And what of the Old Ball Park?

[RecycleMichael]

We had our company summer training party at the ballpark on Monday night. The Drillers do a great job of those pre-game picnics.

We had 117 people in, eating hamburgers, hotdogs, and ice cream in about ten minutes. The Drillers donated some door prizes to us for lucky numbers (a couple of bobbleheads, some jerseys and some really nice blankets).

The stands were pretty bare because the temperature was about 3,000 degrees. After the sun went down, a few more people showed up.

[TURobY]

We could bury the old ball park, and in 50 years dig it back up...

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

The old Ballpark is the ideal size for an OUTDOOR MULTI PURPOSE Facility, which Tulsa lacks.  

In Texas the majority of government owned venues and facilities are called MPEC Centers which stands for Multi Purpose Event Centers.  Everyone equally pays for these structures and their maintenance, but many are built with just one purpose in mind.  Such as naming a building at the Fairgrouds the Live Stock Arena, when that building could of been an MPEC Arena.  

The Old Ballpark would be ideal for, in addition to many other configurations if left convertible:

* Micro Sprint Car Racing
* Motorcycle Racing  
* ATV Racing
* Motocross
* Shorttrack
* Freestyle Events
* Speedway Motorcycle Racing

Which is exactly why it should be moved downtown instead of building a new one, especially with the SemRon private donation shortfall.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by AMP

The old Ballpark is the ideal size for an OUTDOOR MULTI PURPOSE Facility, which Tulsa lacks.  

In Texas the majority of government owned venues and facilities are called MPEC Centers which stands for Multi Purpose Event Centers.  Everyone equally pays for these structures and their maintenance, but many are built with just one purpose in mind.  Such as naming a building at the Fairgrouds the Live Stock Arena, when that building could of been an MPEC Arena.  

The Old Ballpark would be ideal for, in addition to many other configurations if left convertible:

* Micro Sprint Car Racing
* Motorcycle Racing  
* ATV Racing
* Motocross
* Shorttrack
* Freestyle Events
* Speedway Motorcycle Racing

Which is exactly why it should be moved downtown instead of building a new one, especially with the SemRon private donation shortfall.

Since you missed the Memo, the drillers want a new stadium not a new location. We're not just wanting to switch mobile home parks here.

[TheArtist]

Would rather not have even more noise downtown. Silence the trains, then add noisy cars?  Build the new stadium then also perhaps move the old ballpark north of Downtown by the Fin Tube property. Or if possible reconfigure the seating, scoreboard etc. for a soccer stadium in that area north of OSU Tulsa with some additional soccer fields around it. I am sure there is some place we could put the old stadium where it would have synergies with other ballfields or be repurposed as a soccer stadium by other soccer fields. Would be good to have it next to similarly used venues so that it is used more often. Whether at the fairgrounds for races or some place else for other sports.

[mrB]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by AMP

The old Ballpark is the ideal size for an OUTDOOR MULTI PURPOSE Facility, which Tulsa lacks.  

In Texas the majority of government owned venues and facilities are called MPEC Centers which stands for Multi Purpose Event Centers.  Everyone equally pays for these structures and their maintenance, but many are built with just one purpose in mind.  Such as naming a building at the Fairgrouds the Live Stock Arena, when that building could of been an MPEC Arena.  

The Old Ballpark would be ideal for, in addition to many other configurations if left convertible:

* Micro Sprint Car Racing
* Motorcycle Racing  
* ATV Racing
* Motocross
* Shorttrack
* Freestyle Events
* Speedway Motorcycle Racing

Which is exactly why it should be moved downtown instead of building a new one, especially with the SemRon private donation shortfall.

Since you missed the Memo, the drillers want a new stadium not a new location. We're not just wanting to switch mobile home parks here.

Go figure, AMP would want to use the 'OLD' stadium to drive something with a motor on it round 'n' round! Motorsports will never ever be allowed in an open venue within Tulsa city limits on a regular basis. There's tracks, round/oval/straight, outside the city now.

