Grand Lake plane crash

[NellieBly]

Apparently the drunk guy piloting the plane is a Pryor used car salesman who is currently being sued for millions from former customers for his shady dealings. The people in the crash that died were hired to help him "flip" houses (his latest venture). What a horrible tragedy. Apparenly one of the dead is only 15-years old.

[Breadburner]

No Pilots license either.....

[AMP]

Sounds like his car lot is yet another victim of the "Best Economy in 50 Years"  With the couple of million dollar loan from the Claremore Bank, one would think in this "Best Economy in 50 Years" the car lot owner would be opening a few more additional car lots.  

Wonder if the banker in Claremore has an extra few million to loan?  

Just returned from a road trip up to Hominy and there are several casualities from the "Best Economy in 50 Years" along highway 20 from Skiatook to Hominy. Including a car dealership, Propane dealer, Convienence store and others.  Along with a several more for lease spaces in downtown Skaitook.  

If those communities could get just 1% of the traffic jam at 71st and Memorial, they may see some growth for 2008.  Perhaps they need a million or so dollar loan from the Claremore banker.

[tulsa1603]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

Sounds like his car lot is yet another victim of the "Best Economy in 50 Years"  With the couple of million dollar loan from the Claremore Bank, one would think in this "Best Economy in 50 Years" the car lot owner would be opening a few more additional car lots.  

Wonder if the banker in Claremore has an extra few million to loan?  

Just returned from a road trip up to Hominy and there are several casualities from the "Best Economy in 50 Years" along highway 20 from Skiatook to Hominy. Including a car dealership, Propane dealer, Convienence store and others.  Along with a several more for lease spaces in downtown Skaitook.  

If those communities could get just 1% of the traffic jam at 71st and Memorial, they may see some growth for 2008.  Perhaps they need a million or so dollar loan from the Claremore banker.

The impression I get is that the guy is a flake who doesn't know how to run a business (or operate a plane for that matter)...  The economy can't be blamed for every business that goes under, some are just ill-conceived.  And as far as those businesses on highway 20, I assume you're talking about the two former dealerships at the intersection of 75 and 20, they were two car dealerships in the absolute middle of nowhere....is it any wonder that they didn't make it??

[AMP]

When gasoline sold for less than a dollar a gallon, a trip up hwy 75 to hwy 20 was not much of jaunt.  When gasoline hit $3.00 per gallon a trip that distance is more like an investment.  

I suspect that is the main reason Tulsa Speedway at 66th street north and highway 75 closed as people were unable to afford to budget in the cost of the energy to get there and back, along with the ticket price for the events there.  

Took gasoline 100 years to go from what ever it sold for when first presented up to 99 cents per gallon.  But less than four years after hitting 99 cents to exceed $3.00 per gallon in the United States.

When I was 14 and riding my motorcycle gasoline sold for 15 cents per gallon at the small gas station that sat caty corner on the North East corner at the intersection of 61st and Memorial.   You could also buy a soda pop for 3 cents if you drank it there, or a nickle if you took the glass bottle with you.  Of course you got the 2cent deposit back when you returned the bottle.  That was only 40 years ago.

Not only did you get a gas there for 15 cents per gallon, they made enough profit to hire and pay several attendants that also checked and topped off your oil, checked your fluids, inspected your battery cables and connections and cleaned them if needed, checked your belts, inspected and if needed inflated your tires, cleaned your windshield and mirrors and said Thank You when you paid them.  

Does the high cost of gasoline with far less service fall under the definition of Inflation?

[rwarn17588]

<AMP wrote:

When I was 14 and riding my motorcycle gasoline sold for 15 cents per gallon at the small gas station that sat caty corner on the North East corner at the intersection of 61st and Memorial. You could also buy a soda pop for 3 cents if you drank it there, or a nickle if you took the glass bottle with you. Of course you got the 2cent deposit back when you returned the bottle. That was only 40 years ago.

