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Author Topic: 'Complete Our Streets' Committee Recommendations  (Read 12404 times)
FOTD
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« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2007, 03:58:58 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

quote:
Originally posted by cks511

Is it me or does anyone else take take exception to the paragraph about the river tax? LOL!  I'll knee jerk if I wanna!

http://www.cityoftulsa.org/CityServices/Streets/documents/ReportofFinanceCommittee_1_000.pdf



We have bigger priorities than streets.  Let's do the river first.

[}:)]



LMAO!!!!
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Chicken Little
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2007, 05:45:53 pm »

BTW, Kiah's post preceded a World flash by 40 minutes.  Lurkers.
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blindnil
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2007, 06:29:08 pm »

Actually the World had the breaking news up at 9:30 a.m. this morning ..... and added the link to the report this afternoon.
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Conan71
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2007, 06:42:07 pm »

Okay, now that I got that bit of sarcasm out of the way that I've been saving up since last July, I was kinda surprised at the number at first.  But if we've been about $1bn behind on maintenance and they are looking at expansion as well, $1.6 sounds about right.  It's still a shot in the dark as there's not near enough time to put a finite figure on it.

That's fine though, as long as they have an on-going revenue source identified and not some tax which has to renew every x amount of years, that's all good work.  It's needed.

Now all they need to do is promote Bob Dick as the street Czar so Friendly Bear will have plenty of reason to keep posting here.

[Tongue]
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"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
swake
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2007, 07:17:55 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Okay, now that I got that bit of sarcasm out of the way that I've been saving up since last July, I was kinda surprised at the number at first.  But if we've been about $1bn behind on maintenance and they are looking at expansion as well, $1.6 sounds about right.  It's still a shot in the dark as there's not near enough time to put a finite figure on it.

That's fine though, as long as they have an on-going revenue source identified and not some tax which has to renew every x amount of years, that's all good work.  It's needed.

Now all they need to do is promote Bob Dick as the street Czar so Friendly Bear will have plenty of reason to keep posting here.

[Tongue]




No, you have it all wrong, Randi Miller will be the city street Czar and she will hire Bob Dick's Road Repair and Tamale factory Inc to fix the roads.

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FOTD
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« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2007, 08:01:40 pm »

I hear you can sponsor a street. Now, let's see who is going to sponsor a street and what name will they choose to put on it.

I will start. 61st will be renamed King Davis Avenue between Harvard and Yale. Warren Blvd. will be Yale from I 44 til the new bridge at 121st St.where it becomes Parmale Parkway. These streets were grandfathered in.

Now. Where's Electric Avenue?
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Friendly Bear
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« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2007, 08:07:19 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by swake

quote:
Originally posted by Conan71

Okay, now that I got that bit of sarcasm out of the way that I've been saving up since last July, I was kinda surprised at the number at first.  But if we've been about $1bn behind on maintenance and they are looking at expansion as well, $1.6 sounds about right.  It's still a shot in the dark as there's not near enough time to put a finite figure on it.

That's fine though, as long as they have an on-going revenue source identified and not some tax which has to renew every x amount of years, that's all good work.  It's needed.

Now all they need to do is promote Bob Dick as the street Czar so Friendly Bear will have plenty of reason to keep posting here.

[Tongue]




No, you have it all wrong, Randi Miller will be the city street Czar and she will hire Bob Dick's Road Repair and Tamale factory Inc to fix the roads.





The renters and transient community will be more than happy to approve the Bond Portion of the Tax Increase, since they do not directly see the R.E. tax increase, and depending on rental market competitive pressure from landlords, may NOT get a straight pass-through of the Property Tax increase in the rental agreement at renewal.

I predict the new 1/2 cent Sales Tax increase is D.O.A.  People are tapped out on Sales Taxes.  It is hovering way too close to 10 cents on the dollar.  

And, we've still got 13 more LONG years to pay on the Vision 2025 6/10 Sales Tax Increase.  Uh, what did we get for that?  An Arena with tickets going for the minimum of $49.50 to a concert?

