Curtailing extra travel.....in regards to TPD cars

[TUalum0982]

from the tulsa world...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?articleID=20080625_16_A1_PLCEIL789667

interesting stat...of the 777 city police cars, 392 were being driven outside city limits.....let the arguments begin!!!

[tulsa_fan]

I have no argument.  I do hope they work something out for the banks specifically to reimburse city for gas and let the officers have their cars there (and NO that is not a parttime my husband does).  Bank roberries are very scary and we see them turn deadly too often, the police car in front of bank is a huge deterrent.  Remember the several deaths we had a few years ago?  At that point, almost all banks went to off duty officers for security, and the murders have stopped.  I agree though, its not the city's responsibility to pay for the gas to and from there.  

[mrhaskellok]

I am a huge advocate of policeman getting out of the car and walking.  I am sure I will get flamed somehow for this, but many decades patrol work had little to do with cars.  Sure,  in a large city you need some cars to respond to calls, but the proactive impact foot patrols have will reduce the number of calls and the effectiveness of the officers once they are on scene.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by tulsa_fan

I have no argument.  I do hope they work something out for the banks specifically to reimburse city for gas and let the officers have their cars there (and NO that is not a parttime my husband does).  Bank roberries are very scary and we see them turn deadly too often, the police car in front of bank is a huge deterrent.  Remember the several deaths we had a few years ago?  At that point, almost all banks went to off duty officers for security, and the murders have stopped.  I agree though, its not the city's responsibility to pay for the gas to and from there.  

I don't remember where I heard or read this from, maybe it was from here.  But I remember hearing that no bank in Tulsa with a police car parked out in front has ever been robbed before? Has anyone else heard of that before?

Anyways, I am all for police officers driving their cars home. I know alot of people on this forum think the exact opposite however.  But with the high gas prices, I agree with Cheif Palmer the policy needs to be reviewed/revised.  Maybe the dept can monitor gas prices and if they see an unusual dip in the wholesale price, order a load or two if their tanks are low enough.  If they can save 30 cents a gallon and order 8000 gallon delivery, (I dont know what their tanks hold) just an assumption, that would be 2400 dollars in savings there alone.

[patric]

You probably recall my mention of the cop I had as a neighbor who would let his car idle in the street day-in and day-out.  Someone opined it was to keep equipment warm/cool but the car really never moved except to refuel.
Special couch assignment?  Who knows.

quote:Originally posted by mrhaskellok

I am a huge advocate of policeman getting out of the car and walking.  I am sure I will get flamed somehow for this, but many decades patrol work had little to do with cars.  Sure,  in a large city you need some cars to respond to calls, but the proactive impact foot patrols have will reduce the number of calls and the effectiveness of the officers once they are on scene.

I think that went away when we shifted from preventative strategies to punitive strategies.
Nowadays, its all about chasing someone down to write tickets.
...and certainly the entertainment value of screeching tires is worth something...[)]

[safetyguy]

What's the logic of allowing the officers to drive the cars home in the first place? Are they supposed to be able to respond to incidents directly from their house when off-duty?
A lot of towns (i.e. Jenks comes to mind) require that the car be left in town if you live outside of Jenks.

I don't see why they come up with a way for banks, private events, etc. to reimburse the city for the use of the car for events. The pay of the off duty officer would be between the officer and the event organizer/business. They would probably have to have an approval process to ensure reimbursement process.

Is it urban legend or can you get an insurance break by living close to a cop? It might deter crimes from happening in the houses near where the officers vehicle is parked.

Now the police union will want more money for the officers because the cops aren't used to paying for gas to get to work. Some officers may have to buy a vehicle to get to work as well!!

Will the OHP be the next to do this? There is an OHP officer that lives down the sreet which is why I was thinking of this.

[mrB]

I have a friend who lives in a Tulsa apartment complex that has two TPD officers as tenants. The officers drive their cruisers home and park, obviously, in the apartment parking lot. My friend believes the TPD cruisers are a MAJOR deterrent to crime/vandalism in his apartment complex.

