Tulsa's Economic "Core"

[guido911]

If you really want to look at an area which is being neglected for the sake of other parts, how about east Tulsa?  There have been no major improvements or developments I can think of in years.  Hopefully Horizon Group will get their mall built off I-44, that would be a huge shot in the arm for East Tulsa. 

Nailed it. I am most hopeful for East Tulsa (wherever that is). I often thought that is where some of the HY75 stuff should have gone. But hey, it's not my money.


As for OCD, darned right I got it when it comes to all these districts/neighborhoods. It's a concept that I do not recall being exposed to before moving here. As I have written, I find it largely pretentious and highfalutin.

[Conan71]

Nailed it. I am most hopeful for East Tulsa (wherever that is). I often thought that is where some of the HY75 stuff should have gone. But hey, it's not my money.


As for OCD, darned right I got it when it comes to all these districts/neighborhoods. It's a concept that I do not recall being exposed to before moving here. As I have written, I find it largely pretentious and highfalutin.

Dude, my CDO (must be alphbetized) tells me the area where you grew up is full of districts these days.  "District" is a pretty common development term used in metropolises we aspire to be like.  In a few years people will be saying: "Hey, 2011 called, they want their 'district' back!"

[rdj]

Districts are popular because it is an attempt to give something a sense of place.  In places like Tulsa that are trying to catch up to cities that have had a thriving "urban" core for decades these names have evolved naturally.  Tulsa has examples of that, Cherry Street being a great example.  In areas that are newer the marketing folks like to push it along.  Broken Arrow Rose District being a great example.

I don't think having "districts" is a bad thing, it simply gives us a bit of an identity about where we come from.

[TheArtist]

I have never thought of them as being "uppity" or anything, they are really just useful, especially if your giving directions.  Rather than saying, "Lets go eat someplace on 15th street or on Peoria" well, both of those streets are quite long and, especially like Peoria, have multiple "spots" (crosses through a cluster of restaurants in the Pearl, through Cherry Street, and Brookside) and being able to say Brookside or Cherry Street, gives a person an instant visual of where, and what is there.

Also beats saying, lets meet downtown, in perhaps the northish side, or perhaps the northish/westish side over in that area.  Or if your the group of businesses in an area and want to get together to coordinate and have events, promotions, beautification efforts, cleaning, etc. to help get people to come to your businesses,,, it helps to have a name that people can again, easily identify more specifically where you are and what is there.  "Come shop in the beautiful middle of downtown!" doesn't quite have the ring and fun interest of say "Come shop in the beautiful Deco District!"

[heironymouspasparagus]

Nailed it. I am most hopeful for East Tulsa (wherever that is). I often thought that is where some of the HY75 stuff should have gone. But hey, it's not my money.


As for OCD, darned right I got it when it comes to all these districts/neighborhoods. It's a concept that I do not recall being exposed to before moving here. As I have written, I find it largely pretentious and highfalutin.

I asked the Tulsa water department decades ago about utilities going east and the "reason" I got at the time was the difficulty of installing water/sewer lines in the rock bed that part of town sits on.  Just one of the fallacies to that is the west side development goes through rock in the Tulsa Hills, too.

The reason I suspect is more accurate is that city leaders at the time (70's and 80's) saw the housing developments were generally more 'modest' in scale that were being built, and the more affluent were already moving south.

[TheArtist]

On further reflection....

Tulsa's economic core=

Philbrook & Gilcrease Museum and legacy Arts Institutions/ Tulsa Ballet, PAC
Beautiful historic neighborhoods with large trees
Woodward Park, Rose Garden, River Parks
Incredible, historic, downtown architecture
Legacy industries of Oil and Aeronautics
Legacy public facilities, Fairgrounds (pavilion, Expo Center,etc.) BOK Arena, Civic Center, 
TU, ORU
Cherry Street, Brookside,


I could go on, but suffice it to say if you were to take just those things above away from this town, well, there would be no here, here.  Without those things our city would be an incredibly banal, non-distinct, everywhere and no where, place. It's these things and more like them which make up Tulsa's real economic Core imho.

[davideinstein]

District 4 by far.

It has Downtown, Hillcrest and the Fairgrounds.

[davideinstein]

Pure semantics but "South" Tulsa is south of Admiral.  "North" Tulsa is north of Admiral.  "East" Tulsa is east of Main.  "West" Tulsa is west of Main.  If 71st & Memorial isn't "South Tulsa" where is it?  I'm really not sure what your obsession is with districts and general terms on where something is on the city grid, but hey, it's your OCD, not mine. 

The city has just started renovation of the intersection of 71st & Memorial.  What part of all the infrastructure improvements along Memorial from 81st to 111th in the last 15 years is lost on you?  Look at all the investment along Hwy 75 from 71st to Jenks.  None of that has been neglected for the benefit of downtown development. 

