Neighborhood Unhappy With City Hall

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

It's not the elected officials I have a problem. It's the idiots they get their information from, the underlings tied to the people who care only for themselves, and the incompetents they continue to let make mistake after mistake without accountability.

Sorry, you edited your response, so I deleted mine.

[FOTD]

Sorry as well....but are you and RM one in the same?

Tulsa's detoriorating infrastructure is a direct reflection of the staff running the city. If we were a corporation, heads would have rolled under Young and Randle and Secretary Savage. Strong Mayors must depend on experienced heads of departments who manipulate truths and deceive not only the public but their bosses as well.

[PonderInc]

Wow.  I didn't know that the city provides grocery stores and service stations.  What department does that fall under?

I don't really need a service station or grocery store in my 'hood, but I would like a Pizza.Toms at the corner of 41st and Harvard.  (Still have fond memories of that "Shrimp of Hearts pizza...).  If the city doesn't make Tom open a pizza place on that corner, I'm going to start my own victimization organization!

(Also, how do I get on the city's lawn mowing list?  I've been mowing the lawn since I was 13, and I'm tired of it...)

[FOTD]

That would be the stupidity department....a conglomeration of all the city department heads.

I'm gonna quit bashing Bush and the Busheviks. The dopes at city hall are a better target going forward into the haze.

[TheArtist]

The demographics wont support putting a business there. Even with very cheap property in the area. If your trying to get financing the bank is going to do a demographic and income analysis, a large chain will do the same thing. They are searching for the best area to put something and make a profit and compete with the competing company who is also hunting for the best location. They are not trying to do charity work. As for service stations, it seems like every service station that is near the area ends up being robbed and someone killed. Thats an additional underlying crime problem which must be addressed before such a business will consider being in the area...after considering traffic counts, growth curves, etc.  

However, the city can do some things to encourage growth in an area. Not specific companies per say, but growth in general. Dont have any answers right off but I am thinking of a general direction of getting jobs in the area so perhaps some sort of effort and tax incentive to bring a major employer to the area thus once you get jobs and more people, the retail and grocery stores will have a bit more of a reason to be there.



Basically they need more people in the area, more jobs, more rooftops, higher incomes, etc.  Then the businesses will follow. I mean look at how difficult and long an uphill battle its been just to try and get things going downtown. Hopefully once downtown does take off growth will grow out from that core into north Tulsa.


I dont think you can just say, ok we want a grocery store or service station and the city make that happen. The demographics and underlying economics have to change first. Any other ideas on what could be done?

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

Wow.  I didn't know that the city provides grocery stores and service stations.  What department does that fall under?

Just a hunch...... But I would have to place that with the  following.....

At least I like to think we are paying them several million a year for something...

Wouldn't you think a new Hotel would be a priority with these fellows...

But nooooooooo.... we have to hire some out of towners to lure a Hotel..
[}:)]

[OUGrad05]

North Tulsa will be ignored as long as its full of idiots that dont understand what government is supposed to provide.  Businesses move out of North Tulsa because of robberies and low income housing.  If they aren't profitable they leave, end of story.

If people of North Tulsa want such amenities they should quit stealing from the businesses they have.  They might also want to help report and combat crime in the area as well.  North Tulsa is a slum by most standards and expecting a Neiman ****ing Marcus to move in is absurd...they can't even keep albertsons/food pyramid in business.  They want the government to provide unprofitable services ....who woulda thought :rolleyes:

[waterboy]

Albertson's left all over the city, not just on the north side.  I believe there is a viable market there to be served that encompasses more than just the near northside. Leadership is a factor. There was a grocer with experience in East St.Louis that wanted to talk to us about the Albertson's location. Our two northside councilors would not hear of it (since they hadn't contacted this guy) until they made sure that locals with no experience had a chance to sour the milk. Remember the job fair they had that turned into a trial balloon for job interest...then disappeared altogether? Thanks Roscoe and co.

I have to say that Tulsa accomplished an awful lot under the old commission form of government. It undoubtedly was not truly representative of the electorate but the separation of responsibility and accountability was clear cut. You couldn't backslide with out someone noticing. Somehow we jumped from unfair, to vague and unresponsive, to practically incompetent (when it comes to roads anyway). To be honest, the councilor form sucks and needs to be redesigned.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by OUGrad05

North Tulsa will be ignored as long as its full of idiots that dont understand what government is supposed to provide.  Businesses move out of North Tulsa because of robberies and low income housing.  If they aren't profitable they leave, end of story.

If people of North Tulsa want such amenities they should quit stealing from the businesses they have.  They might also want to help report and combat crime in the area as well.  North Tulsa is a slum by most standards and expecting a Neiman ****ing Marcus to move in is absurd...they can't even keep albertsons/food pyramid in business.  They want the government to provide unprofitable services ....who woulda thought :rolleyes:

Since it was government who decided to concentrate much of the low income housing, social services, and urban renewal that ultimately resulted in vast amounts of vacant lots in this once thriving middle class area; I think North Tulsa residents have a better understanding of services the government is supposed to provide than most Tulsans, considering the government disservices they have been subjected to in this community.

