You people hate Obama

[AquaMan]

To add to that, the federal government SHOULD take equity positions in these companies and rollover the profits into new deals. Kind of create a snowball. As it stands we guarantee loans and best case scenario is we just get paid back. The way we do it subsidizes the actual company and all the investors as well. The investors get to keep all the profit, their ownership is not diluted at all, and their risk level is alleviated.

I know that generally I am against government subsidizing private industry, but seeing as spending on new energy is not going to go away, this is my next best solution. I know it is government ownership, but let's face it, most wouldn't exist without the government, just like many research positions. Once the entity becomes profitable, the feds can sell their stake and move on.

I'm truly sorry if you cannot perceive of the differences. I am not his campaign manager nor do I intend to get into tit-for-tat. All that you ask is either available by watching multiple cable outlets or hitting the Google with minimum skill. Just watch some of his old videos and how he uses the truth to aid him in his lies. Have you seen the one where he takes a McCain quote that Obama used during the last campaign, then truncated it to sound like Obama had originally made the statement? The entire meaning of the quote was obliterated. When confronted with it he said it was the truth. That's corporate behavior and acceptable if you can get away with it but do you really want a president who does that? Romney will continue to show himself as the race continues.

As an aside, you seem much younger than me and I hope you are able to learn something from the mistakes we made. From reading the above I think you may be happier under a French or Canadian socialist system.

[AquaMan]

Hmm.

You have some very good points.

You cite several accomplishments that President Obama should be very proud of, but that's not what he's campaigning on. Why is that?

You mention:

Recovery-The unemployment numbers are set to go down again this month, but not because of expansion in the workforce, but rather another reduction in those actively seeking work.  Totals are still rather stagnate.  Big corporations and Wall Street are recording record profits, because the competitive landscape continues to shrink, and banks continue to be rewarded for restricting loans and barring entry into the market for business start-ups.

Energy policy-We're all discombobulated here.  Prices are high at a time of the year when they should be low.  We are exporting fuel because of a slow economy, and export provides a higher profit because it's not subject to blending regulations.  Production on private and state land is up from permitting 5 years ago, but no new steps have been taken to grant permits on federal lands.  Trillions are being pumped into green initiatives that promise return but return no promise. The president takes credit for the building part of a pipeline as if it's a mission accomplished moment.

Both items you mention above could be far greater successes, or actual successes, with very simple action on the part of the president. 

1. Stop the .25% interest program for bank reserves and watch small businesses grow. 

2. Quell the uncertainty looming over the private sector through your calls for tax increases and ambiguous healthcare requirements.

3. Gas prices can be temporarily overcome by lifting the restriction on foreign flagged vessels from transporting fuel from one US port to the other (currently they can deliver only, but cannot deliver from port to port even though they may be running at particle capacity).  That adds significantly to the cost of fuel because oil companies are required to run tankers with empty tanks in may cases.  He could also suspend blending standards as a temporary fix. 

4. As a long term fix, he could open up permitting on millions of acres of federal land.  Even if it is only for a small # of wells, this would make the speculators convulse, and lower futures and delivery prices. Because royalties on public land go back to the government this could be the vehicle to fund all green initiatives without punishing the tax payers any more.

5. Create a massive slush-fund for alternative energy fueled by our current reliance on congenital energy (above).  Two birds---one stone. 

6. Because the cost of energy is the biggest drag on our economy, the president would be able to actually celebrate his accomplishments instead of re-inveting himself under the meme of "fairness," and try to get re-elected on the backs of those disenfranchised by his own lackluster performance.

Thank you. Nothing opens up a conversation like a compliment. However, I couldn't tell you if or why the president is or isn't running on what I mentioned. Perhaps playing his cards and timing?

There are only one or two proposals you made above that aren't loaded with innuendo, political postures and spin. We could in fact achieve some temporary relief with a few tweaks of the delivery system. Not sure of the unintended consequences. Perhaps if the oil industry, the folks you mentioned who in private conversations hate him so much, and local elected officials would actually take a stab at respectful conversation rather than play  games with accusatory press releases and mobilizing funds to defeat him....they might make the light of day.

I am doubtful that you are so worldly as to have come up with these "simple" solutions so readily. Ask those who are feeding you these solutions to bring them to Romney, Obama, or Congress and let them set up study groups to see if they are even feasible. Otherwise its just parties outside this realm with agendas that are not apparent using an adept forum user for their own purposes.

[Conan71]

I agree with that about 1000%.  Second part - you just dated yourself - the arch partisan rhetoric was exactly like it is today.  Nothing much has changed in 40 years, except for the possible inclusion of a few more expletives on TV.  It has always been a blood sport.  Especially those times when the military has been called out to mow down civilians.