I also have a TPD officer living in my midtown neighborhood. He drives the cruiser home and parks on the street. My neighborhood is one of those where the residents think all cars should be parked in the garage or on the driveway. However, I've never heard of anyone in my neighborhood complaining of his crusier on the street.

I heard [hearsay?] one of the reasons they are allowed to drive home is for quicker response to a 'major incident'. And another reason being the visiblity/deterrent factor. Wouldn't you think twice before attempting to do something illegal if a cruiser was down the street? Never know who is watching! I'm sure there are other reasons too.

Policing has always been a visible deterrent. TPD officers driving to and from work in their crusiers, increases the views per day. Maybe it's time to move toward a more economical [fuel efficient] vehicle. Horses and bikes downtown and Riverparks. Motorcycles on Brookside and Cherry Street. I even think they could take an inoperable car and add a silhouette, then park it in the median on the BAExpressway every couple days.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by safetyguy

What's the logic of allowing the officers to drive the cars home in the first place? Are they supposed to be able to respond to incidents directly from their house when off-duty?
A lot of towns (i.e. Jenks comes to mind) require that the car be left in town if you live outside of Jenks.

I don't see why they come up with a way for banks, private events, etc. to reimburse the city for the use of the car for events. The pay of the off duty officer would be between the officer and the event organizer/business. They would probably have to have an approval process to ensure reimbursement process.

Is it urban legend or can you get an insurance break by living close to a cop? It might deter crimes from happening in the houses near where the officers vehicle is parked.

Now the police union will want more money for the officers because the cops aren't used to paying for gas to get to work. Some officers may have to buy a vehicle to get to work as well!!

Will the OHP be the next to do this? There is an OHP officer that lives down the sreet which is why I was thinking of this.

I doubt OHP will ever do this.  They are spread so thin across the state as it is.  They on many nights have only 1 or 2 officers for an ENTIRE COUNTY.  My buddy who I graduated college with works out of Wagoner County and lives on the Tulsa/Wagoner county line.  Based on where he patrols, where he lives and where his troop offices are, it would be using more fuel then he is using by taking his squad car home.  I believe it is a deterrent as well to have a cop car in neighborhoods and driving to and from work.  Every single one of us slows down somewhat on the highway once we can make out that it is a police car of some sort.  

The trooper that I mentioned above has 2 other troopers who live in his neighborhood, 1 tulsa county sheriff and 1 TPD.  Quite a safe neighborhood IMO.

[shadows]

I don't see any comment that according to the article more than one-half of the policemen do not prefer to live in the city,

If one is working on a second job in a bank and receives an emergency call does he leave his second job to answer it?

I have suggested before that if a parked police car is a deterrent to crime why are the cars not parked unattended at different locations throughout the city?

Paint the buses like police cars to remind the criminal element of the police existence?

Why are the suburbs not charged for the crime deterrent in their city by using our costly cars and the cost of transporting them to their suburb?

Is being a police office a primary or secondary source of employment?

Every city employee gets a new car with gas furnished so they can be on time each day.  

There is no logical reason that this perk should have ever existed,

The Bobbies on England through Peel worked this all out.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by safetyguy

What's the logic of allowing the officers to drive the cars home in the first place? Are they supposed to be able to respond to incidents directly from their house when off-duty?
A lot of towns (i.e. Jenks comes to mind) require that the car be left in town if you live outside of Jenks.

I don't see why they come up with a way for banks, private events, etc. to reimburse the city for the use of the car for events. The pay of the off duty officer would be between the officer and the event organizer/business. They would probably have to have an approval process to ensure reimbursement process.

Is it urban legend or can you get an insurance break by living close to a cop? It might deter crimes from happening in the houses near where the officers vehicle is parked.

Now the police union will want more money for the officers because the cops aren't used to paying for gas to get to work. Some officers may have to buy a vehicle to get to work as well!!

