South Tulsa Bridge - Creek Nation

[swake]

I also don't buy this.

The Creek Nation said they are not moving forward with plans for the bridge and so did the city of Jenks. And as for the tribe doing this to get a casino in Jenks, that doesn't even make sense. The tribe has a casino directly across the river they are planning on spending half a billion dollars on. They don't need a casino in Jenks.

In fact if for some strange reason the tribe wanted casinos on both sides of the river they already own the land in Tulsa on the west bank of the river just north of 91st, literally across the street from Jenks and the Riverwalk and directly across the river from the casino under construction. They could open a casino there tomorrow if they wanted.

What's more if the tribe wanted a casino inside of Jenks they certainly would not ask Jenks for permission, they would be outright offended as a sovereign nation that anyone would think they should. Once the tribe gets the BIA to place land in reserve inside the Creek Nation (which is all of Jenks and most of Tulsa), they can open open a casino with no questions asked, local governments have no say.

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by swake

I also don't buy this.

The Creek Nation said they are not moving forward with plans for the bridge and so did the city of Jenks. And as for the tribe doing this to get a casino in Jenks, that doesn't even make sense. The tribe has a casino directly across the river they are planning on spending half a billion dollars on. They don't need a casino in Jenks.

In fact if for some strange reason the tribe wanted casinos on both sides of the river they already own the land in Tulsa on the west bank of the river just north of 91st, literally across the street from Jenks and the Riverwalk and directly across the river from the casino under construction. They could open a casino there tomorrow if they wanted.

What's more if the tribe wanted a casino inside of Jenks they certainly would not ask Jenks for permission, they would be outright offended as a sovereign nation that anyone would think they should. Once the tribe gets the BIA to place land in reserve inside the Creek Nation (which is all of Jenks and most of Tulsa), they can open open a casino with no questions asked, local governments have no say.

The Creek already own land North of the RiverWalk I believe.  In fact, I'm pretty sure of it, because another one of our developers was trying to work a deal with them to build some high-end condo's there that fell through.

[Gaspar]

I'll see Bob today.  I'll ask him, if I get the chance.

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

No offense new posters, but I would appreciate if someone familiar with the accusations and a long-standing TulsaNow poster would call an involved party and just find out what the deal is.

I'm not familiar enough to speak intelligently about it, nor do I really care.  I would seldom drive by, let alone use such a bridge.  For that matter, I would only be within 5 miles of it a couple times a month.

BUT, anytime a new thread is started on a relatively obscure topic and it draws this many new posters - my skepticism is spiked.  Again, no offense.  It is the nature of the internet.

[Townsend]

Aww, I wanted this to be "Mummolo'd"

[Jitter Free]

What is a "new" poster any?  So my questions and opinions don't count until I have posted over 500 times?

Someone started this thread about the bridge being located on a specific piece of property that I had not heard of before.  The bridge is of concern to me as I live in the affected area.  I believe Gaspar said (in summary) that he didn't buy the alleged bridge story on this piece of land because he was working on the design and engineering work for Bob David who owns the property.  I politely asked a few questions of Gaspar about his statements.  Gaspar then (in summary again) didn't answer the questions I asked and instead said that a "porno theater" was being built on the specific piece of land.  Did I think Gaspar was serious?  No.  But Gaspar is the one who claimed to be "in the know" and when questioned on substance he has no response.

Gaspar may in fact be a long time poster on this forum.  But I think he is confused on the piece of property he is talking about.  I went down to the county land records office today and guess what Bob David "does not" own the Davenport property that is the subject of this thread.  The Davenports own the property.  That isn't to say that Bob David might not have a contract to buy the property sometime soon.

So Gaspar, you're the one that said that you were working on this project for Bob David on this specific piece of property (the Davenport property) and that it didn't involve the bridge.  So again, let me ask you a few questions:

Were you mistakenly referring to the property on the NW corner of 121st and Yale because it is common knowledge that Bob David owns that property?

If you are in fact referring to the Davenport property, does Bob David usually do engineering and design work on property that he doesn't own (at least he doesn't own yet)?

And, if you are in fact referring to the Davenport property, some of us out here in South Tulsa would like to know what kind of development Bob David has planned?












 











   

[inteller]

let's get some things straight here.  There is no "NW corner of 121st/Yale"....that is already occupied by Wind River.

Now there IS a northwest corner of Riverside/Delaware and 121st.  Just whip out Google Earth and look.

[YoungTulsan]

Google maps doesn't even show Wind River built.