The thread is what of the Old Ball Park? Not, Let's move the Old Ball Park?

It's location would be ideal to promote County [County Fairgrounds, duh] and regional YOUTH sports. Neutral field for playoffs. Playing under the lights? Boosters raising money in the concession stands. Field of dream stuff for kids to desire and strive for!

Promote kids baseball/softball/soccer in Tulsa and get the young families back from the 'burbs!

And maybe someday, there'll be a AMP Jr. waxing nostalgic about playing pee wee baseball under the lights in that stadium at 15th & Yale when we paid $3.99/gal to drive cars that actually rolled on the streets instead of flying in the air!

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

Oh, and I also know of a league that would LOVE to have a team in Tulsa.... USL1 seems to be using the Huey Lewis & the News guide to expansion.... "Tulsa... Austin... Oklahoma City....."  []

http://theoffsiderules.blogspot.com/2008/05/usl-open-to-resusitating-tulsa-nasl.html


...you'd think the guy would at least have the decency to contact me.... go figure...

Regardless, USL1 wants to be in Tulsa, would like to make an announcement in the next month (I'm betting on OKC/Edmond playing at Wantland)... and would prefer to use the Roughnecks' name for a Tulsa team to go with the Tampa Bay Rowdies.... they're open to suggestions.... so somebody (anybody) important with lotsa money please contact them so I can finally get taken off their email list.... []

quote:Dear USL Franchise Prospect,

USL has been having a tremendous 2008 season!  So far 987 games have been played, 3,075 goals scored, and nearly 950,000 fans watching.  121 games to go until we begin preperations for the 2009 season.  

We hope to bring the USL excitement to your city or town in 2009 or 2010. If you are interested in applying for a USL expansion franchise with the USL First Division, USL Second Division, USL Premier Development League, or USL W-League, please visit:

http://www.uslfranchising.com  
username: umbro
password:  1924

I'm sure I'm breaking rules by giving the readers of TulsaNow forum the username and pw, but hey, what are they gonna do?  Sue me?!?

Login, look at the International Partnerships Presentation You'll see the basic sales pitch first, scroll to page 57 for operating expenses, then page 58 for Austin's new team--- then scroll to page 64, then to page 65 (Omaha) and then page 66 (Okla. City)...

It'd be nice if Tulsa at least had its own page-- hint, hint....

BTW, TU hasn't had a baseball team since old Oiler Park collapsed-- when I was a kid, I remember going to old Oiler Park to see TU versus OU... they added men's soccer in 1980? or 1981?..... another bit of Bob-Costas-esque trivia rattling around in my brain... the 1985 Tulsa Roughnecks played a short season even after the league they played in collapsed and cancelled their season..... they played an exhibition schedule of 7-games..... at Driller Park...

god I'm old.... but then again, so's Beth Rengal, Chris Lincoln, and Linda Soundtrak.... [:I]

Ok, I looked at your link.  I noticed Tulsa was listed on page 64-- "Prime Market Samples."  Drillers Stadium seems favorable for a USL-1 team, given that the seating capacity is around 10,000.  On another note, where does TU play soccer?  I'm assuming it's a small stadium on campus.  Any chance of possible upgrade?  Could some of the Drillers Stadium grandstands be installed at TU?  To me, TU's location in the city is more conducive to an overall positive fan experience than the fairgrounds.

If a soccer team did locate at the old(present) Drillers Stadium, I would think some of the area fronting 15th St. could be used for retail, restaurant, or hotel space, etc.  Surely it could only help the State Fair for some existing infrastructure to be in place on the fairgrounds, other than the nearby big-box stores.

Just my two cents...

[AMP]

Not true that there are no outdoor
racetracks located in Tulsa.  I would
like to see a vote of the people in Tulsa regarding funding for a multi purpose
racing facility in Tulsa or in the
County. I bet there would at least be
a hell of alot more than 18% turnout for that project.  

