INCOG planning for commuter rail

[tshane250]

I was doing some research for a comprehensive plan my firm is working on for the city of Thornton, Colorado and I came across a website for Denver's FasTracks system (light rail and rapid bus transit).  I found one of the successes they tout to be quite interesting and promising.  I just wonder if the thing makes money.

quote: Ridership on light rail has exceeded even the most optimistic projections, and carries over 35,000 riders per day.

FasTracks

[PonderInc]

quote:Originally posted by tshane250

I was doing some research for a comprehensive plan my firm is working on for the city of Thornton, Colorado and I came across a website for Denver's FasTracks system (light rail and rapid bus transit).  I found one of the successes they tout to be quite interesting and promising.  I just wonder if the thing makes money.  

I think the criteria for public transit shouldn't be "does it make money?"  The questions should be: "Is it efficient? Does it spur sustainable growth? Does it promote increased ridership, and thus protect the environment?  Does it make the city a better place to live?  Does it decrease dependence on auto/oil? Does it improve quality of life?"

Nobody ever says: "Does the National Guard make money?"  "Does the police department make money?"  "Does widening 81st and Yale make money?"  "Does the water department make money?"

I know I sound cranky...sorry about that, it's late...but it's like there's a double-standard for public transit.  

Random thought: If everyone's so worried about spending money on transit...how come Americans are so happy dropping $35,000 for a new SUV?  I wonder what that averages out per trip to the grocery store?  

Let's see...if you pay cash for the vehicle--ha!--and make 3 trips a day for 5 years, you'll be paying $6.40 per errand...oops...I forgot to include gas, insurance, tag, and maintenance costs.  Oh yeah...and the billions of tax dollars for the roads/highways/bridges...Should I get into public health costs associated with the sedentary lifestyle / car culture / pollution...nope, it's too late...)

Something tells me that efficient mass transit/rail actually does pay for itself afterall.

[tshane250]

quote: I know I sound cranky...sorry about that, it's late...but it's like there's a double-standard for public transit.

Man you are cranky!  No, actually I totally agree with you.  I was just wondering if their transit system made money as that would be a way of selling people on the idea.  I never really thought of calculating the cost of a vehicle trip.  Makes public transportation sound like a excellent idea!  If only the auto/oil/construction industries did not have so much money and clout.

[flyingcowz]

It's about time we get this already![!]

[Matthew.Dowty]

Tulsa World article on transit study that includes commuter rail.

[Matthew.Dowty]

Encirclement continues.  Kansas City voters approved a light rail plan and sales tax on election night.

Cities in this region with rail transit operating or in the pipeline:

Albuquerque
Austin
Dallas
Fort Worth
Houston
Kansas City
Little Rock
Memphis
Saint Louis

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by Transport_Oklahoma

Encirclement continues.  Kansas City voters approved a light rail plan and sales tax on election night.

Cities in this region with rail transit operating or in the pipeline:

Albuquerque
Austin
Dallas
Fort Worth
Houston
Kansas City
Little Rock
Memphis
Saint Louis

wow... rivermarket, downtown, crown center/union station, westport and the plaza all on a loop (not to mention coming within two-three blocks of every hospital in town)? with long-term legs to the airport and a two southern routes?
wow, holy crap and all 24 miles for just under $800 million... now THAT, i would pay for... talk about doing bold development for the future... beats the **** out of some asinine islands...

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by Transport_Oklahoma

Encirclement continues.  Kansas City voters approved a light rail plan and sales tax on election night.

Cities in this region with rail transit operating or in the pipeline:

Albuquerque
Austin
Dallas
Fort Worth
Houston
Kansas City
Little Rock
Memphis
Saint Louis

I think its a pity guided buses haven't been looked at as a serious contender. They are cheaper, have the same capacity as light rail and have the possibility of fanning out at the end of the guide way to serve low density communties.

planned guided bus way

[dsjeffries]

Seems like a really interesting, more viable (at least, for now) alternative!  It could be just the thing that Tulsa needs right now, for all the "low density nay-sayers".  Why haven't I heard of this before?

