State Sen. Rice Proposing High Point Beer & Wine Sales In Grocery Stores

[dbacks fan]

I disagree with this. I've seen six-packs of Blue Moon, Boulevard and other craft brews at my neighborhood QuikTrip. If QT sells these things, surely the big grocers will and then some.

I would think (hope) that it would be like other states that there is no distinction between a C-store, grocer, or liquior store. At most of the grocers here in AZ you can get anything from Coors (eeecccchhh can't believe I said that word) to Blue Moon, Fat Tire, Anchor Steam, and several others, as well as good wine selections, and anything from generic rum to high end tequilas. My favorite I mentioned in an earlier post carries 600 beers, 2000 wines and over 800 spirits. Also, most grocers and now Circle K's actually have walk in coolers to hold larger quantities of cold beer and wine.

It would have to be the same across the board, and let the stores decide what to and what not to carry.

[Nik]

I disagree with this. I've seen six-packs of Blue Moon, Boulevard and other craft brews at my neighborhood QuikTrip. If QT sells these things, surely the big grocers will and then some.

Boulevard Wheat and Blue Moon are one thing. But I'm talking about some of the smaller breweries and less popular brews.

Here's someone's comment from BA:

First and foremost as a retailer, I personally think this would have a devastating effect on the growing beer industry and the economy of Oklahoma.

I can speak from talking with brokers and others in the industry that new breweries are more willing to come to Oklahoma because of the lack of shelf presence of BMC.

There is a big chain reaction that will occur if this happens. Open the trade and the state loses a lot. We currently have 8 wholesale houses. They all essentially get shut down or absorbed into larger distributors like Ben E Keith, Glazers, Southern Wine & Spirits, etc. Therefore there is probably about 1,000 unemployed folks right there. Do you think order puller's will get absorbed into BEK? Doubt it.

If you think of the schematics, most liquor stores are directly withing a 1 - 3 block radius of a major chain grocer. Liquor only makes up 35-45% of total sales at most beer focused stores. Take away our beer and you take away half our staff, half of our budget for ordering, half of our business.

I would guess within 6mos to a year of changing the laws, we would lose up to about 300 beers. Forget special releases. Like our variety of Rogue? It would go down to the basic 4. You'd see about 80% BMC and maybe two or three shelves left for craft beers. This would be the time that Blue Moon would be officially considered a craft beer in OK.

People think that oh having this cold would be so great. Well think about what you lose. Would you sacrifice those special beers, those beers somewhat unique and hard to get. For instance Avery Mephistopholes. I'd doubt a major chain would ever carry that.

Anyone can use Grapevine Market and Central Market as an argument, but how long do you seriously think it would take a chain like Reasors or Food Pyramid to adjust to the demands of beer lovers after years of only dealing with 3.2. Oh and do not forget that BMC pay for their shelf placements. So forget that "oh if I ask the purchaser and they see a demand they'll stock it." Doesnt work that way.

Sorry for my rant but this is a topic that angers me. People only see the selfishness of wanting something quicker and easier and do not look at how it would drastically alter things for everyone else involved. If the only argument is for the sake of quality, then that is a different matter all together. This is not that argument.

Changing laws changes the whole system. Maybe it is a little out dated, but given our economy does it make sense to cause more unemployment. Does it make sense to take away from the little guy who's owned the local liquor store for 20 years and worked his/her whole life to make a mark to give it to a bigger company like Spec's, Trader Joes, HEB, etc out of convenience.

The only solutions to this is to leave it alone all together or allow ONLY liquor stores to refrigerate strong beer, leaving 3.2 in grocery/convenience stores. Give the grocers wine. They'd only invest in core brands like Franzia, Vella, Carlo Rossi, Yellow Tail and Gallo products. So liquor stores become specialty wine shops, fine. But taking away wine & beer, it would do more harm than good.

I'm open to hear opinions, but try seeing it thru the eyes of the people who have fought to bring you the bettering conditions of Oklahomas beer selection. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

[Conan71]

I'd love to hear Michael71's take on this.  He does own a liquor store out in South Tulsa.  That said, here's my take on the letter you posted:

I've got several comments about the flaws in the commenter's logic and hyperbole, Nik.  Personally, I don't think the guy who wrote the letter has read the bill.  Even a summary in the newspaper story wouldn't leave me with the impression this guy has.  I think he's got a preconcieved notion about this from years of anecdotal fears which is putting a filter on his/her reading comprehension.

Knowing what I know of the struggle and expense Eric went through getting Marshall's up and running, I think the line is very very short for people wanting to bring more breweries to the state, regardless of our distribution system, even if on premise brewery consumption were approved. 

First, nowhere in the text of the bill that I read did it say anything about changing the wholesale distribution system in the state.  The premise of 1000 jobs evaporating is pure bunk.  More distribution points for high point beer and wine should be major WIN for the distributors and more $$ volume.  No one said anything about taking away liquor store's beer either and as I mentioned earlier, grocers need rapid shelf turns to make a buck.  They don't want obscure specialty items that collect dust on the shelf.  Beer snobs (myself included) will go to a liquor store to find a really great or rare craft brew, not the grocery store.  IOW- a grocery store is not going to want to compete with a liquor store.  They can't afford the floor space to do it.

