown cause and a lack of definitive tests, and nail-patella syndrome, a rare inherited disorder that can cause pain while walking.

Other safeguards of the bill include a ban on doctors having financial ties to nonprofit marijuana dispensaries, guarantees that employers could still enforce drug-free policies and no requirement for insurance coverage.
Patients would be limited to 2.5 ounces every two weeks, which Falco considers a minimal amount for someone like her.




Five ounces a month?  That's beyond stoned.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on November 28, 2012, 03:02:15 pm
Five ounces a month?  That's beyond stoned.

Gee. I can't remember how much me and my "Buds" would smoke a month. But that's probably right on target.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on November 28, 2012, 06:57:59 pm
Gee. I can't remember how much me and my "Buds" would smoke a month. But that's probably right on target.

"would" smoke? Come now.... :o


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 29, 2012, 12:21:02 pm
Just a thought I read today....
The drug war has led to America being the leader in incarcerations around the world, ahead of China and Iran.  Visible forward progress....not.

State Sen. Brian Crain, R-Tulsa, derails a proposed study on marijuana law reform, saying his decision not to allow the study was based on the Oklahoma Constitution and the U.S. Constitution.
"I don't know how we can proceed ... as the federal law says the legalization of medical marijuana is against the law," Crain said.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20121129_11_A1_ULNSdo813611

He just has unshakable respect for federal laws, like the Affordable Care Act.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on November 29, 2012, 12:52:28 pm
"would" smoke? Come now.... :o

Ok, Ok. "Could" smoke.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on November 29, 2012, 01:41:43 pm
Ok, Ok. "Could" smoke.

Let's go present tense: "can"... k?

Nobody needs to feel scorned for staying current..... :o


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 29, 2012, 04:38:24 pm
In other marijuana-related developments today, Patricia Spottedcrow finally got justice and was released from prison.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on November 29, 2012, 04:43:28 pm
In other marijuana-related developments today, Patricia Spottedcrow finally got justice and was released from prison.

Crazy


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on November 29, 2012, 05:39:35 pm
Let's go present tense: "can"... k?

Nobody needs to feel scorned for staying current..... :o

Nope I can't say that. 1990 was my last year of the cannabis sativa. But if it helps people with illness relief. I'm all for it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on November 29, 2012, 08:25:49 pm
Nope I can't say that. 1990 was my last year of the cannabis sativa. But if it helps people with illness relief. I'm all for it.

Well then, you need to indulge. Medically speaking, it might make you kinder. ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on November 29, 2012, 09:31:24 pm
In other marijuana-related developments today, Patricia Spottedcrow finally got justice and was released from prison.

We know she was in because of that name. Oh, the fact she had no good lawyer was covering for Mom might be pertinent.

I hope this is a lesson for all those woman stoners out there!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 30, 2012, 09:05:28 am
We know she was in because of that name. Oh, the fact she had no good lawyer was covering for Mom might be pertinent.

I hope this is a lesson for all those woman stoners out there!

I hope it's a lesson to our legislature what an expensive tragedy the war on drugs is.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on November 30, 2012, 09:13:05 am
I hope it's a lesson to our legislature what an expensive tragedy the war on drugs is.

Too many lobbyists from prisons for hire and alcohol producers.  (a guess)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 30, 2012, 09:22:08 am
Too many lobbyists from prisons for hire and alcohol producers.  (a guess)

There's nothing fiscally conservative about it, that's for damn sure.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 30, 2012, 10:08:13 am
Too many lobbyists from prisons for hire and alcohol producers.  (a guess)

It would be a good guess.  Might be interesting to look at Sen. Crain's donors:
http://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal

While it's hardly astonishing that the corporate beer lobby would oppose efforts to legalize marijuana, a non-toxic, ostensibly safer alternative to alcohol, it is surprising to see how quickly the law enforcement lobby -- to date the largest supporters of Public Safety First, -- is willing to get into bed with big booze.
http://www.alternet.org/story/148213/alcohol_lobby_now_openly_spending_against_ca%27s_legal_pot_initiative_in_alliance_with_police_industrial_complex


Also found this while poking around:

Former U.S. Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.), once a fierce critic of drug legalization, has taken sides with the Marijuana Policy Project (MPP), which advocates for medical marijuana and other drug-law reforms.

The Cox News Service reported March 30 that Barr, whom the Libertarian Party once called the “worst drug warrior” during his eight years in Congress, is now working to repeal the “Barr Amendment” — legislation he introduced in 1999 to prevent the legalization of medical marijuana in the District of Colombia.

Barr did not comment on taking the MPP job, but said he had left the Republican Party because of its move “toward big government and disregard toward privacy and civil liberties.”

“In light of the tremendous growth of government power since 9/11, it has forced me and other conservatives to go back and take a renewed look at how big and powerful we want the government to be in people's lives,” Barr said.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 30, 2012, 01:41:55 pm
It would be a good guess.  Might be interesting to look at Sen. Crain's donors:
http://www.republicreport.org/2012/marijuana-lobby-illegal

While it's hardly astonishing that the corporate beer lobby would oppose efforts to legalize marijuana, a non-toxic, ostensibly safer alternative to alcohol, it is surprising to see how quickly the law enforcement lobby -- to date the largest supporters of Public Safety First, -- is willing to get into bed with big booze.
http://www.alternet.org/story/148213/alcohol_lobby_now_openly_spending_against_ca%27s_legal_pot_initiative_in_alliance_with_police_industrial_complex


Also found this while poking around:

Former U.S. Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.), once a fierce critic of drug legalization, has taken sides with the Marijuana Policy Project (MPP), which advocates for medical marijuana and other drug-law reforms.

The Cox News Service reported March 30 that Barr, whom the Libertarian Party once called the “worst drug warrior” during his eight years in Congress, is now working to repeal the “Barr Amendment” — legislation he introduced in 1999 to prevent the legalization of medical marijuana in the District of Colombia.

Barr did not comment on taking the MPP job, but said he had left the Republican Party because of its move “toward big government and disregard toward privacy and civil liberties.”

“In light of the tremendous growth of government power since 9/11, it has forced me and other conservatives to go back and take a renewed look at how big and powerful we want the government to be in people's lives,” Barr said.


I suspect Bob finally tried a big fattie at a party and realized what he'd been missing.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 30, 2012, 01:58:58 pm
I suspect Bob finally tried a big fattie at a party and realized what he'd been missing.

Or a family member was diagnosed with cancer.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 01, 2012, 08:31:27 am
I hope it's a lesson to our legislature what an expensive tragedy the war on drugs is.


And who keeps electing these reactionary sellouts??  It sure ain't me...for at least 4o+ years.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 01, 2012, 08:49:43 am
Or a family member was diagnosed with cancer.

Very close sister-in-law going through this now and she has lost about 50 lbs part way through the fight.  Nauseous ALL the time - everything in comes right back out.  Our medieval laws are literally mandating torture upon sick people to prohibit the use of something that by all indications provides significant relief to not only the nausea, but actually stimulates appetite - those famous munchies we all hear about.  She could use some food right about now...  

She is not the first I have known go through this - there have been too many others, just as close, over the years.  Hers is the situation that has become my "straw on the camel's back" to take me to a whole other place - a place I have never dreamed I could get to...

After spending my entire life hoping that no one ever has to go through this, I have finally now reached the point that I do hope that each of these a$$ wipes that pushes against marijuana so hard actually DOES have someone very close and special to them go through this.  And soon.  I have reached the point where I feel they deserve the experience.  They have earned it through the suffering of millions of others.  And to be even more clear - I absolutely do NOT want THEM to go through it - I want those closest to them to go through it, so they can experience the true full experience without distraction.







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on December 01, 2012, 02:06:27 pm
I'd like to make a case against it. We have enough problems with legal alcohol, adding MJ will make it worse,  we don't need more people on the streets with altered minds on top of all the people using alcohol. Making MJ legal is a stepping stone for making other drugs legal. I vote against it..


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on December 01, 2012, 02:07:44 pm
I'd like to make a case against it. We have enough problems with legal alcohol, adding MJ will make it worse,  we don't need more people on the streets with altered minds on top of all the people using alcohol. Making MJ legal is a stepping stone for making other drugs legal. I vote against it..

Why don't we outlaw pain meds while we're at it? After all, why should people who just had surgery get relief? They might end up on the streets with altered minds. People certainly should die so you aren't made uncomfortable.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on December 01, 2012, 02:12:52 pm
Why don't we outlaw pain meds while we're at it? After all, why should people who just had surgery get relief? They might end up on the streets with altered minds. People certainly should die so you aren't made uncomfortable.

Remember who you're replying to, Nate...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 01, 2012, 03:02:10 pm
It is hard to smoke sauerkraut. It fits in the pipe nicely, but is usually too wet to catch fire well.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 01, 2012, 03:14:53 pm
After spending my entire life hoping that no one ever has to go through this, I have finally now reached the point that I do hope that each of these a$$ wipes that pushes against marijuana so hard actually DOES have someone very close and special to them go through this.  And soon.  I have reached the point where I feel they deserve the experience.  They have earned it through the suffering of millions of others.  And to be even more clear - I absolutely do NOT want THEM to go through it - I want those closest to them to go through it, so they can experience the true full experience without distraction.

"We can discretely supply your loved one with the need for as long as necessary, but in exchange we will want some favors that your position can facilitate."



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on December 01, 2012, 03:40:55 pm
It is hard to smoke sauerkraut. It fits in the pipe nicely, but is usually too wet to catch fire well.

You don't smoke the sauerkraut, Michael.  You smoke some sausage and then add it to the sauerkraut.

Now I'm hungry for kielbasa and sauerkraut.  That didn't take long.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on December 01, 2012, 03:50:38 pm
You don't smoke the sauerkraut, Michael.  You smoke some sausage and then add it to the sauerkraut.

So when they say sausage roll, they really mean rolling papers?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 02, 2012, 08:56:06 pm
I'd like to make a case against it. We have enough problems with legal alcohol, adding MJ will make it worse,  we don't need more people on the streets with altered minds on top of all the people using alcohol. Making MJ legal is a stepping stone for making other drugs legal. I vote against it..


You have proven yourself to have an altered mind, so that vote doesn't count.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on December 02, 2012, 08:57:33 pm

You have proven yourself to have an altered mind, so that vote doesn't count.



Wouldn't that require the mind to exist for alterations?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 02, 2012, 08:58:30 pm
"We can discretely supply your loved one with the need for as long as necessary, but in exchange we will want some favors that your position can facilitate."




Ahhhhh....therein lies the rub.  I am not a 0.1%er.  I have no position that would be of any significance in granting favors.  If I did, it would already not be a problem, would it?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 02, 2012, 09:01:50 pm
Wouldn't that require the mind to exist for alterations?


I softened my reply dramatically from the original to take into account the fact that it would be a "fight" with an unarmed man....

Plus the fact that I have lost any and all sense of humor on the topic, and accordingly any sense and exercise of proportion on this issue.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 20, 2012, 03:23:57 pm
You have to admire how they manage to put it into perspective:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-december-5-2012/old-tokes-home


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 20, 2012, 07:17:37 pm
You have to admire how they manage to put it into perspective:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-december-5-2012/old-tokes-home


Buffet!!!!

I like to travel, too!  Yeah, we just don't have enough perspective or view of the bigger picture in this country.  Plus, marijuana won't plug you up like narcotic pain relievers do!!  Especially if taken in their 'high fiber' form - brownies!!  A constant concern of the elderly!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on December 21, 2012, 01:45:03 pm
Sorry I'm against making MJ legal so I don't have a case to support it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on December 21, 2012, 01:47:58 pm

Buffet!!!!

I like to travel, too!  Yeah, we just don't have enough perspective or view of the bigger picture in this country.  Plus, marijuana won't plug you up like narcotic pain relievers do!!  Especially if taken in their 'high fiber' form - brownies!!  A constant concern of the elderly!

But you left out it affects and alters the brain much more than smoking does. Studies have shown that long term MJ use makes you less alert and you don't perform as well on skill testing, MJ makes you less smart in other words.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on December 21, 2012, 02:04:38 pm
But you left out it affects and alters the brain much more than smoking does. Studies have shown that long term MJ use makes you less alert and you don't perform as well on skill testing, MJ makes you less smart in other words.

I'm guessing there's not much room for....nevermind.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on December 21, 2012, 03:37:12 pm
But you left out it affects and alters the brain much more than smoking does. Studies have shown that long term MJ use makes you less alert and you don't perform as well on skill testing, MJ makes you less smart in other words.

Baloney.

Where's this study? Or is it based on a few fake surveys from the 1990's?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 22, 2012, 02:25:02 pm
Sorry I'm against making MJ legal so I don't have a case to support it.

Come visit again after you have had a while to deal with a loved one suffering with cancer or MS.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 23, 2012, 09:18:45 am
Sorry I'm against making MJ legal so I don't have a case to support it.

Your stand against it is just another excellent point making the case for it!!  Given you past stance and comments on just about everything else....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 23, 2012, 09:20:07 am
But you left out it affects and alters the brain much more than smoking does. Studies have shown that long term MJ use makes you less alert and you don't perform as well on skill testing, MJ makes you less smart in other words.

Still blathering what they taught you in elementary school and what they showed you in the movie "Reefer Madness".  All, or course, nonsense.  See note above....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on December 23, 2012, 09:28:50 am
I thought part of the federal War On Drugs precluded any studies of potential benefits of any Schedule 1 drugs.  That puts THC - the active part of cannabis - in the same category as heroin.  If any peer-reviewed studies exist, I'd like to see a link to them.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on December 23, 2012, 12:23:28 pm
Was it FOTD or Aox who was our first advocate here for medical purposes and decrim and legalization? ;D

Seriously, we should get out ahead of the curve on this issue. Already prepared documentation exists for medical marijuana in the state crapitoll. What odds of that happening? And then there's the voters... But shouldn't it just be legalized and regulated on the Federal level? Two years from now will be the window of opportunity.

There's a national chain called Ziggyz that now has 4 locations in the city. Buy futures. They're going to be sitting in the cat nip seat. Short prison corps.... oh, encourage a Brady or Blue Dome location.

Just as Colorado and Washington will out recruit college football players in the coming years, young talent will move to the areas of the country where they aren't hassled for what they do in the privacy of their own homes.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on December 23, 2012, 12:38:18 pm
Was it FOTD or Aox who was our first advocate here for medical purposes and decrim and legalization? ;D

Are you suffering from unknown cause of memory loss?   ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 23, 2012, 02:00:20 pm

Seriously, we should get out ahead of the curve on this issue. Already prepared documentation exists for medical marijuana in the state crapitoll. What odds of that happening?


Not as long as we are "fighting a war on drugs" like this:

"A system for sentencing guidelines for federal offenders which directs someone like Officer Brandon McFadden to receive self-surrender, 20 months for dealing 26 kilos of methamphetamine, and to keep his $400,000 house, which was undoubtedly built in part with drug money, demonstrates again the accuracy of the often repeated claim that the law is an a$s"
--  Attorney Stephen Jones


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on January 23, 2013, 10:42:00 am
Not that this will fly any time soon...

Oklahoma Senate to review state's medicinal marijuana policy, penalty

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws)

Quote
An Oklahoma senator has filed two separate bills that could change the state's laws on marijuana.

House Bill 902 would legalize medicinal marijuana while HB 914 would reduce the penalty for those caught with a small amount of marijuana.

Currently, the maximum penalty for possessing 1.5 ounces is one year in jail and a $1,000 fine.

Senator Constance Johnson proposes cutting the maximum to 10 days in jail and a $200 fine.

Rogers County Sheriff Scott Walton is against both proposals.

"It's not time to loosen up on anything," he said.

As for why he opposes medicinal marijuana, he just looks to the states where a similar law has already been enacted.

"It's an absolute joke," he said. "I stub my toe and now I need a script for a dime bag of weed? I think that should be a slap in the face to the medical profession or the pharmaceutical profession."

Not everyone opposes the proposals.

"I think that there are definitely medicinal purposes to marijuana," said Tulsa native Katja Newton. "I think that it has been proven with all the science and all the research that's been done."

Newton supports the decriminalization of marijuana and is in favor of Johnson's proposal to reduce the penalties.

"I think we are spending so much money by sticking people in jail for such a small thing as carrying a small amount of marijuana," she said.

If approved, the legislation would into effect Nov 1.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 23, 2013, 01:29:04 pm
Oklahoma Senate to review state's medicinal marijuana policy, penalty
http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws (http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/ok-senate-to-debate-marijuana-laws)

The Rogers County attention grabber opposes it not on the grounds that its some form of evil, but rather that people would have better access to it.

Someone obtaining it from legal commercial means, is worse than clandestine encounters with shady characters?
Seems to say a lot about their economy.  ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 23, 2013, 02:24:12 pm
I got an email from an acquaintance up in Nederland, Colorado.

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.

Who said dope doesn't make you stupid?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on January 23, 2013, 02:29:03 pm

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.


Which means their hours will be cut to below 30 hours a week.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on January 23, 2013, 04:26:30 pm
I got an email from an acquaintance up in Nederland, Colorado.

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.

Who said dope doesn't make you stupid?

You seem to be knowledgeable about this.....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 23, 2013, 05:30:46 pm
I got an email from an acquaintance up in Nederland, Colorado.

Now that MJ is legal, they are all pissed off that the industry will be dominated by Wal-Mart sized corporate growers.

Who said dope doesn't make you stupid?


More likely pissed that the margins will decline due to the reduced risk of adverse outcomes from cultivation and sale.  Local enforcement has always been the big risk, so if that is gone, it is just a crap shoot if the Feds would get you.  No extra risk...no reason for huge profit margins.

We are already seeing the reduction in illicit profits for decriminalized/legalized marijuana.  No more Mexican drug lords - who is gonna import expensive foreign mj if there is just as good available here at half price or less!  Instead de-emphasis of the drug cartels.  Now, on to coke and meth....

How much more does it take before reality reaches the Fed level?







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on January 23, 2013, 05:59:23 pm
Growers in Colorado are licensed and closely monitored. The system is regulated to the point that conservatives might even become believers in operations under government control. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 23, 2013, 08:42:24 pm

More likely pissed that the margins will decline due to the reduced risk of adverse outcomes from cultivation and sale.  Local enforcement has always been the big risk, so if that is gone, it is just a crap shoot if the Feds would get you.  No extra risk...no reason for huge profit margins.

We are already seeing the reduction in illicit profits for decriminalized/legalized marijuana.  No more Mexican drug lords - who is gonna import expensive foreign mj if there is just as good available here at half price or less!  Instead de-emphasis of the drug cartels.  Now, on to coke and meth....

How much more does it take before reality reaches the Fed level?

Given the number of local law makers/enforcers that believe federal law is optional (at least when it comes to guns and health insurance) a Fed epiphany might happen quicker than we might have believed possible.  Certainly within our lifetimes.

On a more local level, the enforcement mindset is also in need of a serious re-boot. 
Deputy Dangle will be counting on WOD grants and overtime to help get little Debbie her braces, while his boss depends on a little brown bag of cash left under the big rock way yonder to pay off his casino debt. 
Perhaps the only way to deal with their resistance to a change in the status quo (and the money flow) is to pay good cops what they are worth.

Just yesterday, however, an appeals court refused to reconsider the federal rule that classifies marijuana as more dangerous than methamphetamine, but that's just a bump in the road in our long journey out of the dark ages.

When Google or Verizon (for example) dont hesitate at seriously expanding in Oklahoma, we will know we are on the right path.


 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 24, 2013, 06:49:19 am
Given the number of local law makers/enforcers that believe federal law is optional (at least when it comes to guns and health insurance) a Fed epiphany might happen quicker than we might have believed possible.  Certainly within our lifetimes.

On a more local level, the enforcement mindset is also in need of a serious re-boot.  
Deputy Dangle will be counting on WOD grants and overtime to help get little Debbie her braces, while his boss depends on a little brown bag of cash left under the big rock way yonder to pay off his casino debt.  
Perhaps the only way to deal with their resistance to a change in the status quo (and the money flow) is to pay good cops what they are worth.

Just yesterday, however, an appeals court refused to reconsider the federal rule that classifies marijuana as more dangerous than methamphetamine, but that's just a bump in the road in our long journey out of the dark ages.

When Google or Verizon (for example) dont hesitate at seriously expanding in Oklahoma, we will know we are on the right path.

 


I used to believe that stuff about "within our lifetimes".... 45 years ago.  No more.  Neither I, nor you will live long enough to see the powers that be voluntarily give up the cash flow created by illicit marijuana.  (I am still a little bit surprised that the US repealed prohibition!)

As for paying good cops what they are worth...whew!  What a can of worms that one is.  But the principle also applies to firemen, teachers, etc.  And the institutionalized resistance we see to that concept is pretty well gonna guarantee it can't happen.  See the posts on Fallin's tax cuts....apply liberally.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on January 24, 2013, 08:25:16 am

Neither I, nor you will live long enough to see the powers that be voluntarily give up the cash flow created by illicit marijuana.

I used to believe this as well. But seeing voters in Washington and Colorado pass initiatives and their states seeing tourism dollars made me reconsider. Then seeing Pat Robertson flip and talk about medical marijuana made me sit up and pay attention. Medical treatments go in cycles and homeopathic and natural solutions are really fashionable right now.

You are right. It is really all about cash. But once some state shows it to be revenue positive, the game will change.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on January 24, 2013, 10:35:19 am

You are right. It is really all about cash. But once some state shows it to be revenue positive, the game will change.

You've seen how slowly Oklahoma tends to act in regards to progression.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 24, 2013, 10:58:17 am
This is at the Federal level, though.  Obama has been about as "liberal" as I have ever heard a President be, and he says it isn't a priority with him.  Which is a king-dog, major fail!  (To decriminalize mj)

Saving $20 billion a year in Federal enforcement.  Saving how many billions nationwide for incarceration costs.  Saving how many lives - a few here and many more across the border for just stopping enforcement of mj importation.  

I have a feeling that mj cross border movement is the real monetary driver for the drug cartels...just a gut feeling kind of thing based on the relative volume of useage and kinds of dollars the news is always hawking about as the money involved.  If there is $800 billion in mj, and $30 billion in cocaine and heroin, then the driver is mj.  (Anyone have some good numbers on the relative annual values??).  That means that the criminal organizations would shrink dramatically, the amount per person involved in trafficing would go down - quite possibly to pretty much nothing.  If someone is making $50,000 a week selling mj and legally, it goes to $50 a week...or less, the activity cannot be supported.  Nobody will be "selling" high dollar mj.  And if all those dealers turn to the other drugs, well, there is a limited market, spread across relatively more suppliers.  Price competition, fewer suppliers, collapse of the industry possibly?  Harvard School of Business 101.

Get the profits OUT of illicit drugs and the business will fail!  By definition.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 24, 2013, 11:37:48 am
Get the profits OUT of illicit drugs and the business will fail!  By definition.

The old-school train of thought is that seizure and forfeiture of "drug profits" would accomplish that, but it is self-serving and just fuels corruption.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM3KqIt3f64

Its also unduly hard on off-the grid country folk that don't trust banks and always carry cash, sometimes loosing their life savings because a drug dog picked up on the traces commonly found on paper currency. 
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/31/drug-search-trekies-stopped-searched-illinois_n_1364087.html

The idea of the Mexican Cartels going belly up because no one needs their products anymore... they may have to change their business model to peddling donkey porn just to survive once that happens.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on January 24, 2013, 11:42:59 am
(https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/555437_585579198122722_613999819_n.jpg)

By the time Okiehoma gets around to this issue, the thrill will be gone....or we'll all be dead whatever comes first.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on January 24, 2013, 12:53:04 pm
I have a feeling that mj cross border movement is the real monetary driver for the drug cartels...just a gut feeling kind of thing based on the relative volume of useage and kinds of dollars the news is always hawking about as the money involved.  If there is $800 billion in mj, and $30 billion in cocaine and heroin, then the driver is mj.  (Anyone have some good numbers on the relative annual values??).  

Only that you should never believe the value you're told on the news. If I had had to pay those prices when I was just leaving high school I would have starved to death.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on January 24, 2013, 01:49:58 pm
We all know that if you couldn't grow you're own Marijuana that it would be legal and sold everywhere, like yesterday.
But there is no way that the GubMint will ever cut out the middle man. Even with huge profits from taxation on every pack sold. They want every last penny from anything grown and if that can't happen. The horror stories will continue about the use and abuse. And people will still be incarcerated for years at a rediculous cost to every State and the Country.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 24, 2013, 05:57:52 pm
We all know that if you couldn't grow you're own Marijuana that it would be legal and sold everywhere, like yesterday.
But there is no way that the GubMint will ever cut out the middle man. Even with huge profits from taxation on every pack sold. They want every last penny from anything grown and if that can't happen. The horror stories will continue about the use and abuse. And people will still be incarcerated for years at a rediculous cost to every State and the Country.


Unless we quit electing people like Inhofe....over and over again.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 24, 2013, 08:06:26 pm
Only that you should never believe the value you're told on the news. If I had had to pay those prices when I was just leaving high school I would have starved to death.

While "the news" arent the ones making those numbers up, they are the ones too lazy to go out and do some unbiased research.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 24, 2013, 08:38:41 pm

Is it just me, or is Ke$ha actually Ann Coulter...??
I mean, yeah, she does look younger than Ann, but there is also a lot of makeup involved.  Just seems too close to be a coincidence...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOubzHCUt48





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on January 25, 2013, 02:06:11 pm
I'm against it. We don't need more people with altered brains on the streets. We have enough problems with alcohol as it is, we don't need legal MJ on top of that... No way.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 25, 2013, 02:08:49 pm
I'm against it. We don't need more people with altered brains on the streets. We have enough problems with alcohol as it is, we don't need legal MJ on top of that... No way.

Because everyone who has ever used alcohol is a reprobate lush. 

Think responsibly  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on January 25, 2013, 02:11:23 pm
I'm against it. We don't need more people with altered brains on the streets. We have enough problems with alcohol as it is, we don't need legal MJ on top of that... No way.

Here dickhead, take a hit! http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/11/vaportini-alcohol-vaporizer_n_2458038.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 25, 2013, 06:44:45 pm
I'm against it. We don't need more people with altered brains on the streets. We have enough problems with alcohol as it is, we don't need legal MJ on top of that... No way.


Again...just showing off what you don't know...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on February 04, 2013, 04:57:12 pm
HOLY SMOKIES! RUN THIS UP THE FLAG POLE!
Quote
MONDAY, FEB 4, 2013 04:06 PM CST
Dems move to change federal pot laws
Reps. Earl Blumenauer and Jared Polis to introduce bill Tuesday to end prohibition
BY ASSOCIATED PRESS
http://www.salon.com/2013/02/04/dems_move_to_change_federal_pot_laws/

“You folks in Washington and my friends in Colorado really upset the apple cart,” Blumenauer said. “We’re still arresting two-thirds of a million people for use of a substance that a majority feel should be legal. … It’s past time for us to step in and try to sort this stuff out.”


“We’re seeing enormous political momentum to undo the drug war failings of the past 40 years,” said Bill Piper, director of national affairs for the Drug Policy Alliance, who has been working with lawmakers on marijuana-related bills. “For the first time, the wind is behind our back.”


Blumenauer said he expects to introduce the tax-code legislation as well as a bill that would reschedule marijuana under the Controlled Substances Act, allowing states to enact medical marijuana laws without fear that federal authorities will continue raiding dispensaries or prosecuting providers. It makes no sense that marijuana is a Schedule I drug, in the same category as heroin and a more restrictive category than cocaine, Blumenauer said.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 04, 2013, 06:58:15 pm
Keep in mind, I'm a proponent of such legislation even though I won't be partaking.  True fiscal conservatives should laud this legislation as long past due.  We waste billions every year policing, prosecuting, and warehousing people for a drug which is far less deleterious to society than alcohol.

I still could not pass the opportunity for a clever re-write:

Quote
MONDAY, FEB 4, 2013 04:06 PM CST
Dems move to change federal pot laws
Reps. Earl Blumenauer and Jared Polis to introduce bill Tuesday to end prohibition
BY ASSOCIATED PRESS
http://www.salon.com/2013/02/04/dems_move_to_change_federal_pot_laws/

“You dudes in Washington and my homies in Colorado really knocked over the twinkie wagon, I mean the taco truck, ah um...wait man...oh yeah upset the apple cart!” Blumenauer said. “We’re still busting I mean like millions and millions of good people for smoking really high grade weed that a majority of people should try! … It’s HIGH time for us to step in and try to snort this stuff out.”


“We’re seeing enormous political momentum to undo, oh, wait...where was I?  Oh, that drug war thing has just sucked! who's got some Dr. Pepper, I've got killer cotton mouth,” said Bill Piper, director of national affairs for the Drug Policy Alliance, who has been working with lawmakers on marijuana-related bills. “For the first time, the smoke is behind our back.”


Blumenauer said he expects to introduce the tax-code legislation as well as a bill that would reschedule marijuana under the Controlled Substances Act, allowing states to enact medical marijuana laws without fear that federal authorities will continue raiding dispensaries or prosecuting providers. It makes no sense that marijuana is a Schedule I drug, in the same category as heroin and a more restrictive category than cocaine, Blumenauer said.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 04, 2013, 08:24:53 pm
Conan,
That was great!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on February 19, 2013, 02:58:37 pm
This doesn't help the case for legalization.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281102/Drivers-stoned-road-test-evaluate-Washingtons-marijuana-DUI-laws-entertaining-video.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on February 19, 2013, 03:11:25 pm
This doesn't help the case for legalization.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281102/Drivers-stoned-road-test-evaluate-Washingtons-marijuana-DUI-laws-entertaining-video.html

Meh...

I have many friends and friends of docs who will not seek a script because of this: http://www.wbur.org/2013/02/19/marijuana-laws

One potential scenario: A doctor who becomes a medical marijuana patient would be at “significant risk” of violating his or her license to practice medicine, according to Bill Ryder, legislative and regulatory counsel for the Massachusetts Medical Society.

Come on Feds...follow suit in the states rights cause. We know it's hard with all those state whacko's on the extreme right trying to be revolutionaries and take over our culture from the bottom up. Let it go Federalies! The fight is on!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 19, 2013, 03:23:01 pm
This doesn't help the case for legalization.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2281102/Drivers-stoned-road-test-evaluate-Washingtons-marijuana-DUI-laws-entertaining-video.html

You're not supposed to be driving on medical marijuana (or any prescription painkillers) so this shouldn't matter.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on February 19, 2013, 04:04:05 pm
So basically they found out that if you get so stoned you don't really want to drive you can't drive, unless you're a habitual user in which case you apparently can drive OK. And even if you're not, you've gotta smoke a gram of some of the most potent marijuana in existence inside of an hour or two to get stoned enough to be visibly impaired. TV news is awesome.

The Daily Mail is awesome, too, completely misrepresenting the text of the story in the lede.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 19, 2013, 09:59:47 pm
If you can't believe the insurance industry, who can you trust?  They say that stoned drivers have fewer accidents...

One study by the U.S. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration shows that drivers with THC in their systems have accident responsibility rates lower than those of drug-free drivers.

http://www.4autoinsurancequote.com/uncategorized/reasons-why-marijuana-users-are-safe-drivers/


And as always, Sauerkraut is wrong.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on February 19, 2013, 10:30:19 pm
If you can't believe the insurance industry, who can you trust?  They say that stoned drivers have fewer accidents...

One study by the U.S. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration shows that drivers with THC in their systems have accident responsibility rates lower than those of drug-free drivers.

http://www.4autoinsurancequote.com/uncategorized/reasons-why-marijuana-users-are-safe-drivers/


And as always, Sauerkraut is wrong.



Nah, not always.

It's tasty on Brätwurst.

 ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 19, 2013, 11:23:50 pm
Meanwhile, the lost war wages on...

A 65-year-old woman recently came under suspicion for having a Buckeye leaf decal on her car.  The cops mistook it for a marijuana symbol.
“It’s just amazing they would be that dumb,”  Bonnie Jonas-Boggioni said.

She lives in Plano, Texas, but she grew up in Columbus and is known as a lifelong Buckeyes fan.
She has served as president of the Ohio State Alumni Club in the Dallas-Fort Worth area.

On Feb. 4, Jonas-Boggioni and husband Guido Boggioni, 66, were driving home to Plano after a trip to Columbus to attend the funeral of his mother, Eleanor, 92.
They were in the westbound lanes of I-40, a few miles east of Memphis, when a black police SUV with flashing lights pulled them over, Jonas-Boggioni said. A second black SUV soon pulled up behind the first one.
“Knowing I wasn’t speeding, I couldn’t imagine why,” she said.

Two officers approached, one on each side of the car.
“They were very serious,” she said. “They had the body armor and the guns.”

“What are you doing with a marijuana sticker on your bumper?” he asked her.
She explained that it is actually a Buckeye leaf decal, just like the ones that Ohio State players are given to put on their helmets to mark good plays.

“He looked at me like I was speaking a foreign language,” she said.

The officer then explained that someone from outside his jurisdiction — apparently another officer — had spotted the leaf sticker and thought it might indicate that the car was carrying marijuana, Jonas-Boggioni said.
She was too rattled to notice what police department the officers represented. But she suspects that a joint drug-interdiction effort was under way because they had passed several law-enforcement vehicles from different agencies.

Neither the Tennessee Highway Patrol nor the Shelby County sheriff’s office in Memphis had information about the traffic stop. A marijuana sticker would not be a sufficient reason to stop a car, said a spokeswoman for the West Tennessee Drug Task Force.

Before they let her go on her way, the officers advised Jonas-Boggioni to remove the decal from her car.
“I said, ‘You mean in Tennessee?’ and he said, ‘No, permanently.’


http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/life_and_entertainment/2013/02/14/buckeye-leaf-mistaken-by-police-out-of-state.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacks fan on February 19, 2013, 11:38:02 pm
Nah, not always.

It's tasty on Brätwurst.

 ;D

Or corned beef or pastrami........  :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on February 20, 2013, 08:29:37 am
Thats hilarious Patric. The Police might want to do a "compliance" check over at Starship and other Head Shops around town. Since them stickers might lead to more traffic stops.  ::)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 20, 2013, 09:22:06 am
If you can't believe the insurance industry, who can you trust?  They say that stoned drivers have fewer accidents...

One study by the U.S. National Highway Transportation Safety Administration shows that drivers with THC in their systems have accident responsibility rates lower than those of drug-free drivers.

http://www.4autoinsurancequote.com/uncategorized/reasons-why-marijuana-users-are-safe-drivers/


And as always, Sauerkraut is wrong.



Except the website you sourced is not an "insurance industry" web site.  It's nothing more than a commercial solicitation site for car insurance quotes. There are multiple problems with this "report".  Some "studies" cited are now 30 years old, there is no bibliography of all these other studies, and we have no idea if the Dutch authority listed is actually a scientific or governmental authority.  If NHTSA ever actually did agree that pot improves driving performance, that is no longer their position on it, according to information I sourced directly from NHTSA below.

I'm only bringing this up because there's a good lesson here about how much crap circles the internet with very little to corroborate what they claim.  That problem has a lot to do with the half truths, hyperbole, and outright lies in the political sphere that help widen the political divide in this country, but I digress.  There are probably nuggets of truth scattered around the report you cited, but there is also a lot of un-named sources for the author's conclusions.  From personal experience, I can honestly say smoking pot while snow skiing made me feel much more focused but I have no empirical evidence to back that up, only stoned recollection.

This is the official word on what the National Highway Safety Transportation Board says.  Noted the bibliography with referenced reports at the end.


Quote
Smoking marijuana can seriously impair the ability to drive a motor vehicle safely, but many marijuana users actually believe they drive better while under the influence of cannabis.

An article on this website titled Marijuana Causes Many Deaths Reported as 'Accidents', drew comments from many self-reported marijuana users who insisted their driving is not affected by being high, and in fact, some were adamant that their driving skills actually improve under the influence.

But scientific research does not back up these claims. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration reviewed 25 published studies conducted on the effects that smoking marijuana has on driving skills and performance. The review was part of the agency's effort to determine the effects on driving of more than 16 illegal and prescription drugs.

The resulting NHTSA Fact Sheets not only outlined the overall effects of smoking marijuana on users, but detailed specifically how smoking weed can impair driving skills. Following are some of the findings.

1. Problem Solving
One of the known effects of marijuana is that it hampers the ability call on past experiences to solve immediate problems, which could be dangerous in an emergency traffic situation. Studies have also shown that marijuana can cause problems with memory and learning, distorted perception, and difficultly in thinking.

2. Attention Span
Research has shown that heavy users of marijuana have difficulty in sustaining attention over an extended period of time. Other studies have found that weed smokers are hampered in shifting attention to deal with changes in their environment. Heavy smokers also have problems registering, processing and using new information. All of these factors can hamper driving ability.

3. Driving Performance
Several studies have reported that marijuana users exhibit decreased vehicle handling performance, increased reaction times and impairment in estimating time and distance. Other studies have found that marijuana impairs the driver's ability to maintain headway and maintain sustained vigilance.

4. Perceptual Functions
Laboratory studies of drivers using marijuana have found that smokers' sensory functions are not severely impaired, but their perceptual functions are significantly altered. Researchers report lab results that sleepiness and uncoordination can also affect driving skills of smokers.

5. Dose-Related Impairment
Several studies have shown that driving impairment is dose-related. In other words, the more someone has smoked, the greater the impairment. This is particularly true in regards to the ability to concentrate and maintain attention, and for hand-eye coordination.

6. Distortion
Other skills impaired by marijuana use that can cause the loss of driving ability include distortion of time and distance, impairment of retention time and tracking, and vigilance and loss of coordination. These impairments can be dangerous when driving at higher speeds or over longer periods of time, research shows.

7. Short-Term Focus
Some studies have shown that marijuana users can indeed focus their concentration and actually improve their driving performance by overcompensating for their self-perceived impairment. However, drivers in these studies were able to do this for only a brief period of time. The greater the demands placed on the driver in these studies, the less they were able to overcome their impairment.

8. Prolonged Trips
Research has found that smoking marijuana can have significant impairment during monotonous or prolonged driving. The longer the drive, and the more monotonous the driving becomes, the greater the chance that reaction times are impaired.

9. Long-Term Effects
Generally, marijuana use significantly impairs a driver's skills for the first 1-2 hours, but driving simulator studies have found impaired skills up to 3 hours. Some studies have recorded residual effects on driving up to 24 hours after marijuana use.

10. Increases Alcohol's Effects
Studies have found that simultaneously smoking marijuana and drinking greatly increases the impairment effects of both drugs. Experts say that mixing alcohol and marijuana does not have an additive effect on driving skills, but a multiplying effect. The resulting impairment is greater than either drug would be by itself.

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. " Drugs and Human Performance Fact Sheets: Cannabis / Marijuana." March 2004

National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. "Drug-Impaired Driving: Understanding the Problem and Ways to Reduce It: A Report to Congress (PDF)" December 2009

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/drugged/tp/Ways-That-Marijuana-Impairs-Driving.htm

Related information from NHTSA:

http://www.nhtsa.gov/People/injury/research/job185drugs/cannabis.htm

Quote
Performance Effects: The short term effects of marijuana use include problems with memory and learning, distorted perception, difficultly in thinking and problem-solving, and loss of coordination. Heavy users may have increased difficulty sustaining attention, shifting attention to meet the demands of changes in the environment, and in registering, processing and using information. In general, laboratory performance studies indicate that sensory functions are not highly impaired, but perceptual functions are significantly affected. The ability to concentrate and maintain attention are decreased during marijuana use, and impairment of hand-eye coordination is dose-related over a wide range of dosages.Impairment in retention time and tracking, subjective sleepiness, distortion of time and distance, vigilance, and loss of coordination in divided attention tasks have been reported. Note however, that subjects can often “pull themselves together” to concentrate on simple tasks for brief periods of time. Significant performance impairments are usually observed for at least 1-2 hours following marijuana use, and residual effects have been reported up to 24 hours.

Effects on Driving: The drug manufacturer suggests that patients receiving treatment with Marinol® should be specifically warned not to drive until it is established that they are able to tolerate the drug and perform such tasks safely. Epidemiology data from road traffic arrests and fatalities indicate that after alcohol, marijuana is the most frequently detected psychoactive substance among driving populations. Marijuana has been shown to impair performance on driving simulator tasks and on open and closed driving courses for up to approximately 3 hours. Decreased car handling performance, increased reaction times, impaired time and distance estimation, inability to maintain headway, lateral travel, subjective sleepiness, motor incoordination, and impaired sustained vigilance have all been reported. Some drivers may actually be able to improve performance for brief periods by overcompensating for self-perceived impairment. The greater the demands placed on the driver, however, the more critical the likely impairment. Marijuana may particularly impair monotonous and prolonged driving. Decision times to evaluate situations and determine appropriate responses increase. Mixing alcohol and marijuana may dramatically produce effects greater than either drug on its own.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 20, 2013, 11:23:22 am
The Police might want to do a "compliance" check over at Starship and other Head Shops around town. Since them stickers might lead to more traffic stops.  ::)

I would not think a headshop would want to sell a buckeyes decal.  What would that be, the "K-2" of bumberstickers?

http://www.ksn.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=3947794


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on February 26, 2013, 10:52:23 am
Senate panel kills medical marijuana bill

http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1503758629/Oklahoma-Senate-panel-kills-medical-marijuana-bill (http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1503758629/Oklahoma-Senate-panel-kills-medical-marijuana-bill)

Quote
A Senate committee on Monday defeated a proposal to legalize the medical use of marijuana in Oklahoma, but the bill’s author said she considers it a victory that the measure was even granted a legislative hearing. Members of the Senate Health and Human Services Committee voted 6-2 against the measure in a party-line vote with Republicans in opposition. “I think it’s a step in the right direction in terms of moving it forward and getting some indication of what people’s reservations are so we’ll know what to address,” said Sen. Constance Johnson, D-Oklahoma City, who has introduced several bills over the last six years to allow for the medical use of marijuana or ease the penalties for possession of the drug.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 26, 2013, 12:21:29 pm
Senate panel kills medical marijuana bill
http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1503758629/Oklahoma-Senate-panel-kills-medical-marijuana-bill (http://normantranscript.com/headlines/x1503758629/Oklahoma-Senate-panel-kills-medical-marijuana-bill)

So Republicans dont get cancer?
I didnt know that was what it was all about.  :(


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on February 28, 2013, 08:55:14 am
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/justice-department-poised-respond-states-legalized-marijuana-100308025--election.html

so it really begins....


I read about our councilors attempting to take control of the city's marketing efforts from our deeply bedded duplicitous chamber in Warren's World today. Then I saw this article on Yahoo.

Poor Tulsa. They will never get in front of the curve....the rest the country is so much more appealing.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 28, 2013, 09:17:09 am
I got a contact buzz just from looking at the image connected to the story.

(http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/AnnVQYcW_z_SXWg_uXLY2A--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NQ--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/theticket/98543789.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on February 28, 2013, 10:34:42 am
Reduced marijuana penalties OK’d by Oklahoma panel

http://newsok.com/reduced-marijuana-penalties-okd-by-oklahoma-panel/article/3759545 (http://newsok.com/reduced-marijuana-penalties-okd-by-oklahoma-panel/article/3759545)

Quote
Criminal penalties for marijuana possession in Oklahoma would be reduced under a bill passed without objection by a House committee. The House Public Safety Committee voted 14-0 on Wednesday for the bill that would make first and second offenses of marijuana possession a misdemeanor. Under current law, a second offense is a felony punishable by between two and 10 years in prison. Stillwater Democratic Rep. Cory Williams says he would have preferred to make all marijuana possession offenses misdemeanors, but that such a proposal was unlikely to pass the committee.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 07, 2013, 08:42:20 pm
Illinois Medical Marijuana House Committee Vote: Panel OKs Pot Plan
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/07/illinois-medical-marijuana-house_n_2828463.html


Quote
"Seriously ill people who receive significant relief from their use of marijuana should not be treated like criminals," Riffle said. "If their doctors believe treating their conditions with medical marijuana will improve the quality of their lives, they should not have to risk being arrested and prosecuted."

Opponents to the bill argue it would increase recreational use of the drug especially among teens, though such attitudes are quickly shrinking in to the minority: A February poll of Illinois residents overwhelmingly support the legalization of marijuana in the state.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 08, 2013, 08:07:53 pm
U.S. States Race to Put New Medical Marijuana Laws on the Books
http://www.counselheal.com/articles/4258/20130307/u-s-states-race-put-new-medical-marijuana-laws-books.htm


Quote
In the wake of marijuana legalization in Colorado and Washington, many states that had not considered legalizing medical marijuana are. In fact, Florida, Illinois and New Hampshire are allowing for similar allowances. Other states with medical marijuana programs are seeking to improve or expand their programs.

Medical marijuana has become increasingly popular. Though the federal government officially says that the medical benefits of marijuana are still relatively unproven, three dozen states either have laws allowing it or are considering it. More people believe that marijuana legalization should be legal in general. According to the Central Florida News, 51 percent of Americans believe favorably in legalization.

It seems that lawmakers are taking notice. In Illinois, the Huffington Post reports that the House of Illinois will be considering a bill to approve medical marijuana. Though this would not be the first time that such a bill was considered in the state of Illinois, legislators believe that they have tightened regulations to make the bill more appealing on both sides of the aisle. Medical marijuana would be accessible to people with a qualifying condition, like cancer, HIV and multiple sclerosis, and who have a special identification card. The approved users would be able to purchase cannabis at any of the 66 state-approved dispensaries.

In the Northeast, New Hampshire lawmakers will be considering the legalization of medical marijuana. The Associated Press reports that the legislature has previously passed three similar bills, all of which have been vetoed by the state's governor. This bill, if signed into law, would forbid out-of-state consumers from purchasing cannabis in the state's dispensaries, which was allowed in previous versions.

In Florida, legislators filed a bill this week would allow medical marijuana in the state. Named the Cathy Jordan Medical Cannabis Act, the bill is named after the President of the Florida Cannabis Action Network. Ms. Jordan suffers from Lou Gehrig's disease and, earlier this week, police seized medical marijuana from her home.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on April 04, 2013, 06:29:44 pm

Quote
Poll: Majority Supports Legalizing Marijuana
For the first time in four decades of polling on the issue, Pew Research found that a majority of Americans supports legalizing marijuana.
Just over seven in 10 Americans say efforts to enforce marijuana laws “cost more than they are worth.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/04/04/poll-majority-supports-legalizing-marijuana/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Teatownclown on April 04, 2013, 07:16:28 pm
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/04/04/poll-majority-supports-legalizing-marijuana/

The opiate of the people...all because of George W. Bush. :D



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 21, 2013, 08:42:22 pm
(CBS News) Eighteen states and Washington D.C. have legalized medical marijuana. Connecticut joined that group last year.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18563_162-57580651/conn-cancer-patient-fights-marijuana-loophole/
While it's legal to use medical marijuana there, it's not legal to grow it, and there's no place open that legally sells it.

