Hispanic School for Tulsa

[Jammie]

What areas of Tulsa have the highest population of Hispanics? Do they all somewhat live in the same areas or are they integrated throughout the city? I know that a previous poster said there were several in the Lewis Street area.[?]

[swake]

With an unemployment rate under 4% they aren't taking any jobs from anyone.

And there are three heavily hispanic areas of Tulsa.

Admiral and Lewis, Peoria between 61st and 71st and the 31st and Garnett area. I have heard that the areas are not alike. That the east Tulsa area at 31st and Garnett is mostly comprised of people of Central and South American decent, and the the areas on Peoria and Lewis are mostly Mexican.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Markk

The problem with relying on schools to teach English to those who don't speak it is that a teacher is not permitted to fail someone in an English course simply because the student can't speak it.  At least, that is what a teacher friend tells me.  If anyone can make sense out of that, I'd like to hear the explanation.  

BTW, I'm equally put off by vacant-eyed teens mumbling in English at a service counter, as I am by people who don't speak it at all.  Bash me all you want, but when I go to a service counter, I expect service and not blank stares because the person on the other side of the counter can't understand anything I'm saying.

First, I bet your teacher friend doesn't speak spanish.

It's funny that most colleges have "english as a second language" programs to address some of the english deficiencies of international students.  Yet efforts at bilingual education at the elementary/middle school/high school level are politicized... yep, let's just hold 'em back... or even worse... engage in "social promotion"... then just call them "stupid."

Second generation immigrants (no matter whether they're legal or illegal) are at a distinct disadvantage because spanish is the language spoken at home.  Watch Univision or Telemundo or Galavision for more than 10 mins and you'll see commercials for "English made easy"... some geared for children... some geared for adults...

And yes Markyboy, I'll bash the bashers... especially the ones who expect perfect English from people who make minimum wage at a fast food joint.  Ever think that those people working at Mickey D's might be doing so to IMPROVE their english skills???... otherwise, I'm sure they could do something else like bussing tables, cleaning houses, construction, etc, etc...

If you expect good service from people who speak better english, then pay more.  Go to a full service restaurant and stop acting the victim. (though I guess you'd still have to stay away from the Chinese and Mexican restaurants, come to think of it).  []

[DM]

quote:Originally posted by Jammie

Mark, you won't get any bashing from me about that. They're very possibly taking a job away from an American-born, English speaking teen OR from a semi-retired person who'd love to make a few extra dollars to subsidize their social security checks. []

So who do you blame for the heavy accented non American born person getting the job over some okie that was born here? Do you blame the person or the manager that hired him?

To blame the person is wrong. Its not his fault that he is willing to work for less money and little or no benefits. After all, that teen might be buying booze with his money versus somebody else that may be trying to support a family.

Its not your job unless your manager says it is. BTW, wasnt it MCD that was thinking or testing the idea of having the drive thru order be taken from someone in India?

[Jammie]

DM, now that you mention it, it does sound familiar and it was McDonald's that was planning on doing that.

Of course I don't blame the person who took the job, but the fact is that they can work for less. If they're sick, the county pays for it whereas we have to carry medical insurance and pay premiums. They don't carry so much as liability insurance on their vehicles, where we generally carry full coverage. They don't have life insurance because the county will pay their bill for that. In our culture, we generally live as a family unit. They often live 20 people per house so you can imagine how cheap their expenses are. So naturally, they will work for a low wage, but who pays in the end?[?]

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by DM

This school should be eligible for government money just like every other school is. Just because it caters to Hispanics doesn't not mean anything. Not all Hispanics (kids and parents) came across the border. It's sad that people have that mentality.

There are plenty of white schools that cater to whites. They just don't advertise it. But yet I don't see anyone throwing a fuss about them receiving government money.

Let me see if I'm digesting this correctly, we should use taxpayer money to support a private, segregated, religous school? Should private, segregated, religous schools for whites be eligible? Good luck with that B.S.

