Shootings at The Ministry of Sound.

[rwarn17588]

Hawkins, the way you sound, it's you've never actually visited a city.

[AngieB]

Hawkins uses every opportunity to claim that downtown is scary, dangerous, confusing, deserted -- whatever he can think of to slam the area. All while talking up south Tulsa.

I think it's time for an addition to the ignore list...wouldn't be missing any posts of any value that's for sure.

[cannon_fodder]

As I stated earlier, I was just in that area the day before.  Went to the Ballet, a diner, and Arnies... all without getting shot at.

That club, under various names, has always seemed to be an issue.

[swake]

People have been killed or badly hurt at Kitchell's clubs for years, many times at the hands of his staff. He's the common denominator. This has happened at Clubs he owned downtown, on Brookside, at 66th and Mingo, at 81st and Memorial and in the Brady. Don't blame downtown, blame this owner, this has type of crap has happened at his clubs for decades and all over town.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaMINI

Hawkins uses every opportunity to claim that downtown is scary, dangerous, confusing, deserted -- whatever he can think of to slam the area. All while talking up south Tulsa.

I think it's time for an addition to the ignore list...wouldn't be missing any posts of any value that's for sure.

Now.. now..MINI.... you must understand Hawkins has one of those paranoia conditions.... Just look at how Hawkins goes to lunch at the Country Club....





[8D]

[swake]

http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=120241


Protest Planned At Downtown Tulsa Nightclub
KOTV - 2/12/2007 4:28 PM - Updated 2/13/2007 9:06 AM
Two teenagers fight for their lives after being shot at a downtown Tulsa nightclub. A 15-year-old boy was shot in the neck at the Ministry of Sound nightclub, said police. The bullet went through his neck and into the face of 18-year-old Jeremy Lin. Lin underwent his second surgery remove bullet fragments from his brain on Monday.

News On 6 anchor Tami Marler spoke exclusively with the Lin family about their outrage over the club's practices.

It took more than 50-officers to control the crowd outside of the Ministry of Sound, located at 3rd and Greenwood, after gunshots rang out inside the bar late Saturday night.

15-year-old Jesse Lin was one of several underage kids who got into the club.

"I just walked up to the door and there was a bouncer there and he asked me if I was over 21, he said under and gave me a stamp and let me in," Lin said.

The club has changed names several times, but remained under the same management and drawn the same types of violent acts. This time, Jesse's brother Jeremy was caught in the middle.

"People was throwing bottles and my brother stepped up on a chair, and then we heard a gunshot and everybody got down," said Lin "I thought he was just hiding and I saw that he was bleeding."

"My son took his coat off and put pressure on his brother's head to keep him from bleeding to death," said the boys mother Kelly Lin.

She got the overnight phone call that every parent dreads.

"My son was shot in the face and went behind the eyes and it's lodged behind the eye," she said.

Lin says surgeons put Jeremy's chances at 50-50, and if he does survive the boy who was on the road to graduation will be lucky to be on a long road to recovery.

"He's blind in his left eye, and right now we don't have movement in his left side," said Kelly.

Kelly wants other parents to know the Ministry is planning to open again, for a Mardi Gras celebration that she fears will be just as bloody.

"Parents don't need to do this, neither do kids," she said. "This bar does not need to open for it. I will protest against it."

Underage kids may think it's cool to slip past the law, but Jesse Lin has some advice.

"Don't go there, you don't need to be around them. They're getting drunk and acting crazy. They don't need to go there," he said.

Police and patrons estimate 1,200 to 1,500 people were at the club Saturday night. Witnesses say they knew several underage kids there, and some were drinking beer.

The Ministry is scheduled to re-open on Thursday, and the Lin family plan to be there in protest.

Tulsa Police tell us Steve Kitchell, the club's owner, offered to contribute $10,000 to the Crimestoppers reward fund to find the shooter.

[Conan71]

I think a big part of the problem is allowing 18 to 20 year olds into clubs where beer is served.  You are begging for trouble.  Why Oklahoma law allows this is beyond me.  It seems like most of the problems are caused by the under 21's that are getting in and hanging out in the area.

Kitchell doesn't give two s***s as long as he is making money, and paying his vendors as little of it as he can get away with.  Trouble follows him around because he is pandering to a very young crowd and he knows people under 21 are getting beer once inside his club, but he just doesn't care because it's making him money.

Hawkins' view of downtown and his view on about every other issue I've seen him comment on here is very myopic.  

The Blue Dome is a frequent haunt for me, and the reason there are no problems with places like Arnie's is because Chris and JoAnn don't put up with crap and since they serve liquor, you can't get in if you are under 21.  You also don't see problems with the restaurants in the area.

[tim huntzinger]

I hope the family of the injured boy sues.  Should not have been there, certainly should not have stood on a chair when he heard a commotion.

I was recommending downtown to some NSU students for clubbing, and they expressed concerns about their safety, but said they would be more interested if they knew people down there.

