City to close golf course holes

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaSooner

The City courses ARE run by private companies rather than City staff are they not?

Your going to love this one.......rofl

I just called the city on this and here's what the deal is.

As an example, Broken Arrow and Owasso are ran by private companies. The Tulsa city courses are also contracted out and you'll never guess who it is......it's contracted out to the city of Tulsa.

So instead of the city supplying workers for the two courses, the City makes the courses pay a management fee for their services like a private company would but obviously charging much more.

Absolutely unbelievable. rofl [}:)]

[AMP]

Guess if Bell's had been subsidized by Tulsa Sales Tax revenue they to would be in the same boat today as the little used golf courses.

My point being, it is wiser for a community/state to invest dollars in an existing private owned facility that actually is popular and attracts tourists, than to waste the same money mowing grass at a little used old school golf courses.  

Heartland Park draws over 60,000  to their annual NHRA Nationals twice a year.  Not to mention the 3/8 mile dirt track that hosts the World of Outlaws Sprint car tour, and the road course that is rented most weekends to clubs that draw over 2,000 through the pit gate.  

A small investment of $500,000 per year created a revenue stream from people that live outside the area, tourisim dollars, sales taxes and money spend at local merchants.

Tulsa and Oklahoma seem to have a major problem with this type of concept.  They would rather build a White Elephant old school assembly center type deal downtown with a Hocky Rink size floor that seats 20,000 people than to invest money into a motorsports complex such as Tulsa Raceway Park.  

That would be a big draw if it had the same facility ammediaties as Heartland Park.  Instead we have a small drag strip in one location, a road race course in Hallett 50 mile away and a closed down abandoned 3/8 mile at ?Tulsa Speedway at 66th street north and plowed ground.   And don't forget the existing super nice facility at Expo Square that no longer seems to hosts major motorsports events due to the enemy called sand.

Just seems to me that Kansas gets it, investing money into an existing ongoing sucessful facility seems wiser than spending 1.6 million mowing grass.

By the way Tulsa is host to the IRHA Skull Shine Sooner Nationals coming up later this month May 25-27.   This is a BIG event, with the first return of competition Nitromethane burning Funny Cars and Top Fuel Dragsters in Tulsa in over a decade.  

http://www.tulsaracewaypark.com/

http://ticketswest.rdln.com/Artist.aspx?contentID=9492

[AMP]

I would submit that at even as low as 3.000 that would exceed the attendance for Fair Meadows Horse race events. Anyone have the numbers on those?

I have over 300 newspaper clippings from the 70's when Finnerty handled Tulsa Speedway.  But also remember when Gerald Pritchard owned Tulsa Intentional Raceway and packed in thousands for the AHRA Nationala and the National Challenge races produced by Don Garlitz.  

Tulsa Speedway fell victim to neighbor and noise pollution opponent Gloria Huckabee and her attorney husband as I recall.  Drag strip fell victim to loss of Jim Tice and the AHRA and it could not get certification from the NHRA due to building design problems.  

Who is to say what the crowds would be today had the racing stayed at Expo Square.  I know Lanny Edwards still draws in over 4,000 at State Fair Speedway each Friday night and upwards of 6,000 for the ASCS Sooner Regionals a couple of times a season.  Of course that public owned racetrack has been there operating for fifty years.  Enid is also a public owned facility.  

The weekly events at tracks like Tulsa Speedway #2 the 5/8 mile at Expo, drew in participants from four states.  News of those events was published in numerous papers in several states.  Not sure if the high cost of energy will allow travel again soon.


Tulsa Raceway Park and the land surrounding it seemed a natural for that type of development.  Too bad the natural limestone and flood plane problems plague the owners plans for expansion of that facility.  

Again, most things here could be great, but there seems to always be some major problem for growth, expansion or even existing at the same location due to noise or other issues.  

Sales tax at Expo Square should prove to be interesting for the upcoming year should the Mayor not veto the annexation.
 
Everyone seems so excited when it comes to voting on money to build facilities for public use and entertainment, but once they are in use, there seems to be a continuous war to shut them down and turn them into a vacant dark quiet ghost town.  


Tourist: Hey, nice big racetrack you guys have in Tulsa at Expo Square.  

T-Towner: Oh, you mean the old Tulsa Speedway #2.  

Tourist: Yeah, giant nice covered grand stands, big track and lots of parking, wow you guys even have a motel right by the track with restaurants and clubs near by.  

T-Towner: Yeah, but the horse industry talked the County into replacign the clay with sand for horses and the motorsports kinda ended.

Tourist: Really?  Why don't they make it for both? So both could use it at different times.

T-Towner: Well seems the city spent 1.6 million mowing the grass at a couple of their golf courses over the past 10 years and that 16 million that could of been used for other puropses is gone.

Tourist:  So where are the motorsports events held in Tulsa now?  

T-Towner: They hold them Indoors in that giant Expo Bullding that the motorsports community helped with funding for the enclosures of the sides and ends of the building when the IPE built it.  

Tourist: So you have a nice 5/8 mile outdoor track with state of the art stands and lights and you race Indoors on a small track? I could understand it in the winter, but the it is great outdoors.  You should be racing outdoors where it is warm and has fresh air.

