Refinery Needs to Move!

[pmcalk]

From this month's Maple Ridge newsletter (http://www.mapleridgeneighborhood.com/pdf%20Files/web-fall06-newsletter.pdf):

quote: Tulsa's "refinery smell" is not entirely due to the city's two oil refineries.  A lot of other industries and operations on the west side of the Arkansas River contribute to the overall odor and emissions problem.

...

Both Sunoco and Sinclair have spent large sums of money in recent decades to improve their operations and reduce both noises and odors.  Both will have to make changes soon to reduce sulfur content of some fuels since the cannot spew the removed sulfur into the air, the effect may be some reduction in odors.  The City of Tulsa has begun a major study of odors and emissions all along the river but it will be at least a year before any results are available.

[INCOG] monitors air quality and lists Sinclair as the top emitter of hydrocarbons, sulfur and other odorous and pollutant materials.  Sunoco is second, with [PSO] third from its Riverside plant.

Sunoco has done much to respond to community concerns, with a "hot line" for complaints and questions, a quarterly newsletter and a community advisory panel.  Ironically, Sunoco's efforts in some ways seem to have focused attention on that refinery, even though experts say Sinclair may be a bigger problem.

...

The two refineries are different:  Sunoco processes 85,000 barrels of crude oil per day, all low-sulfur "sweet" crude, producing mostly lubricants but also some gasoline and diesel fuel.  Sinclair processes 65,000 per day into 2.4 million gallons of gasoline and diesel fuel; it is a major supplier of gasoline in Tulsa.

...

Here are the contact points for Sunoco and Sinclair refineries:

Sunoco
Community Hotline 594-6800 (prompt #5)
Communications Specialist Lori Webster 594-6770

Sinclair does not have a "hotline," and lists only a general refinery  number 584-5025.  Also Sinclair does not list a communications spokesman but works through a local public relations agency.

It is important to call any time you smell something.  Unless the smell is traced to a specific cause, it is easy to blame someone else.

[iplaw]

quote:
[PSO] third from its Riverside plant

Anyone for moving PSO...or just big-bad oil?

[aoxamaxoa]

Say what?

Who are you?

Answer: an anti environmental whacko.....

Everyone seems to agree that no matter what stupid idea comes out of that river, if the refineries PSO included are still here, it's wasted funding.

The refineries and PSO are more dangerous than smoking or secondary smoke.

Wake up. Make Tulsa one of America's most beautiful and safest cities.

[iplaw]

quote:
Pmcalk you are pathetic.

That's a hateful and unnecessary response...woe be it to anyone trying to challenge your news story with another valid one suggesting they are not the only perpetrators in town.  Are you going to start calling for deporting PSO as well?

[aoxamaxoa]

PSO deported themselves to Ohio. They are not here. They put little reinvestment into their infrastructure.

They are no longer a good corporate eyesore, er citizen.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Say what? Pmcalk you are pathetic.

Who are you?

Answer: an anti environmental whacko.....

Everyone seems to agree that no matter what stupid idea comes out of that river, if the refineries PSO included are still here, it's wasted funding.

The refineries and PSO are more dangerous than smoking or secondary smoke.

Wake up. Make Tulsa one of America's most beautiful and safest cities.

Why in the world would you attack me, simply because I posted what was some information?  You don't know anything about me, nor my point of view on the environment.

Good, lord, I am so tired of people simply resorting to ad hominen attacks, especially when they haven't a clue what they are talking about.

For the record, I posted the information, which I did not write for several reasons:

1.  Sunoco often gets blamed for stench when its most likely Sinclair, the major culprit in pollution.

2.  If you don't call and complain, the refineries can argue, "we haven't gotten any complaints, therefore there isn't a problem."  

3.  I smell that stench all of the time.  Honestly, I don't always know who is responsible, but I want someone to find out and STOP IT.  I figure the best way to do that is to start making calls.  I would hope that others would do the same.

I would appreciate it if, from now on, you have a point to make, make it.  If the best you can do is falsely accuse me of something you know nothing about, then I suppose I will just put you on my ignore list.