[sgrizzle]

Maybe I missed it, but on top of the fact the club was letting underaged people in, why does a mother let her 15yr old go club-hopping at 2am?

[rwarn17588]

Conan wrote:

I think a big part of the problem is allowing 18 to 20 year olds into clubs where beer is served. You are begging for trouble. Why Oklahoma law allows this is beyond me. It seems like most of the problems are caused by the under 21's that are getting in and hanging out in the area.

<end clip>

I'm stunned to know this is the case in Oklahoma. In my home state, allowing kids under 21 in saloons has been outlawed for at least a decade, probably longer.

I guess I didn't know because the bar where I go seldom has anyone under 50. [:I]

[Hawkins]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by TulsaMINI

Hawkins uses every opportunity to claim that downtown is scary, dangerous, confusing, deserted -- whatever he can think of to slam the area. All while talking up south Tulsa.

I think it's time for an addition to the ignore list...wouldn't be missing any posts of any value that's for sure.

Now.. now..MINI.... you must understand Hawkins has one of those paranoia conditions.... Just look at how Hawkins goes to lunch at the Country Club....





[8D]

Nice pic! Love it.

Am I being myopic around here?

Death is permanent. Chances of death resulting from visiting a packed nightclub in downtown <any large city USA> = higher than average.

Chances of death resulting from shoplifting incident at a large retailer = extremely low, and should NEVER happen.

These have been my recent posts and I don't think its myopic to state such opinions.

I saw one of the parents on the 6 in the Morning news, and while I do feel sympathy for her, I cannot help but wonder if she knew her child was entering an 18-and-over nightclub downtown. That is something I would never allow a loved one to do. Its not just gunfire, but fights, pills slipped in drinks, and over-the-top bouncers that one also needs to worry about in these clubs... whether they are downtown or not.

There I said it, but downtown still = slightly higher risk in my book.

[rwarn17588]

Slightly higher risk compared to what? Staying at home and quaking in fear under the covers of your bedsheets?

I guess there would be higher risk in comparison. But it'd sure be a crappy way to live.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by rwarn17588

Conan wrote:

I think a big part of the problem is allowing 18 to 20 year olds into clubs where beer is served. You are begging for trouble. Why Oklahoma law allows this is beyond me. It seems like most of the problems are caused by the under 21's that are getting in and hanging out in the area.

<end clip>

I'm stunned to know this is the case in Oklahoma. In my home state, allowing kids under 21 in saloons has been outlawed for at least a decade, probably longer.

I guess I didn't know because the bar where I go seldom has anyone under 50. [:I]

RW, Oklahoma is full of odd laws.  By definition of Oklahoma law 3.2 beer is a "non-intoxicating beverage".  I've been $h!t faced on this non-intoxicating beverage. [xx(]

I believe there are also differing jurisdictions for bars that sell only 3.2 beer (I believe OTC) and bars that sell liquor, wine, and high-point beer (ABLE commission).  So long as restaurants under ABLE jurisdiction sell more than 50% (might be 60%, been awhile since I checked) in food, all ages are welcome in the restaurant, only over 21 in the restricted bar area.  If the majority of the business is alcohol, no one under the age of 21 is allowed in the building.

For some odd reason people over 18 and under 21 are allowed into 3.2 beer bars.  I have no idea why that is, but it's a recipe for disaster and has happened over and over again.  There might have been a pretty strong lobby for college town bars, who knows?

For the most part, there are responsible restaurant and bar owners out there.  However, there are some who don't care at all about the safety of their patrons nor that of the general public.  I take it somewhat personal.

My brother was killed six years ago by a drunk driver.  The person who hit him arrived at a bar around 5:30 on a weeknight with a companion, they were served five pitchers of beer in the ensuing hour and a half- between two people.  They were asked to leave when they got rowdy.  

The witness statement from the bartender said she helped the driver into her vehicle.  Less than five minutes later four lives were snuffed out.  

All they had to do was call the cops or call a cab.  They made the poor decision to A) serve people who by some accounts were already intoxicated, and B) allow someone who can't even walk straight to their car to drive off instead of calling a cab.

Having worked for a vendor who had business dealings with Kitchell in the past and being an infrequent visitor to his various clubs over the years, my opinion is that he falls into the group of bar owners that doesn't care about anything but making money.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

Maybe I missed it, but on top of the fact the club was letting underaged people in, why does a mother let her 15yr old go club-hopping at 2am?

Some parents like to use nightclubs for babysitters, don't ya know? [:O]

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Hawkins



There I said it, but downtown still = slightly higher risk in my book.

Saying downtown is more dangerous than the rest of the city is a broad stroke.  At times when Kitchell has been out of business down there, it stays pretty quiet.  Any of the clubs which are only 21 and over stay pretty docile for the most part.

Catering to an immature crowd is nothing but trouble waiting to happen.

Without trying to sound racist, or bigoted about age (I'm sure someone will take me to task for it) but when they play rap and hip-hop and allow people under 21 in, they are attracting a dangerous crowd.  Clubs like this are a small minority of the downtown night life.