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April 24, 2018, 06:56:11 pm
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patric
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« Reply #255 on: February 27, 2018, 02:35:00 pm »


The wooing has already started...


Lets send G.T.
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erfalf
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« Reply #256 on: February 27, 2018, 03:07:03 pm »

Can you imagine the bidding war for the Delta HQ and hub? Beyond the jobs, overnight a city would have connections to every major market in the world for all their other companies, and future companies. The bidding war would be immense.

See the mid cities area of Dallas for a prime example of what happens.
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« Reply #257 on: February 27, 2018, 04:49:51 pm »

Phoenix, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Columbus and even cities like Tulsa and OKC would go all out to get Delta. 

And there are cities like Memphis, Nashville and St Louis that have airports that USED to be major hubs and easily could be again and badly want to be again.

Georgia is playing with fire to win points with gun nuts.
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rebound
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« Reply #258 on: February 27, 2018, 06:14:13 pm »

Phoenix, Kansas City, Cincinnati, Milwaukee, Indianapolis, Columbus and even cities like Tulsa and OKC would go all out to get Delta. 

And there are cities like Memphis, Nashville and St Louis that have airports that USED to be major hubs and easily could be again and badly want to be again.

Georgia is playing with fire to win points with gun nuts.


Memphis would be a perfect relocation.   Delta started in Monroe, LA (Not quite the Mississippi Delta, but more fitting than Atlanta).    I was doing some work for ASA several years ago in Monroe, and was in one of the original hangers.

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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #259 on: February 28, 2018, 08:32:53 am »

I'm generally in agreement with your statement but it is beneficial to the people who end up with high paying jobs with full benefits even though they may be shafted as a taxpayer by the corporate welfare.  I doubt that is on their mind when they are going through the hiring process and I doubt many people fail to apply because it offends their civic principles.

In my day job (I'm not quite sure which one that is anymore since I have so many titles now) I have to mentally balance what is good for business and my obligations to the company I represent vs. when I think a project is sticking it to the tax payers because of unnecessary items put into bid packages or when I think the government is pissing money into infrastructure it doesn't need to or putting it in the right places.

I cannot really blame the company actors (let alone employees), they are acting in their best interest according to the rules laid out. If the government ever decided to give me piles of cash to help towards making myself wealthier, I'd take it.  I'd then demand more in a few years (out of gratitude).

And of course the people who get a solid job out of the deal are happy about it., but that doesn't make it an economically productive venture in a micro or macro sense.  A bank robbery is very profitable for the crook, but that doesn't make it a productive activity overall.   

Companies are generally rational actors motivated by the prospect of making money.  If producing more widget will make them more money, then they need a new or larger widget factory.  That factory will be built where it is economically advantageous and convenient.    Handing over tax payer money might change the math on where the plant will be located (studies suggest it doesn't have the impact we assume), but it rarely decides IF a plant will be built.  As a whole, the economy loses out by inefficiently transferring wealth from the masses to areas of concentration (generally large companies).  Every city that doesn't "win" loses out, the vast majority of tax payers in the "winning" city also lose, business in competition with the recipient of tax payer money lose out, and small businesses that don't have the political muscle to extort cash from governments lose out.  Many, many small losers - and a few very vocal, happy, and wealthy winners who want to do everything they can to keep the benefits flowing to them.

So it's hard for individual governments so stop playing the game. It's the prisoners dilemma of economics... we all win if we all stop playing.  Instead it is getting worse and billions more each year are handed over.  If we don't act together, then those willing to sell out the hardest might "win" and we all lose.  Hence, an agreement or rule to stop the game would be a good idea.

https://www.citylab.com/life/2017/03/business-tax-incentives-waste/518754/
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« Reply #260 on: February 28, 2018, 09:35:48 am »

Can you imagine the bidding war for the Delta HQ and hub? Beyond the jobs, overnight a city would have connections to every major market in the world for all their other companies, and future companies. The bidding war would be immense.

Or not.  Even IF Delta were to move its HQ, their Atlanta hub is not going anywhere.  (and of course, the chances of a HQ move are about the same as Tulsa's chances in the Amazon sweepstakes.)
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patric
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« Reply #261 on: March 01, 2018, 04:25:38 pm »

Or not.  Even IF Delta were to move its HQ, their Atlanta hub is not going anywhere.  (and of course, the chances of a HQ move are about the same as Tulsa's chances in the Amazon sweepstakes.)

How the NRA fight between Delta and Georgia could roil Atlanta's Amazon headquarters bid
https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2018/03/01/amazon-second-headquarters-atlanta-nra-georgia-delta-airlines-gun-control/382331002/
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patric
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« Reply #262 on: March 02, 2018, 11:30:38 am »

“Corporations cannot attack conservatives and expect us not to fight back.” (Notice how he defines an attack: no longer offering a special discount.)

Cagle... sought to punish a business for declining to associate with a political organization, and he did so by changing his position on a tax bill. He abused his power and decided policy based on factors other than the public interest, in order to help the NRA. It’s a disturbing precedent—and if he’s rewarded for it politically, others may follow his lead.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/03/a-georgia-republicans-unethical-revenge-plot/554711/

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"Tulsa will lay off police and firemen before we will cut back on unnecessarily wasteful streetlights."  -- March 18, 2009 TulsaNow Forum
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« Reply #263 on: March 15, 2018, 09:08:57 am »

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/15/not-welcome-here-amazon-faces-growing-resistance-to-its-second-home

Figured it was a matter of time before this line of thought got some traction. Particularly after everyone has actually had to fairly assess what comes with all those glorious jobs Amazon will be bringing.
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« Reply #264 on: March 15, 2018, 11:03:21 am »

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/15/not-welcome-here-amazon-faces-growing-resistance-to-its-second-home

Figured it was a matter of time before this line of thought got some traction. Particularly after everyone has actually had to fairly assess what comes with all those glorious jobs Amazon will be bringing.

That is an interesting article, but here is the money quote on the likely effect of this small movement:

"Despite the breadth of the opposition to Amazon among academics and community activists, however, just four elected officials from finalist cities have signed on to the non-aggression pact."

Maybe Richard Florida is correct and that politicians who support all those tax incentives in the winning city will pay an electoral price, but I think it is highly unlikely except maybe in a unique city like D.C.
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