[OUGrad05]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by OUGrad05

North Tulsa will be ignored as long as its full of idiots that dont understand what government is supposed to provide.  Businesses move out of North Tulsa because of robberies and low income housing.  If they aren't profitable they leave, end of story.

If people of North Tulsa want such amenities they should quit stealing from the businesses they have.  They might also want to help report and combat crime in the area as well.  North Tulsa is a slum by most standards and expecting a Neiman ****ing Marcus to move in is absurd...they can't even keep albertsons/food pyramid in business.  They want the government to provide unprofitable services ....who woulda thought :rolleyes:

Since it was government who decided to concentrate much of the low income housing, social services, and urban renewal that ultimately resulted in vast amounts of vacant lots in this once thriving middle class area; I think North Tulsa residents have a better understanding of services the government is supposed to provide than most Tulsans, considering the government disservices they have been subjected to in this community.

So you're arguing the city of tulsa should be responsible for providing businesses to the people in the area?

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by OUGrad05

quote:Originally posted by Double A

quote:Originally posted by OUGrad05

North Tulsa will be ignored as long as its full of idiots that dont understand what government is supposed to provide.  Businesses move out of North Tulsa because of robberies and low income housing.  If they aren't profitable they leave, end of story.

If people of North Tulsa want such amenities they should quit stealing from the businesses they have.  They might also want to help report and combat crime in the area as well.  North Tulsa is a slum by most standards and expecting a Neiman ****ing Marcus to move in is absurd...they can't even keep albertsons/food pyramid in business.  They want the government to provide unprofitable services ....who woulda thought :rolleyes:

Since it was government who decided to concentrate much of the low income housing, social services, and urban renewal that ultimately resulted in vast amounts of vacant lots in this once thriving middle class area; I think North Tulsa residents have a better understanding of services the government is supposed to provide than most Tulsans, considering the government disservices they have been subjected to in this community.

So you're arguing the city of tulsa should be responsible for providing businesses to the people in the area?

No North Tulsa Tax!

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by FOTD

quote:Originally posted by RecycleMichael

FOTD and doubleA have once again blamed the elected officials for all the world's problems. Between you two, you have attacked the council, the Mayor, the state reps and senators, the U.S. reps and senators from Oklahoma, the Governor and the President.

It is funny that FOTD suggested that somebody else should move.

My question for you two malcontents is...are there any elected official around here that you do support?

You've got a conflict of interest. So, cut with the personal attacks.

Your starting to be a parrot with this line AOX.  Every time someone calls you out you whine that they are attacking you.  The statement was factual and not insulting one bit.

What was a personal attack in his statement?
- - -

If the area can sustain a grocery store or the other amenities that they want, then it will come.  The city can encourage development there like anywhere else, but making it business friendly and providing basic amenities that a city is responsible for.  But when the retailers leave and their very nice spaces sit empty with no takers, it's hard for the city to do anything about it.

No one from the North Side has stepped up and tried to start a home-spun chain I've noticed.  This can't be a problem unique to Tulsa's poor areas, find a formula for a successful general store in poor areas and you could be a rich man.

[Osupikapp1]

If I remember correctly...
The Albertsons was built with public assistance to help defer the costs and make the store more sustainable in a long term situation.  
With ALbertsons folding completly in Oklahoma, I wonder if that same incentive was passed along to the next tennant, or are the property owners going for full price?  

And when was the last time you thought "hey lets go out north to go watch a movie... Oh no theaters, how about that new chain restaruant over on the north side.. Nope...

What seems to work is mom and pop businesses that have very close ties to the community.  
But they still get robbed, and stolen from, but they stay because the market is there for what they sell and they will make back the money they loose to theft.  

I could see a store that has a full time police officer on hand 24/7 that is small be sucessful.  
Maybe an ALDI type of store.  But Walmart wont waste their money to build.  Your out of your mind.

Osupikapp1

[Hometown]

I live in North Tulsa.  I hear stories about how great the services were in our neighborhood when Mayor Terry Young lived there.  These days we plan on being the last entry on the city's "to do list."  After the ice storm everyone said, they'll pick us up last.  Three days after the city announced the pickups were complete the trucks showed up in my neighborhood.

Guess what?  This is the United States.  You get as much justice as you can afford.  Neighborhoods with well placed and powerful advocates get the lion's share of city services.  Surprised?  Where have you been?

With this in mind I have started to think of South Tulsa as a vampire sucking the blood out of city resources.  But that's okay.  You stay there and I'll stay where I am.  You can have South Tulsa.

All the City needs to do is stick to basics and provide:  public safety, good schools and infrastructure.  Business will follow.

After all North Tulsa is only minutes from downtown.  I mean, talk about saving gasoline.  When development shifts to the last undeveloped areas in the county, you won't be able to afford North Tulsa.  Nieman's will pay a premium to open a shop at Pine and Cincinnati.