It is hard for me to believe..

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelBates

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

While Friendly Bear seems to be the resident malcontent of the week, I don't see that things are exactly running away or anything. Sometimes it seems like the rules are too tight, othertimes it seems like things aren't caught quickly or strongly enough. I think that as long as Ken Busby isn't the moderator on this website, some of us will be happy.

Likely no-one spends as much time here as me, I've seen this forum ebb and flow just depending on the world around it. If the river vote wasn't coming up, the posts count would probably be about half right now.

Mr. Busby would be an acceptable Moderator, IF he discloses that he is a quoted SUPPORTER of the Kaiser River Tax, with TWO, TWO, TWO Our River Yes yard signs.  

Not one.  

TWO.

2

II

Dos

Deux

Zwei

..

[:O][:O]

Ken Busby was the moderator at last night's event at the Central Center, and he did an excellent job -- very evenhanded. I didn't see anyone, either on the panel or in the audience, get stopped from saying something they wanted to get across. Like a good ref, he let the players play ball.

Was that the Two-versus-One debate that you handled vs. INCOG's Mr. Lasker and Mr. Kaiser's Levitation?

SOUNDS fair............2 against 1.

[TheArtist]

While there are a few annoying people on here, I realize that not everyone can be as resoundly loved as I am. I have been challenged a lot by discussions on here, have learned a lot, and realize I still have a lot to learn. I appreciate the debate, do not appreciate name calling and demonizing which I think hinders debate and turns people off from engaging in it.

[Kenosha]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Translating for Kenosha: I don't like the way the discussions are going, so I'm going to act like David Arnett.

It's really not the political leanings of the posts that bother me, it's lack of continuity between position and evidence. Combine this lack of logic with a remarkable amount of disinformation and rumor mongering, and I find myself, more often than not, finding better ways to spend my time. I just don't see the point in responding to posts that stage themselves as factual but in fact are anything but. It really has nothing to do with the River, though that seems to be the topic of the day. I commend those of you who are willing to engage in these brain addling discussions, and who are trying to get some sort of truth injected in this repartee.

I equate it to being stuck in the mud in your car. We are spinning our wheels, holding our collective foot on the pedal hoping the tires will grab and eventually pull us out. Instead of working together trying to figure out how to get un-stuck, we spend our time trying to figure out why we got stuck and whose fault it was. All that ever happens is that you end up spraying mud on everybody. It accomplishes nothing.

Maybe it's me, but I prefer spending my time thinking about what could be, rather than why it can't be.

[Kenosha]

quote: Continuing a thread I meant to expand upon ...

Online forums do best when there is *participation.* Kenosha, you need to stop sulking like you have in recent weeks and start engaging.

The free marketplace of ideas can be messy and irritating. But it's one of the pillars on which our country was founded. And it does no good when you're sitting on the sidelines.

Participation also keeps ill-conceived ideas from getting a foothold. One rather persistent poster here keeps yanging about ideas that have already been effectively refuted and thus exposes herself/himself to be a fool.

And those who think TulsaNow is bad obviously haven't checked out the woeful Voice of Tulsa, which is now little more than about two dozen participants, many of them which are misanthropes and thinly veiled bigots. Heck, one of its members even advocated mass murder.

I reiterate, I really don't care on what side of the fence your opinion lands you.  I do care that you are able to support your argument with logical, factual information.  Preferably, they should be presented in a readable fashion.

And I am not targeting anyone person or group...I have seen this problem across the spectrum of opinions.

As far as moderation, I would just say this; much of the problem, IMO, stems from unverified rumors.  Using our best judgment, if we can limit the number of these, I believe the scope of the discussions will be far more relevant.

I absolutely believe that democracy was designed to be messy, and that these forums provide a place for that to take place.  That being said, and at risk of being a hypocrite, the anonymity factor changes the playing field a bit.  Kudos to Michael Bates and Michael Patton, and all of the rest of you who do use your real names.  It is easy to be brave when there is no fear of backlash.

