Traffic Ticket

[tulsa_fan]

Rowdy - I am sorry you didn't win your case.  My husband is a Tulsa Officer and I told him about your post from the beginning.  In the end, he was surprised with the information you took to court that you didn't win.  But I have to say I'm losing faith in you as well.  You have come down on the entire department because of one bad experience.  I am fairly sure I know the officer that pulled you over based on your posts, and I don't know him to be crooked.  He probably was using his best memory, but I won't swear he was right.  I wasn't there.  It happens, he's human, not hateful.  Don't let Wilbur get to you.  It seems he is taking this personal, and he shouldn't.  To act like a citizen will never have a bad opinion about an encounter with an officer is wrong.  

I am sure there are bad apples on the department, just as any company any of you work with, but a HUGE majority of these officers put a vest on their chest everyday willing to take a bullet for the same of you who are willing to call them all corrupt.  It's easy to jump on a bandwagon when someone feels they've been wronged, but you should remember that officers are there for you 24/7, they are also human.  They are asked to treat some of the slimiest people in this town with curtesy and respect, sometimes, they fail just a bit.

Again, Rowdy, I was pulling for you, I thought you had a good case and if you presented yourself in court professionally and rationally, I am surprised you didn't fair better.  The officer is well trained in testifying in the courts.  I truly don't believe he was out to get you and purger himself.  He is testifying to the best of his knowledge.  Officers are also taught to be confident in their actions and decisions.  If he made notes and remembers things a certain way, I believe that to be true in his mind.  That being said, sometimes our mind is not always perfect.  As you said, he probably wrote 25 tickets that day.  24 of them were probably handled the same.  I'm sorry he missed yours.

I hope before so many of you are ready to hang the entire department, you could remember that 98% of what these officers do on a daily basis is to protect you, your family and your property.

[Rowdy]

quote:Originally posted by tulsa_fan

Rowdy - I am sorry you didn't win your case.  My husband is a Tulsa Officer and I told him about your post from the beginning.  In the end, he was surprised with the information you took to court that you didn't win.  But I have to say I'm losing faith in you as well.  You have come down on the entire department because of one bad experience.  I am fairly sure I know the officer that pulled you over based on your posts, and I don't know him to be crooked.  He probably was using his best memory, but I won't swear he was right.  I wasn't there.  It happens, he's human, not hateful.  Don't let Wilbur get to you.  It seems he is taking this personal, and he shouldn't.  To act like a citizen will never have a bad opinion about an encounter with an officer is wrong.  

I am sure there are bad apples on the department, just as any company any of you work with, but a HUGE majority of these officers put a vest on their chest everyday willing to take a bullet for the same of you who are willing to call them all corrupt.  It's easy to jump on a bandwagon when someone feels they've been wronged, but you should remember that officers are there for you 24/7, they are also human.  They are asked to treat some of the slimiest people in this town with curtesy and respect, sometimes, they fail just a bit.

Again, Rowdy, I was pulling for you, I thought you had a good case and if you presented yourself in court professionally and rationally, I am surprised you didn't fair better.  The officer is well trained in testifying in the courts.  I truly don't believe he was out to get you and purger himself.  He is testifying to the best of his knowledge.  Officers are also taught to be confident in their actions and decisions.  If he made notes and remembers things a certain way, I believe that to be true in his mind.  That being said, sometimes our mind is not always perfect.  As you said, he probably wrote 25 tickets that day.  24 of them were probably handled the same.  I'm sorry he missed yours.

I hope before so many of you are ready to hang the entire department, you could remember that 98% of what these officers do on a daily basis is to protect you, your family and your property.

Thanks for your insightful post and I agree that it is wrong to state what I have been stating in regards to lumping an entire group of people together.  So in that, I apologize for making those types of comments as it was wrong.  I still stand by the fact that the ones I dealt with were clearly inept.  Not because they didn't agree with me, but due to the fact that I presented a clear case and was still punished for something I did not do.

I have a work vehicle and a clean driving record is important to me as it can affect my employment. It was never about crying over spilt milk but rather the fact I work hard at keeping my record clean of any infractions.  It was definitely guilty until proven innocent. Regardless, its all in the past and the points on my record will go away in a year if I dont get pulled over again in the meantime.  That should be quite easy to do since I hardly ever get pulled over for anything. It was a learning experience though. [B)][]

Apologies again to you or anyone who felt offended that are decent, honest individuals in the force or in the court system here in Tulsa or to those who are relatives, friends or spouses of said people. Thanks for setting me straight. []

[patric]

Best to have your day in court, anyway:

http://www.fox23.com/content/solvingproblems/story.aspx?content_id=554f4bf7-4dfe-4c9d-9a10-2eb132d4e1d2

[runderwo]

Slightly OT but does Oklahoma have a radar calibration statute?  This is a pretty good way to get radar speeding tickets thrown out in other states, even if the officer shows up to court.