And, WHY, oh WHY reward miserable management, incompetence and failure in sound city infrastructure administration.  Fire Chas. Hardt-less and his incompetent cronies, and hire some real civil engineers.

By the time they stage this for a tax vote next year, the economy will be heading into the tank, anyway.

Yes, you guessed it:  A NO vote here.





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Wilbur
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« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2007, 08:13:20 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by FOTD

And who is to oversee this mammoth job?

Page one on recommendations should read, "while we recognize the effort put forth during the last 23 years, the current head of Public Works needs to spend his remaining daze in the pasture...."

I thought it would take over 1.5 billion. But I think it will cost much more over a longer period.

Frankly, I can't look at the report. It's too hard to understand how we got from there to here. That vision thing 2025 failed to reason why it is we had America's Most Beautiful City.

Step up and make that 3rd cent permanent. And pass the bond. And make certain this Transportation Authority is not loaded with conflicts of interest.

George Bush has put every American citizen in debt to the tune of $30,000 (average) by war. Just add another $4,000. What good are tax cuts for the wealthy if this is the fallout?


The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. ~Bertrand Russell



I just knew George Bush was behind all this.  Thanks for pointing that out!
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FOTD
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« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2007, 08:26:12 pm »

The fleecing of America from the top down.....
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Wilbur
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« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2007, 08:57:10 pm »

An interesting report, although, another recommendation for a raise in taxes has this republican saying, "here we go again."  We are already at historically high sales taxes and, because we keep finding other things to spend money on, we need another tax to fund the basics, which were the original purposes of the tax in the first place.

What I found the most interesting, although none of the committees had the courage to come right out and say it (some committees were more brave then others) was the past practice of allowing political influence dictate what street got repaired.  Having known someone who worked for Public Works and oversaw street repair projects, his constant comments/complaints about streets being repaired/resurfaced that didn't need it but because a city councilor was doing a favor for a constituent, was a huge waste of money.  Driving on our city's streets for a living and seeing what streets get resurfaced for no reason when other streets are in dire need also reeks of political influence.  I will agree with the suggestion (made several times throughout the report) that a committee be formed that oversees what projects get done, thus removing (for the most part, I hope) streets getting repaved for a buddy.

The recommendation to charge a user fee to drive on certain streets because someone might live outside of Tulsa is just plain dumb.  I'm envisioning stopping at every city/county limit to pay a toll because I don't live there.  Give me a break.

One of the recommended ways to increase revenue was in naming right for streets.  I can't wait to drive on Recycle Michael Way (unless he charges me a toll)!
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RecycleMichael
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« Reply #25 on: December 04, 2007, 09:04:44 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur
I can't wait to drive on Recycle Michael Way (unless he charges me a toll)!


I like the idea of my own road. Then I can drive in both lanes at once. When somebody yells out "Do you think you own the road?", I can say, "Why, yes, I do!"

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Chicken Little
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« Reply #26 on: December 04, 2007, 10:06:36 pm »

quote:
Originally posted by Wilbur

An interesting report, although, another recommendation for a raise in taxes has this republican saying, "here we go again."  We are already at historically high sales taxes and, because we keep finding other things to spend money on, we need another tax to fund the basics, which were the original purposes of the tax in the first place.
Of what tax?  The third penny?  The city pretty much always spent that on infrastructure, roads and stormwater protection, mainly.  Sewers were a mistake, because they could have been paid for through revenue, I'll grant you that.  But the non-infrastructure exceptions, ironically since they are coming from you, are rolling stock, helos (twirling stock), and guns for the PD.

I think the proper expression is, "Here we never went".  We've never invested in maintenance like we should.  And that's why our roads are a D, heading rapidly towards a failing grade.  

