Traffic Ticket

[Rowdy]

Does anyone know the usual cost for hiring a lawyer to fight a traffic ticket?  I was cited for speeding in a construction zone.  I was apparently going 44 in a 25 and thought it strange I didn't slow down as I am very careful about posted limits until I went back and re-drove my route and figured out why.  

I was heading eastbound on 81st towards Mingo where there is construction going on.  The speed limit on 81st is 25mph when you get in this zone by the intersection heading eastbound.  When I turned right or southbound on Mingo, this is what the road looks like.



As far as I could tell, there is no 25mph speed notice telling drivers the limit unless you knew this already heading southbound on Mingo from 71st.  Its obvious that you are to go that posted limit until you see the END OF CONSTRUCTION sign.  The problem is, what about those heading eastbound on 81st and turn on to this road?

From past experience, there is to be another speed limit sign for those drivers turning onto another road to let them know that it is in a construction zone.  Just because I am heading eastbound on an entirely different road, how is one to know that the next road to turn on has a slower limit unless otherwise posted?  

I have a perfect driving record and would have no problem paying the fine.  I just find it unreasonable that when you turn south onto Mingo from 81st, there is nothing that tells you to SLOW DOWN.  From the picture, I couldn't tell that there is anything going on to slow down or otherwise.  There were several cops there too pulling others over although they were heading northbound and that is clearly posted 25.

[Conan71]

Sure he didn't cite you for innatentive driving for reading the Tulsa World on your dashboard? [}:)][]

Probably would cost you more than the ticket to fight it, at best you'd walk out having to pay court costs and attorney's fees.  It's been a long time since I've had a traffic fine from TPD so I don't remember where you pay it other than at City Hall, or if there is a municipal court system to protest it.  

I suppose if you went downtown to the clerk's office which collects the fines, they would tell you the protest process.  

[Rowdy]

I put the Tulsa World up there to take pictures for timestamping sake when I re-drove the area.

[AMP]

I got a ticket once for disobeying a yellow light?  Confused me....

When I took drivers Ed back in High School I was taught to proceed through a yellow light with caution, and not to stop for a yellow light.  

As I approached the intersection at 40mph, the posted speed limit, the light turned yellow.

What are you supposed to do, slam on your brakes and lock up your tires and skid to a stop for the yellow light?

I submit a long vehicle entering an intersection right when the light turns yellow may not make it through on the yellow light.  At many intersections where there are four lanes with a center isle and a left hand turn lanes that most times a long vehicle such as a Semi pulling a 40 foot trailer cannot make it through the intersection completely before the light turns red.  How about the time it takes a tandem trailer rig such as Wonder Bread or UPS to clear that intersection traveling at 20mph?

Is that considered disobeying the yellow light, or is it a fault of the traffic engineers not allowing proper time on the light to allow the longest DOT approved vehicle on the road to clear the intersection?

I got another ticket for excessive smoke, the statute states the Muffler has to be factory or equivalent to prevent smoke.  I was driving an '06 F-450 Turbo Charged Ford Diesel Truck that had just started on a cold damp winter day.  They produce smoke when first driven when the engine is cold.  

I did not bother to fight either one, although I felt I could of won them both using logical arguments against the statutes as they are worded.  I just paid them and went on.  

Believe the U-Turn statute was amended due to a driver arguing in court regarding how a turn in a cul-de-sac was interpreted using the current statute.
 
Many laws are written not taking into consideration all the vehicles driven on the roads, and all the unusual traffic situations that occur during the 365 days of the normal year.  

Drive over 80,000  miles a year coast to coast in heavy trucks and you get a very broad view of strange traffic laws, inadequate lighting and poor sign placement.

Next time I travel to Teaxas I will stop and take a photo of one of the most confusing highway traffic signs I have ever seen in my life.  

You will enjoy this one.




This one is interesting:

[Wilbur]

Does anyone know the usual cost for hiring a lawyer to fight a traffic ticket?

You don't need an attorney to fight a traffic ticket in municipal court.  You can easily do that yourself.  Take your pictures, making sure you take pictures of the entire area in order to give the judge a clear perspective.  And make sure your pictures are current.

In fact, when you get to your court date, you might only have to talk with the prosecutor, who may decide to dismiss the ticket before it even goes to court.

[Rowdy]

On my ticket it shows the date and the time as being 8-5pm.  Does this mean that at anytime during the day I can walk in and plea? I would think I need to stand in front of the judge that day but it gave me the whole day for a time.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Rowdy

On my ticket it shows the date and the time as being 8-5pm.  Does this mean that at anytime during the day I can walk in and plea? I would think I need to stand in front of the judge that day but it gave me the whole day for a time.

You would need to appear before the deadline to set a date when your case can be heard.  You shouldnt need a lawyer.  If you believe you have a case where officers were acting improperly by working an area lacking legal markings, an appearance before a judge is a good way to make this a matter of public record.  You might also email some news operations asking that they contact you if there are similar complaints from other motorists.

[inteller]

ah, I see the boys in blue are taking a well needed vacation from the real crime in north tulsa and harrassing us working stiffs down in south tulsa again.

(and if you dont believe me just listen to a police scanner sometime.  last night every call I heard was north of admiral.)

[Hawkins]

25 mph on a main road is really hard to do, unless its for a short distance like in a school zone.

This sounds like typical revenue collection by the TPD.

I got hit once for rolling through a stop sign turning right in a neighborhood. $90!! Worst part, a few days later I saw a police cruiser do the exact same thing.

Its not unsafe to slow-roll through a stop sign if no other traffic is around, but if if a patrol car is hiding nearby, its revenue collection time, just like it was today I guess on 81st street.

[Chris]

Just another way to tax. I got a hundred dollar pedestrian ticket recently. It really made me consider not leaving home anymore.

