Golf Carts in Tulsa

[patric]

The city of Hobart made the case to allow golf carts on city streets, so now Im wondering how long it will be before a similar ordinance goes before the Tulsa City Council.

I could see it either limited to residential streets (and some larger connectors) or neighborhood-by-neighborhood.  Expressways and major arterials would be off-limits.

We're not going to become a walkable city overnight, so this would be one way to scale-down towards that goal.  If most of your car commuting is short-haul anyway, it sounds like an attractive option to using the old gas-guzzler.

In time, I wouldnt be surprised if developers began to adjust their projects to accomodate a golf-cart-enabled community.  I could even see electric kiosks people could use to top off their batteries.

OK, so a golf cart isnt exactly a GM EV-1, but with Lithium-ion batteries you could get around and not feel guilty about Ozone Alert days.

[Red Arrow]

If we allow golf carts, does that mean that we can eliminate the safety features required on regular vehicles like air bags, 5 MPH bumpers, and seat belts? Who would be allowed to drive them? Would they be required to have insurance? Would they need a licence (tax) fee?

Just questions that would need to be considered.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

If we allow golf carts, does that mean that we can eliminate the safety features required on regular vehicles like air bags, 5 MPH bumpers, and seat belts? Who would be allowed to drive them? Would they be required to have insurance? Would they need a licence (tax) fee?

Just questions that would need to be considered.

If I'm reading him right, they would probably be under the same umbrella as scooters of the Vespa type.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

If we allow golf carts, does that mean that we can eliminate the safety features required on regular vehicles like air bags, 5 MPH bumpers, and seat belts?

It would likely depend on the limitations of the vehicle.  Seat belts might be required to keep you within the vehicle in case of an accident.  5mph bumpers arent really safety features, and airbags fall under federal law rather than local ordinance.

quote:
Who would be allowed to drive them?

I wouldnt discriminate, but older drivers might  be among the first.

quote:
Would they need a licence (tax) fee?

Well, It is Tulsa....

...and you are right, we would have to take a lot of things into consideration, since putting slower vehicles on city streets would require adjusting not only our laws but our automobile-oriented mindset.

Chances are, if more cities start doing things like this, the improved market will drive improvements in motorized carts.

[AMP]

I have been advocating the use of Golf Karts. Utility Vehicles and the very small Japanese Import Trucks for street use for years.  


Need to allow these Honda ATCY Trucks to be operated on the streets also.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

If we allow golf carts, does that mean that we can eliminate the safety features required on regular vehicles like air bags, 5 MPH bumpers, and seat belts? Who would be allowed to drive them? Would they be required to have insurance? Would they need a licence (tax) fee?

Just questions that would need to be considered.

If I'm reading him right, they would probably be under the same umbrella as scooters of the Vespa type.

'Scooters of the Vespa type' have to meet all the same regulations as any other motorcycle......  insurance, tags, turn signals, endorsements, .....

[ARGUS]

bring on all small vehicles.
I was also almost thinking that it would be good for kids to be able to have Go-Karts too....harken back to yeateryear when people knew how things worked.
I guess a Game-Boy doesnt foster father/son realtionships in the garage and kid to kid neighborhood exploration.
There are plenty of golf carts cruising my mid-town neighborhood full of 'tweens and then a little later their parents on "cocktail cruises"; I see the pimped out fourwheeler, go-peds, small dune buggies and any random mode of transportation as a good thing and Tulsa should embrace the random because it creates an opportunity for conversation.
ALL THINGS GET SOLVED WITH CONVERSATION!
"oh we have never met before....this is our electric hunting buggy we brought with us from Texas; we hope you dont mind...the kids love to ride through the neighborhood with us when the weather is nice" Cool! what are your childrens ages???....so and so on ...a new neighborhood connection......something we all need.

[dbacks fan]

Here is an ad for a dealer in Sun City, AZ, and yes they are street legal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd9KlcMNVPo

[patric]

At some point a public education effort/PR push might have to come up with a name other than "golf cart" to describe elctric-powered short-haul urban vehicles, but for now, "golf cart" is a lot less of a mouthful.

