Little Rock and Tulsa...Thoughts on the two...

[OUGrad05]

quote:Originally posted by Red Arrow

quote:Originally posted by OUGrad05
Did you notice the steel rails in the streets and overhead wires in their river development area, out towards the Clinton Library, and across the Arkansas River to North Little Rock?  Periodically, a large yellow vehicle with steel wheels riding on the rails and using electric power from the overhead wire would appear. People would get on or off at places where it stopped. It's a form of mass transit called a trolley.

Uhh yeah I noticed it and the trolly didn't make downtown what it is lol

In fact the most amount of people I ever saw on the trolly was 9, the next time it was 5 then 4, then countless completely empty trollies.  

I asked the lady at the hotel about it, she said that it was rarely even at 1/4 capacity and not to mention it is INCREDIBLY slow.  Hardly mass transit.

I've heard the same complaint about Tulsa buses. The circulator part of the trolley really only needs to be faster than walking in a walkable neighborhood. Faster is nicer. They need to run enough trolleys that you don't have to wait longer than it would take you to walk. I don't know it they are doing that.  Expanding to the airport has been mentioned. Further expansion to other parts of downtown will likely follow in the future.  Putting in a full sized system as a starter is not likely to happen anywhere. Do the starter and expand as the public demands.

I didn't get to ride the trolley when I was there in Feb 2007.  The group I was with wanted to see the Clinton Library. We were on our way back from Memphis on a Sunday. (Memphis also has a (real) trolley, we used that one to go to dinner.) The trolley  extension to the Library wasn't open then.
[/quote]
The trolley covers such a small area the only time it would be quicker (unless you timed it perfect and didn't have to wait at the stop) would be if you were going to north little rock.  It was pretty bad how few people were riding it.  It wasn't expensive but to go 6 blocks why pay a dollar and wait for the trolley when I could easily walk 6 blocks in 5 or 6 minutes?  

It is NOT mass transit, its a convenience for tourists and maybe a few citizens but tahts it.

Furthermore, a trolley isn't going to fix Tulsa's downtown, sorry.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by OUGrad05
The trolley covers such a small area the only time it would be quicker (unless you timed it perfect and didn't have to wait at the stop) would be if you were going to north little rock.  It was pretty bad how few people were riding it.  It wasn't expensive but to go 6 blocks why pay a dollar and wait for the trolley when I could easily walk 6 blocks in 5 or 6 minutes?  

It is NOT mass transit, its a convenience for tourists and maybe a few citizens but tahts it.

Furthermore, a trolley isn't going to fix Tulsa's downtown, sorry.

A trolley won't fix a downtown that isn't there. Even most ardent rail fans will admit that. It can be a part of a revitalized downtown. No need to be sorry.

It may not be MASS transit in Little Rock yet but it may develop into it. Where I spent my first 20 years in suburban Philadelphia, PA, trolleys were a definite part of the mass transit system.  The early part of the 20th century had the luxury of not having any real competition from automobiles or buses.  There is too much history regarding the demise of the trolley systems for this thread.  Some of it resulted in a token fine to General Motors.  Light Rail/trolleys are making a come-back in many cities in the US. See www.lightrailnow.org  (Real) Trolleys are mass transit.


http://www.septa.com/maps/route_101_102.html

[Kashmir]

I went to Springfield, Mo this weekend and was surprised at their cool, funky little downtown.  The college area spills into downtown and there are lots of small shops, places to eat, and LOTS of people walking around, both on a Thursday evening and a Friday midday.  

[sauerkraut]

I have been in Little Rock in 2003 but never stood longer than a day. I found it to be a nice town but I don't know much about it of what they offer. I don't think they have much in way of jogging trails, as a runner that would be very important for me. I don't like running on the streets.

[AVERAGE JOE]

Anyone else notice the irony? This thread talks about how dead our downtown is, and another active thread talks about the traffic jam downtown this morning because of an event.

So we want a fun, active, happening downtown... as long as there aren't any people to deal with?

[marc]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

Anyone else notice the irony? This thread talks about how dead our downtown is, and another active thread talks about the traffic jam downtown this morning because of an event.

So we want a fun, active, happening downtown... as long as there aren't any people to deal with?

I noticed that as well, having seen the story about the traffic jam on KJRH.

Although to be fair, I suppose they meant downtown activity on an everyday basis, not just during large BOK events.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

Anyone else notice the irony? This thread talks about how dead our downtown is, and another active thread talks about the traffic jam downtown this morning because of an event.

So we want a fun, active, happening downtown... as long as there aren't any people to deal with?

When I said a trolley won't fix a downtown that isn't there, I was speaking in general.  I can see how someone might think I was referring to Tulsa, but I wasn't.

[dayzella]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I have been in Little Rock in 2003 but never stood longer than a day. I found it to be a nice town but I don't know much about it of what they offer. I don't think they have much in way of jogging trails, as a runner that would be very important for me. I don't like running on the streets.

http://www.rivertrail.org/

[OUGrad05]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

Anyone else notice the irony? This thread talks about how dead our downtown is, and another active thread talks about the traffic jam downtown this morning because of an event.

