Frack Off

[AquaMan]

That's a good point. Its actually the injection of the wastewater that is suspect. We have major faults that run through this area, one just west in Creek county, and the crust is quite solid limestone some 15 miles deep iirc. So, when we do have quakes, they travel through that layer for long distances. Our big one back in 2011 was felt all the way to Maryland. (thanks PBS!) Not sure of the layout in the Dakotas.

[AquaMan]

In other news:

DENVER—The organizer of Initiative 75, the grassroots anti-fracking measure, announced Monday that he has folded the statewide campaign after failing to collect enough signatures.http://thecoloradoobserver.com/2014/07/grassroots-anti-fracking-initiative-pulled-due-to-lack-of-support/

Once the legal pot industry outpaces the energy industry in that state it will be easier to get support for such a measure, however it may be more difficult to get people to show up to the polls on the right day.

That's funny. I wonder if they will enact laws similar to alcohol for election days. No doobies within 150 feet of an election hall. And no sales on election day.

[Conan71]

Oil companies are scrambling to find better ways to deal with waste water.  The technology is there, it simply will cost more per bbl for higher disposal costs.

[TheArtist]

  Was interesting looking at one of those recent studies one scientist had put together showing where the concentrations of injection wells were and then seeing the number of earthquakes nearby dramatically increasing and also spreading outwards.  If they spread outwards towards say the Meers Faultline and it kicks loose, I don't know how they will be able to say they had no part in that. They will of course BUT if there is loss of life and significant damage, people will be screaming for heads to roll. I think the fracking industry is pretty much just trying to "play the odds" cross their fingers and hope that doesn't happen under their management/shareholders watch.

[heironymouspasparagus]

 Was interesting looking at one of those recent studies one scientist had put together showing where the concentrations of injection wells were and then seeing the number of earthquakes nearby dramatically increasing and also spreading outwards.  If they spread outwards towards say the Meers Faultline and it kicks loose, I don't know how they will be able to say they had no part in that. They will of course BUT if there is loss of life and significant damage, people will be screaming for heads to roll. I think the fracking industry is pretty much just trying to "play the odds" cross their fingers and hope that doesn't happen under their management/shareholders watch.

You understand perfectly!


Look out - you will be looking for a CEO job at one of the big oils, next.....

[DolfanBob]

Is this a confirmation of Fracking = Earthquakes?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/state-orders-injection-well-shut-down-after-northwestern-oklahoma-earthquake/article_4184d155-d9b2-523d-a8d5-033174ff8584.html

http://www.tulsaworld.com/earthquakes/swarm-of-earthquakes-strikes-parts-of-northern-oklahoma/article_88b6abe2-3dd8-521d-80bc-cbfae479c9fb.html

[heironymouspasparagus]

Is this a confirmation of Fracking = Earthquakes?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/state-orders-injection-well-shut-down-after-northwestern-oklahoma-earthquake/article_4184d155-d9b2-523d-a8d5-033174ff8584.html

http://www.tulsaworld.com/earthquakes/swarm-of-earthquakes-strikes-parts-of-northern-oklahoma/article_88b6abe2-3dd8-521d-80bc-cbfae479c9fb.html

And yet, we just keep on believing and voting for the BS....

We have drunk the Kool-Aid big time!!   Don't Stop Believing...!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcjzHMhBtf0

[dbacksfan 2.0]

Is this a confirmation of Fracking = Earthquakes?

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/local/state-orders-injection-well-shut-down-after-northwestern-oklahoma-earthquake/article_4184d155-d9b2-523d-a8d5-033174ff8584.html

http://www.tulsaworld.com/earthquakes/swarm-of-earthquakes-strikes-parts-of-northern-oklahoma/article_88b6abe2-3dd8-521d-80bc-cbfae479c9fb.html

Injecting waste water into the ground (forcing it) is somewhat different from fracking to get the oil or natural gas out. This is disposing of the water from drilling activity.

[cannon_fodder]

The USGS and other scientific organizations acknowledged correlations for both, BUT, it appears somewhat conclusive that injection wells DO cause earthquakes. The fracking may just be a precursor (waste injection wells are almost always near fracking sites).  Unfortunately, if you can't inject salts, drilling chemicals, and contaminants that come up from the wells into the ground... it is very expensive to dispose of it.

