Thawing of the Ice Cube Deal?

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

Yeah, I saw that.  So you were just referring to their getting SBC as a customer?

Yep.  They are fiber guys, and SBC is a huge fiber user.  It's WilTel's clients that are of value to them.  And, of course, the data pipes.  They need consolidation in order to get rid of the glut, access new markets, etc., and ultimately charge higher rates. So, Level 3 probably got exactly what it needed out of the deal and is ready to move on.

The holding co., Leucadia, I guess could choose to wait things out if they wanted...they own real estate.  But they, too, have probably already made what they wanted out of the deal and would just as soon liquidate a money-losing asset and have some cash on hand for the next big leveraged buyout.

So, in the scheme of things, dumping a piece of real estate for pennies on the dollar is not a dumb business move for people like this.  Likewise, I suppose, buying a building like this for pennies on the dollar, if you have a use for it, can be brilliant, too.

I think a lot of people may have lost sight of the bigger picture, assuming they ever had a big picture view.  Williams very nearly failed a few years back, and they have fought their way back.  But in the process they had to sell off a ton of assets, refocus and un-diversify.  OTC was a cast off that really didn't have a purpose anymore.  We taxpayers got a great price for it and will put it to good use.  We can sell off the old buildings for redevelopment and be in pretty great shape.  On top that, Williams is in great shape now, too.  Things are looking pretty swell, in my opinion.

I don't really see the downside of this deal, except for the fact that it was a girl who thunk it up.  I'm kidding, of course.  But some critics, even smart ones, seem want to tar the mayor for this.  Why?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.

What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?

Bueller?  Bueller?

Where'd you come up with that number?

And don't forget, also, that the building sat there for sale for years and they could not find a buyer.  Sat there more than 1/2 vacant for years and they could not find tenants.  And then along came our mayor with her many years of business experience... we'll see how the story ends, but it's not looking like a happy ending for Tulsa's citizens.

I believe $600M was the total cost. $300M for the structure, $300M for the furnishings and finishings.

ROFL   Wow, some people will believe anything...  Show me one credible source that says that building cost $300 million OR that it cost $300 million to furnish it.  Those numbers are insane.

It sold (used) in 2004 for $120M from Williams who packaged it with the rest of wiltel. Can't find the cost of the furnishings but $300M is the estimated cost to build (per Urban Tulsa in an article largely against buying the building)

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

Don't forget, also, that the building cost in the neighborhood of $300 million to build.

What is it that the proud new owner, the City of Tulsa, paid for the structure?

Bueller?  Bueller?

Where'd you come up with that number?

And don't forget, also, that the building sat there for sale for years and they could not find a buyer.  Sat there more than 1/2 vacant for years and they could not find tenants.  And then along came our mayor with her many years of business experience... we'll see how the story ends, but it's not looking like a happy ending for Tulsa's citizens.

I believe $600M was the total cost. $300M for the structure, $300M for the furnishings and finishings.

ROFL   Wow, some people will believe anything...  Show me one credible source that says that building cost $300 million OR that it cost $300 million to furnish it.  Those numbers are insane.

It sold (used) in 2004 for $120M from Williams who packaged it with the rest of wiltel. Can't find the cost of the furnishings but $300M is the estimated cost to build (per Urban Tulsa in an article largely against buying the building)

I rather suspect that $300 million (to the extent it is accurate) includes the furnishings.

[YoungTulsan]

Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC?  They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl.   An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital


I rather suspect that $300 million (to the extent it is accurate) includes the furnishings.

That's probably about right, and would make sense.  I am interested to tour the place, once it's all set up.  If nothing else, the coffee bar/eating facilities will be a step up for the city employees.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC?  They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl.   An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?

They use a different elevator bay.  The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.

Car break-ins are expected to increase.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC?  They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl.   An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?

They use a different elevator bay.  The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.

Car break-ins are expected to increase.

Level 3 has floors 2, 11, 12, and 13.  The city will have levels 4,5,6,9, 14, and 15.  Seems pretty unlikely that Level 3 could have its own bank of elevators serving those particular floors.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC?  They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl.   An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?

They use a different elevator bay.  The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.

Car break-ins are expected to increase.

Level 3 has floors 2, 11, 12, and 13.  The city will have levels 4,5,6,9, 14, and 15.  Seems pretty unlikely that Level 3 could have its own bank of elevators serving those particular floors.

Vyvx...keep up

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC?  They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl.   An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?

They use a different elevator bay.  The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.

Car break-ins are expected to increase.

Level 3 has floors 2, 11, 12, and 13.  The city will have levels 4,5,6,9, 14, and 15.  Seems pretty unlikely that Level 3 could have its own bank of elevators serving those particular floors.

Vyvx...keep up

LOL   Well, Smartass, Vyvx is part of Level 3, are they not?  Presumably, they are housed in part of Level 3's space in the OTC, since only Level 3 and D&T lease space there....   Now, tell me, if Vyvx is housed on ANY of Level 3's leased floors, how would they have their own elevator bank.  Not bloody likely.

[Renaissance]

I've always wanted my own private elevator.  I figure I'll get that about the time . . . I build my own private building.

[TheArtist]

I wonder if the city will be able to parse down a few of its employees after this? Wont need as many receptionists thats for sure. Every building had at least one, sometimes different floors had one. May not need as many cleaning/maintenance people. Seems they had a security person at many of the buildings too. Perhaps they could use one of them for the parking garage if they forsee a problem there. I hope the Mayor is able to take some of that lean corporate downsizing experience and trim off any "redundancies".  Even just getting rid of 3 or 4 people, over the course of 10 years that can add up to a decent sum of money.

[Double A]

A building that has consistently depreciated in value will suddenly become an appreciating asset?

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital


I rather suspect that $300 million (to the extent it is accurate) includes the furnishings.

That's probably about right, and would make sense.  I am interested to tour the place, once it's all set up.  If nothing else, the coffee bar/eating facilities will be a step up for the city employees.

And I'm not really buying that $300 Million number either, furnished or unfurnished.

Here's a decent comparison:  The new headquarters building Enron had almost completed, but not occupied at the time of their demise.  Built roughly the same time.  40 stories tall (height generally adds a lot to construction costs);  1.2 Million Square Feet (vs. 750,000 in OTC), also VERY high tech (including 4 huge trading floors) and VERY high-end finishes throughout.  Total cost: $200 Million.  Makes a $100 Million cost for OTC look a whole lot more likely than $300 Million.

[TulsaSooner]

I believe there are security card "readers" on the elevators.  Presumably, only Level 3 employees would be coded to access Level 3 floors.

[Townsend]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by Townsend

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Does anyone know if Vyvx operates in the OTC?  They're the branch of Williams Communications/now Level3, that does "mission critical" transmissions for things such as the super bowl.   An operation like that might want to be some place more secure than a public city hall, no?

They use a different elevator bay.  The only concerns I'm hearing now is the need for extra garage security.

Car break-ins are expected to increase.

Level 3 has floors 2, 11, 12, and 13.  The city will have levels 4,5,6,9, 14, and 15.  Seems pretty unlikely that Level 3 could have its own bank of elevators serving those particular floors.

Vyvx...keep up

LOL   Well, Smartass, Vyvx is part of Level 3, are they not?  Presumably, they are housed in part of Level 3's space in the OTC, since only Level 3 and D&T lease space there....   Now, tell me, if Vyvx is housed on ANY of Level 3's leased floors, how would they have their own elevator bank.  Not bloody likely.

Sharing upper floor elevators with the top floor occupants.