That's left some patients risking arrest to get the relief they say they need.
At first glance, 42-year-old Tracey Gamer Fanning appears to be a typical mom in suburban Connecticut.
She is not.

"I use medicinal marijuana," she said. "I am breaking the law right now because we don't have growers and distributors here in Connecticut."
In 2006, Fanning, then the mother of a 4-year-old and 18-month-old, was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer.
Racked by seizures, debilitating headaches, and oppressive pain medication she spent much of her time in bed -- until she tried marijuana.

"The first time I ever did it," Fanning said. "It gave me my life back."
Connecticut did not allow the medical use of marijuana at the time. The suggestion came from her doctor, Andrew Salner.
"It's always somewhat difficult for me because when I make a recommendation about trying marijuana," Salner said. "It is telling someone to potentially put themselves in harm's way to go purchase an illegal drug."

"This is the drawer of medications that I am very proud to say I don't take anymore," Fanning said. "This is my vaporizer which is a very safe way to use medicinal marijuana. It allows you not to get the carcinogens from smoking. It's not the traditional way people think of smoking pot, it turns it into a vapor."
If it weren't for marijuana, Fanning said, she would not be herself.
"I would not be this," she said. "And this is what everybody hopes to have six and a half years later after being diagnosed."



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 22, 2013, 12:33:55 pm
What kind of terminal brain cancer doesn't kill you in 7 years??  Just curious... makes me kind of think that life is a terminal disease.....oh, wait....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 11, 2013, 06:29:52 pm
I would never defend someone driving under the influence, but this Draconian measure goes way too far:


Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY — Governor Mary Fallin just approved an amendment to House Bill 1441 that could take some drivers by surprise. The sub-section deals with the definition “under the influence.” What’s new, is that the wording now says that any amount of a Schedule 1 drug like Marijuana found in your system can put you behind bars if you’re driving.

Officials can find those trace amounts in your body fluids.  Now the wording includes metabolites, which are part of the breakdown of many substances. Attorney Charles Sifers said with alcohol there is set number of .08.  With this law, there is no specific number.

“In this instance any amount of Schedule 1, or any metabolite from Schedule 1, presumes you under the influence.”

Sifers also said that if metabolites can now be used as part of the measurement, people may not be impaired from the drug, but will still register it in their system.

“Marijuana can stay in your system a long time.  Long after any impairing or effecting comes from smoking the marijuana.

Sifers believes blood tests will have to be closely monitored. Lawmakers have not responded to his concerns as of yet.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 11, 2013, 08:19:44 pm
I would never defend someone driving under the influence, but this Draconian measure goes way too far:



Agreed. Metabolites can be in the system for days and even a few weeks, IIRC.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 12, 2013, 11:21:22 am
Just another example of Fallin failin'.  Yeah,... we're gonna attract the top job creators in the world today....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 15, 2013, 07:12:08 pm
Just another example of Fallin failin'.  Yeah,... we're gonna attract the top job creators in the world today....


Steve Jobs would have never made it here.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on June 16, 2013, 01:27:46 pm
I'll make the case against legal MJ ~the drug is mind altering and we don't need any more people in public with altered brains we have enough problems  with alcohol and illegal drug use as it is without making MJ legal. The drug stays in your body for a full month. That heavy equipment operator in PA who knocked down that building and killed 6 people was on MJ. Do we want people at work running machines and equipment on drugs? I'm against legal MJ or any drugs. Get high on life not drugs. The only reason for MJ is to alter your brain and thinking process. However, I do think the laws for drug use are crazy and don't fit the crime. Giving someone 25 years for drug crimes is nuts, save that space for criminals. BTW, many criminals use drugs.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on June 16, 2013, 01:33:54 pm
Get high on life

I used to get high on life, then I built up a tolerance. Now it takes a week for me to seize the day.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on June 16, 2013, 04:36:52 pm
I used to get high on life, then I built up a tolerance. Now it takes a week for me to seize the day.

You must be getting old (too ;D).


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 16, 2013, 06:25:56 pm
I'll make the case against legal MJ ~the drug is mind altering and we don't need any more people in public with altered brains we have enough problems  with alcohol and illegal drug use as it is without making MJ legal.... I'm against legal MJ or any drugs. Get high on life not drugs.... BTW, many criminals use drugs.

You are making a case for alcohol prohibition.
It was tried, and failed.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 16, 2013, 07:24:36 pm
You are making a case for alcohol prohibition.
It was tried, and failed.



Just post a face palm pic, Patric, that's all that's warranted in this case.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 16, 2013, 08:51:44 pm
I'll make the case against legal MJ ~the drug is mind altering and we don't need any more people in public with altered brains we have enough problems  with alcohol and illegal drug use as it is without making MJ legal. The drug stays in your body for a full month. That heavy equipment operator in PA who knocked down that building and killed 6 people was on MJ. Do we want people at work running machines and equipment on drugs? I'm against legal MJ or any drugs. Get high on life not drugs. The only reason for MJ is to alter your brain and thinking process. However, I do think the laws for drug use are crazy and don't fit the crime. Giving someone 25 years for drug crimes is nuts, save that space for criminals. BTW, many criminals use drugs.


I was just gonna post the fact that your entire post is idiotic....but that would be redundant.  Is this an admission of what is going on with you?...too much marijuana??

And Conan got it right...considered yourself quadruple face palmed!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 17, 2013, 09:36:26 am
Just post a face palm pic, Patric, that's all that's warranted in this case.

Perhaps.  Im just curious as to the demographic of people that believe that garbage.
Orwell describes them as "slogan swallowers" in Nineteen Eighty-Four (a book that desperately needs to be put back on the required reading list)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 26, 2013, 10:55:07 pm

Misrepresenting designer drugs as "synthetic marijuana"


The term “synthetic weed” is a known misnomer. “Spice” is manufactured by spraying dried herbs with the chemical cannabicyclohexanol, a cannibinoid receptor agonist; it does not actually contain tetrahydrocannibinol (THC), the active ingredient of the cannabis plant.

“Spice” is mimicry, not duplication. It is simulation, not synthesis.

But CNN has a history of muddying the facts where marijuana is concerned. Just last March, they published this dubiously-titled ditty:  “Synthetic marijuana just as dangerous“, doubly misinformative in that it overstates the danger of real marijuana to those who don’t know better, and understates the danger of “Spice” to those who do.

http://skepticallyleft.com/2013/02/06/cnn-flubs-synthetic-weed-story/

Though "K2" and "Spice" are more akin to drugs like PCP, their false association with marijuana may be a smokescreen -- a deliberate attempt by various interests to snuff the growing nationwide trend towards marijuana law reform.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 08, 2013, 06:56:01 pm
Quote

CNN's chief medical expert Sanjay Gupta announced Wednesday night that he has reversed his blanket opposition to marijuana use.

Speaking to Piers Morgan, Gupta, who has a documentary on weed airing on Sunday, said he had previously helped to "mislead" the American public about the effects of the drug.

"I have apologized for some of the earlier reporting because I think, you know, we've been terribly and systematically misled in this country for some time," he said. "And I did part of that misleading."

He also wrote an op-ed called "Why I Changed My Mind On Weed." In it, he said that, while he had formerly derided medical marijuana supporters, he had done research that had shown him how beneficial it could be:

    I mistakenly believed the Drug Enforcement Agency listed marijuana as a schedule 1 substance because of sound scientific proof. Surely, they must have quality reasoning as to why marijuana is in the category of the most dangerous drugs that have "no accepted medicinal use and a high potential for abuse."

    They didn't have the science to support that claim, and I now know that when it comes to marijuana neither of those things are true. It doesn't have a high potential for abuse, and there are very legitimate medical applications. In fact, sometimes marijuana is the only thing that works.

Gupta's dramatic intervention could prove influential in the ongoing debate about American drug policy; he is considered a prominent enough voice on medical issues that President Obama wanted to name him Surgeon General during his first term. (Gupta declined.)











Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 08, 2013, 09:35:27 pm



Gupta's comments are one of those "blah, blah, blah, blah..." moments.  The information has been available for decades, including the history of exactly why it was proscribed.  DuPont and Hearst being two main drivers of the effort.  So any repentant conversion at this point is welcomed, but I look at it with an extremely jaded eye - why wait until now to come to his senses?

Wonder if there is some effort to stir up controversy for his documentary...make a few extra rating points so the commercials will be more valuable?  No, I didn't think so...no one would ever be motivated by money on this topic!

I guess we will see just how sincere this conversion is by how fervently he embraces the efforts to legalize the stuff.  Keeping in mind, there is none so pious as a repentant sinner!


I just love when I get to use a little sarcasm!!







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 13, 2013, 06:55:23 pm
Quote
STILLWATER, Okla. — Oklahoma’s arrest rate for marijuana possession is slightly above the national average, and arrest rates vary considerably among counties, according to an Oklahoma Watch analysis of 10 years’ worth of FBI data.

In 2010, the most recent year for which data is available, the median arrest rate by Oklahoma state and local law-enforcement agencies  was about 270 arrests per 100,000 population, slightly higher than the national rate of 256.

Over a decade, from 2001 to 2010, the average annual rates for Oklahoma counties varied widely, from fewer than 200 to more than 1,000 arrests per 100,000 residents.

A medium-size county on the eastern side of the state, Sequoyah, led the state with an annual average rate of 1,090 marijuana arrests per capita. The state’s two largest counties, Oklahoma and Tulsa, ranked in the middle, with about 300 arrests.

Meanwhile, two of Oklahoma’s smaller counties, Coal and Woods, place second and third, with 804 and 646 arrests.

Sequoyah County Sheriff Ron Lockhart said he wasn’t surprised to see his area ranked number one in marijuana arrests. Since taking office in 2009, Lockhart said he’d made drug arrests a priority by adding narcotics detectives and focusing on seizing drugs on Interstate 40, which runs through his county.

Stillwater Police Chief Ryan McCaghren, head of the largest police agency in Payne County, which ranked 13th out of the state’s 77 counties, cited two factors for his county ranking high: a large percentage of young people in the Stillwater area, and an aggressive drug and narcotics unit.

Payne County’s marijuana arrest rate is 405 per 100,000 residents.

“It is a priority,” McCaghren said of drug-related arrests in his department.

http://www.stwnewspress.com/local/x738624265/OKLAHOMA-WATCH-Enforcement-efforts-boost-pot-busts


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 08, 2013, 10:42:16 pm
Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., told attendees of a Tucson town hall meeting Thursday that the United States might want to legalize marijuana.

McCain made the relatively unprompted call for drug policy reform when an attendee asked why the U.S. should intervene in Syria's civil war, but not in Mexico, where drug cartels are locked in a deadly conflict with the government and each other.

The 2008 GOP presidential nominee then launched into a lesson about economics to explain drug smuggling and said he was open to legalizing marijuana.

"Let me just say what's going on in Mexico, in my view, to some degree, is our responsibility... because we're creating a demand for drugs in this country and when there's a demand, there's going to be a supply," McCain said.

"Legalize it!" some crowd members mumbled.

"Well, maybe we should legalize it," he responded, "we are certainly moving that way so far as marijuana is concerned, but I will respect the will of the people."

He then hammered home his economic explanation of drug smuggling, saying: "They are bringing these drugs across to our country because there's a demand for them and there's going to be a supply wherever there is a demand."
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2013/09/06/watch-mccain-says-maybe-we-should-legalize-marijuana-cites-economics-and-mexican-cartels


(http://i1054.photobucket.com/albums/s490/Gordon20024/42e731bd-f4ab-4136-8d1d-0cbd5c81e7a1_zps4eb89e9c.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 24, 2013, 08:23:35 pm
Quote
Arizona's medical-pot program actually works like this



As medical students at Georgetown University, we were indoctrinated with the traditions and values of our attending physicians. It was there that I was taught how to care for patients. It was there that I first heard and would hear repeatedly throughout my training: Pain is what the patient says it is.

That value is critical to the practice of medicine. It establishes a foundation of trust between physician and patient. It begins the conversation with, “I believe you,” so that you can move forward to “How can I help you?”

That value is what made reading The Arizona Republic editorial board’s comments about patients who use Arizona’s medical-marijuana law for chronic pain treatment so upsetting (“Cheech and Chong would love Arizona's medical-pot law,” Nov. 12).

I have been an emergency medicine physician for 12 years. One thing almost every one of my patients has in common is that they are in pain. Pain is the warning signal our bodies use to let us know that something is wrong.

Many patients present to the ER with chronic pain. Old injuries (reflex sympathetic dystrophy, arthritis, malocclusion, poor wound healing), adhesions (any abdominal surgery), migraines, chest pain, joint and extremity pain (rheumatoid arthritis, autoimmune disorders, septic joints, bone spurs), pelvic pain. Chronic pain encompasses all of these things as well as many others.

Does that make it less real? Should I turn them away from the emergency room because chronic pain just couldn’t be a reason someone would turn to a physician for help and relief? Fakers. Con artists. Drug addicts.

Unless you are old. Or have cancer. Right?

The 20-year-old with chronic pain due to spasticity from cerebral palsy. Wait. Sorry. He’s 20. Couldn’t be in that much pain yet. Faker. Con artist. Young, male recreational-drug user working the system.

According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academies, 100 million Americans suffer from chronic pain. Fakers. “Inherently dishonest” con artists. Or maybe it is that the Institute of Medicine is “chronically gullible,” to use a phrase in The Republic’s editorial.

These same patients are often encouraged by their physicians to seek alternative therapies when it seems that Western medicine has explored all of its options. When Vicodin turns to Oxycontin turns to Fentanyl, and then you are chemically dependent and out of options.

Yet these same doctors won’t write you a “recommendation.” It’s scary as a physician. I wouldn’t do it. Risk my license? Be reported to the Arizona Department of Health Services? Scrutinized? Exposed? Definitely not worth losing my job! So these same doctors print out patient records and hand them to their patients. “Go to a recommendation center. I can’t do it.”

Will Humble, director of the ADHS, is disingenuous when he says he wants the primary-care physicians to write medical-marijuana recommendations. That will not happen as long as the physician receives federal reimbursement for services (e.g. Medicare) and fears this will be taken away. That will not happen until physicians can speak freely without fear of reprisal. Mr. Humble is a smart guy. He knows this.

The patients who jump through the hoops to get their cards are then sent out to the dispensaries. Usually these are located in an industrial area. Surrounded by chain-link fences with cameras following your every move while a security guard looks you up and down. Dispensaries are kept away from the normal daily traffic of people. Away from the God-fearing, upstanding citizens we must protect from this ... non-lethal plant.

Why can’t they just go to a pharmacy where all the other drugs are? Simple. Because it’s still federally illegal.

But Arizona voters stood up three years ago and said, “Enough.” The federal government is wrong. The Drug Enforcement Agency is wrong. The propaganda of the “Reefer Madness” hysteria of the 1930s is just that — propaganda.

If you would do a little research, you would know there is no way to meaningful therapeutic research because the National Institute on Drug Abuse won’t release the “study drug” for research that does not specifically address drug abuse. They are the only ones with a federally authorized cannabis farm!

You want a dose-controlled pharmaceutical product? Did you know that cannabis concentrates are currently illegal under the Arizona criminal code? I would guess from The Republic’s uninformed editorial that editorial-board members do not.

Please, Republic editorial board, do readers a favor and use your platform responsibly. The editorial was sloppy journalism even as an opinion piece. If you disagree with how the Arizona Medical Marijuana Program works, you can at least make a respectable argument instead of throwing around judgments, accusations and raunchy references to pop culture. The readers of The Arizona Republic deserve better.

Gina Mecagni has practiced emergency medicine in the Valley for 12 years.
http://www.azcentral.com/opinions/articles/20131123medical-pot-arizona-mecagni.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 29, 2013, 07:28:36 pm
Quote
(CNN) -- Anti-marijuana crusaders like Kevin Sabet, while well-intentioned, are promoting policies that lead to more violence and disease in our society. In his recent CNN.com op-ed, Sabet argues we should keep marijuana illegal. But as long as marijuana remains illegal, profits from sales go to criminals and drug cartels, and adults will continue to be punished for using a substance less harmful than currently legal drugs.

Confused? Let's back up. For more than 80 years, our government has spent tens of billions of taxpayer dollars fighting a war against marijuana. We arrest three-quarters of a million adults every year, 87% for simple possession rather than production or sales of marijuana. Courtrooms turn into assembly lines churning out probationers -- mostly minorities -- with convictions that will make it virtually impossible to find employment.

The result? Marijuana is universally available, used by almost half of Americans at some point in their lives, and we've enriched murderous drug cartels fueling violence in Mexico that has claimed more than 60,000 lives.

Of course, we've been down this road before. During alcohol prohibition in the 1930s, federal agents raided speakeasies and busted barrels of illegally produced and imported booze. Meanwhile, bootleggers made money hand over fist, empowering criminals like Al Capone to turn Chicago into an urban war zone. And much like with marijuana today, even under alcohol prohibition most Americans who wanted a drink had no problem finding one.

Today, marijuana prohibition has proven itself just as disastrous a public policy failure as alcohol prohibition before it. Yet despite all the obvious similarities between the two, there's one key difference: Marijuana is dramatically safer than alcohol.

According to the Centers for Disease Control, excessive alcohol use is the third leading lifestyle-related cause of death. In a typical year, there are roughly 25,000 alcohol-induced deaths in the United States, most from long-term consequences like liver disease and some from acute alcohol poisoning brought on by binge drinking.

Marijuana, on the other hand, does not cause overdose deaths and comes with far fewer long-term health consequences. A 2009 Canadian study determined the annual health-related costs associated with alcohol are more than eight times greater per user than with marijuana. And, according to the Institute of Medicine, people who use marijuana are far less likely to become dependent than those who drink alcohol.

Even if you don't drink, alcohol can kill you. Federal agencies report that 40% of violent crimes in the U.S. are linked to alcohol use, whereas those same agencies report that marijuana users usually do not commit violent crimes. Alcohol plays a role in a third of all emergency room visits. As a prosecuting attorney, I often had police confess to me how much they loathed arresting drunks, given how often the situation escalated to violence. I never fielded similar complaints about marijuana consumers.

The irony is that these perverse policies are cheered on by organizations with names like "Save Our Society" that seem to believe chaos will somehow ensue if adults are no longer punished for using marijuana. The reality is that by punishing adults who would rather use marijuana, we're encouraging them to instead use alcohol -- a more dangerous and harmful, but legal, drug. Public policy should be geared toward reducing violence and disease, not maximizing them.

There is a better way. Polling shows a majority of Americans want marijuana taxed and regulated. A growing number of states are bucking our federal government's policy of absolute marijuana prohibition, and the Department of Justice recently signaled it will not challenge state laws that regulate the cultivation and sale of marijuana.

By doing so, we can take marijuana away from criminals and cartels and put it in the hands of licensed businesses. Obviously, those businesses should be subject to sensible rules ranging from where and when they can operate and who is able to invest in them, to restrictions on advertising.

Don't believe it could work? In 2009, Colorado's medical marijuana industry exploded, prompting the state to put in place the kinds of regulations I've just outlined. According to CDC data on youth drug use, from 2009 to 2011 -- a time when youth marijuana use increased nationally -- the percentage of Colorado teens using marijuana dropped more than any other state in the country and is now below the national average.

Marijuana is safer than alcohol; let's treat it that way. Adults who would prefer to use marijuana instead of alcohol should be free to do so. Just as significant, the law enforcement resources spent making those three-quarters of a million arrests could instead be devoted to preventing and solving real crimes.

In other words, regulating marijuana would make America a safer, healthier nation.


Editor's note: Dan Riffle is a former assistant prosecutor and the director of federal policies at the Marijuana Policy Project, the primary financial backer of the 2012 campaign to regulate marijuana in Colorado.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/22/opinion/riffle-marijuana-safety/






Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Nik on January 06, 2014, 03:11:46 pm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/govbeat/wp/2013/12/27/legalizing-pot-could-save-california-hundreds-of-millions-every-year-state-says/


Legalizing pot could save California hundreds of millions every year, state says


A proposed ballot measure that would legalize possession, use, growth and cultivation of marijuana would save the state of California hundreds of millions of dollars a year, according to a summary issued Thursday by the state attorney general’s office.

The summary [pdf], which Attorney General Kamala Harris’s (D) office releases for each proposed ballot measure, says the state would save “in the low hundreds of millions of dollars annually” on law enforcement costs associated with enforcing marijuana laws.

As an added bonus, Harris’s office said sales tax revenues could add more cash — again, in the “low hundreds of millions of dollars annually” — to the state’s bottom line.

Supporters of the proposed ballot measure would need to collect 504,760 signatures by May 23 to get the initiative — formally known by its ballot title, “Marijuana Legalization. Initiative Statute” — on the 2014 ballot.

The group backing legalization won’t actually be collecting signatures for this version of the bill; the lead sponsor told the San Francisco Chronicle that they had tweaked the initiative’s language to allow individuals to grow more marijuana for personal use. A revised version [pdf] of the ballot initiative, dubbed the “Marijuana Control, Legalization and Revenue Act of 2014,” is scheduled to be reviewed by the attorney general’s office by the end of January, the Chronicle reported.

Both versions of the measure would legalize the use, growth, cultivation, possession, transportation, storage and sale of marijuana, while creating a commission to regulate and issue business licenses for cultivation and sales.

The measure would apply retail sales taxes to marijuana sold for recreational purposes, while allocating that money equally to education, health care, law enforcement and drug abuse programs. It also prevents state and local law enforcement officials from enforcing federal marijuana laws.

Some California officials who back marijuana legalization had urged fellow supporters to wait until 2016, when the electorate will be larger, younger and more ethnically diverse, to put a measure on the fall ballot. But the ballot summary is so favorable that strategists think they will be able to pass the measure even in the lower-turnout midterm year.

California has been in the vanguard of the pro-marijuana movement. The state was the first in the country to legalize the possession and use of marijuana for medical purposes, back in 1996. In 2010, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R) signed legislation decriminalizing possession of an ounce or less.

If the ballot measure passes, California would be the third state to legalize marijuana, along with Washington and Colorado, where voters legalized the drug through ballot measures this year.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 07, 2014, 11:12:32 am
The measure would apply retail sales taxes to marijuana sold for recreational purposes, while allocating that money equally to education, health care, law enforcement and drug abuse programs.

In Oklahoma, that money instead goes into the pockets of the privileged and corrupt.
 
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2014/01/06/cnn-poll-support-for-legal-marijuana-soaring

"Attitudes toward the effects of marijuana and whether it is morally wrong to smoke pot have changed dramatically over time. That also means that marijuana use is just not all that important to Americans any longer."





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 07, 2014, 11:28:17 am
Amazing the claims opponents make about MJ- "it contains many carcinogens", "it’s a gateway drug”, “it leads to decreased motivation and productivity”, “it’s addictive" etc.

More people who eventually abuse prescription drugs likely started out drinking rather than with pot.  Tobacco and alcohol, which are perfectly legal, are known to cause many different cancers and debilitating diseases.  Hang overs cause loss of productivity and decreased motivation.  Regular pot smoking can lead to an emotional addiction, however there is no evidence that the body becomes physically addicted like it does to alcohol or tobacco.

Prohibition of marijuana has been a much bigger failure than prohibition of alcohol ever was.  Consider all the money wasted incarcerating people over pot and enforcing laws written nearly 100 years ago based on misinformation and fear, not to mention the loss of life in drug wars which would not exist if pot were legal.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on January 07, 2014, 12:14:53 pm
Amazing the claims opponents make about MJ- "it’s a gateway drug”,

I believe breast milk is a gateway drug to alcohol.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on January 07, 2014, 01:55:03 pm
Prohibition of marijuana has been a much bigger failure than prohibition of alcohol ever was.  Consider all the money wasted incarcerating people over pot and enforcing laws written nearly 100 years ago based on misinformation and fear, not to mention the loss of life in drug wars which would not exist if pot were legal.

Nancy Grace would like you to know that you must be fat and lazy, sitting on the sofa eating potato chips since you disagree with her.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 07, 2014, 02:14:12 pm
Nancy Grace would like you to know that you must be fat and lazy, sitting on the sofa eating potato chips since you disagree with her.

Does Nancy Grace still run her law office out of a double-wide?
...or was that her suicide hotline?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 07, 2014, 05:18:07 pm
I believe breast milk is a gateway drug to alcohol.


That explains a whole lot of things....!!

Guess I never was properly weaned....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 07, 2014, 05:19:57 pm
Nancy Grace would like you to know that you must be fat and lazy, sitting on the sofa eating potato chips since you disagree with her.

Can anyone actually stand to listen to that voice??  That would be the torture that would break me and make me talk...then would have to put a bullet through my head if had to listen to that.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 07, 2014, 06:30:34 pm
Gee Nate, thanks for wrecking the thread with this image:

(http://blogs.ajc.com/view-from-cop/files/2010/09/nancygrace.jpg)

Now where did I leave my bag of Nacho Cheese Doritos?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: nathanm on January 08, 2014, 08:49:59 am
Gee Nate, thanks for wrecking the thread with this image:

We aim to please!  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 08, 2014, 02:23:04 pm
Making it legal may a good thing for these states, and maybe more states until there is a national reform, but it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of employers that drug test as a pre-hire, random test, or test after an incident still consider it a banned substance, and I doubt the employers in these states that are national employers are going to give residents in Washington and Colorado a pass while enforcing it in other states.

Yes, I know alcohol is part of the screening process, and also now employers are using hair samples to check for drugs and nicotine as part of the screening process.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 08, 2014, 03:57:32 pm
Making it legal may a good thing for these states, and maybe more states until there is a national reform, but it doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of employers that drug test as a pre-hire, random test, or test after an incident still consider it a banned substance, and I doubt the employers in these states that are national employers are going to give residents in Washington and Colorado a pass while enforcing it in other states.

Yes, I know alcohol is part of the screening process, and also now employers are using hair samples to check for drugs and nicotine as part of the screening process.

You see (and point out) one of the problems with the shift in power from a stronger Federal government to the "Laissez Faire" approach Fox News would want us to take...they advocate Laissez Faire ONLY for big business, though.  Keep the Feds out of business and let them do as they please.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 08, 2014, 06:43:19 pm
Making it legal may a good thing for these states, and maybe more states until there is a national reform

Add another:

ALBANY, N.Y.—Gov. Andrew Cuomo said Wednesday he would move to make medical marijuana available to patients with serious illnesses, making New York the latest state to ease restrictions on the drug.

Currently, 21 states and the District of Columbia allow the use of marijuana for certain medical purposes.




“I’m an unlikely champion for this cause,” said Georgia Rep. Allen Peake, a businessman from Macon who attended the evangelical Dallas Theological Seminary. “Once people realize it’s not a 6-year-old smoking a joint, most folks realize this is the compassionate thing to do.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/medical-marijuana-gains-traction-in-the-deep-south/2014/02/09/f0720630-919f-11e3-97d3-f7da321f6f33_story.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 08, 2014, 10:40:33 pm
It willl be interesting how this plays out over the next couple of years. From an article in HuffPo, they sold $5million in the first week, and their projection is that the state will bring in an estimated $70mil in taxes the first year. (enough to cover the tax incentives for three Macy's DC's) I'll bet that tax revenue will decline after the newness wears off, and the possibility of other states making recreational use legal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/08/marijuana-sales-colorado_n_4552371.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/01/08/marijuana-sales-colorado_n_4552371.html)

I have been in favor of legalize, regulate from seed to sale, and tax marijuana since I was in high school in the late 70's, back when it was one of the biggest cash crops in OK.

My thought on the whole thing is that as long as it remains a class one narcotic at the federal level, it is by law a controlled substance, and if the fed is going to turn a blind eye to states legalizing the recreational sale, they need to get off their collective butts and change it's status.

Employers are going to have to wrestle with how to handle it, and as I said previously, I bet national companies, Home Depot, Lowes, department stores etc, will continue to say that it is part of their drug screening process for employees and any positive test can lead to termination regardless of state law.

Personally I haven't in 30+ years, because I realized my lively hood was more important.

Maybe this is the time to change it, I think that it's long overdue.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 22, 2014, 12:41:34 pm
Maybe this is the time to change it, I think that it's long overdue.

...But it's the #1 concern of the state narcos:

Mark Woodward, with the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics, said, “I’ve seen it wreck more lives than any other drug.”

http://kfor.com/2014/01/20/senator-pushes-for-legalization-of-marijuana

OK, thats a pretty insulated existence.  Time to get out of the gated community and see how many schools and roads really need their funding back.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 22, 2014, 01:26:15 pm
...But it's the #1 concern of the state narcos:

Mark Woodward, with the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics, said, “I’ve seen it wreck more lives than any other drug.”

http://kfor.com/2014/01/20/senator-pushes-for-legalization-of-marijuana

OK, thats a pretty insulated existence.  Time to get out of the gated community and see how many schools and roads really need their funding back.

Does Woodward realize alcohol is a drug?  That’s wrecked more lives than any other.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on January 22, 2014, 01:54:52 pm
Does Woodward realize alcohol is a drug?  That’s wrecked more lives than any other.

Probably not, and he will also tell you the same the next time he's mildly smootfaced at his own cocktail party.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on January 23, 2014, 03:14:19 pm
Nancy Grace debates.....Nancy Grace?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRb_t053SQ[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 23, 2014, 03:25:57 pm
Nancy Grace debates.....Nancy Grace?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRb_t053SQ[/youtube]

“She took six hundred peeeeels!”

Nancy Grace after Anna Nicole self immolated.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 24, 2014, 12:03:09 pm
Probably not, and he will also tell you the same the next time he's mildly smootfaced at his own cocktail party.

#winning


As for former prosecutor Nancy Grace...

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/nancy-grace/n45301/

and the smoking (ahem) gun:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Bqob-weFk[/youtube]



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on January 24, 2014, 12:35:54 pm
#winning


As for former prosecutor Nancy Grace...

http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/nancy-grace/n45301/

and the smoking (ahem) gun:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7Bqob-weFk[/youtube]



I think Mason’s choice in munchies must be Twinkies


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 11, 2014, 11:55:14 pm
Medical marijuana now used for pediatric epilepsy

http://www.fox23.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoid=4931293

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Medical-marijuana-now-used-for-pediatric-epilepsy/5AXv4FJKZkKppTX10nae7g.cspx

http://www.normantranscript.com/new/x1783667790/Senator-announces-new-nonpartisan-alliance-to-reform-marijuana-policy-in-Oklahoma




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on February 12, 2014, 11:30:51 am
Just decriminalize it altogether and skip the backdoor approach with medical MJ.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 12, 2014, 01:20:35 pm
Just decriminalize it altogether and skip the backdoor approach with medical MJ.

Im willing to wait and see if we have the maturity to show compassion to suffering children.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 12, 2014, 04:38:42 pm



OK, thats a pretty insulated existence.  Time to get out of the gated community and see how many schools and roads really need their funding back.

It's just another lie - he is obviously a dealer in such...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 13, 2014, 01:24:16 pm
It's just another lie - he is obviously a dealer in such...

He was on fox23 saying how he's seen it destroy families, but he sidestepped whether that was the drug or the enforcement.
Gov. Failin was at the same gig not wanting the kids driving high, and mumbling about gateway drug yadda yadda.

Within two years, this could all be a punchline in a sad joke:
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/marijuana-rally-and-lobby-day-draws-patients-supporters-to-oklahoma/article_cb1eb9d1-54e5-500d-9428-384264f64961.html

According to the poll, 89% of New Yorkers support making medical marijuana legal, and 57% favor the legalization of recreational marijuana
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/poll-support-legal-marijuana-gaining-new-york-state-article-1.1617325

Washington DC Decriminalizes Marijuana Possession
http://www.voanews.com/content/washington-dc-city-council-decriminalizes-marijuana-possession/1864280.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on February 14, 2014, 12:19:01 pm
Color me old fashioned, but I'm totally against making any mind altering drug legal, we have enough problems with drunk drivers and alcohol, we don't need to add to that list by making MJ legal. The chemicals in MJ can linger in the body over 4 weeks after it's last used, it will still show up on a drug test. We have enough people on the streets with altered brains as it is by using illegal drugs and alcohol clouding the brain--- So do we really want to add to that list? Funny to, they are banning tobbacco all over the place and it seems some people want to replace tobacco use with pot use, that makes alot of sense.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on February 14, 2014, 02:05:43 pm
Color me old fashioned, but I'm totally against making any mind altering drug legal, ...

Research at the University of York and Hull York Medical School has found a connection between depression and low levels of folate (folate comes from leafy vegetables, beans, cereal and sunflower seeds).  Dr. Simon Gilbody and his research team examined 11 previous studies involving 15,315 subjects to come to their conclusion.

These items all are mind-altering. I say ban them too.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 14, 2014, 02:15:33 pm
Color me old fashioned, but I'm totally against making any mind altering drug legal, we have enough problems with drunk drivers and alcohol, we don't need to add to that list by making MJ legal. The chemicals in MJ can linger in the body over 4 weeks after it's last used, it will still show up on a drug test. We have enough people on the streets with altered brains as it is by using illegal drugs and alcohol clouding the brain--- So do we really want to add to that list? Funny to, they are banning tobbacco all over the place and it seems some people want to replace tobacco use with pot use, that makes alot of sense.

It's more about personal liberty and responsibility.  I thought you were big on both those RWRE concepts..??  What happened to unwarranted government intrusion in people's lives?  You of all people, according to your past tendencies and expressed opinions should be in favor of legalization if for no other reason than the government butting into other's business!

And in another particular, it's more about since you seem to believe "We have enough people on the streets with altered brains as it is by using illegal drugs and alcohol clouding the brain" - your words!  Why compound the stupidity by spending tens of billions a year in our hard earned taxpayer money to prosecute and incarcerate the mj smokers?  It has been absolutely obvious even to the most insular - or should be if they had a brain - that mj usage has no adverse effect on either individuals or society, as compared to the impacts of cigarettes and alcohol.  Or even compared to the very real, documented dangers of bathtubs!  So why penalize people who just want to catch a buzz and mellow out with a bag of Doritos and watch some tv?




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 14, 2014, 02:16:12 pm
Research at the University of York and Hull York Medical School has found a connection between depression and low levels of folate (folate comes from leafy vegetables, beans, cereal and sunflower seeds).  Dr. Simon Gilbody and his research team examined 11 previous studies involving 15,315 subjects to come to their conclusion.

These items all are mind-altering. I say ban them too.

Oh, carp!  You just ruined my day - I love sunflower seeds!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 06, 2014, 12:44:03 pm
Only two days after the  City Council in D.C. voted to decriminalize marijuana (http://"http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/dc-council-votes-decriminalize-some-marijuana-use"), the Tulsa City Council is taking public comments on doing something similar.  
Hopefully it wont all be from the for-profit prison industry.

3/6/2014 6:00 PM 175 E. 2nd St., Tulsa, OK 74103
Council Chamber, 2nd Floor

11. HEARING OF PUBLIC COMMENTS
   b.    Public comment calling for council resolution urging the state legislature to recognize marijuana for medicinal purposes. 14-193-1
   

http://www.tulsacouncil.org/inc/search/meeting_detail.php?id=YWXNRYAV115201391436


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on March 06, 2014, 02:14:38 pm
Only two days after the  City Council in D.C. voted to decriminalize marijuana (http://"http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/dc-council-votes-decriminalize-some-marijuana-use"), the Tulsa City Council is taking public comments on doing something similar.  
Hopefully it wont all be from the for-profit prison industry.

3/6/2014 6:00 PM 175 E. 2nd St., Tulsa, OK 74103
Council Chamber, 2nd Floor

11. HEARING OF PUBLIC COMMENTS
   b.    Public comment calling for council resolution urging the state legislature to recognize marijuana for medicinal purposes. 14-193-1
   

http://www.tulsacouncil.org/inc/search/meeting_detail.php?id=YWXNRYAV115201391436


Let’s hope the patchouli parade doesn’t show up with bags of Doritos.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 06, 2014, 06:52:31 pm
Let’s hope the patchouli parade doesn’t show up with bags of Doritos.


Ooohhhh.....good idea!!  Doritos!!   And I have some Cheetos, too!!  Yay!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 06, 2014, 11:29:35 pm
Only two days after the  City Council in D.C. voted to decriminalize marijuana (http://"http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/dc-council-votes-decriminalize-some-marijuana-use"), the Tulsa City Council is taking public comments on doing something similar.  

11. HEARING OF PUBLIC COMMENTS
   b.    Public comment calling for council resolution urging the state legislature to recognize marijuana for medicinal purposes. 14-193-1

Oh, one small detail:  If you want public comments, invite the public.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on March 07, 2014, 08:06:43 am
And Paul Tay has entered the Fray. He actually went to the meeting in Camouflage Fatigues and sporting a NRA Camo hat. Fox 23 just couldn't help but put him on the air.

Not sure if he was the best representation of the Biking community. Or if Spandex Biker Fox would have pulled more weight when it comes to lobbying for Medical Doobies.  ::)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on March 07, 2014, 08:53:21 am
And Paul Tay has entered the Fray. He actually went to the meeting in Camouflage Fatigues and sporting a NRA Camo hat. Fox 23 just couldn't help but put him on the air.

Not sure if he was the best representation of the Biking community. Or if Spandex Biker Fox would have pulled more weight when it comes to lobbying for Medical Doobies.  ::)

Paul Tay never helps a cause.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 07, 2014, 10:51:34 am
And Paul Tay has entered the Fray. He actually went to the meeting in Camouflage Fatigues and sporting a NRA Camo hat. Fox 23 just couldn't help but put him on the air.
Not sure if he was the best representation of the Biking community. Or if Spandex Biker Fox would have pulled more weight when it comes to lobbying for Medical Doobies.  ::)

When you "solicit" public comments but dont actually inform the public of that, the result tends to be skewed towards those that just show up for meetings in general.  It was a squandered opportunity for not only the council, but for the media who either focused on distractions or missed the boat altogether.

Who could have been a better face for medical marijuana?

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/8dc3b87e92d36ab942bd5d00cfe7a74b/tumblr_mzt3wjvCpy1sr52l8o1_500.jpg)
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/48/b48dc196-07b6-598a-9f39-3e3b846cb57a/52e4c147850ec.image.jpg)
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/medical-marijuana-brings-oklahoma-families-to-colorado-to-treat-kids/article_e5eeb610-85de-52b9-a4f2-37a9e42b9737.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on March 07, 2014, 11:04:58 am
When you "solicit" public comments but dont actually inform the public of that, the result tends to be skewed towards those that just show up for meetings in general.  It was a squandered opportunity for not only the council, but for the media who either focused on distractions or missed the boat altogether.

Who could have been a better face for medical marijuana?

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/8dc3b87e92d36ab942bd5d00cfe7a74b/tumblr_mzt3wjvCpy1sr52l8o1_500.jpg)
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/48/b48dc196-07b6-598a-9f39-3e3b846cb57a/52e4c147850ec.image.jpg)
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/health/medical-marijuana-brings-oklahoma-families-to-colorado-to-treat-kids/article_e5eeb610-85de-52b9-a4f2-37a9e42b9737.html

How about instead of a backdoor approach where people simply line up to get cards that claim they have anxiety only treatable by MJ, we simply decriminalize it?

Obviously big pharma is afraid of losing revenue otherwise the FDA would clear the way nationally for medical MJ if there truly is medicinal benefit.  I’d think there must be un-told billions of dollars just laying there waiting for pharmaceutical companies to either extract THC or synthesize it for all sorts of beneficial treatments.

I don’t think private corrections companies are the sole movement against legal MJ.  Think about how many people are currently locked up for possession or using drugs currently allowed by the FDA.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 07, 2014, 02:31:53 pm
How about instead of a backdoor approach where people simply line up to get cards that claim they have anxiety only treatable by MJ, we simply decriminalize it?

Because politicians are still buying into/exploiting 1920's scare tactics?

'The Oklahoma State Bureau of Narcotics hopes the bill does not make it through the legislature. In fact, Woodward says marijuana is a dangerous drug. He says while a person can take a drink of alcohol and not get drunk, marijuana always causes a person to become impaired. "Everyone who smokes marijuana gets intoxicated, becomes high off of it and becomes a safety risk.”'

...so not only does that put OBNDD in conflict with ABLE, its another example of how the status quo bewilders people with misinformation.
Canibis Oil is often consumed with food, rather than smoked.  Cannibidiol (CBD) is a non-psychoactive component of marijuana that possesses a wide range of therapeutic benefits.
http://www.chicagonow.com/chicago-medical-marijuana/2013/11/cannabidiol-the-side-of-marijuana-you-dont-know/


Obviously big pharma is afraid of losing revenue otherwise the FDA would clear the way nationally for medical MJ if there truly is medicinal benefit.  I’d think there must be un-told billions of dollars just laying there waiting for pharmaceutical companies to either extract THC or synthesize it for all sorts of beneficial treatments.

I don’t think private corrections companies are the sole movement against legal MJ.  Think about how many people are currently locked up for possession or using drugs currently allowed by the FDA.

It's not just the unwillingness of Big Pharma and the prison industry to tweak their profit models;
corporate money from Anheuser-Busch and Big Alcohol also find their way to police grants and media campaigns.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 03, 2014, 04:48:35 pm
"We are reaching a critical mass. Enough states have passed medical marijuana laws that state legislators can say, 'Well, this many states have passed it, so it can't be that disastrous.'"
http://www.fox23.com/mostpopular/story/Medical-Marijuana-State-Action-in-2014/9UFRBG6kOkWJs1UbpIvzdQ.cspx


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on April 03, 2014, 06:03:27 pm
It'll never fly in Oklahoma,  Wilbur, 'cause it's a gateway drug to voting a straight Democratic ticket, opening our borders to furriners, and possibly engaging in alternative lifestyles.

Sent from my SPH-L720 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 16, 2014, 12:22:12 pm
Gov. would write executive order legalizing Medical Marijuana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWySlx_XZLI

..or lie to parents of sick children.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on April 16, 2014, 12:40:24 pm
Gov. would write executive order legalizing Medical Marijuana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWySlx_XZLI

..or lie to parents of sick children.

Election's coming.  She's going to lie


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on April 16, 2014, 06:33:45 pm
Gov. would write executive order legalizing Medical Marijuana:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWySlx_XZLI

..or lie to parents of sick children.


You know she won't do the correct thing.  (She will, however, always do the Radical Reactionary Right thing....)


And this state keeps on electing her and her ilk...  T. W. Shannon, Jim Inhofe, Sally Kern..... those ilk!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 19, 2014, 04:17:26 pm
Prohibition of marijuana has been a much bigger failure than prohibition of alcohol ever was.  Consider all the money wasted incarcerating people over pot and enforcing laws written nearly 100 years ago based on misinformation and fear, not to mention the loss of life in drug wars which would not exist if pot were legal.

Despite the big shift in Americans attitudes towards legalization, the old guard is still well represented.

Take the story this week about the housewife who was shot by her hallucinating husband in the 13th minute of a 911 call.
All the blame was put on the husband eating a marijuana edible candy he legally purchased, but most media outlets ignored the handful of prescription narcotic painkillers he had also taken.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 09, 2014, 02:04:42 pm

“There is quiet, silent support, not only because our laws are ridiculous but because people either have used it or know someone who has, and all of the doomsday expectations just are not true,” says state Sen. Connie Johnson.
...it would legalize possession of 1 ounce of marijuana for personal use by adults 21 and older – or 1.5 ounces for doctor-approved medical use. It would allow residents to grow six plants at home.

In what would be the most groundbreaking part of the package, the initiative would allow commercial farms to export marijuana to states where it’s legal for recreational or medicinal use.  “It could be cultivated, packaged and sold right here in Oklahoma, and our law would allow it to be transported to other states where it is legal."
“This is a penal colony state. We don’t have much industry – it’s agriculture and the prisons”

A survey conducted by SoonerPoll found 71 percent of residents favor medical marijuana and 57 percent support decriminalizing possession of 1 ounce of marijuana.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/05/08/oklahoma-pot-legalization-cannabis-cash-crop





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on May 09, 2014, 05:12:15 pm
Oklahoma Initiative Would Make Pot a Legal, Exportable Cash Crop (http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2014/05/08/oklahoma-pot-legalization-cannabis-cash-crop)

Yes please.

Very simply - about as many people smoke pot now as they would if it were legal.  Perhaps a few more would smoke pot (probably me) occasionally if it were legal.  But I don't think we would see a sudden surge in "heavy users." 

The "think of the children" argument is tired.  When I was a "kid" I got exactly as much pot as I could afford.  It was easier to get than alcohol.  It was true for my parents (class of '69), I assume it is true today.  Just like alcohol, tobacco, and huffing household whatevers - it isn't whether it is legal or not that dictates their behavior.

It would raise revenue. 

It will save money in enforcement and incarceration.

Reduce the criminal element.   The argument that cartels would simply shift their focus is probably true.  BUT - it isn't like MORE people will get into heroine or cocaine because the cartels now want them to.  Even as Marijuana becomes more available.

And, I believe, cut DOWN on driving while high.  We cut down on driving while drunk - because people are aware of it and it is not socially acceptable.  Driving while high is still a "secret" problem.

YES - evidence exists that smoking pot is not good for you.  100% agree that is probably true.  But the drink I had at lunch isn't good for me.  The pork butt, chips and beer I plan on having at the BBQ tonight are not good for me. The cigar I smoke while fishing, also bad for me.  My afternoon redbull habit is bad.   But it's hard to argue for small government AND at the same time argue that pot should be illegal because it is unhealthy.

Uncle Sam, Oklahoma City - listen to reason and stop this reefer madness.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 11, 2014, 10:12:56 pm


The "think of the children" argument is tired.  When I was a "kid" I got exactly as much pot as I could afford.  It was easier to get than alcohol.  It was true for my parents (class of '69), I assume it is true today.  Just like alcohol, tobacco, and huffing household whatevers - it isn't whether it is legal or not that dictates their behavior.



Alcohol and grass were both trivial to get in 1969.  Had a booze supplier who sold quart bottles (back when they were quarts) - and it was customer choice, either clear or brown booze in the bottle.  And it was guaranteed to be 1/2 full or more - I never got less than a full bottle, but there could be supply shortages, so he would adjust as needed to serve the maximum number of customers - everyone could get a little....   $5.00.

