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February 08, 2023, 06:31:48 pm
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Author Topic: PAC Parking Lot Development  (Read 14040 times)
Red Arrow
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« Reply #75 on: October 27, 2022, 01:22:33 pm »

... but at the rate of rental growth in Tulsa and the housing market/prices are still rising at some of the fastest rates in the country...

Maybe the ever increasing housing prices will stimulate regional rail transit since no one will be able to afford living in Tulsa.  I am think of 'burbs beyond BA, Owasso, Bixby and Jenks because they are getting expensive too.  Not so sure about Sapulpa and Sand Springs.  We could turn Tulsa into another Los Angeles.  2 hour commutes just to afford a place to live.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEPTA_Regional_Rail#/media/File:Philadelphia_Transit_and_Commuter_Rail_System.png

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEPTA_Regional_Rail

« Last Edit: October 27, 2022, 01:30:45 pm by Red Arrow » Logged

 
ComeOnBenjals
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« Reply #76 on: December 07, 2022, 09:06:57 am »

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/pac-trust-declines-to-extend-deadline-for-developers-proposed-mixed-use-project/article_0adbe69c-65b0-11ed-baf5-8bd0ce9a7920.html

PAC Trust declines to extend deadline for developer's proposed mixed-use project

Forgot to post this a couple weeks back. Not a great sign, this would be a huge bummer.
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #77 on: December 07, 2022, 11:33:56 am »

It's not dead yet... This does show that they are feeling some pressure though, otherwise they wouldn't have asked for an extension. Who knows what will happen, but I'm not optimistic of what will happen if they end up passing. I fear the trust has waited so long that they will just take what they can get, and that will be some crappy low-effort development.
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #78 on: December 07, 2022, 12:38:55 pm »

It's not dead yet... This does show that they are feeling some pressure though, otherwise they wouldn't have asked for an extension. Who knows what will happen, but I'm not optimistic of what will happen if they end up passing. I fear the trust has waited so long that they will just take what they can get, and that will be some crappy low-effort development.

I like the project, but this is just an example of developers taking advantage of a situation. There's no reason why they haven't been able to move forward on this they've just prioritized other projects where they've had more personal money on the line. They've been able to sit with the site under control with not much $$ in the game unlike a lot of typical deals and so they've just been trying to kick it down the road. It's not that this group is a bad developer or anything or it's a bad project they've just not seen this as much of a priority. The PAC trust should have done this a LONG time ago to get them to move on the site.

It would be a bummer if they walk away from the project but it could happen. This is a prime site and someone will do something with it, but it's time to stop allowing the developers to delay it, delay it, delay it.

They need to at least require the developer to show the board what they are doing to move the project forward if they need extensions from now on - like if they're waiting on the architects to finish design/construction docs make them submit something, etc. No reason to let them slide, if they don't see this site as a priority someone else will.
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Tulsan
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« Reply #79 on: December 07, 2022, 02:04:06 pm »

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/pac-trust-declines-to-extend-deadline-for-developers-proposed-mixed-use-project/article_0adbe69c-65b0-11ed-baf5-8bd0ce9a7920.html

PAC Trust declines to extend deadline for developer's proposed mixed-use project

Forgot to post this a couple weeks back. Not a great sign, this would be a huge bummer.

The PAC trust board had given up on the developers and intended to go in a different direction - intention was to build a new theater on the parcel. However, I was told there is a renewed push to finalize the sale and one more extension is likely next month based on request from the Mayor. If it’s not done by the end of the extended period, however, it’s probably dead.
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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #80 on: December 09, 2022, 12:27:54 am »

Looks like the board is granting some additional extensions.

Oasis is the planned grocer now instead of Homeland. I believe Oasis got somewhere around $30 million in ARPA funds to expand to multiple new sites in 'food deserts' statewide
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #81 on: December 09, 2022, 10:10:49 am »

That's good... keep the pressure up to get started while also being reasonable. Holding out a lot of hope for this one.

Oasis looks decent, and hopefully having a store here will help their bottom line and better fund their efforts in other areas. I have a feeling that despite being a "food desert", downtown will be an extremely lucrative location when it opens.
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DowntownDan
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« Reply #82 on: December 09, 2022, 10:12:48 am »

That would be terrific! Oasis is a great market and would thrive downtown I think, especially if people know their broader mission.
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BKDotCom
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« Reply #83 on: December 09, 2022, 11:10:27 am »

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/pac-board-extends-deadline-for-development-after-oasis-signs-on/article_153e6722-7749-11ed-b84b-0f16d2ec5f88.html#tracking-source=home-top-story

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PAC board extends deadline for development after Oasis signs on
The Tulsa Performing Arts Center Trust on Thursday gave a little and got a lot.

After a nearly two-hour board meeting, trustees voted to give an Indianapolis-based developer six more months to get a proposed mixed-use development across the street from the PAC off the ground.

