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May 22, 2019, 04:46:17 am
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Author Topic: Tulsa Public Schools Spending  (Read 92328 times)
jacobi
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« Reply #225 on: April 25, 2012, 06:28:42 pm »

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I'm sorry, I just didn't perceive this as intelligent and meaningful. Perhaps you didn't conceive of what that must feel like when read by a woman, or a hard working young female teacher.

Wow. I'm impressed.  Way to call him out on his misogyny.
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« Reply #226 on: April 25, 2012, 06:40:06 pm »

Avoid posts that start, ... "Jane, you ignorant slut!" Smiley

You're no fun.
 
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jacobi
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« Reply #227 on: April 25, 2012, 06:51:45 pm »

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"Jane, you ignorant slut!"

I showed one of those clips to my philosophies of life class to see if they could tell me which logical falicy was going on there.  Thats right, ad hominum.  I'm looking at you!
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« Reply #228 on: April 25, 2012, 07:56:48 pm »

I showed one of those clips to my philosophies of life class to see if they could tell me which logical falicy was going on there.  Thats right, ad hominum.  I'm looking at you!

Those clips were obviously intended that way.  If what Jane had said was truly a because she was an ignorant slut and the subject was about ignorant sluts, would it still be an ad hominum?
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AquaMan
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« Reply #229 on: April 25, 2012, 08:07:23 pm »

I'm so confused.....(Vinny Barbarino?)
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ZYX
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« Reply #230 on: April 25, 2012, 08:20:17 pm »

ZYX,

"I think the problem with this is that a lot of young women go into teaching because they think it will be an easy job where they get to be with the kids all day and have fun, and best of all, not take any work home and have summers off."

I'm sorry, I just didn't perceive this as intelligent and meaningful. Perhaps you didn't conceive of what that must feel like when read by a woman, or a hard working young female teacher. It implies that they are lazy, narcissistic, and shallow. Also that they never were aware of how hard their teachers worked or slept through their on job training.

Forums aren't the best place for conversations but we all just muddle through. Some tips to help? Avoid posts that start, "I'm not a lawyer but..." or "My dad was a doctor and I'm sure that's...." or "Jane, you ignorant slut!" Smiley

Most kids aren't even remotely aware of how hard their teachers work. I believe that I'm way more aware of how much work a teacher puts in than most people. Perhaps this is why I get frustrated when I see some of my teachers (generally about one a year) put in sub-par effort.

I know many hard working, young, female teachers that I know don't take their job lightly. I'll say it again, I believe most teachers work hard, man of which I don't agree with their methods, but I know they work hard. I just see too many (yes, one a year is too many) that don't and it's frustrating. Perhaps if tenure wasn't so easy to get and administrators didn't look the other way this wouldn't be such a problem.

Wow. I'm impressed.  Way to call him out on his misogyny.

I can't tell if you're serious. I'll say you aren't.  Smiley
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nathanm
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« Reply #231 on: April 25, 2012, 09:40:28 pm »

I can't tell if you're serious. I'll say you aren't.  Smiley

There is a difference between being a misogynist or whatever and saying misogynist things. Problem is that if you say things that look misogynist, people will think you may just be misogynist, even if you're not. Best not to give the wrong impression if you can help it.
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AquaMan
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« Reply #232 on: April 26, 2012, 08:56:01 am »

Before I bow out of this conversation I do want to express my frustration with the whole teaching process and the unrealistic expectations that people have for it. There are kids who make it to high school without being able to read or write at better than a 6th grade level. Not just a few. There always have been. They come from poor families, they come from middle class families and from households dominated with generations of substance abuse and child abuse. We test them and hold them back. We test them again and when they fail we are hesitant to keep a now 6th grade size child in a 2nd grade class, so we promote them. What else can a public school do? Move them to institutions? Send them to private school? Spend inordinate amounts of funding (which isn't available) on specialized teaching? Move them to special needs where they also don't fit? They can only do what the law of the state prescribes and that seems to be "do more with less". Bloodletting for a new generation.

We graduate them and put them on the street and they can barely fill out an application. We give them driver's licenses, food handler's permits and gun permits. We let them care for our children, our aged parents and hospital patients. They work on school bus assembly lines, appliance assembly lines, warehouses, work in food prep or food processing . They also sell drugs, make meth and father more children who then go to public schools. And it starts over again and the division of the country by class increases.

In the distant past, these kids, along with handicapped and behavioral problems were simply punished, dropped out of the system, joined the military, learned skills through unions, private industry, government and trade schools or moved to agriculture or institutions. Now we blame it on teachers and, remarkably, resort to the same "white flight" syndrome that fueled the suburban movement in Tulsa, namely private schools, charter schools and home schooling. It seems that if we can't figure out a solution then the only solution is to just separate ourselves from the symptoms.

My family has landed on the upside of the process, partly by luck that we haven't been tethered to a life time special needs or handicapped child, and partly by my struggle to learn the system and use it to my advantage. I don't know the answers but I am concerned at what I see and the uninformed, apathetic, dogmatic reaction to obviously critical education shortfalls.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2012, 09:14:41 am by AquaMan » Logged

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Conan71
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« Reply #233 on: April 26, 2012, 10:09:40 am »

Before I bow out of this conversation I do want to express my frustration with the whole teaching process and the unrealistic expectations that people have for it. There are kids who make it to high school without being able to read or write at better than a 6th grade level. Not just a few. There always have been. They come from poor families, they come from middle class families and from households dominated with generations of substance abuse and child abuse. We test them and hold them back. We test them again and when they fail we are hesitant to keep a now 6th grade size child in a 2nd grade class, so we promote them. What else can a public school do? Move them to institutions? Send them to private school? Spend inordinate amounts of funding (which isn't available) on specialized teaching? Move them to special needs where they also don't fit? They can only do what the law of the state prescribes and that seems to be "do more with less". Bloodletting for a new generation.

