North Tulsa Safe?

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by bugo

quote:Originally posted by tulsascoot

Sure there's crime on North Tulsa, but, it's not so dangerous you can't go there. Tulsa's "bad side" of town is completely tame compared to the "ghetto" areas of cities like St. Louis, Dallas, or KC. I've somehow been lost in the wrong areas of all 3, and that can be unnerving, even in broad daylight.

Where in KC did you get lost?  I lived up there for 2 years and there were no parts of town that I felt terribly unsafe in during the day.

I lived in KCK for 6 months 20 years ago.  The old neighborhood I lived in between State and Parallel and about 63rd is pretty rough now.

Back then, you avoided old Hwy 71 near downtown KCMO.  29th & Prospect was so rough, HBO did a series on the crime there about 10 years ago.  29th & Prospect made 56th N. and Cincinatti in Tulsa look like Mr. Roger's neighborhood.

Back in the mid-seventies I suffered through a divorce. Sold everything and  bought a beautiful pearl gray 'vette. When I went north on 35 to visit my girlfriend had to pass through KC and missed the 635 exit. Travelled through miles and miles of what looked like a NYC ghetto. With my disco clothes, styled hair, and open t-top vette I was a bit nervous. No one bothered me but I did get the stink eye from a lot of nasty looking characters.

[Conan71]

(As said to the gentleman in the 'vette at a stoplight along rte 71 in KCMO- loosely borrowed from a Cheech & Chong routine)

"Hey Waterboy! You wanna buy a watch?"

"Why would I want to buy a watch?"

"Well I got it figured this way.  You ain't got no watch."

"Why do you think I don't have a watch?"

"Well if you had a watch, you'd know it's night time and night time ain't no time to be in this here neighborhood."

[8D]

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by Porky
I go to North Tulsa all the time and it's a wonderful community. Obviously they have a problem area but it's small, compared to the rest of their community.

If our Mayor and Chief of Police would address the gang/drug problem, that small area wouldn't be an issue either.

How bout a little honest here folks.  The numbers don't lie.  Though you may feel that certain parts of the northside are safe (and they may be during the day).  To say that the crime is small compared to the rest of the community is just false.  If compared to the rest of Tulsa, the northside has exponentially greater crime per square mile.  Anecdotal evidence takes second place to actual statistical data in this case.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:Originally posted by Porky
I go to North Tulsa all the time and it's a wonderful community. Obviously they have a problem area but it's small, compared to the rest of their community.

If our Mayor and Chief of Police would address the gang/drug problem, that small area wouldn't be an issue either.

How bout a little honest here folks.  The numbers don't lie.  Though you may feel that certain parts of the northside are safe (and they may be during the day).  To say that the crime is small compared to the rest of the community is just false.  If compared to the rest of Tulsa, the northside has exponentially greater crime per square mile.  Anecdotal evidence takes second place to actual statistical data in this case.

Yes, crime is higher in North Tulsa than in the rest of the city.  No, this does not make the whole of North Tulsa a war zone.  The specific part of Lewis on which the church is located has the same amount of danger on a Sunday morning, or weekday afternoon for that matter, as any other area of the city.  Which is to say, none.

The one caveat is, don't go strolling through the back neighborhood at 1 am with a full wallet.

[AngieB]

quote:Originally posted by Porky

And if you would happen to stumble into Red Fork after dark.....oh my, may the Good Lord have mercy upon you! [:O]

Care to elaborate?

Man, I'm sick of this perception of the westside -- Red Fork, Carbondale, Hill Haven. It's simply not reality. Crime is EXTREMELY low in these areas. Pull up the crime map and see how many dots are on the Westside and compare it to EVERYWHERE else, then try to convince people how scaaaary it is. Whatever.

[Hometown]

Most of the crime referred to here is Black on Black.  I checked out statistics a while ago and mid-town actually had more property crimes, like break ins.  

I'm a bourgeois older gay White man.  I live grew up in South Tulsa but I now live in North Tulsa by choice.  We have wonderful old neighborhoods (Brady Heights, Owen Park, Gilcrease Hills, and Reservoir Hill) and I think the quality of life is much better in North Tulsa.  I enjoy living in a racially and economically diverse neighborhood.

You get a whole lot more home for your money in North Tulsa and we have nice big lots.  We are close to downtown jobs and I never get stuck in traffic.  The Tulsa Country Club is there if you enjoy playing golf or swimming.

I feel safe in North Tulsa.  But I should qualify that statement by saying I don't spend a lot of time outside after dark and I avoid businesses that look rundown.  And we have good security on our home.  

[iplaw]

quote:I think the quality of life is much better in North Tulsa.

Could you elaborate on this please?

[sauerkraut]

There's some pretty bad areas in just about every major city- Areas that you would not want to drive thru at night without driving an armored hummer some parts of Detroit are so bad cops and emergency personel avoid the area. BTW a good way to check out a neighborhood before you move there or buy a home there is to drive thru that neighborhood on a Friday & Saturday night and see who's out on the streets and what's going down. Friday night is when you can tell exactly what kind of materal a neighborhood is made out of, and the type of people in the area. A real estate agent told me this trick. if it looks bad, don't move there.