If you want to be sad, be sad about the fact that we didn't reinvest in our infrastructure 10 years ago, before China and India blew the roof off the cost of construction materials.

 
quote:
Overall, materials and components for construction have risen an average of 4.4% per year from 1970-2006, but almost twice that level at 7.5% per year from 2003-2006. Highway construction materials and labor have not escaped the price increases. Between 1998 and 2005, the cost of materials for highway and street contractors increased 35.1% compared to a 19.6% increase in the Consumer Price Index (CPI)1.


http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/partners/erp/cap_cost_infla_forecasting10-06.pdf
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Double A
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WWW
« Reply #27 on: December 04, 2007, 11:20:02 pm »

At first glance, it sounds good except for one glaring thing:

Oil and Gas Drilling in the City. Once again, a bit unorthodox but we believe that the  City Government needs to consider those “out of the boxâ€? opportunities to determine new  sources of revenue that are not related to increased or new taxes. One such opportunity  might be to allow leasing of the City’s mineral rights for the exploration and production  of oil and natural gas. Although members of the oil and natural gas industry will say that  commercially productive amounts of oil and natural gas in the Tulsa area will probably  not make a huge contribution to the city’s needs, one never knows.     New technologies and energy demands are providing new methods of making money  in the energy industry. There are certainly drilling and production methods that are  extremely safe for the environment and appropriate parameters can be required and  enforced. There is no need for additional employees to monitor this activity – oversight  can be acquired either on a contract basis or donated by appropriate private entities.     One simply has to look at the Dallas - Ft. Worth Airport for an example of significant  money paid for drilling opportunities. The City of Oklahoma City has long encouraged  drilling within its city limits. In fact, its airport has been the recipient of substantial  royalty revenues for a long time. There is no reason that we should close the door on this  opportunity.

That's a deal breaker for me. This has no business being on a vote to fund roads. This should be a completely separate issue. Cason Carter started pushing drilling at the airport in Council Committee meetings recently. Guess he couldn't wait for the formal announcement. This what happens when foxes guard the hen house. Their own hunger and self interest is their main motivation. Besides, fossil fuels are so passe, I thought we are: Tulsa A New Kind of Energy.[Wink]
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WWW
« Reply #28 on: December 04, 2007, 11:31:26 pm »

A deal breaker Double A???

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bathwater...
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Friendly Bear
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« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2007, 08:05:06 am »

quote:
Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:
Originally posted by Friendly Bear
How about a little more analysis from someone who knows about street repair and maintenance that two mid-town Elitist Trust Fund babies who never worked an honest day's work in their entire lives?


Ask, and you shall receive:

Contracting Committee
ART COUCH
SHARON KING DAVIS
GENE HARRIS
BOB KUHN
BILL JONES
TOM SNYDER

Finance Committee
Mr. Jack O’Brien
Mr. Steve Mitchell
Mr. John Weidman
Mr. Kell Kelly
Mr. Howard Barnett
Mr. Ron Bussert
Mr. Dewey Bartlett.

Smart Urban Design Committee
Keith Franklin
John Lotti
Art Justis
Derek Gates
Jerry Lasker
Lisa Frankenberger

Surely you can't hate everybody on this list, right?  Oh wait, we're talking about Friendly Bear.[Wink]
quote:
Do NOT just throw more money at the problem.
They have lots of recommendations about contracting, urban design, financing, preventive maintenance.  How 'bout you "Do NOT" start talking out your hindquarters until you've done at least a modicum of homework.  Oh wait, we're talking about Friendly Bear.[Wink]
 
quote:
The local road construction cartel, who are connected up the Wazoo with the local ruling power Oligarchy, and who happily share a tiny portion of their profits to fund the passage of every new and renewed local Tax, are being givin a free pass on SHODDY road construction and repairs that literally fall apart almost as soon as the yellow striping has dried.

That is the root cause of the problem, not Under-Spending.

Oh, and fire Charles Hardt and his cronies today, while we're at it.
Attaboy, FB.  Blame the "oligarchy", that'll fix the streets.   And fire a couple of city employees, that'll produce $1.6 billion for sure!



Where did you get the idea that I hate ANYONE on the list?

I just don't see what special knowledge the leadership brings to the committee.  A couple of privileged Mid-town trust fund babies who've never done an honest day's work in their life?

Pshaw.
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