Mileage on Ethanol

[waterboy]

There has been some discussion on these threads about the reduced mileage of ethanol tainted fuel. I thought I would give you some real life numbers from my route. I drive a late model Toyota Corolla daily about 60% hiway and 40% stop and go with a/c on. I fill up twice a week and did about 21000 miles in the last 12 months. I fill up at Phillips, Kum/Go and QT. I admit, I drive the car hard.

Lately I've noticed they have 10% ethanol stickers on the pumps. The results are that it has made no difference in mileage. No matter where I fill up, no matter what the content of ethanol this little car has averaged 30 mpg consistently. That also is corroborated by the other 2dozen drivers in our fleet. Only when the air filter needed changed did it drop to 26mpg.

So, even though I expected a difference, there was none. Just wanted to give some real life results.

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

There has been some discussion on these threads about the reduced mileage of ethanol tainted fuel. I thought I would give you some real life numbers from my route. I drive a late model Toyota Corolla daily about 60% hiway and 40% stop and go with a/c on. I fill up twice a week and did about 21000 miles in the last 12 months. I fill up at Phillips, Kum/Go and QT. I admit, I drive the car hard.

Lately I've noticed they have 10% ethanol stickers on the pumps. The results are that it has made no difference in mileage. No matter where I fill up, no matter what the content of ethanol this little car has averaged 30 mpg consistently. That also is corroborated by the other 2dozen drivers in our fleet. Only when the air filter needed changed did it drop to 26mpg.

So, even though I expected a difference, there was none. Just wanted to give some real life results.

It could be that all the gasoline you used had ethanol in it, only the pumps did not have the stickers on them that would explain the same mileage. I have heard that they blend ethanol in just about all gasoline now. Basic Science 101 says ethanol/alcohol has less BTU's than gasoline. There's less "bang" per gallon in ethanol. Perhaps if you ran 100 percent gasoline you'd have got 35 miles per gallon, this is just my guess. I have noticed on my old heap that with ethanol fuel  it has less power. Ethanol also makes more carbon inside the engine. I live in Ohio so our laws are not exactly like that of Oklahmoa's as for gasoline standards and requirements.

[Hoss]

I know for a fact my vehicles got reduced gas mileage pre-ethanol compared to post ethanol.  To the tune of about 8 percent.

[zstyles]

QT and most other gas stations have been putting a blend in the gas for over a year now..so you would not have noticed any difference because you were already getting lousy gas mileage...

[Jeepguy]

quote:Originally posted by zstyles

QT and most other gas stations have been putting a blend in the gas for over a year now..so you would not have noticed any difference because you were already getting lousy gas mileage...

x2, the ethanol sticker law went into effect July 1. Try Sinclair or Shell gas. My Jeep went from high 13's to low 15's by switching over.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I live in Ohio so our laws are not exactly like that of Oklahmoa's as for gasoline standards and requirements.

Yes, many stations in Ohio sell E85 which you don't find in Oklahoma and many cities in Ohio like Cleveland are E10 exclusively.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I live in Ohio so our laws are not exactly like that of Oklahmoa's as for gasoline standards and requirements.

Yes, many stations in Ohio sell E85 which you don't find in Oklahoma and many cities in Ohio like Cleveland are E10 exclusively.

There are two stations in the metro that carry E85.  A Kum N Go in Owasso and a Shell station in Glenpool.  I have a FlexFuel vehicle, but haven't tried it yet.

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by zstyles

QT and most other gas stations have been putting a blend in the gas for over a year now..so you would not have noticed any difference because you were already getting lousy gas mileage...

That is exactly what I understand. They no longer have to put stickers on the pump to tell you it's a blended gasoline, so you go to a pump without the stickers and fuel up  thinking  your getting 100% gasoline when it's not. That way people don't notice the mileage drop... E-85 fuel can be more expensive to use than gasoline in those flex~fuel vehicles  it costs a bit less but your mileage and power are way down. Instead of getting 27 miles per gallon on gasoline at $4.00 a gallon your getting only about 19 or 20 miles per gallon on E-85 at $3.75 a gallon.[xx(]

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

quote:Originally posted by zstyles

QT and most other gas stations have been putting a blend in the gas for over a year now..so you would not have noticed any difference because you were already getting lousy gas mileage...