[dsjeffries]

I was going to protest a ticket I got while in Tulsa, which was my very first, and instead of protesting it just took some hours of community service time.  I told this woman next to me what had happened and ended up volunteering at her Hospice doing website work.  Not a bad deal, volunteering, but I still had to pay court fees for a traffic violation I didn't commit.

Supposedly I was going 55 in a 40, uphill on Memorial in my tiny four-cylinder car... and I know that I wasn't (and had a passenger who could attest).

My dad has always told me about Tulsa police and yellow lights.  The only ticket he's ever received was from a Tulsa cop who cited him for passing through an intersection as the light turned yellow.

I really, REALLY dislike Tulsa cops.  Most of the things they do (traffic) do nothing to either serve OR protect the citizens of Tulsa; rather, they act as trolls under bridges who collect tolls as people pass.

[Wilbur]

On my ticket it shows the date and the time as being 8-5pm. Does this mean that at anytime during the day I can walk in and plea? I would think I need to stand in front of the judge that day but it gave me the whole day for a time.

You just need to contact the court any day prior to the date on the citation, between the hours of 8 and 5, and tell them you would like to set up a court date to plead not guilty.  The court will give you a new date to appear, send out notices to officer(s), and everyone can stand before the judge.

25 mph on a main road is really hard to do, unless its for a short distance like in a school zone.  This sounds like typical revenue collection by the TPD.

The police department has absolutely no control over the posted speed limits.  Speed limits are determined by traffic engineers, who have to follow state law that regulates how speeds are posted.  Many of the construction zones employees complain about speeders, which then is responded to by police.

I really, REALLY dislike Tulsa cops. Most of the things they do (traffic) do nothing to either serve OR protect the citizens of Tulsa; rather, they act as trolls under bridges who collect tolls as people pass.

Do you ever wonder way most people pay more for their automobile insurance then for the insurance on their house?  Do you ever hear people complain about the 43,000+ people killed each year in automobile collisions (far more then the number of people murdered).  Do you hear anyone complain about the 1400 wrecks per month just in Tulsa alone.  Do you wonder why wrecks account for more property damage then all other crimes combined, 10-fold.  That is why police enforce traffic laws.

Do you have any idea how many people call the police to complain about speeders in their neighborhoods, or about people who run red lights, or drive recklessly.  I'm confident you never want to hear the police response to be "Sorry.  We got better things to do."  or  "Sorry.  Too many people on the TulsaNow forum don't think we should enforce traffic laws."

Only one person is in control over how you drive.  That would be you!

[sgrizzle]

Rowdy -

I've fought "a few" tickets so here's what I have to share:

1. Talk to the D.A. (one of the assistants really. )You can plead your case with them before. I got a speeding ticket from Lake Patrol at I-244 and memorial from an officer with no radar. The ticket was lowered significantly by the DA's office. I believe Tulsa does this on a walk-in basis downtown. Just call the # on the ticket and say you want to talk to a DA.

2. Have a goal in mind. 44 in a 25 would normally be a 15-20 over ticket (construction zone worse). 0-10 tickets require about $100 in cash but do not count against you as far as insurance costs and points go. And keep in mind, even when not in construction, that intersection is 40mph.

3. Be honest. You can nitpick details, but don't pull the "I didn't know how fast I was going" line. Being an inattentive driver doesn't score points. Construction or not, you were speeding.

4. Take the picture below with you. Be clear that you knew you WERE in a posted 25mph zone, but you turned off of the road under construction and, given the absence of a single barrel or sign, assumed you had exited the construction zone.

5. Be firm, be cool. If they think you are a reasonable person who has no intention of speeding in a construction zone, before or now, they should treat you as such.

Example of how being calm can work:
I had a DA in payne (or maybe pawnee) county about 10 years ago that was tough to get in to talk to. I had gotten a ticket for 20 over in a rental car (I think the speedometer was bad.) When I did finally talk to the DA was the emotional one. He got upset that I was in there contesting the ticket. Finally he said "So, I know you were speeding, and you want me to reduced the ticket two pay levels (over $100) and not notify your insurance, even though you are guilty?" to which I replied "yes." After a long pause (stare down) he said "ok, but pay the fine before you leave."

If it goes to court, which hopefully it won't, I have more advice for that as well. At least trying talking to the DA personally before hiring a lawyer. You're usually paying for something you can do yourself for free. I represented myself in court once and won.

[ttownclown]

If the local police force wanted to gain more confidence with the public, they need to make extra effort to obey the traffic laws they enforce.  

The local police force is most visible in their cruisers. This is when the public sees them the most.  

By driving erratic, not using their blinkers, going over the posted speed limit by 10+mph, and most often TALKING ON THEIR CELL PHONES (I have personally witnessed all of these things in the last week - and seems to be normal practice)-- this makes the public perceive them in a bad light.  

Even as I see these traffic violations every day - I have never seen them pulled over on the side of the road receiving a citation. I can only assume they feel they are above the law.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur


Do you have any idea how many people call the police to complain about speeders in their neighborhoods, or about people who run red lights, or drive recklessly.  I'm confident you never want to hear the police response to be "Sorry.  We got better things to do."  or  "Sorry.  Too many people on the TulsaNow forum don't think we should enforce traffic laws."

The average citizen would appreciate enforcement of traffic laws if the application were not spurious and random.  It is like winning the lottery, and diminishes the important.  The deterrant effect of current enforcement techniques is a joke, which is too bad.

My ider is to have dedicated traffic enforcement units, possibly privatized, whose sole purpose is to enforce speeding laws.  No stupid domestic calls, no gas guzzling Interceptors, no college-education requirements.

I fought a speeding ticket and won but lost the roll-stop aspect and broke even.  By the time I was done several assistant-DA's were in the court to observe.