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March 08, 2021, 05:30:40 am
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Author Topic: Zink Dam Rehabilitation Project  (Read 6752 times)
Vision 2025
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« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2020, 03:36:59 pm »

Ok that is good to hear. Thank you for the response to my concerns!
No worries and glad you asked, that last editorial/article that Kelly wrote was exceptionally one-sided.
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« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2020, 05:55:44 pm »

All of these concerns were vetted during the 404 Permit Review which included an extended public and agency comment periods.  The only endangered species is the Tern and the project includes the construction and maintenance of of a significant nesting island well downstream of the dam that is one of the very first items to be constructed.

With respect to the refinery, Holly has been at the table during the project design and has a known issue and a project to specifically address the bank seepage.

The additional depth provides for both a larger/deeper pool and provides some stored water for release down the recreationally flume between hydro releases.   The long term solution to low flow is the proposed upstream dam that the Corps of Engineers is presently beginning the Plans Phase for (there is a confirmed "Federal Interest" in this Project and funding was included in WRDA 2007) as an "Eco System Restoration Project" to store and release low flows between hydro cycles as was originally intended in the authorization of Keystone Dam.  Other than that it would require an Act of Congress (with significant re-occurring funding) to offset the value of the power generation in order to modify the water rights in Keystone to include an environmental and/or ascetic release which the Corps has studied extensively and found not to be a practical solution.    

Thanks for this detailed explanation.  Would you say outside of a severe drought in the OK/KS/CO watershed that this new dam will create the intended Zink Lake at some degree of varying depth?  A constant level Lake would allow water recreation in the lake like rowing, stand up paddle boarding and kayaking in addition to the whitewater kayaking in the flume.
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Vision 2025
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« Reply #32 on: August 19, 2020, 01:32:13 pm »

Outside of drought, as I recall the projections (which are based on historical flow data) when strictly in a pool preservation mode (including a round-the-clock minimum 50cfs discharge down the flume) we believe the lake would be at functional for in-lake recreation 90-99% of the time.  But if you add in larger recreational or environmental discharges that may go down, depending upon timing, local flows, Keystone releases and maintenance conditions.  

The interesting part is this will all become tools of the "Adaptive Management Plan." used to operate the facility, something that the original lake never had.    
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 01:42:57 pm by Vision 2025 » Logged

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« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2020, 02:14:29 pm »

Outside of drought, as I recall the projections (which are based on historical flow data) when strictly in a pool preservation mode (including a round-the-clock minimum 50cfs discharge down the flume) we believe the lake would be at functional for in-lake recreation 90-99% of the time.  But if you add in larger recreational or environmental discharges that may go down, depending upon timing, local flows, Keystone releases and maintenance conditions.  

The interesting part is this will all become tools of the "Adaptive Management Plan." used to operate the facility, something that the original lake never had.    

Do you foresee being able to have rental operations for kayaks adjacent to the flume, and would this be operated by RiverParks?  Not sure if they could do stand up paddleboarding, maybe further back from the dam/whitewater flume.  I would love to be able to rent a kayak out on Zink Lake and go from the Gathering Place over to Blue Rose and up by the Rt 66 bridge.  I've seen kayaks and rowers out there but never in large numbers.
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Vision 2025
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« Reply #34 on: August 20, 2020, 10:13:13 am »

Do you foresee being able to have rental operations for kayaks adjacent to the flume, and would this be operated by RiverParks?  Not sure if they could do stand up paddleboarding, maybe further back from the dam/whitewater flume.  I would love to be able to rent a kayak out on Zink Lake and go from the Gathering Place over to Blue Rose and up by the Rt 66 bridge.  I've seen kayaks and rowers out there but never in large numbers.
Unsure, but the potential is there.  This is likely a question for the River Parks Authority.
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« Reply #35 on: August 20, 2020, 10:26:41 am »

Unsure, but the potential is there.  This is likely a question for the River Parks Authority.

Might be a question for River Parks too - but is it even permitted for rental businesses to set up facilities to rent out kayaks, paddle boards, etc.? Or would something like that have to go through the Corps or something else?

