TULSA's C Streeters: THE GATHERING!?

[Conan71]

I think a baloon broke in his digestive tract coming back from Mexico.

It's time, FOTD:

[FOTD]

I'm surprised, FOTD. You've lived here most or all of your life, and yet you seem clueless about the variations and distinctions and subcultures that exist within Christianity in Tulsa.

As I wrote earlier, some new churches rent space for weekly worship services, and rent an office somewhere else -- a place for the pastor to study and meet with parishoners, a place to receive mail, a place to keep the church's materials and equipment (e.g. hymnbooks, overhead projector, electronic keyboard, sound equipment) when they aren't in use. In this case, The Gathering holds their worship services at the Central Center in Centennial Park and has an office in Brookside. This is not a difficult concept.

This is sort of like the Tulsa Run having an office that serves the organization throughout the year, but -- now this is tricky of them -- they don't actually hold the Tulsa Run in the office. They pay to use the streets for one day of the year. Since they don't need all those streets all year long, they have a small office for administrative use the rest of the year.

And as for "exerting" one's beliefs on others, why else do you bother posting here?

{EDIT}

And FOTD has never "exerted" religious belief's on others. Quite the opposite.

{EDIT}

The Gathering will eventually mix politics and religion and try to exert their faith onto citizens. Just an educated guess.

Inflammatory posts and attempts to skirt the word censor are not welcome.

[TheArtist]

   Had someone once tell me that you can generally divide people into these 2 types...

One group, more or less, processes information first through the heart, then into the brain. They "get things" through feeling it first. They learn to understand and listen to the world, its patterns and divine its truths through emotions and feelings first. Once they feel that something is right or wrong, they then think and believe that its so.

The other group tends, more or less, to process information first through the head, contemplating and thinking about it, then into the heart. They have to understand it first, then they feel it.

Both are legitimate approaches, both can be done poorly or well. All of us have a bit of both but often we lean more towards one way of processing the world or the other. (its wise to know this when dating or meeting people, cause if your in a relationship in which the other person is quite the opposite from you in this respect, your likely to have difficulties communicating and even harshly clash)  Both of these approaches have their limitations and can only go so far in figuring things out, finding truths, etc.  Its then that the other approach can lend a hand in putting things back on track or into better focus. They can clash, but also compliment.  They both have an important place in the world.

Perhaps I am wrong, but it seems to me that our society, and our churches, have trended more towards the "emotional processing" end of things, and tending to push those who arent that way, out and off to the margins. They no longer fit in and in some cases are even told they are wrong for not "shouting out the glory like a trumpet". Church can be more about getting a feel good rush, an emotional high, and then the message. But in some cases, the language has become so emotionally oriented that its become basically meaningless. Its become the emotional processing equivalent of "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin". You can only reason and use logic on the limited info we currently have, so far before it goes off into dingbat land. Same thing with this emotional stuff. Some of the songs they sing now strike me as just having lost any real meaning other than just an emotional sugar rush. "God is a wonderful God, God is an Awsome, Glorious, Magnificent, Mega Super Duper, Most Ginormous...cue people frothing at the mouth, eyes rolling back in their heads as they look skyward, waving their hands in the air more and more frantically as each descriptor becomes more incredibilous. And it just goes on and on with more cutsey, cliche "key words" and phrases thrown in that often dont even make any logical sense.   I am sure this is attractive to quite a number of young folk in particular. But I cant help but wonder where its really going to get them long term?


I also don't think many are reaching out to "unbelievers" like they could. Often the language and thinking that is used, only makes sense to those who are already steeped in Christian theology.

I get a kick out of the guy with the big van that on the side says "Jesus is Lord!". He says he is trying to reach out to those who dont know "The Lord". But those who dont know, arent going to get what the heck that means lol. Why is this guy a Lord? Did he move up from being a Duke? Whats so big about being a Lord when you can be a King? Is this guy kind of like a landlord? Whats the big deal with that lol?

"Siddhartha is Sadhu!" What kind of emotional impact would that have on you if you saw that on a sign and heard some man shouting it with a loudhorn? Not much I suspect. Certainly not the kind of impact the guy with the "Jesus is Lord!" sign thinks he is illiciting. Also, look at that video above. It too supposes that a person is basically someone steeped in Christian culture,,, guilt about sex, sex is dirty, etc. It supposes, from their perspective that the feeling must be an innate one that everyone shares, not one that they in particular learned. Thus it only resonates with them, speakes to them, not to those they say they say they are trying to reach out to. Some Christians are so steeped in their religion, their geographic and historic perspective... so used to only seeing things from their and their friends/family perspective, that they cant see that what seems so natural to them, feels so real to them, may not register at all with other people.  There is a whole huge world out there that no more gets or registers anything about The Cross, any more than some of us would think much about seeing a little Buddha figurine, a peace sign, an eagle. Its just another symbol or trinket in the background as we rush by.  I was raised in some of both, so have an idea of how both think and feel. 


Trying to communicate using only an unfamiliar emotional language, to those who arent themselves versed in it or receptive to it, will limit your target audience and results, to the "choir".