[iplaw]

Ignore aox, it was rude...and ad hominem attacks are strictly for the politics threads.[]

Who else besides me thinks that smell from the refineries is reminiscent of rancid blueberry muffins?

[aoxamaxoa]

Whatever...

You are correct about Sinclair which got the go ahead last year to sell gasoline with a higher Reid Vapor Presure loosening regulatory "chains". Because of the waiver in national regulatory policy by the Bush administration, a greater supply is produced daily releasing more toxins into the air we breath.

Now that gasoline is back down in price (election time), where are the old lower limits? What happend to controls?

Where is the outrage?

[rwarn17588]

You can be outraged all you want. Just don't be a jerk to others in doing so.

[waterboy]

Here's a thought. We added money in V2025 to attract Boeing. Maybe we should use that money to repel Sinclair and Sunoco. Sweetening the cost of closing, reducing or moving their operations to Cushing. A roundabout way of subsidizing the remediation costs necessary for those sites. The cost would certainly be offset by the new taxes returned from all the riverfront development property that becomes available. It stimulates the West side of the river and creates connections via bridges to downtown and Brookside. The Channels group could redirect their money to this repelling venture too. Just a thought.

[aoxamaxoa]

Pretty wild assumption on the revenue side..."The cost would certainly be offset by the new taxes returned from all the riverfront development property that becomes available."

Don't see much action happening around the tractor pull arena. what makes you think we will see riverfront development. Most major cities have parks along their rivers. We wanna be major, don't we?

[Rico]

Just curious.........

quote:The Channels group could redirect their money to this repelling venture too.

Did you honestly write this with a straight face..?

[waterboy]

I'm feeling a little honery[8D]. Tongue in cheek aside, the cost may not be totally offset because honestly its simply an undeveloped idea. I don't know all the costs or all the revenues.

But, what other cities do I don't care. The quick development of Riverwalk and the successful Bricktown lessons should be written in stone for our city leaders. "Provide the infrastructure, the environment, the framework  and the incentives for development, then let private business do what it does best...satisfy consumer demand."

That means privately held riverfront land gets developed faster and more effectively than massively owned public lands.

[waterboy]

More thoughts. Look, its not that we don't revere the money or the contribution that the refineries make to the community. Its more like recognizing that we're a married couple that aged together but has drifted apart. The refineries were a great match for a rapidly growing young Tulsa who overlooked their smell and dirty demeanor. But we're a different city now with different needs. The refinery isn't going to change and can never be clean enough to be this close to the city. And the pain of separation will be both financial and emotional but new suitors will ease the pain.

And this. Those who think that land around the river is too vital to public interests for it to fall in the hands of private owners take note. What would Cherry Street, Brookside and Utica Square look like had they been public properties leased out to private interests? They would still be in the planning stages with INCOG! There is plenty of RPA owned land along the river, they proved they can't do much with it and any new lands from a refinery should be considered "land rush" lands open to public bidding.

[Hometown]

Our refineries put Tulsa on the same level as a trailer park next to a backwater industrial "no man's land."

We bought a house in Tulsa a year ago, in several of the neighborhoods we looked at our realtor cautioned us about "refinery smells."  How many hundreds of millions of dollars does that work out to in terms of lost sales and reduced property values?

Ironically the smells have been worse in September (during the Channels discussion) than at any time this past year.  

RecycleMichael, I understand the EPA does not test for Benzene.  Benzene is a cancer causing agent and refineries emit it.  Secondly, I am not sure how much I trust the Bush administration's EPA.  RM, you almost seem to have a vested interest in the survival of the refineries.

What has puzzled me more than anything else is why Tulsa's citizens aren't up in arms about this issue?  I honestly think that Tulsans suffer from low self esteem and are unaware of their basic rights.  We don't deserve to be healthy, or have a downtown, or enjoy our river.

And we continue to be puzzled at why downtown development and river development never really gets off the ground.  How do I spell R E F I N E R I E S?

First things first.  As difficult as it will be, the refineries must relocate.  Anything else is lipstick on a pig.

If we are smart about it we can use the relocation to bolster our position in the oil business.  In other words, relocating the refineries and loving the oil business are not mutually exclusive.