TU, OU among top national colleges, OSU not

[Riverview]

quote:Originally posted by okiebybirth

Oklahoma State ranked 86th on Washinton Monthly college rankings...
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0609.national.html

So OU is not even in the top 120, that's downright pathetic.

But, hey, they've got a good football coach, a president that will hold 3 press conferences if they have a bad call in a football game. How's the schoolin going? Who cares, ask Boren how the team's gonna do this year!

I hate to say it, but OSU has passed OU in so many real ways, and is moving further away. Someone needs to find OU a president like Dr. David J. Schmidly is for OSU. George Nigh? Switzer? Who could reinvent OU?

But seriously, The Student Guide to America's 100 Best College Buys named Oklahoma State as America's Best College Buy less than 10yrs ago.  The Math Department has been recognized by the American Mathematics Association as one of four innovative programs in the nation and has produced five Sloan Fellows, which is equal to that of MIT.  The U.S. National Security Agency has chosen OSU as its newest National Center of Academic Excellence for Information Assurance Education.  OSU's architecture students have won more national and international competitions than any school in the nation except the University of Illinois.  OSU chemical engineering students won first-place for the third time in the 10-year history of the American Institute of Chemical Engineers' National Team Plant Design Competition.  Their MBA program has been ranked among the best in the nation also (on a value added scale).  One could go on and on...

Point being OSU is not having academic problems.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by jne

From Bruno's earlier post:
"rankings are rankings... statistics are statistics... the devil is always in the methodology... one must be careful about how they interpret the data...

however, to imply that boren has skewed numbers to get ou to out rank osu sounds like sour grapes...

FIX OSU-Tulsa NOW!!

Make OSU-Tulsa a real 4 year state university.
That is the key to Tulsa and downtown's future.

And, I hate OSU...
But, It really is that simple.
The best damn "magic bullet" we could ever hope for.

"it costs a fortune to look this trashy"
http://www.stopabductions.com/"

I could not agree more

It's TCC and Langston that are blocking OSU-Tulsa (and OU-Tulsa) from offering lower level classes. Langston has done nothing with the money given them for a Tulsa campus, so they should be out, Tulsa gave them a shot and they have done nothing, so get out.

TCC is the bigger problem here. That school really upsets me because they are so much a big part of the leveling of the southern end of downtown for ugly treeless parking. It's time TCC, which has been funded by Tulsa over and over, does what is best for Tulsa and not what is best for TCC.

Kathy Taylor and Tulsa's state legislators, this is a call to you. It's time to call out these special interests (TCC and LU) that claim to want to serve Tulsa but really are hurting the city and the state by protecting themselves.

I dont mind TCC being the college that offers the first 2 years and OSU and others offering masters and phd programs. TCC has many convenient campuses and the one downtown is very close to OSU Tulsa.  Would rather have TCC offering the first 2 years only and not trying to add graduate programs or having a messy free for all with both OSU and TCC trying to offer everything. I think the arrangement works quite well.  Let OSU Tulsa and others be the 4 year and up university and TCC the 2 year.

[BixB]

quote:I dont mind TCC being the college that offers the first 2 years and OSU and others offering masters and phd programs. TCC has many convenient campuses and the one downtown is very close to OSU Tulsa.  Would rather have TCC offering the first 2 years only and not trying to add graduate programs or having a messy free for all with both OSU and TCC trying to offer everything. I think the arrangement works quite well.  Let OSU Tulsa and others be the 4 year and up university and TCC the 2 year.

I agree totally.  In fact OSU-Tulsa and TCC have already started a dual admission program.  On the OSU-Tulsa website (http://www.osu-tulsa.okstate.edu/tcc/) it says:

Tulsa Community College and Oklahoma State University are working together to bring greater educational opportunities to college students. The TCC/OSU Dual Admission Program is a unique partnership and the first of its kind in Oklahoma.

High School and transfer students can submit one application for admission to any of the TCC campuses and the OSU campuses in Tulsa and Stillwater. Once you're admitted to the TCC/OSU Dual Admission Program, you are a student at both TCC and OSU. With a four-year plan in place, you'll know on your first day of class at TCC that you will graduate an OSU Cowboy.

In essence we already have a 4-year state university in Tulsa.  What we need now are dormitories and other amenities to make it a residential university.

And as far as the rankings go, there's no doubt you can get a fine education at TU, OU and OSU, so why be concerned about what these various sources say (particularly when they all disagree so wildly)?

