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November 24, 2020, 12:39:04 am
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Author Topic: Pedestrian Bridge  (Read 45131 times)
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« Reply #165 on: August 21, 2020, 11:41:28 am »

Looking forward to this project starting later this year, and having this view in a couple years..

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rebound
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« Reply #166 on: August 21, 2020, 11:52:43 am »

Sounds like a little bit of wishful thinking.  When there is the kind of water we had this year, even Keystone itself didn't help, so how is an extra 3 ft and some different gates downstream gonna help?   It will give many people a "feel good" moment, though.

Not sure what you are asking.   Obviously, if there is a flood and they open the gates on Keystone, then the water is going to rise downstream and will go over the dam.   But adding the three feet and utilizing the flume as basically an overflow channel will greatly reduce the water level variability in the pool.  Adding the extra height will also create more lake above the dam, which will moderate the flow issues as well, by allowing buffer for the flow and holding that extra water for times of low flow.

I remember when the current dam actually worked, and there was water in the river virtually all the time and the crew club was out on the lake regularly, as were others in kayaks and canoes.  Very excited to see this all get fixed and have a new and better lake.
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Arkansas Rio Gator
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« Reply #167 on: September 05, 2020, 01:27:19 pm »

" I’ve taken visitors to the Gathering Place and usually get the question 'what is going on with the riverfront and bridge?'  That and what’s up with the gravel parking areas..."

Not surprised to hear this. I wish the bridge and its surrounding area across from the Blair property had been more capably handled. This was a special part of the river trail, and it has not been the same since the beginning of the new park's construction. With all that money being thrown around, a better solution should have been come up with by now...or rather...before now. Some people who loved the original bridge are no longer with us, a close friend of mine included.

Now begins another prolonged construction process, and I am not holding my breath. And I still am not sure I believe the original bridge could not have been salvaged, had anyone in charge really wanted to.

I don't believe Mr. Stava was a regular visitor to the River Parks before the GP was built. If he had been, more of what used to be special would have been preserved along with the nice new things.

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« Reply #168 on: September 07, 2020, 10:11:53 am »

" I’ve taken visitors to the Gathering Place and usually get the question 'what is going on with the riverfront and bridge?'  That and what’s up with the gravel parking areas..."

Not surprised to hear this. I wish the bridge and its surrounding area across from the Blair property had been more capably handled. This was a special part of the river trail, and it has not been the same since the beginning of the new park's construction. With all that money being thrown around, a better solution should have been come up with by now...or rather...before now. Some people who loved the original bridge are no longer with us, a close friend of mine included.

Now begins another prolonged construction process, and I am not holding my breath. And I still am not sure I believe the original bridge could not have been salvaged, had anyone in charge really wanted to.

I don't believe Mr. Stava was a regular visitor to the River Parks before the GP was built. If he had been, more of what used to be special would have been preserved along with the nice new things.

The current bridge while historical is not particularly beautiful or noteworthy.  I think the new bridge will be a significant improvement along with the new dam and whitewater flume.  Looking forward to the river banks improvements along GP and that chain link fence coming down.  In 2023 all of this work should be completed along with phase 2 of GP which will take care of the gravel lots.  Hopefully the Crow Creek Trail is underway by then.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #169 on: September 07, 2020, 11:03:21 am »

Not sure what you are asking.   Obviously, if there is a flood and they open the gates on Keystone, then the water is going to rise downstream and will go over the dam.   But adding the three feet and utilizing the flume as basically an overflow channel will greatly reduce the water level variability in the pool.  Adding the extra height will also create more lake above the dam, which will moderate the flow issues as well, by allowing buffer for the flow and holding that extra water for times of low flow.

I remember when the current dam actually worked, and there was water in the river virtually all the time and the crew club was out on the lake regularly, as were others in kayaks and canoes.  Very excited to see this all get fixed and have a new and better lake.


Whew!  Way back time machine post - had to go review.  I wasn't sure what 3 feet would do that original level wouldn't do.  Still not sure.  When it gets dry, it will still go down, maybe to a higher 'low' level, but flow over the kayak falls will still stop at some point.  Could help, though, and I am certainly waiting to see - I would like to go fishing there sometime again!




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« Reply #170 on: September 08, 2020, 01:47:26 pm »

This TW article indicates the current funding for the bridge is sufficient just for the structure itself and that amenities like shade structures will not be part of it, unless they are funded separately.  It also included these new renderings:





https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/gatheringplace/gathering-place-to-grow-with-pedestrian-bridge-project/article_49b60bfc-eeb3-11ea-acd5-9787e4e61513.html



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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #171 on: September 09, 2020, 02:19:11 pm »

This TW article indicates the current funding for the bridge is sufficient just for the structure itself and that amenities like shade structures will not be part of it, unless they are funded separately.  It also included these new renderings:





https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/gatheringplace/gathering-place-to-grow-with-pedestrian-bridge-project/article_49b60bfc-eeb3-11ea-acd5-9787e4e61513.html





The renderings showing the actual top part of the bridge is super disappointing. I can't believe there's no shade structures designed into it. That bridge will bake in the summer time being out in the office and sun reflecting off the water. I can see why the architect never showed those as much as the renderings where you're looking at it from below.

