Damn the economy

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by grahambino

quote:Originally posted by spoonbill

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Now is the time to buy, not sell.  Remember, buy low and sell high.  Not buy when things are going good and selling with things are bad.

Just got off my morning buying spree.

INTL
more APPL
ARRS
and a great little fund AGRBX

INTC?
AAPL?

Yeah, sorry I'm a bit lexdisic.

Apple is a great buy following macworld. No matter what they announce, the stock goes down and then creeps back up until the next macworld.

[HazMatCFO]

The economy goes in cycles and we're heading into a downturn that is leading to a recession. I don't blame President Bush for something he has little control over.

Even the the growth of the 90s ended in a recession. The economy cannot continue to grow at 3 to 4% every year, it has to stop and take a "breath" from time to time.  

I prefer a stimulus package that is a mix of quick money into taxpayers hands plus an incentive to invest in capital goods for small and medium sized companies.  

[FOTD]

I totally blame Shrub and his maggots. NOT BLAME BUSH? Then start paying attention.
How can you not understand?

Here. You will not read this in any Tulsa publications. But you will see the reprints here at TNF when it can help you be illuminated.

Op-Ed Columnist
Red, White and Blue Tag Sale
             
By MAUREEN DOWD
Published: January 20, 2008 WASHINGTON


When President Bush finished doing his sword dances and Arabian stallion inspections, when he finished making a speech in Abu Dhabi on the importance of freedom that fell flat, when he finished lounging in his fur-lined George of Arabia robe in the Saudi king's tent, he came home.

Or he came to what was left of home.

A Washington Post cartoon by Tom Toles summed it up best: "Great to be home," W. enthuses on Air Force One, heading toward the East Coast. "Anything interesting happen while I was gone?" Hanging on the skyline of New York is a sign reading: "U.S.A. Now a Wholly Owned Subsidiary of Foreign Investors."

Wherever he went, W. seemed dazzled by the can-do spirit of the J. Pierrepont Finches of the new Middle East. "It's important for the president to hear thoughts, hopes, dreams, aspirations, concerns from folks that are out making a living," he told Saudi entrepreneurs.

In Dubai, he commended young Arab leaders, saying, "The entrepreneurial spirit is strong."

In Abu Dhabi, he marveled at the royal family's plans to build a city based entirely upon renewable energy. "Amazing, isn't it?" W. said.

You know you're in trouble when your Middle East oil pump is greener than you are.

Even as W. played cheerleader for Arab business, the Arabs were cleaning our clocks — then buying them. Our addiction to oil has allowed our pushers in the Persian Gulf to go on a shopping spree to snap us up.

Hillary Clinton was right when she said it was "pathetic" that President Bush had to beg the Saudis to drop the price of oil.

One cascading rationale he offered for invading Iraq was the benign domino theory, that bringing democracy to Iraq would sway the autocrats in the region to be less repressive.

But when W. visited Saudi Arabia and Egypt last week, he did not have the whip hand. He could not demand anything of the autocrats in the way of more rights for women and dissidents, much less get the Saudis to help on oil production. He needs their help in corralling Iran, which has been puffed up by the occupation of Iraq.

So he was a supplicant in Saudi Arabia. The American economy is a supplicant, too.

Two decades ago, we fretted that Japan was taking over America when Sony bought Columbia Pictures and Mitsubishi bought a chunk of Rockefeller Center. But they overpaid for everything.

Now, because of Wall Street's overreaching, our economy depends on foreign oil and foreign loans to stay afloat.

China and Arab countries have a staggering amount of treasury securities. And the oil-rich countries are sitting on so many petrodollars that they are looking beyond prestige hotels and fashion labels and taking advantage of the fire sale to buy eye-popping stakes in our major financial institutions.

Like the president, Citigroup and Merrill Lynch came with tin cups to Middle Eastern, Asian and American investors last week, for a combined total of nearly $19.1 billion, after the subprime mortgage debacle blew up their books.