[pmcalk]

I agree--the problem is not whether one can get a 4 year degree here, which they can, but whether the city offers that "whole college experience"--dorm life, bars, fraternities ([xx(]), etc....  Young people stay in college towns because the aren't ready to grow up; they associate college towns with the carefree college life.  Create a true "campus" downtown, either near TCC or OSU, with residence, quads, etc...., and you will have businesses spring up that cater to those college students.  And you will have young people wanting to stay in Tulsa.

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

I agree--the problem is not whether one can get a 4 year degree here, which they can, but whether the city offers that "whole college experience"--dorm life, bars, fraternities ([xx(]), etc....  Young people stay in college towns because the aren't ready to grow up; they associate college towns with the carefree college life.  Create a true "campus" downtown, either near TCC or OSU, with residence, quads, etc...., and you will have businesses spring up that cater to those college students.  And you will have young people wanting to stay in Tulsa.

I would have to agree.

I think OSU Tulsa needs to have the whole experience otherwise it could become a university local kids go to who can't afford/ don't have the grades to go out of town. I don't think for example Rogers State has helped Claremore or Panhandle helped Goodwell become anything like Stillwater or because it is full of local kids who live at home and drive in.

I hope the campus becomes more urban and built up too. I went to university in a truly urban campus of 8,600 students studying in the equivalent space of a Tulsa city block. It can be done at a real density that creates a real bustle. Or the campus can spread out over an area of downtown and intermingle with existing businesses, residences and offices and become a real part of the urban fabric rather than its own quarter.

[TheArtist]

Many people I knew when I finished high school went off to live on college campuses, then dropped out (partied too much or didn't study hard enough) and ended up coming back and going to TCC lol.  On top of that many people started at TCC because it was convenient and cheap, got their bearings, then went to have the "real college experience" afterwards.  

That real college experience can easily start after the first 2 years of TCC as it has for many.  I do hope that OSU Tulsa grows to be a full fledged campus with dorms and the like for those people who want that experience.  This would bring a lot of life to downtown and offer more of an attraction for living in Tulsa.

 My concern with OSU Tulsa at present is its limited offering of graduate, Masters, and PHD programs.  Those are the programs that are needed to attract the kind of people that we want to move to Tulsa.  An associates degree or Bachelors are just minor degrees and can be had anywhere.  Its the upper level degrees where a person needs to be in college for 4 to 8 years after a bachelors, that will keep those "creative class", upwardly mobile, information worker, types in our city and enable them to move to our city.

All of the mid 20s to 30s aged people I know of who would like to move to Tulsa are in those upper level course programs.  Those that I know of who have had to leave Tulsa because of educational concerns, dont have much problems with finding the lower level courses anymore, though they are still limited, but do have to leave to get the upper level ones. Not to mention OSU, TU, ORU, simply don't offer a full range of upper level degree programs.

We have a great start going.  We just need to flesh out the upper level programs and create that real college environment at OSU Tulsa.

Having dorms where OSU Tulsa has planned for them to be, will be great for students not only taking mid and upper level classes at OSU but could also be great for classes at TCC downtown with a quick commute or bikeride. Some TCC classes could even be taught on the OSU Tulsa campus. Even after TCC that still leaves 4-8 years of college life at OSU Tulsa.

I wonder what the long range plan is for OSU Tulsa and when they do plan to have dorms on the OSU Tulsa campus?  They already have bought the property expressly for this purpose. Its just what stage and time it will happen?  What has to happen before they get to this point?  Is there anything that the city can do to help things along?

[SXSW]

I'd like to see their master plan, anyone know where it can be found?  There is a small rendering that looks pretty interesting on their website, but that's all I could find.  I do hope the "dorms" they have planned are at an urban scale i.e. up against streets with sidewalks and landscaping, mixed-use, and walking distance to classes at the OSU-Tulsa campus.  What is going up currently at OSU-Stillwater, the suite-style student apartments, are NOT what is needed downtown.

The areas just west of Cincinnati north of I-244 would be a good place to begin.  Also the dilapidated apartments north of the campus on the hill, and that highrise govt. housing project, could be bought by OSU, torn down (the apartments) or renovated (the tower) and that could be a student housing area as well.  Keep all new academic buildings in and around the current campus, taking away those massive parking lots and building green spaces and parking garages.  

Connecting the campus to downtown through corridors like Cincinnati, Detroit, Elgin, and especially Greenwood will be important as the university grows.  I could see college-oriented businesses line up along Elgin and Greenwood leading into the campus.  The area where Detroit, Cincinnati, and John Hope Franklin meet just to the east of the Helmerich research center could become a nice public area with housing, academic buildings, and a green space; the true heart of the urban campus with academic buildings to the east and student housing to the north and west, and the Brady District just to the south.

