Fake Traffic Stops

[patric]

Robbers dressed in fake police uniforms is one more reason traffic stops shouldnt be made with unmarked cars:

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=87f54c86-289d-4c5b-bca8-1578a6db4732

'A truck driver is in the hospital after being beaten and robbed, all for doing what he thought was the right thing.

Muskogee County Sheriff Charles Pearson says two men posing as police officers pulled the man over last night, just south of the Summit exit on Highway 69.
“People need to understand a flashing blue light. That's not a law enforcement officer.� '


When someone takes a shot at these guys, its not going to end well if it turns out to be a real cop.

[tim huntzinger]

And yet another reason to fire a warning shot . . .

[RLitterell]

quote:Originally posted by patric

Robbers dressed in fake police uniforms is one more reason traffic stops shouldnt be made with unmarked cars:

http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=87f54c86-289d-4c5b-bca8-1578a6db4732

'A truck driver is in the hospital after being beaten and robbed, all for doing what he thought was the right thing.

Muskogee County Sheriff Charles Pearson says two men posing as police officers pulled the man over last night, just south of the Summit exit on Highway 69.
“People need to understand a flashing blue light. That's not a law enforcement officer.� '


When someone takes a shot at these guys, its not going to end well if it turns out to be a real cop.

Anyone who shoots at a flashing blue light is looking to shoot a cop anyway. I seriously doubt anyone will pull over and the fire a gun who is not bent on copkilling. The safest thing to do is drive to a well lit populated area. Signal the officer that you see him and drive to a safe area

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

And yet another reason to fire a warning shot

If you fire a warning shot at an impostor and it turns out to be a real cop, we will be reading about you the next day in the Whirled as yet another crackpot killed for taking a shot at police.

quote:Originally posted by RLitterellThe safest thing to do is drive to a well lit populated area. Signal the officer that you see him and drive to a safe area

They tend to take a dim view of your failure to immediately comply, and may also regard that as a pursuit.
You have reason to fear for your life either way, so the safest thing would be for police to only make traffic stops in plainly marked vehicles.  

It's a situation where you can do everything right on your end and still be wrong, so something needs to change on the other end.  Unmarked cars have their place in surveillance, but create extraordinary and unnecessary risks to both police and citizens when used to initiate traffic stops that are mistaken for carjackings.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric


It's a situation where you can do everything right on your end and still be wrong, so something needs to change on the other end.  Unmarked cars have their place in surveillance, but create extraordinary and unnecessary risks to both police and citizens when used to initiate traffic stops that are mistaken for carjackings.

Can anyone point to the last time in Tulsa anyone was carjacked as a result of a fake police officer driving a fake police car?

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur
Can anyone point to the last time in Tulsa anyone was carjacked as a result of a fake police officer driving a fake police car?

It has to be right in Tulsa before we react?
A Muskogee Turnpike isnt good enough?

FWIW, A co-worker mentioned she saw a vehicle matching this description recently pull over a vehicle in Tulsa.

[RLitterell]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by tim huntzinger

And yet another reason to fire a warning shot

If you fire a warning shot at an impostor and it turns out to be a real cop, we will be reading about you the next day in the Whirled as yet another crackpot killed for taking a shot at police.

quote:Originally posted by RLitterellThe safest thing to do is drive to a well lit populated area. Signal the officer that you see him and drive to a safe area

They tend to take a dim view of your failure to immediately comply, and may also regard that as a pursuit.
You have reason to fear for your life either way, so the safest thing would be for police to only make traffic stops in plainly marked vehicles.  

It's a situation where you can do everything right on your end and still be wrong, so something needs to change on the other end.  Unmarked cars have their place in surveillance, but create extraordinary and unnecessary risks to both police and citizens when used to initiate traffic stops that are mistaken for carjackings.

I could not agree more that traffic stops should only be made by policemen in marked cars, or black and whites to be more specific.(whatever color the Tulsa Police cars are) However, given that this is not the case I still believe that one should signal the "blue light" that you see and agknowledge him/her and proceed to the safest well lit area. I will take my chances with the judge should I be required to appear before one for doing so.
This is what I have done her in Memphis, the most crime ridded city in the Mid-South and have never had a problem with it. They make traffic stops in unmarked SUV's here.

