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October 21, 2018, 10:20:54 am
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Author Topic: Stop building new prisons in Oklahoma  (Read 30953 times)
Conan71
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« Reply #30 on: November 08, 2010, 04:39:32 pm »

In a round about sort of way it is.  When you start out at the bottom, it is really hard to crawl out.  The majority of those being incarcerated come from this situation.  The blacks were put into this lower class decades ago, due to the racism of the time and for them it was a step up given the situation.  Some make it out, most aren't so lucky.

Now don't get me wrong, this is not an excuse in any way for people to commit crimes, or not take it on themselves to make a better life for themselves legally.  Just saying that the high number of black inmates stems from the high number of blacks in proverty, which stems from blacks as a whole starting in proverty generations ago because of racism. 

Just please tell me that makes more sense then stuff shadows posts

I understand your logic.  Much as the thread Nathan and I were discussing about poverty the other day, it's a choice.  You can't force someone to leave poverty, crime, and hopelessness behind.  There's plenty of help and opportunity for those who want it.  In many cases, the deck is stacked in favor of minorities to help them break this cycle.

Still though, I have a hard time accepting the actions 19 year-old they arrested yesterday for killing three people in October (and is now a "person of interest" in the Saturday double-slaying in north Tulsa) were the result of years of racism or slavery or otherwise being held down by whitey.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
custosnox
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« Reply #31 on: November 08, 2010, 04:48:27 pm »

I understand your logic.  Much as the thread Nathan and I were discussing about poverty the other day, it's a choice.  You can't force someone to leave poverty, crime, and hopelessness behind.  There's plenty of help and opportunity for those who want it.  In many cases, the deck is stacked in favor of minorities to help them break this cycle.

Still though, I have a hard time accepting the actions 19 year-old they arrested yesterday for killing three people in October (and is now a "person of interest" in the Saturday double-slaying in north Tulsa) were the result of years of racism or slavery or otherwise being held down by whitey.
I did say in a round about sort of way.  In the end people are responsible for their own choices. 
But I will say, from my second time in proverty, that it's not an easy task to get out no matter what race you are. 
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nathanm
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« Reply #32 on: November 08, 2010, 05:03:40 pm »

There's more to the disproportionate incarceration of minorities than just poverty. Part of is increased interaction with police. Not because police are racist, but because they patrol more in "high crime" areas, which happen to be where you have a greater concentration of minorities.

For example, blacks get incarcerated for drug crimes at more than twice the rate of white people. Counterintuitively, blacks are actually less likely to be drug users but since they have, on average, more interaction with the police they are more likely to get arrested for a drug crime. We end up being better at catching black people who have drugs, not because of racism, but because of where we concentrate our policing.

This disparity is partly responsible for the "eff the police" attitude many in crime ridden minority dominated neighborhoods. None of this is to excuse anybody's behavior, but more to explain it.
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
Conan71
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« Reply #33 on: November 08, 2010, 05:39:18 pm »

There's more to the disproportionate incarceration of minorities than just poverty. Part of is increased interaction with police. Not because police are racist, but because they patrol more in "high crime" areas, which happen to be where you have a greater concentration of minorities.

For example, blacks get incarcerated for drug crimes at more than twice the rate of white people. Counterintuitively, blacks are actually less likely to be drug users but since they have, on average, more interaction with the police they are more likely to get arrested for a drug crime. We end up being better at catching black people who have drugs, not because of racism, but because of where we concentrate our policing.

This disparity is partly responsible for the "eff the police" attitude many in crime ridden minority dominated neighborhoods. None of this is to excuse anybody's behavior, but more to explain it.

So basically, with the call for more police patrols in north Tulsa or typically black areas of the city to stem the violence we would likely see an uptick in arrests for other crimes.  That makes entirely too much sense to be logical  Wink

Did the polar caps swap or something?  I'm finding myself more and more in agreement with you lately.