[jne]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Many people I knew when I finished high school went off to live on college campuses, then dropped out (partied too much or didn't study hard enough) and ended up coming back and going to TCC lol.  On top of that many people started at TCC because it was convenient and cheap, got their bearings, then went to have the "real college experience" afterwards.  

That real college experience can easily start after the first 2 years of TCC as it has for many.  I do hope that OSU Tulsa grows to be a full fledged campus with dorms and the like for those people who want that experience.  This would bring a lot of life to downtown and offer more of an attraction for living in Tulsa.

 My concern with OSU Tulsa at present is its limited offering of graduate, Masters, and PHD programs.  Those are the programs that are needed to attract the kind of people that we want to move to Tulsa.  An associates degree or Bachelors are just minor degrees and can be had anywhere.  Its the upper level degrees where a person needs to be in college for 4 to 8 years after a bachelors, that will keep those "creative class", upwardly mobile, information worker, types in our city and enable them to move to our city.

All of the mid 20s to 30s aged people I know of who would like to move to Tulsa are in those upper level course programs.  Those that I know of who have had to leave Tulsa because of educational concerns, dont have much problems with finding the lower level courses anymore, though they are still limited, but do have to leave to get the upper level ones. Not to mention OSU, TU, ORU, simply don't offer a full range of upper level degree programs.

We have a great start going.  We just need to flesh out the upper level programs and create that real college environment at OSU Tulsa.

Having dorms where OSU Tulsa has planned for them to be, will be great for students not only taking mid and upper level classes at OSU but could also be great for classes at TCC downtown with a quick commute or bikeride. Some TCC classes could even be taught on the OSU Tulsa campus. Even after TCC that still leaves 4-8 years of college life at OSU Tulsa.

I wonder what the long range plan is for OSU Tulsa and when they do plan to have dorms on the OSU Tulsa campus?  They already have bought the property expressly for this purpose. Its just what stage and time it will happen?  What has to happen before they get to this point?  Is there anything that the city can do to help things along?

We are definitely on the same page here.  I have no problem with TCC doing triage of the early undergrads and taking care of 2 year occupational training.  TCC is doing good things for the community - bringing further education to a lot of folks who wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity and training necessary pieces of our workforce.  They have HS and OSU dual enrollment also expanding from their current progragram to focus on workforce shortages like nursing.  
I think OSU and TCC can still work together here.  I worry that Stillwater may be dragging its feet on OSU-Tulsa. Wherever the barriers, I think its time Tulsa took some responsability for pushing things forward.  
OSU-Tulsa has the opportunity to be the Urban college community for Oklahoma.  They need to expand on the 4 year degree programs to help build the college community and expand GRADUATE ED. so people will stay here, become well educated, and push Tulsa forward. Everybody can be a winner with this one.

[tshane250]

quote: Having dorms where OSU Tulsa has planned for them to be, will be great for students not only taking mid and upper level classes at OSU but could also be great for classes at TCC downtown with a quick commute or bikeride.

I think having dorms is a great idea, but I do not really think most graduate students live in on-campus student housing.  At least not in my experience with grad students during my undergrad days, nor from my personal experience in grad school.  Everyone I knew (including myself) lived off-campus in apartments or rental houses.  In fact, I think a lot of campuses restrict dorms to undergraduates, maybe with the exception of international students.  Maybe some loft style urban apartments for graduate students would be more appropriate.  They would fit right into that area.

[SXSW]

To see what we should strive for OSU-Tulsa to become, check out Portland State University.  PSU is a public 4 year university on the south end of downtown Portland, Oregon.  This is an urban campus but also has areas of green space, midrise student housing, and athletic facilities.  Something like Portland State or UW-Milwaukee would be good models to follow.

Also, I think OSU-Tulsa should be an independent entity.  Right now it's too closely tied to the Stillwater campus, that should change.  Maybe even drop the orange logo colors and banners around campus and replace them with another color or different logo, maybe green or yellow?

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

To see what we should strive for OSU-Tulsa to become, check out Portland State University.  PSU is a public 4 year university on the south end of downtown Portland, Oregon.  This is an urban campus but also has areas of green space, midrise student housing, and athletic facilities.  Something like Portland State or UW-Milwaukee would be good models to follow.

i think there isn't a need for the athletic facilities to be so close in. If its really urban, which is what we should be aiming, it should be further out. Maybe linked with a shuttle bus to the central campus.

[TheArtist]

Do a quick comparison of the programs offered at Portland and OSU Tulsa, that will give you an idea of what OSU Tulsa really needs.  Housing and such wont hurt of course, but actually having classes and graduate programs to take wouldnt hurt either.[]