No brand names - the bottle had labels, but due to the supply chain methodology, it might say Jim Beam and actually be a mix of Beam, Jack, Johnny Walker, etc.  Clear could be mix of gin, vodka, and tequila.  Depending on supply..... it would always give a buzz....





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 19, 2014, 11:15:57 pm
TULSA, Okla. - It's not if but when Oklahoma’s medical marijuana laws change, according to one of the country’s leading experts on medical cannabis.

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Medical-marijuana-expert-Oklahoma-native-thinks/gOMQyxuel06CVKrAfqWgkA.cspx

The Epilepsy Foundation supports increased access to medical marijuana, saying, "Nothing should stand in the way of patients gaining access to potentially life-saving treatment."
But Oklahoma law does stand in the way.

Aggarwal said compounds unique to marijuana interact with something in the brain actually named after the marijuana plant, or cannabis sativa. It's the endocannabinoid system.

“When you look at the distribution of those receptors in brain, nervous system, immune cells, it's like, 'OK, that's why it has that effect on inflammation, that's why it has pain-reducing effects, that's why it has reductions in muscle spasms, seizure activity, because it's involved' -- it's the circuits in the body that govern those things,” said Aggarwal.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 20, 2014, 08:37:23 am
Ain't it a b$tch when yet again, the RWRE are shown to be wrong.....


http://www.msnbc.com/all/does-marijuana-lower-the-crime-rate

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/13/marijuana-crime-denver_n_5319298.html


And RT.com reported;

Compared to the same time period in 2013, overall property crime fell by 14.6 percent in Denver. Homicide rates, while not leaving the single digits in either year, fell by 66.7 percent while the number of robberies decreased by seven percent.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 30, 2014, 10:49:20 am
The federal wall is slowly coming down:


House blocks feds from going after medical marijuana
For the first time ever, Congress is taking action to protect – not condemn – medical marijuana use.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/congress-comes-out-medical-marijuana



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 30, 2014, 04:01:43 pm
The federal wall is slowly coming down:


House blocks feds from going after medical marijuana
For the first time ever, Congress is taking action to protect – not condemn – medical marijuana use.

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/congress-comes-out-medical-marijuana




Being the eternal amoral opportunists they are, just reading the polls and making inane pronouncements....

"The heart and soul of the Republican party is that pro-freedom, individual philosophy that Reagan talked about," said Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), the primary Republican pushing the amendment.


Yet, for at least the last 34 year (actually many more) they have been the against freedom, anti-individual party - just the OPPOSITE of what Reagan talked about.....










Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 07, 2014, 10:03:45 pm
Quote
The vast majority of marijuana arrests in New York City are for the lowest misdemeanor charge -- criminal possession in the fifth degree -- in which the arrestee either possessed less than two ounces of marijuana, or had the drug "in public view."

Since 1977, possession of less than 25 grams of marijuana -- a little less than an ounce -- has been decriminalized in New York state. Under the law, those caught with such a small amount of weed are subject to a $100 violation for a first offense.

However, since the late-1990s, NYPD officers have been asking the hundreds of thousands of people they stop on the streets each year empty their pockets. In 2013, 85 percent of those people were black or Latino.

When pot comes out of the pocket, it becomes "in public view," thus allowing police to make an arrest for misdemeanor criminal possession in the fifth degree.
Arrestees can face up to three months in jail, and a criminal record.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 16, 2014, 09:50:25 pm
Medical marijuana proponents accuse Tulsa Police of harassment over petition
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/medical-marijuana-proponents-accuse-tulsa-police-of-harassment-over-petition/article_db704aa3-5f0d-5551-be54-67fb1988e07a.html


Quote
Circulators of an initiative petition seeking to legalize medical marijuana on Monday said they have been harassed by the Tulsa Police Department.

Chip Paul, chairman of Oklahomans for Health, said that on four days last week, police came to locations where his group was attempting to gather signatures to get the issue on the ballot. The locations were publicized in advance, he said.

Police asked the volunteers to leave, Paul said. When they responded that they were exercising a constitutional right to petition government, police began asking for identification, he said.

He said the “harassment” has impacted efforts to obtain the slightly more than 155,000 signatures needed to get the issue on the ballot.
“We know we are dealing with a controversial topic,” Paul said. “We are doing our best to run our campaign in a lawful, respectful and professional manner. We would expect the same respect from law enforcement.”

Leland Ashley, public information officer for Tulsa Police, said he found two records where calls were made to police concerning the petition circulators. Both calls indicated marijuana was being sold.

Paul said his organization has asked the ACLU of Oklahoma for assistance in resolving the matter.
“The collection of signatures for a ballot measure is the exercise of one’s fundamental right to petition their government under the First Amendment,” said Ryan Kiesel, executive director of the ACLU of Oklahoma. “And the government has no business interfering with that right or chilling the First Amendment activities of signature gatherers. We take any and all allegations of such interference very seriously and are looking into the matter and will respond appropriately.”


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 17, 2014, 07:33:12 am
Medical marijuana proponents accuse Tulsa Police of harassment over petition
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/medical-marijuana-proponents-accuse-tulsa-police-of-harassment-over-petition/article_db704aa3-5f0d-5551-be54-67fb1988e07a.html




Good thing it wasn't something of extremely large social import - like maybe the Viet Nam war protests - they would have just brought out the tear gas....

Ahh...the good ole TPD!  Gotta love 'em!  To he$$ with the Constitution - this is Oklahoma!!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 17, 2014, 12:35:08 pm

Good thing it wasn't something of extremely large social import - like maybe the Viet Nam war protests - they would have just brought out the tear gas....

Ahh...the good ole TPD!  Gotta love 'em!  To he$$ with the Constitution - this is Oklahoma!!

It doesnt take that much in Tulsa... just protesting predatory bank practices in a city park is sufficient:
http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/11/02/occupy-tulsa-pepper-spray-worst-abuse-yet/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 17, 2014, 02:24:18 pm
It doesnt take that much in Tulsa... just protesting predatory bank practices in a city park is sufficient:
http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/11/02/occupy-tulsa-pepper-spray-worst-abuse-yet/

Olbermann?  Really?  He’s high on paint.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 17, 2014, 03:37:12 pm
Olbermann?  Really?  He’s high on paint.


Deflection moment... Olberman isn't the point....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 17, 2014, 09:47:31 pm
TULSA, Okla. – The debate over legalizing marijuana is raging in Oklahoma, with strong opinions on both sides.

Now some supporters of legalizing marijuana tell FOX23 that Tulsa police interfered with them while they gathered signatures for a petition.
They shared this cell phone video with FOX23 that they say shows an officer confronting them.

"Just so you guys understand, we have no problem with you guys being here, but since he wants to be an a$shole and not tell us his past, that's why you have to leave,” said an officer on the tape.
The video shows TPD officers arriving at a petition site, gathering IDs to check into volunteers' past, and getting upset when one wouldn't give details about an old arrest.
“We're fine with this part of it, but because he doesn't want to cooperate, you guys are going,” said an officer on the tape.

Oklahomans for Health director Chip Paul said his volunteers were run off by police three days last week, and it's impacting the 90 days they have to collect just under 160,000 signatures in an effort to get medical marijuana on the November ballot.
“Police were nice and respectful when they rolled up, but their whole goal seems to be shutting us down, telling us to move. If we push back, it escalates,” said Paul.

FOX23 got a statement from the city explaining citizens complained about the group flying these marijuana flags and allegedly having signs saying the drug was sold at these locations.
One citizen report was even labeled "outside drug activity."

“We don't have an issue with people exercising their right. When we have a citizen call in, it is our duty to go to those locations and figure out what's going on and that's what we did,” said Jill Roberson with Tulsa police.

FOX23 found officers never filed a report for either call they responded to on Wednesday or Thursday, and they never found any drugs.
But the city's statement reads the group was on private commercial business properties.
“It is legal, but not on QuikTrip’s parking lot,” said an officer on the cell video.
That is a violation, but one Paul said his group is not guilty of committing.

“We're within our right to petition and we should never be moved from a public place or asked to move. We just want the problem fixed, we don't want to be hassled, we don't want to be harassed, however, a municipal authority has violated our civil rights,” said Paul.
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/Supporters-of-marijuana-legalization-say-Tulsa/zJxgYN1h60i3dK8z11GCBA.cspx




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 18, 2014, 07:57:00 am

Deflection moment... Olberman isn't the point....


Yeah okay Mr. Baby Bush, Murdoch, RWRE, LWRE.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2014, 08:12:17 am
Yeah okay Mr. Baby Bush, Murdoch, RWRE, LWRE.


Really??   Come ON!!!  You can do much better than that!  Not getting lazy on me in your old age, are you??  Have noticed guido slacking a little, too!!  You two, and Gas, are much better and a lot more fun than that!!




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2014, 08:16:07 am

FOX23 found officers never filed a report for either call they responded to on Wednesday or Thursday, and they never found any drugs.
But the city's statement reads the group was on private commercial business properties.
“It is legal, but not on QuikTrip’s parking lot,” said an officer on the cell video.
That is a violation, but one Paul said his group is not guilty of committing.



Makes me wonder if QuikTrip was asked for permission to collect signatures?  And if not, why not??

And second, if QuikTrip DID give permission, why are the cops there to start with?

And third, if QuikTrip did NOT give permission, why not?  As they are major beneficiaries of the freedoms and liberties we enjoy in this country, why would they not support those same freedoms?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 18, 2014, 11:34:40 am

"Just so you guys understand, we have no problem with you guys being here, but since he wants to be an a$shole and not tell us his past, that's why you have to leave,” said an officer on the tape.
The video shows TPD officers arriving at a petition site, gathering IDs to check into volunteers' past, and getting upset when one wouldn't give details about an old arrest.
“We're fine with this part of it, but because he doesn't want to cooperate, you guys are going,” said an officer on the tape.

Oh, you can petition the government for a redress of grievances as long as you submit to daily spot warrant checks and not object to any invasive questioning (thats not relevant to collecting signatures for a petition nor any potential crime investigation).

I totally forgot thats how it works.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKbgdDDoJCA[/youtube]



It took a couple of incidents, but the department has finally decided to distance itself:

TULSA — Tulsa Police Department officers may have exceeded their authority in forcing some petitioners to leave a public area, and one officer's supervisor is looking into her conduct during the incident, which was caught on video.
http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/medical-marijuana-backers-claim-harrassment-tulsa-/ngMpQ/

The petitioners are heard on the video noting that they were on a public easement, and not blocking the sidewalk.
The officers then ask the people for ID's, which they receive, and the female officer goes to the patrol unit to check the names.

She returns and asks the man with the camera phone "What have you been in trouble for?"
He tells her that he was arrested once, but it was dismissed.
After he refuses to tell the officers what the arrest was for, the female officer tells the people they have to leave.

(PIO): "As a citizen you have the right to remain, if you're there on that easement, as long as you're not standing on the sidwalk, or blocking traffic, or blocking someone from walking, you have a right to stand there. Whether it's a protest or a petition, I'll tell you right now the police department, we don't have an issue with anyone exercising their First Amendment rights. Let me be real clear with that...that's really where the chief stands, and where the department stands."




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 18, 2014, 11:39:18 am

And third, if QuikTrip did NOT give permission, why not?  As they are major beneficiaries of the freedoms and liberties we enjoy in this country, why would they not support those same freedoms?

Totally a guess, but possibly pressure from Budweiser, whose owners are major contributors to efforts to stop any marijuana reform?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mason-tvert/big-alcohol-fueling-oppos_b_719878.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 18, 2014, 11:47:28 am
Totally a guess, but possibly pressure from Budweiser, whose owners are major contributors to efforts to stop any marijuana reform?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mason-tvert/big-alcohol-fueling-oppos_b_719878.html

But why?  I always enjoyed a Bud with a bud.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on June 18, 2014, 12:22:15 pm
So you need to produce valid ID in order to present petitions to voters?

There is a rule that you have to divulge your history to government agents on demand or you lose your right to petition?

If your a jackhole to a cop, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply?

Noted. Thanks!

This threat to police budgets must not stand!

Seems like the male cop was professional.  He can ask for info, as long as they voluntarily comply so be it.  She was hostile the entire time.  Then they crossed the line.  Should have told them they cannot be on private property and left it at that.

Sad when stoners come out more professional than the police.  Not the stoners never called the officers names or violated their rights when they felt offended.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: ARGUS on June 18, 2014, 03:24:17 pm
^^^"stoners"? Do you know if they actually smoke? The petitioners could be just casually dressed professionals trying to exercise their rights.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 18, 2014, 04:00:36 pm
At 8 minutes into this the cop starts calling the guy an a$$hole...!!??  Yeah, classy female - got some real "Lady" tendencies going on there.  Ascribing characteristics to someone else which one possesses in abundance to try to deflect attention....


Makes me proud of TPD!!

(Anyone note the sarcasm in the text?)


It's a shame there isn't a Rabon Martin type still around willing to champion causes that otherwise go wanting.... Stand up for the little guy getting bulldozed by the system... Start a civil rights legal action against the overbearing, obnoxious, untrammeled exercise of undeserved power....

(Tilting at windmills....)




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vision 2025 on June 20, 2014, 02:48:25 pm
I do miss Rabon...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 20, 2014, 06:49:41 pm
So you need to produce valid ID in order to present petitions to voters?
There is a rule that you have to divulge your history to government agents on demand or you lose your right to petition?
If your a jackhole to a cop, the 1st Amendment doesn't apply?

Noted. Thanks!

Seems like the male cop was professional.  He can ask for info, as long as they voluntarily comply so be it.  She was hostile the entire time.  Then they crossed the line.  Should have told them they cannot be on private property and left it at that.

Sad when stoners come out more professional than the police.  Not the stoners never called the officers names or violated their rights when they felt offended.


Notice how quickly Mr Professional jumps in to correct Miss Piggy's complete lack of regard for the law........

NOT.



As for The Chief's recently stated position on civil liberty,
either the deaprtment has had a complete reversal of their long-established, in-your-face disregard of civil rights


OR


there was a citizen with a video camera.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 26, 2014, 07:54:59 pm
either the department has had a complete reversal of their long-established, in-your-face disregard of civil rights


OR


The group hopes to gather the nearly 156,000 signatures required to get medical marijuana on the November ballot so voters can decide the issue.

Organizer Chip Paul tells KRMG the police have stopped bothering the petitioners, but (Oklahomans for Health) still wants to know why it happened at all.

They'd like to find out if officers took it upon themselves to try and run petitioners off, or if the orders came from higher up.

And, Paul says, the councilors need to know there's potential liability for the city if such harassment occurs in the future.


http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/medical-marijuana-backers-plan-address-tulsa-city-/ngSzK/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 02, 2014, 01:31:00 pm
It's interesting (but not surprising) that as the majority of states are either legalizing or moving closer to legalization of medical marijuana, the Oklahoma narcotics bureaucracy scrambles to build a barricade of new laws to fend off reform.
Here's one the governor recently signed into law:

http://legiscan.com/OK/text/HB2666/2014


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 02, 2014, 01:43:08 pm
It's interesting (but not surprising) that as the majority of states are either legalizing or moving closer to legalization of medical marijuana, the Oklahoma narcotics bureaucracy scrambles to build a barricade of new laws to fend off reform.
Here's one the governor recently signed into law:

http://legiscan.com/OK/text/HB2666/2014


If it's good for the people.  Popular.  Or likely to enhance our attractiveness to outside investment.  We, as a state will always vote against it.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on July 02, 2014, 02:04:49 pm

Salvia is now a Schedule I narcotic?    At some point wasn't that a houseplant?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 02, 2014, 03:39:27 pm
If it's good for the people.  Popular.  Or likely to enhance our attractiveness to outside investment.  We, as a state will always vote against it.

We didnt get to vote on this overly-broad, capricious nightmare.

As written, you could twist a piece of paper and put it on a table, and if someone thinks it looks like a joint...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on July 02, 2014, 03:42:16 pm
Salvia is now a Schedule I narcotic?    At some point wasn't that a houseplant?



(http://georgeweigel.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/salvia.maynight-300x225.jpg)

Heading home to trip balls.

Smell ya later


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 02, 2014, 04:22:38 pm
We didnt get to vote on this overly-broad, capricious nightmare.

As written, you could twist a piece of paper and put it on a table, and if someone thinks it looks like a joint...


"We" is the collective we - people at the ballot box and legislators down in OKC.  Across the board astounding how we vote against our own best interest so much of the time.  Most of the time....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 05, 2014, 10:18:11 am
Heading home to trip balls.

Smell ya later

You flower children be careful, now, meanwhile...



EL RENO, Oklahoma - Agents arrested two Florida men who they said were smuggling $250,000 worth of pot products.
"This marijuana that they're producing today is like nothing we've ever seen before," Mark Woodward with OBN said.

Woodward said every single item they seized from the suspects' car contains marijuana like brownies, fruit juice, olive oil, butter, jam and candies that look like brand name candy.
"It shows who these people are marketing this to, because you don't put gummy bears out here and target 55-year-old men with this stuff," said Woodward.



55-year-old men in Florida with cancer, maybe.  

After all, dried prunes are definitely appealing to kids...

http://www.news9.com/story/25939171/obn-makes-unique-marijuana-products-drug-bust
(http://localtvkfor.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/photo-2.jpg?w=500)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 05, 2014, 10:29:05 am
I take it Mark Woodward doesn't get out much.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 05, 2014, 07:04:32 pm
I take it Mark Woodward doesn't get out much.


Want to bet he can find his way to the property room when he has a good friend with cancer?

It's hard to tell if they are that out-of-touch with reality, or just paid to be:
"Agents pulled over Robert Shepard and Andrew Mason on Interstate 40 in El Reno on Wednesday for following too close.
They said both men were acting nervous, so they brought in a K9 named Xena. The three-year-old OBN pup sniffed out 50 pounds of products in the men's car."

Glad to hear the probable cause came from OBNDD's routine patrol of the highway, and not a tip from illegal NSA surveillance.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/05/us-dea-sod-idUSBRE97409R20130805

All that warrant-less eavesdropping just to protect us from terrorist pot gummybears?




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 06, 2014, 07:08:04 pm
Quote
Here's the Lawless Hellscape Colorado Has Become Six Months After Legalizing Weed

It's now been six months since Colorado enacted its historic marijuana legalization policy, and two big things have already happened:
1. Colorado's cash crop is turning out to be even more profitable than the state could have hoped.
2. Denver crime rates have suddenly fallen.

http://mic.com/articles/92449/six-months-after-legalizing-marijuana-two-big-things-have-happened-in-colorado
(http://media2.policymic.com/ab46c77d3db114c2ccddb25f239f8ccf.gif)

Quote
The Food and Drug Administration is conducting an analysis at the Drug Enforcement Administration’s request on whether the U.S. should downgrade the classification of marijuana as a Schedule 1 drug.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-06-20/drug-regulators-study-easing-u-s-marijuana-restrictions.html










Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 07, 2014, 08:59:21 am
I bet that is a fun graphic to watch while stoned.

Meanwhile, crime is falling in Colorado since weed became legal.  The exact opposite of what law enforcement and the prison cartel predicted.

http://rt.com/usa/colorado-crime-change-legalization-study-017/

My apologies if someone else beat me to this.  I think it’s compelling.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 07, 2014, 09:09:20 am
I bet that is a fun graphic to watch while stoned.

Meanwhile, crime is falling in Colorado since weed became legal.  The exact opposite of what law enforcement and the prison cartel predicted.

http://rt.com/usa/colorado-crime-change-legalization-study-017/

My apologies if someone else beat me to this.  I think it’s compelling.

although it might be plausible for it to go up...well, at least shoplifting of cool ranch and nacho cheese doritos would likely go up.

 8)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 07, 2014, 10:33:47 am
although it might be plausible for it to go up...well, at least shoplifting of cool ranch and nacho cheese doritos would likely go up.

 8)

Twinkies.  Gotta have...wait...what?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on July 07, 2014, 12:05:18 pm
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING POST CONTAINS A REFERENCE TO WORLD NET DAILY. FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY, PLEASE USE PRECAUTIONS BEFORE READING IT. AN ALUMINUM FOIL HAT, SAFETY GLASSES, AND NYTRILE GLOVES ARE STRONGLY RECOMMENDED.

"Carson told Farah that he worried politicians like President Obama and Eric Holder are surreptitiously encouraging marijuana use in order to create a dumb citizenry. That way, doped-up Americans will be distracted by controversies like the name of the Washington Redskins instead of focusing on stories about Benghazi and Fast and Furious."

So there you have it. Marijuana is linked directly to Benghazi. Who knew that Obama could be so Machiavellian?

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-carson-thinks-politicians-are-promoting-pot-use-make-people-dumb-distract-benghazi (http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/ben-carson-thinks-politicians-are-promoting-pot-use-make-people-dumb-distract-benghazi)

(As an aside, perhaps Benghazi references should be a sub-set or corollary to Godwin's Law. Just sayin')


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 07, 2014, 01:13:48 pm
Meanwhile, crime is falling in Colorado since weed became legal.  The exact opposite of what law enforcement and the prison cartel predicted.

http://rt.com/usa/colorado-crime-change-legalization-study-017/




"Overall property crime fell by 14.6 percent in Denver. Homicide rates, while not leaving the single digits in either year, fell by 66.7 percent while the number of robberies decreased by seven percent."

...And we have to get this news from the Russians.
At lest our leaders are protecting us from epileptic babies smoking joints.



(http://i.imgur.com/kpmKSnA.png)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 07, 2014, 01:30:34 pm
(http://i544.photobucket.com/albums/hh347/gethigh4twenty/StonerBaby.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 09, 2014, 05:09:21 pm

Meanwhile, crime is falling in Colorado since weed became legal.  The exact opposite of what law enforcement and the prison cartel predicted.

So while Colorado was laying the groundwork to amp up its tax base, Oklahoma was laying the groundwork to keep it's prisons full:


New penalties for possession or making of hashish, a grinder, or brownies may include life imprisonment, were enacted in 2011.
Effective Oct. 1, 2013, a person will be jailed for no less than 30 days or more than 1 year if: A person as any amount of a Schedule I chemical or controlled substance, as defined in Section 2-204 of Title 63 of the Oklahoma Statutes, OR ONE OF ITS METABOLITES OR ANALOGS in the person’s blood, saliva, urine or any other bodily fluid at the time of a test of such person's blood, saliva, urine or any other bodily fluid administered within two (2) hours after the arrest of such person.  A second offense will have longer sentencing as well as require an ignition interlock device that can only detect alcohol even if person is not a user of alcohol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_cannabis_by_U.S._state


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 09, 2014, 08:04:52 pm
Twinkies.  Gotta have...wait...what?


New Crest store in Norman...tonight...2 boxes of Hostess Cupcakes!!  Yum!!  Rationed at no more than 12 a day!    Er, uh.....1 per day!!  Yeah, that's it....that's the ticket....!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 12, 2014, 07:00:16 pm

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/07/11/only-scientist-researching-how-pot-can-help-veterans-ptsd-gets-axed-after-gop-pressure/

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/pot-ptsd-arizona-boots-researcher-seeking-cure-vets-n152881



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 13, 2014, 09:25:06 pm
Lots of lobbyist $$$ going towards misinformation campaigns to defeat drug reform....

Apparently, "authorities" lumping marijuana with other, more dangerous substances is a time-tested misinformation tactic that still works.
Look at the Lobbyist money being thrown around police associations in an effort to confuse pot with synthetic drugs, with phony phrases like "synthetic marijuana" and "fake pot:"

http://reason.com/blog/2014/07/08/drug-warriors-spend-money-training-cops
http://show-mecannabis.com/2014/06/law-enforcement-training-vs-political-propaganda-the-fine-line/
http://kwgn.com/2013/09/09/explainer-what-is-the-difference-between-synthetic-marijuana-and-natural-marijuana/



There's big grant money waiting for agencies that will give their officers the appropriate propaganda training on WOD talking points,
Here's one example of how that trickles down to the uninformed media:



Quote
http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/teen-warns-k2-dangers-new-law-could-stop-drug/ngcQ5/

TULSA, Okla. —  FOX23 has been telling you about the dangers of synthetic marijuana and how difficult it's been to make it illegal.
 
Now FOX23’s Janna Clark found out there may finally be a way for law enforcement to stop it.

The packages say it's incense, but FOX23 found out the state has documented that three people have died from smoking some kind of synthetic marijuana and hundreds have gone to the hospital.

Law enforcement hasn't been able to stop stores from selling it.

“The biggest problem is how easy these chemicals can be changed,” said Mark Woodward, with the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics.
 
He said OBN worked with lawmakers to ban specific chemicals in synthetic marijuana.

But the manufacturers tweaked the ingredients, which made the drugs legal again.
 
That happened over and over, and now the state's banned more than 200 chemicals.
 
“It's become a cat and mouse game,” said Woodward.

Until now, Woodward said the state just passed a new, different law.

The law bans nine categories of synthetic marijuana. Now chemists won't be looking for certain chemicals, but the structure of the compound of the chemicals. If the compound fits in one of the nine categories, it will be illegal to smoke it and sell it.

“All of these we believe are going to fit one of these nine categories,” said Woodward.

Woodward said Oklahoma mirrored its law after those in Arkansas and Illinois.

“They said it has been a silver bullet to stop the synthetic marijuana problem in their states,” said Woodward.

The irony is the laws that have tried to stop it have actually made the drug more dangerous.

The laws triggered amateur chemists to change the chemicals that they haphazardly spray on herbs.

“How dangerous are these synthetics?” asked Clark.

“They're deadly,” said Woodward.

When the law goes into effect in November, Woodward said OBN agents will aggressively investigate stores that sell synthetic marijuana.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 18, 2014, 09:46:09 pm

Heres a somewhat telling story about Oklahoma's drug bureaucracy...

Apparently there's a plant in the Coffee family that people have used for thousands of years to relieve pain -- and more recently to help avoid narcotics and even alcohol.

Apparently the only ones really harmed by this drug are the big pharmaceutical companies, but OBNDD has already tried to have it banned.  Currently, they are "monitoring" the news for another excuse to take a shot at it.

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/drug-agency-monitors-kratom-use-oklahoma/ngftf/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 27, 2014, 02:15:54 pm
I take it Mark Woodward doesn't get out much.

More "they're marketing it to our babies!" propaganda:

The Tulsa County Sheriff's Violent Crimes and Drug Task Force discovered all kinds of flavored marijuana in a recent bust, and much of it was in the form of gummy bears and sugar cubes. They say this is a wake-up call for parents that pot now comes in all shapes and sizes.

"Look at these. You open it up and it looks identical to gummy vitamins. If I were a kid, I'd eat them. The different flavors, that's tempting. They even smell good," said Investigator Leighton Boyd, Tulsa County Sheriff's Office.


Why yes, candy always comes in medicine bottles...
(http://kotv.images.worldnow.com/images/4313564_G.jpg)




Investigators say if a child ate a handful of these or more, they could overdose, get sick, even die. They say parents may not realize kids are doing drugs right in front of them.
http://www.newson6.com/story/26116365/colorado-pot-products-showing-up-in-tulsa-drug-busts

And again, how many people have died from overdoses of marijuana?

ever?

 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on July 27, 2014, 06:25:27 pm

And again, how many people have died from overdoses of marijuana?

ever?
 

Apparently two, but that was back when you could either smoke it or bake it.   Now that you can eat a joints worth in one gummy bear, we might get to see that chemistry can up that figure.

http://time.com/10372/marijuana-deaths-german-study/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 27, 2014, 07:13:05 pm
Repeal Prohibition, Again

By THE EDITORIAL BOARD
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/high-time-marijuana-legalization.html


Quote
It took 13 years for the United States to come to its senses and end Prohibition, 13 years in which people kept drinking, otherwise law-abiding citizens became criminals and crime syndicates arose and flourished. It has been more than 40 years since Congress passed the current ban on marijuana, inflicting great harm on society just to prohibit a substance far less dangerous than alcohol.

The federal government should repeal the ban on marijuana.

We reached that conclusion after a great deal of discussion among the members of The Times’s Editorial Board, inspired by a rapidly growing movement among the states to reform marijuana laws.

There are no perfect answers to people’s legitimate concerns about marijuana use. But neither are there such answers about tobacco or alcohol, and we believe that on every level — health effects, the impact on society and law-and-order issues — the balance falls squarely on the side of national legalization. That will put decisions on whether to allow recreational or medicinal production and use where it belongs — at the state level.

We considered whether it would be best for Washington to hold back while the states continued experimenting with legalizing medicinal uses of marijuana, reducing penalties, or even simply legalizing all use. Nearly three-quarters of the states have done one of these.

But that would leave their citizens vulnerable to the whims of whoever happens to be in the White House and chooses to enforce or not enforce the federal law.

The social costs of the marijuana laws are vast. There were 658,000 arrests for marijuana possession in 2012, according to F.B.I. figures, compared with 256,000 for cocaine, heroin and their derivatives. Even worse, the result is racist, falling disproportionately on young black men, ruining their lives and creating new generations of career criminals.

There is honest debate among scientists about the health effects of marijuana, but we believe that the evidence is overwhelming that addiction and dependence are relatively minor problems, especially compared with alcohol and tobacco. Moderate use of marijuana does not appear to pose a risk for otherwise healthy adults. Claims that marijuana is a gateway to more dangerous drugs are as fanciful as the “Reefer Madness” images of murder, rape and suicide.

There are legitimate concerns about marijuana on the development of adolescent brains. For that reason, we advocate the prohibition of sales to people under 21.

Creating systems for regulating manufacture, sale and marketing will be complex. But those problems are solvable, and would have long been dealt with had we as a nation not clung to the decision to make marijuana production and use a federal crime.

In coming days, we will publish articles by members of the Editorial Board and supplementary material that will examine these questions. We invite readers to offer their ideas, and we will report back on their responses, pro and con.

We recognize that this Congress is as unlikely to take action on marijuana as it has been on other big issues. But it is long past time to repeal this version of Prohibition.



http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/high-time-let-states-decide-on-marijuana.html





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 27, 2014, 07:23:16 pm
Apparently two, but that was back when you could either smoke it or bake it.   Now that you can eat a joints worth in one gummy bear, we might get to see that chemistry can up that figure.

http://time.com/10372/marijuana-deaths-german-study/


Quote
Researchers said, however, that the drug was to blame in two isolated cases of two seemingly health people, one 23 years old and another 28. Autopsies found that younger had a serious undetected heart problem, suggesting that people with cardiological issues should be aware of marijuana risks, and the older had a history of alcohol and drug use.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 27, 2014, 09:08:30 pm
Apparently two, but that was back when you could either smoke it or bake it.   Now that you can eat a joints worth in one gummy bear, we might get to see that chemistry can up that figure.

http://time.com/10372/marijuana-deaths-german-study/



A Rupert Murdoch publication.





Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on July 28, 2014, 05:28:02 am
Do a search for "marijuana oklahoma city" and you'll find a couple of news pieces on the rise of homelessness in Denver since their laws changed and another on how home owners associations can ban marijuana cultivation or use.

Gotta beat that drum.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on July 28, 2014, 07:44:03 am

Quote
Researchers said, however, that the drug was to blame in two isolated cases of two seemingly health people, one 23 years old and another 28. Autopsies found that younger had a serious undetected heart problem, suggesting that people with cardiological issues should be aware of marijuana risks, and the older had a history of alcohol and drug use.


I'm just saying that if you put a fat man on a treadmill and he has a heart attack, you blame the treadmill not the years of poor health choices.

Personally I think we should legalize it and tax the hell out of it.    We are going to need a new tax base soon to replace all the cigarette taxes that are going away.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 28, 2014, 08:49:36 am


I'm just saying that if you put a fat man on a treadmill and he has a heart attack, you blame the treadmill not the years of poor health choices.

Personally I think we should legalize it and tax the hell out of it.    We are going to need a new tax base soon to replace all the cigarette taxes that are going away.


Why are cigarette taxes going away??


The Fed will never outlaw "enhancing" cigarettes to increase addictiveness - it will cut into the tax base too much - so we will always have a lot of smoking addicts around....



Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on July 28, 2014, 09:13:23 am
In his documentary on Prohibition, Ken Burns said the federal government was funded by liquor taxes, and with Prohibition looming, income taxes had to be enacted as a substitute. People drank prodigious amounts of alcohol back then.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 28, 2014, 09:18:48 am

Why are cigarette taxes going away??


The Fed will never outlaw "enhancing" cigarettes to increase addictiveness - it will cut into the tax base too much - so we will always have a lot of smoking addicts around....



Fewer people partaking and the older smokers are dying off.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on July 28, 2014, 09:52:07 am
Fewer people partaking and the older smokers are dying off.

That's what I was thinking.   Their spending of millions to keep kids from smoking seems to be working.

It hasn't turned over yet, but I expect that to be just a matter of time.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=403


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on July 28, 2014, 10:25:56 am
That's what I was thinking.   Their spending of millions to keep kids from smoking seems to be working.

It hasn't turned over yet, but I expect that to be just a matter of time.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=403


I don’t know of any of my daughter’s friends who smoke.  I’m glad their generation doesn’t see any value in it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 28, 2014, 10:42:39 am
Do a search for "marijuana oklahoma city" and you'll find a couple of news pieces on the rise of homelessness in Denver since their laws changed and another on how home owners associations can ban marijuana cultivation or use.

The prohibitionists want to imply that legalization created homelessness, but the facts show that homeless from other states are emigrating to Colorado in search of the new jobs.  Its the gold rush all over again.

And the discredited German "marijuana deaths" study... They were spanked by their own peers for their sloppy conclusions.
“Cannabis does not paralyze the breathing or the heart," head of the German Association for Drugs and Addiction Jost Leune said. "Deaths due to cannabis use are usually accidents that are not caused by the substance, but to the circumstances of use.”


Has the magic plant finally claimed its first victim, several thousand years into its history with humans?
http://www.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2014/02/26/german-doctors-say-marijuana-can-kill-you
Drug cops are essentially quoting The Onion to prolong prohibition, people. And doctors are publishing findings that say, because we cannot find any reason why this person died, it must be the marijuana.

...which brings us to the absurd (yet meticulously rehearsed) statements like the ones earlier, spoon-fed to gullible reporters.

You would think the writing on the wall would be clear, and that people responsible for our tax dollars and the safety of the public would be thinking ahead to how they are going to operate in a post-prohibition world.


  





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 28, 2014, 11:03:00 am
That's what I was thinking.   Their spending of millions to keep kids from smoking seems to be working.

It hasn't turned over yet, but I expect that to be just a matter of time.
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=403



Slowly decreasing - seems like we have 'plateaued'.....

There is an easy real fix, just like there is an easy real to the so-called immigration issue....

Two steps -
1  Federal law prohibiting enhancement of the addictive compounds over what naturally occurs in tobacco as grown.  This would let the vast majority of people who want to quit ABLE to do just that!!

2  Increase taxes some more...5% increase each year - this is a "frog in a pot slowly brought to a boil" solution, but the first can make a serious immediate impact.


There are simple, straightforward, cost-effective solutions to many of the big problems we face....there just aren't simple, straightforward ways to continue the power-grabs, graft, and corruption IF those solutions are implemented!!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 29, 2014, 09:44:32 pm

You would think the writing on the wall would be clear, and that people responsible for our tax dollars and the safety of the public would be thinking ahead to how they are going to operate in a post-prohibition world.




Quote
“We do not support medical marijuana, we have made it very clear,” said Woodward. Woodward believes groups have misinterpreted a Facebook post on the OBN page.
The post states “there are chemicals in pot (THC and CBD) that help people. We support medical uses of THC and CBD if used correctly.”

Woodward said CBD oil has shown promising results in helping kids with seizure disorders in other states and OBN is not opposed to legalizing in Oklahoma.

“We are optimistic that it could be done, if done correctly, if it is proven to be medicine, but like any drug we need to know what we are dealing with and we need to make sure it is not going to do more harm than good,” stated Woodward.

Woodward argues the current medical marijuana petition is too broad. He says smoking pot is not good for anyone.

Woodward said, “We are very much against it and no legitimate doctor is going to say that smoking something is the best delivery system for any medicine.”

Read more: http://www.koco.com/news/obn-we-do-not-support-medical-marijuana-petition/27196282


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on August 01, 2014, 09:17:02 pm
I thought that as cannabis is a Schedule 1 drug with no known medical use (per the DEA) research aimed at finding such medical use was prohibited or severely restricted. That sets us a Catch 22 situation. You can't find medical uses because you can't do research, therefore cannabis remains a Schedule 1 drug.

It's surprising how the OKCAP petition drive has been so well received throughout the state. Except in Tulsa. Advocates said that TPD officers were turning away potential petition signers yesterday, but the video provided didn't make that very clear.

In Owasso, someone called the PD complaining that people were selling marijuana out in front of Reasors. It was a card table on the sidewalk with hand lettered medical marijuana signs. Welcome to the 'burbs.

One side effect of this push has been the increase in voter registrations, since the OKCAP tables also offer the paperwork.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 03, 2014, 12:06:47 pm
Advertisement in the New York Times.

(http://h.fastcompany.net/multisite_files/fastcompany/inline/2014/08/3033929-inline-nyt-full-page-v7-fpo.jpg)



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 09, 2014, 10:04:58 pm
A bit of a sidebar here, but the initiative petition process may have already had a secondary impact -- registering new voters who are NOT likely to re-elect Gov. Fallin. 
If you recall, she was elected by a very small margin, which Im guessing would be a number roughly equal to the fringe element who only came out to vote when Fallin made defeating the "threat" of Sharia Law a big part of her platform.


The group is breaking records with the number of new voters getting registered.
 “We doubled the 12,000 that was the old record, we registered 24,000 new voters between May and June,” he said.
 FOX3 talked to the Tulsa County Election Board to get the number of new registered voters: 649 in May, 1,698 in June and a 2,448 in July.
 
Officials told FOX23 they expect the increase ahead of presidential elections, but think medical marijuana is the reason this year.
 “I think there’s a giant separation between what the people think about medical marijuana and what our government officials think about medical marijuana,” said Paul.

http://www.fox23.com/news/news/time-running-out-petition-medical-marijuana/ngyDZ/


If she intends to keep her for-profit prison donors happy with kids getting life sentences for pot brownies, she better start demanding more money.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/private-prisons-contribute-thousands-to-oklahoma-political-campaigns/article_f5ddca24-72e5-5c81-849b-031ac6c7c978.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 13, 2014, 09:09:13 am
Too little too late:


Gov. Mary Fallin announced she would ask lawmakers to talk with her, possibly as early as the next legislative session, to consider having a state representative prepare to lead a legislative study examining the possibility of allowing medical trials for the use of non-intoxicating CBD oils to children affected by severe seizures.

(insert appropriate pot-themed joke about holding breath)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on August 13, 2014, 03:09:43 pm
Fallin Supports Limited Use of Cannabis Oil

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/fallin-supports-limited-use-cannabis-oil-0 (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/fallin-supports-limited-use-cannabis-oil-0)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201407/FALLIN-GOO.JPG)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin says she supports the legalization of an oil derived from cannabis, but says she remains firmly opposed to legalizing all medical marijuana.

Fallin asked lawmakers Wednesday to support the legalization of cannabidiol, which is an oil derived from the marijuana plant. The oil can only be taken orally and is non-psychoactive. Research suggests it may be effective to treat toddlers with rare conditions that cause seizures and strokes.

The governor says cannabidiol could be "potentially life-saving" for some children. She says she supports a limited trial in which the product is made available to sick children.

Backers of a broader proposal to legalize medical marijuana have until Friday to submit signatures to qualify for the ballot. Fallin says she does not support that measure.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 13, 2014, 04:52:15 pm
Fallin Supports Limited Use of Cannabis Oil

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/fallin-supports-limited-use-cannabis-oil-0 (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/fallin-supports-limited-use-cannabis-oil-0)

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201407/FALLIN-GOO.JPG)


I THOUGHT I saw some pigs in flight today!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 13, 2014, 07:04:20 pm
I THOUGHT I saw some pigs in flight today!

...and they were wearing lipstick.

Im betting the decriminalization momentum outpaces this delaying tactic (and her term in office).  Lets see.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on August 13, 2014, 07:18:31 pm
I THOUGHT I saw some pigs in flight today!

Were they in formation?
 :D



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 13, 2014, 09:43:24 pm
Were they in formation?
 :D




They only fly in line like B-52's doing low level runs....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 08:31:43 am
I thought it was interesting the initial sound bite and headline splurge she got: “Governor Fallin Supports Medical Marijuana” which is incredibly far from the truth.  She supports one extract medication from the hemp plant.  Big difference.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 14, 2014, 10:45:22 am
I thought it was interesting the initial sound bite and headline splurge she got: “Governor Fallin Supports Medical Marijuana” which is incredibly far from the truth.  She supports one extract medication from the hemp plant.  Big difference.


She's on the "bus" - dissemination, distortion, lies....




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 10:54:47 am

She's on the "bus" - dissemination, distortion, lies....




She’s a Murdochian, no doubt.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on August 14, 2014, 11:39:31 am
She’s a Murdochian, no doubt.

She was losing voter percentages.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 14, 2014, 12:04:44 pm
She was losing voter percentages.

This.  However, I wonder if she hasn't bled enough votes because of the handling of education and the like.

And her opponent isn't exactly a progressive.  But he's better than her, that's for sure.

Wonder what our resident Fallin-worshipper thinks of this?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 14, 2014, 12:50:51 pm
She was losing voter percentages.

What?  An Oklahoma governor loosing re-election because she was a dick about the state's #2 cash crop?


Hope.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 12:53:07 pm
This.  However, I wonder if she hasn't bled enough votes because of the handling of education and the like.

And her opponent isn't exactly a progressive.  But he's better than her, that's for sure.

Wonder what our resident Fallin-worshipper thinks of this?

He’s on the radio saying he was glad to see her jump on the bandwagon with legislation he authored or co-authored.  Though he referred to her as “Mary” and not “Governor” or “Governor Fallin”. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 14, 2014, 03:07:02 pm
He’s on the radio saying he was glad to see her jump on the bandwagon with legislation he authored or co-authored.  Though he referred to her as “Mary” and not “Governor” or “Governor Fallin”. 

I guess it's better than Governor Failin' or Mattress Mary.   ???


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 14, 2014, 05:38:03 pm
She was losing voter percentages.

That's going to happen when you represent your lobbyists and not the will of 70-80 percent of the electorate.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 14, 2014, 07:46:51 pm
What?  An Oklahoma governor loosing re-election because she was a dick about the state's #2 cash crop?


Hope.


Proof that in reality, she is anti-business.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 14, 2014, 10:02:38 pm

Proof that in reality, she is anti-business.



That’ll never play with Uncle Kimchi.  You know he’s just got to have a poster of her over his bed...like on the ceiling.


Title: Re: Re: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 14, 2014, 10:16:38 pm
That’ll never play with Uncle Kimchi.  You know he’s just got to have a poster of her over his bed...like on the ceiling.
Thanks for that mental image.  :-\


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 15, 2014, 08:31:50 am
That’ll never play with Uncle Kimchi.  You know he’s just got to have a poster of her over his bed...like on the ceiling.


Taking the place of the center mirror tile...?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 15, 2014, 11:02:37 am
That’ll never play with Uncle Kimchi.


“I am personally not for legalizing marijuana in the state of Oklahoma.” Fallin said (last fall).
FOX23 asked Fallin again Thursday in Tulsa.
“Actually I never said whether I was for or against it. I haven’t changed my mind on anything. What I have said is that I am against legalizing marijuana and the petitions that are out there right now legalizing marijuana for any reason,” Fallin said.

“I would guess this has something to do with the fact that we’ve registered 40,000 new pro-marijuana voters,” Paul said.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 15, 2014, 11:06:51 am

“I am personally not for legalizing marijuana in the state of Oklahoma.” Fallin said (last fall).
FOX23 asked Fallin again Thursday in Tulsa.
“Actually I never said whether I was for or against it. I haven’t changed my mind on anything. What I have said is that I am against legalizing marijuana and the petitions that are out there right now legalizing marijuana for any reason,” Fallin said.

“I would guess this has something to do with the fact that we’ve registered 40,000 new pro-marijuana voters,” Paul said.


If they did really register that many, than Mary is probably doomed given that her opponent, Joe Dorman authored the bill currently being considered.  It's likely too little too late for her and I for one would not miss her.

One other thing I've noticed is that two years ago, being 'against Obamacare' was quite the calling-card on campaign ads..meaning emphasis was given to that particular phrase when pitching the sale.  Hers barely glosses over it in less than a second bundled up into other word salad.  Wonder why that is?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 15, 2014, 01:52:19 pm

One other thing I've noticed is that two years ago, being 'against Obamacare' was quite the calling-card on campaign ads..meaning emphasis was given to that particular phrase when pitching the sale.  Hers barely glosses over it in less than a second bundled up into other word salad.  Wonder why that is?


She is starting to understand the everyone who believed that nonsense is now starting to understand how badly "it's just one more thing she did to hurt Oklahoma".... let's hope there are enough voters go to the polls who have figured it out.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: DolfanBob on August 15, 2014, 02:59:24 pm
Aww Dang! Looks like a no go on the ballot vote.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/medical-marijuana-supporters-say-they-don-t-have-enough-petition/article_21f6625b-122b-5d64-a65d-f9e597f70cbe.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 15, 2014, 04:21:04 pm
Aww Dang! Looks like a no go on the ballot vote.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/medical-marijuana-supporters-say-they-don-t-have-enough-petition/article_21f6625b-122b-5d64-a65d-f9e597f70cbe.html

That doesn't make it a non issue and doesn't mean something can't be done legislatively.  I know a family who has packed up and moved to Colorado because their daughter was having over 50 seizures a day and found that the CBD reduced that to about 1 every two days.  This is going to be a heated topic I think, and in fairly short order.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on August 15, 2014, 05:44:01 pm
That doesn't make it a non issue and doesn't mean something can't be done legislatively.  I know a family who has packed up and moved to Colorado because their daughter was having over 50 seizures a day and found that the CBD reduced that to about 1 every two days.  This is going to be a heated topic I think, and in fairly short order.

Sorry Hoss, I doubt it.  People will need to leave Oklahoma for decades to come.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 16, 2014, 07:10:24 am
Sorry Hoss, I doubt it.  People will need to leave Oklahoma for decades to come.


Why can't it be the Failin', Kern, Inhofe types who leave??



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 16, 2014, 09:55:23 am
That doesn't make it a non issue and doesn't mean something can't be done legislatively.  I know a family who has packed up and moved to Colorado because their daughter was having over 50 seizures a day and found that the CBD reduced that to about 1 every two days.  This is going to be a heated topic I think, and in fairly short order.