T=Towner:  Guess you need to ask the City and the neighbors as they seem to have taken over Expo Square. It was approved and built by the taxpayers of the county and city, but today it does not seem to be heading in the direction those folks intended when the money was approved.  Maybe the Cityh will have the answer.  

[Conan71]

The city has a rich history of investing in the wrong things, and letting the good ones get away.

[dbacks fan]

When did Tulsa Speedway North close/

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by dbacks fan

When did Tulsa Speedway North close/

It's been closed for a couple of years. Creek County is still open but if you want to see good racing go on over to the Salina Speedway just east of Pryor. There's also a good track south of Muskogee called Outlaw Speedway.

[AVERAGE JOE]

This thread is unbelievable. The golf courses don't generate anywhere near enough revenue to offest the costs, to the tune of needing a $1.6 million subsidy from the City general fund. The problem isn't the management, the green fees or any of that -- it's the number of rounds being WAAAY down. Tulsa is oversaturated with golf courses, plain and simple. So you guys would prefer the City keep bailing out a money loser until several of the privately owned golf courses go under?? Thought you guys were about the free market, private industry is always better. So let the private sector have more of the golf business in Tulsa.

It's like this -- imagine the City runs 4 hot dog stands. Back in the day, they were the only hot dog in town. But several years back, private interests opened a hot dog stand and it did well. Then another one did, then another, then another. Pretty soon, there were too many hot dog stands for the market demand. Got to the point where the City-run hot dog stands lost money. So what would be the right thing to do? Easy, for the City to close some or all of its stands -- get out of the market and let the privately-owned hot dog stands do their thing. Better for the City to back out than for one or more private businesses to fail.

I love golf, but this is the right move for the City. Especially if some of the land at Page Belcher can be sold for development -- put the proceeds in a trust and use the money to benefit golf course operations. That would take the pressure off and keep golf accessible for years to come.

[AMP]

Salina High Banks closed last season.  Facility is for sale.   Outlaw Motor Speedway hangs on by a thread since the owner was indicdeted for theft of State Highway equipment being a Road Grader.  

Thunderbird Speedway at the old Muskogee Fairgrounds was bid on last Winter for $80,000 land and facility.  New investors have stated they will be ready for activity at the veunue late August of "07.

Currently the only racing in Tulsa is Tulsa Raceway Park north on Hwy 169, Tulsa Quarter Midget Association on North Yale and Junior Raceway Park on West 51st Street, Tulsa Xtreme World MX track North Mingo, and Port City Raceway on East Pine.  There are no big Sprint car tracks operating in Tulsa.  

Other than the Indoor events Tulsa Shootout and Chili Bowl at Expo Square in the Winter, all the other tracks are located outside of Tulsa.

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

Salina High Banks closed last season.  Facility is for sale.   Outlaw Motor Speedway hangs on by a thread since the owner was indicdeted for theft of State Highway equipment being a Road Grader.  

Thunderbird Speedway at the old Muskogee Fairgrounds was bid on last Winter for $80,000 land and facility.  New investors have stated they will be ready for activity at the veunue late August of "07.

Currently the only racing in Tulsa is Tulsa Raceway Park north on Hwy 169, Tulsa Quarter Midget Association on North Yale and Junior Raceway Park on West 51st Street, Tulsa Xtreme World MX track North Mingo, and Port City Raceway on East Pine.  There are no big Sprint car tracks operating in Tulsa.  

Other than the Indoor events Tulsa Shootout and Chili Bowl at Expo Square in the Winter, all the other tracks are located outside of Tulsa.

Well if there is a bright side to this, Caney Speedway may reopen this year.

[Wilbur]

Did I read today's (May 4) Tulsa World article correctly?  The majority of telephone calls coming into city counselors about the budget have to do with concerns about swimming pools and golf courses?  Is that really government's responsibility?  My own opinion, but that seems a little silly.

[TulsaSooner]

I haven't read it yet but there is an article in the paper headlined to the effect of Tulsa County is wanting to take over the City courses rather than close them down.  Not sure what that's about.

If that's covered elsewhere around here, I apoligize. [^]

[NellieBly]

I think the county taking over operations of the golf courses is the perfect solution. They do it right at LaFortune. Maybe the county should take over the pools, too. Tulsa City/County Parks and Recreation Department.

[TulsaSooner]

I guess I don't understand.....what would/could the County do that the City hasn't done or can't do?

[RecycleMichael]

The county takes a different approach to course management than the city.

I play at Mohawk because I can get cheap rates and tee times almost any time I want. It is great because during the afternoons in the summer, the course is wide open.

I play Lafortune when I play with better golfers. The green fees are substantially more and you have to wait on almost every hole because of the number of players, but the course is much better maintained.

I see one or two maintenence people when I play Mohawk, I see ten or twelve people when I play LaFortune. The county spends more money, but charges more money to play.

The county also has more convenient locations with courses midtown and south while the city courses are north and west.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by NellieBly

I think the county taking over operations of the golf courses is the perfect solution. They do it right at LaFortune. Maybe the county should take over the pools, too. Tulsa City/County Parks and Recreation Department.

Excelent post....Makes you wonder if that was the goal all along...I find it amazing that people want to take money away from something provides "a quality of life".......