I dont see this displacing the gas guzzler anytime soon, but short trips to the grocery store or getting the kid at school everyday might be more likely.  I hadnt thought of "cocktail cruises" but im sure there would be some social changes that would evolve if this were to happen.

[Gaspar]

I think allowing a more diverse mix of vehicles would be a good idea for energy, and parking reasons, but then I have to think about safety, and can't see it working.

If you are in a golf cart at an intersection when another motorist zips through doing 45 in a hummer after a liquid lunch, what would otherwise be a nasty accident becomes fatal.  Two dead and a couple of scratches on the bumper of the Hummer.

A simple side-swipe or finder-bender between a Yukon and an electric golf cart would end up in absolute carnage!  

I guess it's really the same situation for motorcycles and scooters, but the mix is far less.

When I was a kid, I worked in a hospital and was amazed by the amount of fatal and near-fatal motorcycle accidents that came in nearly every day.  One of our docs Dr. Parks, rode a motorcycle and mentioned that bikers make up less than 5% of the driving public but account for nearly half of the fatalities.  I'm not sure where he got this statistic from, but I never forgot it.  The week after we were talking about that, he was rear-ended by a car, and nearly killed.  Spent weeks in the hospital trying to save his leg.

Again, I like the idea of getting to work on a few pennies of electricity or a few drops of fuel, but I'm not sure the toll in human life will be worth it.  There would defiantly have to be a helmet law for such vehicles.

We can certainly make more efficient forms of transportation available to the public, but we can't make the other motorists more cautious.  

[Gaspar]

Ok, I just looked up the most recent fatality statistics for motorcycles for anyone who is interested.  DOT and NCSA stats.

Motorcycle fatalities make up 8% of all traffic fatalities.  They represent 1.6% of the driving public.

For every 100,000 motorcycles 65 riders are killed every year.

Thats some fairly grim statistics.

I'm not sure that a golf cart would fair any better.

[AMP]

While running your stats, how many traffic related fatalities were pedestrians or bicyclists?  

Perhaps the problem is not with the mode of transportation and all the added safety equipment such as air bags, seat belts and the like, but rather the operator's lack of skill or being intoxicated.  

May want to run the stats on the motorcycle, pedestrian and bicycle fatalities and see who was at fault and if alcohol was involved.

Any stats from China or Japan where two wheels are a popular form of transportation?

[patric]

The risks of golf carts on the streets might be more in line with 2-wheeled vehicles that are already there, and increasing in number.

...but for every bicycle, motorcycle, 3-wheeler or golf cart on the road that's one less motor vehicle.
Transitioning will not be easy, but the payoff is in the long run.

Wonder if INCOG has studied this?

[Gaspar]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

While running your stats, how many traffic related fatalities were pedestrians or bicyclists?  

Perhaps the problem is not with the mode of transportation and all the added safety equipment such as air bags, seat belts and the like, but rather the operator's lack of skill or being intoxicated.  

May want to run the stats on the motorcycle, pedestrian and bicycle fatalities and see who was at fault and if alcohol was involved.

Any stats from China or Japan where two wheels are a popular form of transportation?

Can't find any on China, but my wife went to China last year and she saw horrible motorcycle accidents nearly every day in Beijing and Behi.  They actually ride with their infants in their laps!  

As for Japan, 18% of all traffic fatalities are Motorcycle (Japan Institute for Traffic Accident Research and Data).  Interesting, they site that the major cause is vehicle right turns (would be left turns here)  where the driver of the car does not see the cycle crossing the intersection.

I think the added safety devices ARE a huge factor!  If someone hits me at just 30 mph in a car and I am in a car with modern seat belts and air bags, chances are I will walk away (actually I have, twice), but if I were on a bike, 30 mph impact would most likely kill me or seriously injure me.

[PonderInc]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

I have been advocating the use of Golf Karts. Utility Vehicles and the very small Japanese Import Trucks for street use for years.  

I just had a flashback to travelling in Thailand and Guatemala!  In many countries, these are used as taxis.  You just jump in the back with about 10-12 other people...

This is still considered a "tuk-tuk" (pronounced: took-took) in Thailand,  but it's not quite as exciting as the traditional tuk-tuks...