<end clip>

And AMP walked to school each day barefoot, through two feet of snow, uphill, both ways. And he LIKED IT.

[}:)]

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

Sounds like his car lot is yet another victim of the "Best Economy in 50 Years"  With the couple of million dollar loan from the Claremore Bank, one would think in this "Best Economy in 50 Years" the car lot owner would be opening a few more additional car lots.  

Wonder if the banker in Claremore has an extra few million to loan?  

Just returned from a road trip up to Hominy and there are several casualities from the "Best Economy in 50 Years" along highway 20 from Skiatook to Hominy. Including a car dealership, Propane dealer, Convienence store and others.  Along with a several more for lease spaces in downtown Skaitook.  

If those communities could get just 1% of the traffic jam at 71st and Memorial, they may see some growth for 2008.  Perhaps they need a million or so dollar loan from the Claremore banker.

AMP- You obviously don't understand the principle of lending to car dealers.  My understanding is this Caldwell character was out of trust on his floorplan.  

Car dealers have what is called a "floor plan", for that matter so do other big ticket retailers.  That is a revolving line of credit on which you can buy and sell cars.  Most floor plans are set up with a flat daily interest rate per unit, though I believe there is also one that may vary depending on the amount the bank has financed on each unit.  When the dealer sells a car, they are supposed to re-pay the net amount borrowed for that unit in the first place.

The dealer is supposed to report sold cars to the bank as soon as possible and re-pay the principal.  Banks generally are provided with VIN numbers on each vehicle on the floor plan as they are the collateral for the revolving line of credit.  Usually every couple of weeks to once a month the banker will audit the lot and also account for any cars which are off-site for service or repairs or out as "demos".

If a dealer is missing cars he cannot account for, that is called being "out of trust".  Same thing happened to Tink Wilkerson in his last incarnation out on New Sapulpa Road.  He was selling the cars and instead of paying the bank back, used the funds to pay rent, payroll, and personal lifestyle expenses.

As far as your observations of a crappy economy, I can't help but guess that the rest of your perspective on life is equally crappy.  

Somehow, I've managed to do okay through every "recession" (and no I wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth) including the recession of 1990/1991 when I worked at one of the old car dealers (see the thread on warranty scams) off Hwy 75 and Hwy 20.  The overhead was actually quite low at that location and it's demise had nothing to do with profitability.  There were some issues FOMOCO had with the partners in the business and the way they ran it and the franchise was yanked.  They had the benefit of many Phillips employees who would stop off heading to Tulsa to car shop.  One of the partners was tight with the Utica Square crowd and sold a lot of Explorers and program Lincolns to people in Tulsa.

It's my opinion that one's own personal economy will suck for those who believe the overall ecomomy does.  For those who take a more optimisitic approach and are willing to make changes, it may falter from time-to-time, but overall those people will always prosper.

I also agree with Tulsa1603 that poor planning and poor management contribute to a lot of small business failures.  It has nothing to do with the big picture economy when you start a business which doesn't have anything to offer that appeals to a sustainable customer base, or it's so far off the beaten path no one can or will get to it.

[Conan71]

The pilot is obviously thick-headed.  He got an open container charge on Oct. 12th and had it dismissed a little over a week later.

Somehow, I doubt he was completely sober when he got the last charge.

Sorry folks, I just can't conjure up pity for drunk drivers or pilots.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by AMP


Took gasoline 100 years to go from what ever it sold for when first presented up to 99 cents per gallon.  But less than four years after hitting 99 cents to exceed $3.00 per gallon in the United States.

When I was 14 and riding my motorcycle gasoline sold for 15 cents per gallon at the small gas station that sat caty corner on the North East corner at the intersection of 61st and Memorial.   You could also buy a soda pop for 3 cents if you drank it there, or a nickle if you took the glass bottle with you.  Of course you got the 2cent deposit back when you returned the bottle.  That was only 40 years ago.

Gas was 15 cents a gallon 40 years ago?