So we want a fun, active, happening downtown... as long as there aren't any people to deal with?

You have got to be kidding me :rolleyes:

[Gold]

I went to Little Rock over the weekend and was not impressed at all.  The development downtown is really about a block or two in length.  It's not bad, but it kind of reminds me of Brookside in the early 90's when Sharkey's first opened up.  

The neighboring areas kind of remind me of the "uptown" thing between the BA and 15th on Cheyenne.  Just kind of a nether-region -- not particularly good, not particularly bad.  OK to walk through, but no one else is walking.

We went to some dueling piano bar (that like Full Moon, also had a blind piano player).  I was most put off by the mural of a city over the bar -- it wasn't Little Rock, but rather a mural of Chicago.  Talk abour civic pride . . .

A lot of the bars close at 1:00 am, which is super-lame.

We ate at a fish place yesterday and it was decent.  I will say that there were an unusual number of people walking around for a Sunday afternoon, though it didn't look like a lot of commerce was taking place.

We stayed at a Courtyard by Marriot that just wasn't very nice.  They kind of tried, but it had some design flaws, like the extremely narrow hallway to get to the parking garage and the lack of any signage or concierge to tell you to park in the parking garage behind the hotel.

Their streetcars run around downtown, but I'm not sure why you would take them.  It's not that big an area.  I passed several streetcars in two days and saw a grand total of two passengers, both of whom were clearly visitors.  The streetcar was running Sunday, even though it looked like no one was interested.

We went by the Clinton Library and it's nothing to get excited about.  In fact, all I could figure is that it employs a bunch of people to not work very hard (staff was attentive, but there was no one there).

The Alltel Center (their arena) looks like the Reynolds Center.

Bottom line, Tulsa is much better off without really making the organized effort that Little Rock tried.  I came away a little more thankful for Tulsa, to be honest.

[OUGrad05]

quote:Originally posted by Gold

I went to Little Rock over the weekend and was not impressed at all.  The development downtown is really about a block or two in length.  It's not bad, but it kind of reminds me of Brookside in the early 90's when Sharkey's first opened up.  

The neighboring areas kind of remind me of the "uptown" thing between the BA and 15th on Cheyenne.  Just kind of a nether-region -- not particularly good, not particularly bad.  OK to walk through, but no one else is walking.

We went to some dueling piano bar (that like Full Moon, also had a blind piano player).  I was most put off by the mural of a city over the bar -- it wasn't Little Rock, but rather a mural of Chicago.  Talk abour civic pride . . .

A lot of the bars close at 1:00 am, which is super-lame.

We ate at a fish place yesterday and it was decent.  I will say that there were an unusual number of people walking around for a Sunday afternoon, though it didn't look like a lot of commerce was taking place.

We stayed at a Courtyard by Marriot that just wasn't very nice.  They kind of tried, but it had some design flaws, like the extremely narrow hallway to get to the parking garage and the lack of any signage or concierge to tell you to park in the parking garage behind the hotel.

Their streetcars run around downtown, but I'm not sure why you would take them.  It's not that big an area.  I passed several streetcars in two days and saw a grand total of two passengers, both of whom were clearly visitors.  The streetcar was running Sunday, even though it looked like no one was interested.

We went by the Clinton Library and it's nothing to get excited about.  In fact, all I could figure is that it employs a bunch of people to not work very hard (staff was attentive, but there was no one there).

The Alltel Center (their arena) looks like the Reynolds Center.

Bottom line, Tulsa is much better off without really making the organized effort that Little Rock tried.  I came away a little more thankful for Tulsa, to be honest.

Oh I'd much rather live in Tulsa than Little Rock but the area just to the East of the Peabody was pretty nice and the Peabody itself was really nice...especially the steak house

But I was ready to be back home when I got here.  Overall Tulsa is a much MUCH nicer town, but it really bothers me that we have all this potential and our city officials constantly want to line their pockets instead of doing whats right for Tulsa...

Anyone else following the downtown hotel story?

[perspicuity85]

I have been to Little Rock several times, and found the streetcars to be quite nice.  However, as someone pointed out earlier, they don't really go anywhere, except around the same couple of downtown blocks, and across the river (I think).

I really think Tulsa is more suited for streetcars than LR, because of Tulsa's multiple urban districts within a short driving distance of each other.  In my opinion, streetcars are ideal for travel between Brookside, Cherry St., Utica Square, all around Downtown, the Brady Arts District, and Greenwood.  I'd like to see Tulsa follow LR's lead and improve it.

[Red Arrow]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

I have been to Little Rock several times, and found the streetcars to be quite nice.  However, as someone pointed out earlier, they don't really go anywhere, except around the same couple of downtown blocks, and across the river (I think).

I really think Tulsa is more suited for streetcars than LR, because of Tulsa's multiple urban districts within a short driving distance of each other.  In my opinion, streetcars are ideal for travel between Brookside, Cherry St., Utica Square, all around Downtown, the Brady Arts District, and Greenwood.  I'd like to see Tulsa follow LR's lead and improve it.

They go across the river to N. Little Rock and out to the Clinton Library. I have read they want to extend the tracks to the airport.