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November 21, 2017, 07:59:35 pm
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Author Topic: Iron Gate  (Read 25798 times)
Conan71
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« Reply #240 on: November 02, 2016, 06:30:52 pm »

Its important to note that because if you identify them as "homeless", the solutions tend to center around finding structures for them when that is not their real need. We tend to think they want what we want, good homes, good jobs, family and respect. Maybe, but first they want to get high, get normal, get a buzz.



Thread winner, letís move on.
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Bamboo World
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« Reply #241 on: November 02, 2016, 08:13:07 pm »


The topic is about Iron Gate's proposed new development on vacant land in downtown Tulsa, near 7th & Frankfort.

The proposed move to 3rd & Peoria was fraught with too many problems, so Iron Gate has a new proposal to move only a few blocks from their current location.

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Bamboo World
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« Reply #242 on: November 09, 2016, 08:20:09 pm »


The Downtown Coordinating Council (DCC) recommends denial of a special zoning code exception for Iron Gate's proposed site near 7th & Frankfort...

November 9, 2016 Tulsa World online article by Mike Averill

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DTowner
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« Reply #243 on: November 10, 2016, 10:29:13 am »

The Downtown Coordinating Council (DCC) recommends denial of a special zoning code exception for Iron Gate's proposed site near 7th & Frankfort...

November 9, 2016 Tulsa World online article by Mike Averill

"Iron Gate officials said they had hoped to have a traffic light installed at Seventh Street and Frankfort Avenue to address those concerns."

That would really create a traffic disaster during morning rush hour.  The traffic already backs up substantially from the Elgin light and adding one at Frankfort would cause traffic to back up onto the exit ramps.  Additionally, many cars change lanes in this area and a light would make that more difficult and more risky.

I think this underscores the problem with this location for IG's core clientele.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #244 on: November 10, 2016, 12:34:25 pm »

"Iron Gate officials said they had hoped to have a traffic light installed at Seventh Street and Frankfort Avenue to address those concerns."

That would really create a traffic disaster during morning rush hour.  The traffic already backs up substantially from the Elgin light and adding one at Frankfort would cause traffic to back up onto the exit ramps.  Additionally, many cars change lanes in this area and a light would make that more difficult and more risky.

I think this underscores the problem with this location for IG's core clientele.


I agree. That is madness they "had hoped to have a traffic light installed at Seventh Street and Frankfort Avenue". I wonder if they whispered that quietly hoping it went unnoticed.

Exiting the ramp off of a highway, going downhill.. A stoplight there would impede that exit ramp and could backup traffic on to the expressway and that ramp being backed up could cause traffic to back up to the BA/75 northbound exit on busy mornings. Ridiculous idea.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #245 on: November 10, 2016, 12:42:29 pm »

The Downtown Coordinating Council (DCC) recommends denial of a special zoning code exception for Iron Gate's proposed site near 7th & Frankfort...

November 9, 2016 Tulsa World online article by Mike Averill


Good. Someone needs to stand up for all the investments and future of downtown (who wants hundreds of transients making that daily trek?). They specifically say the NW part of downtown is slated for this sort of development.  The excuse that no lots there fit their needs is probably just that... an excuse. This sounds like they are just trying anything they can to politically fight to get in the better parts of the IDL. Maybe they picked this new terrible spot because they want the homeless wandering from the Day Center through the central business district and nice parts each day to "spread the wealth". Misery loves company.
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cannon_fodder
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« Reply #246 on: November 10, 2016, 01:45:24 pm »

Any idea why they don't take the obvious path and move to the area where most of the other social services are?
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davideinstein
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« Reply #247 on: November 13, 2016, 10:27:44 am »

Any idea why they don't take the obvious path and move to the area where most of the other social services are?

Same reason Tulsans don't take the obvious path and support the poor no matter where they are placed.
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davideinstein
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« Reply #248 on: November 13, 2016, 10:28:36 am »

Same reason Tulsans don't take the obvious path and support the poor no matter where they are placed.

Reason being nobody seems interested in actually attaching the issue at hand.
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« Reply #249 on: November 14, 2016, 08:48:55 am »

Reason being nobody seems interested in actually attaching the issue at hand.

Same reason Tulsans don't take the obvious path and support the poor no matter where they are placed.

I assume you are just baiting a bit with these last two comments.  Most all the people on here commenting advocate for supporting the working poor (and those people are not the ones on the street) , but rather there is considerable discussion and questioning regarding what to do about/with the chronically homeless.  Particularly for that segment of the the population, simply providing food with no expectation of lifestyle change is,  as one of my politically incorrect friends is apt to say, simply "feeding the bears".  

Understand that I write this as someone who is personally active in volunteering, and who's kids both regularly volunteer the various Tulsa food pantries, etc.  (My son was at one all day last Saturday)   But suggesting that the best way to address the chronically homeless problem in Tulsa is to simply provide food (or any other means of support for that matter), wherever there are homeless is illogical.  Truly "attacking the issue at hand"  will require a more coordinated response from among the various groups, and it will definitely require an expectation of change and adaptation from those being served.   Otherwise, we are just enabling and perpetuating the problem.

