(PROJECT) The Metro/Tribune Lofts Expansion

[cannon_fodder]

Anyone know what the status is on Tribune II?

I was in the Brady for the 5x5 sale and there wasn't so much as a sign indicated they are thinking about maybe starting a project.

[sgrizzle]

It looks like they have made some progress as far as selling units:
http://tribunelofts.com/sales.htm

[cannon_fodder]

Does that mean it is 63% occupied, or that 63% are sold (70% with pending)?  That is to say, are the other units rented or just empty?

Also, that has no information on Tribune II.  Is that project on tract when Tribune I is fully occupied?  I kinda of assume it's yet another Tulsa project that is dead.

The prices aren't bad at all for the location and amenities.  If I worked downtown and didn't have kids, I'd have to seriously consider it.   BUT, like other's have pointed out the area is somewhat gutted (John 3:16 and jail issues again).  Bah, just hard to say.

Guess I'm disappointed that Tulsa doesn't seem to embrace the Condo concept that has made the Westport/Plaza area of Kansas City or the Downtown Area of Des Moines a lively place to be.   This is the pot talking, but still...

[OKC_Shane]

Wow, 90k! That's super cheap.. What's the square footage? At that price, I'm surprised more property investors aren't going after these units to rent out to TU students or something.

[si_uk_lon_ok]

Condo Conversion Put on Hold Indefinitely

 

quote: American Residential Group would like to thank everyone who has shown an interest in the Condo Conversion at the Tribune Lofts.  However, American Residential Group has decided to take the Tribune Lofts off the market indefinitely.  When American Residential Group started the Condo Conversion project we could not have anticipated the economic impact that the housing crunch would have on both Tulsa and the United States.  While we are truly optimistic about the Downtown Tulsa market, we know that timing is everything and the timing is just not right at this point for this Condo Conversion.  Therefore, until some of the Downtown Tulsa attractions and upcoming projects have progressed, we feel it is time to take the Tribune Lofts off the market.  We appreciate the interest that everyone has shown in the Condo Conversion of the Tribune Lofts.  With this in mind, American Residential Group is planning to re-evaluate the Condo Conversion and the Downtown Market in 2009.  We will maintain records on all potential buyers should we proceed with the conversion in the future.  Until then, all vacant units are now available for lease.

Real pity.

[cannon_fodder]

So I take it this means the expansion building is also off.

Yet another great example of why you should ignore all development announcements in Tulsa until they actually happen.  I'd say there is a 66% failure rate of announced projects.

Also, why not lease the units out AND offer them for sale?

[bokworker]

I have to believe that a major issue for the developer has nothing to do with demand but with the inability of interested buyers to get financing for condo's. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac have both significantly tightened the requirements on condo financing... to the point that it is almost impossible. FNM and FRE have lost so much money on big condo developments in Fla, Nev, Cal, and others that their lending requirements make it very difficult to obtain financing. As an example, they require that a minimum number of the units already be sold and owner occupied (51% to be exact and no investor owned), no developer owned, no "high rise", and high down payments (generally 20% or more). This is before they apply the normal underwritng requirements to the individual buyer. The biggest hurdle is the 51% sold requirement....which basically means that a developer has to be able to sell over half of the units to cash buyers or those that have financing available outside FNM or FRE. What my wife and I found when we were buying one of the MetroLoft units was that virtually no bank is going to make a mortgage unless it is FNM or FRE conforming. We got lucky (?) to be able to get financing because our development was small and we bought the last unit but, I was surprised at how difficult it was to do a 75% LTV, 30 year fixed loan with a 775+ FICO score.

The tightening credit standards are making it a lot harder to be succesful in developing these types of projects.....

[TheArtist]

I just think the timing is not right yet either. That area has a lot of potential and we will see some progress here in the next few years, but the Tribune Tower is still isolated and the area around it kind of, well a sea of parking and abandoned buildings. The Matthews warehouse conversion, the property across from that purchased by Kaiser will be redeveloped in a few years. Possibly a new baseball stadium and developments with that, and some other things I have heard rumors about, will in the next couple of years get that area of town anchored and moving to the point that it will be much more attractive for people to live there.  I bet in about 3 years we will see something happen with this. Its just not quite there yet as an attractive, bustling, lively, place to live. I wouldnt want to live there yet.

[Renaissance]

bokworker nailed it.  This is not a marketing failure so much as a financing failure brought on by the subprime bust.

[carltonplace]

Update on this project in the Tulsa World

Link to the Article

Authority OKs $4 million loan for second loft project
The Tulsa Development Authority approved a request Monday to recycle $4 million in 1996 sales tax funds for a companion project to the Tribune Lofts.
The 3-2 vote came despite questions over the process used to redistribute the public funds to American Residential Group for more residential units downtown.

