It is hard for me to believe..

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by jscottelwood

According to Miranda, "You have the right to remain silent", more people should heed this advice...

I have the right.  I just don't always have the ability.

[Hometown]

I would guess the name of the game in the Forum business is "Content."

If you've got it, you are going to have readers and participants.

Seeing as how most of this is voluntary, TulsaNow's fortunes could probably change very rapidly with the departure or arrival of several key posters.

I don't think a one size fits all guideline for how to post reflects the dynamic of a discussion involving various personalities.

I resent it if a creator of a thread lays out rules.  Some folks feel compelled to present their ideas as facts.  Other folks are all about opinion.  Some posts read like cynical party propaganda?  Some people are really looking for direction.  You stand to loose people if you draw too many guidelines.  I have been particularly offended by the criticism of Shadows' posts, people mocking his speech, et cetera.  My understanding is that Shadows is a Native American and I have to believe participation from Natives is something a Forum in Tulsa, Oklahoma would want.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown


 I have been particularly offended by the criticism of Shadows' posts, people mocking his speech, et cetera.  My understanding is that Shadows is a Native American and I have to believe participation from Natives is something a Forum in Tulsa, Oklahoma would want.

Lucid participation.  

My complaint with Shadows has been his writing style. His attempts to make his posts sound intellectual.  I have a difficult time reading while I'm thinking "pancakes?".

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

I have a difficult time reading while I'm thinking "pancakes?".

well, maybe you are simply incapable of grasping his intellect.[}:)]

[Porky]

I'm just glad to see the person running this beer joint has started posting somewhat. Who knows....before long this person may even have a name and an avatar? [^]

Maybe it's just me but it seems gutless to run a forum and not let people know who you are. It's almost like everyone is getting played by someone that only a chosen few know who it is or who they are.

Oh well, it doesn't matter to me. I just like reading the post of those that are who in the know around Tulsa.

[tim huntzinger]

I thought the ider of this forum was to talk about downtown/urban issues and what could be done to revitalize Tulsans' urban core.  I think outside of topic creep, posters here are pretty well-informed and want to advance T-Town.  This is Tulsans' most active forum, and if at times it gets wild and wooly too bad; crybabies who get upset at the tone of some of the threads need to get a clue and learn how to punch back.

[carltonplace]

For the most part the participants of this forum really care about their good old T'Town (the ones that are actually from Tulsa anyway).

Sometimes I think I need to check my obsession with this city because I spend so much time posting my opinions here and then talking about what I've learned from the forum out in the real world.

Thanks TulsaNow for taking up so much of my time and catering to my obsessive nature.

[Sangria]

I realize in some peoples opinion, this would be a much more productive forum if we would blindly be agreeable to giving our hard earned money to the wealthy people in town so they can spend it willy nilly without any questions asked.

That might work for some - it does not work for me and probably never will.

I can't even say I am sorry if that rains on your parade.

Get over yourself.

[USRufnex]

Wow.

It's 4/10's of a penny.  It ain't gonna kill you and it ain't a sign of the oncoming apocalypse.

And it's NOT lining the pockets of the wealthy ... not any more than my money used to build a new deck on my back porch is "lining the pockets" of the person who builds it...

EVERY SINGLE TIME I read one of your posts or Friendly Bear's posts it makes me MORE LIKELY to vote for the river tax... and believe it or not, I'm still undecided (after the BA mayor came out against it)...

I get so sick of reading all the river consipiracy theories and venom spewed towards George Kaiser in this forum.  

Geez.  It's like having a family member offer a downpayment on a new car for ya... if you don't want to buy the car, then don't vote for it.  Simple, eh?

And Kaiser can then donate $$$ to his alma mater, friends, politicians, noble national  causes and IGNORE Tulsa altogether... other causes that would be far less likely to involve people questioning your motives and insisting your donations are only happening to make you richer...

Once again.  You likee, vote foree.  You no-likee.  Vote no.  

So get over yourself... please.

[USRufnex]

Back on topic, this IS a public forum.

If people want a more genteel discussion of issues by the like-minded... just start an internet group with only Tulsa Now members and "invited guests."

I wandered onto this site a few years back (pre-Vision2025 vote) when I was trying to find an online posting of Convention, Sports & Leisure's 2003 feasability study... Batesline had selected quotes posted from the study but the site in general seemed one-sided to me (which is fine for a blog, btw)... the other Tulsa blogs I read sounded shrill and... well... wacko... and somebody from Averill's Tulsa Today forum actually impersonated me and posted a silly message using my screen-name.....