(sorry, two edits in the above.  Can't write this morning...)
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 08:50:55 am by rebound » Logged

 
cannon_fodder
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« Reply #250 on: November 14, 2016, 09:08:48 am »

My question is serious. Iron Gate has been told twice now that moving will be difficult, and nudged to look at the area where social services are centralized. It costs money, effort, and political capital every time this issues comes up.  Is there inertia to move over by the David L Moss, is there a lack of land for sale at reasonable prices, is it too far from the old location, or do they not want to locate in that area for other reasons?

I'm not saying Iron Gate is obligated to throw in the towel and go where they are encouraged to, just wondering if anyone knows if they are reluctant to do so and, if so, why?
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Conan71
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« Reply #251 on: November 14, 2016, 09:24:19 am »

My question is serious. Iron Gate has been told twice now that moving will be difficult, and nudged to look at the area where social services are centralized. It costs money, effort, and political capital every time this issues comes up.  Is there inertia to move over by the David L Moss, is there a lack of land for sale at reasonable prices, is it too far from the old location, or do they not want to locate in that area for other reasons?

I'm not saying Iron Gate is obligated to throw in the towel and go where they are encouraged to, just wondering if anyone knows if they are reluctant to do so and, if so, why?

Perhaps they are trying to mainstream the homeless population by not going the obvious route and taking their program to the jail and social services area near the DL Moss.  This goes back to a conversation I had with a city official a couple of years ago when the city was trying to negotiate a land swap for Simon Properties to build their proposed outlet mall on the west side of Hwy 75 rather than on the site they chose on Turkey Mountain.  That would have necessitated razing the low income apartment complex which is NE of the intersection of 61st & Union.

I asked how well that might go over taking away affordable housing and rebuilding elsewhere.  The response was that they thought it would be a good idea to get those living in low income housing dispersed throughout other neighborhoods as the example of people working and going to school might inspire them to change their circumstances.  I don't care for the idea of creating ghettos but I also am highly skeptical of social engineering vis-a-vis sticking section 8 housing in otherwise stable neighborhoods.  I'm thinking that might not go over well at 111th & Yale or in Maple Ridge.
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« Reply #252 on: November 14, 2016, 09:26:58 am »

Same reason Tulsans don't take the obvious path and support the poor no matter where they are placed.

Except that we do support the poor. Tulsans are among the most philanthropic in the nation with very high donations per capita and one of the lowest homeless rates in the nation. Furthermore, we already donate enough to provide housing for every single chronically homeless person, there just isn't one cohesive effort to provide that. Currently, if you agree to not do drugs or alcohol, you can find a shelter to stay at in Tulsa. The Denver House has a project, "Better Box", which is aiming to follow Utah's path to providing housing for all homeless without the requirement to quit drinking or using.

Please learn some facts before posting inflammatory nonsense.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 09:28:38 am by TulsaGoldenHurriCAN » Logged
davideinstein
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« Reply #253 on: November 14, 2016, 03:47:33 pm »

Except that we do support the poor. Tulsans are among the most philanthropic in the nation with very high donations per capita and one of the lowest homeless rates in the nation. Furthermore, we already donate enough to provide housing for every single chronically homeless person, there just isn't one cohesive effort to provide that. Currently, if you agree to not do drugs or alcohol, you can find a shelter to stay at in Tulsa. The Denver House has a project, "Better Box", which is aiming to follow Utah's path to providing housing for all homeless without the requirement to quit drinking or using.

Please learn some facts before posting inflammatory nonsense.

Learn facts? I literally work daily next to Iron Gate.

More facts for you: Tulsa has a poverty rate of 19.7% compared to the national average of 15.1%. I've learned my facts and am sick of you all running from them.

Another fun fact: Not everyone that uses Iron Gate is homeless.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 03:49:13 pm by davideinstein » Logged
Conan71
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« Reply #254 on: November 14, 2016, 09:04:00 pm »

Learn facts? I literally work daily next to Iron Gate.

More facts for you: Tulsa has a poverty rate of 19.7% compared to the national average of 15.1%. I've learned my facts and am sick of you all running from them.

Another fun fact: Not everyone that uses Iron Gate is homeless.

No you donít.  You work a block away.  Technically almost two blocks since the Iron Gate entrance is closer to 6th St.

You clearly do not read anything anyone else here posts:  

Go back a few pages and start over if you truly want to try to understand more about the issue and who these people are.  Homeless people arenít necessarily looking for a home, not looking to get clean or sober, or looking for a job.  Being an urban center, for each one we get off the street, thereís another to take their place.

Tulsa is one of the most generous cities in the United States.  Perhaps if you would spend less time writing about what a sh!t dump Tulsa is you might take the blinders off and realize itís not such a bad place.  As a secondary matter, the poverty rate of a city is not a function of the generosity nor a reflection on social services available in a city.  Tulsa does a pretty good job taking care of the less fortunate.  

You do realize those counted in your poverty number include the same people you employ, right?  What are you personally doing to change that metric?

Quit bitching at everyone else, and the shortcomings you perceive in them and make a difference, man!
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the firstĒ -Ronald Reagan
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