Actually there are several Racetracks
in the Tulsa City limits that set the
stage, and have been for many years.  

The Dragstrip, Southwest Raceway, Inc.,
which became Tulsa International Raceway and is known today as Tulsa Raceway Park
is located on Highway 169 near Pine
street is one of the largest, and loudest
in the city.  Prior to that location,
dragracing was held at the
Tulsa Downtown Airpark just north
of 36th street at Osage Drive.
Tulsa Raceway Park


Tulsa Hosted the NHRA World FINALS in 1965 through 1968!





Then there is the Tulsa Quarter Midget Association's track located at Nety Park on north Yale.

The Tulsa Quarter Midget Track, which was built in the early 1950s, has stood the test of time and has remained in the same location since it was built.  It is located at 1901 North Yale, just North of Pine.

50th Anniversary Photos: Tulsa Quarter Midget Association

There is also Junior Raceway Park
5920 West 51st South Tulsa, OK


Road Course at JRP Raceway


1/4 Mile Asphalt Oval at JRP Raceway

JRP Speedway

There is the Tulsa Kart Club Racetrack
2715 N Madison Ave, Tulsa

There is Tulsa Motocross Raceway
9602 E Mohawk Blvd, Tulsa, OK
Tulsa Motocross Raceway

Then there is Port City Raceway
15625 E Pine St - Tulsa, OK
Port City Raceway

The original Tulsa Speedway, was downtown at the old Tulsa Fairgrounds near where the Home Depot is today.
 
It then moved to the New Tulsa Fairgrounds
at 21st and Yale.  The track
at the Fairgrounds, which was
originally built and paid for by the
Motorsports Industry, ticket buyers,
sponsors and advertisers.

Photos that have 1926
dating from the Beryl Ford collection held
by the Tulsa Historical Society show there
were not houses east or south of the
racetrack. The paved intersection of
21st and Yale ended in dirt roads in
both the east and north directions,
however the racetrack was going strong
at that time.

The Art Deco Grandstands were very large,
don't have attendance figuers from that
era, but based on the size of the stands,
one would think they had a decent crowd.  
Later the wooden grandstands burned down.
They were replaced with the Shoe Warehouse Exibition building, and the entrance to the Speedway was through the center of that building where the concessions are
today. Parking for the races was on the
west side where the midway for the Fair is today.    

Then the track was re-designed and re-built
as Tulsa Speedway #3, a 5/8s mile high speed wide full tilt boogie dirttrack.  The design included moving tons of dirt to form a bowl shape to create a noise barrier to help hold the noise inside the bowl.  Thus the raised dirt wall on the Yale side.  Paul Prestige
with the Tulsa World newspaper wrote an article about the design which included noise reduction.  That is the track that is
presently at the Fairgrounds  

Tulsa Speedway was evicted by fiat from the Fairgrounds and re-located at the 66th
Street North exit and Hwy 75 near Harvard avenue. That is Tulsa Speedway #4 which
is still there today.
3900 E 66th St N
Tulsa, OK 74101


Tulsa Speedway #1 at the Fairgrounds.  
Lower left hand corner is the Pavillion.
This is the Art Deco Grandstands.  Note
where the Ballpark is located, that was
the Oilers Park not the Drillers Park.


This was the racetrack located in downtown Tulsa at the Tulsa Fairgrounds.


Tulsa Speedway #1 after the stands burned down.

Tulsa Speedway #1 Note there are no homes on the south side of 21st Street.

The Tulsa County Fair Board allowed Emmett Hahn to produce up to 8 races at the 5/8 mile track on the Fairgrounds.  Two where held after the metal fence was installed around the track.  Both were USAC Weld Racing Silver Crown events. Both were 100 laps and called the Tulsa 100.  