Funny, I paid about $1.20 a gallon when I was in high school 20 years ago. In going from 15 Cents to $1.20, gas doubled in price three times in 20 years. Gas is now at $2.09, less than double the price it was 20 years ago. Even figured against the peak price at $3.00 the price increase was much less in the last 20 years than in the former. Sounds like inflation was out of control of 20-40 years ago (which it was).

[AMP]

I understand floor plans and finance, as I was the Sales Manager for a new vehicle dealership for 12 years in Tulsa.  

Many of the Organ, Piano and Motorcycle dealers would remove the items from their crates and sell them.  Then they replaced the weight in the box with bricks.  When the bank auditor arrived monthly to take inventory they would count the numbers on the crates and never looked inside. That was one of the oldest tricks in the book.  

Other stories to cover missing inventory included the vehicles were on display in a Credit Union or Bank Lobby, or on display at an event or other business.  Or they were in the shop for repair or out on a demo.   Best the dealer could buy was a 30-day extension on the payoff.    

Prior to the invention of loans on low price vehicles, most customers paid cash.  We did not have a credit department or process loans and loan applications.  Businessmen in suits paid us a visit and set up the dealership with a computer, loan applications and credit.  Other terms such as "Up-Side Down", Juice, and "Won't outrun the Note" came into being following the introduction of credit terms for motor vehicle sales.

When I was in grade school I rode my bicycle to and from school on nice days and got a ride when the weather was bad.  Later I either rode the bus or rode my motorcycle the first two years of Jr. High School. My dad passed away when I was 5 years old and following my mom's death when I was 14 I attended and lived at a private preparatory boarding school, and I drove either my motorcycles or my jeep when I was off campus on weekends.  Following gaduation from High School I attended the University of Tulsa.

Regarding the price of gasoline, when it was 15 cents per gallon the owners of many gas stations in Tulsa earned a comfortable income.  Most drove fairly new vehicles and many had a Race Car and other racing vehicles their kids raced around their service garages. One was at 36th and Harvard and those guys always had lots of fun.  There were mini bikes with rope start engines and small Hondas there after school on most good weather days.    The gas station owners could afford to pay their employees a decent wage, and most had several employees at most filling stations as they were called.    

The station attendants would greet you whenever you drove on the service line at the gasoline station.  You never left the comfort of your vehicle.  They pumped gas into your vehicle, inspected your fluids and topped them off when required, many times they did not charge for the fluids used.  They also inspected your tires and the inflation levels, and adjusted them when required.  They cleaned your windshield, rear view outside mirrors and said Thank You when you paid them outside on the drive.  

Today, at most stations your are required to pay in advance, pump your own gasoline, many customers pay at the pump using a high interest credit card, there is little or no service performed and the price of the fuel is much higher than when there were attendants.   Oil sold at the gas stations is much higher than what the price is at most other stores.  

Where are the owners of the Corporate owned and operated super stations today?   Most likely living off shore on some Island.  Most do not provide service bays, nor do they have race cars or the family of the owner around.  Just one underpaid typically unhappy employee standing behind the counter.  

Compare what you could purchase for one hour worth of minimum wage after taxes then to now.  Soda pop is a good example.  When I was 14 I worked for our family owned business and earned $1.25 per hour, which was minimum wage then.  I took home $40 a week for 40 hours, or $1 per hour.    I could buy 30 bottles of cold Coca Cola or Pepsi at he convenience store for that dollar.   Today you only buy 3 of the same bottles of soda pop product with an hour's worth of minimum wage work.  

When I bought the soda pop when I was 14 years old sales tax in Tulsa was only 2%.  If you made a purchase of less than 50 cents there was no sales tax collected.  Bubble gum was 3 for a penny so by making two purchases of less than 50 cents you saved enough money to buy 3 pieces of bubble gum.  Today the tax is almost 10% and it starts on the first dime.  