[bigdtottown]

From what I've read (not exhaustive) DART has been successful beyond expectations.  The fact that someone lives next to DART and does not use it doesn't really matter.  Many said Dallas residents would never ride a train anywhere and they were proven dead wrong.  They are probably the same ones that said NO ONE would live in high end apartments and condos in the Uptown area.  DART is also increasing home values and rental rates for any property near their stations.  I don't know for sure but Dallas has a lot of people relocating from areas with mass transit and that attitude may be rubbing off.  I'd much prefer sittin on a nice train as opposed to being stuck on Central if I lived in the burbs or worked downtown.

[Chris]

I really like the guided bus-way I wonder if the firm doing the study knows about them? If I converted right it looks like this project is costing their government $174,477,939 and the total cost is $219,118,366. Obviously right-of-way would be different here but I imagine this is less expensive than rail?

[si_uk_lon_ok]

Guided busways can be even cheaper than that. You have to remember that everything in the UK is a lot more and the system in Cambridge relies heavily on guided tracks, which is the most expensive part of the scheme. I think on many routes in retarmacing the road in a slightly different colour to indicate a bus only lane, monitoring this lane to ensure only buses use it and putting sensors at junctions to give buses automatic priority would be enough. I think that some guided routes could be used to squeeze dedicated route through some tight spots and maybe where a dedicated bus lane would be too wide.

I really hope they look at the possibility of using coach services to link the outer suburbs/ towns with downtown, which could utilise the dedicated bus lanes into the city.

I hope they don't only consider light rail as it may well not be the most appropriate form of mass transit for the city. I'm just concerned that this may have become a dick swinging exercise rather than considering the best option. Because lets face it buses aren't perceived as glamorous as light rail.

[snopes]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

quote:Originally posted by tshane250

I was doing some research for a comprehensive plan my firm is working on for the city of Thornton, Colorado and I came across a website for Denver's FasTracks system (light rail and rapid bus transit).  I found one of the successes they tout to be quite interesting and promising.  I just wonder if the thing makes money.  

I think the criteria for public transit shouldn't be "does it make money?"  The questions should be: "Is it efficient? Does it spur sustainable growth? Does it promote increased ridership, and thus protect the environment?  Does it make the city a better place to live?  Does it decrease dependence on auto/oil? Does it improve quality of life?"

Nobody ever says: "Does the National Guard make money?"  "Does the police department make money?"  "Does widening 81st and Yale make money?"  "Does the water department make money?"

I know I sound cranky...sorry about that, it's late...but it's like there's a double-standard for public transit.  

Random thought: If everyone's so worried about spending money on transit...how come Americans are so happy dropping $35,000 for a new SUV?  I wonder what that averages out per trip to the grocery store?  

Let's see...if you pay cash for the vehicle--ha!--and make 3 trips a day for 5 years, you'll be paying $6.40 per errand...oops...I forgot to include gas, insurance, tag, and maintenance costs.  Oh yeah...and the billions of tax dollars for the roads/highways/bridges...Should I get into public health costs associated with the sedentary lifestyle / car culture / pollution...nope, it's too late...)

Something tells me that efficient mass transit/rail actually does pay for itself afterall.

I totally agree with Ponder. In the long run, mass transit does pay off in many ways other than an immediate payoff in dividends.

[Matthew.Dowty]

Commuter Rail Meetings Feb. 22 February 14, 2007  

Tulsa Transit is holding the second round of public meetings for the Commuter Rail Feasibility Study.#65533; You are invited to attend either or both of the meetings to get an update on the study progress including survey results, potential station locations, and details on the#65533;major employment centers that could possibly be served#65533;along the corridor.#65533; We will also receive input from the public.

Please provide your input on our online survey.

Thursday, February 22, 2007

12:00 Noon
Centennial Park Central Community Center
1028 E. 6th Street (6th & S. Peoria)
http://www.cityoftulsa.org/recreation/parks/CommCenter.asp
(Pizza and Sodas at the meeting)

4:30 PM
Nienhuis Park Community Center, Broken Arrow
3201 N. 9th Street
Building is located at Lynn Lane just north of 61st
http://www.brokenarrowok.gov/our-citizens/quality_life/city_parks/youth_center.htm
(Pizza and Sodas at the meeting)

[PonderInc]

quote:Originally posted by Transport_Oklahoma

Please provide your input on our online survey.

How do we access the online survey?