Sounds like CBD has a fighting chance, just not other forms with high amounts of THC.  Can’t have people in pain getting stoned, don’t ya know?  Better to hook them on more and more opiates as they destroy their internal organs and have to take higher dosages to attain the same relief over time.

I for one, am a person who does not respond as intended with opiates.  It does so little to contain pain for me, I simply elect to take analgesics post surgery or injury rather than do more damage to my body with that crap.  When I was having chronic back issues about 6 years ago, a little MJ at night was the only relief I could get.  When I dislocated my right shoulder a few weeks ago, the Dr. kept trying to push “low dose” narcotics on me for the pain on a follow-up visit the day after the incident happened.  I had to tell him thee times very emphatically that wasn’t going to happen. 

That is one thing no one is addressing:  I’ve never heard any evidence of people developing a tolerance to the effects of MJ like they do prescription narcotics or even street heroin.  It’s also amazing the amount of unfounded BS law enforcement and the private prison lobby spew about MJ.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 16, 2014, 10:14:48 pm

It’s also amazing the amount of unfounded BS law enforcement and the private prison lobby spew about MJ.



Apparently there is all sorts of grant money available to "officials" who push deceptive terms like "fake pot" to the media.
Since marijuana isnt sending kids to the ER, why not plant the association with something that is into the public's minds?

Next time you hear some idiot use the bogus term "Synthetic Marijuana," call them out.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 17, 2014, 08:42:59 am
Sounds like CBD has a fighting chance, just not other forms with high amounts of THC.  Can’t have people in pain getting stoned, don’t ya know?  Better to hook them on more and more opiates as they destroy their internal organs and have to take higher dosages to attain the same relief over time.

I for one, am a person who does not respond as intended with opiates.  It does so little to contain pain for me, I simply elect to take analgesics post surgery or injury rather than do more damage to my body with that crap.  When I was having chronic back issues about 6 years ago, a little MJ at night was the only relief I could get.  When I dislocated my right shoulder a few weeks ago, the Dr. kept trying to push “low dose” narcotics on me for the pain on a follow-up visit the day after the incident happened.  I had to tell him thee times very emphatically that wasn’t going to happen.  

That is one thing no one is addressing:  I’ve never heard any evidence of people developing a tolerance to the effects of MJ like they do prescription narcotics or even street heroin.  It’s also amazing the amount of unfounded BS law enforcement and the private prison lobby spew about MJ.


Be very careful here - you are treading into a maze of progressive thoughts and beliefs that may actually complete your transition from Republican to a rational thinker!!



Also, please note I did NOT say transition to Democrat....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on August 18, 2014, 07:00:05 pm

If I had ever seen anyone pushing the petition I would have signed it.   How many signatures short are they?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 18, 2014, 08:24:42 pm
No idea.  I signed it at the home brew store.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on August 21, 2014, 09:27:04 am
I guess I'm a old fud-dud I am against legal MJ. We don't need more people in public not thinking clearly or "mellowed out". We have enough problems with alcohol without adding drivers high on MJ to the streets. MJ can stay in your body for over 4 weeks after you last used it and can show up on a drug test. What effect will legal MJ have in the work place is also a serious question, Example:  some guy who gets high over the weekend is now at work Monday morning  driving a fork lift in a warehouse or operating heavy equipment -or  whatever,  do we really want that? Isn't alcohol enough? I do think the penalty for drug use is too stiff I will say that, it does not fit he crime. However Legal drugs no way, Once MJ is legal the camel has his nose under the tent for making other mind altering drugs  legal.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 21, 2014, 10:14:05 am
I guess I'm a old fud-dud I am against legal MJ. We don't need more people in public not thinking clearly or "mellowed out". We have enough problems with alcohol without adding drivers high on MJ to the streets. MJ can stay in your body for over 4 weeks after you last used it and can show up on a drug test. What effect will legal MJ have in the work place is also a serious question, Example:  some guy who gets high over the weekend is now at work Monday morning  driving a fork lift in a warehouse or operating heavy equipment -or  whatever,  do we really want that? Isn't alcohol enough? I do think the penalty for drug use is too stiff I will say that, it does not fit he crime. However Legal drugs no way, Once MJ is legal the camel has his nose under the tent for making other mind altering drugs  legal.

That’s the same lame logic on gay marriage.  “Now people will marry their dogs and horses!”

If one is to apply the “gateway drug” theory, then 3.2 beer should be outlawed in Oklahoma.  God only knows how many alcoholics started out taking a sip off their old man’s Falstaff or Schlitz.

Legalizing pot doesn’t make people more likely to use it than those who already do or will eventually use it.  It simply lifts the veil of lawlessness associated with it’s use and possession.  I used to use it, and if it were made legal, I would not use it for recreational purposes ever again.

If you are truly the fiscal conservative you claim to be, legalizing MJ is a smart move: we waste untold millions of taxpayer dollars on policing, prosecution, and imprisoning users.  People die due to underground trafficking which is necessary because of it’s illegality.  Secondly, if you bring it out of the dark like they have in Washington and Colorado, it can be taxed and regulated which raises revenue.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on August 21, 2014, 10:22:44 am
I guess I'm a old fud-dud I am against legal MJ. We don't need more people in public not thinking clearly or "mellowed out". We have enough problems with alcohol without adding drivers high on MJ to the streets. MJ can stay in your body for over 4 weeks after you last used it and can show up on a drug test. What effect will legal MJ have in the work place is also a serious question, Example:  some guy who gets high over the weekend is now at work Monday morning  driving a fork lift in a warehouse or operating heavy equipment -or  whatever,  do we really want that? Isn't alcohol enough? I do think the penalty for drug use is too stiff I will say that, it does not fit he crime. However Legal drugs no way, Once MJ is legal the camel has his nose under the tent for making other mind altering drugs  legal.

The only real danger posed by stoned drivers is them getting rear-ended on the highway.  And really, how much damage can somebody do going 25 MPH?

Seriously though, there are too many logic issues and false arguments raised in your post for reasonable discussion. 

Oh, and as somebody who's been the warehousing and distribution area my entire career, I can assure you that the number of Monday morning fork truck drivers with pot in their systems is already quite high.  (Pun intended...)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on August 21, 2014, 03:50:19 pm
I guess I'm a old fud-dud I am against legal MJ. We don't need more people in public not thinking clearly or "mellowed out". We have enough problems with alcohol without adding drivers high on MJ to the streets. MJ can stay in your body for over 4 weeks after you last used it and can show up on a drug test. What effect will legal MJ have in the work place is also a serious question, Example:  some guy who gets high over the weekend is now at work Monday morning  driving a fork lift in a warehouse or operating heavy equipment -or  whatever,  do we really want that? Isn't alcohol enough? I do think the penalty for drug use is too stiff I will say that, it does not fit he crime. However Legal drugs no way, Once MJ is legal the camel has his nose under the tent for making other mind altering drugs  legal.

Legalizing it does not mean that you have a right to use it.   Employers can and will still drug test and if you fail, you can/will be fired.   My brother works for a company that has to pass DOT checks.   It's real easy, if you want to work there you have random screenings that you have to pass.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on August 22, 2014, 09:45:30 am
Legalizing it does not mean that you have a right to use it.   Employers can and will still drug test and if you fail, you can/will be fired.   My brother works for a company that has to pass DOT checks.   It's real easy, if you want to work there you have random screenings that you have to pass.
But use will increase and it says in your system for over 4 weeks after it was last used. How about inbetween the random drug screens?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on August 22, 2014, 09:48:50 am
The only real danger posed by stoned drivers is them getting rear-ended on the highway.  And really, how much damage can somebody do going 25 MPH?

Seriously though, there are too many logic issues and false arguments raised in your post for reasonable discussion. 

Oh, and as somebody who's been the warehousing and distribution area my entire career, I can assure you that the number of Monday morning fork truck drivers with pot in their systems is already quite high.  (Pun intended...)
Not to mention kids in school zones and cross walks, getting hit by a car doing 25 mph can kill ya and with a brain zoned out who knows what will happen, and that's on top of all the alcohol drivers, car insurance rates will likely go if MJ is made legal too. Drivers have to have a clear brain and give 100% attention to driving something that can't be done with a foggy brain on drugs.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on August 22, 2014, 10:09:15 am
Not to mention kids in school zones and cross walks, getting hit by a car doing 25 mph can kill ya and with a brain zoned out who knows what will happen, and that's on top of all the alcohol drivers, car insurance rates will likely go if MJ is made legal too. Drivers have to have a clear brain and give 100% attention to driving something that can't be done with a foggy brain on drugs.

Dude, seriously...   Soooo  many logic flaws and false assumptions...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 22, 2014, 10:31:18 am
Not to mention kids in school zones and cross walks, getting hit by a car doing 25 mph can kill ya and with a brain zoned out who knows what will happen, and that's on top of all the alcohol drivers, car insurance rates will likely go if MJ is made legal too. Drivers have to have a clear brain and give 100% attention to driving something that can't be done with a foggy brain on drugs.


You really haven't learned anything new since 1936 have you?  (Two full years before the country FINALLY outlawed child labor.)



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on August 22, 2014, 12:31:19 pm
Dude, seriously...   Soooo  many logic flaws and false assumptions...
The whole reson for making MJ legal is to alter your brain without being charged with a crime, it's a brain altering drug- otherwise no one would be using MJ. The idea is to get high and  that's what MJ is all about --and it stays in your system for over 4 weeks after you last use it. I think there's a song in that too. :)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 22, 2014, 12:34:58 pm
The whole reson for making MJ legal is to alter your brain without being charged with a crime, it's a brain altering drug- otherwise no one would be using MJ. The idea is to get high and  that's what MJ is all about --and it stays in your system for over 4 weeks after you last use it. I think there's a song in that too. :)

Alcohol does short term and permanent impairment to the brain, ergo a brain-altering drug.  Yet, it’s perfectly legal.  The “four week” residual you keep referring to is not a residual high.  You can smoke a joint at night, wake up the next morning and no ill after effects.  How productive and alert do you think people are with a bad hangover from getting drunk the night before?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 22, 2014, 12:41:44 pm
Alcohol does short term and permanent impairment to the brain, ergo a brain-altering drug.  Yet, it’s perfectly legal.  The “four week” residual you keep referring to is not a residual high.  You can smoke a joint at night, wake up the next morning and no ill after effects.  How productive and alert do you think people are with a bad hangover from getting drunk the night before?

Like beating your head against a wall, isn't it?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 22, 2014, 12:42:56 pm
Like beating your head against a wall, isn't it?


All ya can do is run with it and try to have a little fun along the way....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 25, 2014, 09:28:08 am
I'll make another case against the legalization of MJ- Turns out driver Kevin Ward who was killed on the race track after getting out of his car used MJ, it altered his brains thinking pattern- the #1 rule in racing is you never get out of your car, but when have MJ in your body you do crazy things and that cost him his life, with MJ in his system Kevin Ward got out of his car.. The same things will happen on our city streets if we make MJ legal-  drivers doing crazy things while driving with legal MJ in their system. I understand the car accident rate in Colorado already increased since MJ became legal there. Why do people feel the need to live life in some altered brain state anyhow? Isn't alcohol enough of a buzz? There is no clear answer of what will happen in the workplace with legal MJ, fork lift drivers who used MJ over the weekend, machine operators and the like. Employer Drug testing can pick up MJ in the body  4 weeks or more after it was last used.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 25, 2014, 09:34:55 am
I'll make another case against the legalization of MJ- Turns out driver Kevin Ward who was killed on the race track after getting out of his car used MJ, it altered his brains thinking pattern- the #1 rule in racing is you never get out of your car, but when have MJ in your body you do crazy things and that cost him his life, with MJ in his system Kevin Ward got out of his car.. The same things will happen on our city streets if we make MJ legal-  drivers doing crazy things while driving with legal MJ in their system. I understand the car accident rate in Colorado already increased since MJ became legal there. Why do people feel the need to live life in some altered brain state anyhow? Isn't alcohol enough of a buzz? There is no clear answer of what will happen in the workplace with legal MJ, fork lift drivers who used MJ over the weekend, machine operators and the like. Employer Drug testing can pick up MJ in the body  4 weeks or more after it was last used.

But the cases you make always sound so damned mentally stunted it's as if you are a major burner yourself. 

How can you be against it when you seem to love it so much?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 25, 2014, 10:08:43 am
Actually, no, the accident rate has not been linked to pot use since metabolites of pot stay in the system for weeks, though the user is not “under the influence” after several hours.

http://www.vox.com/2014/9/15/6152309/Colorado-marijuana-DUI-car-accidents-crashes

Colorado’s rate of fatal accidents is actually down by record numbers comparing July 2014 all the way back to July 2002.

(http://img.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2014/08/COTotalDeaths.jpg)

(http://img.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp-content/uploads/sites/22/2014/08/CoTrafficDeaths.jpg)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/08/05/since-marijuana-legalization-highway-fatalities-in-colorado-are-at-near-historic-lows/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 25, 2014, 11:10:40 am
I'll make another case against the legalization of MJ- Turns out driver Kevin Ward who was killed on the race track after getting out of his car used MJ, it altered his brains thinking pattern- the #1 rule in racing is you never get out of your car, but when have MJ in your body you do crazy things and that cost him his life, with MJ in his system Kevin Ward got out of his car.. The same things will happen on our city streets if we make MJ legal-  drivers doing crazy things while driving with legal MJ in their system. I understand the car accident rate in Colorado already increased since MJ became legal there. Why do people feel the need to live life in some altered brain state anyhow? Isn't alcohol enough of a buzz? There is no clear answer of what will happen in the workplace with legal MJ, fork lift drivers who used MJ over the weekend, machine operators and the like. Employer Drug testing can pick up MJ in the body  4 weeks or more after it was last used.


Obviously could not have been that much of an effect, else he would have been chill enough to sit there rather than getting all "Mr. Macho" and get out on the track to try to confront Stewart.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 25, 2014, 01:59:47 pm
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25770838/more-colorado-drivers-fatal-crashes-postive-pot-study   >>> This is not rocket science if you take any substance that alters your brain & thinking patterns and drive a car under that substance it's not going to make ya a safer driver. With more people using pot and driving guess what? :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 25, 2014, 02:01:30 pm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140515173507.htm


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 25, 2014, 02:22:40 pm
the accident rate has not been linked to pot use since metabolites of pot stay in the system for weeks, though the user is not “under the influence” after several hours.

...but you are trying to make that point with someone who believes they are trying to legalize DUI.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 25, 2014, 03:44:31 pm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/05/140515173507.htm


Really??  Total-and-complete-lack-of-ScienceDaily...???



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 25, 2014, 03:46:32 pm
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_25770838/more-colorado-drivers-fatal-crashes-postive-pot-study   >>> This is not rocket science if you take any substance that alters your brain & thinking patterns and drive a car under that substance it's not going to make ya a safer driver. With more people using pot and driving guess what? :D


Irrelevant.  Since the other 49 don't test for mj impairment at the time of an accident, even 1 would mean an increase.  Get some really numbers....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 28, 2014, 02:14:20 pm
...but you are trying to make that point with someone who believes they are trying to legalize DUI.
No, it's the result of what will happen if MJ is made legal. We will not only have MJ users on our highways but also all the illegal drugs on top of that plus alcohol. Making MJ legal will increase the number of people who use it and make our roadways more dangerous. Car insureance rates would likely climb too.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 29, 2014, 12:12:48 pm
No, it's the result of what will happen if MJ is made legal. We will not only have MJ users on our highways but also all the illegal drugs on top of that plus alcohol. Making MJ legal will increase the number of people who use it and make our roadways more dangerous. Car insureance rates would likely climb too.


And once again your "Failin' Stupid Carp" comes through - wouldn't it be refreshing if just once, you would do a little bit of investigation and find out the reality before spewing...??    Just ONCE!!  Is that too much to ask??

Usage rates have been shown for many years to NOT go up when decriminalized/legalized.  Either in this country or internationally.  It's a non-event.  Nothing changes.  (Using short sentences and simple words so you at least have a chance of understanding...)


http://norml.org/aboutmarijuana/item/marijuana-decriminalization-its-impact-on-use-2



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on September 29, 2014, 12:59:28 pm
Usage rates have been shown for many years to NOT go up when decriminalized/legalized.  Either in this country or internationally.  It's a non-event.  Nothing changes. 

I don't believe that. While the number of heavy users may not change, I would bet that more people would try it at least one time if it were legal. I have no basis for this other than a friend in Colorado who is my age and tried a marijuana cookie for the first time. She said her friend threw a party and most of the girls said they had never tried it before.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 29, 2014, 01:08:30 pm

And once again your "Failin' Stupid Carp" comes through - wouldn't it be refreshing if just once, you would do a little bit of investigation and find out the reality before spewing...??    Just ONCE!!  Is that too much to ask??

Usage rates have been shown for many years to NOT go up when decriminalized/legalized.  Either in this country or internationally.  It's a non-event.  Nothing changes.  (Using short sentences and simple words so you at least have a chance of understanding...)


http://norml.org/aboutmarijuana/item/marijuana-decriminalization-its-impact-on-use-2


Sure, Look at who put out that link- it's done by a pro-MJ group. The link also uses the words "no substantial increase" so even they admit there will be some increase in MJ use but it won't be substantial, and what they define as being "substantial" is anybodys guess. When alcohol became legal again  in the 1930's there was an increase in it's use, even though people used alcohol while it was illegal, it stands to reason MJ would be the same way. None the less your going to have people driving cars with altered brains from MJ use or driving a fork lift at work  mellowed out from MJ - thinking he's  even a better  fork lift driver because he's so mellow.  MJ's only real use is to alter your brain, that's the only reason people use it. If MJ had no effect no one would use it. You need to post links that are non-bias that tells it like it is.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 29, 2014, 01:11:59 pm
I don't believe that. While the number of heavy users may not change, I would bet that more people would try it at least one time if it were legal. I have no basis for this other than a friend in Colorado who is my age and tried a marijuana cookie for the first time. She said her friend threw a party and most of the girls said they had never tried it before.
Yep and there is likely more of that going on behind the scenes that never gets reported.  Nope- I don't favor legal MJ in Oklahoma.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on September 29, 2014, 01:13:02 pm
Sure, Look at who put out that link- it's done by a pro-MJ group. The link also uses the words "no substantial increase" so even they admit there will be some increase in MJ use but it won't be substantial, and what they define as being "substantial" is anybodys guess. When alcohol became legal again  in the 1930's there was an increase in it's use, even though people used alcohol while it was illegal, it stands to reason MJ would be the same way. None the less your going to have people driving cars with altered brains from MJ use or driving a fork lift at work  mellowed out from MJ - thinking he's  even a better  fork lift driver because he's so mellow.  MJ's only real use is to alter your brain, that's the only reason people use it. If MJ had no effect no one would use it.

You do realize that you could replace every instance of MJ in your sentence with 'alcohol', right?  Except that MJ is actually a plant that is grown in the ground.  Naturally.  Without distillation.  Also, I've not heard of one instance of someone dying of 'MJ poisoning'.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 29, 2014, 01:18:41 pm
You do realize that you could replace every instance of MJ in your sentence with 'alcohol', right?  Except that MJ is actually a plant that is grown in the ground.  Naturally.  Without distillation.
Well with legal MJ you'll have both  kinds of drivers on the road,  (MJ and drivers and  alcohol drivers) one substance won't be replacing the other- so we'll have drivers that use two different substances while driving or on the job. There is a difference too MJ stays in your system up to 4-5 weeks alcohol does not. The effect MJ has on the body when it's still in your system for 4-5 weeks is not fully known, but I doubt it's anything that's good.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on September 29, 2014, 01:22:21 pm
Well with legal MJ you'll have both  kinds of drivers on the road,  (MJ and drivers and  alcohol drivers) one substance won't be replacing the other- so we'll have drivers that use two different substances while driving or on the job. There is a difference too MJ stays in your system up to 4-5 weeks alcohol does not. The effect MJ has on the body when it's still in your system for 4-5 weeks is not fully known, but I doubt it's anything that's good.

So you're saying you haven't done any research.  Wow, color me surprised.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 29, 2014, 01:24:57 pm
Well with legal MJ you'll have both  kinds of drivers on the road,  (MJ and drivers and  alcohol drivers) one substance won't be replacing the other- so we'll have drivers that use two different substances while driving or on the job. There is a difference too MJ stays in your system up to 4-5 weeks alcohol does not. The effect MJ has on the body when it's still in your system for 4-5 weeks is not fully known, but I doubt it's anything that's good.

Driving under the influence would still be just as illegal as it is now.  Why would there be an uptick just by making it legal?  I look at it this way: if MJ were legal, perhaps people who have been abusing prescription pain killers might turn to MJ instead.  Prescription painkillers are perfectly legal but very lethal in the wrong hands.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 29, 2014, 01:28:23 pm
Sure, Look at who put out that link- it's done by a pro-MJ group. The link also uses the words "no substantial increase" so even they admit there will be some increase in MJ use but it won't be substantial, and what they define as being "substantial" is anybodys guess. When alcohol became legal again  in the 1930's there was an increase in it's use, even though people used alcohol while it was illegal, it stands to reason MJ would be the same way. None the less your going to have people driving cars with altered brains from MJ use or driving a fork lift at work  mellowed out from MJ - thinking he's  even a better  fork lift driver because he's so mellow.  MJ's only real use is to alter your brain, that's the only reason people use it. If MJ had no effect no one would use it.


Quoting people like;

National Academy of Science
Contemporary Drug Problems  (yeah, I know - says Federal on it so kiss of death to you...reality for everyone else.)
Bureau of Tobacco Control and Biometrics, Health and Welfare  (blame Canada!!)
California State Office of Narcotics and Drug Abuse
British Journal of Psychiatry
Netherlands Ministry of Health, Welfare and Sport  (where freedom and liberty actually began...)
Australian Journal of Public Health

If you are concerned about the definition of the word 'substantial', then look it up.  And read some of those papers to see what THEY define as 'substantial'.

As for alcohol, the usage dropped according to 'studies' (referenced here if you really want to know what you are talking about...so, I bet you won't look at any of them), mostly due to lower cirrhosis rates by about 10 - 20%.  One was confused....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcohol_during_and_after_prohibition


But YOU know better than all those high-falutin' intellectuals, don't ya...?


For the VAST majority - beyond any "first time" novelty use, alcohol AND marijuana - of people who use are gonna keep using.  And the ones that don't, won't.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 29, 2014, 01:31:00 pm

If MJ had no effect no one would use it. You need to post links that are non-bias that tells it like it is.



Again, READ!!  Or are you a high school graduate??


Sounds like there may be some alcohol use in play even as we speak....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 29, 2014, 01:32:53 pm
Well with legal MJ you'll have both  kinds of drivers on the road,  (MJ and drivers and  alcohol drivers) one substance won't be replacing the other- so we'll have drivers that use two different substances while driving or on the job. There is a difference too MJ stays in your system up to 4-5 weeks alcohol does not. The effect MJ has on the body when it's still in your system for 4-5 weeks is not fully known, but I doubt it's anything that's good.


And having done NO research, study or even thought hard about the subject, how could YOU possibly know?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on October 07, 2014, 12:31:49 pm
In the news right now MJ causes Schizophrenia, with teen use the risk is higher. This is not rocket science stuff MJ is bad and we don't need legal MJ with thousands MORE people in public on our streets stoned out of their gourd. >>>>  http://www.futurity.org/teen-marijuana-abuse/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on October 07, 2014, 12:44:00 pm

And having done NO research, study or even thought hard about the subject, how could YOU possibly know?


Research? This is not rocket Science, MJ alters your brain that's why people use it-- and it now turns out it can cause schizophrenia & Mental illness.  Bottom line: Do we in  Oklahoma want thousands of Schizophrenia people on our streets and  driving cars by making MJ legal?  We already have enough wacked out people around... Talk about research- I did research on global warming and found that to be a total hoax, many people who  believe in global warming with never check it out for themselves, they just drink the kool-aid. Oops excuse me it's now "Climate Change".


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 07, 2014, 01:20:27 pm
In the news right now MJ causes Schizophrenia, with teen use the risk is higher. This is not rocket science stuff MJ is bad and we don't need legal MJ with thousands MORE people in public on our streets stoned out of their gourd. >>>>  http://www.futurity.org/teen-marijuana-abuse/


Nothing new here.  Same old stuff that has been around forever.  Also, for tobacco as well as alcohol.  That is why, even when things are legal, they are still prohibited for kids.

Still haven't given a rational thought - maybe teen tobacco/alcohol use explains some things here...??



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 07, 2014, 01:50:25 pm
Research? This is not rocket Science, MJ alters your brain that's why people use it-- and it now turns out it can cause schizophrenia & Mental illness.  Bottom line: Do we in  Oklahoma want thousands of Schizophrenia people on our streets and  driving cars by making MJ legal?  We already have enough wacked out people around... Talk about research- I did research on global warming and found that to be a total hoax, many people who  believe in global warming with never check it out for themselves, they just drink the kool-aid. Oops excuse me it's now "Climate Change".


And as always, you prove once again, you know nothing about the topic.  There have ALWAYS been people roaming around with MJ wandering through their system to varying degrees.  And the degree of that participation doesn't change in any detectable fashion after legalization.  And the adverse societal effects have been shown to be nil - if nothing else, just by the lack of a body count.  Unlike alcohol AND tobacco - very noticeable body counts! 


You researched nothing on global warming - the studies are on global climate change.  And you didn't research any further than Jim Inhofe, Rush Limbaugh, and Matt Drudge - and even though they are all top noted climate scientists, they are on the wrong side of the facts.  Because climate change has actually been found to be real...wouldn't expect you to understand.  It has been shown to be affected by human activity.  This is the reality.

The only open questions relate to what effects it's gonna have on us, and just the most casual curiosity of what initiated the process this time around.  And that is not likely to be a cut and dried answer and really doesn't matter anyway, since we live in an analog continuum where everything is changing all the time.  We have been warmer and we have been colder.  The current CO2 levels are the only new thing that has entered into the equation - and we all know where that comes from!








   




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 14, 2014, 10:02:09 am
Denver police are worried people will give out their expensive cannabis candy to Trick-or-Treaters:

http://www.ladybud.com/2014/10/14/denver-police-watch-out-for-medicated-halloween-candy/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 20, 2014, 08:30:51 am
I saw one of those things running around the internet that did a great job of explaining the difference between drunks and stoners....and why there is less worry about the stoners....


Drunk people run stop signs!

High people wait for them to turn green...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on October 23, 2014, 01:05:02 pm
BTW That Brown guy in Missouri who was shot by the cop, yep, the autopsy results came in and  his body was loaded with THC- it likely  affected his thinking when he knocked over the store and attacked the cop. He was using that stuff-- can you blame MJ 100% for  what Brown did?  maybe not, but it played a part it affects your noodle your  thinking, reasoning and logic. Without it in his system he may of responded better to the cops request and not of grabbed the cops gun. I'm just sayin'.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 23, 2014, 04:07:07 pm
BTW That Brown guy in Missouri who was shot by the cop, yep, the autopsy results came in and  his body was loaded with THC- it likely  affected his thinking when he knocked over the store and attacked the cop. He was using that stuff-- can you blame MJ 100% for  what Brown did?  maybe not, but it played a part it affects your noodle your  thinking, reasoning and logic. Without it in his system he may of responded better to the cops request and not of grabbed the cops gun. I'm just sayin'.


Again, you try to conflate the effects of alcohol and marijuana.  The amount in his bloodstream would have been very small....if he was stoned, he would have mellowed out and not done the convenience store, or resisted the cop, if that is what happened - not saying it is...still don't have the whole story.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on November 03, 2014, 01:56:16 pm

Again, you try to conflate the effects of alcohol and marijuana.  The amount in his bloodstream would have been very small....if he was stoned, he would have mellowed out and not done the convenience store, or resisted the cop, if that is what happened - not saying it is...still don't have the whole story.


It should be remembed that the MJ of today is much more stronger than of past eras. It's effect is harder hitting to. No one who favors making MJ legal mentions that, they like to pretend it's  the same  MJ  of bygone eras, when it's much more potant.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on November 03, 2014, 01:58:17 pm
Some states are voting on making MJ legal I think FL is one of those states. It'll be intresting to see how the vote turns out. I think we have enough people with altered brains in public using  alcohol, we don't need to add MJ to that list.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 03, 2014, 02:21:16 pm
Some states are voting on making MJclueless al I think FL is one of those states. It'll be intresting to see how the vote turns out. I think we have enough people with altered brains in public using  alcohol, we don't need to add MJ to that list.

I think you need to read up on what states are voting for recreational use opposed to Florida where the vote is for Medical Marijuana.

But I keep forgeting that you are just am old school voter that checks the box to vote for the party and then are clueless as to what anything else is about.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 03, 2014, 03:10:41 pm
Some states are voting on making MJ legal I think FL is one of those states. It'll be intresting to see how the vote turns out. I think we have enough people with altered brains in public using  alcohol, we don't need to add MJ to that list.

(http://www.loveatfirstpage.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/3sdm8n.jpg)


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on November 03, 2014, 03:38:47 pm
I agree.  We certainly have enough people with altered brains.

Ed W


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 03, 2014, 04:09:19 pm
It should be remembed that the MJ of today is much more stronger than of past eras. It's effect is harder hitting to. No one who favors making MJ legal mentions that, they like to pretend it's  the same  MJ  of bygone eras, when it's much more potant.


Ahhh...that's true...so the effect will be multiplied, leading to even greater waits at stop signs!  Slowing of traffic must be prevented at all costs.....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on November 03, 2014, 04:56:26 pm

But I keep forgeting that you are just am old school voter that checks the box to vote for the party and then are clueless as to what anything else is about.

you have to vote to do that


Title: Re:
Post by: Red Arrow on November 03, 2014, 06:11:01 pm
I agree.  We certainly have enough people with altered brains.

Ed W

In some cases, it's an improvement.
 
 ;D



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on November 03, 2014, 08:25:16 pm
And if you smoke enough weed, your eyes can do this permanently. It's science.

(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/551358.gif)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on November 03, 2014, 08:31:13 pm
And if you smoke enough weed, your eyes can do this permanently. It's science.

(http://userserve-ak.last.fm/serve/252/551358.gif)

It also makes you a great piano player.....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKID2LRzIdY[/youtube]



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 05, 2014, 01:58:23 pm
DENVER (AP) — Oregon, Alaska and Washington, D.C., voted to legalize recreational marijuana Tuesday. The drug is already legal for people 21 and older in Colorado and Washington, thanks to ballot measures voted on in 2012.

It was a whole new frontier for those states, so here are some hints from the legal weed states on what the new places can expect:

UNCLE SAM IS (MOSTLY) LOOKING THE OTHER WAY

Some expected a federal lawsuit when Washington and Colorado flouted federal drug law, which considers pot illegal for any purpose. But last summer, the U.S. Justice Department said it wouldn’t interfere with state marijuana laws as long as the states tightly regulate the drug and make efforts to keep it from children, criminal drug cartels and other states. There have since been isolated federal raids on pot businesses in Colorado, but no widespread federal crackdown on the industry in either state.

LEGAL POT BRINGS IN SOME GREEN

Pro-marijuana advocates predicted that legal weed would be a huge windfall for Washington and Colorado. Marijuana opponents predicted the drug would prove a drain on state finances because of higher law enforcement costs. Both sides were wrong. Colorado is on track to bring in some $84 million this year from medical and recreational pot taxes and fees. Washington by some estimates will it bring in more than $50 million between 2015 and 2017. That’s not chump change, but in the mix of multibillion-dollar state budgets, legal pot isn’t exactly a game-changer.

LEGALIZATION MEANS NEW THINGS BECOME ILLEGAL

Washington and Colorado both had to create a raft of new crimes when pot became legal. That’s because when weed was illegal for all, there was no such thing as, say, the crime of providing weed to someone under 21. The new legal weed states will need hundreds of pages of new ordinances governing how and where marijuana can be produced, sold and consumed.

MORE DRIVERS MAY TEST POSITIVE FOR WEED

Colorado and Washington both have seen an uptick in drivers testing positive for marijuana. But traffic fatalities in both states are down. Marijuana proponents and opponents argue about whether the increase is a result of more testing, or whether more folks are driving high. There’s still no widely available roadside pot test similar to an alcohol breath test, though saliva tests are in development. Convictions for driving stoned in Colorado and Washington for now rely on blood tests.

NOT CLEAR WHETHER OVERALL POT USE GOES UP

Though it’s been two years since Colorado and Washington legalized weed, it’s too soon to say whether more people are using it. That’s because drug use is gauged by survey responses, so changes take time to show up in public health metrics. All eyes will be on 2015’s “Monitoring The Future” survey, a federal youth assessment of risky behaviors. Next year’s is the first post-legalization survey to include state-specific data. Both states have increased marijuana-related admissions to hospitals and substance abuse treatment facilities, but marijuana remains a small fraction of admissions.

PEOPLE STILL DRINK

Some wondered whether widely available pot would have people replacing cocktails with joints. But according to alcohol-tax receipts in both states, legal weed appears to have little impact on how much alcohol people drink.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 11, 2014, 07:39:00 pm
Oklahoma's cannabis debate: Battling confusion
A special report on the 10-year-old Oklahoma girl who's inspiring one lawmaker to go way outside his comfort zone--- to push for the legalization of medical cannabis.

http://www.fox23.com/videos/news/oklahomas-cannabis-debate-battling-confusion/vC2M4f/








Meanwhile, Curbing New York City's Low-Level Marijuana Arrests is really only window dressing.

Quote
“This new policy will reduce unnecessary arrests for minor marijuana possession and put an end to an era where many of young New Yorkers were being arrested and saddled with criminal records for minor violations,” Mayor de Blasio said in a statement. De Blasio said the change would direct police resources “towards more serious crime” and not waste “officer time processing unnecessary arrests.”

New York City has been called the marijuana arrest capital of the world, even though New York state technically decriminalized possessing less than 25 grams of the drug in 1977. Currently, someone caught passing a joint to a friend is considered a drug dealer.

The decriminalization law was intended to affect people carrying small amounts in a pocket or backpack, for example. Since the 1990s however, NYPD officers have routinely compelled black and Latino New Yorkers during stop-and-frisk encounters to empty their pockets. When marijuana comes into “public view,” the person can be charged with a misdemeanor.
"Real reform requires an end to unlawful searches, since they are a main driver of unlawful marijuana arrests."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/10/new-york-city-marijuana-arrests_n_6136686.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 11, 2014, 08:54:54 pm
Oklahoma's cannabis debate: Battling confusion
A special report on the 10-year-old Oklahoma girl who's inspiring one lawmaker to go way outside his comfort zone--- to push for the legalization of medical cannabis.


Meanwhile, Curbing New York City's Low-Level Marijuana Arrests is really only window dressing.




Amazing hypocrisy from that guy!  Truly breath-taking!

So NOW....that it affects HIM directly....THEN all of a sudden, he is a convert.... It's HIS niece now!  Well, she could just go to Colorado like everyone else has to.  But it would then mean HIS family has to deal with the associated hardships!  And that would be wrong....they are really THAT much more special than everyone else!   I bet he has been against even doing research on the topic until right now!!

He is trying to pick out one little piece of it for his niece - as evidenced by saying "that larger debate needs to wait" - the debate on compounds with higher levels of THC.  It's important to do this now for his niece!

That is the prevalent and most pervasive "sense of entitlement" in this country - NOT people on Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid!!  And we just keep on electing them...over and over and over.



His info....
http://www.okhouse.gov/district.aspx?District=90


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 13, 2014, 05:42:42 pm
I just saw something in another area of the matrix that now has me very concerned and rethinking my support of the whole marijuana issue.  It was a warning to Santa to NOT eat the cookies or brownies in Colorado or Washington!  This could have major catastrophic consequences - depending on his travel path, he might not make it here!!  This could be terrible!!  What have we wrought upon our world??



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 13, 2014, 06:10:51 pm
I just saw something in another area of the matrix that now has me very concerned and rethinking my support of the whole marijuana issue.  It was a warning to Santa to NOT eat the cookies or brownies in Colorado or Washington!  This could have major catastrophic consequences - depending on his travel path, he might not make it here!!  This could be terrible!!  What have we wrought upon our world??

Was it the same people that used their grant money to warn frightened parents that medical marijuana users would be giving out all their expensive edible candy to trick-or-treaters?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/01/halloween-marijuana-fears/18339489/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 13, 2014, 10:18:15 pm
Was it the same people that used their grant money to warn frightened parents that medical marijuana users would be giving out all their expensive edible candy to trick-or-treaters?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/11/01/halloween-marijuana-fears/18339489/



Naw...this was one of the elves giving Santa a "heads up"....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 14, 2014, 01:10:56 pm
Naw...this was one of the elves giving Santa a "heads up"....

Faces of Cannabis

http://faceofcannabis.wordpress.com

Its not what you think.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 15, 2014, 02:15:43 pm
Oklahoma native revolutionizing medical marijuana
http://www.fox23.com/news/news/local/oklahoma-native-revolutionizing-medical-marijuana/nh7ZG/

“Yes, you need to make sure this doesn't get into the hands of criminal organizations. Yes, you need to make sure that this product doesn't make people sicker ... because of molds, contaminants, pesticides. There needs to be oversight. But the oversight doesn't need to be scared,” he said.
 
He has a vision for Oklahoma.
 “We can create more jobs; we can stop feeding the prison system,” he said.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 16, 2014, 08:16:46 pm
Faces of Cannabis

http://faceofcannabis.wordpress.com

Its not what you think.


What a beautiful bunch of babies!!  

Very good friend grew up having seizures from epilepsy.  Sometimes better controlled than others....  Our group was always very protective - at that time, epilepsy was still considered as "satanic possession" by way too many people in northeast Oklahoma who should have known better....  Always thought she could have been helped by taking a hit from time to time.

And yet today, we still have TRUE evil in this world - in this country - that will deny even allowing research on the substance, let alone use in applications that have already been shown to have tremendous effect and help!!  Forcing these innocent babies to suffer for NO reason other than the incarnation of their own satanic possession!!

And I don't even believe in satanic possession....



And on a related note - Kurt Glassco won re-election to his judgeship.  Says volumes on what people in this district really want - they want behind the scene deals for attempted murder - as long as they are white guys with all the connection benefits that being on the "inside" with all their buddy cronies with connections to the DA's office and the "movers and shakers" around town.  Had it been a poor black guy, what would assault with a deadly weapon on a couple of white minors out in suburbia - using an assault weapon SKS - get for a prison term??   10  years "observation" of behavior while they go about their life??  I'm guessing no.....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 20, 2014, 11:10:45 am
And yet today, we still have TRUE evil in this world - in this country - that will deny even allowing research on the substance, let alone use in applications that have already been shown to have tremendous effect and help



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRBAZJ4lF0U[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 20, 2014, 11:27:18 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IRBAZJ4lF0U[/youtube]



"Smooth....."


One on left lied....she has smoked before...!!




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 22, 2014, 12:54:01 pm
Yes it's an ad, just go with it.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Xt_WnCYnsU[/youtube]



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 08, 2014, 06:25:25 pm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyi0QrPMq4 [/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 08, 2014, 06:52:07 pm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyi0QrPMq4 [/youtube]


i eat cheese, too!!  'Cause I'm an American...!!




These are the droids you're looking for!


The pot pie looked pretty good....now, I gotta warm up some turkey and dressing - leftovers from Apple Barrel Cafe lunch yesterday!  Yum!!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 11, 2014, 07:53:30 pm

Feds: Native American Tribes Can Make Their Own Marijuana Laws

GRANTS PASS, Ore. (AP) — The U.S. Justice Department said Thursday Indian tribes can grow and sell marijuana on their lands as long as they follow the same federal conditions laid out for states that have legalized the drug.


(http://www.usnews.com/cmsmedia/06/f8/0225fcee4130b9f5b7fff8b73ab8/141211-indianlands-editorial.jpg)





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 11, 2014, 08:03:51 pm

Feds: Native American Tribes Can Make Their Own Marijuana Laws

GRANTS PASS, Ore. (AP) — The U.S. Justice Department said Thursday Indian tribes can grow and sell marijuana on their lands as long as they follow the same federal conditions laid out for states that have legalized the drug.


(http://www.usnews.com/cmsmedia/06/f8/0225fcee4130b9f5b7fff8b73ab8/141211-indianlands-editorial.jpg)




Kinda ironic... looks like Congress is going to put that into law, but prevent DC from implementing their duly elected law.

If I didn't know better I might think they are finally backing off the oppression of the tribes by the full force and weight of the US, while keeping their thumb on black people in DC by the full force and weight of the US.

Or would that be too indelicate to state outright....?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 12, 2014, 10:14:51 am
Kinda ironic... looks like Congress is going to put that into law, but prevent DC from implementing their duly elected law.

People and businesses we are trying to attract might look at Tulsa a bit differently if they knew you could legally have a joint at The Joint.

What is ironic is that we could have recreational use before we even gave an honest look at medicinal use.  There are patients who could this minute benefit from the non-intoxicating components like CBD.   But... elected and non-elected officials can turn their back on children with uncontrollable seizures under the false cover of "preserving family values" by enforcing laws that were created for all the wrong reasons.

Oh, well, just bring the kids to the casino...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on December 12, 2014, 12:19:42 pm

Feds: Native American Tribes Can Make Their Own Marijuana Laws

GRANTS PASS, Ore. (AP) — The U.S. Justice Department said Thursday Indian tribes can grow and sell marijuana on their lands as long as they follow the same federal conditions laid out for states that have legalized the drug.




So while I'm eye-balling Osage county, what does this mean to the Tulsa Irish?


Title: Re:
Post by: LeGenDz on December 12, 2014, 12:40:39 pm
http://m.tulsaworld.com/dailybreak/no-pot-sales-for-oklahoma-tribes-official-says/article_dea1c5e0-bf2c-524c-adaa-36638d35a1db.html?mode=jqm


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 12, 2014, 01:27:48 pm
So while I'm eye-balling Osage county, what does this mean to the Tulsa Irish?

That it's a good thing the Hard Rock Cafe has a nearby hotel?   ;D




One U.S. Attorney, Sanford Coats, said he "doesnt believe the door is wide open for tribal marijuana sales."

"Coats said he believes any decision not to enforce federal marijuana laws on Indian lands would be limited to states that have voted to liberalize marijuana laws."
  even though the DOJ memo didnt make that distinction.

But the Chairman of the committee Coats is speaking for has another view:

Timothy Purdom, the U.S. attorney for North Dakota and the chairman of the attorney general’s subcommittee on Native American issues, explained to the Los Angeles Times that federal prosecutors will not enforce federal pot laws as long as reservations meet the same guidelines as states that have opted for legalization. He also said the federal government will continue to support any marijuana bans passed by tribal councils, even when the state allows recreational use.  In other words: The government will let tribal governments decide what to do about pot.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/12/12/native-american-reservations-now-free-to-legalize-marijuana/



"I can’t see how that would even be possible in Oklahoma because we don’t have any legalized sale of marijuana here,"
Coats said.

We dont have legalized gambling in Oklahoma, either, yet you can go to a tribal Casino and gamble away the day.




And then there's this:

In a landmark moment for cannabis law reform, the U.S. House of Representatives approved a measure late Thursday night to de-fund the federal war on medical marijuana.
http://blog.sfgate.com/smellthetruth/2014/12/12/congress-ends-war-on-medical-marijuana/













Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 14, 2014, 07:06:39 pm
So while I'm eye-balling Osage county, what does this mean to the Tulsa Irish?


It means we are still as screwed as ever.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 15, 2014, 11:30:35 am

It means we are still as screwed as ever.

The casino operators would not overlook an opportunity to pull in new cash hand-over-fist here, and thats exactly what they would be doing by being the first to offer legal cannabis as part of their tourism package.

If the tribes were truly caught off guard by the DOJ announcement, we would be naive to think that they arent at this very moment scrambling to put together a business model that will hit the ground running.  I would not be surprised if they didnt already have people in Colorado and Washington researching their butts off.   Fallin and the for-profit prison lobbyists must be worried, as well. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 15, 2014, 12:15:10 pm

Fallin and the for-profit prison lobbyists must be worried, as well. 



Naw...she has the Oklahoma electorate firmly in hand so she don't care.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 18, 2014, 03:36:45 pm
Oklahoma sues Colorado over legal Cannabis.


Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt argued that under the U.S. Constitution's Supremacy Clause, Colorado's legalization of recreational marijuana is unconstitutional because marijuana remains illegal under federal law.
The clause states that in general, federal law takes precedence over state law.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/18/lawsuit-colorado-marijuana_n_6350162.html



I wonder how Pruitt views states rights on other issues?  Hmmm.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 18, 2014, 04:18:49 pm
Oklahoma sues Colorado over legal Cannabis.


Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt argued that under the U.S. Constitution's Supremacy Clause, Colorado's legalization of recreational marijuana is unconstitutional because marijuana remains illegal under federal law.
The clause states that in general, federal law takes precedence over state law.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/18/lawsuit-colorado-marijuana_n_6350162.html



I wonder how Pruitt views states rights on other issues?  Hmmm.

Pruitt is an idiot.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 18, 2014, 09:01:06 pm
Pruitt is an idiot.


...and he got us spanked by the national media:



Conservative Republican attorneys general in Oklahoma and Nebraska waited until December to claim title to the “Nuisance Lawsuit of 2014.”  They are suing neighboring Colorado over its legalization of marijuana.

If they can’t keep same-sex couples from getting married, one supposes, these backward states want to go on busting young people for marijuana possession, permanently damaging lives and discrediting the criminal justice system it is the AGs’ job to uphold.

Washington and Colorado voted, in 2012, to legalize, regulate and tax a substance that has been smoked or eaten by an estimated 100 million Americans.  Our future 44th president made reference to it in his Honolulu high school yearbook.  Our 42nd president claimed that he puffed but didn’t inhale.

The U.S. Constitution’s 18th Amendment, instituting Prohibition, set off a march of folly.  President Warren G. Harding quaffed highballs at his poker games. Urban gangsters went on murder sprees to control the business.  A 250-gallon still blew up in the mining town of Ronald, Washington, taking 28 homes with it.

America quickly saw that Prohibition was counterproductive and a mockery. It was enforced for just 13 years, from 1920 to 1933.

By contrast, the 1970 Controlled Substances Act has undermined the credibility of America’s criminal justice system for 45 years.

Between 2001 and 2010, more than 8.1 million marijuana arrests were made in America.  Nine out of 10 were for simple possession.

In 2012, for instance, 658,000 Americans were arrested for simply possessing pot (down from 754,000 in 2008), compared to 521,000 for violent crimes and 256,000 for possession and/or distribution of cocaine, heroin and genuinely addictive substances.

