Alternative to conservation districts

[Limabean]

If conservation districts are too controversial, does anyone have a better idea on how to keep a mcmansion from going in next door to your bungalow?

I guess the city could beef up its zoning laws and make them more reflective of the neighborhoods they govern....oh wait...that's a conservation district!

[booWorld]

My guess is that completely voluntary NCDs would not be very controversial.  But that's not the way the draft ordinance is written, hence the fears and arguments from the opposition.

Form based codes would be one way of preventing McMansions next to bungalows, but my guess is that FBCs would be even more controversial than NCDs.

[tulsa1603]

Just keep it simple: Beef up zoning limiting height, setbacks, garage door placement....not materials or "style".  I think conservation districts that say you have to have certain style or certain materials would be too open to interpretation and would lead to incredible amounts of red tape.  If I wanted to live in a cookie cutter south Tulsa neighborhood, I would.

For instance, there is a Tuscan house (much derided term, I know) at 34th and Utica, on the east side, or thereabouts, and I think it fits the neighborhood fine.  It's setback from the road like the other houses, it's garage is placed as discreetly as possible, and a Tuscan has a lower roof pitch, which matches the 1940s houses in the vicinity.  While it's not the same STYLE, it does fit in from a massing and proportion perspective.

[hoodlum]

interesting question

but i think we should ask are conservation districts really that controversial?

They have had great success in other cities so what is the obstacle here?

i think thats what we should address, i think it is about education.

this is a great indepth look at NCD's

[guido911]

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

Just keep it simple: Beef up zoning limiting height, setbacks, garage door placement....not materials or "style".  I think conservation districts that say you have to have certain style or certain materials would be too open to interpretation and would lead to incredible amounts of red tape.  If I wanted to live in a cookie cutter south Tulsa neighborhood, I would.

Speaking as someone who lives in a your derogatory-referred to "cookie cutter" neighborhood, I can tell you that my neighborhood required one hell of an expensive cookie cutter.
Why are people building their "McMansions" near these pure and pristine bungalows anyway. I mean, why put a Lexus in a Ford lot?  [}:)]

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

Just keep it simple: Beef up zoning limiting height, setbacks, garage door placement....not materials or "style".  I think conservation districts that say you have to have certain style or certain materials would be too open to interpretation and would lead to incredible amounts of red tape.  If I wanted to live in a cookie cutter south Tulsa neighborhood, I would.

Speaking as someone who lives in a your derogatory-referred to "cookie cutter" neighborhood, I can tell you that my neighborhood required one hell of an expensive cookie cutter.
Why are people building their "McMansions" near these pure and pristine bungalows anyway. I mean, why put a Lexus in a Ford lot?  [}:)]

No ****!

I keep promising I'm going to take photos of all the turds which have been dropped into the midst of otherwise really nice established neighborhoods which up to that point had a similar development style.

I guess my point is, if someone wants a "Tuscan nightmare" (thanks to Tim Huntzinger for coining the phrase) why not build it on virgin dirt out south and save pissing off the neighbors.

[hoodlum]

You would be absolutely shocked how many of us live here.

The majority of the great architecture of Tulsa was done by architects who wanted to build something new, and because of this we attract pilgrims every year to visit our architecture. Case in point the National Trust for Historic Preservation conference in October which is coming for our abundance of Art Deco and Modern architecture. Both styles that refused traditional forms for something new and more indicative of its time and place.

i live here and decry building cheapening replicas of an old style. Tulsa has some of the most spectacular architecture in the region. Why not build upon that heritage instead of copying/ duplicating it which i believe cheapens the original architecture. The significant and historical architecture of Tulsa was progressive when it was built. Art Deco and Modern architecture thrived in Tulsa. these are what we celebrate and what make Tulsa unique.  In the 40's, 50's and 60's a building from Tulsa graced the pages of architectural record or progressive architecture almost monthly. Today? i am not sure that anything from tulsa has been featured in what 10 maybe 15 years? Could be wrong i will have to check. Could be because a lot of faux historical buildings are going up blanding our streets and genericizing our architecture. I mean the faux tuscan buildings we put up around here could be anywhere and are. However Boston avenue church isn't everywhere, our civic center isn't everywhere, the BOk arena isn't everywhere.


if we have new technologies and materials why not use them?

we don't wear top hats anymore, we don't ride around in horse and buggies, we dont throw the bed pan out into the street in the morning. Why? because as a society we have progressed, changed and created. Why should our built environment be a reflection of our times.

If those who built the cathedrals of europe had another structural method of holding up the walls other than flying buttress' they would have, and if they were around today they would never in a million years think to replicate their building/ design process when they have new technologies and materials such as steel, transparent concrete, aerogel, aluminum or computers. They would also find our attempts at copying historic details absurd; such as arched door ways with keystones or my biggest pet peeve of all time, fake shutters that even if they did close, which they don't, could never cover the windows they flank. they would ask themselves...why?

oh and another thing i think it is something like only 2% of all homes built in the US involve an architect. Please don't blame us for the scourge in this country that is residential design.

[Robinson]

The people who were up in arms about their rights getting infringed on -- obviously haven't had a McMansion built next to them -- Just wait. We've got a council that is all about giving developers everything they want. We won't even recognize Tulsa in 2 years.

A few lot splits around 33rd and Delaware would be great. Cram several town houses in there and lets see some heads roll.

[hoodlum]

meant why shouldn't our built environment

The fact that Tulsa isn't old is exactly why as city wide contextual development goes our history with which to base future reference upon is interconnected with a more progressive approach towards architecture.

good discussion.

[hoodlum]

and just one last thing

arguably the most important architecture firm in Tulsa's history was Murray Jones Murray. Robert Jones of the aforementioned firm worked under the great European architect Ludwig Mies van de Rohe. MJM's buildings are defining buildings of Tulsa physical history. So see our architectural history from MJM to Art Deco is deeply rooted in European Architectural theory. So i for one would say that the influx of ideas from the west coast and east coast and europe are the exact things that define Tulsa as a uniquely cultural town.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

One thing I despise about architects is their insistance on everything being new. Not just with home architecture but with architecture in general.

Some architects insist on everything looking old or being shrouded by some historic architectural style.

[booWorld]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Its Neighborhoods like Mapleridge and Lortondale and ones that have mostly bungalos that actually give Tulsa its unique Identity.

As I watch those neighborhoods get more Mc Mansions I cant help but be reminded of countless other "cookie cutter" INFILL neighborhoods I have seen in other cities.

Where are the McMansions in Lortondale?

[hoodlum]

currently there are no mcmansions in lortondale, but there sure are some hideously insensitive remodels

[booWorld]

McMansions are not an urgent problem for most of Tulsa.  I'd guess that most Tulsans don't care about McMansions.  I could be wrong.

I can't think of any McMansions in my neighborhood.  Perhaps there are some, but if so, I haven't noticed them.  I haven't seen any in Lortondale, but I'm not in Lortondale very often.

[hoodlum]

i think there is a lot of talk about Mcmansions in Tulsa refering to really any type of insensitive infill.

Maybe what we need is a place to photograph these things and post them.