Whether or not injection wells cause earthquakes is now just a question for industry and politicians - the more interesting question is do the pattern of earthquakes where little earthquakes usually foretell bigger earthquakes? As injecting activity goes down - will the earthquakes respond quickly? Is there a way or a location to do injections that doesn't cause earthquakes?

Arguing about the underlying issue, while not entirely resolved but appears to be heavily weighted towards causation, is no longer productive.

[Hoss]

http://www.npr.org/2015/02/16/386693615/with-quakes-spiking-oil-industry-is-under-the-microscope-in-oklahoma

[patric]

The USGS and other scientific organizations acknowledged correlations for both, BUT, it appears somewhat conclusive that injection wells DO cause earthquakes. The fracking may just be a precursor (waste injection wells are almost always near fracking sites).  Unfortunately, if you can't inject salts, drilling chemicals, and contaminants that come up from the wells into the ground... it is very expensive to dispose of it.

Drive along some county roads and follow the miles of trails of something that looks like it "leaked" from a vehicle.

A friend in Okmulgee explained that fracking waste being hauled to disposal would "accidentally" not make it to its destination because of an open valve.

Thats toxic or carcinogenic B.T.E.X. chemicals (benzene, toluene, xylene and ethylbenzene) as well as lead, diesel and salt brine being dumped on open roads in the dead of night.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Drive along some county roads and follow the miles of trails of something that looks like it "leaked" from a vehicle.

A friend in Okmulgee explained that fracking waste being hauled to disposal would "accidentally" not make it to its destination because of an open valve.

Thats toxic or carcinogenic B.T.E.X. chemicals (benzene, toluene, xylene and ethylbenzene) as well as lead, diesel and salt brine being dumped on open roads in the dead of night.

This is old, old procedure - back to the 20's.  Relatives who were truck drivers in that time told those stories when I was a kid.  You can see it from time to time when following either a tanker, or sometimes a van (big box trailer).  Lower right hand corner at the floor level, just under the door, will have some type of oxidation depending on the trailer - steel vs alum.  Occasionally, will even drill holes in the floor to route a tube out the bottom in front of the tires, so not seen as a visible stream out the back.  

And a lot more than just drilling wastes.... a wide variety of liquids that needed disposal have been dumped that way forever.  If you ever had any inexplicable marks show up on the paint of your car, it must have just been "acid rain"....from those "rain clouds" at about 4 feet off the ground that you were following down the road....


Is that really that much worse than taking a truck load of gravel and pouring it on the ground, with a few thousand gallons of almost crude oil ??  Asphalt road....  That certainly couldn't lead to any increased health risks a reasonable person might expect, would it??

[Conan71]

I ride a lot of gravel roads, especially out in Paine County where there is a lot of drilling and fracking going on.  One of the reasons people like riding out there is oil field and farm traffic is about all you see.  I have yet to see any evidence of "leaky" valved trailers being dragged around the Oklahoma outback. 

I think you are repeating a wive's tale Patric.  Granted I don't ride Okmulgee County roads, oil companies do some stupid smile but I don't think anyone would be that blatantly obvious.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I ride a lot of gravel roads, especially out in Paine County where there is a lot of drilling and fracking going on.  One of the reasons people like riding out there is oil field and farm traffic is about all you see.  I have yet to see any evidence of "leaky" valved trailers being dragged around the Oklahoma outback.  

I think you are repeating a wive's tale Patric.  Granted I don't ride Okmulgee County roads, oil companies do some stupid smile but I don't think anyone would be that blatantly obvious.

Look closer.  It's there from time to time.  Less now than in the past, 'cause it is so much more expensive to get caught!  Thank goodness for the EPA!!

And it's not gravel roads so much as the back paved roads....


While you are out and about - keep an eye out for WPA bridges and culverts.  They are all over the place.  Usually a small concrete barrier 'fence' on both sides of the road.  Often painted yellow.  On the end, cast into the concrete is a badge shape with WPA and the date just under it.  Mostly 1940 and 1941 in northeast Oklahoma.  Have seen a 1939 or two somewhere around.  These are still doing the job more than 70 years later!  Think of the massive amounts of money saved and the recreational opportunities created in that time due to WPA and the state parks built by the CCC.

[patric]

USGS:  "Deep injection of wastewater is the primary cause of the dramatic rise in detected earthquakes and the corresponding increase in seismic hazard in the central U.S."

http://www.usgs.gov/newsroom/article.asp?ID=4132&from=rss_home#.VOlp8Y3TnIV