Terminating Tulsa government inefficency

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

quote:Originally posted by inteller

so attack the problem in reverse.  GIVE people something instead of taking something away and forcing them to do something.

I know I would recycle if I didn't have to pay.  But paying for the priviledge of giving my trash to someone who will take it and make money off of it is not my idea of fair.

I agree that it should be free (even though the charge is nominal) especially since the service is so uneven. My pick up is on the 1st and 3rd Wednesday of the month, but many times they don't come by - or - they only take part of it (or that could be some random passerby harvesing the aluminum and leaving the paper and plastic). Last month I had to take the recycling to the MET myself.

Once you take out everything that can be recycled or composted my house barely creates a half bag of garbage per week.

yeah, well you are never going to get the necessary uptake if the service isn't reliable.  You PAY for unreliable service?  I'd hate to see what free service would yield.

It puzzles me that cities big and smaller than Tulsa can have successful recycling programs but Tulsa just doesn't seem to get it.

Maybe if we went to per bag service like they do in Fayetteville, AR people would use the recycling service.  You get a year's supply of bags and if you run out of them you are SOL unless you buy them at $1.50 A POP.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

Maybe if we went to per bag service like they do in Fayetteville, AR people would use the recycling service.  You get a year's supply of bags and if you run out of them you are SOL unless you buy them at $1.50 A POP.

If I ran out of them I wouldn't consider that a year's worth.  If I ran out 10 months into the year I'd call that 10 month's supply.

[jne]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

quote:Originally posted by inteller

so attack the problem in reverse.  GIVE people something instead of taking something away and forcing them to do something.

I know I would recycle if I didn't have to pay.  But paying for the priviledge of giving my trash to someone who will take it and make money off of it is not my idea of fair.

I agree that it should be free (even though the charge is nominal) especially since the service is so uneven. My pick up is on the 1st and 3rd Wednesday of the month, but many times they don't come by - or - they only take part of it (or that could be some random passerby harvesing the aluminum and leaving the paper and plastic). Last month I had to take the recycling to the MET myself.

Once you take out everything that can be recycled or composted my house barely creates a half bag of garbage per week.

It should most definitely be free.  What proportion does not opt for curbside recycling? Seems like you could charge a minuscule recycling fee to all and cover my 2 dollars a month for unreliable service.  I would estimate that my bins are emptied about half of the time I have it out for the scheduled day.

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by jne
It should most definitely be free.  What proportion does not opt for curbside recycling? Seems like you could charge a minuscule recycling fee to all and cover my 2 dollars a month for unreliable service.  I would estimate that my bins are emptied about half of the time I have it out for the scheduled day.

Why should it be free?

Tulsans never complain that they pay $15 a month for trash, then shout that recycling should be free.

The cost are very much the same for curbside collection of either. The difference is that Tulsans have said they want twice-a-week trash pickup and don't need any more than twice-a-month recycling pickup. That is the reality we need to change.

The Tulsa trash contractor is paid a hundred dollars a year to come by your house. The same company gets $31 a year to pickup the 10% of the Tulsans who voluntarily pay two dollars a month for it. That is the majority of the trash expenses.

Tulsa pays about $25 a year to the landfill for disposal from the average home.

The value of the recyclables from the average home at todays' prices is about $30 a year and that is counting on continued tonnage from neewspapers and aluminum cans, both of which are declining. That also doesn't account for sorting and baling.

There is no free curbside recycling in any town in America. It might not show up as a line item on your bill, but it is usbsidized somewhere.

[Wilbur]

I have no problem with the $2 recycle fee.  Although, trying to determine what time of day they show up has been a challenge lately.  It's either 6 in the morning or 8 at night.  Go figure.

As for cutting trash to once-a-week pickup, I'm good with that, when they cut my trash pickup fee by 50%.

[nathanm]

quote:Originally posted by inteller


Maybe if we went to per bag service like they do in Fayetteville, AR people would use the recycling service.  You get a year's supply of bags and if you run out of them you are SOL unless you buy them at $1.50 A POP.

Didn't they can that system when they went to carts a few years back? IIRC, now they'll take whatever you can cram in your cart (in any bag), plus whatever you're willing to pay for their pink bags for. Of course, they have free recycling there, too. So for most families, you're just being wasteful (or too cheap to pay for the bigger cart) if you can't dispose of enough trash.

In Springdale, you have to pay Waste Management directly for trash service. They take up to 10 bags a week for their less than $10 a month fee, but they only come once a week. You have to pay for recycling, so almost nobody does.

Interestingly, Fayetteville went to the bag system because Waste Management claimed they were running out of space in the landfill and required their municipal customers to limit the amount of trash they deliver there. Not a peep to their direct residential customers or commercial customers, though. Go figure.

[RecycleMichael]

Yes...there have been many problems with the contractor. Most of them are getting resolved.

There is more trouble on the horizon, though.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by jne
It should most definitely be free.  What proportion does not opt for curbside recycling? Seems like you could charge a minuscule recycling fee to all and cover my 2 dollars a month for unreliable service.  I would estimate that my bins are emptied about half of the time I have it out for the scheduled day.

Why should it be free?

Tulsans never complain that they pay $15 a month for trash, then shout that recycling should be free.

The cost are very much the same for curbside collection of either. The difference is that Tulsans have said they want twice-a-week trash pickup and don't need any more than twice-a-month recycling pickup. That is the reality we need to change.

The Tulsa trash contractor is paid a hundred dollars a year to come by your house. The same company gets $31 a year to pickup the 10% of the Tulsans who voluntarily pay two dollars a month for it. That is the majority of the trash expenses.

