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November 24, 2017, 06:23:08 pm
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Author Topic: This Can't Be Right......Suburbia subsidized by the city? Blasphemy!  (Read 2185 times)
AquaMan
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« on: April 23, 2014, 05:42:27 pm »

Suburbs may become low rent areas. Better sell now RA!

http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/is-it-time-to-stop-subsidizing-the-suburbs--163018799.html?soc_src=copy
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2014, 07:37:26 pm »

Suburbs may become low rent areas. Better sell now RA!

Our house isn't all that big, about 1500 sq ft.  It's not as though we are trying to heat and cool a huge McMansion. There are bigger places in mid-town. The lot is big (a bit over 1 acre) but it only takes about 1-1/2 hr to cut.  Power steering and power mower deck lift mean I won't need to be Charles Atlas to run the mower.  I plan to stay here until I can no longer take care of it.  Then it will become my brother's and sister's problem.  (I am the oldest of 3 "kids".)

Being "out here" means I am less likely to lose the place to high taxes.  Are you still in your place?  I seem to remember taxes were becoming a bit of a problem for you.  Everyone seems to want their property value to increase but they neglect to remember that property taxes are based on the value of the place.  As long as the character of the neighborhood remains good, I don't care if the value doesn't skyrocket.
 
I forget who posted the link to the County Assessor Property map but thank you and here it is again.  I am amazed at the "value" of the property in some areas.  The structure values are similar to ours for a similar size but be sitting when you look at land value. 
http://www.assessor.tulsacounty.org/assessor-maps-agree.php?type=interactive

The article you linked to mentions the subsidies for roads vs.rail and transit.  I have no problem with the concept of subsidizing rail and transit. We have all discussed that plenty.  One thing that many forget is that trolleys, commuter rail, and buses made the suburbs possible for the middle class. Before that, pretty much everyone had to live within walking distance to work.  Buses unfairly appear to be inexpensive by neglecting to mention they use the same roads as the cars everyone hates.  Buses also only last 1/3 to 1/2 as long as trolleys and light rail cars.

Wasn't mid-town once considered a suburb?

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Ed W
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2014, 08:14:18 pm »

I'm confused. The main thrust is that mortgage deductions are a primary subsidy for suburban development. If you buy a house in an urban area, are you not eligible for that same deduction?

I can't speak for all boomers or millennials, of course, but I suspect that economics plays a greater role in attracting people to urban living than any environmental concerns. It's simply less expensive to live within walking distance of work and forego car ownership.
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Ed

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Red Arrow
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2014, 08:58:28 pm »

I'm confused. The main thrust is that mortgage deductions are a primary subsidy for suburban development. If you buy a house in an urban area, are you not eligible for that same deduction?

I can't speak for all boomers or millennials, of course, but I suspect that economics plays a greater role in attracting people to urban living than any environmental concerns. It's simply less expensive to live within walking distance of work and forego car ownership.

Anyone have a ratio of renters vs. homeowners in suburbia vs. urban areas?  Renters don't get the home mortgage deduction in the city.  There is a special loophole, known only to a few, that allows suburban renters to deduct the interest the actual owner pays on the home/apartment.  It's not available to people living downtown.   Grin

Everyone instantly assumes that living in the city is cheaper because you won't have a car.  Not everyone will live within walking distance of work so there is transit or cab fares.  Living in the city offers the opportunity to go to the theater, go out for dining.....  Again, maybe not within walking distance.  Rents seem to be higher but "it's (supposedly) worth it".  The assumption of "no car" is certainly valid in some places but not necessarily everywhere.  When one of my cousins lived in Boston in the 70s and 80s at Commonwealth and Berkeley, she and her roommate both had cars.  My cousin mostly took the subway/trolley to work but she still wanted a car to get places where going by transit would be a hassle.  She also liked to take her surfboard sailer to some nearby lakes.  So, her gas bill wasn't too big and her car was not new and shiny but she still had to buy and insure it.  She also had some garage space rented where she also kept her sailboard. 
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AquaMan
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« Reply #4 on: April 24, 2014, 11:34:31 am »

I just thought the writer was provocative. Cycles change and I fully expect that the next generations will trend towards inner city and midtown, but new construction. That scares me as much as declining value and increasing rental properties in the burbs might scare you all.

One of the attractions of suburban living for corporates is the easier resell when you are transferred. Inner city and midtown is a different kind of lifestyle that limits the number of potential buyers.