[Jitter Free]

Wind River is located at what I would call 121st and Riverside, not 121st and Yale.

NW corner of 121st and Yale = Property owned by Leadership Properties a/k/a Bob David.

NE corner of 121st and Yale = Property owned by SDV/RP a/k/a the Couzins family.

SE corner of 121st and Yale = Property owned by John Deere Landscapes.

SW corner of 121st and Yale = Property owned by City of Tulsa.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Jitter Free

What is a "new" poster any?  So my questions and opinions don't count until I have posted over 500 times?

Your opinions and questions certainly matter.  You are free to post anything you want and generally will get positive responses.  New people are welcome.

HOWEVER, just like any other stranger - I do not trust unsupported facts from people I do not know.  When you post regularly on here or otherwise have a reputation for truthfulness (or otherwise), I can get a feel for what weight to give any statement of fact you render.  The fact is I don't know if Red Mesa is a Creek employee or someone with alternative motives.  Hence, with no source, backup or proven credentials for his assertions I give it the same weight as any other stranger.

And that is to say I do not trust it.  Not that (s)he is a liar, or being malicious.  But if you trust every internet rumor at face value things would get ugly fast.

I'm not calling BS, I simply do not know.  Hence, I suggested someone that I do trust should call a party involved and get the info from the horses mouth.

[Jitter Free]

Cannon Fodder thanks for clarifying.  I completely understand.  I have no idea if Red Mesa is just making up stuff or not.  Since I live out near the bridge, I am obviously interested in any info on the bridge and any info on new developments out south.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Jitter Free

Wind River is located at what I would call 121st and Riverside, not 121st and Yale.

NW corner of 121st and Yale = Property owned by Leadership Properties a/k/a Bob David.

NE corner of 121st and Yale = Property owned by SDV/RP a/k/a the Couzins family.

SE corner of 121st and Yale = Property owned by John Deere Landscapes.

SW corner of 121st and Yale = Property owned by City of Tulsa.

 oh ok, so starting at the NW corner of 121st and yale, they are going to build a bridge over wind river? [}:)] omg this is getting deep now.  why don't we just start the bridge building at 121st/sheridan?

[Jitter Free]

The bridge is a North (connection point disputed) to South (131st and Yale Place) bridge over the Arkansas River.

City of Jenks wants the north connection point to be 121st and Yale.

STCC wants the north connection point to be 121st and Riverside.

Red Mesa who started all of this said (paraphasing) that the City of Jenks is now working with the Creek Nation to put the north connection point at 121st between Sheridan and Yale.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

quote:Originally posted by Jitter Free

What is a "new" poster any?  So my questions and opinions don't count until I have posted over 500 times?

Your opinions and questions certainly matter.  You are free to post anything you want and generally will get positive responses.  New people are welcome.

HOWEVER, just like any other stranger - I do not trust unsupported facts from people I do not know.  When you post regularly on here or otherwise have a reputation for truthfulness (or otherwise), I can get a feel for what weight to give any statement of fact you render.  The fact is I don't know if Red Mesa is a Creek employee or someone with alternative motives.  Hence, with no source, backup or proven credentials for his assertions I give it the same weight as any other stranger.

And that is to say I do not trust it.  Not that (s)he is a liar, or being malicious.  But if you trust every internet rumor at face value things would get ugly fast.

I'm not calling BS, I simply do not know.  Hence, I suggested someone that I do trust should call a party involved and get the info from the horses mouth.

I'm not saying that Red Mesa is lying, but, my guess would be that person, if they are being truthful, is a Creek Nation Casino employee. I know a couple of people that work there in management/accounting capacities and from what they say the rumor mill can be wild in that place.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Jitter Free

The bridge is a North (connection point disputed) to South (131st and Yale Place) bridge over the Arkansas River.

City of Jenks wants the north connection point to be 121st and Yale.

STCC wants the north connection point to be 121st and Riverside.

Red Mesa who started all of this said (paraphasing) that the City of Jenks is now working with the Creek Nation to put the north connection point at 121st between Sheridan and Yale.

a connection point at 121st/yale is stupid, and impossible since Tulsa has indicated they don't want the bridge and they have total control of access at 121st/yale.  If that was county road at that point it would be different, but it is Tulsa on both sides of the road there.

121st/riverside is the more logical connection point, but the same access problems are there.

considering that some light commercial is going up at 121st/sheridan, I suspect the same light commercial is going up at 121st/yale.

[carltonplace]

JF, sorry if Gaspar gave you the jitters. At least he didn't charge you for them.