Volunteer sign inspectors

[RecycleMichael]

Today's Tulsa World has a story that makes me want to help the city with budget woes and beautify our neighborhoods at the same time.

Illegal: But Not a Priority: Budget woes keep signs on the road

By BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer
9/22/2006

Signs are not allowed within the city's rights of way, but there's no one to enforce the ordinances. Lose Weight Fast. Free Cell Phone Minutes. Work From Home. Cheap Lawn Service. 100 Signs Like This For $215.

Signs touting commercial, attention-grabbing offers are illegally popping up in the city's rights of way, cluttering the urban landscape.

As fast as city crews can pull them up, the signs multiply. "It's certainly a problem," said Tim Cartner, Neighborhood Inspections Division field supervisor.

"Political seasons are the worst, but year-round, there's signs all over the place." No signs are allowed within the city's rights of way, which reach 12 feet from the curb.

But they have become more widespread because there's no one to enforce the city's ordinances against such signs, Cartner said. "We had a sign inspector up until a few years ago, but that position was cut," he explained. "The signs aren't a health or a safety issue, so when money got tight, it wasn't a priority."

City Councilor Bill Martinson has been lobbying the City Council to fund the sign inspector position with surplus money from the last fiscal year.

The city's administration has set aside roughly $1.5 million for the council to address some of its identified priorities. "I think we could improve the aesthetics of Tulsa dramatically by spending a little bit of money on this," Martinson said. "You drive through town and see all of these signs stuck everywhere. It leaves a bad impression."

A sign inspector would have the time and authority to conduct investigations and pursue cases against the most egregious offenders, Martinson said. An inspector would also enforce the city's rules regarding permanent signs, including their height, size and other aspects.

"I think right now, people know we're not enforcing our sign ordinances, and they're taking advantage of it," Martinson said. City prosecutor Bob Garner said he can't recall a case the city has pursued against a business that had signs in the right of way.

"I looked at one not too long ago, but there was no way to prove the case," he said. Although a lot of the signs have business names and phone numbers on them, an important element of a case would be who actually placed the signs, Garner said.

"It's like campaign signs," he said. "Often times, it's not the candidates themselves who are distributing the signs. It's their volunteers. You have to determine who's directly responsible."

Violations of the ordinance are punishable by a fine of as much as $500 and 90 days in jail.

"I would pursue a case if there was a legitimate complaint and it had all of the essential elements," Garner said. "But that's more difficult than it sounds."

[NellieBly]

Hooray for Bill Martinson. Signs on poles are one of the worst eyesores in Tulsa. If every single sign was removed, the city would look so much better. I don't care about penalizing the offenders, (eventually, the city should fine them) we just need to get this stuff cleaned up. We don't need the sign police, we just need the help of ordinary citizens. I hereby deputize every single Tulsan a member of the sign police. I challenge every Tulsa Now poster to promise to take down 10 signs this weekend. Don't go onto private property, but if a sign is on a pole in your neighborhood, or in the ground at a busy intersection, it is perfectly within your rights to take them down.
Illegal signage is a blight on Tulsa and I think we should declare war! (No draft needed!!)

[Hometown]

Today's story left me with a question.  If I display a political sign in my yard does it need to be situated 12 feet from the curb?

[TulsaJayhawk]

Taking down illegally posted signs represents a wonderful sentiment.  Unfortunately, you can be arrested for doing so.  Illegal as they may be, they are not your property nor on your property, so you must leave them alone.

What you CAN do is call the phone numbers listed on the offending signs and tell them (in a polite, persuading way, I'd suggest) what you think of their marketing practices.  Encourage them to check our sign ordinances and to stop letting their signs be placed illegally.

Then, add your voice to the public outcry by writing a letter for publication in the Tulsa World, Urban Tulsa or wherever you think it can get noticed.  Let's turn up the heat until inspectors are back in place and ordinances are being aggressively enforced!

[alanoftulsa]

I have a lot better things to do this weekend other than go around town and pick up signs.  The problem fixes its-self.  You arrest the people putting up the signs and as they spend their 90 days in jail they go around town and pick-up other signs.  Then you arrest a new batch of sign thugs and repeat the process.

[RecycleMichael]

I like the Nellie proposal.

I promise to pick up ten signs in the right-of-way this weekend. There are campaign signs near my house for candidates who lost primaries back in July.

If I get arrested, will you guys pass the hat for my bail?

[snopes]

So they will arrest the people that take this litter off the streets and not the ones that put it up? Something's wrong here.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

100 Signs Like This For $215.

Darn, I thought that was a bounty, I was hoping to pick up an additional $430 this weekend. []

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaJayhawk

Taking down illegally posted signs represents a wonderful sentiment.  Unfortunately, you can be arrested for doing so.  Illegal as they may be, they are not your property nor on your property, so you must leave them alone.

What you CAN do is call the phone numbers listed on the offending signs and tell them (in a polite, persuading way, I'd suggest) what you think of their marketing practices.  Encourage them to check our sign ordinances and to stop letting their signs be placed illegally.