Tulsa pays about $25 a year to the landfill for disposal from the average home.

The value of the recyclables from the average home at todays' prices is about $30 a year and that is counting on continued tonnage from neewspapers and aluminum cans, both of which are declining. That also doesn't account for sorting and baling.

There is no free curbside recycling in any town in America. It might not show up as a line item on your bill, but it is usbsidized somewhere.

ok, set aside whether it is "free" or free for a moment.  Compare the uptake of recycling in "free" towns versus here.  I bet it is a lot higher than towns that show it as a separate line item.

[RecycleMichael]

There are so many different ways to have curbside recycling. Some communities have separate bins, some collect everything in one single pass.

I am hosting a meeting tomorrow morning between a national firm and area trash guys to discuss the company making a significant investment in recycling sorting technology in a facility in Tulsa.

It is called "single stream" recycling collection and if we can get this private company to bite, we can have the best recycling in the region.

If anyone wants to be invited to this 10am meeting, PM me.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Vision 2025

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

My pet peeve is duplicity in functions of government. I never fail to point out that the Parks Dept. does the same stuff the River Parks Authority does. It was set up as an authority to enable it to borrow. Yet it hasn't been in debt for a long time, relying mostly on donations and fundraisers like Oktoberfest. Most of it resides within Tulsa city limits. Parks can fulfill the same functions of mowing, security, trash pickup etc.

Is this too complex for your requirements?

A valid peeve if Tulsa was the sole funder of RPA.  However; Tulsa County is the second half of the Trust beneficiary and provides approximately half of the regular funding.

Four words. Tulsa County Parks Department.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by Vision 2025

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

My pet peeve is duplicity in functions of government. I never fail to point out that the Parks Dept. does the same stuff the River Parks Authority does. It was set up as an authority to enable it to borrow. Yet it hasn't been in debt for a long time, relying mostly on donations and fundraisers like Oktoberfest. Most of it resides within Tulsa city limits. Parks can fulfill the same functions of mowing, security, trash pickup etc.

Is this too complex for your requirements?

A valid peeve if Tulsa was the sole funder of RPA.  However; Tulsa County is the second half of the Trust beneficiary and provides approximately half of the regular funding.

Four words. Tulsa County Parks Department.

that brings up another point that Eagleton has already mentioned....merging city and county governments, then you could go about merging some of these trusts into existing entities.

[jne]

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

quote:Originally posted by jne
It should most definitely be free.  What proportion does not opt for curbside recycling? Seems like you could charge a minuscule recycling fee to all and cover my 2 dollars a month for unreliable service.  I would estimate that my bins are emptied about half of the time I have it out for the scheduled day.

Why should it be free?

Tulsans never complain that they pay $15 a month for trash, then shout that recycling should be free.

The cost are very much the same for curbside collection of either. The difference is that Tulsans have said they want twice-a-week trash pickup and don't need any more than twice-a-month recycling pickup. That is the reality we need to change.

The Tulsa trash contractor is paid a hundred dollars a year to come by your house. The same company gets $31 a year to pickup the 10% of the Tulsans who voluntarily pay two dollars a month for it. That is the majority of the trash expenses.

Tulsa pays about $25 a year to the landfill for disposal from the average home.

The value of the recyclables from the average home at todays' prices is about $30 a year and that is counting on continued tonnage from neewspapers and aluminum cans, both of which are declining. That also doesn't account for sorting and baling.

There is no free curbside recycling in any town in America. It might not show up as a line item on your bill, but it is usbsidized somewhere.

It should be free because the goal is to have more folks recycle.  As it stands, the incentive is to NOT recycle. I think that is simple enough.  
I would have no problem with a small increase in everyone's trash rate to include recycling, but that won't necessarily get more people to do so - so why not consider penalizing the fee to those that choose not to recycle?

FTR - I think once a week is plenty for normal trash pickup

[Zelladir]

I'm new here, but I wanted to add my two cents as well.

I'm fine with paying for garbage pickup, it's alot better then having to take it myself. With a wife and two kids and cooking 90% of my meals at home rather then eating out, I stockpile alot of garbage. I think I could do once a week though.

If the city supplied everyone with a trash can when they first sign up for trash pickup, and then switched to once a week pickup I imagine it would save a ton of money in the long run. Even if they don't provide an addition can, I would have no problem going out and buying one if my bill got cut even 25% to switch to once a week.

On the recycling issue, I pay for it, have tried to get the bin/bags for the recycling, but have never been able to get it. perhaps i'm not asking the right people. I even bought my own bin and I have NEVER had it picked up, in 6 months of paying for the service.

I have no problem with paying for recycling, but perhaps offer a small tax deduction for how much you recycle and when you first sign up for the service have the city drop off a recycling bin. Maybe this is how it works now, but at my little house in midtown, it doesn't work that way.

[Miss Solemnis]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Go to once a week trash pickup.  At worst everyone will have to get an extra trash can.  Most of my life I have had 1x trash pickup and no one complained about it.  Here, I usually only bother taking cans out once a week.

It is nice, but if it would save money go to once a week.

I'm confused.  We just moved back to Tulsa in October and have once a week pick up.  Do different areas of the city have different pickups - some once a week, some twice a week?

[RecycleMichael]

quote:Originally posted by Zelladir
On the recycling issue, I pay for it, have tried to get the bin/bags for the recycling, but have never been able to get it. perhaps i'm not asking the right people. I even bought my own bin and I have NEVER had it picked up, in 6 months of paying for the service.

This contractor has had many problems.

Call the Mayor's action center at 596-2100.

If that doesn't work, send me a PM.