[Rowdy]

quote:Originally posted by runderwo

Slightly OT but does Oklahoma have a radar calibration statute?  This is a pretty good way to get radar speeding tickets thrown out in other states, even if the officer shows up to court.

Nothing would have mattered the day I showed up to court.

[runderwo]

Well, it would matter - if they want to push a radar ticket, they either present the calibration records, or the ticket is void.  That's the way the statutes work, in states that have them.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by runderwo

Well, it would matter - if they want to push a radar ticket, they either present the calibration records, or the ticket is void.  That's the way the statutes work, in states that have them.

Each police division keeps all of each radar's maintenance and calibration records in case they are needed in court.  Simply showing up and requesting the officer produce the records the day of court won't work.  It would be something the defense would need to subpoena ahead of time.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Each police division keeps all of each radar's maintenance and calibration records in case they are needed in court.  Simply showing up and requesting the officer produce the records the day of court won't work.  It would be something the defense would need to subpoena ahead of time.

Doesnt this compel a defendant to hire an attorney (thus discouraging less affluent citizens from having their day in court)?
Justice shouldnt be a rich man's game...

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

Each police division keeps all of each radar's maintenance and calibration records in case they are needed in court.  Simply showing up and requesting the officer produce the records the day of court won't work.  It would be something the defense would need to subpoena ahead of time.

Doesnt this compel a defendant to hire an attorney (thus discouraging less affluent citizens from having their day in court)?
Justice shouldnt be a rich man's game...

A citizen representing themself could request the records as well, but it really is grasping a straws.  The records are there.  Radars are tested daily, and the newer ones, test themselves every ten minutes, giving an audible signal to the officer verifying the test.  There just isn't that much to go wrong with those things.  I've never had one test wrong.  Remember, the officer doesn't even need radar.  The radar simply confirms the officer's visual speed estimate.  Officers can use stop watches or other means to verify visual estimates.  Radar is simply the most popular.

[patric]

Eagleton's favorite form of revenue again:


TPD may switch to "e-tickets"
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=e05d90a9-29ed-4b61-a739-e9364e1bf4d2

(EAST TULSA, Okla.) May 22 - It's new technology that could revolutionize the Tulsa Police Department, but you could be the one who pays for it.

The Tulsa Police Department is considering switching to electronic ticketing.
With a paper ticket, an officer has to fill in information which takes up a lot of their time.  But the new technology could save them time.

It's another day on the streets for Officer Harold Goad, chasing down speeders, writing ticket after ticket.  "We have to use a separate sheet of paper on each violation.  [It takes] probably seven to eight ten minutes maybe."
That takes up most of his day.  "Anything that speeds up the process would be welcome."

The answer could be the so-called e-ticket technology.  Instead of writing people tickets, the officer simply scans their driver's license.

Tulsa City Councilman John Eagleton says, "The person receiving the ticket will get a print out that tells that person the date, what they're charged with, what their court date is."

Eagleton says the time-saving technology would allow officers to write more tickets and help the city make more money.   "By one analysis, the e-ticket system pays for itself in just a matter of two years."

There's still a long way to go before TPD switches to the technology.  The city council will likely make the decision and it could be weeks or even months before they vote on it.

TPD says an e-ticket system would also increase the number of convictions on traffic offenses.
Right now at least 10% of traffic cases are thrown out, because the officer made a mistake writing the ticket.

[RecycleMichael]

I like the idea of speeding up the process of giving me a ticket. I was speeding in my car for a reason...I am in a hurry.

[tulsa_fan]

RM - Ha, I agree.  

I think this is a good idea, not because it can increase revenue, but why wouldn't we want to improve technology?  Another way to look at it is that when an officer makes a car stop, where a ticket is warranted, they can complete the process more quickly and get back available for calls faster.

[Breadburner]

Nope...They will just write more tickets...This will just increase throughput....More tickets per hour....

[Wilbur]

I'm not convinced it would result in more tickets being written, and if it does, I don't think the numbers would be too significant.  Most officers don't want to write too many tickets to one person at a time and ultimately suspend their driver license on the spot.

What the research does show, is the number of tickets that get dismissed because the court can't read somebody's handwriting almost goes to zero.  Some cities reported dismissing up to 30% of their tickets because of similar problems.  After switching to electronic tickets, those numbers dropped to under 1%.  If Tulsa did that, it would result in more then $2M in fine collections.

On the flip side, this department has talked about electronic tickets for years.  I'll believe it when it finally happens.

quote:  I like the idea of speeding up the process of giving me a ticket. I was speeding in my car for a reason...I am in a hurry.

That's funny!  Thanks for the chuckle!

[Rowdy]

This would solve problems where my ticket had a Dr.-wannabe chicken scratch the location on my ticket.