Will the OHP be the next to do this? There is an OHP officer that lives down the sreet which is why I was thinking of this.

Mayor Bill MisFortunate granted the police take-home car 25-mile radius expansion during his illustrious tenure.

He was trying to ingratiate himself into the local Praetorian Guard in order to buy their support for his re-election.

A Tulsa police car parked in a driveway in Owasso, Catoosa, Broken Arrow, Bixby, Jenks, Sapulpa, Glenpool, Sapulpa or Sand Springs has ABSOLUTELY no benefit to the safety of the citizens of Tulsa.

This overly generous and financially ruinous dumb-headed policy needs to be dropped during the ongoing TPD contract negotiations.

Return a modicum of sanity to city administration.

[TUalum0982]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by safetyguy

What's the logic of allowing the officers to drive the cars home in the first place? Are they supposed to be able to respond to incidents directly from their house when off-duty?
A lot of towns (i.e. Jenks comes to mind) require that the car be left in town if you live outside of Jenks.

I don't see why they come up with a way for banks, private events, etc. to reimburse the city for the use of the car for events. The pay of the off duty officer would be between the officer and the event organizer/business. They would probably have to have an approval process to ensure reimbursement process.

Is it urban legend or can you get an insurance break by living close to a cop? It might deter crimes from happening in the houses near where the officers vehicle is parked.

Now the police union will want more money for the officers because the cops aren't used to paying for gas to get to work. Some officers may have to buy a vehicle to get to work as well!!

Will the OHP be the next to do this? There is an OHP officer that lives down the sreet which is why I was thinking of this.

Mayor Bill MisFortunate granted the police take-home car 25-mile radius expansion during his illustrious tenure.

He was trying to ingratiate himself into the local Praetorian Guard in order to buy their support for his re-election.

A Tulsa police car parked in a driveway in Owasso, Catoosa, Broken Arrow, Bixby, Jenks, Sapulpa, Glenpool, Sapulpa or Sand Springs has ABSOLUTELY no benefit to the safety of the citizens of Tulsa.

This overly generous and financially ruinous dumb-headed policy needs to be dropped during the ongoing TPD contract negotiations.

Return a modicum of sanity to city administration.

but it does when every officer driving to the above cities you mentioned have to take every major highway into/outof tulsa to get home.  Therefore slowing down people on the highways and turnpikes when they see them.  Not to mention, if they are on their way home from a shift and something major happens, they can then rush to the scene.  Therefore benefitting the safety of tulsa citizens.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by TUalum0982

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by safetyguy

What's the logic of allowing the officers to drive the cars home in the first place? Are they supposed to be able to respond to incidents directly from their house when off-duty?
A lot of towns (i.e. Jenks comes to mind) require that the car be left in town if you live outside of Jenks.

I don't see why they come up with a way for banks, private events, etc. to reimburse the city for the use of the car for events. The pay of the off duty officer would be between the officer and the event organizer/business. They would probably have to have an approval process to ensure reimbursement process.

Is it urban legend or can you get an insurance break by living close to a cop? It might deter crimes from happening in the houses near where the officers vehicle is parked.

Now the police union will want more money for the officers because the cops aren't used to paying for gas to get to work. Some officers may have to buy a vehicle to get to work as well!!

Will the OHP be the next to do this? There is an OHP officer that lives down the sreet which is why I was thinking of this.

Mayor Bill MisFortunate granted the police take-home car 25-mile radius expansion during his illustrious tenure.

He was trying to ingratiate himself into the local Praetorian Guard in order to buy their support for his re-election.

A Tulsa police car parked in a driveway in Owasso, Catoosa, Broken Arrow, Bixby, Jenks, Sapulpa, Glenpool, Sapulpa or Sand Springs has ABSOLUTELY no benefit to the safety of the citizens of Tulsa.

This overly generous and financially ruinous dumb-headed policy needs to be dropped during the ongoing TPD contract negotiations.