Bud Kaeding Scores First USAC Silver Crown Win
Yeley Clinches - By Dick Jordan, 09/14/03

Tulsa, OK. ...Bud Kaeding of Campbell, Calif. recorded his initial USAC Weld Racing Silver Crown race victory in Sunday's O'Reilly "Tulsa 100" at the Tulsa Fairgrounds Motorplex in Tulsa, Okla. Kaeding was leading when the race was halted for the second time due to track conditions and checkered flagged after 77 of the scheduled 100 laps. The race had been halted 24 laps earlier for track conditions and maintenance. J.J. Yeley finished second and emerged with a 72-point lead in the series standings with only 66 available in the series finale October 10-11 at Syracuse, N.Y. "I had the dominant car today," admitted a happy Kaeding in victory lane. "We gambled with softer tires at the start and I was worried about them in the later laps but we never got to where I had to abuse them.

We were lucky when the red came out at lap 53 because I had broken a shock and we were able to fix that. It's been a while since I've run these cars on dirt and we were really confident, so I don't think things would have changed if we'd run the full 100."

[TheArtist]

Those racetracks may be "in the city". But they are no where near where I would live, nor would I allow one to be near me. And that from someone who lived right next to I44 lol. We want downtown to be an Urban Neighborhood, less noise richocheting of skyscrapers the better. The the occasional loud concert or game is enough. Motoracing downtown, is pushing it.

[AMP]

Good thing folks in Indianapolis, Indiana;
Daytona Beach, Florida; Knoxville, Iowa
and other cities that love the money
brought in from the motorsports industry
don't think that way, or we would not
have the Indy 500, Knoxville Nationals
Daytona 500, and other traditional races.

Always been interesting to me that the
Tulsa Speedway at the Fairgrounds
was in existence long before the houses
were built there and had over
14,000 ticket holders on most Saturday nights.

So, the racing should be located where? And
what part of the Fairgrounds
"Master Plan" included the eviction of the
Tulsa Speedway that was there
long before other structures?

Bells was not the first business that was a
long term tenant, that lots of Tulsans
enjoyed, to be evicted from the
Fairgrounds.

[AMP]

"Promote kids baseball/softball/soccer in Tulsa and get the young families back from the 'burbs!"

Interesting how quickly folks forget about attempts that fail.  Baseball/Softball thing has already been tried at the Fairgrounds. After the Board evicted Stanly Durrett and Tulsa Speedway they had a man from Okmulgee bring in Softball to the infield of the racetrack.  They built around 18 ball fileds with backstops, planted grass, built dugouts, installed lights. This was before the Horse people got that facility.  Fairgrounds thought the softball was going to be the salvation.  It was quiet, easy to maintain, and were told that teams from all over the US would come for tournaments there due to the central location.  At one meeting we were told all the stores surrounding the Fairgrounds would be opening up selling athlethic equipment, bats, balls, gloves, uniforms.  Those folks had 18 ball fields to work with.  Success in that venture didn't happen then, doubt if it would today.  But who knows?  

Not sure if the Softball deal drew more or less than the Horse Races draw today.  I do know the Modified and Super Modified races drew upwards of 13,000 on Saturday nights at Tulsa Speedway at the Fairgrounds prior to their eviction.  

One would think there was a good reason, both financially and to please the taxpayer constituents, to of allowed the Racetrack to occupy that much space at the Fairgrounds.

I don't have the stats on the numbers of stick and ball sports, however I do have the stats on the number of ATVs sold in Oklahoma last year.  Over 60,000 ATVs were sold in 2007.  Not sure how many baseball bats, footballs, basketballs or horses were sold in Oklahoma that year.

One may see the growth that many Tulsa young families are into involving progressive modern powersports such as Micro Racing, Motocross, ATV racing cross country and other forms,  based on the numbers of tracks located in Oklahoma.  