The march to folly grew more rapidly in some places, with such practices as New York’s “broken window” policy of concentrating enforcement on petty crime. Marijuana possession arrests went from 800 in 1991 to 59,000 in 2010, the vast majority being Black and Hispanic young men.

Who gets busted?  Well, let’s look at plaintiff states in the suit filed on Thursday.  In Nebraska, an African-American is 4.5 times more likely to be arrested than a white, according to statistics compiled by the American Civil Liberties Union.  It’s 2.8 times in Oklahoma, relatively benign compared to other states.

Yet, yet, Oklahoma and Nebraska charge that Colorado’s legal pot policies have created “a dangerous gap in the federal drug control system.”

How so?  At an annual cost to taxpayers of $3.6 billion, that control system has controlled nothing.  Thirty-five states and the District of Columbia have legalized medical marijuana.  On April 20 (and at Seattle’s summer Hempfest) thousands of people openly defy the law.

Oklahoma and Nebraska are reminiscent of the last European country (Portugal) that tried to hold onto its colonies, or the 17 states that still had laws against interracial marriage when the U.S. Supreme Court issued its Loving v. Virginia ruling.

“Marijuana flows from this gap into neighboring states, undermining Plaintiffs states’ own marijuana bans, draining their treasuries and placing stress on their criminal justice systems,” Oklahoma and Nebraska argue in their brief to the U.S. Supreme Court.

But it is the futile, long-ago-lost “War on Drugs” that is draining their treasuries, and marijuana possession cases and incarcerations that are stressing out their criminal justices systems … and has been so doing long before the “Rocky Mountain high” vote of 2012.

The Controlled Substances Act is still on the books — don’t expect Camel-puffing House Speaker John Boehner to support its repeal — but is the most-ignored federal prohibition since, well, Prohibition.
(Ed: Congress pulled the plug on funding the federal war on medical marijuana just last week)

Fortunately, Washington has more enlightened neighbors south of the Columbia River and north of the 49th parallel.  Indeed, while illegal, marijuana is by far British Columbia’s most valuable agricultural crop.

The Supreme Court has jurisdiction in controversies between two or more states. The Supremes will decide whether to hear the Oklahoma-Nebraska lawsuit.

Here’s hoping Washington Attorney General Bob Ferguson files a strong brief supporting Colorado, arguing that the Nebraska-Oklahoma lawsuit is not only without merit but lacks even a modest use of intelligence.


http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlepolitics/2014/12/18/oklahoma-nebraska-a-nuisance-lawsuit-against-colorado-marijuana/



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: CoffeeBean on December 18, 2014, 09:16:12 pm
Regardless of whether you disagree with Colorado, Oklahoma can't force it to pass a law.

Does Oklahoma get to determine the sanction too? 

This toes the line of frivolity.

It won't happen, but I'd love to see SCOTUS issue a show cause order for Oklahoma to explain why sanctions should not issue for wasting the Court's time. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 19, 2014, 12:17:00 am
And we just keep on showing the nation and the world why they should all flock to our "shores"....

Well, it was still over half the electorate that voted for the clown.  So, we just can't seem to take off the clown suit and grow up.  Again.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 19, 2014, 09:45:45 am
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/9a/69a8ffe0-6a5f-5dc9-9530-591bde7a187b/5488f66d05549.image.jpg?resize=300%2C437)

Does he remind any of you of a certain "smirking chimp”?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 19, 2014, 09:59:38 am
(http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/6/9a/69a8ffe0-6a5f-5dc9-9530-591bde7a187b/5488f66d05549.image.jpg?resize=300%2C437)

Does he remind any of you of a certain "smirking chimp”?


George Bush.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 19, 2014, 11:28:04 am

Does he remind any of you of a certain "smirking chimp”?


Pruitt said they are in talks with law enforcement across the state about the extra costs of protecting the border from Colorado marijuana.

So our AG is "pre-suing" for damages he thinks must exist but doesnt offer any proof of.
Whats in the other 100+ pages of this suit?  Maybe a slick ad campaign to counter Faces of Cannabis (https://faceofcannabis.wordpress.com)

We are so on the wrong side of history with this pettiness.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 19, 2014, 12:34:32 pm

Pruitt said they are in talks with law enforcement across the state about the extra costs of protecting the border from Colorado marijuana.

So our AG is "pre-suing" for damages he thinks must exist but doesnt offer any proof of.
Whats in the other 100+ pages of this suit?  Maybe a slick ad campaign to counter Faces of Cannabis (https://faceofcannabis.wordpress.com)

We are so on the wrong side of history with this pettiness.

So, do we now set up border crossings at the points of entry with Colorado?  String up a border fence?

I’m thinking Pruitt is more like this guy:

(http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/MAD-Magazine-Alfred-E-Neuman-Norman-Mingo.jpg)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on December 19, 2014, 01:01:45 pm
Pruitt said they are in talks with law enforcement across the state about the extra costs of protecting the border from Colorado marijuana.

I mean, I get it.  Pot is so hard to come by here in OK that there will be huge flood tide of stoners making the run to CO to bring back some quality weed...

(Sarcasm definitely intended)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on December 19, 2014, 01:30:52 pm
I mean, I get it.  Pot is so hard to come by here in OK that there will be huge flood tide of stoners making the run to CO to bring back some quality weed...

(Sarcasm definitely intended)

I was wondering about that.  Is he being pressured by OK pot growers and Ken Miller that this could really hit OK's economy?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 19, 2014, 02:17:35 pm
Quote from: Pruitt says
States Rights! Economic Development!  Will of the People!

Unless we don't like it.  Then screw all of that.  To Uncle Sam to force my will on Colorado!  Tra la la!

Poorly thought out, hypocritical case. Facts aren't clear, law seems shady (Oklahoma doesn't like Colorados law that might affect Oklahoma).  Seems like another in a long line of losers for Oklahoma's Attorney General's office, to along with:

1) Suing Arkansas
2) Suing Texas
3) Suing Uncle same repeatedly
4) Gay marriage
5) 2009 Tort reform
6) 2011 Tort reform
7) Most of the provisions in the new WC law

I dont think Oklahoma requires a state permit for certain types of firearms illegal in other states.  Missouri is one of those states. Can Missouri sue Oklahoma to force Oklahoma to make firearms Missouri doesn't like illegal because some citizen of Missouri might utilize Oklahoma's added freedoms to break the law in Missouri?  Seems crappy to me. Alcohol sales are legal in New Mexico on Sundays... should we sue New Mexico because Oklahomans might go over there and buy beer on Sunday?

Better yet: the reasoning is stupid. More pot coming in to Oklahoma from Colorado?  

Question: How much pot did the average Oklahoma citizen smoke before pot was legal in Colorado?
Answer: however much pot an Oklahoman chose to buy.

Did you ever hear the police say "the war on drugs has been really successful, we've cut down on the pot supply to the point where it is hard to get." Because all of the people I know that smoke(d) pot didn't seem to have a real tough time getting it.  Some of them didn't even have much money, but seemed to be able to obtain and afford marijuana long before it was legal in Colorado.

What makes legal pot in Colorado all of a sudden flood the Oklahoma market? They haven't had time to build up over size grow operations. If anything, one would think the marginal increase in demand (former casual users that are now professionals may rejoin the market and buy recreational marijuana whereas before they had a greater risk of damaging their career with criminal charges, etc.).  One would think an increase in demand would make marijuana harder to come by in neighboring states as Colorado "sucked up" the market supply. Weren't we all told there would be a huge increase in demand and illegal trafficking if we made it legal?

Anyone "know someone" who frequently purchases marijuana and can say if it is easier or harder, cheaper or more expensive to get marijuana in Oklahoma?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 19, 2014, 02:21:09 pm
He should sue North Korea and Kim Jung Un next for the irreparable economic damage done by the release of “The Interview” being cancelled in Oklahoma theaters.    :o


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 19, 2014, 05:30:37 pm
I was thinking we should sue John Steinbeck for the reputation harm he did to Oklahoma.

Sure he wrote it 75 years ago and the SOL is blown.
Yeah he died 35 years ago.
And there is that whole first amendment crap to deal with.

But I say we go all in!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on December 19, 2014, 11:02:05 pm
Poorly thought out, hypocritical case. Facts aren't clear, law seems shady (Oklahoma doesn't like Colorados law that might affect Oklahoma).  Seems like another in a long line of losers for Oklahoma's Attorney General's office



Too many Oklahomans and Nebraskans are buying weed in Colorado and bringing it back home, and it has made the attorney generals in those states sad. They want Uncle Sam to take Colorado's legal weed away and give it back to the black market so that the drug cartels, corrupt government officials, and the prison industry can go back to business as usual.

http://boingboing.net/2014/12/19/oklahoma-and-nebraska-ask-supr.html




With more than a hundred pages, Pruitt has likely not even read the whole suit, handed down to him from a much-too-powerful-union.

His nose is so far up it, no wonder he Cant Breathe.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: guido911 on December 20, 2014, 12:19:41 am

Well, it was still over half the electorate that voted for the clown.  So, we just can't seem to take off the clown suit and grow up.  Again.




I know. But enough about Obama....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: guido911 on December 20, 2014, 12:26:05 am
Here is a link to the AG website setting out more than just the above few cherry-picked issues his office has been involved in.

http://www.ok.gov/triton/modules/newsroom/newsroom.php?id=258

For what its worth, I have litigated against the AG office on several occasions. Good lawyers.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: guido911 on December 20, 2014, 12:48:36 am
Oklahoma sues Colorado over legal Cannabis.


Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt argued that under the U.S. Constitution's Supremacy Clause, Colorado's legalization of recreational marijuana is unconstitutional because marijuana remains illegal under federal law.
The clause states that in general, federal law takes precedence over state law.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/18/lawsuit-colorado-marijuana_n_6350162.html



I wonder how Pruitt views states rights on other issues?  Hmmm.

Good question. I wonder how you feel about Oklahomans overwhelmingly voting to oppose gay marriage. How did that work out for them? I bet you really liked the last sentence from that Huffingpaint post:

Quote
Our federalist system is based on individual states being able to enact policies that benefit their citizens, without the interference of other states," Polis said.

Apparently you and that congressman did not get the "federal law trumps state" law memo. As an FYI, here's a copy of the petition so you can read for yourself what is really going on--rather than reading some agenda-driven blogger. You may be disappointed as there seems to be no allegations that some cop was randomly beating innocent people for their personal enjoyment...

http://links.govdelivery.com/track?type=click&enid=ZWFzPTEmbWFpbGluZ2lkPTIwMTQxMjE4LjM5NTQwNTkxJm1lc3NhZ2VpZD1NREItUFJELUJVTC0yMDE0MTIxOC4zOTU0MDU5MSZkYXRhYmFzZWlkPTEwMDEmc2VyaWFsPTE3MDIyMDE1JmVtYWlsaWQ9YWFyb24uY29vcGVyQG9hZy5vay5nb3YmdXNlcmlkPWFhcm9uLmNvb3BlckBvYWcub2suZ292JmZsPSZleHRyYT1NdWx0aXZhcmlhdGVJZD0mJiY=&&&101&&&http://www.ok.gov/oag/documents/NE%20%20OK%20v%20%20CO%20-%20Original%20Action.pdf


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on December 20, 2014, 01:03:19 pm
Good question. I wonder how you feel about Oklahomans overwhelmingly voting to oppose gay marriage.

Oklahomans realized their mistake and moved on.  It was a dumbassed move in the first place.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 20, 2014, 02:09:20 pm
So, do we now set up border crossings at the points of entry with Colorado?  String up a border fence?


Thousands of people are petitioning Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt and Nebraska Attorney General Jon Bruning, asking them to withdraw the lawsuit.
http://kfor.com/2014/12/20/new-petition-asks-oklahoma-attorney-general-to-withdraw-lawsuit-against-colorado/



Wallace Collins, the chairman of the Oklahoma Democratic Party, issued the following statement regarding Pruitt’s involvement with the lawsuit:

    “It is astounding that Mr. Pruitt didn’t even realize that the Republican bill passed by his colleagues last week contains language that prohibits the US Department of Justice from interfering with state marijuana laws. It is ironic that Mr. Pruitt is the crusader against frivolous lawsuits, but he personally files a significant number of them. Also, I though Mr. Pruitt campaigned on home rule and local control, but he is the first to fight local control and home rule. Did the pharmaceutical industry write this lawsuit for him?”

When speaking about the pharmaceutical industry, Collins is referring to a recent controversy involving Pruitt and his alleged ties with energy companies
( http://kfor.com/2014/12/08/i-was-stunned-ny-times-article-blasts-oklahoma-attorney-general-accuses-him-of-secret-alliance ).



https://www.change.org/p/scott-pruitt-withdraw-the-lawsuit-against-colorado-s-marijuana-legalization-laws


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on December 20, 2014, 08:00:52 pm
According to the Whirled, Oklahoma authorities are confiscating bags of marijuana that contain from 15 to 400 pounds. A non-resident cannot legally purchase more than 1/4 of an ounce and a resident cannot purchase more than an ounce. So those buyers and sellers - if this does indeed originate in Colorado - are already breaking the law. State and federal authorities have raided a few grow operations for back door sales.

So it seems our AG's effort is an attempt to make what is illegal more illegaler. Next thing you know, he'll put Colorado on double secret probation.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/oklahoma-officials-say-colorado-unable-to-control-marijuana-industry/article_8d000885-d18a-5055-ab0b-a1dbb45e0d71.html (http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/oklahoma-officials-say-colorado-unable-to-control-marijuana-industry/article_8d000885-d18a-5055-ab0b-a1dbb45e0d71.html)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 21, 2014, 11:24:52 am
According to the Whirled, Oklahoma authorities are confiscating bags of marijuana that contain from 15 to 400 pounds. A non-resident cannot legally purchase more than 1/4 of an ounce and a resident cannot purchase more than an ounce. So those buyers and sellers - if this does indeed originate in Colorado - are already breaking the law. State and federal authorities have raided a few grow operations for back door sales.

So it seems our AG's effort is an attempt to make what is illegal more illegaler. Next thing you know, he'll put Colorado on double secret probation.

For those who dont read the Whirled, here's what your missing:


“If Colorado had merely legalized marijuana for personal use and possession then there would be no lawsuit from Oklahoma and Nebraska,” Pruitt said in a written statement.

If you really like that idea, why not suggest it for your own state?



The real problem seems to be less legal sales of Colorado marijuana and more what appear to be illegal sales of potent new strains of cannabis grown in both licensed and unlicensed facilities and in the state’s vast wilderness areas.

That's still illegal in Colorado, so the suit wants to shut down the parts that are legal?



And this gem from the Narcotics Bureau:

As (OBN spokesman) Woodward noted, some of the most potent marijuana is being grown in Colorado — so much so that pot is now being smuggled from the U.S. into Mexico.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 21, 2014, 02:52:11 pm
Guido,

Please recall that Oklahomans sued Oklahoma over the constitutionality of the anti gay legislation. Colorado didn't.

Additionally, we aren't arguing that Oklahomans have an equal protection argument to not have pot sold to Colorado citizens in Colorado.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on December 21, 2014, 08:56:17 pm
Thousands of people are petitioning Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt and Nebraska Attorney General Jon Bruning, asking them to withdraw the lawsuit.
http://kfor.com/2014/12/20/new-petition-asks-oklahoma-attorney-general-to-withdraw-lawsuit-against-colorado/



Wallace Collins, the chairman of the Oklahoma Democratic Party, issued the following statement regarding Pruitt’s involvement with the lawsuit:

    “It is astounding that Mr. Pruitt didn’t even realize that the Republican bill passed by his colleagues last week contains language that prohibits the US Department of Justice from interfering with state marijuana laws. It is ironic that Mr. Pruitt is the crusader against frivolous lawsuits, but he personally files a significant number of them. Also, I though Mr. Pruitt campaigned on home rule and local control, but he is the first to fight local control and home rule. Did the pharmaceutical industry write this lawsuit for him?”

When speaking about the pharmaceutical industry, Collins is referring to a recent controversy involving Pruitt and his alleged ties with energy companies
( http://kfor.com/2014/12/08/i-was-stunned-ny-times-article-blasts-oklahoma-attorney-general-accuses-him-of-secret-alliance ).



https://www.change.org/p/scott-pruitt-withdraw-the-lawsuit-against-colorado-s-marijuana-legalization-laws

I’m personally convinced Pruitt has bigger political ambitions and he’s padding his resume as an arch conservative the Tea Party would love to run.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 21, 2014, 10:31:13 pm
I know. But enough about Obama....


That sounds like what I heard kids say in third grade...  "I know you are, but what am I...?"


Come on, guido, I know you can do better than that!!


I am curious about one thing - from the legal view - do you or your friends feel like Pruitt has been an asset to the state from an AG standpoint?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on December 22, 2014, 12:10:08 am
I’m personally convinced Pruitt has bigger political ambitions and he’s padding his resume as an arch conservative the Tea Party would love to run.

I could easily be convinced to vote against him.
 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on December 22, 2014, 01:52:32 pm
The number's don't support the claim. QUICK over lunch style math, it seems like Oklahoma had an adaquate supply of pot before. Given that is was an unregulated "black" market, that stands to reason. But nonetheless...

In 2001 (last year data is published by the DOJ) 19,125 POUNDS of marijuana were confiscated "on Oklahoma's highways."  Presumably, a multiplier of that amount was confiscated not on highways. Shall we say 30,000 pounds to be conservative?
http://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs2/2286/marijuan.htm

At the border, the US Border Patrol estimates they manage to confiscate at most 20% of the drugs people try to smuggle across (many estimates say 5-10%). I'm guessing we do a little worse than military-grade-check-point when it gets into Oklahoma.  But sure, lets say we catch 1/5th of the marijuana coming in. That mean's there is 150,000 pounds of marijuana a year in Oklahoma.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/30/18589533-experts-say-drug-mules-are-easy-to-find-hard-to-catch?lite

About 10% of the population in Oklahoma considers themselves a regular user. That's 380,000 people.
http://www.statemaster.com/country/OK-oklahoma/hea-health

So, (30000 * 5 * 16)/380000 = OZ per user.

Or 6.3 OZ of weed per user per year. Or about an eighth of an ounce per week per user. Which is TWICE the estimate of the "average" user according to some book from Cambridge...
https://books.google.com/books?id=lCbenVFNlzkC&pg=PA155&lpg=PA155&dq=average+marijuana+consumption+per+user&source=bl&ots=mbiIPA8HeV&sig=xvtaWC9gekD0BEpI9LvBbCcFgQg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=x3CYVLagDIiMyATRxIKgAw&ved=0CFoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=average%20marijuana%20consumption%20per%20user&f=false

In Colorado, they found that average user consume .6 grams per day. Which would pretty much put my numbers of marijuana in Oklahoma on par with demand/use in Oklahoma prior to Colorado legalizing marijuana (to be fair, Colorado's use stats come out to ~7oz per user.  I'm assuming pot heads in Colorado can show us up, on average).
https://www.colorado.gov/pacific/sites/default/files/Market%20Size%20and%20Demand%20Study,%20July%209,%202014%5B1%5D.pdf
- - - -

One top of that, they destroyed 8000 outdoor plants and some indoor plants. Do you think they got half? Pretending they did that's 16,000 total plants in Oklahoma - at ~2 pounds of product per plant that's ANOTHER 32,000 pounds of marijuana that likely didn't have to risk being transported as far.
- - -

ECONOMICS doesn't support the claim either -

IN Denver, an ounce of marijuana regualrily sells for $250 an ounce + 21% tax = $302:
https://www.coloradopotguide.com/colorado-marijuana-blog/2014/may/28/marijuana-prices-dropping-in-denver/
priceofweed.com

The DOJ says commercial-grade marijuana sells in Tulsa for $120 to $250 an ounce (trying to look at comparable grades):
http://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs2/2286/marijuan.htm
priceofweed.com

So why take the extra risk of illegal sales, trafficking, and reselling a product when any gain that is had is marginal at best, and likely non-existent on the originator's side?


Sure, it's possible and even likely that some people are exploiting Colorado's law to bring home some pot.  It is also possible that some people are using it to smuggle in hundreds of pounds - but I can't see that as a significant factor int he tens of thousands of pounds grown and consumed in Oklahoma on an annual basis.

and I simply don't buy the argument that Oklahoma HAD to sue Colorado to support Federalism. I assume that argument is a joke. "Look Colorado, we are going to sue you to overturn your law and try to make the Federal government force you to enforce their law which is contrary to your law because neither you nor the Federal government want that to happen, so we assume this will all work out when the Court orders the Federal government to enforce their law by making Colorado have its police and troopers enforce it for them. K Thx Bai, Oklahoma"





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 28, 2014, 05:29:37 pm
and I simply don't buy the argument that Oklahoma HAD to sue Colorado to support Federalism. I assume that argument is a joke. "Look Colorado, we are going to sue you to overturn your law and try to make the Federal government force you to enforce their law which is contrary to your law because neither you nor the Federal government want that to happen, so we assume this will all work out when the Court orders the Federal government to enforce their law by making Colorado have its police and troopers enforce it for them. K Thx Bai, Oklahoma"


On the "Casinos will have first legal pot in Oklahoma" front:

FLAGSTAFF, Ariz. — The Navajo Nation had bitter debates when it was deciding whether to allow casinos on the reservation and if alcohol should be sold in them. The arguments focused on the revenue and jobs casinos and liquor could bring to a reservation where half the workforce is unemployed and most arrests and pervasive social ills are linked to alcohol abuse.

When the federal government announced this month that it would allow American Indian tribes to grow and sell marijuana, the same divisive discussions resurfaced. The tribal president's office talked of expanding crops to include pot for medicinal but not recreational use, while a tribal lawmaker quickly declared his opposition.

http://www.fox23.com/ap/ap/business/tribes-tread-carefully-into-marijuana-discussions/njYb9/



...and the "Feds are tired of the BS WOD" front:

New medical pot law sign of federal progress
http://www.pressherald.com/2014/12/24/our-view-new-medical-pot-law-sign-of-federal-progress

By barring the use of federal funds to prosecute patients and suppliers, Congress resolves a regulatory disconnect.

Congress recently gave an early Christmas present to residents of 33 states where medical marijuana is legal: Buried in the massive 2015 federal spending bill is a provision that bars the Justice Department from using federal funds to prosecute patients and suppliers who are complying with state regulations.

The measure expires when the spending bill does, in October. And it doesn’t make cannabis – in any form – legal under federal law. But by allowing those who need medical marijuana to use it without fear they’ll be targeted by the federal government, lawmakers have taken a small but significant step toward resolving a regulatory disconnect and making ordinary Americans’ lives easier.

In a little over four years, the Justice Department under President Obama has brought almost as many medical marijuana cases as the agency brought in eight years under President George W. Bush.
A Maine medical marijuana patient lights a joint to treat pain from surgery Oct. 9, 2012. In a little over four years, the Justice Department under President Obama has brought almost as many medical marijuana cases as the agency brought in eight years under President George W. Bush.    

In 1996, California passed the nation’s first medical marijuana law. In 1999, medical marijuana was legalized in Maine; retail dispensaries for the drug became legal here in 2009. That same year, Attorney General Eric Holder announced that the Justice Department would go after medical marijuana providers only if they violated both state and federal statutes.

That pledge, however, doesn’t seem to have stopped federal officials from zealously pursuing users and suppliers of medical cannabis. In a little over four years, the Obama administration brought 153 medical marijuana cases – compared to 163 cases in all eight years of the George W. Bush administration, the anti-marijuana prohibition group NORML reported in 2013. The U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration and several U.S. attorneys have raided hundreds of dispensaries that were following state laws. Over 335 defendants (mostly in California) have been charged with federal crimes; 158 have been sentenced to a combined 480 years in prison.

The price tag for the raids, arrests, investigations, prosecutions, incarceration and probation? Around $300 million and rising, according to the medical marijuana patient advocacy group Safe Access Now.

Though a growing number of Americans have become fed up at this level of overkill, it’s taken years to see change. Congress repeatedly rejected proposals to codify Holder’s hands-off policy into federal law. Ending the federal ban on medical marijuana has required the endorsement of pro-states’ rights Republicans like Dana Rohrabacher, who joined forces with another California congressman, Democrat Sam Farr, to craft the medical cannabis language that was approved Dec. 11.

A lot of work remains to be done at the federal level. The limits on the Justice Department’s pursuit of medical marijuana cases have an expiration date of Sept. 30, 2015. What’s more, the federal DEA still classifies marijuana as a Schedule I drug: a substance more dangerous than cocaine, with no known benefits and a “high capacity for abuse.” Long-lasting reform will entail passage of H.R. 689, which would reclassify marijuana for medical use and increase therapeutic research.

But the recently approved legislation represents progress. Sick people and their caregivers shouldn’t be in law enforcement’s crosshairs for engaging in activity that their state has recognized as legal – and it’s encouraging that federal policymakers have finally recognized this.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on January 06, 2015, 12:56:25 pm
GOP Lawmakers Critical of Oklahoma's Marijuana Lawsuit

(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201402/Mike_Ritze.jpg)

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gop-lawmakers-critical-oklahomas-marijuana-lawsuit (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gop-lawmakers-critical-oklahomas-marijuana-lawsuit)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — Several Republican Oklahoma legislators are criticizing Attorney General Scott Pruitt for his decision to join Nebraska in a lawsuit against Colorado over that state's legalization of marijuana.

A group of seven GOP legislators wrote to Pruitt, also a Republican, voicing their concern over the lawsuit asking the U.S. Supreme Court to declare Colorado's legalization of marijuana unconstitutional.

Broken Arrow Republican Rep. Mike Ritze says his concern is not about marijuana, but about the right of states to "govern themselves as they see fit."

But Pruitt maintains he's a states' rights advocate and that his lawsuit against Colorado only challenges the portions of the law that could allow for the drug to be trafficked into Oklahoma.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on January 06, 2015, 01:17:01 pm
States should be allowed to pass their own laws and govern their own people. But I reserve the right to spend a bunch of taxpayer money fighting another state if such a fight allows me to hire a bunch of my lawyer friends and score some cheap political points.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 06, 2015, 01:55:01 pm
States should be allowed to pass their own laws and govern their own people. But I reserve the right to spend a bunch of taxpayer money fighting another state if such a fight allows me to hire a bunch of my lawyer friends and score some cheap political points.


Bruning and Pruitt’s crusade against Colorado’s marijuana laws conflicts with their ostensible support of states’ rights.
As attorney general of Oklahoma, Pruitt has led the next major challenge to the act, insisting that the federal government must respect states’ decisions not to set up their own exchanges and to deny their citizens cheap access to good insurance.

But when another state decides to experiment with a new drug policy, Bruning and Pruitt’s support for state sovereignty dries up. They are arguing that Congress’s prohibition against marijuana should force every state to prohibit it as well.

These attorneys general aren’t opposed to all intoxicants.
Their position on marijuana might have something to do with the fact that both Bruning and  Pruitt have received significant campaign contributions from alcohol industries.
   http://www.followthemoney.org/entity-details?eid=6583668

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/12/oklahoma_and_nebraska_sue_colorado_a_hypocritical_lawsuit_could_undermine.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 10, 2015, 01:51:02 pm
Maria Rabadan has one last request, on behalf of her seriously ill son, for outgoing Gov. Pat Quinn — issue the licenses that will allow medical marijuana to be grown and sold in Illinois.

Rabadan’s 9-year-old son, Jancarlo, suffers from a rare form of epilepsy, and the family wants to use a form of non-smokeable medical marijuana known to help children who suffer from seizures.

“He has the power in his hands,” the emotional Mount Prospect mom said of the governor. “We ask that he has compassion for the kids.”

But as Quinn prepares to leave office, his administration hasn’t announced who will be granted the coveted medical marijuana business licenses. State officials blew their own deadline of issuing the limited licenses before the end of 2014. Medical marijuana is legal in Illinois for adults and children who suffer from specific conditions, but until the licenses are awarded, it can’t be grown, sold or used.

Traditional prescription medicines haven’t worked and Rabadan and her husband hope to one day give Jancarlo a product know as CBD, short for cannabidiol, a compound in cannabis that, unlike the well-known THC, does not make people feel stoned. Families with kids like Jancarlo  have moved to Colorado just to be able to use the product because for some families, it helps.


http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/7/71/280084/mom-quinn-get-medical-marijuana-program-rolling


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 10, 2015, 06:17:56 pm
GOP Lawmakers Critical of Oklahoma's Marijuana Lawsuit
(http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net/p/kwgs/files/styles/card_280/public/201402/Mike_Ritze.jpg)
http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gop-lawmakers-critical-oklahomas-marijuana-lawsuit (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/gop-lawmakers-critical-oklahomas-marijuana-lawsuit)


Our AG, like our Governor, is for sale:

Energy Firms in Secretive Alliance With Attorney General Pruitt
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/07/us/politics/energy-firms-in-secretive-alliance-with-attorneys-general.html




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 01, 2015, 11:14:58 am
Amazing how much the nation's attitude shifted. 


Five Months After Decriminalizing Marijuana, Here's What's Happened in Philadelphia
http://mic.com/articles/109466/five-months-after-decriminalizing-marijuana-here-s-what-s-happened-in-philadelphia


Rand Paul Calls Out Jeb Bush's Marijuana "Hypocrisy," And He's Not Wrong
http://www.bustle.com/articles/61681-rand-paul-calls-out-jeb-bushs-marijuana-hypocrisy-and-hes-not-wrong




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 01, 2015, 08:59:45 pm
Amazing how much the nation's attitude shifted. 


Five Months After Decriminalizing Marijuana, Here's What's Happened in Philadelphia
http://mic.com/articles/109466/five-months-after-decriminalizing-marijuana-here-s-what-s-happened-in-philadelphia


Rand Paul Calls Out Jeb Bush's Marijuana "Hypocrisy," And He's Not Wrong
http://www.bustle.com/articles/61681-rand-paul-calls-out-jeb-bushs-marijuana-hypocrisy-and-hes-not-wrong





It's all about the money and connections.  Just like here, as in Judge Kurt Glassco and Tim Harris' office.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 11, 2015, 09:11:41 pm
Colorado Brings in $44 Million In Taxes On First Year Of Marijuana Sales

Fears about potential negative effects of legalized recreational marijuana seem to have been exaggerated at the announcement Colorado’s final haul in tax revenue after it’s first fiscal year of sales: $44 million.

The news of Colorado’s final tax revenue total is just the latest to show that, despite any claims to the contrary, the effects of legalization thus far are positive.   
Just two days ago, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration released a study showing that unlike those who drink and drive, people who drive stoned are no more likely to crash than those who drive sober.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/02/09/stoned-drivers-are-a-lot-safer-than-drunk-ones-new-federal-data-show/


That study came on the same day that CNBC reported that legalized marijuana has contributed to taking away power from Mexican drug cartels  http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/09/legal-marijuana-drug-cartels/
and making the U.S. – Mexican border safer, as the total number of homicides in Mexico have dropped from 22,852 in 2011 to 15,649 in 2014.  And just one week ago in an interview with CBS “This Morning”, U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek Murthy stated that medical marijuana works as a legitimate medicine.  http://dailycaller.com/2015/02/04/u-s-surgeon-general-confirms-that-medical-marijuana-works/



http://www.dailycaller.com/2015/02/11/colorado-brings-in-44-million-in-taxes-on-first-year-of-marijuana-sales/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 22, 2015, 10:58:08 am
Feds Move to Decriminalize Marijuana

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/02/20/marijuana-legalization-congress_n_6722686.html

Two congressmen filed separate House bills on Friday that together would legalize, regulate and tax marijuana at the federal level, effectively ending the U.S. government's decades long prohibition of the plant.




And a big step for Alaska:
http://www.mercurynews.com/nation-world/ci_27587135/recreational-marijuana-becomes-legal-alaska


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 03, 2015, 01:27:26 pm
In Texas, a conservative lawmaker filed a bill to completely deregulate marijuana in the Lone Star State Monday, proposing to strike any mention of the psychoactive plant from state law.

"Everything that God made is good, even marijuana" said state Rep. David Simpson, R-Longview, who filed the bill. "The conservative thought is that government doesn't need to fix something that God made good."

In his column, Simpson reflected on his Republican beliefs in small government and individual liberties, and he invoked biblical verse to explain his initiative to repeal marijuana prohibition.

http://www.chron.com/news/article/Texas-lawmaker-files-bill-to-legalize-marijuana-6111922.php





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 03, 2015, 02:30:59 pm

"The conservative thought is that government doesn't need to fix something that God made good."

In his column, Simpson reflected on his Republican beliefs in small government and individual liberties, and he invoked biblical verse to explain his initiative to repeal marijuana prohibition.



Makes one wonder why so few Republicans actually "practice what they preach" on small government and individual liberties.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 05, 2015, 06:47:21 pm
Makes one wonder why so few Republicans actually "practice what they preach" on small government and individual liberties.

I think a lot of sheriffs still believe for some strange reason that law enforcement can control marijuana, and it’s pretty obvious after being an officer for 40 years and after more than 50 years of a miserably failed drug war that it doesn’t work.

-- San Miguel (Telluride) County Sheriff Bill Masters

http://www.thecannabist.co/2015/03/05/telluride-sheriff-bill-masters-san-miguel-county-pot-lawsuit/31214/










Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on March 05, 2015, 06:55:33 pm
Poor old guy...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/06/heavily-armed-drug-cops-raid-retirees-garden-seize-okra-plants/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on March 05, 2015, 07:57:36 pm
Poor old guy...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/10/06/heavily-armed-drug-cops-raid-retirees-garden-seize-okra-plants/


Like the guy said...okra has 5 leaves, pot has 7.  Shame the cops can't count... so we're taking what?  4rd grade graduates??  Naw...all the 3rd graders I know can count to way more than 10 !!

But they ARE sorry!  They said so!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on March 06, 2015, 02:55:51 pm
148,000 pounds: The amount of marijuana legally sold in Colorado in 2014, the first full year that recreational marijuana has been legal in the state.

4.82 million: The number of marijuana-infused edibles sold in Colorado.

15,992: The number of people licensed to work in the pot business in Colorado.

143%: The increase in marijuana employment licenses since recreational marijuana was legalized in Colorado.

2,251: The total number of licensed marijuana businesses in Colorado.

$76 million: Total collected by Colorado from marijuana-related taxes and fees

Seems like a win to me.  (And no telling how much they didn't put into the prison system.)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on March 06, 2015, 04:44:25 pm

Seems like a win to me.  (And no telling how much they didn't put into the prison system.)


And that will be what'll stop it here in Oklahoma.

Once federal legalizes pot, how many lawsuits do you guys think Oklahoma will file?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on March 06, 2015, 07:21:51 pm
148,000 pounds: The amount of marijuana legally sold in Colorado in 2014, the first full year that recreational marijuana has been legal in the state.

4.82 million: The number of marijuana-infused edibles sold in Colorado.

15,992: The number of people licensed to work in the pot business in Colorado.

143%: The increase in marijuana employment licenses since recreational marijuana was legalized in Colorado.

2,251: The total number of licensed marijuana businesses in Colorado.

$76 million: Total collected by Colorado from marijuana-related taxes and fees

Seems like a win to me.  (And no telling how much they didn't put into the prison system.)


Curious about the uptick in sales tax from fast food restaurants and retailers of Little Debbie snack cakes.


Title: Re:
Post by: Ed W on March 07, 2015, 02:02:04 pm
On another tack, imagine the furor if one of the tribes goes into the marijuana bidness.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 07, 2015, 06:18:27 pm

Like the guy said...okra has 5 leaves, pot has 7.  Shame the cops can't count... so we're taking what?  4rd grade graduates??  Naw...all the 3rd graders I know can count to way more than 10 !!
But they ARE sorry!  They said so!


Sounds like:

Man spends 3 months in jail for possession of vitamins.

http://www.mankatofreepress.com/news/local_news/drug-charges-dismissed-it-really-was-vitamins/article_5bd3b8b8-b3bb-11e4-a86c-939946b09d9e.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 03, 2015, 11:10:05 am
Look how close this vote was

The House rejected, by a vote of 210-213, a proposal Thursday to allow doctors at Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals to discuss the use of medical marijuana with patients.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/240731-house-rejects-allowing-va-doctors-to-recommend-medical-marijuana


Veterans -- still under the bus.  Meanwhile in Oklahoma, the Governess last week signed a bill into law that would allow the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics to oversee non-existent clinical studies on non-intoxicating CBD oil (successfully used to treat children with seizures).  Given the OBN is on record as wanting to see any uses of marijuana fail, dont expect much from this delaying tactic.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on May 04, 2015, 02:51:20 pm
Look how close this vote was

The House rejected, by a vote of 210-213, a proposal Thursday to allow doctors at Department of Veterans Affairs hospitals to discuss the use of medical marijuana with patients.

http://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/house/240731-house-rejects-allowing-va-doctors-to-recommend-medical-marijuana


Veterans -- still under the bus.  Meanwhile in Oklahoma, the Governess last week signed a bill into law that would allow the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics to oversee non-existent clinical studies on non-intoxicating CBD oil (successfully used to treat children with seizures).  Given the OBN is on record as wanting to see any uses of marijuana fail, dont expect much from this delaying tactic.


At least we are number 1 in something...!!!   It's just a crying shame it's not a good something.....


http://okpolicy.org/oklahoma-continues-lead-u-s-deepest-cuts-education



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 06, 2015, 07:17:31 pm
I guess our AG has to sue another neighboring state.



Texas House panel approves full legalization of marijuana

AUSTIN — In a surprise move that supporters hailed as a historic victory, the Texas House Criminal Jurisprudence Committee approved legislation Wednesday that would make it legal to buy and sell marijuana in the state.

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/texas/article/Texas-House-committee-approves-full-legalization-6247225.php


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on May 06, 2015, 08:50:09 pm
I guess our AG has to sue another neighboring state.



Texas House panel approves full legalization of marijuana

AUSTIN — In a surprise move that supporters hailed as a historic victory, the Texas House Criminal Jurisprudence Committee approved legislation Wednesday that would make it legal to buy and sell marijuana in the state.

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/texas/article/Texas-House-committee-approves-full-legalization-6247225.php

Don't think it's going anywhere very soon...but it is a little surprising...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 07, 2015, 11:21:39 am
Don't think it's going anywhere very soon...but it is a little surprising...

Bolder leadership than Gov. Mary Fallins "we'll think about considering the possibility of studying the idea of having the narcotics squad monitor any future talks about  experiments on a hypothetical select group of undefined medical patients, maybe," but since OBNDD is shifting more towards the sex trafficking business, maybe the writing is on the wall.   


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 16, 2015, 10:13:09 am

One of the biggest worries about legalized medical marijuana was that teenagers would smoke more pot, but it turns out those fears were wrong. A study just published in The Lancet Psychiatry showed no significant difference in adolescent marijuana use in the 21 states with medical marijuana laws.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/debraborchardt/2015/06/15/legalized-medical-marijuana-doesnt-increase-teen-usage/



So the sky is not falling.  OTOH, we could just keep the status quo.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln--police-pot-shop-raid-edibles-20150612-story.html

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTKTfUHfeKM[/youtube]


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 19, 2015, 05:07:00 pm
Delaware Gov. Jack Markell signed a bill Thursday that decriminalized marijuana use, and a host of ballot measures and legislative initiatives could push other states closer to decriminalization or legalization before the year is over.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-delaware-decriminalizes-marijuana-20150619-story.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 10, 2015, 09:51:43 am

Oklahomans who support medical marijuana gearing up for another petition drive
http://www.krmg.com/news/news/local/oklahomans-who-support-medical-marijuana-gearing-a/nmtmh/

The drive to amend the Oklahoma Constitution to allow medical marijuana failed last year, but organizers say they learned a lot, and they're ready to take another shot at it.

While the actual petition drive won't begin until some time in August, the effort to register voters so they can sign the petition has already begun, and if it goes anything like it did last year, voter roles in Oklahoma will increase significantly.

"Last year during the petition, we broke all the records for how many people were registered during our petition," Isaac Caviness of Green the Vote told KRMG. "We registered 40,000 people to vote last year."

He added that while gathering signatures, he noticed a lot of support from combat veterans, and one day, he stopped one of them to ask why.
"He said we volunteer to go fight for your freedom so you can be here doing what you're doing fighting for ours. I'm tired of seeing my brothers commit suicide when they come home."

Many medical marijuana advocates say the drug is highly effective for people with PTSD.

A SoonerPoll conducted in 2013 indicated that 71% of Oklahomans favor medical marijuana.
The same poll indicated 57% support for the decriminalization of marijuana used for recreational purposes.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on July 26, 2015, 02:03:47 pm
http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/the-harmful-effects.html   >>> Turns out one joint is like smoking 5 cigs, if M.J. did not alter the brain and get you high no one would use it, the only reason for M.J. is to get high. We have enough problems with alcohol and illegal drug use without adding many more people on our streets  with fried brains from legal M.J. use.  Some guy high on M.J. thought he could fly so he jumped off a building, he couldn't fly. Splat! :(


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 26, 2015, 02:11:47 pm
http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/the-harmful-effects.html   >>> Turns out one joint is like smoking 5 cigs, if M.J. did not alter the brain and get you high no one would use it, the only reason for M.J. is to get high. We have enough problems with alcohol and illegal drug use without adding many more people on our streets  with fried brains from legal M.J. use.  Some guy high on M.J. thought he could fly so he jumped off a building, he couldn't fly. Splat! :(

On the stinky cabbage's Netflix list:

(http://cdn8.openculture.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/reefer-madness.jpeg)

Oh wait, he'd actually have to have a TV newer than 10 years old.  My bad.

What an ultramaroon.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on July 26, 2015, 04:18:00 pm
Yes, everyone who smokes pot becomes this according to Uncle Kimchi......

(http://assets.hightimes.com/styles/large/s3/reefer-madness-02.jpg?itok=WXGTkuYj)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on July 26, 2015, 04:48:21 pm
Yes, everyone who smokes pot becomes this according to Uncle Kimchi......

(http://assets.hightimes.com/styles/large/s3/reefer-madness-02.jpg?itok=WXGTkuYj)

My thought has always been it's a naturally grown (well, some coaxing is involved) substance, much like tobacco.  You could argue that cocaine is, but it has to go through a lot of processing before it gets to the state in which you can snort it as a powder.  Apples and oranges.

Legalize it and tax the smile out of it.  But instead, the Oklahoma AG has seen fit, instead of watching what is going on in Colorado to see the outcome, to sue Colorado for whatever reason.

Pruitt isn't much better than Smoot.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 26, 2015, 06:00:27 pm
My thought has always been it's a naturally grown (well, some coaxing is involved) substance, much like tobacco.  You could argue that cocaine is, but it has to go through a lot of processing before it gets to the state in which you can snort it as a powder.  Apples and oranges.

Legalize it and tax the smile out of it.  But instead, the Oklahoma AG has seen fit, instead of watching what is going on in Colorado to see the outcome, to sue Colorado for whatever reason.

Pruitt isn't much better than Smoot.



Texas Officials Really, Really Want You To Know Sandra Bland Had Marijuana In Her System
But that really, really shouldn't matter.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-officials-really-really-want-you-to-know-sandra-bland-had-marijuana-in-her-system_55b14a0ce4b08f57d5d41d47




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 27, 2015, 08:44:33 am
http://www.drugfreeworld.org/drugfacts/marijuana/the-harmful-effects.html   >>> Turns out one joint is like smoking 5 cigs, if M.J. did not alter the brain and get you high no one would use it, the only reason for M.J. is to get high. We have enough problems with alcohol and illegal drug use without adding many more people on our streets  with fried brains from legal M.J. use.  Some guy high on M.J. thought he could fly so he jumped off a building, he couldn't fly. Splat! :(


Never in the history of the planet - all 4.5 billion years - has anyone smoking grass jumped off a building thinking they could fly. 

You are confusing a Mafia hit with the munchies!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on July 28, 2015, 06:37:39 pm
Quote

Texas Officials Really, Really Want You To Know Sandra Bland Had Marijuana In Her System
But that really, really shouldn't matter.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/texas-officials-really-really-want-you-to-know-sandra-bland-had-marijuana-in-her-system_55b14a0ce4b08f57d5d41d47




....but not so much on who smuggled it into their jail.






At a news conference discussing the preliminary findings of an autopsy following Bland's alleged suicide at the Waller County Jail in Texas last week, officials placed heavy emphasis on marijuana reported to be found in the young woman's system.

Why this emphasis? What does this have to do with widespread demands for accountability around the circumstances of her death? Are we expected to believe the not so subtle insinuation that marijuana use played a part?

How is this still happening? Take a sample of random people in any walk of life in this country at any given moment in time, and you are likely to find marijuana in the system of many of them.

Marijuana has gone mainstream. The majority of Americans want legalization. Four states and the District of Columbia have legal recreational marijuana for adults, and analysts are predicting as much as $11 billion in legal marijuana sales in the next five years. Retirees are skipping Boca for more cannabis-friendly locales to blaze through their golden years.

So, I am sorry, are we really having to hear lurid and cryptic suggestions about how Sandra Bland might have been a marijuana user? Is it not obvious that this is completely irrelevant and a distraction?

Neuroscientist and Columbia University professor, Carl Hart, expertly pointed out the "reefer madness" fallacy of using marijuana found in the toxicology reports for Trayvon Martin to justify his murder two years ago in the New York Times. The science is still the same. Only the name being smeared has changed.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sharda-sekaran/sandra-bland-marijuana-smear-is-another-cheap-trick-of-racist-drug-war_b_7866454.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 02, 2015, 07:24:09 pm

D.A.R.E. Published an Op-ed Calling for Marijuana Legalization
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/07/dare-calls-for-marijuana-legalization.html

They were high.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 07, 2015, 01:57:14 pm
Oklahoma City Republican Senator James Lankford wants to take away federal funds from tribes that exercise their right to grow marijuana.

"The Native American community experiences the highest drug induced death rate in the country," obviously referring to the rampant deaths of Indians from smoking marijuana.

http://newsok.com/lankford-aims-to-link-pot-tribes-funds/article/5438717

S.1948, the "Keeping out Illegal Drugs Act" of 2015 (KIDS), bars tribes that cultivate, manufacture or distribute marijuana from receiving federal funds.

Nothing says "Im here to help you" like a big dose of poverty.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 12, 2015, 09:42:43 pm
NYPD Busted Using 'COPS' Clip in Campaign Against 'Weaponized Marijuana'
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/nypd-busted-using-cops-clip-campaign-weaponized-marijuana


The New York Police Department faced criticism on Thursday after it emerged that video clips it used to show the crazed affects of smoking synthetic drugs were of men high on other drugs.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/08/06/us-new-york-police-marijuana-idUSKCN0QB2HW20150806


The NYPD confirmed on Thursday that the men in the videos, which were previously used in police training, were in fact high on other narcotics.