So I ran across TulsaNow's forum which seemed reasonable in comparison.  I lurked online for weeks/months/years?.  Problem was, there were times I couldn't figure out where some of the forum's particpants were coming from... SOME seemed like they were members of TulsaNow agreeing with each other, coming to consensus, writing letters, and posting things like this....

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2680&SearchTerms=soccer,stadium

Since this topic was originally posted as a "sticky" and was also featured on the TulsaNow.org site under the author "TulsaNow," I assumed the lengthy post represented the views of Tulsa Now, the organization.

Months later, in time for the plan to include a ballpark, I was told the above post/thread did NOT represent the views of Tulsa Now the organization... I was told by RecycleMichael that the organization didn't have an official opinion one way or the other when the above thread was posted...

IMO, with few exceptions, overwhelming consensus on a public internet forum = Groupthink.

[Sangria]

It is only 4/10th's of a percent - in tulsa it will raise the tax to 9% - in other communities it will raise it to 10%.

Not to mention they plan to try to pass another tax inititive in the spring to fix the streets.

I have to ask - At what point is taxation going to be too much?

why would people want to move to an area with high tax rates when they can go to other places and live cheaper? They are not going to move here to work minimum wage jobs created by the river.

And if I want to discuss my misgivings on this public forum - I will. That's what it's here for.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex


IMO, with few exceptions, overwhelming consensus on a public internet forum = Groupthink.

I overwhelmingly "consensify" with that statement.  []

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Sangria


Not to mention they plan to try to pass another tax inititive in the spring to fix the streets.

You have some inside info?

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Sangria

It is only 4/10th's of a percent - in tulsa it will raise the tax to 9% - in other communities it will raise it to 10%.

Not to mention they plan to try to pass another tax inititive in the spring to fix the streets.

I have to ask - At what point is taxation going to be too much?

why would people want to move to an area with high tax rates when they can go to other places and live cheaper? They are not going to move here to work minimum wage jobs created by the river.

And if I want to discuss my misgivings on this public forum - I will. That's what it's here for.

"misgivings"-- what an understatement from you.

I've heard some absolutely stupifying conspiracy theories from the naysayers on this site...... care to tell me where Jimmy Hoffa is buried??? [xx(]

Your ilk RUINED TULSA in the 90s... while OKC passed the MAPS projects and developed a vibrant downtown...

I moved here from Chicago and was paying around 15% in sales taxes... using your logic, NOBODY lives there..... I beg to differ... I understand the idea that "nobody ever taxed themselves into prosperity"... but, sometimes you simply get what you PAY for... or DON'T pay for, in Tulsa's case...

I've met enough ex-Tulsans over the years to understand that the bitter anti-any-tax naysayers have stayed in this town for far too long while other reasonable folks who LOVE THIS CITY have left over the years... I'd pay 3 cents extra tax on the dollar to get rid of you people... that's right, I said it... high time to get rid of the gripers, moaners, naysayers, Tulsa-haters, etc, etc...

People DON'T move to Tulsa (or back to Tulsa) from other parts of the country because the sales taxes are too high or too low... people move to Tulsa because housing prices are very affordable here, the cost of living is low, many of the people here are laid back and friendly, and the job market is good...

I may not end up voting for the river tax next Tuesday because I'm not so sure it's appropriate to have people from Broken Arrow and Owasso pay for something they themselves may not use very often... I don't think people who live along Riverside Drive would appreciate paying 4/10s of a penny on every dollar they spend to beautify Lake Oologah... and this river project may subsidize other communities and give unfair advantage to Sand Springs, Jenks and Bixby... and I still believe the powers-that-be think the "Boeing money" from Vision2025 is somehow still theirs to spend...

I could still vote for it, especially if I keep reading creepy posts from tax-hating nutjobs...

I am tired of folks treating the city of Tulsa, it's politicians and it's philanthropists, with the utter contempt that Friendly Bear and the "tax-vampire-hating" freak-a-zoids on this site have over the course of the past few weeks and months of debate over the river tax...

[Sangria]

I don't hate all taxes.

What I have a problem with is that taxes seem to be the solution to everything.

Apparently some of you missed the news program where they already said there could be a vote in the spring for a tax to repair roads.

The City of Tulsa has no money - yet they can afford to spend 70 million to move into a new building.

No money to fix the streets but plenty to spend fixing the ones to the new arena.

I just don't see the things they are claiming as being true.