The KKT design I think was far, far better and had shade areas built into the design.

I think this will still be visually appealing, but how useful it will be in parts of the year I guess we will have to wait and see. That's frankly the best thing about the old bridge was it was covered and was super pleasant to be on during most of the year.
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TulsaBeMore
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« Reply #172 on: September 10, 2020, 10:42:43 pm »

The renderings showing the actual top part of the bridge is super disappointing. I can't believe there's no shade structures designed into it. That bridge will bake in the summer time being out in the office and sun reflecting off the water. I can see why the architect never showed those as much as the renderings where you're looking at it from below.

The KKT design I think was far, far better and had shade areas built into the design.

I think this will still be visually appealing, but how useful it will be in parts of the year I guess we will have to wait and see. That's frankly the best thing about the old bridge was it was covered and was super pleasant to be on during most of the year.

Kind of hideous IMO - Zero "personality." 
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #173 on: September 11, 2020, 07:17:47 am »

If we're spending this much money on a bridge, it should be iconic. A landmark for our city.

What's worse, this isn't what was originally proposed when the design was selected from others. Here are some photos of the original design with shad structures and seating in the middle: https://www.newson6.com/story/5e35f7b32f69d76f6202afe4/the-gateway-design-selected-as-tulsas-new-pedestrian-bridge

Here are the final four again, if you have a TW subscription: https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/pedestrian-bridge-design-narrowed-to-four-options-public-input-sought/article_424da06b-71da-564f-a3a9-fafa0cf3ae73.html

Out of 233 submissions, they picked a pretty basic design and then dumbed it down farther. Disappointing.

I guess the costs of everything around the bridge eat into the costs of the overall project. If they hadn't completely FUBAR'ed the gathering place budget, they could have finished the river side portion and then the bridge could have been focused on apart from all that.
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« Reply #174 on: September 11, 2020, 11:10:55 am »

If we're spending this much money on a bridge, it should be iconic. A landmark for our city.

What's worse, this isn't what was originally proposed when the design was selected from others. Here are some photos of the original design with shad structures and seating in the middle: https://www.newson6.com/story/5e35f7b32f69d76f6202afe4/the-gateway-design-selected-as-tulsas-new-pedestrian-bridge

Here are the final four again, if you have a TW subscription: https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/pedestrian-bridge-design-narrowed-to-four-options-public-input-sought/article_424da06b-71da-564f-a3a9-fafa0cf3ae73.html

Out of 233 submissions, they picked a pretty basic design and then dumbed it down farther. Disappointing.

I guess the costs of everything around the bridge eat into the costs of the overall project. If they hadn't completely FUBAR'ed the gathering place budget, they could have finished the river side portion and then the bridge could have been focused on apart from all that.

While not the best outcome the new bridge will still be a major improvement and finally tie everything together.  I feel like the Gathering Place, while amazing, is missing the riverfront interaction that this bridge, the dam and whitewater flume and riverbank improvements along the trail will bring.  Having the Phase 2 portion completed with the gravel lots gone and the new science museum will complete the portion along Riverside.  
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #175 on: September 11, 2020, 01:23:15 pm »

While not the best outcome the new bridge will still be a major improvement and finally tie everything together.  I feel like the Gathering Place, while amazing, is missing the riverfront interaction that this bridge, the dam and whitewater flume and riverbank improvements along the trail will bring.  Having the Phase 2 portion completed with the gravel lots gone and the new science museum will complete the portion along Riverside.  

Out of all the things they could have cut, shade structures should not have been one of them. I really hope the bridge is built in a fashion that they can be added later if a donor steps up with the funds.

Even though I preferred some of the other designs I think this will still look nice when done, just concerned about how usable it will be through much of the year if people bake. I'm also very concerned that it looks like they've gotten rid of a lot of the seating areas and that has become an after thought.

Pfluger Pedestrian Bridge in Austin isn't much of a looker - but the pedestrian experience is great and not just for runners/bikers. It's a place to just wonder across and can sit or stand and look out. I'd just hope the end design for ours incorporates some better pedestrian experience.

Otherwise it will be useless outside of looking at it from the Gathering Place.
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« Reply #176 on: September 11, 2020, 01:51:12 pm »

Anyone know if there will be any kind of public access to the island between the dam and whitewater flume?  It doesn't look like it but I can't tell.