Gerald Ford was demonized just as much as anyone today for being "clumsy".  And the fact he pardoned Nixon.  But not electing him President was one of the bigger bonehead moves this country has made - right up there with electing Baby Bush once, and electing Nixon twice.

Partisanship paralysis is the reason all these retiring legislators are citing for wanting to get out.

Difference was, aside from the rhetoric 40 years ago, there was room for compromise and Congress and the Executive Branch actually managed to accomplish quite a bit without a bunch of pile bills packed with all sorts of unrelated funding and additional laws in order to get anything passed.

Speaker O'Neill and President Reagan had different political ideologies, and publicly had bitter words for each other at times.  Through all that, there was an underlying respect the two had for each other and the office each held.  They also were able to work together to help move the country forward from difficult social and economic times.

Politicians now display open hostility toward each other because they think that's what their constituents want.  Their constituents pick this up from the entertainers on talk radio and cable, as well as the blogosphere.

Like it or not, it's free speech at work.  We are just as free to openly despise someone as we are to love them.  At some point, we can only hope those in power will wake up and realize they have allowed bitter partisanship to completely wreck this country and bring it to a standstill.  

[Gaspar]

Thank you. Nothing opens up a conversation like a compliment. However, I couldn't tell you if or why the president is or isn't running on what I mentioned. Perhaps playing his cards and timing?

There are only one or two proposals you made above that aren't loaded with innuendo, political postures and spin. We could in fact achieve some temporary relief with a few tweaks of the delivery system. Not sure of the unintended consequences. Perhaps if the oil industry, the folks you mentioned who in private conversations hate him so much, and local elected officials would actually take a stab at respectful conversation rather than play  games with accusatory press releases and mobilizing funds to defeat him....they might make the light of day.

I am doubtful that you are so worldly as to have come up with these "simple" solutions so readily. Ask those who are feeding you these solutions to bring them to Romney, Obama, or Congress and let them set up study groups to see if they are even feasible. Otherwise its just parties outside this realm with agendas that are not apparent using an adept forum user for their own purposes.

We are all political hacks and armchair quarterbacks.  I'm sure there are reasons both political, and realistic that the simple and obvious solutions of the day have not been considered, however, at the end of the day, we go to bed knowing that solutions do exist.  

Rather than a dialog on any solutions, we are spoon fed excuses, blame, and algae.  That is what hurts us.  That is what makes us shake our heads and say how can you eat this dog food and recommend it to others?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Partisanship paralysis is the reason all these retiring legislators are citing for wanting to get out.

Difference was, aside from the rhetoric 40 years ago, there was room for compromise and Congress and the Executive Branch actually managed to accomplish quite a bit without a bunch of pile bills packed with all sorts of unrelated funding and additional laws in order to get anything passed.

Speaker O'Neill and President Reagan had different political ideologies, and publicly had bitter words for each other at times.  Through all that, there was an underlying respect the two had for each other and the office each held.  They also were able to work together to help move the country forward from difficult social and economic times.

Politicians now display open hostility toward each other because they think that's what their constituents want.  Their constituents pick this up from the entertainers on talk radio and cable, as well as the blogosphere.

Like it or not, it's free speech at work.  We are just as free to openly despise someone as we are to love them.  At some point, we can only hope those in power will wake up and realize they have allowed bitter partisanship to completely wreck this country and bring it to a standstill.  

There was a lot of that driven by the fact that the Democrats controlled Congress for many decades, while the Presidency was held by a Republican through much of it.  That seemed to work pretty well for the most part.  I know, Tip held a majority for much of Reagan, but he also was a rubber stamp to Reagan throughout.  Whether it was fear of being unelected, or the fact he could see the monetary benefit that accrued to him and his buddies is the big question.  I think the money was the biggest motivator.

[Gaspar]

There was a lot of that driven by the fact that the Democrats controlled Congress for many decades, while the Presidency was held by a Republican through much of it.  That seemed to work pretty well for the most part.  I know, Tip held a majority for much of Reagan, but he also was a rubber stamp to Reagan throughout.  Whether it was fear of being unelected, or the fact he could see the monetary benefit that accrued to him and his buddies is the big question.  I think the money was the biggest motivator.

He was by no means a rubber stamp, it was just that both parties were closer together then and Reagan had a way of making friends with his enemies.  He and Tip could fight like cats and dogs but have a drink and a meal at the end of the day.

Today, the parties have grown apart with each seeking contrarian philosophies just for the sake of being contrary. 

[Conan71]

There was a lot of that driven by the fact that the Democrats controlled Congress for many decades, while the Presidency was held by a Republican through much of it.  That seemed to work pretty well for the most part.  I know, Tip held a majority for much of Reagan, but he also was a rubber stamp to Reagan throughout.  Whether it was fear of being unelected, or the fact he could see the monetary benefit that accrued to him and his buddies is the big question.  I think the money was the biggest motivator.