Then, add your voice to the public outcry by writing a letter for publication in the Tulsa World, Urban Tulsa or wherever you think it can get noticed.  Let's turn up the heat until inspectors are back in place and ordinances are being aggressively enforced!

You could not be more wrong about picking up illegal signs.....Thats like saying you could be arrested for picking up trash on city property which is what illegal signs are...I grab them and trash them every chance I get....

[NellieBly]

I have been removing signs on the right of way for years and have still not seen the inside of a jail. If you're too lazy to remove 10 signs (a 15 minute committment) then I never want to hear you complain about how bad Tulsa looks, which is cheap and trashy. This is a proactive way for the citizens of Tulsa to make our city look better.

[TulsaJayhawk]

Talk about shooting the messenger ... whew!

I merely said that removing the signs is illegal and briefly explained why.  If you wish to verify this information, call Jim Garriott in the City of Tulsa's Public Works Department at 596-9664 and ask for clarification of the ordinances regarding illegal signage removal.

What you decide to do is completely up to you and more power to you.  I'm all for making every little one of those illegally posted signs disappear, but I suspect that temporarily removing several dozen signs will do nothing in the long run to stem the problem unless there's teeth behind the ordinances and someone to bite the offenders.

I've already suggested two very proactive (and perfectly legal) alternatives to consider and I have had a guest opinion piece published in the Tulsa World about the subject within the past year, so I think I have earned a right to offer comments here on the subject.

If you're going to take down signs, however, I'd counsel you to be especially careful when it comes to political ones.  If you have to ask why, you really need to study our sign ordinances.

[NellieBly]

I am not talking about political signs at all. They are legal for 45 days before an election. Fine. They look like hell but there's nothing that can be done. But as far as signs advertising businesses on poles and on street corners...They are trash. Period. I don't consider removing them any more illegal than picking up a QT cup from the sidewalk.

[jne]

I agree with trying to take care of all of the old political signs and business that send people out to clutter intersections and poles.  However, I do think that some allowances should be made.  What comes to mind is concert/entertainment posters.  Posting signs for concerts/plays/comedy etc. is often the only way many artists can afford to get the word out about events.  I say entertainment posters on poles should stay on Brookside/some downtown areas/ etc. at the least.  I think there are some instances where most people want them there.

[TulsaJayhawk]

Quite respectfully, jne, what you want isn't a good idea, in my opinion.

First, anything attached to a utility pole is a real danger for the workers who have to scale that pole.  Plus those poles are private property.  One poster in a restaurant or store window will do far more good than dozens of weathered ones attached to poles anyway!

Secondly, other than political concerns, exceptions just cannot be made for something like concert/entertainment items or we'd still be facing a major cluttered mess.  You say some people appreciate them, but I resent them deeply.

Why? Because of all the subjects I see promoted locally on signs, the ones that get the most attention already on the Internet and in the media are from the entertainment sector.  And they often get vast amounts of it for free, no less!  

Anybody with a middle school sense of promotion can figure out how to effectively get the word out through the media about an upcoming arts or entertainment event.  Why, then, should we tolerate their signs but not the ones for small, independent businesses that represent accountants, firewood suppliers, Christmas trees, house cleaners, etc.?  They often have extremely limited marketing budgets and can't get any of the media attention entertainment events easily score.

Sorry, but your pleasure in this case is my poison.

[jne]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaJayhawk

Quite respectfully, jne, what you want isn't a good idea, in my opinion.

First, anything attached to a utility pole is a real danger for the workers who have to scale that pole.  Plus those poles are private property.  One poster in a restaurant or store window will do far more good than dozens of weathered ones attached to poles anyway!

Secondly, other than political concerns, exceptions just cannot be made for something like concert/entertainment items or we'd still be facing a major cluttered mess.  You say some people appreciate them, but I resent them deeply.

Why? Because of all the subjects I see promoted locally on signs, the ones that get the most attention already on the Internet and in the media are from the entertainment sector.  And they often get vast amounts of it for free, no less!  

Anybody with a middle school sense of promotion can figure out how to effectively get the word out through the media about an upcoming arts or entertainment event.  Why, then, should we tolerate their signs but not the ones for small, independent businesses that represent accountants, firewood suppliers, Christmas trees, house cleaners, etc.?  They often have extremely limited marketing budgets and can't get any of the media attention entertainment events easily score.

Sorry, but your pleasure is my poison.

I think an entertainment district should help to create an atmosphere that promotes local entertainment. An alternative would be to have more billboards designated for posting events.  When I'm sitting on a patio eating lunch with friends, we're looking at the signs on the poles to see whats happening Friday night and many would not know otherwise.  
Do workers actually scale these poles??  I've always seen the lines serviced with a bucket lift.  Also, if posting is banned, there will still be the last 20 years worth of staples in the pole.  I say help create a better alternative first before putting a halt on a practice that goes on in the entertainment districs of most major cities that have more successful districts.