Citigroup, which raised $7.5 billion from Abu Dhabi in November, raised another $12.5 billion, including from Singapore, Kuwait and Saudi Prince Walid bin Talal. Merrill Lynch gave $6.6 billion in preferred stock to Kuwait, South Korea, a Japanese bank and others.

(While the great sage Bob Rubin was advising Hillary Clinton on sound fiscal policy, he seemed to be asleep at the Citigroup switch.)

As Warren Buffett has said, we are giving ourselves a party to feed our appetite for oil and imported goods and paying for it by selling off the furniture, our most precious assets.

When the president got back Thursday night from a trip that made it clear he has no clout overseas, he had to rush the ailing economy into intensive care.

Next to the cool, strong euro, the dollar is a comparative runt in the world's currencies. The weak dollar lets foreigners snap up real estate in Manhattan.

It is striking that the Bush scion, who has tried so hard to do the opposite of his father, also ends up facing the prospect of a recession in his final year in office.

Maybe if the president had spent the trillion he squandered on his Iraq odyssey on energy research, we might have broken the oil addiction.

Now it's a race between Iraq, stupid, or the economy, stupid, to see which one will usher out W.

The country is engaged in a fit of nativism and Lou Dobbsism, obsessing about the millions of Mexicans who might be sneaking across the border when billions in foreign money are pouring into Citigroup. You figure out what might be a bigger problem.

The national boundaries that really matter are the financial ones: Who's going to own the American economy?

[TheArtist]

We really need to push ahead with alternative energy sources and energy independance, away from oil. Was reading an article about how Europe is pushing for 20% of its energy to come from renewables by 2020. Great Britain is getting ready to gear up a huge initiative to have 12% of its energy from renewables by 2020. We arent going to be able to compete if we continue on the path we have been going. All those skyscrapers in Dubai and elsewhere in the region, most of that is our money at work. We burned up what we got in return to drive bigger vehicles than we need, farther than we need to drive, to work, and to the store, etc.  Thats not competitively efficient. Its not just the oil rich countries buying our companies, its our competitiveness with europe that we also need to be concerned about.

I have heard speculations that the Saudies actually have a lot less oil reserves than they lead on and will run out sooner than many think. But they are trying to diversify their economies so they will be able to survive once the oil supplies really starts to diminish.

Found this interesting article just today.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/20/business/worldbusiness/20saudi.html?_r=2&hp&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

[cannon_fodder]

AOX:

I'm probably not the only one so I'll go ahead and say it...

I've stopped reading your massive article posts months ago.  You so consistently say "BLAH BLAH BLAH!" then cut and paste 3 pages with no comment on its content.  Often a few times a day.  Rarely does anyone respond to them.

Save the board space, just make your point and link to the article for support.  If people want to read the article, they can.

[spoonbill]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

AOX:

I'm probably not the only one so I'll go ahead and say it...

I've stopped reading your massive article posts months ago.  You so consistently say "BLAH BLAH BLAH!" then cut and paste 3 pages with no comment on its content.  Often a few times a day.  Rarely does anyone respond to them.

Save the board space, just make your point and link to the article for support.  If people want to read the article, they can.

Yeah they're all Op-Eds from garbage sources too.

[bigdtottown]

I have to agree with the previous comments...formulate your own thoughts...not just "read this, it's brilliant...or at least I think it is"
Just b/c something is in the New York Times or Washington Post does not make it gospel.

[FOTD]

Well, none of that being true, tomorrow the Fed will be forced to drop rates 75 basis points. If not, then soon. I am amazed at how low rates are getting. Many might go get a new mortgage just to invest the proceeds into the S+P index.

The efforts being put forward by our government are jokes.

There.

It really hurts when you attack while illumination is the goal. I'm having a serious Hillary moment. If you don't want to read or link then don't. That's free will no neo con may take away from you. And if you have an issue in a discussion forum regarding the content of an article then speak up.....