"I think we've cut off our nose to spite our face," Julius Pegues, an authority member who cast one of the "no" votes, said after the special meeting Monday.

"We are not going to revitalize the downtown with high-end housing. We need affordable housing," he said.

American Residential proposes to build Tribune Lofts II at Archer and Main streets, directly west of the Tribune Lofts. The project would include 63 rental units and a parking garage that would service both it and the Tribune Lofts, which has 35 units.

Pegues said he also has concerns about the "process and lack of openness" regarding the reallocation of the funds.

"There were no requests for proposals presented," he said. "Other developers who wanted to do development housing downtown didn't get the opportunity to participate."

The other opposing vote was cast by Paula Bryant-Ellis, who said after the meeting that she has concerns about putting all of the funds into one project.

American Residential has a good project, but the money should be used to leverage several projects of all income developments, she said.

[cannon_fodder]

I agree with the concerns over openness, putting our eggs in one basket, and wanting a diversity of income... but am still excited to see this project inching forward.

Since I have lived in Tulsa I haven't seen a non-public building go UP in downtown Tulsa.

[Townsend]

I think it's great.  I've looked forward to this development for years...I'm not looking to live there but I'd love to see something take up that space.

Parking Garage...holy crap.

[sgrizzle]

Glad to see progress. This should fit in well with the plans other property owners have for Archer.

[DowntownNow]

This is a joke!  Those monies were supposed to be re-invested in other downtown development.  To have put all of the funds back into the same developer while leaving the others out in the cold that at least have already spent the money on acquiring downtown property for re-development (i.e. the ONG Building ZigZag is a part of).

This is the same developer that tried unsuccessfully already to sell their Tribune I loft residences.  That was a failure on so many levels...the most identifiable being that the poor quality of improvements made it hard for anyone to fathom paying that much for a loft residence.  This is a company that began as a rental apartment developer and that was evident in the improvements they made to the loft units.

This developer has already failed and we are relying on them to perform with the next project?  What clearer evidence does one need than their inability to sell their Tribune I lofts as was expressed in their original business model?  "Okay, so we failed with this one, but give us another chance and we'll see if we can do it better...oh and forget those other guys down the street."

This is why Tulsa is considered among the hardest for outside developers to work or invest in.  This insider network that gets to take advantage of public tax monies that should have been spread around to create a synergy for re-development.  The TDA is not doing its job in looking out for the interest of all Tulsans...it simply does it for the select few.

The Tribune II land contract was already signed, independent of any financing package although assurances were made that the financing was in place already and available.  Now the project can not get under way for lack of funding unless TDA steps in with a $4 million no interest loan.  Those funds will now be tied up and spur no further economic growth for the next 10 years!  Way to go TDA in seeking to accomplish your mission of encouraging private economic investment and re-development in the area!

I certainly hope the ZigZag project is able to move forward now that this opportunity has been stripped away.

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by DowntownNow

This is a joke!  Those monies were supposed to be re-invested in other downtown development.  To have put all of the funds back into the same developer while leaving the others out in the cold that at least have already spent the money on acquiring downtown property for re-development (i.e. the ONG Building ZigZag is a part of).

This is the same developer that tried unsuccessfully already to sell their Tribune I loft residences.  That was a failure on so many levels...the most identifiable being that the poor quality of improvements made it hard for anyone to fathom paying that much for a loft residence.  This is a company that began as a rental apartment developer and that was evident in the improvements they made to the loft units.

This developer has already failed and we are relying on them to perform with the next project?  What clearer evidence does one need than their inability to sell their Tribune I lofts as was expressed in their original business model?  "Okay, so we failed with this one, but give us another chance and we'll see if we can do it better...oh and forget those other guys down the street."

This is why Tulsa is considered among the hardest for outside developers to work or invest in.  This insider network that gets to take advantage of public tax monies that should have been spread around to create a synergy for re-development.  The TDA is not doing its job in looking out for the interest of all Tulsans...it simply does it for the select few.

The Tribune II land contract was already signed, independent of any financing package although assurances were made that the financing was in place already and available.  Now the project can not get under way for lack of funding unless TDA steps in with a $4 million no interest loan.  Those funds will now be tied up and spur no further economic growth for the next 10 years!  Way to go TDA in seeking to accomplish your mission of encouraging private economic investment and re-development in the area!

I certainly hope the ZigZag project is able to move forward now that this opportunity has been stripped away.

Rather than just writing here, you should probably take the time to write TDA as well. That way, you know for a fact that they have gotten your opinion.