Beyond just having water present, what will really make that area feel so much different is if people are actually utilizing the new lake. Frankly that's what make the 'vibe' in Austin seem so different from many other cities is there's hundreds of people out on the water every day and they have 20-30 different places to rent kayaks, paddle boards, swam boats, etc. along Towne Lake and I'd love to see that along the shoreline in Tulsa too.

I seem to remember that the engineering of this new dam is supposed to make being out on the water a lot safer right? The last one I believe there were a lot of current issues near the damn that made it dangerous for water recreation.
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Vision 2025
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« Reply #36 on: August 20, 2020, 01:59:10 pm »

Might be a question for River Parks too - but is it even permitted for rental businesses to set up facilities to rent out kayaks, paddle boards, etc.? Or would something like that have to go through the Corps or something else?

Beyond just having water present, what will really make that area feel so much different is if people are actually utilizing the new lake. Frankly that's what make the 'vibe' in Austin seem so different from many other cities is there's hundreds of people out on the water every day and they have 20-30 different places to rent kayaks, paddle boards, swam boats, etc. along Towne Lake and I'd love to see that along the shoreline in Tulsa too.

I seem to remember that the engineering of this new dam is supposed to make being out on the water a lot safer right? The last one I believe there were a lot of current issues near the damn that made it dangerous for water recreation.
 
That would still be with the River Parks Authority as they manage/control all the available shore line access and the USACE has no jurisdiction other than for regulatory compliance via the 404 and related permits.

I agree completely and believe activity is critical.

Yes I would consider this dam design to be "safer" than before but it is still a flowing river to be respected.  Interestingly, one of the reasons for making the dam higher is/was actually safety as by making the dam higher the pool becomes longer and provides larger boatable area further from the dam for in-lake activities and downstream there are multiple measures intended to reduce the roller effects associated with flow over any dam.  
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 02:22:39 pm by Vision 2025 » Logged

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« Reply #37 on: August 20, 2020, 04:08:52 pm »

Might be a question for River Parks too - but is it even permitted for rental businesses to set up facilities to rent out kayaks, paddle boards, etc.? Or would something like that have to go through the Corps or something else?

Beyond just having water present, what will really make that area feel so much different is if people are actually utilizing the new lake. Frankly that's what make the 'vibe' in Austin seem so different from many other cities is there's hundreds of people out on the water every day and they have 20-30 different places to rent kayaks, paddle boards, swam boats, etc. along Towne Lake and I'd love to see that along the shoreline in Tulsa too.

I seem to remember that the engineering of this new dam is supposed to make being out on the water a lot safer right? The last one I believe there were a lot of current issues near the damn that made it dangerous for water recreation.

A few differences between Tulsa and Austin in this regard:
1) I believe Lady Bird Lake is controlled by the City of Austin, much easier to deal with than the USACE which controls the Arkansas (RiverParks controls the banks)
2) The Arkansas is nearly 3x wider than Lady Bird Lake so it can be rougher especially on days with strong north and south winds
3) The Arkansas has a higher flow rate and stronger current, not sure how the new dam will affect that
4) There is a dam that creates Lady Bird Lake but it's a traditional dam not a "low water dam"
5) There are more industrial zones upstream of the river in Tulsa, in Austin it's mostly residential until you get to downtown

Just saying there are some challenges Tulsa has that Austin does not. 
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #38 on: August 20, 2020, 10:02:15 pm »

A few differences between Tulsa and Austin in this regard:
1) I believe Lady Bird Lake is controlled by the City of Austin, much easier to deal with than the USACE which controls the Arkansas (RiverParks controls the banks)
2) The Arkansas is nearly 3x wider than Lady Bird Lake so it can be rougher especially on days with strong north and south winds
3) The Arkansas has a higher flow rate and stronger current, not sure how the new dam will affect that
4) There is a dam that creates Lady Bird Lake but it's a traditional dam not a "low water dam"
5) There are more industrial zones upstream of the river in Tulsa, in Austin it's mostly residential until you get to downtown

Just saying there are some challenges Tulsa has that Austin does not. 

