Bill would let college students bear arms

[perspicuity85]

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080227_1_A9_spanc67651

This would certainly add a whole new element to the bedlam rivalry- Pistol Pete could have a real six shooter! Watch out OU fans!

This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.  Let's give all the state's college kids concealed weapons! I can see it now..."Dude, did you hear what that drunkass Alpha Beta did to the Omega Pi house?"
"No, what happened?"  
"Awww braaaoo, you should have been there, he pulled out this sick glock and shot up their whole house man!" "It was nuts!"

I can see why marijuana is Oklahoma's #1 cash crop- obviously the state legislature is smokin' lots of it!

[MH2010]

I think OU will be okay.  We'll have roughnecks with real shotguns!

Of course everyone will have to duck when OU scores a touchdown!

[]

[grahambino]

time to add another name to the ever-growing list of pandering legislators.

By virtue of taking this 8 hour class, youre obviously rational and control of your emotions 100% of the time, right? its okay, we take your word for it.

Now start preparing for the time you get to play 'hero'.  You've taken an 8 hour class, so obviously you're able to aim, shoot and kill a gunman under extreme duress and not hit any innocent bystanders.

There is no easy solution to our violent society but I can assure you this isn't it.  

[jne]

quote:Originally posted by grahambino

time to add another name to the ever-growing list of pandering legislators.

By virtue of taking this 8 hour class, youre obviously rational and control of your emotions 100% of the time, right? its okay, we take your word for it.

Now start preparing for the time you get to play 'hero'.  You've taken an 8 hour class, so obviously you're able to aim, shoot and kill a gunman under extreme duress and not hit any innocent bystanders.

There is no easy solution to our violent society but I can assure you this isn't it.  

I can see it now.  
-911 Call
Man with a gun, 2nd floor of Ag building.

By the time the cops show.  20 Cowboys will be slinking around corners pointing pistols.  How will they ever know who the Columbine wanna be is?

[Sirius]

The house bill number is 2513. I've already called my rep to voice my support for it. Hopefully we can instill some common sense in our legislature and equip our law-abiding students with the tools they need to defend themselves and one another, because we've all seen the bang-up job the authorities are doing when these tragedies occur.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by Sirius

The house bill number is 2513. I've already called my rep to voice my support for it. Hopefully we can instill some common sense in our legislature and equip our law-abiding students with the tools they need to defend themselves and one another, because we've all seen the bang-up job the authorities are doing when these tragedies occur.

I'm generally all for gun ownership, but many college kids have serious mental health issues. Depression, excessive drinking, rage, the list goes on. Nearly everybody who had to live in a dorm had at least one roommate who was obviously off their rocker. The other night a couple of folks were telling me about how their dormmates were insane and had threatened to kill them.

Arming relatively stable people who aren't being stressed six ways from sunday? Good idea, IMO. Arming people whose lives are being turned upside down and are far from their support systems? Probably not the best of ideas.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Sirius

The house bill number is 2513. I've already called my rep to voice my support for it. Hopefully we can instill some common sense in our legislature and equip our law-abiding students with the tools they need to defend themselves and one another, because we've all seen the bang-up job the authorities are doing when these tragedies occur.

Why stop with college campuses? Guns aren't allowed in hospitals and we all know how dangerous those places are if you watch ER. Nurses need to be equipped. Doctors too. Even orderlies. Most people will have them drawn before they ever leave the crammed parking lots. Then we go after the churches. In fact, this needs to be included with drivers ed and required when you get your license....If everyone has a gun, and of course that exhaustive training course, we'll all be safe. Its what the founding fathers had in mind you know.[]

[Sirius]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Why stop with college campuses? Guns aren't allowed in hospitals and we all know how dangerous those places are if you watch ER. Nurses need to be equipped. Doctors too. Even orderlies. Most people will have them drawn before they ever leave the crammed parking lots. Then we go after the churches. In fact, this needs to be included with drivers ed and required when you get your license....If everyone has a gun, and of course that exhaustive training course, we'll all be safe. Its what the founding fathers had in mind you know.[]

I'm not aware of a prohibition on carrying in hospitals(which isn't to say no such prohibition exists. I always check for signage on the door), but to answer your question, I'm fully in favor of allowing doctors, nurses, orderlies, lucid patients, etc. to carry.