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:I think the quality of life is much better in North Tulsa.

Could you elaborate on this please?

Well we never sit in traffic.  My commute to work takes 10 minutes.  My neighborhood feels like Maple Ridge but it is more hilly and the lots are larger.  Within a week of moving in all of our immediate neighbors had come by to introduce themselves.  My neighborhood has an annual picnic and an annual Christmas party, both well attended.  After two years I know just about everyone in my neighborhood.

The architecture is a mix of Craftsman, Historic Revival and mint condition Ranch homes with a spattering of Contemporary.

North Tulsa was built during the city beautiful movement.  Our neighborhoods are laid out better.  We don't have excessive signage and endless asphalt parking lots.  We don't have strip malls at every turn.  

My partner and I have spent most of our lives living in areas with an international mix of peoples and cultures.  North Tulsa is not international but our racial diversity brings us pretty close.  The Black families in my neighborhood are successful business owners.  The wonderful restaurants of the Latin neighborhood around Lewis are close.  If I run out of engraved stationary it's a quick 10 drive to Miss Jackson's at Utica Square.  The Utica Park Clinic at Hillcrest feels like healthcare used to feel back in the day.

North Tulsa has a preponderance of Democrats, something that is important to me.  And if I need the police, they are very responsive.

There are days when I'm not happy with Tulsa, but I am always happy with my home and my neighborhood and neighbors.  The neighbor to the east owns an oil company and the neighbor to the west is a librarian.  To the north we have an artist and a curator.  To the south we have an American Airlines mechanic.

I could go on about the peacocks that roam the neighborhood, the bunnies and foxes and cardinals and Martins and lady bugs that populate our yards but I don't want to try your patience.

I've lived all over the place and North Tulsa ranks very high on my list.  In other words it gets the much coveted Hometown stamp of approval.

[iplaw]

Thanks for the explaination, and you're neighborhood sounds like a beautiful place to live.  Not to sound cynical (but I am a lawyer), there are very few locations on the northside that have the kind of character of which you speak.  I've lived in Tulsa my entire life and been all over the northside as some family members of mine used to live in Dawson.  The picture you paint is awfuly nice, but more the exception than the rule...at least IMO.

What kind of quality of life is it when you can't go out into your community after dark though?

quote:North Tulsa has a preponderance of Democrats, something that is important to me.

That doesn't sound like a very "diverse" type of statement to me...[]

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

Thanks for the explaination, and you're neighborhood sounds like a beautiful place to live.  Not to sound cynical (but I am a lawyer), there are very few locations on the northside that have the kind of character of which you speak.  I've lived in Tulsa my entire life and been all over the northside as some family members of mine used to live in Dawson.  The picture you paint is awfuly nice, but more the exception than the rule...at least IMO.

What kind of quality of life is it when you can't go out into your community after dark though?

quote:North Tulsa has a preponderance of Democrats, something that is important to me.

That doesn't sound like a very "diverse" type of statement to me...[]

I'm older Iplaw and didn't go out a lot at night in San Franscisco or Oakland.  But honestly, I think you need to be careful going out at night no matter where you live.  

We have several attorneys in the neighborhood.  In fact one newcomer is an IP attorney.  The last home sold went for over $325,000.  

Brady Heights, Owen Park, Reservoir Hill and Gilcrease Hills are all diverse and very nice neighborhoods.  I forgot to mention we have the best public high school in Tulsa and there are some very fine public elementary and middle schools.  There are also nice private schools nearby.

[RecycleMichael]

Don't worry iplaw. You republicans can still live and enjoy great places like north Tulsa.

Oh, I forgot. The republican party is the group that plays upon our fears.

Just kidding.

[cannon_fodder]

I work in North Tulsa.  It is certainly, by and large, a ghetto.  The area near Gilcrease is very nice and very much the exception.  There are probably enclaves I do not know about, but most of it is run down, dirty, and poor.  They may be mostly democrat, but the smart money is on low voter turnout.

During the day I do not feel threatened at all.  There are a few areas I would not want to walk around in, but certainly driving through or going to a destination shouldnt be a problem.  At night, I would drive by on the major roads but would not consider stopping at the public parks.

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Brady Heights, Owen Park, Reservoir Hill and Gilcrease Hills are all diverse and very nice neighborhoods.  

Again, these areas are very much in stark contrast to the rest of the northside.  It's like living in South Africa where there are pockets of affluence surrounded abject poverty, obviously not to the same degree, but nevertheless analogous.  You say it's great because you're pointing to what's clean and safe while ignoring what's going on all around, but I could be wrong...

[Hometown]

There are pockets of shanties that were built poor, I think mostly between Lewis and Utica.  The neighborhoods further west beginning before Cincinatti and continuing past Gilcrease were originally built as first class White neighborhoods that became Black with White Flight in the 50s and 60s.  That area is still mostly well maintained.  Overall Tulsa's Black community strikes me as mostly middle class.  Always has.  I don't know about North of Apache.  I hear there are neighborhoods that are kind of tucked away there.  I feel quite comfortable when I'm walking or driving around the flat lands.  Until recently, I bought my groceries at Albertson's at Pine and Peoria.  In fact I preferred it to the Albertson's at 15th and Lewis.