And of course education choices. Problem with that is the best scoring schools from US News and World Report are in Tulsa, not the burbs. In fact, the top four schools in the state are in OKC, Tulsa and Edmond. That might indicate that better educated, more prosperous couples are sending their kids to particular public schools and making a big impact on them. That was what I saw when my kids were little as well.
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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #5 on: April 24, 2014, 11:52:26 am »

I am currently interviewing for work in Portland, and while it would be nice to have an apartment within a short distance from where I would be working, my starting pay won't qualify for any of the units. The least expensive is three blocks away, and the rent starts at $1100.00/month for a 500sqft 0 bedroom 1 bath, plus $100.00/month for parking, I am a single person and do have need for a car. It would be better for me to live in Vancouver for $750.00/month, drive 5 miles to the Max Line, then take two trains and an hour and a half commute.

The other job I am interviewing for is a one year contract with the possibility of permanent in Spokane for twice the income, and $800/month in rent and a 30 minute commute by my own car.

If offered both, I think you can tell where I'm going.
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TheArtist
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« Reply #6 on: April 24, 2014, 04:25:17 pm »

I am currently interviewing for work in Portland, and while it would be nice to have an apartment within a short distance from where I would be working,

If you lived in a city with good transit, anywhere you are near a transit stop and another transit stop is near work…. you in essence live near your work.  There are places that do transit well and also do affordable urban living well, we might want to look at those models and consider them as we plan our own future.  As a small city and a relatively slow growing one, Tulsa could position itself to quite easily have the best of many worlds.  Good affordable suburban living, and good affordable urban living with good affordable transit. 
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« Reply #7 on: April 24, 2014, 05:09:27 pm »

I just thought the writer was provocative.
And responses not bowing down to the alter surprise you?

Quote
Cycles change and I fully expect that the next generations will trend towards inner city and midtown, but new construction. That scares me as much as declining value and increasing rental properties in the burbs might scare you all.
I can see cycles as happening.  Why does more people moving to a more urban setting and new construction scare you?  Isn't more people in less square miles what Tulsa Now is all about?  New construction can be good.  Not everyone will put up 1960s Soviet Block style buildings.

Quote
One of the attractions of suburban living for corporates is the easier resell when you are transferred. Inner city and midtown is a different kind of lifestyle that limits the number of potential buyers.
If the trend is toward more, young, people moving to urbia, won't the inner city and midtown places be the easier resell?

Quote
And of course education choices. Problem with that is the best scoring schools from US News and World Report are in Tulsa, not the burbs. In fact, the top four schools in the state are in OKC, Tulsa and Edmond. That might indicate that better educated, more prosperous couples are sending their kids to particular public schools and making a big impact on them. That was what I saw when my kids were little as well.
I won't deny that Tulsa has a few select good schools.  Too bad all the kids don't get a good school. 

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dbacksfan 2.0
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« Reply #8 on: April 24, 2014, 05:36:02 pm »

If you lived in a city with good transit, anywhere you are near a transit stop and another transit stop is near work…. you in essence live near your work.  There are places that do transit well and also do affordable urban living well, we might want to look at those models and consider them as we plan our own future.  As a small city and a relatively slow growing one, Tulsa could position itself to quite easily have the best of many worlds.  Good affordable suburban living, and good affordable urban living with good affordable transit. 

Transit is one of the things I do look at when looking at areas to move to. And actually two positions I have interviewed for in Portland, I would have no problem with taking the Max Line from north Portland (living in Vancouver) into town, and one of them, my only choice is transit, because of limited parking where I would be working. I could easily adjust my schedule for one of them. I would take Max from the far north end of the line for 1/3 of the trip, change to another for the next 1/3, and then take a tram to OSHU (Oregon State Health University) travel time was about an hour and a half including driving to the station. Less time for the other position, Max and street car.

The Spokane position, using transit for work isn't an option, as the job is a PM on construction sites in various locations around the area, so I would not always be working in the same spot. It also offers better pay, and more potential after the initial year, where as the two Portland jobs are one year, and the other is 6 months. They all have the advantage of getting me into the field, and getting some marketability after the contracts end.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #9 on: April 24, 2014, 05:39:16 pm »

I am currently interviewing for work in Portland, and while it would be nice to have an apartment within a short distance from where I would be working, my starting pay won't qualify for any of the units. The least expensive is three blocks away, and the rent starts at $1100.00/month for a 500sqft 0 bedroom 1 bath, plus $100.00/month for parking, I am a single person and do have need for a car. It would be better for me to live in Vancouver for $750.00/month, drive 5 miles to the Max Line, then take two trains and an hour and a half commute.

The other job I am interviewing for is a one year contract with the possibility of permanent in Spokane for twice the income, and $800/month in rent and a 30 minute commute by my own car.

If offered both, I think you can tell where I'm going.


Spokane.... you can be a prepper!!  I have a friend that lives up north of town a short distance.  Just like being in northern Idaho.  Rugged individualist preppers all....

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