That was the give. What the PAC board received was word from Ryan Cronk, vice president of development for Flaherty & Collins Properties, that he had signed a lease with Oasis Fresh Market to operate a 20,000-square-foot supermarket as part of the $108 million development.
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SXSW
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« Reply #84 on: December 09, 2022, 11:52:40 am »

Looks like a few mostly minor changes to the renderings.  Glad to still see the apartment tower, I was worried it would get VE'd to a 5 story wood-frame over podium.

I know originally there was parking below the grocery store allowing customers to park underneath and take an escalator into the store.  Not sure if that's still the plan or not but it makes sense, in addition to have the main pedestrian entrance front 3rd Street.  The rendering doesn't show the 6-8 ft of fall between 3rd and 2nd Streets.

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LandArchPoke
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« Reply #85 on: December 09, 2022, 12:41:12 pm »

Looks like a few mostly minor changes to the renderings.  Glad to still see the apartment tower, I was worried it would get VE'd to a 5 story wood-frame over podium.

I know originally there was parking below the grocery store allowing customers to park underneath and take an escalator into the store.  Not sure if that's still the plan or not but it makes sense, in addition to have the main pedestrian entrance front 3rd Street.  The rendering doesn't show the 6-8 ft of fall between 3rd and 2nd Streets.


I believe the parking garage set up, etc. is part of the requirements of sale from the PAC board. It wouldn't be feasible to do the project if they went down to 5 stories because you would probably barely get 100 units on the site that way. Scale wise that's not sufficient for most bigger multifamily developers, for operations you really need in the 200 - 250 units in each project to make them operate well.

It doesn't look like that rendering is meant to be true to what is built because there's not even a door/entry into Oasis. They did put a truck coming out of the building a bit further down between Oasis and the residential building so it appears they are still signaling that the parking would be under the store. Which given the elevation difference makes the most sense to do that way versus above the store or a podium in the apartment tower.

This development group at least has a lot of experience in the grocer anchor urban project so they know what has to be done parking, etc. wise for a grocer to succeed. They won't do a podium design for parking, they're going to want it to be under the store with very easy in/out access for shoppers.
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SXSW
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« Reply #86 on: January 05, 2023, 08:23:04 am »

Now that WPX is finished, Santa Fe Square office is nearly finished and the Santa Fe residential well underway is The Annex the biggest project currently on the boards downtown?  Hopefully 2023 is the year we see this break ground, it would be amazing to see a full block developed and another tower crane up, not to mention adding a long-awaited grocery store and 260 new apartments and a hotel. 
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #87 on: January 05, 2023, 09:57:09 am »

It's definitely the biggest, followed by the proposed Hotel/Garage/Apartments across from Hunt Club in the arts district. That is set to kick off in August. The PAC lot has an extension until May for them to purchase, so if it goes through, we will once again have at least two "towers" going up downtown with all the cranes and whatnot. With Flaherty & Collins making the recent announcement of the new grocery partner for the site, I assume that means things are still progressing, so I'm optimistic.

In other news related to the PAC, the city council just visited to discuss its needs. https://ktul.com/news/local/tulsa-city-council-tours-citys-performing-arts-center-to-identify-needs

The building is not fully ADA compliant, among other issues, and needs $25 million just for ADA access upgrades. Whatever happened to the big proposal to really upgrade the facility and add a glass façade? I assume part of that was contingent on the sale.
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SXSW
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« Reply #88 on: January 05, 2023, 01:21:05 pm »

In other news related to the PAC, the city council just visited to discuss its needs. https://ktul.com/news/local/tulsa-city-council-tours-citys-performing-arts-center-to-identify-needs

The building is not fully ADA compliant, among other issues, and needs $25 million just for ADA access upgrades. Whatever happened to the big proposal to really upgrade the facility and add a glass façade? I assume part of that was contingent on the sale.

My understanding is that is just for ADA compliance upgrades and deferred maintenance over the next 1-3 years.  The plan is still to massively upgrade the PAC and build a new theater, possibly across 3rd St, after the sale of the Annex parking lot and once half the funds are raised privately.  This should be Tulsa's next BOK Center, a major public improvement project that will have long-lasting effects.

From a June 2022 TW article:
Quote
“We need to start having these conversations,” Frie said. “Our goal is to raise half of the money needed for a new performing arts center privately. We have a development team in place, and we’ve had some positive response from major donors.”

A new performing arts center is estimated to cost upwards of $300 million. Frie said one solution to creating a new center would be first to construct a medium-sized, 1,200- to 1,400-seat theater at a new location. The current PAC could continue operations until this phase of the project was completed.

“A medium-sized theater is something the major companies have wanted for years,” Frie said. “And it would allow us to keep operating during construction, whereas a full remodel of the present facility would require us to shut down for months, even years.

https://tulsaworld.com/entertainment/arts-and-theatre/tulsa-pac-we-need-to-start-having-these-conversations-on-venues-future-ceo-says/article_ea51b820-e102-11ec-b17c-0bd1743aa7db.html
« Last Edit: January 05, 2023, 01:22:46 pm by SXSW » Logged

 
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