To the contrary, I think the country was much more moderate.  When Limpbag became popular in the early 1990's, he started an industry for arch-conservative thought.  Then, of course, someone figured out there was room for very left leaning commentators like Chris Matthews.  Couple that with the tit-for-tat that Whitewater was for Iran-Contra and Watergate.  The blogosphere also allowed a whole new crop of arch liberal and arch conservative thought to have more of a forum.  What's unfortunate is extreme conservative and extreme liberal viewpoints on the tube, radio, and inter webs get the most airplay because it sells advertising more than "boring" moderate thought.  I have not seen recent polls, but I believe around 60% percent of us identify ourselves as moderate or moderate leaning, while about 20% each consider themselves to be very liberal or very conservative.

Back to Limpbag, he spent the entirety of the Clinton administration complaining about what a tax and spend "liberal" Clinton was.  Turns out, history is showing us the Clinton years were actually pretty much the opposite.  How much of that was the result of a GOP Congress after 1994 and how much was Clinton is still rife for debate.  Gingrich and Hastert actually did manage to accomplish quite a bit in concert with Clinton.

Today, the stated purpose of the GOP in Congress is to ensure Obama is a one term president and to attempt to block any and every agenda item he proposes.  I don't recall that ever being a stated purpose in the past.

[erfalf]

I'm truly sorry if you cannot perceive of the differences. I am not his campaign manager nor do I intend to get into tit-for-tat. All that you ask is either available by watching multiple cable outlets or hitting the Google with minimum skill. Just watch some of his old videos and how he uses the truth to aid him in his lies. Have you seen the one where he takes a McCain quote that Obama used during the last campaign, then truncated it to sound like Obama had originally made the statement? The entire meaning of the quote was obliterated. When confronted with it he said it was the truth. That's corporate behavior and acceptable if you can get away with it but do you really want a president who does that? Romney will continue to show himself as the race continues.

The only thing I was trying to point out is the similarities between the two candidates. Neither of which I care for in the least, but it is what it is. I'm not going to say "well Obama did this...Romney did that" to justify anything they do, which is what everyone seems to want to do, to justify their own bad behavior. The comments you were making about Obama and Romney just seemed so editorial.

Let's take the fact that everyone thinks Obama is brilliant. By what standards do people come to this conclusion? He went to Columbia & Harvard & was editor of law review. Taught constitutional law of U of C. Romney went to BYU (morman) and Harvard Business. Yet he is not held in the same esteem. Heck Bush went to Yale and HBS and we all know how he is portrayed.

Obama is an eloquent speaker. Tell me people are not serious when they say that because he reads off a teleprompter exceptionally well that this signifies brilliance. I don't know how many 4-H'ers (no disrespect) in high school that could give a fantastic speech, but were nowhere near what I would call brilliant.

Look I'm not saying he's stupid, you can't be and get to where he is at. I'm just saying he isn't particularly smarter than any other President. What would lead me to that conclusion?

You, my friend, like many others, have a double standard and are unwilling to admit it. I do to. Obama's your guy, I get it.  Course I don't agree with any of them so it makes it a tad easier to be impartial in this particular debate. But I've got my favorites (issues) and I admit it is sometimes difficult to be impartial when you feel strongly about something.

As an aside, you seem much younger than me and I hope you are able to learn something from the mistakes we made. From reading the above I think you may be happier under a French or Canadian socialist system.

What, I make one comment in favor of a socialist type program and I get this. All I was saying is that I know that the US government will NEVER stop spending money on this stuff...SO...in the meantime, why should we be subsidizing the investors when all we really want is the product. They are going to spend the money anyway, why not make it equity instead of a debt guarantee. The government has tons of researchers looking into things that may not be profitable (NASA anyone) and no one considers that to be a crazy idea. heck I think the government even collected on patents and such from said NASA programs inventions. Why not for energy as well. As it stands, there are only 2 outcomes for the government in these deals; lose or draw.

[nathanm]

I agree that lobbyists are not inherently bad or even that they espouse bad ideas.

It's is the financing of the politicians that is far more troublesome. Money (financiers) speaks louder than words (lobbyists).

The lobbyists bring their checkbooks. But only because the Congresspeople are their good buddies.  

There was a great article in The Atlantic (I think) recently about lobbyist culture.

Also, don't mistake my cynical view for me thinking that Republicans and Democrats are the same or think that it means that I think participation is pointless. IMO, while the Republicans fairly clearly would like to drive the bus directly over the cliff (witness the manufactured debt ceiling debacle last year), it seems equally clear to me that the Democrats are at least willing to stop for beer first. My hope is that the beer stop gives us an opportunity to fire the existing team of drivers and hire all new help that doesn't think that the best way forward is over the cliff. It may be the shortest way down, but it's also the most painful.

