And what of the Old Ball Park?

[RecycleMichael]

I think that corner would be a wonderful place for a really big, mid-priced hotel. The fairgrounds brings in so many out-of-towners and the only option is a Micro-tel.

Those horse owners have a lot of money. Build some nice hotel with a decent restaurant and everybody wins.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

I think that corner would be a wonderful place for a really big, mid-priced hotel. The fairgrounds brings in so many out-of-towners and the only option is a Micro-tel.

Those horse owners have a lot of money. Build some nice hotel with a decent restaurant and everybody wins.

Here's a money saver Idea.

Don't spend $30 million of taxpayer money building a new stadium downtown.

Don't fall for Lamson's blackmail of:

We're moving to Jenks.

It's a ploy.

Jenks has a population of 15,000.  

WHERE is their tax base to build a $30 million stadium?

It doesn't exist.

Use new Ad Valorem taxes?

Jenks School District already has the highest in the entire state.

Another SALES tax?  Have to be a BIG one to collect $30 million with their sales tax base.

Tulsans are being conned.

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear


Here's a money saver Idea.

Don't spend $30 million of taxpayer money building a new stadium downtown.

Don't fall for Lamson's blackmail of:

We're moving to Jenks.

It's a ploy.

Jenks has a population of 15,000.  

WHERE is their tax base to build a $30 million stadium?

It doesn't exist.

Use new Ad Valorem taxes?

Jenks School District already has the highest in the entire state.

Another SALES tax?  Have to be a BIG one to collect $30 million with their sales tax base.

Tulsans are being conned.

[carltonplace]

FB, a private investor was going to build the Driller's stadium in Jenks in the new development that is currently breaking ground. Jenks provided a TIF but other than that were not going to fund its construction.

If we want developement downtown we have to coax it. Developers are just beginning to see DT and the surrounding areas as places with potential. DT has a lot of problems that developers don't have to deal with out in the burbs or in south Tulsa like: plenty of room for oceans of surface parking, you can build "out" instead of "up", and admittedly downtown has some perception problems the burbs don't have yet (yet).

Currently the burbs have better demographics than downtown does, but if we can attract people to live and/or play downtown that will change.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

FB, a private investor was going to build the Driller's stadium in Jenks in the new development that is currently breaking ground. Jenks provided a TIF but other than that were not going to fund its construction.

If we want developement downtown we have to coax it. Developers are just beginning to see DT and the surrounding areas as places with potential. DT has a lot of problems that developers don't have to deal with out in the burbs or in south Tulsa like: plenty of room for oceans of surface parking, you can build "out" instead of "up", and admittedly downtown has some perception problems the burbs don't have yet (yet).

Currently the burbs have better demographics than downtown does, but if we can attract people to live and/or play downtown that will change.

A tidal wave of change in the living, shopping and working habits of Americans has recently occured; it's called $4.00 per gallon gasoline.

The 60 year trend of suburban and ex-urban sprawl was fueled by:

Inexpensive fuel, and inexpensive farm land.  Inexpensive for the developers.  Expensive for the taxpayers funding new highways and infrastructure.

Downtown offices and down housing, and close-in in-fill development look much better now than commuting from Coweta or Claremore at $4.00 per gallon.

Much.

[carltonplace]

I hope you are correct, but the recent poll in the TW showed that people:
1. Are upset and burdened by the price of fuel
2. Are not interested/able to change their driving habits
3. Are not willing/able to look at alternate transportation
4. Are not willing/able to explore alternate technologies.

If this poll is a true slice of Oklahoma public opinion (I hope not) then the only change people want is for the price of gasoline to go back down to pre-Iraq levels as unlikely as that possibility is.

[cannon_fodder]

For the sake of the gods, let it go.  You haven't raised a new point or prudently defended an existing one in about a month.  

It's all a scam, they won't move, Manhattan Construction needs the $30mil to stay afloat, the old guard will make a killing off of this, you can't afford the $10 a month in new taxes, there isn't anything to do in the area, there is too much crime, there's no parking downtown, no one will go to baseball games, we can't afford it, it's too close to a highway, no one likes baseball, 6000 seats isn't enough for baseball,
blah blah blah.

Plenty of reasons.  Nothing to back most of it up.

Please, PLEASE don't sink this thread.  Troll back to the other one that is some 8 pages of dribble long.  Lets keep this thread on the "what of the old ball park" topic.

[carltonplace]

Sorry for feeding the bear

[mrB]

And what of the Old Ball Park?

• It would be great to see TU with baseball at the Fairgrounds ballpark.


• Use it for High School baseball playoffs!


• Is ORU's ballpark used for High School baseball?

And what of the Horse Track?

• It would be great to see Trotter Horse Races.


• Regional [COUNTY?] HS Soccer Complex


• Regional [COUNTY?] HS Softball Complex


• Regional [COUNTY?] HS Track and Field Complex


• Regional [COUNTY?] Youth [PEE WEE] Soccer Complex


• Regional [COUNTY?] Youth [PEE WEE] Softball Complex


• Regional [COUNTY?] Youth [PEE WEE] Track and Field Complex


• Regional [COUNTY?] Youth [PEE WEE] Football Complex

[Sangria]

If they build this new stadium people will go to a few games while it is new and different.