If you really want to look at an area which is being neglected for the sake of other parts, how about east Tulsa?  There have been no major improvements or developments I can think of in years.  Hopefully Horizon Group will get their mall built off I-44, that would be a huge shot in the arm for East Tulsa. 

East Tulsa is just a victim of a really bad period of suburban style growth.

[carltonplace]

Perhaps the one thing I could impress is that calling 71st & Memorial "South Tulsa" really should be reevaluated. We have "districts" downtown that are mere city blocks separated by how much? Yards? Blocks? Calling everything south of, say, 41st street as "south Tulsa" is nuts.

That said, it should be no secret. My issue is that it seems there is a general mentality that Tulsa needs to be pouring money into the downtown area to be vibrant. We've done enough of that. We should be directing our resources to other areas, such as what we are seeing on HY 75. I would also like to see the 71st & Memorial intersection (especially on the NW and SW corners) improved.  But hey, just me. I am living near an area overwhelmed by development right now, and judging by the traffic, businesses are booming.

Not sure why your perception is that the city is pouring money into downtown. The truth is that much more city funding is spent on south tulsa road projects than is spent in downtown. The lion's share of our Fix our Streets package and the 2012 3rd Penny projects are for streets south of downtown.

In the last several years I believe the public projects are as follows:
BOK CENTER V2025
BOULDER BRIDGE 2006 3RD PENNY (and V2025 and FEDERAL GRANT)
BOSTON AVE 2000 3RD PENNY
DENVER AVE 2006 3RD PENNY
Downtown Revolving Housing fund (2006 3rd Penny and V2025)


There are many other projects but they had alternate funding sources
CENTRAL LIBRARY - county
COUNT COURTHOUSE - county
Brady District Street Scaping - Brady TIF
Centennial Square - V2025
Quiet Zone - V2025 and Federal Funds
Central Park retention ponds - Home Depot TIF and Flood Mitigation funds
Jazz Hall of Fame - V2025
ONEOK PARK - Private funds and Downtown Assesment

Most of the other projects in downtown are all from private companies.

[sauerkraut]

My guess would be south Tulsa, also IMO West Tulsa is ripe for  big expanding in growth, west Tulsa is a hidden gem. The re-building of the Crystal shopping center seems to be a start. The west bank of the river & west  jogging trail is ripe for growth & expanding

[guido911]

Not sure why your perception is that the city is pouring money into downtown. The truth is that much more city funding is spent on south tulsa road projects than is spent in downtown. The lion's share of our Fix our Streets package and the 2012 3rd Penny projects are for streets south of downtown.

In the last several years I believe the public projects are as follows:
BOK CENTER V2025
BOULDER BRIDGE 2006 3RD PENNY (and V2025 and FEDERAL GRANT)
BOSTON AVE 2000 3RD PENNY
DENVER AVE 2006 3RD PENNY
Downtown Revolving Housing fund (2006 3rd Penny and V2025)


There are many other projects but they had alternate funding sources
CENTRAL LIBRARY - county
COUNT COURTHOUSE - county
Brady District Street Scaping - Brady TIF
Centennial Square - V2025
Quiet Zone - V2025 and Federal Funds
Central Park retention ponds - Home Depot TIF and Flood Mitigation funds
Jazz Hall of Fame - V2025
ONEOK PARK - Private funds and Downtown Assesment

Most of the other projects in downtown are all from private companies.

I wasn't really focusing on the source of the funding, only that the folks in Tulsa spent boatloads of cash in downtown development. Whether its 2025 or other tax was not my point.

And by south of downtown, what does that mean? Red, Me and T south of downtown?

[carltonplace]

I wasn't really focusing on the source of the funding, only that the folks in Tulsa spent boatloads of cash in downtown development. Whether its 2025 or other tax was not my point.

So your complaint is the overall amount of money spent in downtown regardless of public or private money? That this money would be better off spent elsewhere?

I tend to think that all areas of Tulsa should be smartly developed.

And by south of downtown, what does that mean? Red, Me and T south of downtown?

Yale was recently rehabbed curb to curb from 21st to 31st...this is south of downtown.

[Hoss]

So your complaint is the overall amount of money spent in downtown regardless of public or private money? That this money would be better off spent elsewhere?

I tend to think that all areas of Tulsa should be smartly developed.

Yale was recently rehabbed curb to curb from 21st to 31st...this is south of downtown.

Memorial from Admiral to 11th just wrapped up also.

[rdj]

Might be an exaggeration but not much of one...but the widening of Yale from 81st to 91st will trump all the street projects downtown in the last seven years.

[RecycleMichael]

Might be an exaggeration but not much of one...but the widening of Yale from 81st to 91st will trump all the street projects downtown in the last seven years.

$31 million not counting the millions needed for the new intersections...for one mile.