As for churches, I carry mine under my choir robe, perfectly legally.

The driver's ed idea wouldn't pan out, because the minimum age for CCW is 21. Aside from that, I don't believe in requiring CCW for anyone.

What I am in favor of is expanding the freedoms of citizens who are already legally permitted to carry in other places, as well as addressing a legitimate threat that the police and college faculty are pathetically incompetent or unwilling to address.

Other states, Utah for instance, already have this legislation in place, and they haven't reported any of the problems predicted here.[]

[rwarn17588]

Sirius wrote:

I'm not aware of a prohibition on carrying in hospitals(which isn't to say no such prohibition exists. I always check for signage on the door), but to answer your question, I'm fully in favor of allowing doctors, nurses, orderlies, lucid patients, etc. to carry.

As for churches, I carry mine under my choir robe, perfectly legally.

<end clip>

Nothing like packin' heat to meet those requirements of the Hippocratic Oath. [}:)]

And nothing says Christianity like carrying a Magnum into church. Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition, indeed. [}:)]

Jeez Louise, this has got to be a spoof by Sirius. Or it's one hell of a self-parody.

[TeeDub]

Sounds like a great idea.  

That would make a crazed shooter think twice when now instead of terrorizing a room full of defenseless students, someone in there will have the ability to fight back.

[Sirius]

I'm afraid I'm sincere.

Average citizens carrying weapons in certain places may seem unpalatable to you, but to me, the thought of being defenseless in the face of a murderer is unbearable. I don't live in constant fear that there are creeps out to get me. I've just taken what I feel are the most practical, responsible steps possible to improve my chances and those of my family to survive the worst case scenario.

I've also concluded, based on the data we have, that concealed carry works, and concealed carry on college campuses hasn't caused any problems beyond an unfounded discomfort among certain groups.

I'm as new to the idea as anyone else on this forum, and I'm open to having my mind changed. If anyone has any facts(rather than hyperbole and ridicule) to refute my position, I'm more than willing to learn. That's why we're here, right?

[sgrizzle]

[FOTD]

http://www.redtractor-usa.com/Guns_On_Campus.htm

Glen Beck: "Arm students on campus"

CNN TV show host Glenn Beck today detailed on his program his ideas for arming college students on the nations' college campuses.   Mr. Beck offered his plan in the wake of the recent shooting deaths at Northern Illinois University in Dekalb, Illinois.


Fed up with colleges being "Gun Free" zones, Mr. Beck proposed the distribution of guns to college students through vending machines that could be located next to the soda pop and snack machines on campus.  

Mr. Beck stated, "Yes, I think we need to arm college students and what better way than with a vending machine.   Prominently displayed gun vending machines could offer a variety of different size pistols to students at a variety of prices."

Since many college students are strapped for cash, Mr. Beck suggested that gun manufacturers likely could be counted on offering "Student discounts" or even free "Saturday night specials" in return for advertisements placed on the vending machines and the chance to influence, at a young age, the brand preferences for these future gun consumers.

Mr. Beck told his audience of his hopes that the gun manufacturers could even offer guns painted with the respective colors of each major university and that it would be cool if the universities themselves sold holsters decorated with their school colors.

In addition to gun vending machines, Mr. Beck also proposes that universities could work with gun manufacturers to sell their weapons on "Protect your self" days, to be held once a month on a rotating basis, around the country.    Mr. Beck stated "Heck, I can even see these being fun days were the NRA could partner with the universities and the gun companies and set up target ranges like in the FBI movies with the pop-up people, but were the students could be trained to spot the difference between a crazed suicidal student and an undercover cop and drink beer at the same time."

And yes, Mr. Beck would encourage universities to offer free classes to students on how to safely maintain and fire weapons.   He also suggested that gun manufacturers and the NRA might offer to build indoor target ranges in return for naming rights for the buildings and the offer to stock the gift shops with their products.

Mr. Beck also envisions many fraternities actively recruiting gun owners and even hosting pistol parties as a way of demonstrating their commitment to offering a safer college experience to their pledges. "That right" stated Mr. Beck, "Think about the members of that real serious fraternity in the move Animal House greeting prospective pledges with marble and ivory handled revolvers stored in museum like glass cabinets."