New York Police Chief of Patrol Carlos Gomez, at a press conference on Thursday, said the videos were meant to show drug users in an "excited delirium syndrome state" which is another made-up police term with no basis in medical science.

The NYPD is frequently deceitful, but rarely is it as hilariously so as it was yesterday, when Commissioner Bill Bratton, during a press conference about the perceived dangers of so-called "synthetic marijuana," showed video he said was of “out-of-state” officers arresting a man under the influence of the drug, but which was actually a dude on PCP pulled from a 2003 episode of COPS.

http://justice.gawker.com/nypd-footage-of-crazy-synthetic-weed-user-was-actually-1722366247



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 16, 2015, 05:33:55 pm
Man Who Was Serving Life In Prison For Marijuana To Be Set Free

Jeff Mizanskey, a 61-year-old Missouri man who was serving life in prison for nonviolent marijuana offenses, will be set free in a matter of days, his attorney confirmed Monday to The Huffington Post.

After two decades in prison, Mizanskey became eligible for parole in May when Missouri Gov. Jay Nixon commuted his life sentence. Parole was an option that Mizanskey did not have previously because he had been sentenced as a "prior and persistent drug offender" under Missouri's three strikes law, which was repealed last year.

All three of Mizanskey's offenses involved marijuana. He was given a life sentence after a conviction for attempting to sell about six pounds of pot in a 1993 police sting operation.

Marijuana offenses, mainly involving simple possession, account for roughly half of all drug-related crimes. According to a recent report from the American Civil Liberties Union, 88 percent of the more than 8 million marijuana arrests between 2001 and 2010 were for possession alone. There were more arrests in the U.S. for marijuana possession in 2011 than for all violent crimes combined, according to the FBI's uniform crime report.

While the U.S. accounts for just 5 percent of the world’s population, it is home to a full 25 percent of the world’s prisoners. Harsh sentences for nonviolent drug possession and distribution crimes are part of the reason that figure is so high. In 1980, there were roughly 40,000 drug offenders in federal and state prisons and jails, according to research from the Sentencing Project, a criminal justice reform group. By 2013, the number of drug offenders behind bars had ballooned to nearly 490,000 -- most of whom were not high-level operators and did not have prior criminal records.

It's difficult to calculate the human toll of all those incarcerations, some of them decades long. But by some national estimates, it costs state and local governments between $10 billion and $20 billion a year just to maintain the prohibition on marijuana.



http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/jeff-mizanskey-marijuana-parole_55c92395e4b0923c12bdf3ae



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 08, 2015, 12:43:01 pm
For the DEA head to be this clueless is nothing short of a scandal:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dea-medical-marijuana-fact-check_563d1148e4b0b24aee4a5c4f


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 09, 2015, 05:57:07 pm
For the DEA head to be this clueless is nothing short of a scandal:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dea-medical-marijuana-fact-check_563d1148e4b0b24aee4a5c4f


You cannot possibly be surprised...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on December 17, 2015, 01:05:26 pm
Obama administration to justices: Reject marijuana lawsuit

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-admin-urges-high-court-reject-marijuana-lawsuit-235240243.html (http://news.yahoo.com/obama-admin-urges-high-court-reject-marijuana-lawsuit-235240243.html)

Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) — Despite its opposition to making marijuana use legal, the Obama administration is urging the Supreme Court to reject a lawsuit from Nebraska and Oklahoma that seeks to declare Colorado's pot legalization unconstitutional.

The Justice Department's top courtroom lawyer said in a brief filed Wednesday that the interstate dispute over a measure approved by Colorado voters in 2012 does not belong at the high court.

Nebraska and Oklahoma filed their lawsuit directly with the Supreme Court in December 2014, arguing that Colorado's law allowing recreational marijuana use by adults runs afoul of federal anti-drug laws. States can sue each other in the Supreme Court, a rare instance in which the justices are not hearing appeals of lower court rulings.

The two states complained that Colorado's action has hindered efforts to enforce anti-marijuana laws in their states. They say combatting marijuana that's coming across the border is a drain on their resources.

But Solicitor General Donald Verrilli Jr. said Nebraska and Oklahoma are not alleging that Colorado "has directed or authorized" anyone to transport marijuana across state lines.

"At most, they have alleged that third-party lawbreakers are inflicting those injuries, and that Colorado's legal regime makes it easier for them to do so," Verrilli wrote. Taking up the dispute "would represent a substantial and unwarranted expansion of this court's original jurisdiction."

Verrilli's brief also notes that Colorado only allows people to possess one ounce or less of marijuana. Such small quantities carried across the border don't cause the states "to suffer great loss or any serious injury in terms of law-enforcement funding or other expenditures," Verrilli wrote.

The Obama administration "steadfastly opposes legalization of marijuana," The White House says on its website. But the administration also has said that it would not stand in the way of states that want to legalize, tax and regulate marijuana as long as there are effective controls to keep marijuana away from kids, the black market and federal property. The Justice Department says it simply doesn't have the resources to police all violations of federal marijuana law, and so it will focus on those priorities.

The Drug Policy Alliance, a group that advocates for less restrictive drug laws, praised the administration's move.

"Nebraska and Oklahoma's primary problems are their own punitive policies regarding marijuana use and possession," said Art Way, the group's Colorado state director. "It is not Colorado's fault these states look to spend such a high degree of law enforcement and judicial resources on marijuana prohibition."


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 17, 2015, 01:22:33 pm
For the DEA head to be this clueless is nothing short of a scandal:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dea-medical-marijuana-fact-check_563d1148e4b0b24aee4a5c4f


Further look at the guy shows he is a leftover from the Bush years - council to Ashcroft and Mueller.  Participants in the premise that torture is legal...remember the good ole days..?


http://www.dea.gov/about/leadership.shtml




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 18, 2015, 08:09:44 pm
The guys collecting petition signatures have been at 21st & Harvard all week, in the QT parking lot.

I didnt know there was also a petition to allow Oklahoma to get back to allowing industrial hemp (like clothing etc.) again.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 22, 2015, 01:38:12 pm
This is essentially the end of Oklahoma's lawsuit against Colorado (as far as the SCOTUS is concerned)
http://www.care2.com/causes/the-u-s-goverment-comes-to-colorados-defense-in-legal-pot-lawsuit.html

but lets see how much more tax money the AG throws at it anyway:
http://newsok.com/oklahoma-attorney-general-scott-pruitt-says-obama-administration-wrong-about-colorado-pot-laws/article/5468088

that sure sounds like he's actually suing Obama.   ::)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on January 08, 2016, 12:42:03 pm
Fear not!  AG Pruitt is on the case!

Oklahoma AG Goes to Court to Stop Colorado Pot

http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-ag-goes-court-stop-colorado-pot (http://publicradiotulsa.org/post/oklahoma-ag-goes-court-stop-colorado-pot)

Quote
OKLAHOMA CITY (AP)” Oklahoma's attorney general says his state and others are suffering from the export of marijuana from Colorado and wants the U.S. Supreme Court to consider whether Colorado's pot market violates federal law.

Attorney General Scott Pruitt filed a brief Wednesday in the case in which Oklahoma and Nebraska want the nation's highest court to declare Colorado's pot legalization unconstitutional.

The U.S. Department of Justice has argued that Colorado isn't directly responsible for third-party lawbreakers who traffic marijuana and that there's not sufficient reason for the high court to consider the challenge.

Pruitt claims Colorado has created a "massive criminal enterprise" and is actively facilitating the purchase of marijuana by residents of neighboring states.

Pruitt blames President Barack Obama's administration for not enforcing federal drug laws.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 08, 2016, 02:40:06 pm

"Pruitt blames President Barack Obama's administration for  (fill in the blank)"



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 10, 2016, 02:13:53 pm
Exploding Marijuana killing so many people we cant count.

http://www.alternet.org/drugs/dabs-comes-east-coast-media-freaks-out


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 11, 2016, 08:45:14 am
All of this reminds me of my ongoing fight with my kid over his video game habit. No video games until homework is done, plays video games, dad adds filter, kid gets around it, dad adds a firewall, kid crashes firewall, dad takes computer...

But at the end of the day, I know why I have the rule. Without the rule my child will not get his homework done. So the cycle continues.

Uncle Sam keeps treating citizens like children. In opposition to what one might expect, the more "small government" conservative the politician, the more lip service you get to "protecting" the children from themselves and the less likely they are to sit back and examine the underlying rule. All they know is that there is a rule, and some of those pesky little bastards aren't following it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 11, 2016, 01:18:53 pm
Uncle Sam keeps treating citizens like children. In opposition to what one might expect, the more "small government" conservative the politician, the more lip service you get to "protecting" the children from themselves and the less likely they are to sit back and examine the underlying rule. All they know is that there is a rule, and some of those pesky little bastards aren't following it.

All prohibition really protects is the industry created to wage an endless, expensive war we were never intended to win.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on January 11, 2016, 04:47:32 pm
All of this reminds me of my ongoing fight with my kid over his video game habit. No video games until homework is done, plays video games, dad adds filter, kid gets around it, dad adds a firewall, kid crashes firewall, dad takes computer...

But at the end of the day, I know why I have the rule. Without the rule my child will not get his homework done. So the cycle continues.

Uncle Sam keeps treating citizens like children. In opposition to what one might expect, the more "small government" conservative the politician, the more lip service you get to "protecting" the children from themselves and the less likely they are to sit back and examine the underlying rule. All they know is that there is a rule, and some of those pesky little bastards aren't following it.

Give Uncle Sam back his computer.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 22, 2016, 01:15:53 pm
Three of the four marijuana-centered lawsuits filed against Colorado officials and businesses were organized and at least partially funded by out-of-state anti-drug organizations and socially conservative law firms, a Denver Post analysis shows.

Supporters of the law that made the recreational use and sale of marijuana legal in Colorado say the money gives outsized influence to secretive coalitions of drug-rehab professionals, for-profit prison owners and others with a financial stake in keeping pot illegal.


http://www.denverpost.com/marijuana/ci_29391588/who-exactly-is-behind-lawsuits-over-colorados-legal



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 22, 2016, 03:17:31 pm
I still think its great that Oklahoma is suing Colorado claiming that Colorado has to do what the Federal Government tells it to do and can't change Colorado law. Ignoring the misinterpretation of the Supremacy Clause (Federal law definitely still trumps Colorado law, but there isn't an affirmative constitutional right to prevent other people from smoking pot... that's backwards), the basic argument completely undermines every failed (or failing) lawsuit Pruitt has brought to assert Oklahoma's dominance against Uncle Sam.   

Pruitt:  "Hey, you can't do that! We have State's rights and the law of Oklahoma controls above all others!"

Courts:  "The State of Oklahoma is an inseparable part of the Federal Union, and the Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land."

Pruitt:  "BS! Where did you come up with that?"

Courts: "Article 1, Section 1, Oklahoma Constitution (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=84802)."


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on January 24, 2016, 09:37:57 pm
I still think its great that Oklahoma is suing Colorado claiming that Colorado has to do what the Federal Government tells it to do and can't change Colorado law. Ignoring the misinterpretation of the Supremacy Clause (Federal law definitely still trumps Colorado law, but there isn't an affirmative constitutional right to prevent other people from smoking pot... that's backwards), the basic argument completely undermines every failed (or failing) lawsuit Pruitt has brought to assert Oklahoma's dominance against Uncle Sam.   

Pruitt:  "Hey, you can't do that! We have State's rights and the law of Oklahoma controls above all others!"

Courts:  "The State of Oklahoma is an inseparable part of the Federal Union, and the Constitution of the United States is the supreme law of the land."

Pruitt:  "BS! Where did you come up with that?"

Courts: "Article 1, Section 1, Oklahoma Constitution (http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=84802)."




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dormant_Commerce_Clause


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 25, 2016, 08:29:22 am
The dormant commerce clause is a restriction on states hindering trade in other states - it is a free trade requirement. Oklahoma can't put tariffs on Texas goods. It prevents protectionism among the states (or localities therein).

Quote from: The Supreme Court
The central rationale for the rule against discrimination is to prohibit state or municipal laws whose object is local economic protectionism, laws that would excite those jealousies and retaliatory measures the Constitution was designed to prevent.

So our argument is that Colorado making pot legal is unfairly burdening the Oklahoma pot industry? Is our concern that Colorado is requiring Colorado grown pot and discriminating against Oklahoma's black market product? We could probably fix that fairly easily...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on January 25, 2016, 11:00:42 am
The dormant commerce clause is a restriction on states hindering trade in other states - it is a free trade requirement. Oklahoma can't put tariffs on Texas goods. It prevents protectionism among the states (or localities therein).

So our argument is that Colorado making pot legal is unfairly burdening the Oklahoma pot industry? Is our concern that Colorado is requiring Colorado grown pot and discriminating against Oklahoma's black market product? We could probably fix that fairly easily...

At one time marijuana was Oklahoma's #2 cash crop.  Not sure who keeps tabs now, or how politically driven the numbers might be.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 25, 2016, 12:19:29 pm
At one time marijuana was Oklahoma's #2 cash crop.  Not sure who keeps tabs now, or how politically driven the numbers might be.

Now that legalization is a remote possibility, the powers that be probably want to keep the word "cash" out to not remind people of lost opportunity, want to diminish the word "crop" to disassociate with agriculture, and probably don't want to point how how big the industry could be overall...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 14, 2016, 06:46:12 pm
Now that legalization is a remote possibility, the powers that be probably want to keep the word "cash" out to not remind people of lost opportunity, want to diminish the word "crop" to disassociate with agriculture, and probably don't want to point how how big the industry could be overall...


Why Elizabeth Warren thinks legalizing marijuana could help end America’s opioid addiction crisis


Sen. Elizabeth Warren wants the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to explore the use of medical marijuana as an alternative to the powerful opioid painkillers that kill thousands of people each year.
In a letter to CDC chief Tom Friedan, the Massachusetts Democrat also asks the agency to look into “the impact of the legalization of medical and recreational marijuana on opioid overdose deaths.”

From a public health standpoint, Warren is right. There is a lot of potential here. Here’s a rundown of what the research has shown so far:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/13/why-elizabeth-warren-thinks-legalizing-marijuana-could-help-end-americas-opioid-addiction-crisis




Cops are biggest obstacle to Cannabis oil


Law enforcement officials across Georgia are proving to be the biggest obstacle to a bill that would allow medical cannabis oil to be manufactured and distributed in the state.
“From what we hear, law enforcement is our biggest opponent,” Katie Harrison told The Times last month. Harrison is a Hall County resident who treats her young son with cannabis oil to treat his seizure disorders.
There appear to be enough votes in the House to pass the bill, but pushback from Georgia sheriffs and district attorneys have raised alarm bells in the Senate, as well as in the administration of Gov. Nathan Deal.

Lawmakers approved the use of cannabis oil last year to treat eight medical conditions. The drug is known to have anti-anxiety effects, among other beneficial properties, and strains lack the levels of the psychoactive ingredient THC that gets marijuana smokers high.
But with no manufacturing and distribution of the drug within Georgia, some patients have been forced to break federal law by acquiring the drug out of state and transporting it back, according to advocates.

Advocates also want to expand the list of approved medical conditions that can be treated with the drug.

Medical marijuana was a $1.3 billion industry in California in 2014. And in Colorado, medical and recreational marijuana sales reached nearly $1 billion last year, a 42 percent increase.
Advocates note that sales generated about $135 million in taxes and fees for state and local government coffers to support public safety and education programs.

Many law enforcement officials believe the bill being debated this year in the state legislature would set Georgia on an irreversible path to the emergence of a recreational, big business marijuana industry.
“You’re talking about big money coming into the state,” Hall County Sheriff Gerald Couch said. “It won’t stop there.”

Gainesville Police Chief Carol Martin said it’s important for residents to understand just what the bill promises.
“To dispel rumors, the proposed bill does not allow the general public to cultivate marijuana for recreational use,” she said.

Advocates say strict limits on the number of manufacturers, coupled with guidelines and monitoring for distribution, means no form of marijuana will be available for smoking under the proposed legislation.

Reps. Carl Rogers, Emory Dunahoo and Lee Hawkins, all Gainesville Republicans, said they support the bill.
Rogers said he believes restricting cultivation to one or two sites at the University of Georgia or the Medical College of Georgia will alleviate concerns.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on March 21, 2016, 12:59:50 pm
SCOTUS declined to hear the Oklahoma/Nebraska pot lawsuit against Colorado.

Money and time well spent.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 21, 2016, 02:11:10 pm
There were two dissenting voices... but the dissents were not based on the merits of the case, rather procedural. Ailto and Thomas feel that the Court may not have the authority to refuse to hear a case if Original Jurisdiction is triggered. The majority has long disagreed with this interpretation, which would require the US Supreme Court to hear any and all petitions filed by one state against another. The fear is that the Court becomes a forum for interstate litigation as opposed to a Constitutional Court.

My opinion on that doesn't matter, I just wanted to point out that even the two dissenters did not grant the merit of the case. The other 6 Justices didn't even think it was worth hearing it or writing an opinion.

The dissent:
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/15pdf/144orig_6479.pdf

Pruitt is gaining fame as the most litigious Attorney general in the United States:

http://www.governing.com/topics/politics/gov-oklahoma-scott-pruit-feature.html

Lets see...

- 10 Commandments case, lost twice, filed for reconsideration after the Supreme Court rules, lost again

- Gay marriage, part of the large case that saw gay marriage legalized nationwide (thanks for that)

- Water rights against Texas, Texas gained the right to actually claim water inside the State of Oklahoma

- ObamaCare challenges, lost those

- numerous tort reform measures thrown out as he defended them

- much of the workers comp reform has been thrown out as he defended them

- three or four losses in suits against the EPA (https://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/2014/06/12/court-losses-wont-deter-attorney-general-scott-pruitt-in-his-fight-with-the-epa/)

- Chicken litter lawsuit against Arkansas

- And now his lawsuit against Colorado (which have garnered him the label "fair weather Federalist." Which is a nice way of saying hypocrite).


Millions on frivolous lawsuits, not a penny for education!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on March 21, 2016, 06:32:36 pm

Pruitt is gaining fame as the most litigious Attorney general in the United States



In addition to wasting taxpayer dollars, the Oklahoma and Nebraska attorneys general are betraying their conservative belief of states’ rights and, if successful, they could have unintended consequences that could harm many conservative policies, such as gun rights. For instance, both Colorado and Oregon require background checks for the private sale of firearms, while Oklahoma doesn’t require any background check on private gun sales while Nebraska doesn’t require a background check on the private sale of long guns. Does Oklahoma and Nebraska want other states to challenge their gun laws, arguing that unlicensed sales easily allow guns to get into the hands of those federally prohibited from legally possessing guns, such as felons and domestic abusers? This is a slippery slope that the attorneys general in Oklahoma and Nebraska need to consider.

http://marijuanapolitics.com/supreme-court-refuses-hear-suit-colorado-nebraska-oklahoma-save-taxpayer-dollars/





"Congress has no power to compel states to prohibit the cultivation, possession and transfer of marijuana," according to Randy Barnett, an attorney who litigated a Supreme Court case exploring the limits of the CSA. "In the absence of such state prohibition, all such activities are completely legal under state law, notwithstanding that they are illegal under federal law," he wrote last year.

In short, Congress can say that marijuana is illegal at the federal level. But if a state doesn't want to enforce that prohibition itself, it doesn't have to do so. And if it wants to go one step further and set up a market to regulate the trade in the drug, it's free to do that as well.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/03/21/what-todays-supreme-court-decision-means-for-the-future-of-legal-weed/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 12, 2016, 12:45:45 pm
66,000 signatures is well within the number collected the first two times.



Ex-Oklahoma legislator spearheads medical marijuana effort
http://www.koco.com/news/Ex-Oklahoma-legislator-spearheads-medical-marijuana-effort/38971658


A former Democratic state legislator who ran for governor in 2014 is spearheading an effort launched Monday to let voters decide whether to allow medical marijuana in Oklahoma.
    
Former state Rep. Joe Dorman is a board member of the group Oklahomans for Health, which filed an initiative petition with the secretary of state's office to begin gathering signatures to place the proposal on the ballot in November.
    
After a review of the petition is complete, the group will have 90 days to gather about 66,000 signatures from registered voters to get the proposal on the ballot.
    
Dorman said he was motivated in part by his experience working with cancer patients who benefited from using marijuana, but were unable to do so legally.
    
"I want to encourage people to keep an open mind about this proposal," said Dorman, a Democrat from Rush Springs who ran against Gov. Mary Fallin in 2014. "I certainly trust doctors and health care providers to offer the proper medication for treatment over bureaucrats and politicians."
    
In 2014, the same group fell short gathering the 155,000 signatures needed to amend the Oklahoma Constitution to allow for medicinal marijuana, but this time is seeking a statutory change that will require fewer signatures.

If approved by the voters, doctors would be able to recommend a patient at least 25 years old for a state-issued medical marijuana license that would allow them to use marijuana legally and possess up to 3 ounces, six mature plants and six seedlings. The Oklahoma State Department of Health would be responsible for overseeing the licensing of marijuana dispensaries, grow operations and patients.
    
The state tax on marijuana would be 7 percent, with revenues used to fund the regulation of the industry. Additional revenues would be divided with 75 percent going to the state's general revenue fund to pay for general operations and 25 percent earmarked for drug and alcohol rehabilitation.
        
The effort is likely to face resistance from some law enforcement agencies that view medicinal marijuana as a way to allow more access to pot by recreational users.
    
Mark Woodward, a spokesman for the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics and Dangerous Drugs, said his agency supports the use of non-intoxicating cannabis oils to treat certain conditions but believes full-blown medicinal marijuana sends the wrong signal to children who are encouraged not to use illegal drugs.
    
More:   https://oklahomansforhealth.com





Hey, Woodward, the whole point of legalization is to not make it illegal any more...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on April 12, 2016, 12:51:32 pm

If approved by the voters, doctors would be able to recommend a patient at least 25 years old for a state-issued medical marijuana license that would allow them to use marijuana legally and possess up to 3 ounces, six mature plants and six seedlings. The Oklahoma State Department of Health would be responsible for overseeing the licensing of marijuana dispensaries, grow operations and patients.
    

While anything is better than nothing...why 25?  The 19 year old with cancer can suck it?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 12, 2016, 01:17:21 pm
While anything is better than nothing...why 25?  The 19 year old with cancer can suck it?

It does seem strange. Presumably it is to keep the devil's weed off college campuses. There's aren't many < 25 year olds in dorms, and you couldn't deny them their prescription.  And, as we all know, without a prescription no one in college would use an illegal intoxicating substance.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: davideinstein on April 12, 2016, 03:49:07 pm
If anyone wants to make money on an obvious policy reversal then TRTC is a good stock.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on April 12, 2016, 06:51:50 pm
Now that legalization is a remote possibility, the powers that be probably want to keep the word "cash" out to not remind people of lost opportunity, want to diminish the word "crop" to disassociate with agriculture, and probably don't want to point how how big the industry could be overall...


What would a traffic stop be without the ability to say "I smell marijuana so now I can do anything I want" ?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 13, 2016, 09:14:43 am

What would a traffic stop be without the ability to say "I smell marijuana so now I can do anything I want" ?


I have spoken with several police officers, who I consider good friends, who have made this exact point. They'd be fine if pot was legal, they don't really see a danger and it usually isn't worth their time dealing with it. But it is an easy gateway to bust people for other things. Not all pot users are into more dangerous things, but almost everyone who is into more dangerous things is a pot user...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cynical on April 13, 2016, 06:06:40 pm
There's another reason law enforcement will resist legalization of marijuana that is related. Coming in from Arkansas this afternoon about 5:00 I passed two Rogers Co. Sheriff cars who had pulled over a nice red Mercedes and were busy conducting a search of the trunk. Assuming they find something there, the car is a nice prize.

I have spoken with several police officers, who I consider good friends, who have made this exact point. They'd be fine if pot was legal, they don't really see a danger and it usually isn't worth their time dealing with it. But it is an easy gateway to bust people for other things. Not all pot users are into more dangerous things, but almost everyone who is into more dangerous things is a pot user...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 14, 2016, 10:12:53 am
There's another reason law enforcement will resist legalization of marijuana that is related. Coming in from Arkansas this afternoon about 5:00 I passed two Rogers Co. Sheriff cars who had pulled over a nice red Mercedes and were busy conducting a search of the trunk. Assuming they find something there, the car is a nice prize.


All they have to do is find cash, and label it “possession of drug proceeds.”

http://www.cato.org/blog/oklahoma-sheriff-indicted-extortion-blames-civil-forfeiture-reformers


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on April 14, 2016, 11:06:14 am
All they have to do is find cash, and label it “possession of drug proceeds.”

http://www.cato.org/blog/oklahoma-sheriff-indicted-extortion-blames-civil-forfeiture-reformers

Smear a little bacon grease on the money so the dog will hit on it?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on April 14, 2016, 11:39:41 am
Smear a little bacon grease on the money so the dog will hit on it?

Just takes a hand signal...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 14, 2016, 08:46:18 pm
Just takes a hand signal...


"Just before the dog alerts, you can hear a change in the tone of the handler's voice. That's troubling. I don't know anything about this particular handler, but that's often an indication of a handler that's cuing a response." In other words, it's indicative of a handler instructing the dog to alert, not waiting to see whether the dog will alert.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/03/31/drug-search-trekies-stopped-searched-illinois_n_1364087.html

It can be any combination of hand or vocal cues.  Yes, drug dogs have "back doors" ;-)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on April 15, 2016, 08:27:46 am
This may come as a shock... but drug dogs aren't always that effective. Many are just "trick ponies" to be able to search more. Some have many more false positives than accurate finds. A study in Illinois found that drug dogs alerts only actually found drugs 27% of the time (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-06/news/ct-met-canine-officers-20110105_1_drug-sniffing-dogs-alex-rothacker-drug-dog).

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has ruled that as long as a dog has a piece of paper saying it is a certified drug dog, it is infallible. Even if the defense can prove that the department knew the dog had more false positives than actual finds (in training records), it doesn't matter. As long as the dog gives a signal known to its handler as a positive signal, there is probably cause for a search. There are plenty of videos of police working real hard to get their dog to give a cue and immediately rewarding a cue (before confirming a positive, teaching the dog false cues are as good as real ones).

So why in the hell would a department want a well trained dog? Just get one that hits on everything and you can search whatever you want. Some departments have a great method for tracking the success of their dogs in the field: if a dog has a positive find you record it, if a dog hits a false positive there is no procedure for logging it. PERFECTION!

(I should add I have NO knowledge of how well TPD or TCSO dogs do. Some departments have very tough standards, others...not so much)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 01, 2016, 01:40:25 pm
Walgreens, the largest drug retailing chain in the U.S. with more than 8,000 stores in all 50 states, is now tackling the subject of medical marijuana. Right above a recipe for “all natural fruit roll-ups” on Walgreens’ Tumblr is the headline: “What is medical marijuana?” And its tone is surprisingly sane and straightforward, especially for one of the largest pharmacies in the world.

Well its about time someone got serious about fruit roll-ups.
http://www.thecannabist.co/2016/04/28/walgreens-medical-marijuana/52931/







http://www.marketwatch.com/story/walgreens-wants-to-talk-weed-2016-04-29

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/walgreens-medical-marijuana_us_5724dcabe4b0f309baf107c7




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on May 01, 2016, 03:29:49 pm

Pretty sure when I was in Vegas in January, the Walgreen's on Fremont street had a big green cross outside.   

Of course, I couldn't verify marijuana sales, but that's what the green cross meant in Colorado when I was last there, it may mean something different in Las Vegas.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on May 01, 2016, 03:44:33 pm
The green cross is a European symbol indicating a pharmacy. Fremont Street has many international visitors.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 10, 2016, 02:16:00 pm
AAA Finds No Basis for Equating THC Blood Levels With Driver Impairment
http://reason.com/blog/2016/05/10/aaa-finds-no-basis-for-equating-thc-leve



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on May 27, 2016, 10:20:51 am
Decriminalization is winning the War on Drugs

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/05/26/federal-marijuana-smuggling-is-declining-in-the-era-of-legal-weed/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 05, 2016, 11:48:23 pm
One of the kids went to WA state last week and visited a marijuana store.  Sounded like a great adventure!!   I gotta come up with an excuse to get the boss to send me to WA !!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on June 06, 2016, 08:28:03 am
One of the kids went to WA state last week and visited a marijuana store.  Sounded like a great adventure!!   I gotta come up with an excuse to get the boss to send me to WA !!

Going to CO Thursday for a few days hiking and camping.   I'm going to have a look at the stores there as well.  Should be interesting.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 07, 2016, 12:33:30 pm
Going to CO Thursday for a few days hiking and camping.   I'm going to have a look at the stores there as well.  Should be interesting.

Be careful if you stand too close to a local.   If you are in an accident weeks after you get back to Oklahoma, metabolites could still be in your blood or hair and you might go to jail.  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on June 07, 2016, 02:05:25 pm
Be careful if you stand too close to a local.   If you are in an accident weeks after you get back to Oklahoma, metabolites could still be in your blood or hair and you might go to jail.  ;D

Or at the very least they will seize that brick of $100 bills under your seat.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on June 07, 2016, 02:45:14 pm
Or at the very least they will seize that brick of $100 bills under your seat.

Well I'm flying back, so I think it's the airport dogs I'll have to avoid...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on June 07, 2016, 03:17:28 pm
Well I'm flying back, so I think it's the airport dogs I'll have to avoid...



Be sure to tip your gloved TSA agent.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 08, 2016, 12:22:25 pm
Be sure to tip your gloved TSA agent.


Depends on the lubricating liquid they use....




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on June 08, 2016, 01:22:32 pm
Be sure to tip your gloved TSA agent.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/dc/e4/b6/dce4b626ed653f48c76209fb05768cde.jpg)

For any Archer fans out there...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 08, 2016, 05:19:39 pm
COLUMBUS - Gov. John Kasich signed a plan to legalize medical marijuana into law Wednesday, making Ohio the 25th state to approve its use.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/08/john-kasich-just-legalized-medical-marijuana-ohio-now-what/85499176/







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on June 12, 2016, 06:27:33 pm
This may come as a shock... but drug dogs aren't always that effective. Many are just "trick ponies" to be able to search more. Some have many more false positives than accurate finds. A study in Illinois found that drug dogs alerts only actually found drugs 27% of the time (http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-01-06/news/ct-met-canine-officers-20110105_1_drug-sniffing-dogs-alex-rothacker-drug-dog).

Unfortunately, the Supreme Court has ruled that as long as a dog has a piece of paper saying it is a certified drug dog, it is infallible. Even if the defense can prove that the department knew the dog had more false positives than actual finds (in training records), it doesn't matter. As long as the dog gives a signal known to its handler as a positive signal, there is probably cause for a search. There are plenty of videos of police working real hard to get their dog to give a cue and immediately rewarding a cue (before confirming a positive, teaching the dog false cues are as good as real ones).

So why in the hell would a department want a well trained dog? Just get one that hits on everything and you can search whatever you want. Some departments have a great method for tracking the success of their dogs in the field: if a dog has a positive find you record it, if a dog hits a false positive there is no procedure for logging it. PERFECTION!


A group calling themselves the Rocky Mountain High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area suggests the legalization of marijuana has made the drug more attractive for out-of-state smuggling. But one federal report says HIDTA are questionable.
The United States Sentencing Commission said in a recent report that national marijuana trafficking offenses have fallen since Colorado and Washington residents voted to legalize the drug in 2012.

The data conflicts with HIDTA's notion that marijuana trafficking from Colorado is an increasing problem. Its latest report says law enforcement agencies from surrounding states made 360 seizures of the drug in 2014 - compared to an average of 242 from 2009 to 2012. The 2014 seizures occurred in 36 states - with Kansas (37), Missouri (37), Illinois (31), Oklahoma (19) and Florida (19) the most common destinations.

"There are anti-marijuana officials in surrounding states who say they're spending more time trying to find marijuana, so it'd be no surprise if they are finding more," said Mason Tvert, a spokesman for the Marijuana Policy Project, the country's largest organization that focuses on marijuana policy reform. "But there's no actual evidence there are any changes. The evidence suggest there's been some decrease in illegal trafficking."


http://gazette.com/colorado-marijuana-increasingly-finding-its-way-to-florida/article/1578049


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 27, 2016, 02:56:47 pm
In addition to epilepsy, cannabinoids (or marijuana itself) have demonstrated positive effects on type 2 diabetes, ulcerative colitis, cancer, and more than a dozen other ailments.
These promising studies have given hope that the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) may reclassify marijuana sometime soon.

That time could be coming sooner than you think.

Sometime within the next couple of weeks, the U.S DEA is expected to rule on whether or not it will reschedule marijuana away from its current schedule 1 classification. If the regulatory agency were to reclassify marijuana as anything other than a schedule 1 substance, then medical marijuana would immediately become legal throughout the U.S., thus opening the door for medical marijuana businesses to prosper.


http://www.fool.com/investing/2016/06/25/arguably-the-most-important-marijuana-decision-eve.aspx



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 28, 2016, 09:55:22 am
It has been way too long a wait.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on July 30, 2016, 12:13:26 pm
It has been way too long a wait.

But never too late to stir up some last-minute hysteria.



Apparently some officials thought a home marijuana testing kit would be good for testing a municipal water supply.  They must have been high.

"That would be like if Cypress Hill’s tour bus drove off a cliff, rolled through a Willie Nelson concert, and capsized Rick Steves’ kayak before nose diving into the town well."

http://www.wired.com/2016/07/take-lot-thc-contaminate-water-supply





But field testing kits are notorious for leaning towards false positives:



A man’s love of doughnuts got him arrested, strip-searched and tossed in jail for 10 hours after officers mistook several crumbs of icing for crystal methamphetamine.
Dan Rushing, 64, said he’s now considering legal action after the fateful traffic stop.

When he pulled out his identification, Officer Riggs-Hopkins noticed his concealed firearm permit and asked for permission to search his car, according to the report.
“I didn’t have anything to hide,” he said in an interview with WFTV. Now “I’ll never let anyone search my car again.”

The officers found “in plain view a rock like substance on the floor board where his feet were. I recognized, through my 11 years of training and experience as a law enforcement officer, the substance to be some sort of narcotic.”

Riggs-Hopkins wrote in the report that police performed two field tests on the “rock like substance” and that it tested positive for narcotics both times.

http://kfor.com/2016/07/28/no-its-meth-cops-mistook-krispy-kreme-doughnut-crumbs-for-drugs-man-says/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on July 30, 2016, 01:03:06 pm
All that great training....wasted on that idiot.


But now I gotta a new supplier!!  Haven't been to Krispy Kreme in many years - now that they have drugs, I may have to go back!  I have been going to Dunkin' Donuts most recently and while extremely pleasant, I have gotten nothing more than a nice sugar buzz out of any of them!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 15, 2016, 12:11:21 pm
It seems the petition gathering went a lot smoother in Tulsa than OKC.


NORMAN, Okla. – Oklahoma City medical marijuana activist Anthony Kimble was arrested outside the Oklahoma City VA shortly after lunch Tuesday during a  signature-gathering event by activists petitioning to get a medical marijuana state question on the ballot in November. Witnesses described an Oklahoma City officer pulling up to the VA and immediately arresting Kimble while he stood on the sidewalk, a not particularly criminal activity.

Medical marijuana petitioner and Oklahomans for Health co-founder/co-chairman Frank Grove believes this to be nothing more than an escalation of the harassment and intimidation many medical marijuana petitioners have encountered during the past several months gathering signatures.

Frank, co-founder/co-chairman of Oklahomans for Health, an organization dedicated to putting a medical marijuana state question on the ballot, is the first to say how supportive many police officers have been of their First Amendment right to gather signatures, but notes that a continuous stream of harassment by a few officers is hindering their operations significantly. Frank spoke to Red Dirt Report about three instances of harassment in particular that stand out.

The first incident Frank mentioned was what happened at a permanent signature-gathering site that volunteers established in late June. This was a 24/7 site, set up NW Expressway and Meridian public easement, with petitioners gathering signatures from 6 a.m. to 2 a.m. every single day.

Tents were set up, along with solar panels for electronics, and the volunteers depended on the surrounding community for material support, which was provided. 

During the first 20 days of operations at the site, relations with the Oklahoma City police were agreeable, and the officers sided with the petitioners and the First Amendment if an issue ever arose.

This all changed after 20 days, when a deputy called William Jones, one of the organizers working at the site, and informed him that the petitioners would face massive fines if they didn’t leave. The deputy also made it clear that other signature-gathering sites would experience an increase in harassment if the petitioners didn’t pack up and leave.

That same day, employees of the state placed signs at the site that indicated a curfew was now in place, and an officer was sent to take pictures of signers, volunteers, as well as their license plates and the inside of cars owned by the petitioners. This clearly had the intimidation effect that the police were looking for, with petition-signers being almost too fearful to get out of their vehicle and approach the petitioners.

The same officer returned the next day to inform the petitioners that he was just doing his job, which implied that he was carrying out orders from higher-up to intimidate petitioners for engaging in a peaceful, First Amendment-protected activity.

The second incident occurred at the OKC courthouse. A volunteer, sitting on a bench with a sign and clipboard, was approached by an Oklahoma County sheriff who was quoted as saying that he “was tired of stoners thinking you can do whatever you want,” and immediately threatened the volunteer with arrest for trespassing.

The sheriff then brought three more officers to surround the volunteer when the volunteer didn’t back down. Chad Moody, known as “The Drug Lawyer,” a vocal proponent of marijuana legalization and an Oklahoma City-based attorney, witnessed the entire incident.

Moody called for a meeting with the District Attorney and determined that the sheriff’s actions were unconstitutional. Despite that outcome, Frank notes that they lost almost an entire day of signature-gathering, precious time considering the short, 90-day window they have to gather signatures.

The third incident occurred on a public easement in Moore, where city code enforcers harassed petitioners during the last week of July. The enforcers demanded that the volunteers first get a permit before setting up operations.

The volunteers did obtain a permit to satisfy the enforcers, but Moore city councilman Adam Webb discovered what had happened and was angered that the volunteers were shut down illegally. Webb signed the petition and made the enforcers apologize to the volunteers in person for violating their First Amendment rights.

Frank, a Tulsa native who holds a master’s degree in computer science from the University of Tulsa, is undaunted by the intimidation. He believes that the OKC metro supports medical marijuana legalization by a wide margin, as well as most police officers.

He also understands that the short, 90-day window to gather signatures means that he doesn’t have time to fret about police intimidation. The goal is to reach the necessary number of signatures by Aug. 11.  Sheriffs and city officials might be an annoyance to someone like Frank, but they’ll never become an insurmountable obstacle for someone as passionate as he is about getting medical marijuana in the hands of Oklahomans whose lives may depend on it.


http://www.reddirtreport.com/prairie-opinions/pharmaceutical-companies-police-unions-private-prisons-wage-well-funded-campaign





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 15, 2016, 12:37:50 pm
Just sooooo much ignorance in this state!   Just the way Mary Failin' and her Crony Clown Show want it.  And are pushing it....





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on August 15, 2016, 06:51:45 pm
Just sooooo much ignorance in this state!   Just the way Mary Failin' and her Crony Clown Show want it.  And are pushing it....


Our union lackey DA wants to keep simple marijuana posession a felony.  Why so far behind the times?  Because a full jail is a proffitable one?


Tulsa County DA opposes state questions on justice reform
http://www.tulsaworld.com/homepagelatest/tulsa-county-da-opposes-state-questions-on-justice-reform/article_53c9ee69-03ab-56d4-b1e7-cbdec74f2fe3.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 17, 2016, 09:29:09 am
https://sfbay.ca/2016/08/16/court-protects-medical-pot-users-from-prosecution/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 24, 2016, 08:50:30 am
An initiative petition to let Oklahomans vote on whether to legalize marijuana for medicinal purposes has enough signatures to potentially get on the ballot, Oklahoma Secretary of State Chris Benge announced Tuesday.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-medical-marijuana-petition-gets-enough-signatures-to-be-examined-for-ballot/article/5515108


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on August 24, 2016, 09:47:38 am
I heard this on KRMG this morning. The host was laughing at it because in California the most common diagnosis for marijuana Rx is "depression or anxiety." I wondered if he laughs at the ~40,000,000 Americans on other prescription medication for anxiety or depression. Or the tens of millions more who go home and drink every day, or, for that matter, smoke up while it is still illegal.

Not that marijuana is a cure-all, but neither is Zoloft. Or...

Asendin (amoxapine)

Aventyl HCI (nortriptyline)

Brintellix (vortioxetine)

Celexa (citalopram)

Cymbalta (duloxetine)

Desyrel (trazodone)

Effexor XR (venlafaxine)

Emsam (selegiline)

Etrafon (perphenazine and amitriptyline)

Elavil (amitriptyline)

Endep (amitriptyline)

Fetzima (levomilnacipran)

Khedezla (desvenlafaxine)

Latuda (lurasidone)

Lamictal (lamotrigine)

Lexapro (escitalopram)

Limbitrol (amitriptyline and chlordiazepoxide)

Marplan (isocarboxazid)

Nardil (phenelzine)

Norpramin (desipramine)

Oleptro (trazodone)

Pamelor (nortriptyline)

Parnate (tranylcypromine)

Paxil (paroxetine)

Pexeva (paroxetine)

Prozac (fluoxetine)

Pristiq (desvenlafaxine)

Remeron (mirtazapine)

Sarafem (fluoxetine)

Seroquel XR (quetiapine)

Serzone (nefazodone)

Sinequan (doxepin)

Surmontil (trimipramine)

Symbyax (fluoxetine and the atypical antipsychotic drug olanzapine)

Tofranil (imipramine)

Triavil (perphenazine and amitriptyline)

Viibryd (vilazodone)

Vivactil (protriptyline)

Wellbutrin (bupropion)

Zyprexa (olanzapine)




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 24, 2016, 10:24:36 am
I heard this on KRMG this morning. The host was laughing at it because in California the most common diagnosis for marijuana Rx is "depression or anxiety." I wondered if he laughs at the ~40,000,000 Americans on other prescription medication for anxiety or depression. Or the tens of millions more who go home and drink every day, or, for that matter, smoke up while it is still illegal.

Not that marijuana is a cure-all, but neither is Zoloft. Or...




No he wouldn't laugh at them - the pharms and their addicts are a direct part of the corporate structure that supports and funds his right wing agenda nationwide.


It's KRMG....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on August 25, 2016, 11:02:34 am
The largest increase in suicides in America is white men over 50 to 64. Up 30% in the last decade. That's the first retirements of the Boomers. We get pushed out of our jobs, watch in amazement how the country suffers from the loss in wisdom and institutional learning, lose our friends and have difficulty in finding purpose. That's nearly 3.1% of the population checking out. The one thing left they can control. Higher risk of suicide than homicide. 1300 per 100,000 if memory serves (lose a fair amount of that too!) Strangely, there is a high correlation between the geographic altitude and the suicide rate. Its higher where they get high!

At any rate, if it helps you get through the day, make it legal.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 08, 2016, 02:37:39 pm
Who's kidding who, let's come clean and admit the real reason for medical MJ is to get a foot in the door to make all MJ legal for R&R use...  MJ is a gateway drug to harder stuff. We have enough screwy people around on our streets with the current crop of  illegal drugs, alcohol and the like, do we really want to add to that number by having legalized MJ. I never seen a group of people work so hard to make MJ legal for medical reasons as do the pro-MJ crowd. They don't work to make other banned drugs legal that may help in some diseases, they only care about MJ and focus on making MJ legal. Think about that. Some of the young people going around with pro- MJ petitions for voters to sign look like they are really concerned about the elderly and sick who need MJ. Sure. They have an agenda to push. I'm against making MJ legal for any reason. I will say a lot of our drug laws and money seizure laws are wrong and way out control we do need changes there.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 08, 2016, 02:45:25 pm
COLUMBUS - Gov. John Kasich signed a plan to legalize medical marijuana into law Wednesday, making Ohio the 25th state to approve its use.
http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2016/06/08/john-kasich-just-legalized-medical-marijuana-ohio-now-what/85499176/






Yep, and watch how long it takes till they start pushing to make MJ Legal for R&R use, they got one foot in the door. This will cause a lot abuse of MJ and prescriptions. In Colorado and other states that made MJ legal traffic death rates went up, and I'd bet work place accidents followed. I can just see some warehouse forklift driver who used MJ... In drug testing MJ can be detected in the body 6 weeks after it was last used, so if you have a job and get drug tested and used MJ in the last month your likely to come up + Glad I moved out of that crazy state.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 08, 2016, 02:51:32 pm
There's another reason law enforcement will resist legalization of marijuana that is related. Coming in from Arkansas this afternoon about 5:00 I passed two Rogers Co. Sheriff cars who had pulled over a nice red Mercedes and were busy conducting a search of the trunk. Assuming they find something there, the car is a nice prize.

Yep those seizure laws need changing, however things can be seized with or without any illegal drugs- a wad of cash is evidence  enough for seizure. People have been putting large sums of cash on those cards and that is why the OHP is scanning those cards to seize the money, and it's not only in Oklahoma other states use card scanners too.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on September 08, 2016, 04:06:38 pm
Who's kidding who, let's come clean and admit the real reason for medical MJ is to get a foot in the door to make all MJ legal for R&R use...  MJ is a gateway drug to harder stuff. We have enough screwy people around on our streets with the current crop of  illegal drugs, alcohol and the like, do we really want to add to that number by having legalized MJ. I never seen a group of people work so hard to make MJ legal for medical reasons as do the pro-MJ crowd. They don't work to make other banned drugs legal that may help in some diseases, they only care about MJ and focus on making MJ legal. Think about that. Some of the young people going around with pro- MJ petitions for voters to sign look like they are really concerned about the elderly and sick who need MJ. Sure. They have an agenda to push. I'm against making MJ legal for any reason. I will say a lot of our drug laws and money seizure laws are wrong and way out control we do need changes there.

Uncle Kimchi at it again...you must have been dropped on your head more than once when a baby.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 08, 2016, 05:02:59 pm
Who's kidding who, let's come clean and admit the real reason for medical MJ is to get a foot in the door to make all MJ legal for R&R use...  MJ is a gateway drug to harder stuff. We have enough screwy people around on our streets with the current crop of  illegal drugs, alcohol and the like, do we really want to add to that number by having legalized MJ. I never seen a group of people work so hard to make MJ legal for medical reasons as do the pro-MJ crowd. They don't work to make other banned drugs legal that may help in some diseases, they only care about MJ and focus on making MJ legal. Think about that. Some of the young people going around with pro- MJ petitions for voters to sign look like they are really concerned about the elderly and sick who need MJ. Sure. They have an agenda to push. I'm against making MJ legal for any reason. I will say a lot of our drug laws and money seizure laws are wrong and way out control we do need changes there.