For sure there's a good number of advantages to Towne Lake that make it more recreational friendly like you mentioned. The shoreline has a much steeper topographically that allows the pool level to be a lot higher there in comparison to the Arkansas. Just am hoping that the new dam would make it a bit safer for recreational uses like kayaking in that area for parts of the year like late spring through summer. There will be periods of the year during early spring/fall when heavy rains probably will cause Zink Lake to not be the best place for those actives when the water flow is very fast. But having people out on the river I think would really change the feeling of the area and be something more unique you don't see in many cities outside of places like Austin, especially if we can get some redevelopment along the West Bank along the city owned land and the concrete plant to the north. 
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« Reply #39 on: August 21, 2020, 11:39:31 am »

For sure there's a good number of advantages to Towne Lake that make it more recreational friendly like you mentioned. The shoreline has a much steeper topographically that allows the pool level to be a lot higher there in comparison to the Arkansas. Just am hoping that the new dam would make it a bit safer for recreational uses like kayaking in that area for parts of the year like late spring through summer. There will be periods of the year during early spring/fall when heavy rains probably will cause Zink Lake to not be the best place for those actives when the water flow is very fast. But having people out on the river I think would really change the feeling of the area and be something more unique you don't see in many cities outside of places like Austin, especially if we can get some redevelopment along the West Bank along the city owned land and the concrete plant to the north. 

Absolutely, the whitewater flume alone will be an amenity few cities have especially outside of the Mountain West.  That combined with the new bridge will make that a really cool area.  I would love to one day see the concrete plant turned into a park space but with more open space for outdoor concerts and events, basically an enlarged River West festival park, with some kind of cultural attraction and improved harbor area at the Cove for water activities.

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Arkansas Rio Gator
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« Reply #40 on: January 19, 2021, 09:41:00 pm »

http://www.quadrelec.com/public/zink%20dam-promises%20made.pdf

Looks like no one had posted this.
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #41 on: January 25, 2021, 07:33:54 pm »

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/city-council-has-more-questions-on-need-to-build-new-pedestrian-bridge-over-arkansas-river/article_8ad8ab64-5f36-11eb-b0ac-8f3ffe73c385.html#tracking-source=home-the-latest

Looks like the movement is picking up steam!

Now would have been such a great time to be building those new piers...
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« Reply #42 on: January 26, 2021, 11:09:14 am »


Doesn't sound like this stops construction just that they will provide more info on why they are replacing the bridge.  

Quote
Jeff Stava, director and trustee of Tulsa’s Gathering Place LLC., said demolition of the old bridge and construction of the new one will begin as soon as the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers issues permits, which is imminent.

Quote
Councilor Jeannie Cue said city engineers have told her there is no way to save the bridge but that she wants a public discussion of the issue to ensure that everyone understands the reasoning.

“I am hearing from people who want more information about why we can’t save the bridge,” Cue said. “We just want answers for our constituents.”
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Arkansas Rio Gator
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« Reply #43 on: January 26, 2021, 05:18:58 pm »

You are BOTH right. Momentum is still picking up (and yes! You're right about the piers heh). On the other hand, it appears that some have NO intention of listening to the public interest on this issue at all. Many requests to have this put on a regular meeting agenda, so the public can actually discuss it in public forum, have been denied.

When that bridge is demolished, remember, the public was NEVER given a legitimate say in this. The public was told that there was no choice, back when; that there were no good options; etc. That was not true. And even today, many are saying, don't demolish it, give it another evaluation. And, once again, by all indications, the public is going to be denied the chance to keep this historic bridge.

I guess I should post a little of the new stuff on the bridge thread, maybe some today and maybe some another day...

P.S. As for the dam, I don't know the facts, but I did find that document interesting.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 05:23:56 pm by Arkansas Rio Gator » Logged
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« Reply #44 on: January 27, 2021, 09:17:56 am »

Follow the money.  There is money to be made both in destroying the Pedestrian Bridge and building a new one.
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