Youth classes are the largest in most forms of sportsman powersports today.  Micro Sprint Car Track in Tulsa averages 120-150 participants per night during their racing season.  Majority of the participants are are youth, with some in their 20s and 30s.  Motorcycle Road Racing in this area averages 600 participants on a given weekend, MX is around 450, Dirttrack ATV and Motorcycle is around 300, karting is around 200.  

Should powersports be allowed in schools, and run at the school stadiums with school funding and school teams, one would most likely see those numbers grow very quickly.  

Competitive competition in racing has constantly brought on new innovative advancements in safety and better transportation devices.  

The state of Indiana and the state of Kansas are two progressive areas that have addressed the issue of motorsports and poured millions of tax dollars into their facilities and education programs.  Indiana has The Business of Motorsports curriculum in their schools and colleges.  Kansas revived Heartland Park and made it one of the premier tracks for NHRA in the nation.  SCCA's corporate headquarters is located there in Topeka, Kansas.  

"State Rep. Ann Mah waited her turn to ride and talked about how the project gives Topekans another reason to feel good about their city while putting Heartland Park on the fast track to bringing millions of additional dollars each year into the local economy."

"Mah, D-Topeka, said she expects Kansas to become "the racing heart of the nation" because of the presence of Heartland Park and Wyandotte County's Kansas Speedway."

http://www.indianamotorsports.gov/Default.aspx?tabid=77

http://hpt.com/store/catalog/

[AMP]

I do have the Economic Impact to Tulsa from one week of motorsports stats.

Quote from the Tulsa World

Hear that earth-rattling roar?

"That's the sound of an estimated $12 million pushing the throttle on Tulsa's economy, thanks to the Chili Bowl."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=070110_Ne_A9_Chili2458

[AMP]

Economic Impact Study of Motorsports
http://www.belkcollege.uncc.edu/news/Motorsports%20Report%2010-05-04.pdf

For the bean counter folks to digest ....

[http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?id=12473

"The motorsports industry is expected to grow at a rapid pace. The USA Motorsport Report estimates that the national value of motorsports in the United States will grow from $16.5 billion in 2002 to $22 billion in 2007, a 33 percent increase. Locally, those interviewed project a growth rate of 37 percent over the next five years."

"This report is a follow-up to the study Connaughton and Madsen conducted in 2004, which found that motorsports generated $5 billion  of economic impact on the North Carolina economy in 2003. In addition, the industry supported over 24,000 high quality jobs."

http://www.belkcollege.uncc.edu/default.asp?id=66&objId=10

[dbacks fan]

Hopefully, Drillers Stadium will not suffer the fate thatCompadre Stadium did in Chandler AZ. But this shows the fickle nature of spring training and what is now one-upsmanship in spring traing facilities. There are several that any AA or AAA teams would love to call home.Cactus League

But some of these may fall to the way side as clubs want bigger better facilities, and communities are willing to help finance them as more move from Florida to Arizona.

I think it would be great for Drillers Stadium to attract College World Series regional, Softball World series regional, high school state championship, and MLS Soccer. It's a great facility and it would be a loss to Tulsa if it jst sat dormant, or the Murhpy's got it turned into a parking lot.

I have to agree with AMP that at it's prime the Tulsa Speedway in the 70's and 80's was one of the best dirt tracks in the region, and alot of NASCAR, USAC, World of Outlaws drivers cut there teeth there, just as I can remember watching Sammy Sosa, Bobby Valentine, and many others make there way into the majors at Driller Stadium.

[AMP]

If it turns out like OKC's Fairgrounds, the old ballpark will end up being a parking lot.  

Oiler Park didn't last long after the structual problems there. I always liked that park and the location, eaiser to park on each side less walking distance.

Perhaps Sally Bell or Karen Keith will have a different vision other than another parking lot, regarding phase 5 of the "Master Plan"

At least build an attraction in the center of one of those giant lots so we don't have to walk the entire distance when arriving late.