[pmcalk]

I don't entirely disagree with you, but I don't know that the problem is all that new, or even confined to forums such as these.  I like your analogy of the tire wheels, but to me it's more akin to five year olds arguing, i.e., sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling at eachother louder and louder. No different from much of the "news" these days, where real discussion has been replaced by pundits yelling at eachother.  Doing nothing more than reinforcing preconceived notions.  There are a lot of people on this board like that, who are yelling about lots, but listening to no one.  IMO, to have a serious, thoughtful conversation (as opposed to a yelling competition), you have to be willing to admit that someone else might be right, and you might be wrong.  Still, there are also many on the board that can engage in thoughtful discussion.  And I for one have learned a lot about the river vote from different posters.

[Conan71]

Well, I just don't put stock in what any of the blowhards with more than 3500 posts to their credit...

uh, I digress...

[RecycleMichael]

I promise to do better, Kenosha.

The reason that talk is cheap is that supply exceeds demand.

[Chicken Little]

I think that there was a time when people worked a lot harder.  I'd say that many of the regular posters have gotten lazy...just a bunch of people spewing forth the first thing that comes to mind, no citations, no carefully constructed arguments, just unmitigated opinion...which, I think, leads to a lot more bickering.

Some people still work hard and they make reading worthwhile.  But others just like to hear themselves talk.  I've been caught in both corners; I'm no angel.

It'd be interesting to experiment with a little quality control.  I'd like to see some +/-, recommend/troll, ratings.  Does Snitz do that?  If somebody works hard to put together a good post, others should be allowed to "bump" them up.  Likewise, lazy, snarky, crazy stuff could be troll rated...possibly out of existence.  I know you can "game" these kinds of systems, but I think we ought to try it anyway.

[Admin]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

I think that there was a time when people worked a lot harder.  I'd say that many of the regular posters have gotten lazy...just a bunch of people spewing forth the first thing that comes to mind, no citations, no carefully constructed arguments, just unmitigated opinion...which, I think, leads to a lot more bickering.

Some people still work hard and they make reading worthwhile.  But others just like to hear themselves talk.  I've been caught in both corners; I'm no angel.

It'd be interesting to experiment with a little quality control.  I'd like to see some +/-, recommend/troll, ratings.  Does Snitz do that?  If somebody works hard to put together a good post, others should be allowed to "bump" them up.  Likewise, lazy, snarky, crazy stuff could be troll rated...possibly out of existence.  I know you can "game" these kinds of systems, but I think we ought to try it anyway.

Snitz does not. New forum code (in development) does allow that and more. If anyone is good with mysql, PM or email me.

[Rico]

Well... you realize that if all were pressed for every source....

facts regarding an event that they were witness to..

even though the information was disclosed without any expectation of privacy......

Secrets might get out.... who knew what when etc...
Insider knowledge comes with a price..$
You have to be willing to separate the wheat from the chaff(?)

There is a line, as in all other things, and most can tell a duck before they see it walk or talk.


[}:)]

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Kenosha
[br  My intelligence is now almost guaranteed to be insulted upon opening a thread.

you mean it CAN be insulted?  now that is something to sit and ponder.[}:)]

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Translating for Kenosha: I don't like the way the discussions are going, so I'm going to act like David Arnett.

[}:)]

I'm glad someone was folly to start a thread like this...I needed a few good laughs.

Oh, and I second the suggestion for the snitz forum crap, nothing is more fun than launching a snitz script to minus someone down to -100 over the course of a few days and watching them go crying to their mommy over stupid ratings on a petty board that simply serves as good entertainment.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

While there are a few annoying people on here, I realize that not everyone can be as resoundly loved as I am.

you need to stay off the MDMA.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

While there are a few annoying people on here, I realize that not everyone can be as resoundly loved as I am.

you need to stay off the MDMA.

Hey! I resent that. I even resented it before I googled it to find out what it was.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

While there are a few annoying people on here, I realize that not everyone can be as resoundly loved as I am.

you need to stay off the MDMA.

They make it so easy, and all along I thought it was just the kool-aid talking. Raver.