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December 05, 2019, 10:45:46 am
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Author Topic: Jenks Outlet Mall starting?  (Read 7392 times)
In_Tulsa
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« Reply #60 on: June 14, 2019, 02:04:41 pm »

 I think itís a great development with a great design and a great location. So I guess not everybody is upset about this!
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #61 on: June 14, 2019, 02:18:00 pm »

"Seemingly unaffected"?  The usual weather patterns we are having now are not what they were when I was a kid.  Even the official planting zones have changed. We were I believe a 6, but are now in zone 7, and I will likely see in my lifetime us be in zone 8.  Which is fine with me for it is a bother bringing in my tropical plants each year (though interestingly enough I got lazy and dug up only about half my elephant ears last year and surprise surprise all the ones I left in the ground are going gangbusters this year).  Whether we end up being in a more tropical environment or desert is yet to be seen but some of the old climate projections I saw favored the tropical version.

The nasty trick on us being in Oklahoma is that with the weakening jet streams that blob of super cold air over the north pole may on occasion "escape" and drift our way. So until a "new normal" settles in (who knows when or what that will be) we will be in for some occasional extreme events.

To shift the conversation back to the Outlet Mall, I think it would be lovely with some palm trees  Cool 

I completely agree that climate has and will continue to change here, just that we aren't in the areas under extreme threat that are projected to create "climate refugees" (such as large parts of the middle east and Africa; and currently, India which is largely under extreme drought since 2015). And most people here will probably just say it's all cyclic and just accept the variations as Oklahoma weather. It does "seem" like weather has changed here a lot, and we have seen record extremes over and over various times, but older folks will claim nothing is like the Great Depression (even though the last big drought we had was actually worse) and recurrent flooding that used to be common (even though we've added tons of new retention ponds).

Maybe the roughest impact of climate change will be the areas that won't get enough water. Oklahoma doesn't appear to be in those high-risk zones, although the drought earlier this decade was pretty bad, we were still head and shoulders better than most of the Southwest and far better than large parts of India/Middle-East/Africa when it comes to water scarcity. Not only is drought a normal part of the natural cycles there, it is now even further exacerbated by high population, over-farming and climate change.
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #62 on: June 14, 2019, 02:21:50 pm »

Respectfully, this outlet mall is emblematic of the industry. While it is true that this outlet mall is not to blame for all the issues raised in this thread, this one is in our community. We had no voice in the conversation about building the last ugly, environmentally unsound, wasteful and short-sighted mall project because that one was on the other side of the country. Moreover, ignoring the global context because this project or that is so small in the grand scheme is exactly how we will fail to "turn the ship." As a global society we have to recognize and commit ourselves to individual actions that contribute to the solution. These will all be small steps but it is only collective action that will put us on a sustainable course.

Well said. I am willing to "die on this hill" when it comes to at least opposing things like 71st and Riverside shopping center and this one. Tulsa may be so far gone in walkability, but there's a few areas with reason to have hope. The river is something we should all fight for. I hope the environment becomes something we are all mindful of and consider day-to-day, especially when supporting companies and development. This is late-stage globalization. The data is out there an it's bad. Time for changing how we build and live.
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« Reply #63 on: June 14, 2019, 05:20:11 pm »

To shift the conversation back to the Outlet Mall, I think it would be lovely with some palm trees  Cool 

I like palm trees, preferably with coconuts.
Smiley

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« Reply #64 on: June 14, 2019, 05:23:08 pm »

Respectfully, this outlet mall is emblematic of the industry. While it is true that this outlet mall is not to blame for all the issues raised in this thread, this one is in our community. We had no voice in the conversation about building the last ugly, environmentally unsound, wasteful and short-sighted mall project because that one was on the other side of the country. Moreover, ignoring the global context because this project or that is so small in the grand scheme is exactly how we will fail to "turn the ship." As a global society we have to recognize and commit ourselves to individual actions that contribute to the solution. These will all be small steps but it is only collective action that will put us on a sustainable course.

Unfortunately, everything we can possibly do will not overcome the damage by places like China.

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« Reply #65 on: June 16, 2019, 02:22:56 pm »

Well said. I am willing to "die on this hill" when it comes to at least opposing things like 71st and Riverside shopping center and this one. Tulsa may be so far gone in walkability, but there's a few areas with reason to have hope. The river is something we should all fight for. I hope the environment becomes something we are all mindful of and consider day-to-day, especially when supporting companies and development. This is late-stage globalization. The data is out there an it's bad. Time for changing how we build and live.

I agree on the river, though some damage has already been done around 96th & Riverside.  Jenks has done the best job of fronting developments along the river but the area lacks cohesion.  I don't know how many people actually walk from the aquarium to Riverwalk Crossing even though it's not far.  The river trail doesn't connect these two areas. 

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rebound
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« Reply #66 on: June 17, 2019, 02:01:17 pm »

I don't know how many people actually walk from the aquarium to Riverwalk Crossing even though it's not far.  The river trail doesn't connect these two areas. 