Return a modicum of sanity to city administration.

but it does when every officer driving to the above cities you mentioned have to take every major highway into/outof tulsa to get home.  Therefore slowing down people on the highways and turnpikes when they see them.  Not to mention, if they are on their way home from a shift and something major happens, they can then rush to the scene.  Therefore benefitting the safety of tulsa citizens.

Sorry boys, park 'em.

We CANNOT afford this TPD grifting off the Tulsa taxpayer any longer.

[8D]

[buckeye]

Several years ago, my neighborhood was hit by petty thieves breaking into cars.  They'd go down the street in the middle of the night taking anything of value left in sight.  One victim was a police cruiser - the stolen object?  Police-issue shotgun.

The criminals don't care.

[Wilbur]

A couple of observations:

If you force all police cars to be parked at a police station, you will need to triple or quadruple the size of all the police station parking lots.  None currently can handle that many cars.  Remember, not only due you have to make room for several more police cars, you also have to make room for two shifts worth of personal cars to park.

Plus, you don't want all your emergency first response vehicles parked in one place.  One well targeted tornado wipes out a third of your fleet.  Ask New Orleans.

Yes, some cars are driven outside of Tulsa.  But some of those drive less distance to home then they would back to the police station they are assigned to.  Defeats the purpose.

Yes, Tulsa police cars are parked outside the city.  Yes, Glenpool, Broken Arrow, ..... police cars are parked in Tulsa.

Yes, police cars are a deterrent, whether they are parked at a home or a business.  Would you rather have one car PARKED at the business, or several cars driving to that business, plus fire trucks, ambulances, ....  in an emergency.

This city can't seem to see the big picture.  It spends far more on electricity then on gasoline by a long shot, but every city building is lit up light a Christmas tree every night and sitting empty, yet we complain about gas.  We won't spend 50 cents on deterrent but we'll spend ten dollars on the results.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

A couple of observations:

If you force all police cars to be parked at a police station, you will need to triple or quadruple the size of all the police station parking lots.  None currently can handle that many cars.  Remember, not only due you have to make room for several more police cars, you also have to make room for two shifts worth of personal cars to park.

Plus, you don't want all your emergency first response vehicles parked in one place.  One well targeted tornado wipes out a third of your fleet.  Ask New Orleans.

Yes, some cars are driven outside of Tulsa.  But some of those drive less distance to home then they would back to the police station they are assigned to.  Defeats the purpose.

Yes, Tulsa police cars are parked outside the city.  Yes, Glenpool, Broken Arrow, ..... police cars are parked in Tulsa.

Yes, police cars are a deterrent, whether they are parked at a home or a business.  Would you rather have one car PARKED at the business, or several cars driving to that business, plus fire trucks, ambulances, ....  in an emergency.

This city can't seem to see the big picture.  It spends far more on electricity then on gasoline by a long shot, but every city building is lit up light a Christmas tree every night and sitting empty, yet we complain about gas.  We won't spend 50 cents on deterrent but we'll spend ten dollars on the results.

The police cars can be stored off-site until the surplus is sold-off.  That will free up plenty of parking spaces.

Then, going forward, City of Tulsa won't need to be buying a police car for every police officer.

You are right however, about the city's propensity to leave the lights burning all night and on weekends.

In the Favors-Trading network that has governed Tulsa for generations, government entitities burn their lights 24 x 7, which helps former locally owned power monopoly PSO.

AEP/PSO in turns contributes big $$ to help pass new tax and tax renewals of every sort, like Vision 2025 and the Kaiser River Tax.

It's called Favors-Trading.  

They scratch each others' backs.

And, we pay the freight.

Drive buy TCC campuses sometime in the very early a.m. hours sometime.  Not a car to be seen on the parking lot.  Not a soul in sight.  Yet, every light is ON at the parking lot  every night, 7 days per week.

AEP supports TCC getting tax increases.  In turn, TCC leaves their lights on.

Again, the Tulsa County Taxpayers pay the freight.

It's the TULSA PREMIUM.

[:O]