Gaspar, as I've noted before, you can expect the labor participation rate to continue to fall for at least another 20 years. The wave of retirees has begun and will not be stopping any time soon. It's time to get over that and move on.

[Teatownclown]

The fact remains that for centuries our National leaders rose above this crappola. Today, the lack of respect from leaders and their lack of dignity dealing with others continues purposely detouring the management of our business. They all can't sleep well at night knowing that to do the right thing would cost them their jobs. It's called the Poppy Bush syndrome or the "read my lips" syndrome. Cut the bs. It's the new counterculture war that is the root of the problem. Their mantra is Grover Nordquist's saying about shrinking government. Try shrinking corporate America....or for that matter, shrink the average American household further. There's a touch of false equivalency for you and the others here who bring up such ancient history meanderings that no longer apply nor need be revisited! This is now...the deficit situation is getting more serious as inflation and interest rates begin to gradually rise. Putting politics against the Nation's best interests has turned burly and dangerous.

Be here now. Time to raise revenues before it gets seriously bad. Come December after the elections, you will witness the center coming down with a calibrated pre Bush Tax Dodge supported by both sides of the aisle. It's their only chance before they change make-up and clown suits. Realists and Lame Duckies to the rescue! And my guess: it will be fair.

The country will be forced to watch more theatrics from the teabagger/righties for 2 more years at least only this time around they'll pick up on the Santorum mess talking points. They'd just love to find an Executive error or scandal, but they'll settle for governing your private life or what's left of it. Their main-line talking points again will be questions of our President's patriotism and authenticity. They'll still be calling him names in 5 years when he leaves office. Not much else for those bozo's to whine about.

[nathanm]

The fact remains that for centuries our National leaders rose above this crappola.

Not really. There's a reason why we have all the civil service rules and "weird" regulations on procurement processes, campaign finance laws, and all the rest. They weren't included in the box with the Republic. It took years and years of nearly limitless graft and corruption to get the first regulations attempting to get a handle on it. As people found a way around the rules, the rules were updated. Sometime in the 80s, we forgot. We called what we had good enough and not too long after even began questioning the reason for the arcane rules and regulations and slowly began rolling them back all across government. That has led us to where we are today, with graft culture again fully entrenched.

No, it never really went away, but it was reduced at least to a dull roar for a while.

[AquaMan]

Erfalf, I never meant to imply that i thought Obama brilliant. Clinton was brilliant. Big deal. What I admire is his process of problem solving and his calm demeanor. He is a good example as a human being and incredible that he didn't come from elite environs like most politicians at his level. I like that. I like his sense of humor and his ability to be serious if required. Like Clinton said, "I'd like to think I would have made the same decision" when referring to the Osama raid. I'm not sure what you mean by a double standard. But by my age I've had everything else so it doesn't surprise me.

I have really enjoyed this thread. Some interesting insights. I'm pretty much done though.

[AquaMan]

We are all political hacks and armchair quarterbacks.  I'm sure there are reasons both political, and realistic that the simple and obvious solutions of the day have not been considered, however, at the end of the day, we go to bed knowing that solutions do exist.  

Rather than a dialog on any solutions, we are spoon fed excuses, blame, and algae.  That is what hurts us.  That is what makes us shake our heads and say how can you eat this dog food and recommend it to others?

That is some good stuff there (channeling my inner Johnny Carson).

[nathanm]

1. Stop the .25% interest program for bank reserves and watch small businesses grow. 

The President does not control the Federal Reserve, thankfully. Even if he did, this is a boneheaded idea. Right now, that's the only tool short of buying securities that the Fed has in its arsenal given where interest rates are. It makes it pretty much impossible to have real deflation which is still something of a danger, especially with the turmoil in Europe.

Deflation will hurt small business more than a quarter point on bank reserves.

4. As a long term fix, he could open up permitting on millions of acres of federal land.  Even if it is only for a small # of wells, this would make the speculators convulse, and lower futures and delivery prices. Because royalties on public land go back to the government this could be the vehicle to fund all green initiatives without punishing the tax payers any more.

Tell you what, you get the law changed so that the oil companies actually have to pay substantial royalties (the federal government's royalty checks are worse than mine!) and we'll see about that one.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The fact remains that for centuries our National leaders rose above this crappola. Today, the lack of respect from leaders and their lack of dignity dealing with others continues purposely detouring the management of our business.

...Putting politics against the Nation's best interests has turned burly and dangerous.

Wide selection of political cartoons going back almost 200 years.   Politics has always been dirty.

http://www.google.com/search?q=1800%27s+political+cartoons&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=MJw&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&prmd=imvns&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=d_1xT-3OK6apsQLO7oX9BQ&ved=0CC0QsAQ&biw=1255&bih=936