Also wondering how they plan to light up the bridge at night, the current renderings no longer show the lights like they had shown before.  Lit-up railings on each side would be a cool effect.
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« Reply #177 on: September 11, 2020, 02:01:41 pm »

This was also a problem with the old bridge that doesn't look like it is being addressed: mixing bikes with joggers/pedestrians.  They need to have a bike lane along the bridge or else it will be a cluster.

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TulsaBeMore
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« Reply #178 on: September 11, 2020, 09:06:12 pm »

If we're spending this much money on a bridge, it should be iconic. A landmark for our city.

What's worse, this isn't what was originally proposed when the design was selected from others. Here are some photos of the original design with shad structures and seating in the middle: https://www.newson6.com/story/5e35f7b32f69d76f6202afe4/the-gateway-design-selected-as-tulsas-new-pedestrian-bridge

Here are the final four again, if you have a TW subscription: https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/pedestrian-bridge-design-narrowed-to-four-options-public-input-sought/article_424da06b-71da-564f-a3a9-fafa0cf3ae73.html

Out of 233 submissions, they picked a pretty basic design and then dumbed it down farther. Disappointing.

I guess the costs of everything around the bridge eat into the costs of the overall project. If they hadn't completely FUBAR'ed the gathering place budget, they could have finished the river side portion and then the bridge could have been focused on apart from all that.


When it takes 3-5 years between allocating the money and the start of construction, the cost isn't going to be anywhere near what was projected at the start.  I don't understand why this, the BMX facility and nearly everything else we vote on takes years to go from the vote to the start of construction --- forget about opening.  And while I'm irritated, this city loves studies - we love to pay someone a couple hundred grand to study something into dust.  And then 90% of the time, the study is the thing - it's almost like there was never any intention to do anything but the study.  It's ridiculous.  PlanitTulsa?  Tell me I'm wrong and don't understand how these things go, but if it takes a decade or longer from idea/concept to ground breaking --- what's the point?   


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Arkansas Rio Gator
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« Reply #179 on: September 23, 2020, 12:44:39 pm »

   SXSW in reply #168 writes

   “The current bridge while historical is not particularly beautiful or noteworthy.”

   I respectfully disagree. Two basic points in this post…

   (1) The design as incorporated into the historical railroad bridge actually is noteworthy from a creative-design architectural standpoint. Credit goes to Memphis architect Roy Harrover. In the book The Tulsa River, Ann Patton writes:

   “The idea had been to remove the old tracks and replace them with a walking path, but ‘Harrover said, you can’t do that. Take out the braces and build the trail underneath the structure, so people don’t have to climb a ladder to get to the walkway, and they can walk out of the sun. It was a brilliant solution,’ remembered Len Eaton.”
  
   Patton also writes that “The Pedestrian Bridge is key to the recreation potential of Tulsa’s stretch of the Arkansas River.” That is one thing I was getting at in my first post on this topic…when putting in the new park, the already existing “key” spot in Tulsa’s River Parks was marred and remains that way; a most unfortunate case of mismanagement. Now why was it key? Not only for its connective function, but for the pedestrian experience, itself. See point two for more about this.

   (I will not go into the thought that “‘The bridge could serve as a symbol of the river itself,’ Bubenik said when the Pedestrian Bridge was dedicated in July 1975…” [All my quotations from Patton’s book are from page 33.])

   (2) The pedestrian experience on the Midland Valley Bridge was, itself, often most beautiful and noteworthy. Visually cool (the water, the views of downtown and Turkey Mountain, the wildlife…). Historically cool. Physically cool (for instance, that old wooden bounce). And cool temperatures with sufficient shade cover… Do you know how many people of all ages and ethnicities I have seen enjoying that bridge in my lifetime? (Note: I borrow the phrase “the pedestrian experience” from LandArchPoke in reply #175.)

   To quote LandArchPoke related to the shade point (quoting from post #171), “the old bridge…was covered and was super pleasant to be on during most of the year.” And speaking of the new bridge, in contrast: “I can't believe there's no shade structures designed into it.” Terrible.

   Regarding the statement in reply #174, “While not the best outcome the new bridge will still be a major improvement,” I agree only that it will be an improvement over the newly created problem (now years old) of no functioning pedestrian bridge at all. It is still my opinion as of this writing that the new $bridge$ should remain a “castle in the air” (or on paper) and the possibility of saving the old bridge be reevaluated…

   At the VERY LEAST put in a replacement which is not obviously inferior (beyond the issue of "authentic character") in any major category as regards the pedestrian experience...
« Last Edit: September 23, 2020, 12:52:38 pm by Arkansas Rio Gator » Logged
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