Amish school shooting

[sgrizzle]

http://www.news24.com/News24/World/News/0,,2-10-1462_2007109,00.html

In all seriousness, if this is a student, I doubt anyone can assert that it was the fault of video games or movies. 3 school shootings in under a week is a big problem. With more and more shootings, it seems like metal detectors and clear backpacks may not be the solution.

Where is the breakdown? Is it faculty? Is it the parents?

[Jammie]

Isn't it awful? We just heard about it on the noon news.[]

IMHO using tv and video games and movies are all just poor excuses for not accepting responsibility for your behavior. In most cases the shooters are not young children. By the age of 15, 16, 17 or whatever ages most of them have been, they should be old enough to know that murder is wrong. There is no outside influence that could make most people murder anyone, let alone go on a shooting rampage.

Not sure how old most of you here are, but I'll bet several of you remember Gunsmoke, the Lone Ranger, Roy Rogers, etc. We had a lot of shows back then that had a lot of shoot-outs, but we could distinguish those shows from reality.

IMHO it isn't the fault of the parents or the schools or anyone else. It's the fault of a young person feeling they have the right to take the lives of others.[]

[RecycleMichael]

He was a 32 year-old milk truck driver.

May he rot in hell.

[sgrizzle]

I can't figure out why you would shoot schoolkids, much less AMISH ones...

Makes no sense.

[iplaw]

These things seem to happen in groupings; no doubt the product of a 24 hour news cycle.  There is no other rational conclusion to be drawn, as these things are not a daily occurrence, and they tend to happen successively as opposed to singular events.  A perpetual new cycle adds fuel to the fire for people who have tendencies towards perpetrating something like this.

[TheArtist]

If a kid is having a hard time or is basically just a "bad seed" and you add a bit of depression, some bullying, alienation, often disinterest at home, etc.  Knowing right from wrong becomes irrelevant.  A lot of these kids report feeling suicidal, when you feel so terrible you could kill yourself...

There are so often signs that these kids need help, but not only are they not getting it, they usually get just the opposite. We cant yet say for sure why one kid goes over the edge and another very similar one does not. One hypothesis is that narcissism could play a role.  But if we were to act to lessen the alienation, bullying, watch for depression and behaviors which indicate someone needs help, and DO something about it, it would go a long way in lessening the chances that these horrible things would happen, in taking some "fuel off the fire".   When there are so many common factors with these kids it seems folly to ignore those factors and say, well it was just a horrible evil person who should know right from wrong.

  All diseases whether physical or mental have a symptomology, a list of things that if a person has then labels that person as having that disease or mental state.

 Whats the difference between a cold, flue, or allergies?  All 3 have similar symptoms but all 3 have different ones and different causes as well.  Its the full compliment of factors that  you have and dont have that give you the label of having one or the other.  

Yes many of us got depressed, or were bullied, or were part of one or another outsider group or even a loner etc.  The more of those "sypmtoms", and others, you have the more likely that person will fit the label.  More so than someone who doesnt, like the popular person, the football player, the happy helpful person etc. Some factors make you more likely, others less likely.

I contend that its not just having several of those factors or syptoms that will lead someone to do a certain thing.  But having them can make them, more likely, than if they do not.  And just as there is no one factor to cause it, then it will take alleviating more than one to remedy it.

However, taking this "disease" analogy even further.  There are people who really are mentally ill, where something is wrong with the wiring or chemistry of the brain. But those are usually a small group of people and we have to differentiate between them and those that can be helped with our present knowledge.


As for video games and violence on TV.  If you are elderly, or have an auto immune deficiency, you are more likely to catch another disease and be more likely to suffer worse from it when you do.  If your strong and healthy you may not even get a disease even when having the exact same amount of exposure and even when you do it will hardly bother you compared to someone who is already sick or weak.  Video games and TV violence are not a cause but can be an influencing factor to someone who is already mentally unwell.  Its also interesting to note that its those very people who often expose themselves to far more of that type of violence. When your well, no problem, if your sick and hurting, not such a good thing.



Some varied and interesting reading...

http://www.psychologymatters.org/bullying.html

http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/articles/trauma/selflove.html

http://www.slate.com/id/2099203/

http://www.alternet.org/story/24801/

[Jammie]

Artist, I'm glad you posted those links. I'm familiar with the first one and plan to read the others. Psychology has always fascinated me and we happen to have someone in our family who suffers from NPD so it's a familiar subject. Or should I say that we, along with other family members suffer because of the NPD.[}:)]

[Conan71]

I would tend to agree with IP's statement.  Sensational national news coverage makes it attractive for some loner nut-job to make a statement and to finally be noticed by millions of people.  

That's not the sole impetus and there are many other factors leading up to it, but having the fame, recognition, and making one hell of a final statement become very attractive to these twisted individuals, instead of just putting the barrel in their mouth in the basement.

[LilMikey]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I can't figure out why you would shoot schoolkids, much less AMISH ones...

Makes no sense.

NOt that this makes any sense, but not only was the man insane, he picked victims which he knew would be totally defensless.  He was also a coward.

[iplaw]

The lovely "church" that protests at military funerals is planning a protest of the funerals of these little ones...[xx(]

[patric]

On the other end of the spectrum, does it sound like were way past the point of crying wolf here?

"Four teens shoplift knives from the Bass Pro Shop and force four Broken Arrow schools to be put on lockdown for about an hour. Centennial Middle school, Country Lane Elementary, Broken Arrow High School and Westwood Elementary were locked down as police looked for the teens. One of the teens was arrested the others were given citations."
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=A80AFE07-6CF1-4634-95AF-C5A60D6EA12E

[jdb]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

The lovely "church" that protests at military funerals is planning a protest of the funerals of these little ones...[xx(]

It's about making headlines.

Too bad some news can't be combined beforehand.

"B.A. Teens Stab Sick F*** with Stolen Knifes"