And how many shots of whiskey did you do today?? 


Your wrongheadedness, along with the many hundreds of thousands of other Okies just like you, is the biggest single reason this state has slid so badly in all the "quality of life" issues facing the state.  You really should move elsewhere and take most of those other minions with you.  At long last, then this state may have a chance of emerging from the intellectually bankrupt mental dark ages we have been bogged down in for so long!


P.S.  This is mostly written for everyone else, since I know there isn't a glimmer of hope you will ever understand.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 08, 2016, 05:58:00 pm
Who's kidding who, let's come clean and admit the real reason for medical MJ is to get a foot in the door to make all MJ legal for R&R use...  MJ is a gateway drug to harder stuff. We have enough screwy people around on our streets with the current crop of  illegal drugs, alcohol and the like, do we really want to add to that number by having legalized MJ. I never seen a group of people work so hard to make MJ legal for medical reasons as do the pro-MJ crowd. They don't work to make other banned drugs legal that may help in some diseases, they only care about MJ and focus on making MJ legal. Think about that. Some of the young people going around with pro- MJ petitions for voters to sign look like they are really concerned about the elderly and sick who need MJ. Sure. They have an agenda to push. I'm against making MJ legal for any reason. I will say a lot of our drug laws and money seizure laws are wrong and way out control we do need changes there.

(http://www.viralthread.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/giphy-3-1.gif)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 08, 2016, 06:37:23 pm
That's great, dbacks....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 08, 2016, 06:47:51 pm
That's great, dbacks....


Been saving that one.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: godboko71 on September 08, 2016, 11:33:18 pm
Who's kidding who, let's come clean and admit the real reason for medical MJ is to get a foot in the door to make all MJ legal for R&R use... 

Just no...

http://www.news9.com/story/27371187/oklahoma-families-move-to-colorado-to-get-medical-marijuana-for-their-children

So helping children with seizures is the reason for medical marijuana. One of many reasons, none of which have to do with getting high.

MJ is a gateway drug to harder stuff.

Correlation does not imply causation.

(http://www.viralthread.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/giphy-3-1.gif)

Good one!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 09, 2016, 09:23:53 am
A friend of mine has endured chronic neck pain for years and has now had four surgeries.  As a result, he’s pretty much opiod-resistant and he has a flat out allergy to some common pain killers.  There are a lot of people like him who can benefit from pain mitigation with cannabis.  It’s a much safer alternative to traditional pain killers.  To my knowledge, I do not believe there is evidence of anyone dying from a pot overdose, unlike alcohol or opioids.  There is very good scientific evidence supporting the medical benefits of pot.

The main reason it is still being demonized is outright exaggerations and complete ignorance for political expediency and to protect the pharmaceutical cabal.

Legalizing it for recreational use doesn’t create any more of an environment for new users than alcohol being legal.  You can choose to partake or not.  One thing which is known is while there can be a mental dependency on pot, users do not develop physical dependency like they do on opiods or alcohol.

From an economic stand-point I’m willing to put money on it that busting and prosecuting users and petty dealers over the years has cost taxpayers billions, if not trillions. Bringing it out of the shadows and turning it into a taxable industry has provided opportunities for entrepreneurship, employment, and new tax revenue not unlike the boom in microbreweries yet no one thinks twice about all the extra beer floating around on the market.

Certainly there can be drawbacks, real or imagined:

http://fortune.com/pot-marijuana-colorado/

Even if it were legalized here, I would not partake for recreational purposes, I don’t feel the need.  If I did think I needed it for a medicinal purpose, I’d love to have that option available.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 10, 2016, 09:04:03 am

The main reason it is still being demonized is outright exaggerations and complete ignorance for political expediency and to protect the pharmaceutical cabal.


That, and the "I smell Marijuana" gateway.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 10, 2016, 10:29:00 am

And how many shots of whiskey did you do today??  


Your wrongheadedness, along with the many hundreds of thousands of other Okies just like you, is the biggest single reason this state has slid so badly in all the "quality of life" issues facing the state.  You really should move elsewhere and take most of those other minions with you.  At long last, then this state may have a chance of emerging from the intellectually bankrupt mental dark ages we have been bogged down in for so long!


P.S.  This is mostly written for everyone else, since I know there isn't a glimmer of hope you will ever understand.



I'm glad I left Ohio with legalized medical MJ Ohio  they got a foot in the door for making all  MJ legal for R&R use. Let's see how long it takes to make R&R MJ legal in Ohio. Intellectually having more people on the streets with altered or fried brains  is dumb. Think of the work place, fork lift drivers on MJ..  Don't we have enough problems with  illegal drugs, and alcohol  and they want to add to that number by making MJ legal. First it's medical MJ then with a foot in the door it's R&R MJ use. Much of the violence on our streets is the result of people high on some drug. MJ is a stepping stone to harder drugs. I'm against legalized MJ. The  "Quality Of Life" in Oklahoma and Tulsa is fine it's what you make of it. The RiverParks offers miles of jogging trails, the low cost of living, mild climate, shops & museums make Oklahoma a fine place to raise a family and live. BTW Oklahoma has some the cheapest gasoline prices in the nation.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on September 10, 2016, 10:45:25 am
We all know you have a point as you've made it repeatably. Please put your hat back on.

For those slow learners in the back of the classroom, let's review. Marijuana is a Schedule 1 drug just like heroin and cocaine. That means our government has decided - despite any evidence - it has no medical uses. Therefore, research on it is prohibited. The late unlamented Richard Nixon was responsible for this.

Anecdotes are not data, of course, but anecdotal experiences may be indicative of possible medical use. Without rescheduling we may never know.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 10, 2016, 01:02:46 pm
Stop making sense, Ed. Its upsetting to those whose realities are challenged without the use of weed.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on September 10, 2016, 07:44:43 pm
Most people learn through repetition. Well, that and having their noses rubbed in their mistakes. And most of us experience learning curves rather than learning flat lines.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 12, 2016, 11:28:00 am

Intellectually having more people on the streets with altered or fried brains  is dumb.


Think of the work place, fork lift drivers on MJ..  Don't we have enough problems with  illegal drugs, and alcohol  and they want to add to that number by making MJ legal. First it's medical MJ then with a foot in the door it's R&R MJ use. Much of the violence on our streets is the result of people high on some drug. MJ is a stepping stone to harder drugs. I'm against legalized MJ. The  "Quality Of Life" in Oklahoma and Tulsa is fine it's what you make of it. The RiverParks offers miles of jogging trails, the low cost of living, mild climate, shops & museums make Oklahoma a fine place to raise a family and live. BTW Oklahoma has some the cheapest gasoline prices in the nation.




So, stay off the streets!!


And as always, most of this is for others, since you appear to have such limited capability to grasp simple concepts....  Tobacco and alcohol are the biggest "stepping stone" - gateway drugs - to other drugs.  (I'm betting you are a smoker, too.)  National Institutes of Health says that people who use marijuana are most likely NOT to move on to harder drugs.  

Marijuana as Gateway Drug - The Myth that Will Not Die...  It is a gateway drug in exactly the same way that people move to harder drugs have also tried chocolate.  Or swallowed their own spit....  It is only the ignorant and feeble minded or companies who stand to lose billions from expensive drugs that really don't do what they should, or what we need, who won't investigate past the Faux News, RWRE, DuPont, and Richard Nixon intellectual cesspools, who still believe all that nonsense.  Which are you?  Drug company lackey??

As for your inane, trite, repetitious, and wrong comparative example.... well, geez.... Really??  You don't want marijuana users driving forklifts?  Why not?  Would they drive too slow for ya??  Typical Faux News garbage argument.  Watch some PBS and listen to some NPR!!  It might start a de-tox process of your system....  Nobody wants forklift drivers, or any other job related activity to be performed by an impaired person.  But yet, the incidence of impairment is vastly higher with alcohol and tobacco than ever has been or will be by marijuana users.  Think dangerous actions with alcohol, and massive losses in productivity by smokers (you have all seen and worked with the 2 - 3 hours per day 'smoke break' people...)

Violence - yep, MOST of it is drug related.  NONE of it by marijuana users - they are all way too mellow and smiley-faced (meaning "sh$t-eatin' grin!) to be violent.  It's ALL caused by the prohibition, which, as we have proven repeatedly, does NOT stop undesirable activity, but indeed increases it and creates opportunity for high profits and massive criminal organizations to thrive.  Which we see now, just as we saw with alcohol during it's prohibition term.

Conflating marijuana use with "Much of the violence on our streets is the result of people high on some drug" - your quote - is an ignorant, extremist, feeble attempt at an analogy.  Again, wrong.  


"BTW Oklahoma has some the cheapest gasoline prices in the nation."
Your quote.  And the nation as a whole has some of the cheapest gas prices in many years.  No thanks to Mary Failin'....




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 13, 2016, 03:45:53 pm
Ok- people on the streets or driving with scrambled brains is fine. It's great to be mellowed out on MJ. We don't have any alcohol or illegal drug problems. Why not legalize a brain scrambling drug. Never mind that MJ users go on to harder drugs. :-\


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 13, 2016, 04:55:00 pm


 Never mind that MJ users go on to harder drugs. :-\




You just can't help passing on the Faux News and vested interest lies, can you?   When you have been informed, yet choose to continue, that makes YOU a liar!  So, now we know exactly where you are coming from.  And gives a little more insight into the hollowness of past professions of faith of like minded people to yourself, since you are breaking at least 10% of the 10 Commandments...the one about bearing false witness.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 13, 2016, 05:20:09 pm
Ok- people on the streets or driving with scrambled brains is fine. It's great to be mellowed out on MJ. We don't have any alcohol or illegal drug problems. Why not legalize a brain scrambling drug. Never mind that MJ users go on to harder drugs. :-\

It's sad when a broken clock is right more than you are.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 13, 2016, 05:21:09 pm
I am much more likely to believe University of Pittsburgh Medical Center and Rutgers University over any anti-mj type uneducated, lying "hick from the sticks"....this means everyone in this state who keeps pushing the RWRE agenda of prohibition.  Not a study of benefits, just tracking to look for adverse items.  None occurred.   As it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be - no VALID reason for marijuana prohibition.


http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/09/13/findings-from-a-long-term-study-on-marijuana-use-u.aspx



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on September 14, 2016, 02:40:10 pm
Marijuana is the gateway to heroin in the same way that those who are known to drink water eventually die. It's the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. One event preceded the other, but that doesn't  mean the first event caused the subsequent one.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 14, 2016, 04:09:01 pm
Marijuana is the gateway to heroin in the same way that those who are known to drink water eventually die. It's the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. One event preceded the other, but that doesn't  mean the first event caused the subsequent one.

Its all because legalizing liquor legalized drunk driving.  Same logic.  >:(

I couldnt begin to count how many people are trying to get out from under the fog of their doctor-prescribed opioids in exchange for a non-intoxicating CBD extract.   Maybe its a reverse-gateway?

While were talking impaired, what was Attorney General Pruitt high on when he thought he could re-write the initiative petition by which the people of Oklahoma made their voices heard?   But hey, the ten commandments will be on the ballot for November.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on September 14, 2016, 04:37:42 pm
Marijuana is the gateway to heroin in the same way that those who are known to drink water eventually die. It's the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. One event preceded the other, but that doesn't  mean the first event caused the subsequent one.

Wow!  I can eat pickles again.  I read that everyone who ate pickles in 1843 has since died.  The logical conclusion was that pickles caused their death.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 14, 2016, 05:09:03 pm
Wow!  I can eat pickles again.  I read that everyone who ate pickles in 1843 has since died.  The logical conclusion was that pickles caused their death.


New study showed that swallowing saliva causes cancer!!

But only when swallowed in very small amounts over a very long time.....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 14, 2016, 09:17:27 pm
Wow!  I can eat pickles again.  I read that everyone who ate pickles in 1843 has since died.  The logical conclusion was that pickles caused their death.

The great pickle plague of 1843.  It was devastating.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 15, 2016, 08:59:14 am
Thus the phrase, "We're in a pickle."

Sauer, its not likely you'll see any more folks on the road, on the job or roaming the streets stoned after legalization. However, those who are will likely get ticketed, fired, or referred for rehabilitation rather than a wink and a nod. As a much younger man, I've been drunk and I've been stoned driving, at work and on the street. I was infinitely more dangerous and less productive when I was drunk.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on September 16, 2016, 04:37:54 am
The great pickle plague of 1843.  It was devastating.

You can have my pickle when you peel my cold, dead hands off of it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 16, 2016, 11:26:26 am
The great pickle plague of 1843.  It was devastating.
The plague (or was it the flu) of 1918 was worse some say 50 million died from it- That number seems kinda high for me, but that is what some people claim. The 1918 plague/flu was called a "Pandemic". If you got it, it was tuff to recover- most did not.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 16, 2016, 11:35:15 am
 You do provide some levity in a seriously strange time.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 16, 2016, 11:37:21 am
As for legalizing MJ no one will change anyones mind here, I am against medical MJ use which  leads to R&R MJ use. I have known people who were very ill with cancer, strokes and other diseases and they were given regular medication and it worked well. Another point that is not mentioned when it comes to MJ -but is serious refers to gun laws and CCW- people  under the influence of MJ or any drug/alcohol cannot have a gun in their possession, it's a federal law. Oklahoma's "Stand your ground law" does not apply if your "mellowed out" on MJ because your not of sound mind. That apartment security guard who shot a kid sitting in his car and crippled him and he latter died was reported to have MJ in his system, the names escape me. The argument that people should have the right to use MJ in the privacy of their home is fine if they would stay in the house for 48 hours when they get high but they don't they venture out on the street and even drive while still under the influence.. It is what it is.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: swake on September 16, 2016, 11:37:31 am
My nose is big, uh-uh I'm not ashamed
Big like a pickle, I'm still getting paid.....


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: sauerkraut on September 16, 2016, 11:38:27 am
You do provide some levity in a seriously strange time.

It's not levity the flu of 1918 was  real- it really happened.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 16, 2016, 11:39:54 am
Oh, Officer McPickle. I just wanna ride my motor-sickle.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 16, 2016, 12:02:03 pm
Oh, Officer McPickle. I just wanna ride my motor-sickle.

You are poking at a turd using a stick


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on September 16, 2016, 12:24:05 pm
You are poking at a turd using a stick

Just be sure to wear latex gloves.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: swake on September 16, 2016, 12:49:10 pm
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/13meiGqQruS1xK/200_s.gif)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 16, 2016, 12:59:27 pm
As for legalizing MJ no one will change anyones mind here, I am against medical MJ use which  leads to R&R MJ use. I have known people who were very ill with cancer, strokes and other diseases and they were given regular medication and it worked well.


Another point that is not mentioned when it comes to MJ -but is serious refers to gun laws and CCW- people  under the influence of MJ or any drug/alcohol cannot have a gun in their possession, it's a federal law. Oklahoma's "Stand your ground law" does not apply if your "mellowed out" on MJ because your not of sound mind. That apartment security guard who shot a kid sitting in his car and crippled him and he latter died was reported to have MJ in his system, the names escape me. The argument that people should have the right to use MJ in the privacy of their home is fine if they would stay in the house for 48 hours when they get high but they don't they venture out on the street and even drive while still under the influence.. It is what it is.



Now we know for a fact you are lying.  Once in each of the first two sentences.  Cancer in particular...the pain drugs currently used do NOT work well in WAY TOO MANY cases!!  Having had as many - if not more - friends and family as you with that affliction.  In fact, I would take it one step further and say that since you have advanced that particular fantasy, you have NOT known anyone who has had cancer!!



As for your specious (look it up, since you don't know the word) nonsense about CCW and gun laws....well, that also applies with alcohol.  No point to that comment whatsoever.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 16, 2016, 01:13:12 pm
The plague (or was it the flu) of 1918 was worse some say 50 million died from it- That number seems kinda high for me, but that is what some people claim. The 1918 plague/flu was called a "Pandemic". If you got it, it was tuff to recover- most did not.


It was influenza.  Another reason for you to unplug from Faux News once in a while.  There have been DNA tests done that have positively identified the disease.  As for numbers, well, I guess that is just another reason for you to try to explore the real world once in a while.  There is a range of numbers possible and that one is good as any other.


Had a grandmother who was young at the time and parents kept her inside in the apt over their store in Kansas City.  She would sit in the front window and watch funeral processions from the flu.  Sometimes several a day....



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on September 17, 2016, 01:14:41 am
Sauer, the other thing you are oblivious to, is that while states have made recreational use/possession legal, it doesn't change the testing policies, pre-employment screening, random testing, testing after an incident, and termination for being under the influence at work irrelevant. And on a personal note, the two people that I knew that have died from heroin overdoses in the last year, were not pot smokers, they were addicted to opioid based pain killers to begin with. Your thinking is so flawed and based on scare tactics that it's beyond laughable. There is truth about addiction and addictive personalities, but claiming that marijuana is a gateway drug is just not right, and based on fear mongering that probably started before your parents were born. Sadly the most addictive and lethal drugs have been prescribed by doctors and blindly filled by pharmacists since the end of WWII, just by people asking their doctor for them.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 17, 2016, 08:03:11 am
Gawd, I like that post. It shows you have some insight or experience with addictive personalities. The only purpose that Sauer serves is to elicit from people like you the correct responses, reinforce them to ourselves and try to educate others. Its a battle for our very survival in many ways.

Sauer, if there is a solid, unequivocal gateway drug that is also a clear indicator of addictive behavior its tobacco followed closely by alcohol.
Are you in favor of criminalizing their possession and use?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on September 17, 2016, 08:57:45 am
Your thinking is so flawed and based on scare tactics that it's beyond laughable. There is truth about addiction and addictive personalities, but claiming that marijuana is a gateway drug is just not right, and based on fear mongering that probably started before your parents were born.

He probably watched "Reefer Madness" a few too many times.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0028346/?ref_=nv_sr_2





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on September 17, 2016, 11:16:39 am
Sauer, the other thing you are oblivious to, is that while states have made recreational use/possession legal, it doesn't change the testing policies, pre-employment screening, random testing, testing after an incident, and termination for being under the influence at work irrelevant. And on a personal note, the two people that I knew that have died from heroin overdoses in the last year, were not pot smokers, they were addicted to opioid based pain killers to begin with. Your thinking is so flawed and based on scare tactics that it's beyond laughable. There is truth about addiction and addictive personalities, but claiming that marijuana is a gateway drug is just not right, and based on fear mongering that probably started before your parents were born. Sadly the most addictive and lethal drugs have been prescribed by doctors and blindly filled by pharmacists since the end of WWII, just by people asking their doctor for them.

One other thing I read is that in some studies done recently, it was shown that many people who were addicted to opioid pain medicines were able to get off that addiction once marijuana was used as a pain relief therapy as a replacement.

I know how addictive opioids can be.  I was taking oxycodone for a short time for a problem with my jaw that caused quite a bit of pain.  Doctor limited me to two refills and I found myself craving them a little after that.  Luckily that passed as I didn't pop them like Tic Tacs.  I can see, however, where there can be a physical addiction to them.  Once I realized I could mitigate the remaining pain with Naproxen (Aleve) I no longer craved it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 18, 2016, 01:48:26 pm
claiming that marijuana is a gateway drug is just not right, and based on fear mongering that probably started before your parents were born.

Ohmygawd I agree with dbacksfan.  :o



Even Faux News is giving in:

Making medical marijuana legal may lead to a reduction of opioid use in adults under the age of 40, a new study suggests.
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2016/09/16/medical-marijuana-programs-may-help-cut-opioid-use.html

The state's drug czar wants to make fighting opioid abuse a priority.  Ok, here's a plan...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 18, 2016, 02:03:56 pm
When I was in my early thirties, I had my wisdom teeth removed (some say I never recovered). They gave me such a strong drug to counteract the pain that I actually was unaware of long periods of time. A very pleasant feeling. Until I suddenly awakened on all fours perched over my 8 month old boy and I couldn't remember how or why I was there. These drugs are strong. To put marijuana in that class is hard to understand.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on September 18, 2016, 02:09:43 pm
When I was in my early thirties, I had my wisdom teeth removed (some say I never recovered). They gave me such a strong drug to counteract the pain that I actually was unaware of long periods of time. A very pleasant feeling. Until I suddenly awakened on all fours perched over my 8 month old boy and I couldn't remember how or why I was there. These drugs are strong. To put marijuana in that class is hard to understand.


When I had my wisdom teeth out they gave me a prescription for a drug named Mepergan Fortis.  It's evidently a combination opioid painkiller with an anti-nausea drug in it.  It made me feel similar to the oxycodone.  Meperidine is the narcotic in it.  Those opioid pain killers can be deadly.  They also have another side effect.  You stop doing your 'doody' on a regular basis.  Ugh.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Red Arrow on September 18, 2016, 09:13:39 pm
When I was in my early thirties, I had my wisdom teeth removed (some say I never recovered).

So that's what happened to you.

 ;D



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 19, 2016, 05:47:08 am
I should have sued for the loss of that wisdom but there's not much value in it I'm told. :D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 19, 2016, 08:38:40 am
Sauer, the other thing you are oblivious to, is that while states have made recreational use/possession legal, it doesn't change the testing policies, pre-employment screening, random testing, testing after an incident, and termination for being under the influence at work irrelevant. And on a personal note, the two people that I knew that have died from heroin overdoses in the last year, were not pot smokers, they were addicted to opioid based pain killers to begin with. Your thinking is so flawed and based on scare tactics that it's beyond laughable. There is truth about addiction and addictive personalities, but claiming that marijuana is a gateway drug is just not right, and based on fear mongering that probably started before your parents were born. Sadly the most addictive and lethal drugs have been prescribed by doctors and blindly filled by pharmacists since the end of WWII, just by people asking their doctor for them.


The history of this cluster goes back to the 30's.  Involves DuPont, cause they didn't want the competition to nylon rope.  Hearst empire, cause Randolph didn't want the pulp paper competition to all the forests he owned and wanted to cut down.  And many other factors.   Here is one of the better sources of information about the FUD spewed about the topic.  The information has been there a LONG time - again, goes to the idea/ideal of knowledge of history and perspective on said history... And the very dangerous lack of same we experience so much in this country!

https://www.amazon.com/Emperor-Wears-Clothes-Marijuana-Conspiracy/dp/1878125028


Wiki backgrounder...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Emperor_Wears_No_Clothes




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 19, 2016, 08:40:15 am
He probably watched "Reefer Madness" a few too many times.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0028346/?ref_=nv_sr_2






Cain't never watch Reefer Madness too many times!!  I's got the DVD!!  It's a classic!!





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 19, 2016, 08:43:11 am
When I had my wisdom teeth out they gave me a prescription for a drug named Mepergan Fortis.  It's evidently a combination opioid painkiller with an anti-nausea drug in it.  It made me feel similar to the oxycodone.  Meperidine is the narcotic in it.  Those opioid pain killers can be deadly.  They also have another side effect.  You stop doing your 'doody' on a regular basis.  Ugh.


Demerol.   Yeah...it's a good feeling until it's not...


For some reason my Dr. has been resistant to prescribing it for me...! 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 26, 2016, 02:18:07 pm
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/capitol_report/ag-scott-pruitt-defends-revisions-on-state-questions-that-some/article_2a9bb0cc-9c74-56b0-8d8a-791ab8d372fc.html

A.G.:  All Drugs Require Prescriptions

“They use the phrase in the marijuana petition ‘medicinal marijuana’,” (A.G. Scott) Pruitt said. “That is a label. When people hear medicinal marijuana, it creates the impression in their mind that means I access that drug like I access other drugs.

“You access other drugs through a prescription. Here, it doesn’t require a prescription. In fact, it is just a permit for two years.”

With a prescription, a doctor gives the patient a dosage with a duration and monitors usage, which is not the case with the wording on the petition as submitted, he said.

He said he doesn’t have an opinion on using marijuana for medical reasons.

“My job is to explain the effects of what is being proposed and put myself in the shoes of the citizen so they are properly informed about the consequences” of the issues they are voting on, Pruitt said.

David Slane is an Oklahoma City attorney representing Oklahomans for Health.

“It was clear from the totality of the way the ballot title was written that it would require a doctor’s authorization and a medical card,” Slane said. “For the attorney general to pretend like this was not for medical purposes is just not genuine.”


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 26, 2016, 03:31:39 pm
I may be too biased to effectively evaluate the issue, I dislike Pruitt and I think our current marijuana policy is an utter disaster. So here are the two prominent ballot questions for someone more objective to comment on:

Quote
This measure would remove Article 2, Section 5 of the Oklahoma Constitution, which prohibits the government from using public money or property for the direct or indirect benefit of any religion or religious institution. Article 2, Section 5 has been interpreted by the Oklahoma courts as requiring the removal of a Ten Commandments monument from the grounds of the State Capitol. If this measure repealing Article 2, Section 5 is passed, the government would still be required to comply with the Establishment Clause of the United States Constitution, which is a similar constitutional provision that prevents the government from endorsing a religion or becoming overly involved with religion.

Quote
This measure legalizes the licensed use, sale, and growth of marijuana in Oklahoma. There are no qualifying medical conditions identified. Possession and use of marijuana is authorized through a medical marijuana license that is valid for two years, rather than by prescription. An Oklahoma board certified physician must recommend the license using the same accepted standards for recommending other medications, and must sign the application for the license. The State Department of Health must issue a license to an applicant who:

submits a valid application,
is eighteen years or older, and
is an Oklahoma resident.
Applications for individuals under eighteen must be signed by two physicians and by a parent or legal guardian. The Department also issues seller, grower, packaging, transportation, research, and recycled paper caregiver licenses to those who meet certain minimal requirements. A 7 percent state tax is imposed on retail sales of marijuana. Unlicensed possession by an individual who claims to have a medical condition is punishable by a fine not exceeding $400. Local government cannot use zoning laws to prevent the opening of a retail marijuana store. This measure does not change federal law, which makes use, sale, and growth of marijuana illegal.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Ed W on September 26, 2016, 04:30:40 pm
State question haiku. Yes, I  know some aren't strictly formatted but I was rushed.

776

The death penalty
Never will be restricted
Awful idea. Vote no

777

Farming can ignore
Most of Oklahoma laws
Don't fall for this one

779

A sales tax increase
Bandaid for poor state planning
This is a bad idea

780

Conviction for drugs
Is much less draconian
Vote yes on this one

781

Cost savings return
To local communities
If 780 passes

790

US constitution
Supercedes this silly idea
Vote no for reason

792

Sensible booze law
What's not to love about this?
Vote yes on this one


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on September 27, 2016, 07:33:55 am
Well done!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on September 27, 2016, 09:06:34 am
State question haiku. Yes, I  know some aren't strictly formatted but I was rushed.

776

The death penalty
Never will be restricted
Awful idea. Vote no

777

Farming can ignore
Most of Oklahoma laws
Don't fall for this one

779

A sales tax increase
Bandaid for poor state planning
This is a bad idea

780

Conviction for drugs
Is much less draconian
Vote yes on this one

781

Cost savings return
To local communities
If 780 passes

790

US constitution
Supercedes this silly idea
Vote no for reason

792

Sensible booze law
What's not to love about this?
Vote yes on this one



Great minds think alike...!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 27, 2016, 11:16:38 am
State question haiku.

We should keep Ed around.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Townsend on September 27, 2016, 12:36:46 pm
That's outstanding Ed


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on September 27, 2016, 05:48:45 pm
Ed gives a positive connotation to ED. Good job.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on September 30, 2016, 10:14:23 am
So while Big Pharma uses its military muscle (DEA) to keep marijuana out of the hands of amateurs (until its ready to take over)...
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2016/09/28/marijuana-raids-pot-southern-colorado/

Congress to DEA:  "You're High"   http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/congress-kratom-dea-letter_us_57e93743e4b0e28b2b54fe36








Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 07, 2016, 10:22:36 am
Even in states with legal medical marijuana, the feds still throw money at local police to do stupid things:




AMHERST — All that remains of the solitary marijuana plant an 81-year-old grandmother had been growing behind her South Amherst home is a stump and a ragged hole in the ground.

Margaret Holcomb said she was growing the plant as medicine, a way to ease arthritis and glaucoma and help her sleep at night. Tucked away in a raspberry patch and separated by a fence from any neighbors, the plant was nearly ready for harvest when a military-style helicopter and police descended on Sept. 21.

In a joint raid, the Massachusetts National Guard and State Police entered her yard and cut down the solitary plant in what her son, Tim Holcomb, said was a “pretty shocking” action — one that he argues constitutes unlawful surveillance and illegal search and seizure.
Holcomb said he was at his mother’s home eating a late lunch with his sister when they heard whirring blades and looked up to see a military-style helicopter circling the property, with two men crouching in an open door and holding a device that he suspects was a thermal imager to detect marijuana plants.

Within 10 minutes of the helicopter departing, several vehicles arrived at the home, including a pickup truck with a bed filled with marijuana plants seized at
other locations, and several State Police troopers, including one who flashed his badge.
Holcomb said he was told that as long as he did not demand that a warrant be provided to enter the property or otherwise escalate the situation, authorities would file no criminal charges.


http://www.gazettenet.com/MarijuanaRaid-HG-100116-5074664



State police spokesman David Procopio said these operations were done under the auspices of the Drug Enforcement Administration's Cannabis Eradication Program, which gives state authorities money to uproot pot plants. Some lawmakers are questioning whether an $18 million federal program to pull pot plants makes sense.

Last year a member of an eradication team testified that a medical marijuana law could lead to an epidemic of stoned rabbits and other animals.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/10/07/drug-cops-raid-an-81-year-old-grandmothers-garden-to-take-out-a-single-marijuana-plant/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 07, 2016, 10:49:15 am
Isn't there a legal term for the offer they made not to prosecute?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on October 07, 2016, 01:56:24 pm
Even in states with legal medical marijuana, the feds still throw money at local police to do stupid things:




AMHERST — All that remains of the solitary marijuana plant an 81-year-old grandmother had been growing behind her South Amherst home is a stump and a ragged hole in the ground.

Margaret Holcomb said she was growing the plant as medicine, a way to ease arthritis and glaucoma and help her sleep at night. Tucked away in a raspberry patch and separated by a fence from any neighbors, the plant was nearly ready for harvest when a military-style helicopter and police descended on Sept. 21.

In a joint raid, the Massachusetts National Guard and State Police entered her yard and cut down the solitary plant in what her son, Tim Holcomb, said was a “pretty shocking” action — one that he argues constitutes unlawful surveillance and illegal search and seizure.
Holcomb said he was at his mother’s home eating a late lunch with his sister when they heard whirring blades and looked up to see a military-style helicopter circling the property, with two men crouching in an open door and holding a device that he suspects was a thermal imager to detect marijuana plants.

Within 10 minutes of the helicopter departing, several vehicles arrived at the home, including a pickup truck with a bed filled with marijuana plants seized at
other locations, and several State Police troopers, including one who flashed his badge.
Holcomb said he was told that as long as he did not demand that a warrant be provided to enter the property or otherwise escalate the situation, authorities would file no criminal charges.


http://www.gazettenet.com/MarijuanaRaid-HG-100116-5074664



State police spokesman David Procopio said these operations were done under the auspices of the Drug Enforcement Administration's Cannabis Eradication Program, which gives state authorities money to uproot pot plants. Some lawmakers are questioning whether an $18 million federal program to pull pot plants makes sense.

Last year a member of an eradication team testified that a medical marijuana law could lead to an epidemic of stoned rabbits and other animals.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/10/07/drug-cops-raid-an-81-year-old-grandmothers-garden-to-take-out-a-single-marijuana-plant/

So much for the Fourth Amendment...


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 07, 2016, 07:27:24 pm
Isn't there a legal term for the offer they made not to prosecute?

Conspiracy to deprive civil rights (federal offense).  Racketeering maybe, extortion? 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 07, 2016, 07:48:09 pm
Yes. Extortion. If I remember correctly, and that's not likely, it involves leveraging knowledge of an illegal act into a payoff of some sort. In this case, we won't prosecute your illegal act if you don't make us follow the law.

The other two I'm not sure but it sure sounds like extortion to me.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 08, 2016, 02:15:42 pm
Is all this marijuana talk making anybody hungry?


LA-based cannabis cook Jeff the 420 Chef also caters to this “high” end scene. He travels to individual homes and parties—celebrity parties, yacht parties, cannabis magazine parties—to cook up infused feasts. Kale salad, hazy Thai wings, and 420 Irish Cream (sans alcohol) are some of his favorites. He keeps the dose at around 10 milligrams per person (assuming you don't stuff yourself), which he says would have about as strong an effect as two glasses of wine.

(http://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentimage/37779/1474576301633549.jpg)

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/this-is-how-ultra-rich-stoners-get-baked-with-class


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: davideinstein on October 08, 2016, 10:57:48 pm
If anyone wants to invest, TRTC is a good ticker to follow for marijuana.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on October 10, 2016, 08:24:53 am
If anyone wants to invest, TRTC is a good ticker to follow for marijuana.

I invested in marijuana once, all my money went up in smoke.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 10, 2016, 08:31:07 am
Some investments are more personally satisfying than economically beneficial. And some are political statements. Either way, they serve some purpose other than money returns. Wouldn't you agree?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 10, 2016, 08:50:36 am
Is all this marijuana talk making anybody hungry?


LA-based cannabis cook Jeff the 420 Chef also caters to this “high” end scene. He travels to individual homes and parties—celebrity parties, yacht parties, cannabis magazine parties—to cook up infused feasts. Kale salad, hazy Thai wings, and 420 Irish Cream (sans alcohol) are some of his favorites. He keeps the dose at around 10 milligrams per person (assuming you don't stuff yourself), which he says would have about as strong an effect as two glasses of wine.



Oh, man....you got a mean streak!!   Now, I gotta go to LA...!!  Geez - I hate LA!!

Just had breakfast about 30 minutes ago, and that picture gave me the instant munchies!!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: davideinstein on October 10, 2016, 02:58:13 pm
Some investments are more personally satisfying than economically beneficial. And some are political statements. Either way, they serve some purpose other than money returns. Wouldn't you agree?

All about the bottom line to me unless it's a completely unethical company.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 10, 2016, 03:40:52 pm
All about the bottom line to me unless it's a completely unethical company.


No, it's not beat up on David day, but what about a half unethical company??



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 10, 2016, 04:46:24 pm
All about the bottom line to me unless it's a completely unethical company.

It was a clever rejoinder to Conan's post. I don't know poop about investing.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: davideinstein on October 10, 2016, 06:48:24 pm
It was a clever rejoinder to Conan's post. I don't know poop about investing.

I know a good amount of people that invest in only companies they believe in, etc. sorry for missing the joke.

Sigh.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 11, 2016, 04:54:08 pm
No need for sorry. It obviously wasn't that cute.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on October 11, 2016, 06:15:18 pm
No need for sorry. It obviously wasn't that cute.


FWIW, I got a good guffaw out of it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: AquaMan on October 11, 2016, 07:00:24 pm
Thank you, sir. I knew you would get it. ;)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 17, 2016, 02:05:09 pm
I invested in marijuana once, all my money went up in smoke.


When Oklahoma and Nebraska filed a lawsuit in 2015 against Colorado for legalizing marijuana, Kansas Attorney General Derek Schmidt wanted to see whether it was a problem before signing on.

He would need to prove that Kansas had suffered harm from Colorado marijuana to have a case.

But law enforcement was reporting fewer – not more – marijuana-related offenses. This was confusing to Schmidt, who said he’d heard from law enforcement that Colorado marijuana was king.

So he invoked a 19th-century law to survey law enforcement agencies. And he received a huge response: 390 law enforcement agencies and district attorneys painted the first large-scale picture of the impact of Colorado’s legalization on Kansas.


http://www.kansas.com/news/state/article107670032.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 15, 2016, 01:33:33 pm
With any luck, Oklahoma Attorney General Scott Pruitt will now be too busy suing Arkansas to further meddle in SQ 788 (Oklahoma Medical Marijuana Legalization Initiative).  If you remember, he re-worded the title of the approved petition at the last minute to make it appear that the initiative wasnt just for medical marijuana, effectively sabotaging its chances of being on the ballot last week.

“The people of Oklahoma have decided that we can no longer afford to fill our prisons with individuals suffering from addiction ... That strategy has been far too costly in dollars and in lives.”

Now what crazy liberal law-and-order-hating pansy said that?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/elections/political-notebook-gov-mary-fallin-wants-to-push-for-more/article_1e66e018-f149-5ea4-9446-7d079be169e9.html
Oh.  Lovers spat with the prison lobbyists?
How are we going to get DNA swabs from people arrested for felonies if you cant make everything a felony?




Marijuana reform went 8 for 9 on the 2016 ballot
Voters in California, Massachusetts and Nevada approved recreational marijuana initiatives Tuesday night, and several other states passed medical marijuana provisions, in what is turning out to be the biggest electoral victory for marijuana reform since 2012, when Colorado and Washington first approved the drug's recreational use.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/08/medical-marijuana-sails-to-victory-in-florida


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: RecycleMichael on November 15, 2016, 03:47:12 pm
I invested in marijuana once, all my money went up in smoke.

This is the POT I invested in.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=potash%20stock


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 15, 2016, 04:25:49 pm
This is the POT I invested in.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=potash%20stock


Potash is okay.  Seed burns can be pretty conspicuous...or so I’m told.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 18, 2016, 08:58:52 am
A little more of the history of our current insanity....  This guy, at best was just a regular old slimeball.



http://www.cbsnews.com/news/harry-anslinger-the-man-behind-the-marijuana-ban/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 18, 2016, 08:12:04 pm
A little more of the history of our current insanity....  This guy, at best was just a regular old slimeball.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/harry-anslinger-the-man-behind-the-marijuana-ban/

As is pretty much everyone who has followed in his footsteps.

“Those who counted on Donald Trump’s reassurance that marijuana reforms ‘should be a state issue’ will be sorely disappointed.”
As far back as 1986, (Sen. Jeff Sessions) joked that he thought the Ku Klux Klan “was okay until I found out they smoked pot”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/11/18/trumps-pick-for-attorney-general-good-people-dont-smoke-marijuana/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on November 19, 2016, 08:28:01 pm

How are we going to get DNA swabs from people arrested for felonies if you cant make everything a felony?





Cops want your spit.

Give generously.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: davideinstein on November 21, 2016, 04:19:08 pm
I'm out on pot stocks after that election and Sessions appointment.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 22, 2016, 10:19:58 am
I'm out on pot stocks after that election and Sessions appointment.

Welcome back to the 1980's... or 50's...
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2016/11/21/jeff-sessionss-ridiculous-anti-drug-crusade/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on November 22, 2016, 12:36:28 pm
Why all the hate?  Seriously, we are thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to winning the war o drugs. Any quarter century now. Just wait for it.......


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 24, 2016, 06:01:27 pm
Why all the hate?  Seriously, we are thiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiis close to winning the war o drugs. Any quarter century now. Just wait for it.......

States rights...states rights...states rights...hmmmmmmm
Meanwhile, outside the third world:



Pot's legal, so now what?
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/special/20161121/pots-legal-so-now-what

You might notice similarities to their creating something similar to the ABLE Commission in Oklahoma.  At the time, it was heralded as a step towards modernizing liquor laws, but as time progressed, ABLE became the bloated, obsolete fiefdom it is now.

Will other states learn from Oklahoma's mistakes?



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on November 28, 2016, 02:24:55 pm

Cops want your spit.

Give generously.


Yeah...about that....spitting would is just another excuse to shoot you.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 16, 2016, 10:04:35 pm
The DEA just banned non-intoxicating CBD oil used to treat epilepsy sufferers
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/189093/20161216/dea-declares-cbd-marijuana-extracts-illegal-under-new-rule.htm

They did it for the children.


The Drug Enforcement Administration issued a new ruling by which cannabidiol (CBD) hemp oil was declared a substance part of the Schedule I Controlled Substances Act. Following this decision, CBD oil will be in the same category as LSD, MDMA, psilocybin and other drugs.

The CBD oil is made from hemp plants not containing a large quantity of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), which is the psychoactive component of cannabis.
CBD – Schedule I Drug

According to the ruling, the extracts containing CBD will also contain other cannabinoids in small amounts. Currently, the drug is used in treating a wide range of diseases, from PTSD to epilepsy or anxiety, being a very powerful anti-inflammatory medicine. Another use of the drug is helping to manage pain in patients who suffer from different chronic conditions.

The Schedule I drugs refer to substances or chemicals whose potential for abuse is so high that their use is illegal. Following this statement, the CBD has also joined the list.

"The abuse rate is a determinate factor in the scheduling of the drug; for example, Schedule I drugs have a high potential for abuse and the potential to create severe psychological and/or physical dependence," according to the DEA website.

However, the decision did not pass unnoticed by marijuana activists, who believe that the institution is not given the authority to make such decisions.

"The DEA can only carry out the law, they cannot create it. Here they're purporting to create an entirely new category called 'marijuana extracts,' and by doing so wrest control over all cannabinoids. They want to call all cannabinoids illegal. But they don't have the authority to do that," noted Robert Hoban, an adjunct professor of law at the University of Denver.

The new ruling is opposed to the view of another federal agency, the National Institute on Drug Abuse, whose director, Nora Volkow, believes, that CBD should by no means be restricted under the portmanteau of having no medical value.

"There is reason to believe (CBD) may have a range of uses in medicine, including in the treatment of seizures and other neurological disorders," Volkow mentioned in 2015.



You may remember Governor Failin signed legislation earlier this year authorizing supervised clinical use of CBD oil on children suffering from epilepsy.
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/fallin-signs-bill-legalizing-marijuana-oil-medical/67098256

The CBD oil we are studying is a non-intoxicating derivative of marijuana,” said Fallin. “It is not marijuana, and it is not anything that can make you ‘high.’ This law has been narrowly crafted to support highly supervised medical trials for children with debilitating seizures.




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on December 19, 2016, 11:02:05 am


They did it for the children.




It's gonna be a Brave New World starting in January!  Get used to it!



And start working against it!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on December 30, 2016, 09:42:19 am

It's gonna be a Brave New World starting in January!  Get used to it!
And start working against it!

After states legalized medical marijuana, traffic deaths fell

Legalization of medical marijuana is not linked with increased traffic fatalities, a new study finds. In some states, in fact, the number of people killed in traffic accidents dropped after medical marijuana laws were enacted.
The decrease in traffic fatalities was particularly striking – 12 percent – in 25- to 44-year-olds, an age group with a large percentage of registered medical marijuana users, reports the American Journal of Public Health.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-marijuana-traffic-death-idUSKBN14H1LQ


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 03, 2017, 09:19:42 am
After states legalized medical marijuana, traffic deaths fell

Legalization of medical marijuana is not linked with increased traffic fatalities, a new study finds. In some states, in fact, the number of people killed in traffic accidents dropped after medical marijuana laws were enacted.
The decrease in traffic fatalities was particularly striking – 12 percent – in 25- to 44-year-olds, an age group with a large percentage of registered medical marijuana users, reports the American Journal of Public Health.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-marijuana-traffic-death-idUSKBN14H1LQ



With modern automobiles - and even most older cars - it's tough to have a fatality accident at 7 mph!



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on January 06, 2017, 02:53:22 pm
I got sucked down a rabit hole, but this is fascinating to me.  Such a change.

Arkansas voters approved Medical Marijuana back in November, that triggered a commission to set up regulations.  They finalized many of the important regs and published them today:

1)  $15,000 to file an application to be considered for a growing operation
2) Must have a $1,000,000 bond in place
3) In addition to the bond, must hold $500,000 in cash liquidity
4) $100,000 annual fee, and
5) there will be no more than 5 licensed grow operations

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southcentral/2017/01/06/437446.htm

There will almost certainly be additional application, bonds, cash, and fee requirements for dispensaries (patients are required to buy from dispensaries, who must by from registered growers).

Then there is also a tax on the final sale to the patient (above normal sales tax).

I can tell you that the fees to open a brewery in Arkansas do not even approach these amounts, and that isn't for something the State now defines as medicine. In Washington State the application fee is $250 and the licensing fee is $1,000 per year.  The fees to license a DEA manufacturing facility appear to be much less.

Currently, it is estimated that Arkansas is #10 in the nation in Marijuana production (all illegal at this point):
599,632 plants, 264,388 pounds, worth  $424,607,000
https://www.drugscience.org/Archive/bcr2/domstprod.html  (this is a marijuana advocacy website, so I can not attest to the accuracy)

The DEA destroys nearly 100,000 plants per year in Arkansas at the moment.  No idea what percentage they get, but the availability of the drug in Arkansas is listed as "high"  (insert Butthead laugh here) by the DEA.  If law enforcement got 25% of all illegally grown Marijuana, I'd guess they were doing a pretty good job.  So the amount produced has to be substantial.
https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6184/marijuan.htm

There are up to 240,000 patients eligible to register in Arkansas.  I think they are each allowed up to 2.5 OZ every two weeks (with Doctors approval, proper registration, ,etc.) (http://www.arkansasmatters.com/news/local-news/how-many-marijuana-plants-can-producers-grow-in-arkansas/636435147).  The state sets up the final quota allowed, but that is an huge potential amount of legal weed.  A pound of marijuana at a wholesale price in Denver costs about 2,000 a pound (http://mjbizdaily.com/colorado-wholesale-recreational-cannabis-prices-tumbling/) (still weird that this data is available (http://www.confluence-denver.com/features/sustainable_cannabis_071614.aspx)). So each one of these government sponsored oligopolies has huge potential revenue.

Now, anticipated revenue is much, much less than the total potential.  The estimate I found was about $35,000,000 per year.  Still, the government chooses 5 businesses to essentially award a $7 mil contract to each of them.  But the government still plans on losing money trying to regulate it. Interesting numbers:  http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/public/DFA-AMMA-Implementation-Analysis-101916.pdf

Anyway, it is exactly the opposite approach taken by some other states which mandated smaller growing operations (New Mexico caps it at like 450 plants).  While I would prefer to be an early adopter, Oklahoma should get the benefit for looking at what other states have done and taking the concepts that have worked out well from a law enforcement, revenue, public health, and "will of the people" perspectives.

Will we?

http://www.freeweekly.com/2016/11/16/how-medical-cannabis-will-be-implemented-in-arkansas/
http://ualrpublicradio.org/post/future-medical-marijuana-arkansas-all-amendment-arkansans-voted#stream/0


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on January 06, 2017, 03:14:09 pm
Oklahoma should get the benefit for looking at what other states have done and taking the concepts that have worked out well from a law enforcement, revenue, public health, and "will of the people" perspectives.