[AngieB]

Are we supposed to read all that, Artist? You'd never make it on Twitter... 

[sgrizzle]

William never does anything small. Just compare the sizes of Mayfest paintings.

[FOTD]

The chaining of Churchianity. This gives them their avenues to spread their politics. Hopefully, the IRS is keeping a warranted eye out.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090901_18_A1_CraigG129466

[Red Arrow]

Artist,
Probably true of more than just Christians.

Mini,
He'd just have to string a few messages. I think that would work, I don't use Twitter.

[Conan71]

And FOTD has never "exerted" religious belief's on others. Quite the opposite.

Agnosticism and athiesm are religious beliefs.  Not sure which you lean more toward, but we get your beliefs crammed down our throats with almost every message you post.

[rwarn17588]

Then "they" are maybe franchising?

What about evangelical Christianity do you not understand? Based on their very basic description, anyone can deduce that they tend to evangelize. This isn't rocket science.

[cannon_fodder]

ZOMG!!!  wait, stop.  Let me get this straight.

There is a new Christian Church in Tulsa.  This Church espouses views, both religious and political.  They intend to spread their religious views in an attempt to convert people and convince them that their version of God is better than the other versions of God(s).  Then, having converted them from their heathen ways, they might influence their political thinking and ultimately attempt to basically creating a theocracy?

Holy crap.  If this kind of activity isn't stopped we'll have monuments to their religion on our capital grounds and laws specifically catering to their beliefs with no real merit.  Hell, a man won't even be able to buy a beer on their God's high holy days if they have their way.  Then, now this is getting out there, they'll work on getting an exhibit in the zoo telling people that snakes are mean and can talk, that women have periods because God is pissed they ate an apple, that you can fit all life onto a relatively small boat and have it survive for a couple months, that we are all the product of one amazing incestuous family over 5,000 years and that any evidence, including common sense, that is to the contrary is really just their God testing our loyalty (but he isn't insecure). 



What makes this "the Gathering" Church any different than most others in Tulsa?  By their nature evangelical Churches tell everyone else they are wrong, threaten them with Hell if they don't believe in their version of God, and attempt to influence laws and policies to force people to follow their guidelines.  Clearly I'm with you in not mixing religion and politics, but why single out this Church?

[TURobY]

Agnosticism and athiesm are religious beliefs.

Not really; I'd say that they are more like the freedom from religious beliefs (but I don't want to get into this argument on this thread, as it would be prudent to continue to focus on FOTD's original point). Regardless, I'm an athiest, quite liberal, and mildly opposed to many religious institutions, so one would think that maybe I could understand where FOTD was going with this. But I can't.

At this point, it appears that FOTD read too much into a phrase. When called out on it, he refused to admit the blunder and avoided the questions posed back to him while simultaneously attempting to change the subject (from one church's slogan to churches who use satellite programs).

[DolfanBob]

As I understand it. Church is only one part of your relationship with God.
Wherever you are spiritually filled and uplifted is entirely up to you.

I agree, Church and State should be separate. But some like Pat Robertson on the national stage, and Carlton Pearson on the local stage both found out.
I can only hope that our current President has separated himself from the teachings he was subjected to in Chicago.
But I think we have far more problems to worry about than his spiritual beliefs.

As his book says. His Son will not return until every Man, Woman and Child has had the opportunity to hear and know his word.
It does not say in which way or form you will hear it. Just that you will have the opportunity to chose or denounce him.

Its about you and your relationship with him.
Not the Gathering or the President.
Just You.

[dbacks fan]

The chaining of Churchianity. This gives them their avenues to spread their politics. Hopefully, the IRS is keeping a warranted eye out.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20090901_18_A1_CraigG129466

wow, churches with multiple locations using the web and satelite technology to reach people in other areas so that it's more convinient for them to attend instead of building a mega church building. Casual dress for church, nothing new here either. Preaching their view on where you should be politically? Yawn, nothing new.

The purpose of the evangelical church is to evangilize to the congregation, and then have them go out and do the same in the community to get more people to attend their particular church because the one they have been going to isn't teaching it the right way. As a guess for every one church caught in a financial scandal, three more pop up in it's place.

[cannon_fodder]

Agnosticism and athiesm are religious beliefs

Religion Defined:

# concerned with sacred matters or religion or the church; "religious texts"; "a member of a religious order"; "lords temporal and spiritual ...

# having or showing belief in and reverence for a deity; "a religious man"; "religious attitude"

# a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny; "he lost his faith but not his morality"

# an institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him"

# A religion is an organized approach to human spirituality which usually encompasses a set of narratives, symbols, beliefs and practices.
- - -

By definition,  agnosticism or atheism would be the absence of religion, akin to secularism.  It is a belief, but not a religious belief.  For purposes of governmental classification it is considered a religious belief - but governmental categories doesn't make it so.  The category generally serves to count people with no religious beliefs.  

[Conan71]

CF- that could turn into a very, very long philosophical debate, as many of the definitions of religion are simply accepted opinions, though the points you posted are well-taken.  Athiesm could be defined as a religion of denying there is a God or higher power. 

Much longer post coming on, but I digress and will resist further threadjack.