Mr. Beck expressed excitement of the image he had last night of guns being on every college campus.  "So now the next nut job who wants to go postal on a college campus will know that almost every one is packing heat.  And guess what, with the odds stacked against them making a big statement, they will think twice about picking colleges as their next target ranges."

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Sirius

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Why stop with college campuses? Guns aren't allowed in hospitals and we all know how dangerous those places are if you watch ER. Nurses need to be equipped. Doctors too. Even orderlies. Most people will have them drawn before they ever leave the crammed parking lots. Then we go after the churches. In fact, this needs to be included with drivers ed and required when you get your license....If everyone has a gun, and of course that exhaustive training course, we'll all be safe. Its what the founding fathers had in mind you know.[]

I'm not aware of a prohibition on carrying in hospitals(which isn't to say no such prohibition exists. I always check for signage on the door), but to answer your question, I'm fully in favor of allowing doctors, nurses, orderlies, lucid patients, etc. to carry.

As for churches, I carry mine under my choir robe, perfectly legally.

The driver's ed idea wouldn't pan out, because the minimum age for CCW is 21. Aside from that, I don't believe in requiring CCW for anyone.

What I am in favor of is expanding the freedoms of citizens who are already legally permitted to carry in other places, as well as addressing a legitimate threat that the police and college faculty are pathetically incompetent or unwilling to address.

Other states, Utah for instance, already have this legislation in place, and they haven't reported any of the problems predicted here.[]

I'm not surprised you haven't noticed the "no firearms" signs on hospital entrances. You're too worried about saving your rights to insanity. How soon before you support laws to extend those rights to under 18? After all thats where many of the shootings in education settings have been. I'm tired of reading this kind of crap. You want all of us to be endangered by expanding your rights to carry a weapon anywhere you damn please. The same arguments are made about smoking too. Get real. These are instruments of death. They always carry a higher risk of danger for those using them and having everyone packing everywhere is lunacy. No amount of logic, statistics, tragedy or plain common sense affect your zeal for arming the populace but when it comes to making it legal to carry in places where others rights are infringed, then it should be stopped.

Somehow, other countries, other states, manage without everyone packing. Are we just too lowbrow and violent to do the same?

Please  understand I have no quarrel with the 2nd amendment or firearms for legitimate uses. But the arguments made for little or no restrictions on usage of firearms are indefensible. Try to extend those arguments to other inalienable rights and see the hilarity.

[cannon_fodder]

Some serious misinformation going on in this thread.  For or against the Bill, at least understand it.  It is technically the "Committee Substitute for HB2513" not HB 2513 itself (which allows people to carry loaded weapons in their cars).

quote:MEASURE:   HB 2513 Proposed Full Committee Substitute 2

AUTHOR:   Murphey

SUBJECT:   Crimes and Punishments

PROVISIONS:   

Section 1: Amends existing law to allow valid carry concealed handgun permit holders to carry concealed handguns on college or university property.  Allows a university to establish a policy or rule that restricts or prohibits faculty members or employed personnel who have a concealed handgun license from possessing, carrying or storing a concealed handgun on college or university property.

Full text available at:
http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/2007-08bills/HB/HB2513_CS.RTF

It does NOT authorize "every college kid" to carry a firearm.  You must be a license conceal and carry holder.  Which means you must have a clean background, bill of mental health, be trained, and over the age of 21.  EVEN AT that juncture you can not carry into certain places or at certain times including bars, sporting events (NCAA rule), or while intoxicated (I literally wrote the book on where you can carry in Oklahoma... well, "a" book anyway for the County Sheriff Reserve Deputies).

So a drunk college kid with a weapon is illegal now, and would be illegal then. A college kid with mental problems should not be able to get a conceal and carry.  Most college kids are not even able to get a permit as they are not of age .

I'm not saying I'm in favor of this bill.  I have some of the same concerns.  Particularly if it is interpreted as allowed on-campus residence to keep firearms in their dorm rooms or cars - but knee jerk over reactions aren't really needed (ha!  I'm the king of knee jerk reactions).