Custo- I've been broke before, but I'd never go so far as to say destitute.  I agree it's not easy to dig out of, but you and I chose not to break any laws getting out of it nor out of desperation.  There's always a personal choice involved.
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
nathanm
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« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2010, 05:46:34 pm »

So basically, with the call for more police patrols in north Tulsa or typically black areas of the city to stem the violence we would likely see an uptick in arrests for other crimes.  That makes entirely too much sense to be logical  Wink

Did the polar caps swap or something?  I'm finding myself more and more in agreement with you lately.
That's pretty much it.

We didn't have a pole reversal, we're just talking about things we're generally in agreement on. I'm sure if we started talking about health care we could still get a good argument going. Wink
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"Labor is prior to and independent of capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration" --Abraham Lincoln
custosnox
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« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2010, 06:58:48 pm »


Custo- I've been broke before, but I'd never go so far as to say destitute.  I agree it's not easy to dig out of, but you and I chose not to break any laws getting out of it nor out of desperation.  There's always a personal choice involved.
And that is why I say an individual is responsible for that choice
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #36 on: November 09, 2010, 03:04:30 pm »

The difference has been rubbed in our noses almost daily for what, a year or so now?  Lindsey Lohan is a convicted druggy.  Because she is supposedly "cute", she is getting lots of slack.  Not just a race thing; it is well known and well proven that pretty people get breaks.


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I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
RecycleMichael
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« Reply #37 on: November 09, 2010, 03:21:29 pm »

But us pretty people are better than the rest of you.

Don't hate me because I am beautiful.
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Red Arrow
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« Reply #38 on: November 09, 2010, 06:50:02 pm »

But us pretty people are better than the rest of you.

Don't hate me because I am beautiful.

OK, give me a better reason.
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heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2010, 12:26:28 pm »

You ain't that pretty.

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"So he brandished a gun, never shot anyone or anything right?"  --TeeDub, 17 Feb 2018.

I don’t share my thoughts because I think it will change the minds of people who think differently.  I share my thoughts to show the people who already think like me that they are not alone.
custosnox
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« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2010, 12:30:26 pm »

You ain't that pretty.


I don't know, I know of a large number of flies that are attracted to him... sorry RM, couldn't resist that one
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Townsend
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« Reply #41 on: March 01, 2011, 01:41:52 pm »

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-plans-5.2m-prison-fund-shift/article/3544998

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Republican leaders in the Oklahoma Legislature have reached a deal to divert $5.2 million within the Department of Corrections to spare the agency from forcing prison guards and other workers to take additional furlough days.

 
A proposed bill obtained by The Associated Press on Tuesday directs the agency to tap money in its prison industries fund. Inmates run farms and make furniture and other goods. Prisons spokesman Jerry Massie says it's not clear what kind of impact the funding shift will have.

Guards and other workers still will take one furlough day a month, but using the industries fund would avoid their having to take up to four days off each month without pay.

The proposed bill is to be presented to a joint House and Senate committee Wednesday.

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patric
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« Reply #42 on: March 01, 2011, 02:12:05 pm »


Am I reading this correctly, that money is being taken from programs that might actually involve corrective programs, to keep prison guards from having to take the couple of days off a year (that virtually every other work sector in the nation did)? 
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Townsend
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« Reply #43 on: March 01, 2011, 02:36:42 pm »

Am I reading this correctly, that money is being taken from programs that might actually involve corrective programs, to keep prison guards from having to take the couple of days off a year (that virtually every other work sector in the nation did)? 

That's how I'm reading it.
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Townsend
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« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2011, 02:15:16 pm »

And she's put her X on her first law.

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=14279289

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OKLAHOMA CITY – A bill aimed to prevent additional furloughs at The Oklahoma Department of Corrections has been signed into law, the governor's office said Friday.

The bill will allow the Department of Corrections to use $5.25 million from a prison industries fund.

"This bill will get the Department of Corrections the funds it needs to safely operate our prisons and prevent additional furloughs," Fallin said. "I remain absolutely committed to public safety and I'm glad the department and the Legislature were able to work together with our office to reach this solution."

The bill is the piece of legislation signed into law by Fallin, who took office in January.

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