We graduate them and put them on the street and they can barely fill out an application. We give them driver's licenses, food handler's permits and gun permits. We let them care for our children, our aged parents and hospital patients. They work on school bus assembly lines, appliance assembly lines, warehouses, work in food prep or food processing . They also sell drugs, make meth and father more children who then go to public schools. And it starts over again and the division of the country by class increases.

In the distant past, these kids, along with handicapped and behavioral problems were simply punished, dropped out of the system, joined the military, learned skills through unions, private industry, government and trade schools or moved to agriculture or institutions. Now we blame it on teachers and, remarkably, resort to the same "white flight" syndrome that fueled the suburban movement in Tulsa, namely private schools, charter schools and home schooling. It seems that if we can't figure out a solution then the only solution is to just separate ourselves from the symptoms.

My family has landed on the upside of the process, partly by luck that we haven't been tethered to a life time special needs or handicapped child, and partly by my struggle to learn the system and use it to my advantage. I don't know the answers but I am concerned at what I see and the uninformed, apathetic, dogmatic reaction to obviously critical education shortfalls.

Wow! Sounds like an explanation of why illegal immigration is bad! Grin  That also is a tether on some teachers- having kids who do not have a grasp on the English language and who don’t have anyone to speak it with at home to help reinforce the learning process.  That’s every bit as much a drag on the educational system as special needs kids being mainstreamed is.

I suspect you and Mrs. Aqua have also been more involved parents than those you mention above.  Parents either help reinforce what the child is learning in school or they are completely apathetic toward the process and present it to their children as something the law requires, not as an opportunity to improve their station in life and achieve success.
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custosnox
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« Reply #234 on: April 26, 2012, 02:04:15 pm »

Wow! Sounds like an explanation of why illegal immigration is bad! Grin  That also is a tether on some teachers- having kids who do not have a grasp on the English language and who don’t have anyone to speak it with at home to help reinforce the learning process.  That’s every bit as much a drag on the educational system as special needs kids being mainstreamed is.

I suspect you and Mrs. Aqua have also been more involved parents than those you mention above.  Parents either help reinforce what the child is learning in school or they are completely apathetic toward the process and present it to their children as something the law requires, not as an opportunity to improve their station in life and achieve success.

Though I think it goes beyond the parental involvement.  To be honest, we are using an outdated system for teaching. We essentially teach our children the same way that they taught children 200 years ago.  The problem with that is, there is so much more information to teach them, and education is so much more important then it was then.  We really need a new way to teach.  This isn't to say that parental involvement isn't important, but that I think so many of the problems go deeper than just that.  I wish I knew how the system could be revamped to meet the educational needs of society today, but I personally don't have a clue.  I just know it's time for something new.
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Conan71
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« Reply #235 on: April 26, 2012, 02:12:46 pm »

Though I think it goes beyond the parental involvement.  To be honest, we are using an outdated system for teaching. We essentially teach our children the same way that they taught children 200 years ago.  The problem with that is, there is so much more information to teach them, and education is so much more important then it was then.  We really need a new way to teach.  This isn't to say that parental involvement isn't important, but that I think so many of the problems go deeper than just that.  I wish I knew how the system could be revamped to meet the educational needs of society today, but I personally don't have a clue.  I just know it's time for something new.

The Montessori approach is incredibly successful.  The child focuses on lessons that interest them and work at their pace with a “guide” to help facilitate the process and keep them on track.  The student takes responsibility and somewhat of the control of their learning process.  Problem is, there may not be enough structure for all kids.  

I was one of the kids who simply would sit on my thumbs if I thought I was doing something to please my parents or teachers unless it was a teacher I related well to and had a great rapport with.  Those teachers I was afraid to disappoint.  Once I matured and realized I needed an education to succeed and it rested on my shoulders, my grades improved vastly.
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« Reply #236 on: May 15, 2012, 11:49:12 am »

Per Tulsa World (We hate buildings in downtown Tulsa) FB post:

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A group of parents donated $1.1 million to Jenks Public Schools Tuesday so the district can hire more teachers and reduce class sizes...


I bet they participate with their children.



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Gaspar
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« Reply #237 on: May 15, 2012, 01:26:45 pm »

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A group of parents donated $1.1 million to Jenks Public Schools Tuesday so the district can hire more teachers and reduce class sizes...

Watch out!  In about three seconds people will be screaming UNFAIR, and demand that the money be plundered.
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« Reply #238 on: May 15, 2012, 01:33:21 pm »

Watch out!  In about three seconds people will be screaming UNFAIR, and demand that the money be plundered.

In Arkansas, it would probably be unconstitutional for the district to accept the money for opex.
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« Reply #239 on: May 15, 2012, 06:43:57 pm »

I thought it was illegal for any local group to raise money for public schools above the anointed allotment.  Raising money for local kids put other kids at a disadvantage.  You have to keep reminding yourself that we all strive for the Lowest Common Denominator.   DO NOT FORGET.....LCD.  It works to keep education fair for everyone.
 Angry
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