Then it will go back to the same 6 people who go to the games now. They can't even give the tickets away - and that is the truth. Every time they have a Tulsa Drillers story on TV and show the stands they are pretty much empty.(I have noticed since they have proposed the new stadium the media no longer shows the "cheering crowd" in the stands. Hmmmm.....

The exception is when they host the Bedlum game. That game it's packed. But that is a once a year thing.

If the stadium is built they are going to have to find a way to fill it.

They built the new arena and they are going to have to come up with a way to pay for the maintenance - when they build this ball park they are going to have to find a way to pay for it's maintenance too.

I hope both things are a success even after the new wears off. But the cost to opperate them is going to be much more than what they bring in and someone has to pay for it....THAT is reality.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Sangria

If they build this new stadium people will go to a few games while it is new and different.

Then it will go back to the same 6 people who go to the games now. They can't even give the tickets away - and that is the truth. Every time they have a Tulsa Drillers story on TV and show the stands they are pretty much empty.(I have noticed since they have proposed the new stadium the media no longer shows the "cheering crowd" in the stands. Hmmmm.....

The exception is when they host the Bedlum game. That game it's packed. But that is a once a year thing.

If the stadium is built they are going to have to find a way to fill it.

They built the new arena and they are going to have to come up with a way to pay for the maintenance - when they build this ball park they are going to have to find a way to pay for it's maintenance too.

I hope both things are a success even after the new wears off. But the cost to opperate them is going to be much more than what they bring in and someone has to pay for it....THAT is reality.

Okie dokie.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Sangria

If they build this new stadium people will go to a few games while it is new and different.

Then it will go back to the same 6 people who go to the games now. They can't even give the tickets away - and that is the truth. Every time they have a Tulsa Drillers story on TV and show the stands they are pretty much empty.(I have noticed since they have proposed the new stadium the media no longer shows the "cheering crowd" in the stands. Hmmmm.....

The exception is when they host the Bedlum game. That game it's packed. But that is a once a year thing.

If the stadium is built they are going to have to find a way to fill it.

They built the new arena and they are going to have to come up with a way to pay for the maintenance - when they build this ball park they are going to have to find a way to pay for it's maintenance too.

I hope both things are a success even after the new wears off. But the cost to opperate them is going to be much more than what they bring in and someone has to pay for it....THAT is reality.

Translation: Sangria doesn't attend baseball games and is speaking from conjecture.

If built, the new ballpark will be successful.  New downtown ballparks show an increase in attendance in 100% of the cases, and not just in the first few years.  OKC just set a new attendance record more than 10 yrs after opening theirs.

People also seem to assume that the arena will operate with a deficit, but in Des Moines (a cit just over half Tulsa's size) the new 16,000 seat arena makes a large profit and actually makes up the shortfall in the city's other event centers.   http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080711/NEWS05/807110382

The question presented here is, what to do with the old ballpark?  I like the idea of moving the stands to a public park like Mohawk.  I'm sure the County is salivating over the vast motel/parking lot possibilities for that corner of Expo Square.

[cannon_fodder]

FYI, the Des Moines center is away from the main entertainment areas and probably not walking distance from the ballpark.  There downtown is about 5 years ahead of ours IMHO.  But ours has more potential and certainly more character.
- - -


Sangria, we currently average around 5,000 people per Driller's game.  That is respectable for e AA club (OKC averages around 7500 for AAA in their new stadium).  Given that every team with a new stadium sees a bump in attendance, it could be that we "average" a sellout (sellout of seats, this park will have a lot of standing room so the big games will make up the difference to average a sellout).

You're notion of "6 people" attending games is clearly hyperbole, but even the notion is incorrect.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Sangria

If they build this new stadium people will go to a few games while it is new and different.

Then it will go back to the same 6 people who go to the games now. They can't even give the tickets away - and that is the truth. Every time they have a Tulsa Drillers story on TV and show the stands they are pretty much empty.(I have noticed since they have proposed the new stadium the media no longer shows the "cheering crowd" in the stands. Hmmmm.....

The exception is when they host the Bedlum game. That game it's packed. But that is a once a year thing.

If the stadium is built they are going to have to find a way to fill it.

They built the new arena and they are going to have to come up with a way to pay for the maintenance - when they build this ball park they are going to have to find a way to pay for it's maintenance too.

I hope both things are a success even after the new wears off. But the cost to opperate them is going to be much more than what they bring in and someone has to pay for it....THAT is reality.

I believe it was stated before that the lease agreement tags the lessee with all maintenance.

[AMP]

The old Ballpark is the ideal size for an OUTDOOR MULTI PURPOSE Facility, which Tulsa lacks.  

In Texas the majority of government owned venues and facilities are called MPEC Centers which stands for Multi Purpose Event Centers.  Everyone equally pays for these structures and their maintenance, but many are built with just one purpose in mind.  Such as naming a building at the Fairgrouds the Live Stock Arena, when that building could of been an MPEC Arena.  

The Old Ballpark would be ideal for, in addition to many other configurations if left convertible:

* Micro Sprint Car Racing
* Motorcycle Racing  
* ATV Racing
* Motocross
* Shorttrack
* Freestyle Events
* Speedway Motorcycle Racing