15th and Troost - TMAPC this week

[carltonplace]

I haven't seen what is planned for that spot, but I know Mr B. is the developer. Expect Big and Italianate.

[Renaissance]

If you click through the "Exhibit" link at #27 on the agenda you can get an idea of what's going in.  They're replacing about six houses with a four-storefront building fronting Cherry Street and a 40-spot parking lot behind the building.  It'll have the same feel as that Subway but closer to the curb without the street parking.  The parking lot will back up to the MLofts housing on Troost.  

It's kind of infill, but not really.  It is replacing low-density residential with high-density retail and a fair bit of parking.  Would be nice if the parking standards were relaxed somewhat to allow for less of a lot backing the building.  But at least they would be building to the curb.

Jury's still out for me.  This just continues the Cherry Street facelift--but too much plastic surgery starts to look pretty artificial.  I worry about loss of charm in the area.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by SXSW

If you find out more let us know.  As someone who is looking to move into the Cherry Street area in the next few years (more likely north of it though closer to Hillcrest) I very much like to know what changes the neighborhood is experiencing.  It's also probably my favorite part of Tulsa, and an area that is really changing (for the better).

I hope you can afford $300,000 mortgage, otherwise you are SOL.

There are some fixer-uppers in that neighborhood that are reasonable.  Price goes down a bit once you go north of the BA I've found, although that's changing quickly.  

And I remember a proposal for an office building at that very site at Peoria and the BA from a few years back.  It's a great location with one of the best views in the city.  Anyone with an office there would be very lucky.  I hope it's a good design whatever it is.

You better jump on it now, not in a few years.  Bumgarner is buying all the "fixer uppers" and mowing them down.

switch that sentence around and I think your off to a good start.

what a ****er.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

I haven't seen what is planned for that spot, but I know Mr B. is the developer. Expect Big and Italianate.

aka, big steaming pile of ****.....what that  **** calls "classy"..oh and I'm sure it will require lots of curb cuts and entrances spilling into nearby neighborhoods....along with an obligatory punch in the mouth.

I wonder when this town will have had its fill of this neighborhood destroying menace.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

I haven't seen what is planned for that spot, but I know Mr B. is the developer. Expect Big and Italianate.

aka, big steaming pile of ****.....what that  **** calls "classy"..oh and I'm sure it will require lots of curb cuts and entrances spilling into nearby neighborhoods....along with an obligatory punch in the mouth.

I wonder when this town will have had its fill of this neighborhood destroying menace.

I think he was talking about that site at 14th and the service road.  Seems better suited for office space than other lots he's built on.  I don't have a problem with it.

[inteller]

it is a shame shame shame that none of those old houses were preserved.  I know one of the ones there on that corner looked like it had good bones.

I can say without a doubt that the architecture being demolished is of higher quality than the dreck he will throw up.

[LongtimeTulsan]

Zoning goes with the land not the conceptual plan. Once it is changed to OH -- the detail site plans could have anything on it -- to the max allowed - in fact it won't matter. Using the PUD as the favorite tool for developers means - no consideration will be given for the surrounding area. None. No consideration for the neighborhood plans or the vision the neighborhood has stated.

Look at the Bomsada plan for 41st & Peoria if you want to see a crushing example of ignoring the surrounding neighbors and the work of many many people with the Brookside Infill Plan.

The character of Cherry Street is hand and glove with the utilization of old buildings for modern usages. The area use to have affordable housing within walking distance to a variety of neighborhood services. The concept of neighborhood walkability includes "play, work, and live" and implies that daily services are within walking distance. Not bar and restaurant heavy which are all disposable income dependant. Think about it.

 The projects on 15th will no doubt pass. Why? Because the main justification for these projects lies in the phrase "Tulsa needs sales tax dollars" and "we have to think of the developers' rights". Because INCOG isn't comprised of planners, but swifty staffers who manipulate the zoning code to satisfy a very few developers.

[TheArtist]

One of the tricky things about true walkability and urban living is that you do need a lot of people living in an area. I found it interesting at the PlaniTulsa event where the presenter showed lots of areas that were very mixed in their density. Right next to a 20story mixed use building with a large living component you had smaller 2 or 3 story buildings that had retail on the ground floor. You often need a pretty good chunk of people in an area to support a grocery store. They showed us several examples where a grocery store was on the ground floor with living above. I reeeeally was amazed when he would point at a huge building and say "we didnt add a single parking space for that building".

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by Double A

And so the economic cleansing continues on Cherry St.[]

I prefer to call it "adding economic diversity" to an area thats been predominantly working class. [8D]  

Economic diversity by wiping out all the affordable housing in the area? Stay Classy. That's kinda like calling the second rate Bouguereau knock offs you paint museum quality fine art.

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by Double A
Economic diversity by wiping out all the affordable housing in the area? Stay Classy. That's kinda like calling the second rate Bouguereau knock offs you paint museum quality fine art.

Talk about staying classy.  Do you have to be such a mean-spirited, hate-filled, cynical old nattering nabob all the time?  Do you enjoy putting everyone else down while digging yourself a bigger grave?  All you're doing is making yourself look like a bitter, old, unhappy moron.

[PonderInc]

quote:Originally posted by mac

The more important item on the TMAPC is the zoning change request at 14th and Utica.

They want to change the zoning to OH. OH would allow just about any kind of development including another "One Utica Place".
Check out what uses are allowed by right under OH. Is this really appropriate on or even very near to Cherry Street?
http://www.incog.org/City%20of%20Tulsa%20Zoning%20Code/Content.htm

Is that PUD-437?  I can see it on the map of the other exhibit, but I don't see it on the agenda for the TMAPC.  Where can we find details of this development?

[carltonplace]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

I haven't seen what is planned for that spot, but I know Mr B. is the developer. Expect Big and Italianate.

aka, big steaming pile of ****.....what that  **** calls "classy"..oh and I'm sure it will require lots of curb cuts and entrances spilling into nearby neighborhoods....along with an obligatory punch in the mouth.

I wonder when this town will have had its fill of this neighborhood destroying menace.

I think he was talking about that site at 14th and the service road.  Seems better suited for office space than other lots he's built on.  I don't have a problem with it.

Sorry, I should have been specific. Mr B is currently moving dirt at 14th and Utica where The Mercury Motgage building, 4 houses and an apartment building once stood.

[Double A]

Chipping Away... The Chamber wants to remake Midtown

Deja Vu.

[mac]

It is Z-7102, OL/RM-2 to OH.

PonderInc you make a good point. There are no details about this project anywhere. In the exhibit it lists uses as "offices". INCOG staff is recommending a change in zoning from low intensity to high intensity without either knowing what the property will be used for or not revealing it. Is a high rise high intensity office building really appropriate in this area?

The comp plan recommends low intensity in this area and states that any thing more should be proposed as a PUD. With a PUD the public will have at least have an idea of what will go in.
 
We are going through a long process of updating our comp plan. Will the new one be disregarded by INCOG so blatantly as the current one?

In my opinion OH is best used in the downtown area and from what I am hearing, people are begging for developments there. Why place it in the middle of a residential/light office area without a vision of how it will mesh with its surroundings??

[Double A]

Anybody privy to the site plans? It should be public record.

Someone please post a link to these plans.