Will we?


Well, of course we will!  I mean, look at what we've learned from other states on highways, liquor, taxation, schools, parks and recreation funding, etc, etc, ad nauseum...

It would have been incredibly easy for AR, and would be for OK, to look at CO or WA and say "hey, let's basically copy what they did. Seems to work pretty well."  But you can rest assured that if/when we ever get serious about legalizing marijuana in some way, we will find a way to make it so convoluted and confusing that it ends up being a burden.   And then the naysayers (the ones that caused it to be so messed up) can say "told you so!"


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on January 06, 2017, 05:03:11 pm
I got sucked down a rabit hole, but this is fascinating to me.  Such a change.

Arkansas voters approved Medical Marijuana back in November, that triggered a commission to set up regulations.  They finalized many of the important regs and published them today:

1)  $15,000 to file an application to be considered for a growing operation
2) Must have a $1,000,000 bond in place
3) In addition to the bond, must hold $500,000 in cash liquidity
4) $100,000 annual fee, and
5) there will be no more than 5 licensed grow operations





Arkansas voters are a lot like Oklahoma voters.  Stupid enough to let the legislature control important stuff.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 15, 2017, 08:40:27 am

A billion dollars that did NOT go to cartels or leave the country.


https://www.facebook.com/attn/videos/1284654564903333/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 15, 2017, 09:33:32 am
I read an article over the weekend (I think it was in Wired) that the price of marijuana is dropping as the markets mature and competition kicks in. The lesson for the states:  TAX BASED ON WEIGHT, NOT PRICE.  Some states slapped a percent tax on sale of goods, others taxed based on a set amount of tax per unit sold.  So 20% sales tax vs. $1o per ounce ... the latter is not impacted by market fluctuations.

Keep notes Oklahoma!


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 15, 2017, 01:53:15 pm
I read an article over the weekend (I think it was in Wired) that the price of marijuana is dropping as the markets mature and competition kicks in. The lesson for the states:  TAX BASED ON WEIGHT, NOT PRICE.  Some states slapped a percent tax on sale of goods, others taxed based on a set amount of tax per unit sold.  So 20% sales tax vs. $1o per ounce ... the latter is not impacted by market fluctuations.

Keep notes Oklahoma!


Just like gasoline tax ---  cents per gallon.  Or alcohol, dollars per gallon.

There is a way to do this that can be very beneficial.  Just gotta get rid of the Scott Pruitts in the state...   Oh, wait...taking us from the frying pan into the fire!!







Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 20, 2017, 03:09:04 pm
I got sucked down a rabit hole, but this is fascinating to me.  Such a change.

Arkansas voters approved Medical Marijuana back in November, that triggered a commission to set up regulations.  They finalized many of the important regs and published them today:

1)  $15,000 to file an application to be considered for a growing operation
2) Must have a $1,000,000 bond in place
3) In addition to the bond, must hold $500,000 in cash liquidity
4) $100,000 annual fee, and
5) there will be no more than 5 licensed grow operations

http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/southcentral/2017/01/06/437446.htm

There will almost certainly be additional application, bonds, cash, and fee requirements for dispensaries (patients are required to buy from dispensaries, who must by from registered growers).

Then there is also a tax on the final sale to the patient (above normal sales tax).

I can tell you that the fees to open a brewery in Arkansas do not even approach these amounts, and that isn't for something the State now defines as medicine. In Washington State the application fee is $250 and the licensing fee is $1,000 per year.  The fees to license a DEA manufacturing facility appear to be much less.

Currently, it is estimated that Arkansas is #10 in the nation in Marijuana production (all illegal at this point):
599,632 plants, 264,388 pounds, worth  $424,607,000
https://www.drugscience.org/Archive/bcr2/domstprod.html  (this is a marijuana advocacy website, so I can not attest to the accuracy)

The DEA destroys nearly 100,000 plants per year in Arkansas at the moment.  No idea what percentage they get, but the availability of the drug in Arkansas is listed as "high"  (insert Butthead laugh here) by the DEA.  If law enforcement got 25% of all illegally grown Marijuana, I'd guess they were doing a pretty good job.  So the amount produced has to be substantial.
https://www.justice.gov/archive/ndic/pubs6/6184/marijuan.htm

There are up to 240,000 patients eligible to register in Arkansas.  I think they are each allowed up to 2.5 OZ every two weeks (with Doctors approval, proper registration, ,etc.) (http://www.arkansasmatters.com/news/local-news/how-many-marijuana-plants-can-producers-grow-in-arkansas/636435147).  The state sets up the final quota allowed, but that is an huge potential amount of legal weed.  A pound of marijuana at a wholesale price in Denver costs about 2,000 a pound (http://mjbizdaily.com/colorado-wholesale-recreational-cannabis-prices-tumbling/) (still weird that this data is available (http://www.confluence-denver.com/features/sustainable_cannabis_071614.aspx)). So each one of these government sponsored oligopolies has huge potential revenue.

Now, anticipated revenue is much, much less than the total potential.  The estimate I found was about $35,000,000 per year.  Still, the government chooses 5 businesses to essentially award a $7 mil contract to each of them.  But the government still plans on losing money trying to regulate it. Interesting numbers:  http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/public/DFA-AMMA-Implementation-Analysis-101916.pdf

Anyway, it is exactly the opposite approach taken by some other states which mandated smaller growing operations (New Mexico caps it at like 450 plants).  While I would prefer to be an early adopter, Oklahoma should get the benefit for looking at what other states have done and taking the concepts that have worked out well from a law enforcement, revenue, public health, and "will of the people" perspectives.

Will we?

http://www.freeweekly.com/2016/11/16/how-medical-cannabis-will-be-implemented-in-arkansas/
http://ualrpublicradio.org/post/future-medical-marijuana-arkansas-all-amendment-arkansans-voted#stream/0


Apparently not... The bad example has such allure. 


State Rep. Eric Proctor of Tulsa has introduced a measure that's nearly an exact replica of what's being considered in neighboring Arkansas, where medical marijuana was legalized by voters last November.

The bill mirrors Arkansas' proposed plan, calling for a maximum $7,500 fee to apply to run a dispensary and a maximum $15,000 fee to apply for a marijuana cultivation license. It also calls for the creation of a medical marijuana commission, as in Arkansas.

"It's modeled after the laws in Arkansas," Proctor said. "It was done intentionally so we can see what (Arkansas) has done right and wrong."
The bill would task the Alcoholic Beverage Laws Enforcement Commission with adopting rules governing oversight, record-keeping, security and other regulations over the drug.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/state/oklahoma-lawmaker-s-bill-sets-rules-for-medical-marijuana/article_4f5c6dd8-ec25-5360-8025-62f3d942220f.html




Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 20, 2017, 03:15:24 pm
We live in a sinful, unethical, immoral, unjust, Un-Christian country that allows the ongoing torture of children when low cost, reasonable drugs are available that have been proven to help serious problems.   But then again, we just elected Trump, so I can understand....


https://www.facebook.com/ATTNVideo/videos/1664371617201126/



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Vashta Nerada on February 20, 2017, 10:35:28 pm
We live in a sinful, unethical, immoral, unjust, Un-Christian country that allows the ongoing torture of children when low cost, reasonable drugs are available that have been proven to help serious problems.   But then again, we just elected Trump, so I can understand....
https://www.facebook.com/ATTNVideo/videos/1664371617201126/



Sure, leave it up to the DPS and A.B.L.E.
Is this the only scheme the unions would get behind?  Move the corruption from one pocket to another?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on February 21, 2017, 08:36:17 am
So a couple dozen states have adopted various marijuana laws and have operated them for years.  We model ours on a state that is just now adopting laws and hasn't put them in practice yet.  That has minimal value from a "learn from the experiences of others" perspective.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 21, 2017, 11:02:36 am
So a couple dozen states have adopted various marijuana laws and have operated them for years.  We model ours on a state that is just now adopting laws and hasn't put them in practice yet.  That has minimal value from a "learn from the experiences of others" perspective.


Like liquor reform, we arent obligated to considering just the package-store association's desires.
"Suggested language" from special interest groups with a stake in the status quo arent our only option.

The states that are raking in revenue while enjoying a drop in drug crimes should be our model, rather than "what lobbyists do I need to brownnose to get re-elected."
Sen. Connie Johnson, Rep Joe Dorman etc. will surely weigh in before November 2018 when we are allowed to vote on whats left of the original petition
https://ballotpedia.org/Oklahoma_Medical_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative,_State_Question_788_(2018)

Most of the homework has already been done:


Overview of MPP’s model state medical marijuana bill
https://www.mpp.org/issues/medical-marijuana/overview-of-mpps-model-state-medical-marijuana-bill/

Medical Marijuana Program - California Department of Public Health
https://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/MMP/Pages/default.aspx

Colorado on pot: America's imperfect marijuana model
http://weedrush.news21.com/colorado-on-pot-americas-imperfect-marijuana-model/

Medical Marijuana Rules and Statutes
https://public.health.oregon.gov/DiseasesConditions/ChronicDisease/MedicalMarijuanaProgram/Pages/legal.aspx


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 21, 2017, 04:29:33 pm

Sure, leave it up to the DPS and A.B.L.E.
Is this the only scheme the unions would get behind?  Move the corruption from one pocket to another?


No.  First ya gotta get Okies to elect someone with at least half a brain to rein in both of those.

And yeah, I know we will never have the kind of enlightenment the people of this state deserve.   Er, uh...maybe we already have it...?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 24, 2017, 05:07:54 pm
Trump's vow to crack down on marijuana has 'unnerved' investors and caused stocks to tumble
Administrations warning to the marijuana industry that there will be "greater enforcement" of federal laws that outlaw the drug is already spooking investors after years of heavy interest in the business.

http://www.businessinsider.com/marijuana-investors-unnerved-by-trump-comments-on-enforcing-weed-laws-2017-2


Medical marijuana is currently legal in 28 states and Washington, D.C.,while recreational marijuana is legal in eight states and D.C.
NOW who is the kill-jobs-with-government-regulations hack?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on February 27, 2017, 10:57:28 am
'Wrong time to pull back': Colorado governor chastises Trump administration for anti-legal-weed stance

"I think it's the wrong time to pull back from this experiment, and if the federal government's going to come and begin closing in and arresting people that are doing what's legal in different states, my god, it creates a level of conflict that's going to be very difficult," Hickenlooper said. "So we're, we are trying to regulate and enforce public safety around both medical marijuana and recreational marijuana as aggressively as we possibly can."


http://www.businessinsider.com/john-hickenlooper-legal-weed-colorado-trump-2017-2


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 27, 2017, 12:59:32 pm
'Wrong time to pull back': Colorado governor chastises Trump administration for anti-legal-weed stance

"I think it's the wrong time to pull back from this experiment, and if the federal government's going to come and begin closing in and arresting people that are doing what's legal in different states, my god, it creates a level of conflict that's going to be very difficult," Hickenlooper said. "So we're, we are trying to regulate and enforce public safety around both medical marijuana and recreational marijuana as aggressively as we possibly can."


http://www.businessinsider.com/john-hickenlooper-legal-weed-colorado-trump-2017-2



So much for Trump's lies about 'states rights'.... 

Just more of the same from him.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: erfalf on February 27, 2017, 01:02:03 pm

So much for Trump's lies about 'states rights'.... 

Just more of the same from him.



Just for kicks, name me one other indigestible substance that is regulated ONLY at the state level.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 27, 2017, 01:10:55 pm
Just for kicks, name me one other indigestible substance that is regulated ONLY at the state level.


Marijuana is not indigestible.  Brownies...cookies...cake...  Yummy!!


Can't think of one on short notice.  And I would hope there aren't many that have been determined to be public health hazards that aren't.  That's kinda one big point to Federal regulations - since the states have a long, proven record of failure in that, and they are things that apply across all 50 states, they SHOULD be regulated at the Fed level. 

The big problem is when prohibition is in place for something that is not only not a particular danger, but in fact is proven to be beneficial in a wide variety of applications, then the Fed needs to step away from the corporate payoffs for once and make MJ legal.  Put their actions where their lies are - personal freedom,  liberty to live ones own life the way one sees best, etc...all that stuff that they make noise about, then prove the lie by interfering with on a massive scale.





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: erfalf on February 27, 2017, 01:13:35 pm
Meant ingestible. Spell check.

My point was that this would actually fly in the face of pretty much every regulated substance traded in this country. The feds regulate it all, why should weed be any different. And that your swipe at Trump (while deserved in many cases) is again for you a lame attempt to smear him for something that truly is not a big thing, or even his thing. Weed laws predate Trump, if you want to take a swipe at him for not doing something to change it, then by all means go for it. I believe Trump may have also made some comments while running regarding adhering to the law, which the last President technically wasn't doing, particularly in this area.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 27, 2017, 01:33:14 pm
Meant ingestible. Spell check.

My point was that this would actually fly in the face of pretty much every regulated substance traded in this country. The feds regulate it all, why should weed be any different. And that your swipe at Trump (while deserved in many cases) is again for you a lame attempt to smear him for something that truly is not a big thing, or even his thing. Weed laws predate Trump, if you want to take a swipe at him for not doing something to change it, then by all means go for it. I believe Trump may have also made some comments while running regarding adhering to the law, which the last President technically wasn't doing, particularly in this area.


Ahh....yeah...ingestible is good.


??    Trump is the one who said he was gonna start pushing enforcement harder, so, yeah it is his thing.   All he had to do was say nothing and it would not have been "his thing".  But with that massive ego and the huge narcissistic flaw in his nature, he just couldn't do that.

I really don't have to try at all to smear Trump.  He makes it almost too easy - all I have to do is make note of all the stupid stuff he says and does, and the lies he tells.  It may sound like it is me smearing, given the extreme magnitude of stupid he embraces, but there really is a big difference between that and just commenting/reporting.  One thing that is sad is that you don't seem to recognize the problems with all he says and does - I continue to hold out hope for you cause generally you are a thoughtful, interesting, mostly rational, commentor here!!  And I enjoy hearing about Bartlesville, too.

As for adhering to the law - do you mean like Bush didn't do when he authorized, condoned, and advocated torture - a war crime - as official policy of the US??  And as Trump has also said that he supports and wants to bring back?  As condemned by John McCain...   Those laws??



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on February 27, 2017, 01:44:25 pm
Someone might also want to mention that his denigration of the troops does nothing to help their morale.

Quote
TRUMP: We have to start winning wars again. I have to say, when I was young, in high school and college, everybody used to say “we never lost a war.” We never lost a war, you remember, some of you were right there with me and you remember we never lost a war. America never lost. And now, we never win a war. We never win. And we don’t fight to win. We don’t fight to win

And now, 43 is the voice of reason.  Who'd have thought?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZHnChLcRr0



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: erfalf on February 27, 2017, 02:18:30 pm

As for adhering to the law - do you mean like Bush didn't do when he authorized, condoned, and advocated torture - a war crime - as official policy of the US??  And as Trump has also said that he supports and wants to bring back?  As condemned by John McCain...   Those laws??



We all have to start somewhere. haha


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on February 27, 2017, 03:10:19 pm
We all have to start somewhere. haha


Well Trump hasn't started yet.  Still illegally hiring illegal aliens in his hotels.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 02, 2017, 10:23:10 am

So much for Trump's lies about 'states rights'....  



State Rep. Proctor is ignoring states with successful track records in favor of one with no record and the promise of a narco-bureaucracy with a slush fund.

Seems insincere.


Pot sales pay for schools and road repairs, but Trump might take that away

“Money is now going into schools instead of marijuana dealers on the sidewalk, and frankly that is not an unhealthy thing,” said Washington state Gov. Jay Inslee.
Marijuana tax revenues nearly doubled in Washington state in 2016 compared with the previous year, hitting $256 million. Inslee said they could exceed $700 million in the next two years.


http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/article135497108.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 24, 2017, 12:37:38 pm
Borrowing from the liquor reform thread...
Quote
Yeah, but gotta keep chipping away.  The walls will fall sooner or later. 

I do think though, that the tides are turning on all of this.  Maybe not this time, but it will happen.


"If we bring this out in the open, we can generate revenue legally rather than for the black market"
Based on sales of recreational marijuana in Colorado, the Marijuana Policy Project, a national advocacy group, estimates sales in Illinois could generate about $350 million to $700 million per year.
Last year, a new state law also decriminalized the possession of less than 10 grams of marijuana, punishing it instead with fines.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-illinois-marijuana-legalization-proposal-met-20170322-story.html


39 states improved their medical cannabis laws last year
https://www.leafly.com/news/politics/10-best-worst-states-medical-cannabis


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 26, 2017, 11:10:46 am
Medical or recreational marijuana will be legalized in all states by 2021, firm predicts
Several states in the Deep South are changing the way they regulate marijuana

https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/medical-or-recreational-marijuana-will-be-legalized-in-all-states-by-2021-firm-predicts-032017.html


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on March 27, 2017, 08:24:38 am
Trudeau government to legalize marijuana by Canada Day 2018
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/03/26/trudeau-government-to-legalize-marijuana-by-canada-day-2018-reports.html

Basically, the national government in Canada will regulate marijuana at the national level and leave the details up to the states.  It seems similar to the way the Feds in the US have handled alcohol since the end of prohibition.

Does this ever throw a wrench into the US War on Drugs.  It harms the perception that only fringe crazy countries legalize drugs.  It adds another front to the war (Mexico, SA/Caribbean, plants grown in the US, and now the great white north).  It will likely add to the evidence that legalizing marijuana isn't an apocalyptic event.  Perhaps most telling, it is another sign that our partners in the war on drugs are shifting gears away from American leadership on the issue. 

But don't worry, the current administration is going to win the war on drugs.  We just need to keep doing the same thing and eventually the outcome will change. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: PonderInc on March 29, 2017, 05:13:47 pm
Did anyone notice that the OK Supreme Court ruled that Pruitt's "re-wording" of the ballot initiative question on medical marijuana was improper?

http://www.news9.com/story/35017633/oklahoma-supreme-court-rules-on-medical-marijuana-ballot-question (http://www.news9.com/story/35017633/oklahoma-supreme-court-rules-on-medical-marijuana-ballot-question)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on March 29, 2017, 09:31:59 pm
Did anyone notice that the OK Supreme Court ruled that Pruitt's "re-wording" of the ballot initiative question on medical marijuana was improper?

http://www.news9.com/story/35017633/oklahoma-supreme-court-rules-on-medical-marijuana-ballot-question (http://www.news9.com/story/35017633/oklahoma-supreme-court-rules-on-medical-marijuana-ballot-question)




Mike Hunter, who succeeded Pruitt as Oklahoma Attorney General, said he disagreed with the Supreme Court's decision.
“The Office of the Attorney General discharged its responsibilities in rewriting the ballot title for State Question 788," Hunter said in a statement. "The ballot title was reviewed by the Oklahoma Supreme Court and the Court opted to substitute the original ballot title language.

http://newsok.com/article/5543244

Oh I see, its the Supreme Court doing the "substituting," not Pruitt.  Yes, failure is somebody else's fault.



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on April 18, 2017, 12:51:59 pm
Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin signed a bill Monday amending Oklahoma's definition of marijuana.

With House Bill 1559, any federally approved cannabidiol (CBD) drug or substance will not be considered marijuana.
No cannabidiol drug has been approved yet by the Food and Drug Administration, however.

http://newsok.com/article/5545797



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 25, 2017, 11:16:09 pm
Scott Pruitt's pollution was cleaned up and its all ready to be voted on:

https://ballotpedia.org/Oklahoma_State_Question_788,_Medical_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2018) (https://ballotpedia.org/Oklahoma_State_Question_788,_Medical_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2018))


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on June 26, 2017, 08:07:56 am
Scott Pruitt's pollution was cleaned up and its all ready to be voted on:

https://ballotpedia.org/Oklahoma_State_Question_788,_Medical_Marijuana_Legalization_Initiative_(2018)


Link didn't work for me...


Edit;
Ahhh....final elipse had to be added manually...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: guido911 on June 29, 2017, 01:05:18 am
Saw a couple of head shops up in Alaska two weeks ago. I'd post pictures but I do not know how from my phone.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on June 29, 2017, 10:55:56 am
Saw a couple of head shops up in Alaska two weeks ago. I'd post pictures but I do not know how from my phone.

That was a cat, and the sounds it was making were not a ringtone.  I hope you're not driving.  ;D


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: guido911 on July 01, 2017, 12:37:02 am
That was a cat, and the sounds it was making were not a ringtone.  I hope you're not driving.  ;D

(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/cheech.gif)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 09, 2017, 06:12:30 pm
It seems a survey linking cannabis to cardiovascular problems didnt take into account the medical history of their respondents. 
Hint: Sick people sometimes use marijuana as medicine.


http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2017/08/study_linking_cardiovascular_d.html



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 09, 2017, 10:15:11 pm
It seems a survey linking cannabis to cardiovascular problems didnt take into account the medical history of their respondents. 
Hint: Sick people sometimes use marijuana as medicine.


http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2017/08/study_linking_cardiovascular_d.html



It seems like a pretty useless study unless we assume that the consumers in the study were also eating massive quantities of Frito Lay and Ben & Jerry’s products after smoking the weed.

I actually had a casual conversation last night with a couple of MD’s in Colorado about the stress-relieving affects which might be beneficial for people with heart disease.  It’s interesting in a state where use is now legal that some in the mainstream medical community are coming out in favor of certain benefits of MJ use.  One has been using the oil to treat himself for prostate cancer.  He said his PSA’s have been stable but not diminishing.  On the other hand, he did say riding his bike up Vail Pass is a lot more pleasurable after having a little oil first  8)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 09, 2017, 10:24:02 pm
It seems like a pretty useless study unless we assume that the consumers in the study were also eating massive quantities of Frito Lay and Ben & Jerry’s products after smoking the weed.

I actually had a casual conversation last night with a couple of MD’s in Colorado about the stress-relieving affects which might be beneficial for people with heart disease.  It’s interesting in a state where use is now legal that some in the mainstream medical community are coming out in favor of certain benefits of MJ use.  One has been using the oil to treat himself for prostate cancer.  He said his PSA’s have been stable but not diminishing.  On the other hand, he did say riding his bike up Vail Pass is a lot more pleasurable after having a little oil first  8)

If you're talking about Cannnibidiol oil, it's likely your friend isn't feeling any psychotropic effects of MJ, since that extract has virtually no THC in it.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 09, 2017, 11:10:25 pm
If you're talking about Cannnibidiol oil, it's likely your friend isn't feeling any psychotropic effects of MJ, since that extract has virtually no THC in it.

It’s all new to me, but they were discussing that there are different ratios of CBD to THC due to different types of therapy or psychoactive effect someone is looking for out of the oil.  In other words, you can “fine-tune” your high or whatever you are trying to treat or whatever benefits you are looking for.

I can’t vouch for the scholarly value of the content of the link but it was an easy link to illustrate the concept of varying ratios of CBD to THC and that they do exist.  Anything containing much THC would probably never be approved for use in Oklahoma because, you know, people would become promiscuous and all the other bad things which happen with gateway drugs.   ::)

https://www.zamnesia.com/blog-the-benefits-of-different-cbd-thc-ratios-n1323

I’ve been exposed to a whole different view of medicine since we moved out west.  Our primary care doc is an MD, but she was very up front about not being a pill pusher which was great by me.  She highly recommended acupuncture for a certain condition I would have never thought of.  She really seems to have more of the DO philosophy as I understand it.  I’m also seeing and hearing of more doctors starting to push back against the opioid epidemic.  Cannabis seems to have promise at replacing opioids in some cases.

The most fascinating part is these are not young doctors:  Our PCP said she’s 65, the two MD’s we were chatting with last night are late 60’s and early ’70’s (the one talking about Vail Pass).  I’d think older docs would be more set in the old ways and not as open-minded.  Maybe I’ve found the only three in the entire country who think more progressively amongst their peer group but it seems to be more than a coincidence.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on August 10, 2017, 09:55:42 am
It’s all new to me, but they were discussing that there are different ratios of CBD to THC due to different types of therapy or psychoactive effect someone is looking for out of the oil.  In other words, you can “fine-tune” your high or whatever you are trying to treat or whatever benefits you are looking for.

I can’t vouch for the scholarly value of the content of the link but it was an easy link to illustrate the concept of varying ratios of CBD to THC and that they do exist.  Anything containing much THC would probably never be approved for use in Oklahoma because, you know, people would become promiscuous and all the other bad things which happen with gateway drugs.   ::)

https://www.zamnesia.com/blog-the-benefits-of-different-cbd-thc-ratios-n1323

I’ve been exposed to a whole different view of medicine since we moved out west.  Our primary care doc is an MD, but she was very up front about not being a pill pusher which was great by me.  She highly recommended acupuncture for a certain condition I would have never thought of.  She really seems to have more of the DO philosophy as I understand it.  I’m also seeing and hearing of more doctors starting to push back against the opioid epidemic.  Cannabis seems to have promise at replacing opioids in some cases.

The most fascinating part is these are not young doctors:  Our PCP said she’s 65, the two MD’s we were chatting with last night are late 60’s and early ’70’s (the one talking about Vail Pass).  I’d think older docs would be more set in the old ways and not as open-minded.  Maybe I’ve found the only three in the entire country who think more progressively amongst their peer group but it seems to be more than a coincidence.


Would be nice if we could get some of that progressive treatment thought process going on here.   I would bet on the proposition that a very large amount of opioid use could be eliminated if a little bit of MJ was available from time to time.  Many times, pain treatment needs just a little tiny bit of help beyond tylenol/aspirin that a nice homemade brownie or properly crafted chocolate chip cookie would take care of very nicely.  But instead, we are forced into the extreme drugs...  It's like a medical version of knee-jerk reaction due to political BS...









Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on August 10, 2017, 10:15:49 am
I know several people here that are using CBD oil for arthritic and other chronic pain (mainly lower back pain) with great success and a couple of them have actually gotten off pills for pain relief. As for the strength, most of the pot shops here essentially custom make blends for people by starting out with a known strength and work up from that point.

If it gets people off of opioids and NSAID's I think it's a great idea.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on August 10, 2017, 10:36:28 am
I know several people here that are using CBD oil for arthritic and other chronic pain (mainly lower back pain) with great success and a couple of them have actually gotten off pills for pain relief. As for the strength, most of the pot shops here essentially custom make blends for people by starting out with a known strength and work up from that point.

If it gets people off of opioids and NSAID's I think it's a great idea.

One friend I have swears the CBD oil he gets from a local vape shop has eliminated his Petit Mal seizures.  Maybe so, maybe a placebo effect.. He's too "rich" for Obamacare and too poor to see a PCP on any sort of regular basis so its a leap of faith.
I do wonder if the over-the-counter CBD oil from vape shops is even the real thing...one of those times when one might welcome a moderate amount of government regulation.

Just not too much.  Conan's "crafted chocolate chip cookie," as well as the infused gummy bears etc. are targets of so much deliberate misinformation, mostly from entities on the receiving end of grant money that can be traced back to Big Pharma or Anheuser-Busch.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Hoss on August 10, 2017, 12:21:13 pm
I know several people here that are using CBD oil for arthritic and other chronic pain (mainly lower back pain) with great success and a couple of them have actually gotten off pills for pain relief. As for the strength, most of the pot shops here essentially custom make blends for people by starting out with a known strength and work up from that point.

If it gets people off of opioids and NSAID's I think it's a great idea.

And that mindset is why it will be a fight.  Big pharma is feeling threatened.  Unless they can get in on the cultivation, they'll fight this tooth and nail via lobbying.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on August 10, 2017, 01:43:43 pm
And that mindset is why it will be a fight.  Big pharma is feeling threatened.  Unless they can get in on the cultivation, they'll fight this tooth and nail via lobbying.

I don’t understand why they would fight it when they can develop a great revenue stream making extracts or developing new strains.  Someone is making good money off acetylsalicylic acid and other NSAIDs.  This literally looks like a wonder drug and the side effects are minimal.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 03, 2017, 01:30:58 pm
And that mindset is why it will be a fight.  Big pharma is feeling threatened.  Unless they can get in on the cultivation, they'll fight this tooth and nail via lobbying.


Atlanta’s city council decided unanimously to decriminalize marijuana Monday night. They voted 15-0 to make the penalty for possession of one ounce or less a $75 fine — a move that aims to neutralize uneven policing and enforcement of drug laws in the city.

Previously:

    Washington, D.C. passed Initiative 71, which made it legal for adults 21 years of age or older to possess less than two ounces of marijuana after February 26, 2015.
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania passed a law, which took effect at the beginning of 2016, that makes possession of less than an ounce punishable with a $25 fine. Those caught smoking marijuana and in possession of less than an ounce face a $100 fine.
    Kansas City voters approved a measure in April that lowered fines to $25 and removed jail time for possession of 35 grams of cannabis or less.
http://fortune.com/2017/10/03/list-of-cities-that-decriminalized-marijuana/


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: TeeDub on October 04, 2017, 07:23:45 am

Sounds like a great idea.   Who wants to propose that to GT so that it can start to get traction?

Anyone know how much the city makes in fines vs. housing costs/etc. on municipal marijuana charges?


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 05, 2017, 12:06:13 pm
Sounds like a great idea.   Who wants to propose that to GT so that it can start to get traction?

Anyone know how much the city makes in fines vs. housing costs/etc. on municipal marijuana charges?



You can see by the examples there is no one-size-fits-all initiative; we would have to identify what comes closest to our community standards. 
I can see where public consumption would be a no-go but sitting on your couch at home before bedtime OK. 
Driving under the influence would still be banned, but we should be more scientific in how we make that determination:

Bogus Stoned Driving Arrests Highlight Dubious Methods of 'Drug Recognition Experts'
http://reason.com/blog/2017/09/28/bogus-stoned-driving-arrests-highlight-t

You are no more "under the influence" if you have residual metabolites in your system than you are drunk from a beer you drank three days ago.


Citizens of Eureka Springs and Fayetteville have voted to make adult marijuana possession offenses the lowest law enforcement priority. Marijuana continues to be illegal in those two cities, but police officers and other law officials don’t make enforcing cannabis laws a top priority.

Simple and straightforward.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 08, 2017, 07:36:22 am
...and we are able to learn from others experience:

Cannabis legalization helps solves many problems: it eases the toll of the opioid epidemic; it creates jobs; it generates tax revenue; and it keeps cannabis out of the hands of minors. But for all the good cannabis does, we can’t lose sight of public health concerns that must be solved in order to successfully implant legalization across the U.S. and beyond.
https://www.leafly.com/news/health/study-finds-top-5-causes-of-cannabis-related-emergency-visits


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: dbacksfan 2.0 on October 11, 2017, 12:14:57 am
So here is how the first distribution of taxes from pot sales was distributed.

Quote
The checks are in the mail.
That's the message the Oregon Department of Revenue sent Friday when it announced it will pay out $85 million in marijuana taxes for schools, public health, police and local governments by next week.
The payouts represent the first distributions of state marijuana tax revenues since Oregon opened its legal recreational cannabis market.

Oregon collected a total of $108.6 million in state and local taxes between Jan. 4, 2016, and Aug. 31, 2017. The state put $9.56 million toward the Oregon Liquor Control Commission’s “start-up costs” for regulating the industry and toward the Department of Revenue's work to collect the taxes.
The rest was divvied up according to a formula spelled out by law: The state school fund gets 40 percent, or $34 million; mental health, alcoholism and drug services get 20 percent, or $17 million; Oregon State Police get 15 percent, or $12.75 million, and the Oregon Health Authority gets 5 percent, which comes to $4.25 million.
Anthony Johnson, the chief petitioner of Measure 91, which legalized recreational cannabis sales in Oregon, said the amount of tax revenue exceeded supporters’ early projections. He hopes the idea of marijuana taxes flowing into schools and public health and safety spur other states to legalize marijuana, he said.
“I am glad to hear that the revenue is finally being distributed,” Johnson said. “This is what the voters intended. It shows that legalizing and regulating cannabis can help generate revenue for important governmental services.”

http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2017/10/oregon_pays_out_85_million_in_1.html (http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2017/10/oregon_pays_out_85_million_in_1.html)


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on October 11, 2017, 07:55:36 am
So, a net of $85 million in additional tax revenue (after the costs of enforcement).  What other costs/benefits?

The number of people accused of driving under the influence of marijuana increased by 31 people.
http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2016/06/oregon_marks_1_year_anniversar.html

Studies suggest high school kids may be avoiding binge drinking in favor of marijuana:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/marijuana-legalization-college-students/530607/

There were 10,000+ less people receiving citations for simple possession of marijuana.

There were 2,000+ less people arrested for possession of marijuana.   
http://www.politifact.com/oregon/statements/2014/jul/18/new-approach-oregon/were-12808-people-oregon-arrested-marijuana-relate/
http://www.oregon.gov/osp/CJIS/docs/2013%20Annual%20Report%20-%20All%20sections-revised-08-06-15.pdf

2500 new jobs in one year, with an economic impact of $200,000,000 in year 1.  Expected to ultimately create 12,000 jobs when fully implemented (including research and production).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2016/05/19/oregon-marijuana-jobs/84633414/

Signs that legalized marijuana might reduce opiate abuse (too early to draw a conclusion):
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/legalized-marijuana-could-help-curb-opioid-epidemic-study-finds-n739301


That's about all I could find:

Positives:
Job creators.
Hundreds of millions in economic impact.
Far fewer resources spent on arrests.
$100+ million in new tax revenue (counting payroll taxes).

Neutral?
High school kids switching fro binge drinking to marijuana.  Kids smoking marijuana certainly isn't good, but neither is binge drinking.

Negatives:
+31 people accused of impaired driving.


Obviously there will be more longer term studies.  But States like Oklahoma are being provided with a great opportunity to sit back and watch how others do it. What works, what doesn't.  Then compare it to the status quo and make an informed decision. 


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: heironymouspasparagus on October 11, 2017, 09:23:28 am

Neutral?
High school kids switching fro binge drinking to marijuana.  Kids smoking marijuana certainly isn't good, but neither is binge drinking.

Obviously there will be more longer term studies.  But States like Oklahoma are being provided with a great opportunity to sit back and watch how others do it. What works, what doesn't.  Then compare it to the status quo and make an informed decision.  



Switching from binge drinking to marijuana is NOT neutral.  If she had been smoking a joint, Laura Bush would have been much less likely to kill her high school sweetheart in a drunk driving event.  It is an improvement (Pro).


As for Oklahoma making an informed decision - even with massive amounts of data about what works and what doesn't - that ain't gonna happen.  We know what happens when you gut education, but we still are doing it in wholesale fashion.  And doing nothing to correct the problem even years into it.   Unless you can figure out a way to keep all the 'mouth-breathers' at home on election day and limit voting to people with a thought process.  (And no, it doesn't have to be a 'liberal' thought process - see how Kansas is trying to recover from their insanity with a conservative majority.  It just takes real thought.)





Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: rebound on October 11, 2017, 01:29:45 pm

Switching from binge drinking to marijuana is NOT neutral.  If she had been smoking a joint, Laura Bush would have been much less likely to kill her high school sweetheart in a drunk driving event.  It is an improvement (Pro).

As for Oklahoma making an informed decision - even with massive amounts of data about what works and what doesn't - that ain't gonna happen.  We know what happens when you gut education, but we still are doing it in wholesale fashion.  And doing nothing to correct the problem even years into it.   Unless you can figure out a way to keep all the 'mouth-breathers' at home on election day and limit voting to people with a thought process.  (And no, it doesn't have to be a 'liberal' thought process - see how Kansas is trying to recover from their insanity with a conservative majority.  It just takes real thought.)

Man, we really need an UpVote, or +1 type thing for this site.   

I just made the Kansas comparison last night in a discussion.  KS hit bottom hard, and is now having to figure how to do it right, or as close as they can get.   OK hasn't quite hit bottom yet, but we are getting closer...



Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on October 11, 2017, 11:18:22 pm
So, a net of $85 million in additional tax revenue (after the costs of enforcement).  What other costs/benefits?

The number of people accused of driving under the influence of marijuana increased by 31 people.
http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2016/06/oregon_marks_1_year_anniversar.html

Studies suggest high school kids may be avoiding binge drinking in favor of marijuana:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/marijuana-legalization-college-students/530607/

There were 10,000+ less people receiving citations for simple possession of marijuana.

There were 2,000+ less people arrested for possession of marijuana.   
http://www.politifact.com/oregon/statements/2014/jul/18/new-approach-oregon/were-12808-people-oregon-arrested-marijuana-relate/
http://www.oregon.gov/osp/CJIS/docs/2013%20Annual%20Report%20-%20All%20sections-revised-08-06-15.pdf

2500 new jobs in one year, with an economic impact of $200,000,000 in year 1.  Expected to ultimately create 12,000 jobs when fully implemented (including research and production).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2016/05/19/oregon-marijuana-jobs/84633414/

Signs that legalized marijuana might reduce opiate abuse (too early to draw a conclusion):
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/legalized-marijuana-could-help-curb-opioid-epidemic-study-finds-n739301


That's about all I could find:

Positives:
Job creators.
Hundreds of millions in economic impact.
Far fewer resources spent on arrests.
$100+ million in new tax revenue (counting payroll taxes).

Neutral?
High school kids switching fro binge drinking to marijuana.  Kids smoking marijuana certainly isn't good, but neither is binge drinking.

Negatives:
+31 people accused of impaired driving.


Obviously there will be more longer term studies.  But States like Oklahoma are being provided with a great opportunity to sit back and watch how others do it. What works, what doesn't.  Then compare it to the status quo and make an informed decision. 

Any thoughts on the impact of local and county municipalities losing the revenue on possession and simple possession fines?  Just curious how this trades out with the tax revenue benefits. 

The decades-long prohibition on MJ has been a huge failure and ruined many lives. I'm thinking primarily the lives wasted by sending small time dealers to prison for years, people turning to other, more deleterious substances to control pain or anxiety and who have died as a result.  Hopefully, Oklahoma will see the light one of these days.  You can take something which costs the state millions in enforcement and incarceration costs every year and turn it into a tax windfall.  As CF points out, a whopping 31 more people were arrested for driving under the influence of it.  You could have had a marginal increase like that in one year even if it were still banned.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: cannon_fodder on October 12, 2017, 07:16:34 am
I thought about the loss of fine revenue - but with that lost revenue comes decreased expenditures on enforcement, courts, and lockups when fines aren't paid. With 10k tickets, even if they netted $100 off of each one the result is only $1mil in revenue.  Each ticket would have to net $10k (and be paid in full) to make it a break even from a pure revenue standpoint.

A quick search didn't turn up what the fine used to be, and of course there isn't likely to be a net result in the data anyway.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 12, 2017, 12:18:34 pm
I thought about the loss of fine revenue - but with that lost revenue comes decreased expenditures on enforcement, courts, and lockups when fines aren't paid. With 10k tickets, even if they netted $100 off of each one the result is only $1mil in revenue.  Each ticket would have to net $10k (and be paid in full) to make it a break even from a pure revenue standpoint.

A quick search didn't turn up what the fine used to be, and of course there isn't likely to be a net result in the data anyway.

We are constantly told voters want more cops on the street.  Trimming the bloat out of elite drug task force assignments might sound good to everyone except the police in elite drug task forces.
Hiring more cops sounds logical but some academy years result in fewer patrol officers - not more - because as soon as a new recruit moves into a patrol position a cop with seniority moves up, into specialty positions like prostitution and drugs.  That revolving-door approach provides an excuse for not making better use of our resources.

As for what revenue might be in jeopardy...

Cops and prosecutors will have jobs whether weed is legal or not, but Mason Tvert, spokesperson for the Marijuana Policy Project, a group that is coordinating and financing legalization campaigns across the U.S., noted that millions of dollars worth of anti-narcotics funding are potentially at stake. And whether the campaign contributions are coming from a pharmaceutical company or a prison guard union, he said, keeping marijuana illegal often boosts donors’ bottom lines — and ensures that nonviolent users and suppliers will keep ending up behind bars.

“These people are trying to basically allow the continued criminalization of thousands and thousands of adults in order to continue making money,” Tvert said. “That’s kinda shady.”
https://news.vice.com/story/heres-who-bankrolls-the-fight-against-marijuana-legalization


Its no surprise that organized crime is donating to police unions to stop marijuana legalization, as well as the alcohol and pharmaceutical lobbies, but the list now includes casinos, the trucking unions and donors like U-Haul.
http://fortune.com/2016/10/19/marijuana-legalization-opponents-funders


A maker of deadly painkillers is bankrolling the opposition to legal marijuana in Arizona
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/09/a-maker-of-deadly-painkillers-is-bankrolling-the-opposition-to-legal-marijuana-in-arizona


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 23, 2017, 12:06:21 pm

We know what happens when you gut education, but we still are doing it in wholesale fashion.  And doing nothing to correct the problem even years into it.


But they need that education money to fight "The War" and any efforts to reign in its excesses.  ::)

“Oklahoma is bleeding teachers and cutting services to the mentally ill while wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on mass incarceration of nonviolent offenders,” Steele said.

“Instead of wasting money on failed policies that don't make us safer, Oklahoma voters have clearly stated they favor utilizing taxpayer funds more efficiently to actually help Oklahomans and increase public safety,” he added.

http://newsok.com/we-are-going-to-have-to-stop-a-lot-of-legislation-oklahoma-sheriffs-group-says-of-2018-session/article/5569052

On a local level, our mayor may very well be in favor of joining other cities who no longer regard private cannabis use as a law enforcement priority, but he also may be politically handcuffed by powerful, un-elected entities telling him what he must do to be re-elected.


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on October 25, 2017, 09:58:40 am
Since 2013, Police in St. Louis had the option to issue court summonses to first- and second-time offenders who are caught with less than 35 grams of pot, essentially turning a criminal infraction into a municipal one. Those arrested could be released with a court summons instead of being booked in city jail.
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/new-bill-would-allow-for-use-sale-and-growth-of/article_dde3de1a-e78f-5ed3-a9fd-ff18e7eb4de3.html


Meanwhile,

Fifty-one percent of Republicans surveyed by Gallup this month said they support legalization, up sharply from 42 percent a year ago. Even larger majorities of independents (67 percent) and Democrats (72 percent) are in favor of legal marijuana.

Overall, 64 percent of Americans now support legalization, the highest percentage ever in Gallup polling.

“The national discussion surrounding marijuana enforcement efforts continues to evolve,” the federal Drug Enforcement Administration wrote in its just-released 2017 National Drug Threat Assessment. Despite the drug's widespread availability even in states where it hasn't been legalized, marijuana remains at the bottom of law enforcement agencies' drug priorities.

Meanwhile, many of opponents' fears about marijuana legalization don't appear to be panning out. States that have legalized pot are also beginning to reap some of the benefits of the policy change, including job growth, tax revenue and even some evidence of slowing in the opiate epidemic.

The sharp shift in Republican voters' views on pot is the most significant finding in the Gallup poll, coming during a time of increased federal skepticism of marijuana legalization efforts. Attorney General Jeff Sessions has asked lawmakers to undo federal protections for medical marijuana, repeatedly calling it a “dangerous drug.”

But greater support for legalization could complicate any administration efforts to crack down on pot. "Attorney General Jeff Sessions could find himself out of step with his own party if the current trends continue,” Gallup wrote.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/10/25/for-the-first-time-a-majority-of-republicans-support-marijuana-legalization


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: Conan71 on November 14, 2017, 02:35:37 pm
Drug companies dropped almost one half million dollars promoting opiod medications to Oklahoma doctors from 2013 to 2016 The Frontier is reporting.  The article is well worth a full read.

Quote
A pharmaceutical company accused of bribing doctors to boost sales of its synthetic opioid medication gave tens of thousands of dollars to Oklahoma doctors over the past four years in connection with the medication, an investigation by The Frontier has found.

All told, pharmaceutical companies paid nearly half a million dollars to more than 1,300 Oklahoma physicians between 2013 and 2016 promoting opioid prescription drugs, according to doctor payment data from the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services.

And though most physicians received less than $100 from companies promoting opioid medications (usually in the form of meal payments), some received tens of thousands of dollars for speaking engagements, consulting and travel, according to the data.

The company with the largest amount of payments to Oklahoma doctors was Insys Therapeutics, an Arizona-based company and manufacturer of the powerful painkiller brand-named Subsys, meant for use by some cancer patients....

....Nearly 85 percent of the $173,729 Insys spent on doctors in Oklahoma during that time went to only two Tulsa physicians, the data shows. Dr. Terri Lynne White, a partner of Pain Management of Tulsa, received $91,816 from Insys, and Dr. Venkatesh Movva, who has since moved to Texas, received $55,055. Most of the payments came in the form of speaking payments, according to the CMS data.

Payments for speaking engagements, travel or meals to doctors by pharmaceutical companies or medical device manufacturers promoting a drug or product are legal, but must be reported to the federal government.

Though full publicly-available prescription data for Subsys is limited, White and Movva were two of only three doctors in the state to file claims with the Medicare Part D prescription drug program between 2013 and 2015, according to data from CMS.

Together, both doctors prescribed more than $2.3 million worth of Subsys through the Medicare Part D program during that time.

The third doctor shown as prescribing Subsys through Medicare Part D was Oklahoma City doctor Harvey Jenkins Jr., who is facing unrelated charges of overprescribing opioids to patients. Jenkins, whose medical license was suspended in 2015 and was charged in 2016, prescribed $333,469 worth of the drug from 2014 to 2015, the CMS prescription data shows.

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/opioid-drug-company-at-center-of-national-doctor-bribery-scandal-gave-tens-of-thousands-to-oklahoma/?utm_source=Masterlist&utm_campaign=ecc7483bba-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2017_11_14&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_148cc072fd-ecc7483bba-80435241


Title: Re: Making the Case for Medical Marijuana
Post by: patric on November 17, 2017, 11:31:04 am
Drug companies dropped almost one half million dollars promoting opiod medications to Oklahoma doctors from 2013 to 2016 The Frontier is reporting.  The article is well worth a full read.

https://www.readfrontier.org/stories/opioid-drug-company-at-center-of-national-doctor-bribery-scandal-gave-tens-of-thousands-to-oklahoma/

The Frontier is good journalism, but can it counter bad TV news?

A case report about the seizure and death of an 11-month old after exposure to cannabis has prompted headlines about “the first marijuana overdose death” this week.

Except that’s not what the doctors meant.

“We are absolutely not saying that marijuana killed that child,” said Thomas Nappe, an author of the report who is now the director of medical toxicology at St. Luke’s University Health Network in Bethlehem, Pa.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/to-your-health/wp/2017/11/17/the-truth-behind-the-first-marijuana-overdose-death/