[DM]

quote:Originally posted by Double A


Let me see if I'm digesting this correctly, we should use taxpayer money to support a private, segregated, religous school? Should private, segregated, religous schools for whites be eligible? Good luck with that B.S.

You dont digest very well. lol!

I dont think that taxpayer money should be used for any schools that focus on a certain religous or ethnic groups. But if you think that it is not happening now, you should think again. It only becomes an issue when its Hispanics that do it. Heaven forbid them to get the same education that some white person is getting.

[Johnboy976]

I have worked retail for several years. It is rare to find someone who does not speak English... however, if they don't, 75% of the time they bring someone along who does (often times someone who speaks English fluently).

I will say this, as well... most immigrants speak VERY broken English, and I am talking about immigrants from anywhere. Besides, I have had more Chinese people who have had English difficulties than Latinos. And you know, the kicker is that where ever these immigrants are from, they are usually nicer than most of the English speaking natives I've dealt with.  

With that said, let's get back on topic. Schools that provide English speaking courses are helping advance Hispanics beyond the poorer class. Besides, latinos who make the effort to have their children learn the English language and American culture are showing that they do not want to make us into another Mexico. We don't see the effort that often, though. The reason for this is that Tulsa (for the exception of a few private organizations) has not taken steps in the right direction. They have not made  this scenario plausible for Hispanics. Right now San Miguel has enough staff to support around maybe 150 kids. There are over 50,000 reported Hispanics in the city. I am personally convinced that there isn't enough of a concern.

[hortoma2]

Newer studies have shown that immersion classes, though more difficult in the beginning, are much more effective than bilingual classes.

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by DM

Heaven forbid them to get the same education that some white person is getting.

It's not a matter of being white, brown, black, yellow or even orange DM. It's a matter about being legal.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by hortoma2

Newer studies have shown that immersion classes, though more difficult in the beginning, are much more effective than bilingual classes.

That is the dirty little secret that these ESL advocates try to cover up. Eisenhower just celebrated the 25th anniversary of their successful immersion program. Immersion is the best way to learn another language. Providing instruction in Spanish is doing these children a great disservice. All the services provided in Spanish aren't helping their parents learn English, either. All we are doing is enabling them to remain at a disadvantage in our country and wasting tons of money in the process that could be used for much better things.

[RecycleMichael]

There is not a dirty little secret, doubleA.

Why do you say such things?

Immersion programs are more effective, but way more difficult and expensive to do. Everyone who has kids involved knows that.

The school systems are trying a variety of ways to educate our children and elementary education is a constantly changing dynamic.

Do you even have any kids in school?

Based on your comments "Providing instruction in Spanish is doing these children a great disservice", would a kid who has a spanish speaking relative at home not be allowed to be in an immersion program?

What about the french immersion program? Are they providing a disservice or do you just attack spanish speaking people?

[NellieBly]

I get the feeling they just like to attack Spanish speakers.

The best way to learn a foreign language is submersion -- ask any native English speaker who is bilingual. They learned another language by surrounding themselves with that language. I've taken tons of spanish in college and barely remember a thing. My spanish teacher friend didn't take any at all in college and learned it by moving to Costa Rica. She's absolutely fluent. I am really jealous when she can communicate with people I can't. I love going to the hispanic market with her.

[Conan71]

Was the implication from Double A that the Eisenhower program was for hispanic kids?  If that's the case, it couldn't be more off-base.

When I visited Eisenhower ten or 12 years ago to look into it for my older daughter, I don't recall seeing that many latino-looking kids.

[RecycleMichael]

I went to Eisenhower today for the school assembly. My sister (an elementary school assistant principle and english as a second grade teacher in Florida) wanted to meet the principal and see the school resources.

All the teachers and kids were in the gym at the same time.

It is a real melting pot. There are many kids from spanish speaking and french speaking households,as well as black, asian and American Indian children.

It is the number one performing elementary school in the state. In the classroom, half the school speaks spanish and the other half speaks french, but on the playground all the kids speak english.