Refinery Needs to Move!

[RecycleMichael]

You could not be more wrong about me.

I moved away from west Tulsa and one of the factors was the smell.

I just know that there are other smelly things over there as well. If pointing out facts makes you feel I have some inside gain by the refineries, you are mistaken about me. I have gone out of my way to mention that there is also a power plant, a trash-to-energy plant, a hazardous waste injection well and many heavy industrial emitters on the west bank.

If your blaming the r e f i n e r i e s for everything is the way you want to argue, I will just disagree with the facts. That is like blaming all crime on immigration. Yes, immigration issues can be a factor, but crime happens from other groups as well.

I have defended the Sunoco refinery more than the Sinclair refinery on this forum and one of the reasons is that I regularly meet with them and they respond to my crazy suggestions better. They have also done a better job cleaning up.

Testing is now taking place for benzene in the Tulsa area. I met with air officials this week to learn more.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

You could not be more wrong about me.

I moved away from west Tulsa and one of the factors was the smell.

I just know that there are other smelly things over there as well. If pointing out facts makes you feel I have some inside gain by the refineries, you are mistaken about me. I have gone out of my way to mention that there is also a power plant, a trash-to-energy plant, a hazardous waste injection well and many heavy industrial emitters on the west bank.

If your blaming the r e f i n e r i e s for everything is the way you want to argue, I will just disagree with the facts. That is like blaming all crime on immigration. Yes, immigration issues can be a factor, but crime happens from other groups as well.

I have defended the Sunoco refinery more than the Sinclair refinery on this forum and one of the reasons is that I regularly meet with them and they respond to my crazy suggestions better. They have also done a better job cleaning up.

Testing is now taking place for benzene in the Tulsa area. I met with air officials this week to learn more.

Well, it was a question RM.  You "seem" has some built in qualifiers.  I stand corrected.

But I would like to add the refineries have a long history of emission problems stretching over many decades.  And they have been warned, fined, et cetera before.  I think it is overly optimistic to suggest that the results of a study will correct much of anything.  It might be one of those situations where it is less expensive to pay fines than it is to correct the problem.

At least a comprehensive test would answer some questions for Tulsa's residents.  Who is going to test and is there an independent body that will certify the results of the test?

And from what I found on the internet, I agree it looks like Sinclair is more of a culprit.

[RecycleMichael]

No doubt it is a nasty business, one that doesn't work well with urban development.

The air testing is being done by DEQ and is driven by complaints. They are using EPA approved methods and equipment

I will be watching it very closely.

[rwarn17588]

Recyclemichael, what part of West Tulsa did you live?

I live in West Tulsa, and I hardly ever smell the refineries.

[aoxamaxoa]

Hometown....way to go. At least someone else here is wondering why there is no outrage.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Our refineries put Tulsa on the same level as a trailer park next to a backwater industrial "no man's land."

We bought a house in Tulsa a year ago, in several of the neighborhoods we looked at our realtor cautioned us about "refinery smells."  How many hundreds of millions of dollars does that work out to in terms of lost sales and reduced property values?

Ironically the smells have been worse in September (during the Channels discussion) than at any time this past year.  

RecycleMichael, I understand the EPA does not test for Benzene.  Benzene is a cancer causing agent and refineries emit it.  Secondly, I am not sure how much I trust the Bush administration's EPA.  RM, you almost seem to have a vested interest in the survival of the refineries.

What has puzzled me more than anything else is why Tulsa's citizens aren't up in arms about this issue?  I honestly think that Tulsans suffer from low self esteem and are unaware of their basic rights.  We don't deserve to be healthy, or have a downtown, or enjoy our river.

And we continue to be puzzled at why downtown development and river development never really gets off the ground.  How do I spell R E F I N E R I E S?

First things first.  As difficult as it will be, the refineries must relocate.  Anything else is lipstick on a pig.

If we are smart about it we can use the relocation to bolster our position in the oil business.  In other words, relocating the refineries and loving the oil business are not mutually exclusive.

Refineries are like prisons.  Everyone is for them, they just don't want them in their back yard. []

Is everyone willing to pay a little more for finished petroleum products to cover the cost of moving the refineries?  If we move them to the Port of Catoosa which would logistically make almost as much sense as Cushing, then the people in Catoosa and Claremore would be faced with the same air quality issues, same as moving them to Cushing.

We all have a vested interest in these refineries because they put money back in our economy via taxes & jobs and they provide a convenient much-needed commodity to our metro area.

It's not just Bush's EPA, it's the EPA of the Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, and Bush II administrations that have made it virtually impossible for new refineries to be built and old ones to be replaced.  

Along with stifling any new refinery construction, the EPA has made it almost cost-prohibitive for a refinery to shut down.  I was either told, or there was a story in the paper back in the mid-1990's when Sunoco stopped producing their high-octane gas at the west Tulsa refinery that they were considering shuttering the whole plant.  But there was no way they could afford to shut it down due to the remediation costs and that was the only reason it stayed operational.  I was driving through Okmulgee a couple of weeks ago, and there is STILL remediation of some sort taking place at their old refinery.

As far as the smell that migrates along the river, there are also chemical plants up-river from the refinery which make a variety of smelly chemicals, there's a waste-treatment plant right off I-44, though I believe the old sludge drying beds at 71st St. have been dried and filled in for a long time now.  There are also several plating/galvanizing operations that add to the evil-smelling brew over here on the west side.  Though I will admit the smell is worse when the wind is out of the north at my office on W. 41st St and we get the "funk" from Sinclair.

It's just not as simple as it sounds.

[aoxamaxoa]

No. None of this is simple.

But ask yourself, " if I were to stay here for 100 years, how would I want the city to be? And if I start this decade, even though I will be long gone, what would I like to see for Tulsa?"

Well, first on my list is a quality environment.

[Conan71]

I lived on the south side of the south building at Center Plaza back in the mid- '80's.  I remember the literature talking about the stunning river views.  Yeah, some view that refinery was []

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Recyclemichael, what part of West Tulsa did you live?

I live in West Tulsa, and I hardly ever smell the refineries.

We lived close to Reed Park and Webster.

Grandma and Uncle Charlie both still live up the hill from Crystal City. My father is a 40 year member of the Red Fork Lions Club and has his picture on the wall near the main entrance as a member of the Webster High School hall of Fame.

I love the west side, even though I now live east over by Mingo Creek. It is an awesome treasure.

I still stay involved. I chaired the send-a-kid-to-camp campaign this year for the Westside YMCA and have a great recycling center just east of 51st and Union by the Warehouse Market.

I tell people I am over in west Tulsa and they always say, "whadda you doing over there"?

[rwarn17588]

OK. I live about a half-mile west into Red Fork. I think Lookout Mountain and the hill next to it shield my neighborhood from the refinery smell.

Glad to hear you still like the west side. I certainly do.

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

OK. I live about a half-mile west into Red Fork. I think Lookout Mountain and the hill next to it shield my neighborhood from the refinery smell.

Glad to hear you still like the west side. I certainly do.

West Tulsa rocks....great folks. I worked in Red Fork when I was young and found out there were real people in Tulsa.

They endure through the worst air in Tulsa. They deserve better.