will health care bill affect November elections?

[nathanm]

My turn to play semantics.  I don't believe an entrepreneur would refuse to expand because of high taxes either.  I believe they refuse to expand because they didn't have the money to expand due to high taxes.  They also refuse to expand due to poor economic forecasts, the most probable reason, probably caused by high taxes.

Unless the tax rate is 100%, there is money to expand, provided collateral and a sound business plan.

If high taxes were the cause of economic problems, the Euro wouldn't be worth a buck forty and the financial crisis would never have happened. Most often, economic issues are caused by bubbles, liquidity crises, or both. Except at the extreme ends of the spectrum, taxes play little part in any of those.

[Red Arrow]

Unless the tax rate is 100%, there is money to expand, provided collateral and a sound business plan.

If high taxes were the cause of economic problems, the Euro wouldn't be worth a buck forty and the financial crisis would never have happened. Most often, economic issues are caused by bubbles, liquidity crises, or both. Except at the extreme ends of the spectrum, taxes play little part in any of those.

Depends on how much money is enough.

Edit:
A business plan that works with cash on hand may not generate enough cash flow occasionally to make payments on a loan.

[Gaspar]

Unless the tax rate is 100%, there is money to expand, provided collateral and a sound business plan.

If high taxes were the cause of economic problems, the Euro wouldn't be worth a buck forty and the financial crisis would never have happened. Most often, economic issues are caused by bubbles, liquidity crises, or both. Except at the extreme ends of the spectrum, taxes play little part in any of those.

LOL.
Historically speaking (for what that's worth) people have gone to war over taxation, or have the libs reinterpreted that too?

[Conan71]

Unless the tax rate is 100%, there is money to expand, provided collateral and a sound business plan.

If high taxes were the cause of economic problems, the Euro wouldn't be worth a buck forty and the financial crisis would never have happened. Most often, economic issues are caused by bubbles, liquidity crises, or both. Except at the extreme ends of the spectrum, taxes play little part in any of those.

Huh?  The Euro being worth $1.40 (actually about $1.33 today) has incredibly little to do with high taxation.  Things like money supply, reserve requirements, inflation, and trade demand are what most impact a currency.  Taxes only factor into that equation as they relate to ancillary inflationary pressures.

You also neglect a very, very important factor which is starting to get touched on in this discussion by Red Arrow and Gaspar: the psychological impact of high taxes, impending regulations, impending legislation (like health care reform), and lethargic economic forecasts.

Any of those issues can and do cause businesses and individuals to begin to hoard money and assets, begin to opt out of a market, or move operations to areas where they can operate with lower costs.  Regardless of whether or not their fears of the effects of health care reform, higher taxes, new industry regulations, or impending tanking of the economy are justified or irrational, the net effect is the same: they slow down or quit spending the money that keeps the economy moving.

Some of your assumptions almost sound as if the economy and business exist in a vacuum.

[heironymouspasparagus]

FOTD
Remember the cause of all that turmoil??  A lot of it was directly related to the Federal bail out of the Savings and Loans.  (See the trend here?  Bail out the billionaires, let the pee-ons twist in the breeze?)

That is one of the places where the Bush family (Neal) got hundreds of millions for helping to run the S & L's into the ground.

There were some VERY expensive properties in downtown Tulsa that sold for dollars through that.  Not pennies on the dollar... dollars.  Like 50, 100, or even a couple hundred dollars.  Through HUD.  To their "good ole' boy" buddies around town.

[fotd]

They may have gotten them at a ridiculous discount but the fact remains most new owners continued to lose on what they thought was a steal. 

The taxpayer, Rooney and Kaiser are currently resurrecting downtown. Long strange haul.

But before Reagan, those do dah daze in Tee town were something else...

[Red Arrow]

And I guess I just flat out missed your praises for the largest tax cut in the history of the world.  Anywhere.  Anytime.  You know, that $288 billion cut last year that we got with the Obama stimulus package.  Remember that one?

Probably more to the point, does anyone really think there won't have to be tax hikes in the future??  Really??

I got mine.  Tax hike that is.  My Federal (and State) Income Taxes both were higher for 2009 than 2008.  I can guarantee that I don't  make anywhere near $250,000/yr (meaning my income is lower, not higher than $250.000/yr).

[heironymouspasparagus]

Because you made more.  Congratulations on your success in your career.  I would love nothing better than if my tax bill doubled every year.  Because that means I would be doing much better every year.  (Are they hiring at your company - wouldn't mind contributing to a company that gives raises.)

[Red Arrow]

Because you made more. 

You don't know that.  I could have lost some deductions or any number of things.

The point is:

My taxes went up when they were promised to go down.  Someone else on here complains about that all the time from a previous administration.

[Hoss]

You don't know that.  I could have lost some deductions or any number of things.

The point is:

My taxes went up when they were promised to go down.  Someone else on here complains about that all the time from a previous administration.

Yet you choose not to elaborate, so how can we know that your taxes, relative to your income, went up or down.

So, did they?

[Red Arrow]

Yet you choose not to elaborate, so how can we know that your taxes, relative to your income, went up or down.

So, did they?

You're right, I choose not to elaborate.  I make a lot less than $250,000/yr and my taxes went up.  That is enough.

[Hoss]

You're right, I choose not to elaborate.  I make a lot less than $250,000/yr and my taxes went up.  That is enough.

Not surprising you won't divulge.

I'll tell you right now I didn't receive any raise this last tax year and my taxes went down.  Not only that, my refund was about $300 more than last year (up about 20 percent).

[Red Arrow]

Not surprising you won't divulge.

I'll tell you right now I didn't receive any raise this last tax year and my taxes went down.  Not only that, my refund was about $300 more than last year (up about 20 percent).

You can adjust your refund by the amount you have your employer withhold or by the amount you pay on quarterly estimated payments.  It's not necessarily related to whether your taxes went up or down.

Other than that, I was testing the waters.  It seems that when Reagan lowered taxes, it didn't matter whether or not "your" taxable income went up.  It only mattered that "your" taxes went up.  When a democratic president promises that "your" taxes won't go up, everyone asks if "you" made more money.

[Hoss]

You can adjust your refund by the amount you have your employer withhold or by the amount you pay on quarterly estimated payments.  It's not necessarily related to whether your taxes went up or down.

Other than that, I was testing the waters.  It seems that when Reagan lowered taxes, it didn't matter whether or not "your" taxable income went up.  It only mattered that "your" taxes went up.  When a democratic president promises that "your" taxes won't go up, everyone asks if "you" made more money.

That's true, but I didn't make any changes to my withholding; exemptions or otherwise.  I'm trying to establish a baseline.  So to say that your taxes went up, but also inferring that you changed your withholding status or other tax deductions/adjustments muddies the water.

[Red Arrow]

So to say that your taxes went up, but also inferring that you changed your withholding status or other tax deductions/adjustments muddies the water.

Intentional.  I'm trying to compare responses to changes in individual taxes resulting from Reagan tax cuts vs. Obama's.