The walk is easy.  Maybe 15 minutes, tops.  And the trail does basically run all the way between the two.  (Not the riverside trail, but the "aquarium trail" that runs along the drive.)  It would be nice if/when they extend the riverside trail all the way down behind the holiday Inn, but even then I think that a lot of people would drive it rather than walk, but that's because of the people, not ease of access.
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Conan71
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« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2019, 01:44:53 pm »

The topic seems to be straying a bit but I will leave this here:

I will always be proud that we got Simon to take this lump of crap somewhere other than the western flank of Turkey Mountain Urban Wilderness area and I'm proud of my role in ensuring this happened.  As a result of this near-miss Tulsa got approximately another 140 acres of urban wilderness (oxymoron much?) between this 60 acre parcel and more land south of 61st Street which was quietly acquired with far less fanfare than the Vision 2025 extension purchase of the land Simon was trying to develop.  This whole episode woke up some of the most influential people in the Tulsa community as to how important urban green space is over planting new commerce sites every square mile.

I hope it is a good revenue generator for Jenks and they don't get fleeced on tax abatements later in the lifespan of this property.  I did much research on Simon's business practices and while not unsavory per se, they are less than ideal for municipal government and don't seem to really provide the net tax revenue lift everyone wants to believe they will bring.  

This location is more intuitive to get to than the previously intended one and may well prove to be a travel destination which does add to the tax base when people shop there from Okmulgee, Bartlesville, etc.  I have no feel though for how many people really travel to an outlet mall from 1-2 hours away rather than just buying online these days.  That would be akin to me driving two hours to Santa Fe or Pueblo, Co. to buy a pair of jeans, shoes, or package of underwear- just not worth my time.  I now live in a very rural area and my first impulse is to always go online for something we cannot find in the village or the next largest town 40 miles away.
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ELG4America
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« Reply #68 on: June 20, 2019, 09:46:57 am »

Unfortunately, everything we can possibly do will not overcome the damage by places like China.



Bad actions of another are not a good justification for bad actions on one's own part. Moreover, the Chinese government is aggressively pursuing a more environmentally sound development policy; meanwhile, we're still trying to decide if we believe in science.
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ELG4America
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« Reply #69 on: June 20, 2019, 09:50:23 am »

The walk is easy.  Maybe 15 minutes, tops.  And the trail does basically run all the way between the two.  (Not the riverside trail, but the "aquarium trail" that runs along the drive.)  It would be nice if/when they extend the riverside trail all the way down behind the holiday Inn, but even then I think that a lot of people would drive it rather than walk, but that's because of the people, not ease of access.

Waterfront grill is a good river-interacting development but the Holiday Inn and Aquarium itself are both dead boxes from the river side. Still, continuing the trail from River Walk down to the Outlet Mall would be a step in the right direction.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2019, 11:45:54 am by ELG4America » Logged
heironymouspasparagus
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« Reply #70 on: August 06, 2019, 03:49:32 pm »

Bad actions of another are not a good justification for bad actions on one's own part. Moreover, the Chinese government is aggressively pursuing a more environmentally sound development policy; meanwhile, we're still trying to decide if we believe in science.


So True!!

Their bad actions will be much shorter in duration than ours have been!   They recognize the problems of building an industrialized society basically from scratch, in just a very short time, and while making the compromises needed, they are also looking to the future and working hard to move on past these early beginnings.  In just a very few years they will be far beyond us in environmentally sound policy.

While we continue to ignore science.  That's just one of the reasons they will pass us as the world's largest economy next year.

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« Reply #71 on: August 06, 2019, 05:12:33 pm »


So True!!

Their bad actions will be much shorter in duration than ours have been!   They recognize the problems of building an industrialized society basically from scratch, in just a very short time, and while making the compromises needed, they are also looking to the future and working hard to move on past these early beginnings.  In just a very few years they will be far beyond us in environmentally sound policy.

While we continue to ignore science.  That's just one of the reasons they will pass us as the world's largest economy next year.



Simon has completed the purchase of the land for the mall, Jenks has approved the plat and TIF for the project.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/coming-to-fruition-developer-purchases-land-eyed-for-mall-in/article_a4b94496-a196-5761-a32d-20a339d722a1.html
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TulsaGoldenHurriCAN
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« Reply #72 on: August 07, 2019, 02:09:51 pm »

Simon has completed the purchase of the land for the mall, Jenks has approved the plat and TIF for the project.

https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/coming-to-fruition-developer-purchases-land-eyed-for-mall-in/article_a4b94496-a196-5761-a32d-20a339d722a1.html

Does anyone think this is still potentially a bluff by Simon?
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swake
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« Reply #73 on: August 23, 2019, 10:52:02 am »

According to a new Jenks newspaper, utility work is due to be completed before the end of the year and actual construction starts in January. The center is now 80% leased by Simon.

And in driving by as of Monday, utility relocation has started at the site.
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shavethewhales
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« Reply #74 on: August 23, 2019, 10:56:13 am »

Great news if true. I had already resigned to the assumption that this would fall through again and they would just keep changing the year on the sign.

What I'd really love is if they can get some amusements added onto this complex. Something like the stand-alone rides at Branson Landing, or the little areas of amusement rides such as at Kemah Boardwalk or Old Town in Orlando.
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