[Wilbur]

And when you are being pulled over by a marked police car, just what markings are you seeing on the front of a police car?

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

And when you are being pulled over by a marked police car, just what markings are you seeing on the front of a police car?

The Retro-reflective pinstripe that wraps up to the headlights...
...and the occasional light bar (a throwback to a time when deterrence through visibility was a higher priority).

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

And when you are being pulled over by a marked police car, just what markings are you seeing on the front of a police car?

The Retro-reflective pinstripe that wraps up to the headlights...
...and the occasional light bar (a throwback to a time when deterrence through visibility was a higher priority).

So based on a pin stripe towards the front of a car, which the newer Dodges that are coming in won't have, you a saying that is a legit police car?  And you can actually see that pin stripe in your mirror and determine it belongs on a police car and not some soccer mom's car?

State law says you can use unmarked police cars only if the officer is in full uniform.  Or, you can use marked police cars and officers not in uniform (or in uniform).

If you don't feel the person stopping you is a police car, call 911.  The dispatcher can confirm that.  Or pull into a store parking lot and/or a well lit place.  

Just don't gun it, turn your lights off and speed off!  That could be trouble (and cause a little excitement for everyone).

Believe me, there are far easier ways to steal a car.  Just look for all the ones left running at Quik Trip!

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

State law says you can use unmarked police cars only if the officer is in full uniform.  Or, you can use marked police cars and officers not in uniform (or in uniform).

That's a relief... That and knowing that the Sheriff is working on his law to stop local shops from selling uniforms to anyone with cash, the bad guys wont have anyw.......


UH OH!
TPD Uniforms rank #6 in a Google search for "police uniforms" ?!  Out of the Whole Planet?!

Well, they must be selling to people from from out of town, because locals just dont...

Police arrest man accused of impersonating officer
http://www.tulsaworld.com/common/printerfriendlystory.aspx?articleID=070207_Ne_A6_LOCAL35986
Police have arrested a man who is accused of impersonating a police officer, stopping a vehicle and putting its occupant in handcuffs Monday night.

UH OH!
Given how well the strategy of denial worked in dealing with, oh, say gangs in the past, maybe we should be a bit more proactive this time.

[Hawkins]

Every once in awhile at gunshows I see a booth that sells police lights/equipment. To anyone!!

I always walk by it thinking, 'there's the sexual predator supply shop.'

Unmarked vehicles = additional concern in my book. You really can't trust anyone out there, so who is to say?

I think the best way to handle it locally is to list all the unmarked vehicles that we know of in this thread. That's not to say that someone couldn't read this now, and create a false unmarked vehicle, but here is what I have seen in Tulsa:

Two Chevrolet Impalas, one dark blue, one white, both with heavy tint.

One new Dodge Charger, dark grey with tint.

If you are getting pulled by one of those three, then chances are its legid.

But, if I understand correctly, you can always dial 911 on your cellphone and request another officer in a marked vehicle before making contact with the unmarked vehicle's driver? Does anyone else know if this is true?

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Hawkins

I think the best way to handle it locally is to list all the unmarked vehicles that we know of in this thread.

I still believe the best way to handle it is to not make citizens second-guess whether the car trying to stop them is the Real McCoy.

Anyone can put on a "POLICE" cap (that's about how much of a uniform youre going to see in your mirror), but obtaining a properly marked police car is a lot, lot harder.  

It just makes so much more sense than this silly game of Russian Roulette.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Hawkins

I think the best way to handle it locally is to list all the unmarked vehicles that we know of in this thread.

I still believe the best way to handle it is to not make citizens second-guess whether the car trying to stop them is the Real McCoy.

Anyone can put on a "POLICE" cap (that's about how much of a uniform youre going to see in your mirror), but obtaining a properly marked police car is a lot, lot harder.  

It just makes so much more sense than this silly game of Russian Roulette.

You can buy old police cars at just about any city auction.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

quote:Originally posted by patric

I still believe the best way to handle it is to not make citizens second-guess whether the car trying to stop them is the Real McCoy.

Anyone can put on a "POLICE" cap (that's about how much of a uniform youre going to see in your mirror), but obtaining a properly marked police car is a lot, lot harder.  

It just makes so much more sense than this silly game of Russian Roulette.

You can buy old police cars at just about any city auction.

Propely marked?  All the decals and lights?