Most GC's I've been to in other states that retailed beer and wine typically carry American small brewery beers like Shiner, Sam Adams, Rolling Rock, the AB "craft" brands, Blue Moon, Boulevard, and the popular foreign brands like Heineken, Corona, & Tecate in addition to "6 point" domestic brands like Miller, Coors, and Bud varieties.  Their wine selection is usually a couple of short aisles of lower end 750 ml and 1.5 L like Yellow Penguin (oops must be a hybrid of Yellow Tail and Little Penguin) or Carlo Rossi.

I definitely would agree on there being an equal playing field should GC's be given high point beer.  They can't sell it refrigerated if LC's can't, and vice versa.

The bill has nothing in it taking anything away from liquor stores or distributors. Period.  Again, it's all about the convenience of grabbing a six pack or bottle while grocery shopping and expecting a more limited selection at the GC.  I still maintain LC's are already facing competition with cold 3.2 versions of non-domestic beers being sold in GC's and CC's as it is now, yet you don't hear them bitching about that.

[SXSW]

There is another state senator, Joe Sweeden D-Pawhuska, that is drafting legislation to remove the requirement for liquor stores to sell room temp. beer giving them the option to refrigerate.  If you support his efforts let him know by emailing him or calling his office.

sweeden@oksenate.gov

(405) 521-5581

[brianh]

Yeah, I don't mind if liquor stores are still the only ones to sell high point refrigerated beer.  But then we also have to change the law for those to stay open until 2am.  Right now that makes weekend purchases of beer unfair. So either move it to grocers, or refrigerate it there and stay open late.

[jamesrage]

I hope SJR62 and SB2205 pass, I would love for a Trader Joes to be in Tulsa and to buy cold high point beer in a grocery store.

[SXSW]

I hope SJR62 and SB2205 pass, I would love for a Trader Joes to be in Tulsa and to buy cold high point beer in a grocery store.

Both bills didn't make it out of committee...

[heironymouspasparagus]

Oklahoma liquor laws are ALL about the political patronage (think tag agents and turnpikes) and graft and corruption.

[nathanm]

Most GC's I've been to in other states that retailed beer and wine typically carry American small brewery beers like Shiner, Sam Adams, Rolling Rock, the AB "craft" brands, Blue Moon, Boulevard, and the popular foreign brands like Heineken, Corona, & Tecate in addition to "6 point" domestic brands like Miller, Coors, and Bud varieties.  Their wine selection is usually a couple of short aisles of lower end 750 ml and 1.5 L like Yellow Penguin (oops must be a hybrid of Yellow Tail and Little Penguin) or Carlo Rossi.

The Kroger around the corner from where my sister used to live in Columbus, OH had more wine than almost any liquor store I've seen. The only exceptions are some monster-sized liquor stores, the likes of which I haven't seen here in Oklahoma. They had bottles ranging from the ultra cheap less than $10 bottles all the way up to several hundred bucks a bottle. The selection was ridiculously large.

Ironically, it was much farther to go to the grocery store than to get to either the regular liquor store or the literally drive through beer barn. (which sells more than just beer) The selection was much better at Kroger.

I don't recall there being much of a wine selection at Giant Eagle, though.

Personally, I don't really mind much keeping the hard liquor in the liquor store. I don't think there's any point (Missouri seems to do fine), but I don't care either. I do want cold strong beer and wine sold in grocery stores, convenience stores, and drug stores, however. I'd love to do away with 3.2 altogether.

[Conan71]

Personally, I don't really mind much keeping the hard liquor in the liquor store. I don't think there's any point (Missouri seems to do fine), but I don't care either. I do want cold strong beer and wine sold in grocery stores, convenience stores, and drug stores, however. I'd love to do away with 3.2 altogether.

100% agreement.  I really could care less for spirits being sold at the GC

[swake]

100% agreement.  I really could care less for spirits being sold at the GC

In Missouri it can be hard to find a decent bottle of wine or a smaller, better brand of bourbon. The grocery and convenience stores generally only stock the mass marketed stuff and actual liquor stores can be hard to find as a result.

That and the liquor isles in every convenience store just feels trashy.

[Red Arrow]

I really could care less for spirits being sold at the GC

How much less?

(Sorry, it's a slow day  )

[brunoflipper]

if colorado can't fix this, we never will...
http://www.fermentedlychallenged.com/2009/12/here-we-go-again-with-colorado-beer.html

gimme refrigerated liquor stores and we'll call it good...

[custosnox]

That and the liquor isles in every convenience store just feels trashy.

I like the way QT did this. They just put their liquor behind the counter.  It's handled much the same was as cigarettes are. 

Of course, we could do it like a small town I used to live in back in New Mexico.  No liquor store, just go down to the local bar and buy a bottle.  No laws against leaving with a sealed bottle.  The bigger town down the road had a separate section in the GC's that works like a liquor store.  Looks a lot better then an isle of whiskey in the middle of the store.

[GG]

I heard Jeff Reasor head of Reasor's Stores speak Friday at the Owasso Business Summit.   He as asked about High Point Beer and Wine Sales.   He would not mind selling wine in his stores but has no interest in high point beer.  But he does not see it happening anytime soon.  Too many powerful industry forces working against it. 

As far as Whole Foods coming into the state if we do get wine/high point beer sales he does not see that happening.  (Yes Whole Foods is in Brook Side but they purchased that store from Wild Oats).  He said the demographics in Oklahoma do not fit what Whole Foods is looking for in establishing a store whether they are allowed to sell wine/strong beer or not.