KTUL /CH 8 / COAL MINES/21-31-HARV TO YALE

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

How does that make my a hypocrite?

Personal attack removed

[Steve]

As a kid in the 1960s, my parents built a new home in the then new Leisure Lanes neighborhood at 20th st. and 69th E. Ave.  I remember talk of the old coal mines back then, and we used to ride our bikes over west of Sheridan, behind the old Gibsons discount and Rebubilc Bank, in the "hilltop area," looking for mine shafts!  We never found any.

Point being, these old coal mines have been known for years.  Buyer beware.  I currently live in a 54 year old concrete slab foundation house down at 26th & Yale in the Lortondale subdivision, and have never had any foundation problems, other than small, normal settling over the years.

I think it was coal mine cave-in that destroyed the wonderful original Art-Deco grandstands on the fairgrounds.  I think the location was approximately where the Microtel Hotel stands today, anyone correct me if I am wrong.  Microtel seems to be holding strong.  My neighborhood (original Frances Perrymen Muscogee allotment) was the sight of drilling and mining activity years ago, but I have not had any major foundation problems in my 54 year old house due to underground mines.  I think this whole Channel 8 "mine issue" is just a grab for TV ratings, as the old mines are no secret and have been known about by any common citizen for years.

[we vs us]

Cribbed from KTUL'swebsite.

[Steve]

According to this map you have posted, my house is on the very southern fringe of the pink, mine area.  My house is on 26th Street, between Yale and Darlington.  No major mine settlement problems in my neighborhood that I am aware of; all settlement problems I know of have been due to typical Tulsa clay soils.  But I was aware of the old mines, before I bought my house 21 years ago.  I guess that just comes with being a 50 year old, lifetime Tulsa resident.

[cannon_fodder]

Woot I'm safe.  I live South of the BA, so I'm clear of the mines per this map.

Interesting.  Anyone know if they are flooded or available for spelunking?  I'm way too much of a wuss for such an endeavor, but I'd love to hear or see about it.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Woot I'm safe.  I live South of the BA, so I'm clear of the mines per this map.

Interesting.  Anyone know if they are flooded or available for spelunking?  I'm way too much of a wuss for such an endeavor, but I'd love to hear or see about it.

My understanding was that they were strip pit open mines, not tunnels. The guy on the interview seemed to be saying that the underground water seepage would erode the coal and landfill that the neigborhood sits on. He didn't really show any evidence for that other than whats happened at other sites.

[booWorld]

I've read that one of Bruce Goff's Art Deco buildings fell victim to a mine collapse at the fairgrounds.  A portion of the building began to subside into an abandoned mine.  The damage was significant, and the remaining portion of the building was demolished.

Merchants Exhibit Building, designed by Bruce Goff of Endacott & Goff, 1930:

Photo source:  Beryl Ford Collection/Rotary Club of Tulsa, Tulsa City-County Library, Tulsa Historical Society

[waterboy]

Where did you read that? Seems an engineer might have done some subsurface study and designed underpinnings before building such a building.

[Vision 2025]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Where did you read that? Seems an engineer might have done some subsurface study and designed underpinnings before building such a building.

The mine areas (shaft mines as I recall for the most part) were shallow coal mines and are identified in a map collection that is on file at the downtown library reference desk entitled Tulsa's Physical Environment... also in this collection produced in the 70's are maps which indicate all known oil and gas wells drilled in the County and if they produced or were dry.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Where did you read that? Seems an engineer might have done some subsurface study and designed underpinnings before building such a building.

I don't remember where I read that.  If I find the citation, I will post it.  The building was very long and narrow.  There might have been some subsurface investigation, but probably not at every point along the proposed foundations.  I remember reading that only part of the building subsided.  But the decision was made to remove the entire building as a result.

[waterboy]

Cool. Someone referred to some old bleachers sinking in that area also. But what keeps this stuff from sinking now? One would think either the EXPO or Big Splash would be cracking and slipping. No need for citations, just wondering.

[booWorld]

^ The Merchants Exhibit Building was located beneath those bleachers.  The top of the grandstand is visible in the photo I posted.

[custosnox]

Various rumors about these mines have caught my attention over the years.  Pinning down hard evidence seems to be elusive though.  I do find it interesting that several of you say that the mines were an open pit, since this would contridict most, if not all, of the rumors I have heard over the years.

[buzz words]

Aren't they going to start selling a lot of that property here pretty soon? If so then channel 8 did them a service because it brings the property value down. The train from Broken Arrow to Tulsa is coming and some homes are going to be gone due to "eminent domain".  This story helps incog.

[shadows]

The parking lot at Office Depot (NW corner of 21st and Sheridan) along with the building, was constructed after stripping coal from a shallow mine.  The housing units to its west, where Roman had his airport, is sitting on a vein about 3 feet deep with about 7 feet of overburden.  

The Sears store was built over a deep vein some 4 feet thick and 30 feet deep.   I bought coal from this deep mine for $4 a truck load.  I was given the chance to go into this shaft in a 5x5 wooden bucket  I walked over to the shaft and looked down and could see the water and chickened out.  It was explained that the shaft was dug deeper than the vein in order to collect the water.

One of the largest open strip mines was at the NE corner of Yale and Pine..  The last mine to close was at 193EA & Pine.