That is exactly what I understand. They no longer have to put stickers on the pump to tell you it's a blended gasoline, so you go to a pump without the stickers and fuel up  thinking  your getting 100% gasoline when it's not. That way people don't notice the mileage drop... E-85 fuel can be more expensive to use than gasoline in those flex~fuel vehicles  it costs a bit less but your mileage and power are way down. Instead of getting 27 miles per gallon on gasoline at $4.00 a gallon your getting only about 19 or 20 miles per gallon on E-85 at $3.75 a gallon.[xx(]

You've got it backwards.  They have been putting E10 in their gas since the middle of last year without disclosing it.  On July 1, the state mandated that it had to be disclosed.

[waterboy]

Phillips, Kum/Go and QT all use ethanol? Who doesn't then? If so how could anyone have noticed any difference in mileage in the last year? And no else on the crew has noticed any difference either. The cars are about 4 years old.

I'm just reporting guys, don't care either way. But, 30mpg for this car under the aforementioned conditions is very good. Its about what the manufacturer rated it when new and it has 151k miles. If there was such a tremendous reduction in power wouldn't the mileage have suffered more?

My guess is that this kind of car simply does not require much in total btu to do its job. Unlike a v-8 or a high performance engine they simply don't need much to work well. I've had other cars (mgb, isuzu trooper) that had similar behaviour. They got the same mileage whether you put in premium or low octane regular.

[zstyles]

There are some places in Tulsa that do have no ethanol..but you have to look for it...usually its about 10 cents more per gallon...

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

Phillips, Kum/Go and QT all use ethanol? Who doesn't then? If so how could anyone have noticed any difference in mileage in the last year? And no else on the crew has noticed any difference either. The cars are about 4 years old.

I'm just reporting guys, don't care either way. But, 30mpg for this car under the aforementioned conditions is very good. Its about what the manufacturer rated it when new and it has 151k miles. If there was such a tremendous reduction in power wouldn't the mileage have suffered more?

My guess is that this kind of car simply does not require much in total btu to do its job. Unlike a v-8 or a high performance engine they simply don't need much to work well. I've had other cars (mgb, isuzu trooper) that had similar behaviour. They got the same mileage whether you put in premium or low octane regular.

The Sinclair at 41st & Union does not have ethanol in it.  Not sure if that's system-wide.  Anyone know about Shell?

I've been filling the bike at QT, I'm getting 45 MPG.  I've also filled at the Sinclair I mentioned and have not noticed a difference, getting 45 or 50 MPG- at those numbers the extra 5 miles seems irrelevant. []  Biggest diff seems to be if I'm riding the expressways or idling at stoplights.  

I did notice a drop about a year ago with my truck of about 9-11%.  I've fueled at QT for years.

[Nick Danger]

The Shell at 101st & Sheridan has stickers on the pumps.

quote:The Sinclair at 41st & Union does not have ethanol in it.  Not sure if that's system-wide.  Anyone know about Shell?

[John Redcorn]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy


My guess is that this kind of car simply does not require much in total btu to do its job. Unlike a v-8 or a high performance engine they simply don't need much to work well. I've had other cars (mgb, isuzu trooper) that had similar behaviour. They got the same mileage whether you put in premium or low octane regular.

You ought to actually notice more of a difference on a 30mpg engine than a 15mpg one.

If a car does not require premium (Just a guess but I'd say an MGB and a Trooper probably do not) putting premium in does nothing except take more $ from you.

My list of no-ethanol stations:

Paradise Bay car wash NW corner 71st/mingo same price as QT

Phillips Food Plaza 12500'ish e 31st. QT price + .10

Tigers Express SE Corner 81st/177th QT Price +.10

Phillips food Mart NW corner 81st/161st QT Price +.10

Oh and I've asked at the Fiesta mart at 21st and garnett and the one at 91st and delaware and they say they do have ethanol. Don't let the sinclair sign fool you. Also saw flying-J mentioned in one of these threads before, I asked there once (mid-may maybe) and they said they just started getting E10. (And they charge more than QT and everyone else for it too!)


From my findings (I drive 600 miles per week) I get about 23mpg on no ethanol and 20 with ethanol. The 10 cents extra at some of those places actually does save money.

[Wilbur]

I have a V6 Mountaineer that went from 23 highway to 19.5 highway and went from 18.5 city to 16.5 city.  Always use Quik Trip gas.