Oh, and you gotta read between the lines.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Well, none of that being true, tomorrow the Fed will be forced to drop rates 75 basis points.

And we can watch the dollar waltz right over the cliff.

Oh well, at least that might stem the tide of cheap Chinese trinkets..or not.

[jne]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

Well, none of that being true, tomorrow the Fed will be forced to drop rates 75 basis points. If not, then soon. I am amazed at how low rates are getting. Many might go get a new mortgage just to invest the proceeds into the S+P index.

The efforts being put forward by our government are jokes.

There.

It really hurts when you attack while illumination is the goal. I'm having a serious Hillary moment. If you don't want to read or link then don't. That's free will no neo con may take away from you. And if you have an issue in a discussion forum regarding the content of an article then speak up.....


Oh, and you gotta read between the lines.

Wouldn't  a good compromise be to just post the links to the articles that you'd like to share?    

I've enjoyed some of the articles you've posted, but your postings remind me of the plastic signs planted in the city easements.

[inteller]

for those of you that haven't already hedged your positions, get ready for a LOT of pain tomorrow.  It could wind up being a very historical day for the market....and I don't mean in a good way.

[FOTD]

On one hand, this may present the begginings to a bottom which s/b over by 3rd quarter. On the other hand, a new era may be underway like 70-79.

Day traders? Remember them? The only good method to the market is long term.

AT THE CLOSING BELL WHEN BUSH TOOK OFFICE on January 22, 2001
Dow - 10,578.24
Nasdaq - 2,757.91
S&P 500 - 1,342.90
Oil - $27.69/bbl
Gold - $266.70/oz.

AT THE CLOSING BELL ON January 16, 2008

Dow... 12,466.16 -34.95 (-0.28%)
Nasdaq... 2,394.59 -23.00 (-0.95%)
S&P 500... 1,373.20 -7.75 (-0.56%)
Gold future... 882.00 -19.40 (-2.20%)

compare that to gold and oil.
WPE....1/20/09

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

for those of you that haven't already hedged your positions, get ready for a LOT of pain tomorrow.  It could wind up being a very historical day for the market....and I don't mean in a good way.

I was going to disagree and predict the normal rally that occurs, but the FTSE has just opened and its not looking happy.

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok

quote:Originally posted by inteller

for those of you that haven't already hedged your positions, get ready for a LOT of pain tomorrow.  It could wind up being a very historical day for the market....and I don't mean in a good way.

I was going to disagree and predict the normal rally that occurs, but the FTSE has just opened and its not looking happy.

I may have spoken too soon, looks like its rallying.

[cannon_fodder]

Argh, bring on the pain!


I acknowledge that the US markets needed a correction.  After all, most of our major financial institutions are openly admitting they gambled heavily on the sub-prime and lost.  Such ignorance deserves punishment.  One can only hope it doesn't spread.

I had lunch this AM with a VP of a Tulsa area bank, they were less than sympathetic with the "big boys."  From the brokers, to originators to the enabling banks who bought the notes - they all got greedy and tried to keep the ball rolling long past it should have leveled off.  I have to agree.

Also, I do not think sending out checks for $500 to everyone to blow at BestBuy is the solution.  I'll just have to pay it off later.  Isn't spending money we don't have on crap we don't need the root cause of the problems in this country?  

I just keep getting reminded how much I hate government.

Oh, and Federal Reserve - DONT CUT RATES IF INFLATION IS AN ISSUE!  The preliminary inflation reports are not very good.  You can't cut rates 3/4 if that is true - no matter how much political pressure there is (your not a political body, remember?).  Please tell me you know what your doing.

XoXo,

c_f

ps. Nikkei average off 11% in the last 2 days.  Buying Japanese growth fund tonight for sure.  Most companies on the Nikkei are now trading below BOOK value coupled with a declining dollar.   Come on me, beat the system!