When I was growing up a license tag for a motorcycle rather it was a Honda 50 or a Harley Davidson 1,200 cost $8.50.  New or used all were the same price, and you bought them in December once per year.  Simple deal and you always knew how much money you needed to buy your tag.  Today it is like a roulette wheel at Vegas.  Never know how much until they total it up on their computer.  And it is much higher than $8.50.  

You were not required by law to purchase or have overpriced Liability Insurance, there were no Safety Inspections, you were not required by law to wear a helmet.   All you needed was a left-hand mirror, and eye protection, which cost 49 cents for a pair of Paulson Bubble Goggles you could buy at Smokey's or Jandebeur's Honda.

Today, some lobbyist group has invented mandatory Liability Insurance, they raised the price of the license tags from $8.50 and have required helmets for some age riders.  

These and added to the fact that the rodes here are by far the worst I have ever seen other than in part of Mexico.  I called emailed and contacted the City about the 23 up to 13" deep pot holes in my street last Summer.  A man came out from the City and expressed it was one of the worst streets he had seen.  Said he would be out the next week to repair it.  Never saw any repair or contact since.  

Two of Tulsa's best Arcades, Fun n Games at 21st and Sheridan and the Fun House at 73rd and Memorial recently closed down.  Victims of the "Best Economy in 50 Years"?  Or was it their location?

Those are a few of the things in Tulsa that have changed that to me makes life here suck today.  I am sure there are more.

[AMP]

Need to remember also that Analog style Gasoline Pumps only went up to 99.9 cents per gallon.  When they designed those analog pumps the engineers never dreamed gasoline would exceed 99.9 cents.  When the Digital pumps were introduced the price of gasoline soared.  It was easy to change the price and that is when price fixing began.  All stations phoned up a hot line to get the latest price for the day, then simply programmed their digital electronic pumps.  They had to increase the pricing of gasoline to offset the enormous cost of removing the analog pumps and replacing them with the digital style.

I believe the inflation of the price of fuel 20 years ago in 1980's was due to one of the fabricated tales that we were running out of oil.  

Remember the 55 MPH speed limit, 68/78 degrees and the other short stories that were invented to raise the oil prices and profits.  

During that same era, Congress even made motorcycle manufactures install 85 mph maximum speedometers. Those were some of the most dangerous vehicles sold as the rider could not determine there speed of anything over 85mph.

[swake]

Fun House didn't close, they moved to the Riverwalk

[Conan71]

How valuable a service do arcades offer when you can buy and play video games in your own home on a dedicated console, your computer, or cell phone as many times as you like without having to have spare pocket change?  For the most part, arcades have gone the way of the T-rex.  They just don't offer a viable service.

The money hasn't dried up.  Money which was once spent at arcades is now spent at big box stores and on-line.  On-line merchants are the "unseen" economy because for the most part, they don't line our local storefronts.  Lack of absurdly high sales tax and reasonable to sometimes free shipping costs has sent a fair amount of my durable goods spending into cyberspace, like many others.

Every brick and mortar small business owner has the opportunity to compete in the international marketplace.  There's nothing to keep them from it other than lack of imagination and desire.  I made a living at it for four years and could have never done it for even four months if I would have relied soley on local trade.  The only thing which kaboshed it was a divorce and a great un-solicited offer to work in the real world again with a lot less stress.

I'm not trying to provoke a fight AMP, I just don't understand your consistent reticence about the economy.  It's still there, it's still good, it's just been consolidated into larger merchants with more buying power than Mom and Pop, and people who weren't afraid to learn how to sell on the internet.

[Artiem]

This topic has meandered a bit but if anyone's interested Caldwell's bond was reduced to $150,000 and he posted today, so he's out. He had to surrender his passport, promise to stay in Oklahoma, promise not to use illegal drugs or alcohol, and must report to the bondsman once per day.

[rwarn17588]

AMP, I hate to say it, but you sound like the Grumpy Old Man that Dana Carvey portrayed on "Saturday Night Live" -- a man who disdains all things modern and looks to the future with fear instead of hope.